Category: Pharmacy Entrepreneur

Tim Ulbrich interviews Emmanuel Ayanjoke, PharmD, on his journey to opening an independent pharmacy in Avondale, tackling challenges with vision, risk-taking, and community care.

This episode is brought to you by First Horizon.

Episode Summary

In this inspiring episode, Tim Ulbrich interviews Emmanuel Ayanjoke, R.Ph, PharmD, MBA, a third-generation pharmacist with a passion for community care. Emmanuel shares his remarkable journey to opening an independent pharmacy in Avondale, Cincinnati. Driven by a desire to make a difference, he pursued a pain management and palliative care fellowship, gaining invaluable entrepreneurial experience along the way. Through the support of Project Oasis, a McKesson initiative aimed at addressing pharmacy deserts, Emmanuel was able to turn his vision into reality.

Despite facing significant financial challenges, including high student loan debt, Emmanuel underscores the importance of calculated risk-taking and the power of strong relationships. Emmanuel offers insights into the future of independent pharmacy and how he has strategically aligned his personal and business financial plans to achieve his goals. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving landscape of independent pharmacy and the bold steps required to succeed.

About Today’s Guest

Dr. Emmanuel (Manny) Ayanjoke, R.Ph, PharmD, MBA is the proud owner of Altev Community Pharmacy in Cincinnati, Ohio. A graduate of University of Toledo College of Pharmacy, Dr. Manny has spent over 5 years serving various communities as a dedicated pharmacist. Before opening Altev, he worked at Ziks Family Pharmacy, honing his skills, and understanding the vital role of pharmacists in community health. His work as a clinical pharmacist at Ziks had notable success and he was featured as a keynote panelist at the American Pharmacist Association (APhA) 2022 conference. Alongside his clinical role at ZIKS Family Pharmacy, Dr Manny completed a fellowship in pain management and palliative care fellow at Cedarville University where he engaged in teaching, research, patient care, as well as creation of innovative ways to advance pharmacy practice.

Key Points from the Episode

• Opening Remarks and Sponsor Introduction [0:00]
• Emmanuel’s Career Path and Family Background [2:28]
• Pursuing a Fellowship and Entrepreneurial Vision [4:58]
• The Decision to Open a Pharmacy [10:45]
• Challenges and Support in Opening a Pharmacy [19:51]
• Intersection of Personal and Business Finances [27:30]

Episode Highlights

“I wanted to pursue something that allowed me to be an entrepreneur in some way; I knew it had to be something that would leverage my school as a pharmacist, and with my experience, I was like, well, in every other you know, area of pharmacy practice, they’re already really the people that are dominating. I want to sort of create my own niche.” – Dr. Emmanuel Ayanjoke [5:53]

“I wanted to sort of carve out a niche for myself in pain management, to be able to be an entrepreneur, be a consultant, pharmacist, and do all these things until the point that I was able to actually stop my pharmacy so it was still in line with my overall vision of being an entrepreneur and being able to self, direct, direct my destiny, and not, you know, be beholden to a paycheck.” – Dr. Emmanuel Ayanjoke [6:24]

“I think your biggest asset to success, for anyone, any successful person, is people.” – Dr. Emmanuel Ayanjoke [20:43]

“I’m not saying this because I’m anywhere yet, but I’m saying this because I’ve seen other people, and I learned from a lot of people, but what I found is people that tend to be successful often go against the grain, go against what the crowd typically does.” – Dr. Emmanuel Ayanjoke [23:17]

“My vision and the way I see things and my general approach to life and business is sort of like planting trees, right? And what I mean by that is, yes, you might not have the perfect nutrients for a tree that’s several feet high, but you can at least plant something for now. And that that is kind of has been my approach to everything. You might not feel like you have the financial capacity to do certain things, it’s still important to plant the tree. – Dr. Emmanuel Ayanjoke [28:37]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• Emmanuel Ayanjoke LinkedIn
• Altev Community Pharmacy
• Project Oasis
• NCPA Survey 
• The Dip by Seth Godin
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter
• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• YFP on Instagram
• YFP Facebook Group
• Your Financial Pharmacist
• YFP Disclaimer
• YFP Newsletter

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich  00:00

Hey everybody. Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week, I sit down with Emmanuel Ayanjoke to discuss his decision to open an independent pharmacy as a new practitioner, his perspective on the future of independent pharmacy and the intersection of his personal and business financial plans. Let’s hear a note from today’s sponsor, First Horizon, and then we’ll jump into my interview with the Emmanuel. 

Tim Ulbrich  00:29

Does saving 20% for a down payment on a home feel like an uphill battle? It’s no secret that pharmacists have a lot of competing financial priorities, including high student loan debt, meaning that saving 20% for a down payment on a home may take years. For several years now, we’ve been partnering with First Horizon, who offers a professional home loan option, AKA a doctor or pharmacist loan that requires a 3% down payment for a single family home or townhome for first time homebuyers, has no PMI and offers a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on home loans up to $766,550 in most areas. The pharmacist home loan is available in all states except Alaska and Hawaii, and can be used to purchase condos as well, however, rates may be higher and a condo review has to be completed. While I’ve personally worked with First Horizon before and had a great experience with Tony and his team, don’t just take it from me. Here’s what Molly from New Berlin, Wisconsin, had to say about her experience with First Horizon: “The communication and always being available to talk over the phone was great for us. It also made an impact getting an initial overview and education on the process from Gail. Being able to submit everything electronically made it more efficient.” So if you want to check out the requirements for pharmacists Home Loan from First Horizon and to start the pre-approval process, visit yourfinancialpharmacist./home-loan.harmacist.com/home-loan.

Tim Ulbrich  01:58

Emmanuel, welcome to the show.

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  02:00

Thank you, Tim. I’m delighted to be here today.

Tim Ulbrich  02:03

Me as well, and I’m looking forward to the opportunity to talk to you about your experiences opening up in independent pharmacy. We crossed paths through the Ohio pharmacy circles over the past few years, and once you announced the grand opening of your store, Altev Community Pharmacy and the Avondale, Cincinnati area, I reached out to invite you on the show so we can learn more about your entrepreneurial journey. And before we get into that, let’s talk about your career path into pharmacy, Emmanuel, what led you into the profession and to the University of Toledo, where you completed your PharmD in 2020 

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  02:38

Absolutely. So I, you know, I’m Nigerian. Grew up in Nigeria. That was born in Nigeria, till I was I grew up left Niger when I was about 15 years old, and I was fortunate enough to grow up in the family of that pharmacy is a thing. So my dad was a pharmacist and a pharmacy owner, and his dad was a pharmacy, pharmacy owner. Now, back then, they refer to them as chemists, because this was way back then in the days, but they were, you know, I come from a long line of pharmacists, and I would never forget when I was about seven years old, because I think that’s the age where everyone kind of starts to pick up on things. And, you know, observe our parents doing different things, and I remember so vividly, so many moments where patients will just come in. And, you know, one of the things I always like to say is pharmacists. Pharmacy in Niger is very different than here. Pharmacy is much more front line of healthcare. You went to the pharmacy first before going to the doctor, they actually the pharmacist referred you to the doctor in things that were too complex to be handled in outpatient. So I grew up in that setting, seeing my dad as a pharmacist, business owner, taking care of his family, but also taking care of the community. And people just come into the pharmacy asking questions, having their needs, health needs met. You know, it was a different way to impact people’s lives, and that resonated with me very deeply. I, you know, grew up in that environment that I knew I wanted to direct my own destiny and own a business. And what dawned on me over the years is what’s more important in owning businesses, doing something that impacts lives. So put it short, I’ve always been in pharmacy. I grew up in a pharmacy, and I didn’t see myself doing anything else, because that was what was just in front of me. 

Tim Ulbrich  04:33

So third generation chemist, then, right?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  04:36

 Yes.

Tim Ulbrich  04:38

So after you finished your PharmD at the University of Toledo, you went on to pursue a pain management and palliative care fellowship. And some might be looking at that and saying, All right, so you grew up in a pharmacy environment, independent ownership, owning your own business. And this seems like a different type of an opportunity. So tell us more about the pursuit of that fellowship, and what were some of the experiences and things that you took away from that?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  05:04

Yeah, so the reason why I went to pursue a fellowship was at the time when I was in Toledo, I was an intern, and I because I knew I wanted to own a pharmacy at some point, I decided to only work in an independent pharmacy, and that so me served me really great, because I started to experience first clients, what it took to run a business, run a pharmacy business in the United States. And I was fortunate enough to have a great pharmacy owner who showed me so many things. But you know, unfortunately, what that did to me was kind of give me a very bad perspective of how pharmacy should what pharmacy is. And I thought that, well, pharmacy is what I want to end up doing, but I don’t think it’s the time. I don’t think it’s the right time. But knowing that I wanted to pursue something that allowed me to be an entrepreneur in some way, I knew it had to be something that would leverage my school as a pharmacist, and, you know, with my experience, I was like, well, in every other you know, area of pharmacy practice, they’re already really the people that are, you know, dominating. I want to sort of create my own niche. I don’t like to follow the general trends and what people do, you know, go to AMK and those things, and those things are great, and I do a lot of that, and I did a lot of that in my career so far, but I wanted to sort of carve out a niche for myself in pain management, to be able to be an entrepreneur, be a consultant, pharmacist, and do all these things until the point that I was able to actually stop my pharmacy so it was still In line with my overall vision of being an entrepreneur and being able to self, direct, direct my destiny, and not, you know, be beholden to a paycheck. I just that idea just just doesn’t sit well with me, so that, that was why I pursued the fellowship, and was a great, great experience for me. 

Tim Ulbrich  06:58

So what I hear there, Emmanuel, is there was this throughline of entrepreneurship that’s always been there, not surprising, right? Multiple generations in the family. And so you had this thought pretty early on, of, hey, I would like to own my own business, own pharmacy. Had some real life experience in independent pharmacy working for someone else, which I always recommend people that are thinking about, Hey, open up a business, get that experience, kind of see it firsthand, see what you like, what you don’t like. But through that experience, it sounds like you you butted up against the real challenges that we’ll talk about, you know, in the profession, and maybe that tampered down some of that interest, at least temporarily. And so you pursued this other pathway all the while, this through line of entrepreneurship, was there of, hey, I’m not sure exactly what it’s going to look like or when it’s going to happen, but I want to continue to pursue opportunities that are going to put me in a position in the future when I’m ready. Is that right?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  07:49

Yep, that’s perfectly that’s that’s accurate. That’s exactly what happened. 

Tim Ulbrich  07:53

One thing you said I’d love to hear more from you on is, you know, I knew that I didn’t want to be beholden to a paycheck. I sensed some emotion in that statement of just, you know, I know myself, right? I know that that’s not for me. Tell us more about you know that realization and why that was important to you?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  08:12

Yeah, I think that realization has always been there in the one thing I didn’t also say was, my mom was also an entrepreneur. She had her home business, and she, you know, used to run convenience stores and couple gas stations back at home then. So I knew for a fact that, you know, that that’s just what I wanted to do. But, but one of the things that I’ve also learned about the system of America is the reality that, unfortunately, those who you know pay for everything is the middle class. And when I say middle class is those you know who are professionals, and you know, you’re hit with so much taxes and so many there’s so many downsides to being a W2 earner. So I realized that real, that part, but also the quite honest reality is that you’re never paid what you’re worth as a W2 earner. That’s just a reality down. There’s no two ways around it. If you were paid your worth, no one would create companies, right? 

Tim Ulbrich  09:15

It wouldn’t make any sense.    

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  09:17

Yeah, it wouldn’t make any sense, right? So I just didn’t like that idea. I felt like there was a lot more I need to do in this world than to have my, you know, my impact kept by being by working at a place. But that’s just what drives me, you know, again, it’s okay for most people, and that’s, that’s fine. There’s nothing wrong about it. I just didn’t, I don’t think that aligns with me, internally and throughout my life experiences. 

Tim Ulbrich  09:43

Yeah, it’s interesting. And we’ll talk about the challenges of owning your own business. You know it’s real. I know it’s real. There are highs, there are lows, but it certainly does take off the ceiling. It also takes off the floor, right in terms of, you know what could go wrong, but you know what you’re sharing is very real. There’s no knock whatsoever to the path of a W2 you know, for many people, that is what makes the most sense, for a variety of reasons, but it is a reality that in the US, from a tax standpoint, the tax code is very much written in favor of people that own a business and own real estate. Those are really two things. And you know, it’s interesting we think about a lot of independent pharmacy owners, despite the challenges. You know, they’re really tapping into both of those things, and I can really sense how it was important you have that autonomy to be able to pursue not only the decision making in the business, but also to have some of the financial upside flexibility. But I want people to hear this loud and clear, like there is real downside as well when it comes to owning the business. And both must be considered, and we’ll talk about that here in a little bit. So take us back then you open the doors of the pharmacy in the Avondale, Cincinnati area in April of this year. And so at some point, you know, while you might have temporarily went away from Hey, I’m ready to open my pharmacy, it came back, right. So what was the moment where you said, All right, I’m ready to do this. And what led, what was the spark to really get into that place of alright, let’s go.

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  11:11

Yeah. So this was in 2022 which feels like last year, but two years ago, when I was in the middle of my fellowship, and I, you know, one of the things I value is network and having people around you that always look out for you. That is the value of that has just been immense in my life. But, you know, I was in my fellowship at the time, I was working part time, sort of, I mean, I wasn’t the official pharmacy manager, but I was basically the manager at the independent pharmacy that I worked at. So I was quite busy, you know, being the fellowship, doing research, and doing all these different things, and still fully commit, you know, helping out at the retail pharmacy. And I remember it was Stu Beatty, actually, from OPA. 

Tim Ulbrich  12:04

Oh, no way. 

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  12:06

Yeah, yes, yeah. He sent me the flyer to Project Oasis, which is the program that I got the opportunity to open the pharmacy through. And I started to learn about it. And initially I brushed it down. I was like, Well, this is some national program. There’s no chance that I’ll even get anywhere close to this. And I sort of didn’t even, you know, want to, I knew that’s what I wanted to do, but I really didn’t think I would get anywhere. And then, you know, two weeks later or so, Antonio Ciaccio who have gone to me, you know, through different experiences, and we’ve connected very well, he’s forwarded that same flyer to me, saying, Hey, I think you’d be a good candidate. I think you should apply to this. I was like, Oh, my so I guess the stars are aligned, and everyone thinks that I’m, you know, I tend to think of myself more humbly, and I didn’t think I would get anywhere. But you know, was these two folks that believed in me and encouraged me to go out and apply, and I took on the process and started doing my due diligence, drawing from my knowledge, and really leaning in on people that I know. Again, once I started to digest and understand what Project Oasis was trying to accomplish, it was almost mirror of what I wanted to do in every way right, make an impact in a place that doesn’t have a pharmacy, be the pharmacy, be the pharmacy shepherd, quote, unquote, in that community and helping address the needs and concerns of the community. So that just resonated with me on a very personal level, and it just aligned. And the biggest part of all that was that you got to open a pharmacy, but not just by yourself. You had the back end support of so many people that are committed to seeing this successful. So to me, was like, a no brainer, to at least pursue it. If it didn’t pan out, at least I learned a thing or two about writing a business plan that needed to be presented in like, you know, really, really hire people in McKesson, and so I applied for it, and that’s basically all where the story started.

Tim Ulbrich  14:22

You know, it’s interesting. Back to the through line of entrepreneurship. Emmanuel, I often say that, you know, for people and your story is such a good one, the synchronicity here is not accidental, right? So you might have kind of taken a sidestep or a pause, but it chased you down eventually, right? It chased you down in the form of Stu Beatty, now the Dean at Ohio Northern and Antonio Ciaccio, two incredible individuals in the profession and Ohio pharmacy practice that clearly saw a potential and an opportunity, and really, you know, that was a big nudge and an avenue forward. You mentioned Project Oasis a couple times. Tell us more about that for those that are listening, what exactly is that? How is that helpful to you getting this off the ground?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  15:03

Yeah, so Project Oasis, was, you know, being that, you know, of course, I’ve been involved in no ins and out. But if you know, McKesson always tries, tries to tell everyone to just, you know, say certain lines. But I’ll give more, more back into how we started. You know, in Avondale here we had one of McKesson employees who lives and doesn’t live in Avondake, but family’s from Avondale here and has a very personal ties with community. This is way back then in 2018-2019 and he started to notice that his community was losing access to so many things. Grocery stores were closing, pharmacies were closing, and a community that’s in the heart of Cincinnati, literally, you see, health is right behind us, doesn’t have these critical things, grocery store, a pharmacy and so many other things that were needed. And there was this general talk within McKesson of trying to do a community impact project, something that would impact lives. And I think every organization of business should always try to do something beyond just their typical mission of whatever it is that they do to impact lives, because that’s where that’s all that matters at the end of the day. So they, you know, he took on the idea with support of folks within his division McKesson, that was a Russo O’Neill, okay? And he pushed his idea that, hey, let’s try to start a pharmacy where it’s needed. And they did an analysis and found that Avondale, Cincinnati, truly was, like, top of the list in terms of, you know, an urban region that doesn’t have a pharmacy, health isn’t where it needs, where it needs to be as a community level, and so many other things, disparities that were going on in Avondale, and that’s where it all started from. And, you know, fortunately, those within the higher ups of McKesson saw the impact that this project could make. And, you know, they dubbed the Project Oasis with the term that, you know, desert, pharmacy desert, and you’re putting the pharmacy there. And so, yeah, that’s what, that’s where Project Oasis started from, but one of the things that I learned through applying to it was the level of commitment that people had, not just as you know workers within this, you know, Fortune 10 company, but also the personal connection that people had towards a Project where people you know, you meet folks, are like, hey, whatever you need to be successful. I am happy to help you out. This is important. We want to make an impact in your community. So that was really, that’s really what Project Oasis is about. Now I don’t know what their what McKesson and their goal is right now with Project Oasis. But the goal was to sort of address this pharmacy deserts that come across, you know, the United States. 

Tim Ulbrich  18:07

So we’ll link to that in the show notes for folks that want to learn more about that program. Do you have an idea? Manu, I’m just curious now, how many pharmacies have been supported by Project Oasis?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  18:19

Oh, so right now, I am the first.

Tim Ulbrich  18:21

Let’s go!

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  18:22

Yeah, I’m the only one so far. And you know, it’s quite, quite a responsibility to be success, to make this successful, because a lot of other communities are, hopefully, maybe might be impacted by this. So failure is not an option. That’s how I see it. So I’m sort of a test run to see, yeah, if this can work.

Tim Ulbrich  18:45

Well, you and I both know, from a business standpoint, there will be micro failures that happen along the way. I hear you in the global failure, right? But, but naturally, for you to see this vision through, you’re going to have to embrace some level of failure along the way and take some risks. One of the things that stands out to me, Emmanuel, is that, you know, I talk with a lot of people on a regular basis, they have an idea, but it often dies at that point, right? The idea doesn’t go forward. It’s a whole nother level to actually execute, take on risk and begin to see that vision through and and I’ve since in your journey, while you’ve always thought about owning your own business, clearly the support and the resources through Project Oasis have been huge for you to say, All right, I’m ready to jump. I’m ready to move this forward. In addition to project Oasis and the team from McKesson that support you, what other resources have been critical to you as you’ve gone through this, this journey of open your own pharmacy?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  19:41

I mean, if I started to list them out, you provide spend the next hour of this going through it. But I think the most important resource for me, in addition to the things that I try to do personally, like reading a lot of books, listening to a lot of audiobooks, has been people, the people that have gotten to meet. For me, I value relationships at a very high attribute, a very high value to relationships. So people that played a key part in my life, as been my former boss that I worked with in Zik’s Pharmacy. He’s just been a terrific human being to me, and has helped me with the realities of owning the business and how to be successful. So it’s people. I mean, I could go down a list of folks at Cedarville who have helped me personally my personal growth as a pharmacist, helping me understand certain things. It really is just people. I think the big, your biggest asset to success, for anyone, any successful person, is people. 

Tim Ulbrich  20:49

Yes, relationships, people, absolutely. Especially in our profession, you know, where that community is is so small, right? Relatively speaking. And one of the things I asked you, before we hit record, I said, Hey, Emmanuel, how you doing? And you said, Hey, I’m going 1000 miles an hour, but I have so much support, so much support, and I think that speaks to the work that you’ve done in fostering those relationships, and the growth that has come from those. Emmanuel, I have to ask the obvious question that I think a lot of probably new practitioners that are thinking about owning their own pharmacy, or anyone, for that matter, that maybe is thinking about owning on a pharmacy, which is Wow, opening a pharmacy in this climate, right? We know the challenges are real. According to a recent NCPA survey, over 30% of respondents reported that they’re considering closing their doors in 2024 because of the financial challenges, and over 90% of them said that they may drop out of Medicare Part D in 2025 if the challenges still persist. So from the outside looking in, it doesn’t appear to be the best time to be launching a new pharmacy. So tell us more about how you’ve been able to, you know, see through that despite those challenges being real, and say, Hey, I’m still going to go at this. 

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  22:02

I think the first thing I’ve learned in life is nothing is truly as good as it seems, and nothing is truly as bad as it seems. It’s always all gray. There’s no exactly this is black and this is white. It never is that way. It’s always all gray. And what I mean by that is, will you dive deeper and understand in a specific market the factors and headwinds going on in that market is very different. For example, in Ohio, if you’re in a Medicaid an area that has high Medicaid concentration, you have a fair dispensing fee that covers your costs of operating as a business. So that alone is a huge difference than a pharmacy that doesn’t have a high Medicaid area, right? So, yes, there’s always there. They are real, harsh realities of the pharmacy right now, even as a new business, when I look at my Medicare, you know, scripts, and performance in those scripts, I mean, I want to, I would throw my hands up and just, it’s, it’s horrifying sometimes, you know, but the reality of what I’ve learned is, you know, typically, to be successful in life. And I’m not saying this because I’m anywhere yet, but I’m saying this because I’ve seen other people, and I learned from a lot of people, but what I found is people that tend to be successful often go against the grain, go against what the crowd typically does. And there’s cycles in life. There’s always going to be naders and high points. And I think pharmacy is out of Nader right now. But when you are the Nader, that’s not necessarily negative thing. That’s a good thing when you started a native because it’s only high from there. And there’s a lot of factors and a lot of things and challenges that are going to happen in next 10 years for pharmacy to be where it needs to be. But I think that I am hopeful that we’re at the lowest point, and from here it’s just moving forward. 

Tim Ulbrich  23:59

Yeah, I really hear mindset there Emmanuel, which I think is huge as a business owner, but I also hear optimism. I’m an optimist by nature, you know, as well. But I agree with you, actually, you know, it reminds me of Seth Godin talks about this in his book, The Dip, where, you know, often we go through these cycles, could be a project, could be a business, wherever you know, where we have an initial momentum and surge, and then we, you know, for whatever reason here we’re talking about market conditions and factors and reimbursement. You know, we kind of go down right, and we get to this low point, and we start to just come out of the other side of it, but we can’t yet see what’s coming. And that’s the point where a lot of people give up, you know, is when they’re in that low point, in that dip. And I think that it feels, and again, I’m a half glass full person, it feels like all signs are pointing towards some reform and these things, I think you and I look at this just as a common sense business owner, and we’re like, How in the world can this be okay to operate a business with these practices going on right? Now there’s a lot of headwinds that we’re facing in terms of why that’s the case, but I’m curious to hear from you as you look at as an owner and someone who shoulders some of the responsibility to advocate for, you know, the viability of community independent pharmacists to be able to provide the value that we know. The literature is very clear, the positive value and outcomes that a pharmacist can provide in their community, especially in an area where there’s a lack of access to healthcare. The data is clear. It’s there, but we continue to be undervalued and under reimbursed globally speaking. So as you look at this from, hey, I’m a business owner, but I’m also an advocate for the profession, what are some of those key issues that we really have to address?

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  25:35

Oh, where do I start? I think the biggest key issue is, you know, we live in a capitalistic society, and we just have to accept that reality. Our businesses are not, you know, they’re not you know, pharmacies are not nonprofits. They have to be able to make money doing a certain service. And there are two ways to incentivize people to do things. You either use the carrot or use the steak method, right? And to really move the needle on a lot of things in pharmacy practice, to get community pharmacy practice to be where it needs to be, there has to be payment reform. Reform in a sense that it covers us to operate as a business and provide those scripts, but also reform in a sense that we’re actually paid for the clinical knowledge that we provide. So those are, I mean, that sums, encapsulates lots of challenges, but those are the key. I think those are two things that need to happen for pharmacy, community pharmacy, to be where it needs to be. I think the values there. I mean, everyone is the values there. I’ve been opportunity to be on the tables with payers, physicians. I mean, everyone, even patients, everyone agrees that the values there. The challenge now is just getting rid of those barriers that allow us to be able to create a clear path to making these realistic, or, I guess, tactile, changes in the payment models that allow pharmacists to be paid.

Tim Ulbrich  27:08

Yeah, amen, you know, I think we it’s very clear. We don’t need another study to demonstrate the value of what a pharmacist can bring, right? We don’t need another pilot project, you know, to demonstrate that. They’ve been done. We see the value and the reimbursement, I think, is really the issue. And two individuals you mentioned earlier that were pivotal, you know, you started the pharmacy, Antonio Ciaccio, Stu Beatty, have been key advocates of this in the state of Ohio, you know, over the last decade, if not more. So last question I want to ask you is really the intersection between the business and the personal side of finances. You know, I talk with a lot of new graduates, and it’s not uncommon for me to hear something along the lines of, Hey, Tim, I would love to do X, Y or Z. And that could be on a business that could be, you know, do something different, work part time. It could be a variety of different things. But what comes next is my $200,000 of student loans, or insert any other financial challenge that is so common among new practitioners is a barrier to being able to go work towards these other goals that they have, right? And I think the golden handcuffs can be very real when you’re looking at a couple $100,000 of debt, and you can sign up and work for 120 130 $140,000 it’s hard to say no for that, and it doesn’t incentivize a whole lot of people to take risk in the way that you have done. So tell us about your decision, your journey to reconciling your own financial plan as a new practitioner, and ultimately making that decision to take on some risk as a business owner.

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  28:35

Yeah, absolutely. My vision and the way I see things and my general approach to life and business is sort of like planting trees, right? And what I mean by that is, yes, you might not have the perfectly, you know, I guess nutrient swallow for a tree that’s several feet high, but you can at least plant something for now, and that that is kind of has been my approach to everything, and why you might not have the financial capacity to necessarily, you know, you might not feel like you have the financial capacity to do certain things, it’s still important to plant the tree. And that’s, that’s how I see things. So I have about, honestly, have just slightly I’m a little bit better, and in comparison to a lot of pharmacy graduates, I have about $103,000 in student loans, which, which is still a lot of money, quite a lot of money. But it’s not nothing compares, in comparison to others who are just graduating. But the thing I would say is the way I would approach this is, do I have the cash flow to sustain my ability to eradicate those loans in a reasonable way? And if I do, or if I don’t, what ways can I mitigate that, even if I went to going to you know, own a business, that would be how our approach is. Because no matter how you see it, right, if owning a business is your end goal, if that’s where you want to be, time is going to go on. You know, time doesn’t wait for anyone. 10 years down the line, you’re going to be in the same place having, I mean, if you’re lucky, cleared all this debt, but at the end of the day, if this is something you want to do, you have to figure out to make your finances accommodate that in a way that makes sense. Now, again, it doesn’t mean you’re just blindly taking risks, right? Yeah, you actually have to calculate and see, okay, yeah. What is the worst case scenario if this happens, you know XYZ, and be able to be okay with that. If you can’t be okay with it, then maybe, I mean, some people, just maybe, the reality is that they actually are aren’t fit from a mindset perspective, to own a business, and that’s okay because it requires that you’re okay with, like, literally, things burning down. You just being by yourself and being able to weather through storm, you have to be okay with that reality, and that shouldn’t, shouldn’t scare you or deter you from accomplishing what you actually want to do. Yeah,

Tim Ulbrich  31:12

What I really hear there is, is, there is risk. It’s real, but it’s calculated risk, right? You’re not blindly entering into something, but we’re also not being paralyzed, you know? We could wait forever for the stars to align, you know. And I think that’s something I had to reconcile on my own entrepreneur journey. Is sure, could there be a tomorrow where it’s a better time, maybe, but there’s also a lot of things I don’t know that are going to happen tomorrow. And the question I always ask myself, not only in starting a business, but also in making decisions within the business, is, how high is the ceiling and how low is the floor. And I think my mindset, and probably for a lot of pharmacists, that I’ve kind of untrained myself, or I’m still untraining myself over time, is, you know, we tend to overestimate the worst case scenario, when, in fact, if we write it on paper, often it’s not as bad as we think it is, or built it up to be in our heads, and we maybe give we underestimate the potential of where this could go. Now, you got to be careful about that, right? If we have naive optimism, you know that that could burn us, but really assessing risk, you know, I think risk can bring a ton of emotions of fear, and we lose the objectivity of what are we actually talking about, right? What is the worst case scenario, and how can we begin to work through that? So I appreciate you sharing that as it relates to your own journey. Well, this has been fantastic. Dr. Manny, right as your patients call you, so grateful for you taking the time before you open the store today. A lot of inspiration that you provided to me in your own journey. I look forward to continuing to stay connected with you and to see where the journey goes going forward. Thank you so much for taking time to come on the show.

Emmanuel Ayanjoke  32:41

Thank you so much. Tim. Glad to be on.

Tim Ulbrich  32:45

Before we wrap up today’s show, I want to again thank this week’s sponsor of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, First Horizon. We’re glad to have found a solution for pharmacists that are unable to save 20% for a down payment on a home. A lot of pharmacists and the YFP community have taken advantage of First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan, which requires a 3% down payment for a single family home or townhome for first time homebuyers and has no PMI on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. To learn more about the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan and to get started with the pre-approval process, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. 

Tim Ulbrich  33:30

As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archive, newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyzes expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events, action results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit your financial pharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week. 

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Brentsen Wolf, PharmD, Founder and President of the nonprofit RxTeach, shares his journey of starting and leading a nonprofit organization.

Episode Summary

On this episode, Tim Ulbrich connects with industry pharmacist Brentsen Wolf, PharmD about his journey starting RxTeach, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing scholarships in the areas of advancing preventative medicine education and cancer research. Brentsen discusses the motivations behind starting RxTeach, how he was able to go from idea to getting it off the ground and shares the lessons he learned along the way. He also discusses his thoughts on the future of the organization and the efforts RxTeach is supporting.

About Today’s Guest

Brentsen Wolf graduated with his PharmD from the Southern Illinois University of Edwardsville in 2021. He then completed a 2-year post-doctoral medical affairs fellowship through the Rutgers Pharmaceutical Industry Fellowship Program at Merck. Brentsen currently works as an MSL in thoracic malignancies in the pharmaceutical industry.

Brentsen is the President and Founder of RxTeach, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to providing scholarships in the areas of advancing preventative medicine education and cancer research. Brentsen has a passion for health and fitness, professional development, and research. You can connect with him via LinkedIn and read all of his articles here.

Key Points from the Episode

• Pharmacist’s career journey and nonprofit work. [0:00]
• Nonprofit organization RX Teach, providing educational content for pharmacists and students. [4:32]
• Preventative medicine and cancer treatment. [9:07]
• Nonprofit efforts to create educational content and raise funds for scholarships. [13:23]
• Brentsen Wolf avoids burnout by making nonprofit effort [14:45]
• Nonprofit formation and legal requirements. [19:48]
• Nonprofit organization’s mission to provide scholarships for pharmacy students and prevent cancer through education. [24:33]

Episode Highlights

“Starting the non-profit was based on passion. And I think if you can articulate well for yourself, what is actually going to drive you and prevent you from burning out. That’s how you make this decision.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [14:48]

“If you’re thinking about doing something, whether it’s a nonprofit, for profit, blog, side project, whatever it is, there’s never going to be a perfect time.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [20:51]

“I hear all the time, like, oh, once I get X number of dollars in the bank, or once I get to this place in my career, that’s when I’ll do this. And I can tell you, you know, ever since having my first child, you just, there’s no perfect time. It’s always going to be hard in some fashion, there’s always going to be some kinds of challenges, and you’re going to meet those along the way and overcome them and feel good about that.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [20:59]

“So stop waiting is my first piece of advice, just take the first step. And if it goes slowly, if it takes a long time, or it’s really difficult upfront, that’s fine, it was never going to be super easy.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [21:19]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• RxTeach
• YFP Gives
• YFP Planning
• Huberman Lab Podcast
• Brentsen Wolf, Pharmd on LinkedIn
• YFP Disclaimer
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter
• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• YFP on Instagram
• YFP Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich  00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I had the pleasure of sitting down with industry pharmacist Brentsen Wolf about his journey, starting the nonprofit, Rx Teach. We discussed the motivations behind starting Rx Teach how he was able to go from idea to getting off the ground, the lessons he learned along the way, the future of the organization and the efforts that Rx Teach is supporting. Now, before we jump into my interview with Brentsen, I have a hard truth for you to hear: making a six figure income is not a financial plan. Yes, you’ve worked hard to get where you are today. Yes, you’re earning a good income. But have you ever wondered, am I on track to retire? How do I prioritize and fund all the competing financial goals that I have? How do I plan financially for big upcoming life events and changes like moving having a child, changing jobs, getting married or retiring? And why perhaps am I not as far along financially at this point in my career, as I thought I would be? One of the answers may be that your six figure income is not a financial plan. As a pharmacist, yes, you have an incredible tool in your toolbox – your salary. But without a vision and a plan that good income will only go so far. That’s in part why we started Your Financial Pharmacist back in 2015. At YFP, we support pharmacists at every stage of their careers to take control their finances reach their financial goals and build wealth through comprehensive, fee-only financial planning and tax planning. Our team of certified financial planners and tax professionals work with pharmacists all across the United States, and helps our clients set their future selves up for success while living a rich life today. If you’re ready to see how Your Financial Pharmacist can support you on your financial journey, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/learn to learn more about our services. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/learn. Alright, let’s jump into my interview with Brentsen Wolf, founder of Rx Teach. 

Tim Ulbrich  02:06

Brentsen, welcome to the show.

Brentsen Wolf  02:08

Thank you, Tim. Thank you. 

Tim Ulbrich  02:09

Well it’s been a treat for me, you and I connected a couple years back when you were doing your industry fellowship with Merck through the Rutgers program. And we collaborated on some personal finance sessions with the fellows which we’ve done now for a few years, which has been a lot a lot of fun and it’s been a joy. And before we get into the work that you’ve been doing with the nonprofit Rx Teach, and we’re excited to share more of that story and the journey that led to that work and the impact that you’re having. Tell us more about your career story in pharmacy, what led you into the profession? What led to the interest in industry and the work that you’re doing now?

Brentsen Wolf  02:43

Yeah, it’s a good question. Especially because coming from the Midwest, and I know we’re both Midwest guys, the kind of interesting opportunities for PharmDs outside of retail and hospital aren’t thrown at you in school the way they are in some of the coastal areas. So yeah, my, my journey to where I’m at now is, you know, convoluted and stressful in some ways, but also just, you know, I think I ended up where I needed to be. So I graduated from Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville in 2021. And like I said, Midwest thought retail, or inpatient pharmacy, I worked in both of those areas, and, you know, during school and just wasn’t sure that it was really for me. I learned in probably my P3 year that these fellowships existed. And I was glad to connect with you at some point to bring you into those folds. Because I know the fellows don’t know anything about personal finance. I certainly didn’t. So those are very helpful sessions. I’m glad we collaborated in that way. But yeah, I ended up at Merck, doing a medical affairs fellowship, and mostly solid tumors, the little bit of work in infectious diseases as well, and just absolutely loved it. I knew I found what I was looking for in a career, it actually drew me in. I was very passionate about all of the work I was doing. So I actually transitioned after fellowship over to AstraZeneca, which is where I’m at now working in thoracic malignancies as a medical science liaison, which again, couldn’t be happier. I’m back where I grew up, surrounded by family. I’ve got a one year old daughter now. So that part’s important. It’s cheaper living here than New York City where some of my colleagues live. So yeah, couldn’t couldn’t complain. And that’s kind of how I ended up where I am now. Hey,

Tim Ulbrich  04:24

You’ve got the sought after sweet gig, working in an industry position, but living in an affordable cost of living area. We work with a lot of industry pharmacists that make a great income, certainly, but often cost of living is a challenging part of the plan. So you’re certainly happy for you and where that career has progressed. Let’s talk about the nonprofit organization that you started RX Teach. And tell us about what exactly is Rx Teach and ultimately, how did it come to be? How did it get started? 

Brentsen Wolf  04:57

Rx Teach was a brainchild I had during fellowship, and for whatever reason, I thought I had enough free time to start this thing. So if that tells you anything about work life balance as a fellow versus maybe a resident, that might be a bit insightful. So I ended up, you know, just saying, screw it, I just want to do something. I wanted my own platform, I wanted to be able to say and talk about things that were important to me. And so I started this website. And honestly, the thought of it becoming a nonprofit organization was in my head, but was I was too busy. I didn’t know what I was doing. You know, it was it was down the line. So really, it started off almost like a blog, right? Just kind of writing member that I care about. I think you were one of the first people I talked to about it. So we really focused on a couple of different areas as a nonprofit, the two main ones that were preventative medicine, education. And the second one is cancer, essentially, broadly speaking. So we write a lot about those topics. But we also write about pretty much you know, across the board, anything that could contribute to pharmacists, or really any health care professions understanding of a certain topic. So we’ll do journal clubs, lifestyle management stuff. And we do all of that via essentially a weekly email, sometimes more than weekly. We’ve gathered a following and a community now that we’re very proud of. And like I said, we don’t keep a cent of anything, to be honest with you, it all gets donated. And that’s because our Rx Teach at its core, is still just a passion project and a hobby for the board, all the board members. You know, we we keep it very balanced. It’s in terms of work life balance. The second this feels like a job, we won’t do it. But you know, we’re very passionate about these topics. And so it’s been very easy for us to maintain this kind of work life balance with Rx Teach and still be able to provide scholarships and funds to students in the local communities like we’ve always sought after so.

Tim Ulbrich  06:58

So the website will link to this in the show notes, rxteach.com. So our listeners can check it out as well. Brenton, you mentioned we when you talked about some of the content, the articles is that you and the board? Are there other people that are contributing? Tell us about what that model looks like. I know content creation can be a labor of love. So I’m curious to hear more.

Tim Ulbrich  07:16

You know, it’s funny, you mentioned that. I was just thinking about this. I’m listening to a six part podcast series, one of my favorite shows the Huberman Lab podcast. And he did a six part series, his content is just fantastic. But he did a six part series on sleep with Matthew Walker, and it was one of the things I’m listening to and it’s like, Okay, think of all the things we learned about in pharmacy school about prescribing sleep medications and mechanism of action. Is this going to help, you know, latency and onset and people falling asleep versus, etc. We know nothing about, like prevention to the actual, like mechanics of sleep and is like, yes, yes. What you’re saying so true. Right. It’s, it’s that you know, we have such a strong focus, obviously, on the treatment, makes sense for pharmacists, but, you know, it’s like wow, the preventative aspect. And all in I remember even learning some of those things where it’s like sleep hygiene and, you know, self care, and we’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like maybe there’ll be a question there. Right. But what do I need to know about the drugs? Right?

Brentsen Wolf  07:16

Yeah, it’s definitely a it is a big week. So I frequently write for the website and my co-founder Kristin Lindauer, who’s a PGY1 trained pharmacist and is now an HIV ambulatory care pharmacist over in Virginia, also frequently writes. But we highlight student work constantly, it was one of the things that was important to us, because I didn’t think I had opportunities to really showcase my work or understanding or maybe some niche topics that I cared about as a student. So now we have students write for us all the time, you can go look at the website and see who has done that in the past. Oftentimes, if they write for us once they write for us, again, because it’s a decent experience. So students write for us, we also get other residents writing pharmacy residents, current fellows will right health care providers in any field. So we have Day in the Life series of like a veterinarian pharmacist, a retail pharmacist, and oncology pharmacist, etc. So we really highlight the full gambit. But we like I said, we do have particular interests in preventative medicine, and cancer, just because that’s where all of our money goes to. So content on that is obviously a big part of it. So for instance, we have a whole series on how to prescribe exercise, which I think is a big you don’t get that in pharmacy school now, right? Not to get on my soapbox, but honestly, like if a patient were to ask any given pharmacist or physician, like hey, I want to prevent cardiovascular disease, how do I do that? You’re not going to get a very in depth answer. Generally, you’re gonna get 30 minutes, five times a week of moderate intensity exercise. And that’s just to me not a good enough response. Right. And that’s the purpose of this whole thing, is how do we hash that out and really educate people on how would you respond to that patient in a way that I think is sufficient? And I do say I, it’s subjective term, but that’s the point of the organization.

Brentsen Wolf  10:05

Yeah, I totally agree. And I don’t think the healthcare system is even currently set up to understand the impact that, you know, preventative education could even bring, which is why we’re so interested. It’s a huge gap, huge gap. And it’s not just pharmacists. I want to say that. 

Tim Ulbrich  10:21

That’s right. That’s right. 

Brentsen Wolf  10:22

It’s physicians, nurses, PAs, whatever, you’re not learning this in school. So really, people have to self educate at this point, which is a bummer. But we hope to help make that easier for those people. 

Tim Ulbrich  10:34

What is the passion behind the preventative medicine, the cancer focus? Those are really the two pillars that I’m hearing you share about? Where does that passion? Where does that interest come from?

Brentsen Wolf  10:43

Yeah, so I mean, for me, and you seem like a fit guy. I’ve always been in exercise and lifestyle management. And Kristin Lindauer, also has been too. She’s a I mean, she’s in better shape than me in certain ways. She just ran a marathon in three hours and 27 minutes!

Tim Ulbrich  10:59

No way! 

Brentsen Wolf  11:00

She’s a superstar. Yeah, I mean, I hope to get that fast eventually. But, you know, fitness has always been something that we have been passionate about and have felt, at least anecdotally, for ourselves, the incredible benefits. And then all of a sudden, you know, you start seeing these publications around longevity and what contributes, what contributes to it. So anything from how a VO2 Max can predict your overall survival over a 10 year period, and how grip strength is associated with preventing hip fractures in the elderly. And all of these things start to stack on top of each other and really paint the picture of how important fitness lifestyle management is to preventing disease. And so it’s an area where I can easily nerd out in and you know, just dive very deep into the data. And I write about it frequently. So it was an obvious pillar. And plus, I had identified it as unmet need. I really think we need more of this information out there. And we need to encourage students, current students to look for this type of data so they can incorporate it into their practices once they once they graduate. As for cancer, you know, I think about it in my head is we’re attacking the two sides of healthcare: preventative, and then the sickest patients, right. And I started doing breast cancer genetics research, before I ever even got into pharmacy school. So oncology was a huge passion of mine, I had a mentor named Dr. Ronald Worthington, who really drove me towards that kind of thing. It’s why I almost went and did a PhD, right. And so I just, you know, you know, anyone with cancer, you know, what this is, like, it’s a tough field to be into a lot of the times. I think biologically, it’s, it’s extremely interesting. So again, it’s easy for me to write about because I have so much passion for it. But we need people that are willing to go into this space forever gonna take care of cancer, and cancer is not something you just cure, right? There’s 1000s of tumor types. I mean, it’s not it’s not how it works. And the general public thinks, oh, what’s the cure for cancer, it’s not going to be one thing, I can guarantee it. But you know, we need pharmacists, we need physicians, nurses that grow passion for oncology early, and then are willing to really put in the time down the line and hopefully, start kicking away at these patient outcomes, which are historically not I mean, you take you take metastatic lung cancer, five year overall survival rates of less than 10%. And I mean, that’s, you know, not not great, obviously, still unmet needs. So these are the areas we’ve chosen to focus on, again, for passion and impact. 

Tim Ulbrich  13:23

I love what you’ve built, because to me, I can hear the passion in your voice, I can hear the energy and excitement, right, you’re building something that’s taking an area of interest for you, one that you’re naturally going to be excited about create creating content getting others involved in, that you’re then able to teach others of which has more impact, right, and I would assume that’s energizing as well, as you see, hey, people are learning about things that maybe they otherwise wouldn’t have learned about. And it’s written in a way that you can connect from a pharmacist to pharmacist perspective, and an immediate need, right, and ultimately leading to scholarships and other efforts that are having a benefit. So that has the the ingredients that are so important, that we often talk about on the for profit side of a business, but yeah, here we’re talking about the nonprofit side, which is, you know, equally if not more important. I’m curious to hear more about, you know, you started, I heard you say, Hey, I just got started, right. You know, I just got started, I knew I wanted to create my own platform. I didn’t necessarily think, or I couldn’t see all the dots connect of how this would become a 501 C3, maybe that was an idea that loosely you held. But ultimately, you went that direction. And it very much could have been a you know, blog site that turned into a for profit membership community, a lot of different models that are out there. What was that juncture decision point where you said, Hey, I’m going to keep forward with this educational mission. But I really do want to make it into a nonprofit effort. 

Brentsen Wolf  14:44

Yeah. You kind of You briefly mentioned it and it was it’s based off of passion. And I think if you can articulate well for yourself, what is actually going to drive you and prevent you from burning out. That’s how you make this decision. For me if I knew that if I was trying to do this stuff, you know, as in a for profit matter, just to make money for myself, which I honestly don’t I see no issues with that I just know that I would have personally burned out on. It would it’s it would have become work instead of a passion project, I would have been chasing metrics that, you know, as a nonprofit, if I don’t make a million dollars, it, it does not bother me, I’m giving as much money away as I possibly can. And if I don’t hit a specific number, it doesn’t hurt me personally. I think if it was a for profit model, those numbers would have gotten into my head a little bit more, would have affected my mentality towards Rx Teach in general. And I was just trying to avoid that. And so, you know, getting the board together, a group of people that were on the same page is like, Hey, we’re just doing this in our free time. This is passion driven 100%. And whatever, however many dollars we can donate. That’s the goal. And we’re going to get that number as big as we can get it, but we’re not going to kill ourselves doing it. And that’s kind of how we landed on this model. Because, you know, I’ve got a one year old daughter at home, I got a full time job, all these things you got to you got to make sure it’s it’s driven by the right motivation, or you’re not gonna make it. 

Tim Ulbrich  16:08

I like that, because I think I was sharing with someone recently that when we think about a lot of the burnout that we’re seeing in our profession and to be honest, it’s not just pharmacy, right? I think the healthcare workforce at large, obviously, the impact of the pandemic and, and other factors in there as well, I think something like this, not to suggest you to go out and start your own nonprofit, but be being involved in an effort, whether that’s an investment of time, money, both, right, I think that participation in something bigger than the grind of what you’re doing every day, even for those who say, I love my job, great. There’s still a lot of stressing me evolve. You’ve got a one one year old child at home, like life’s busy, right. And I think, you know, for us to kind of go back to our roots and say, Hey, why did we get interested in healthcare in the first place? I think we lose that sometimes over time. And just an encouragement to listeners, you know, whether it’s getting involved in Rx Teach, whether it’s getting involved something local in your community, or both great, like, what are some of those initiatives and opportunities where people can get involved? And I think that naturally can be in part an antidote to some of that burnout that we so often see. So curious, certainly to hear you tie that directly back to that decision, that strategic move you made to go into the nonprofit direction. Yeah. How do you, not make money, right, that’s for profit language. But how do you ultimately raise funds that get delivered in the form of scholarships. Is it individual donations? What what is the predominant ways in which you’re raising money as an organization? 

Brentsen Wolf  17:34

So right now we do it in three different ways, right. So the first way is, what we started off at the beginning is that this is gonna be a free resource for anyone to read and do with what they want. And we’re gonna go deep into data, we’re gonna do all these things. If you care about our mission, and you want to get this content with a small monthly donation, we’re gonna let you do that. And so we just set up a couple of different subscriber levels. Yeah, paid members get some extra stuff, you know, maybe an extra article here and there. But really, it is like, hey, if you find value in this and care about what we’re doing, it’s always going to be free. And we have because we want to change the community, right? i If you can’t afford it, I’m not going to make you pay for it. But if you want to contribute, feel free to do that. So we have a subscriber base model, which is probably where we get the most of our money. We also have a couple of digital assets, which are pretty new that I actually have enjoyed this process a lot. So we have some cheats, cheat sheets on things like cirrhosis, sickle cell disease, we have a how to guide for Journal Club which I absolutely love.

Tim Ulbrich  18:33

I could’ve used that one in pharmacy school! 

Brentsen Wolf  18:34

Yeah, I totally agree with that thinking back to pharmacy school days! Kristin put that together, which I think it was important for a resident or someone with residency experience to do that, because she puts Pearls in there, but like, what, what questions can you expect your preceptor to ask you, so that you can prepare for this journal club where in an article can you find this information? You know, whether it’s New England Journal medicine, or general oncology, whatever it is JAMA? So that’s a great resource. And we’ve also paired up with Dr. Alex Popin, and who wrote a book called High Powered Medicine. Yeah, so we sell his book on the website, and we have an agreement in place. And we split the profits for that, which we’re very thankful to him to, you know, contribute to Rx Teacg in that way, as well. So digital assets is the second piece. And then the third piece is just like you said, one time donations, anyone who wants to give money based off of, you know, hearing this podcast, or you ran into me at a bar, and I was telling you about grip strength. Right. And they were like, oh, that’s you know, that’s interesting. So people can certainly do that on the website, just one time donations. And of course, we appreciate that. And then like I said, we have partnered with local universities to actually allocate the funds in the form of scholarships and those areas I’ve already mentioned, but that’s how we actually bring the cash in.

Tim Ulbrich  19:48

So one of the things I’m always curious to hear from people at start anything for profit, nonprofit is, you know, it’s one thing to have an idea it’s another thing to execute on an idea and it’s a big step and for some people, it’s the actual mechanics. For others. It’s the fear of, hey, you know, what if nobody kind of likes the idea of what I have out there, what if this isn’t successful? You obviously took those steps, which you know, are great that you did it led to the platform and what you have here now and certainly something you can continue to build off of. But talk us through some of those early mechanics and decisions. You know, you’re talking about a board, you talked about 501C3, like, I think sometimes even though you haven’t been doing this that long, sometimes we blow past those things like, hey, those happened. But those are big milestones that often give me barriers. So talk to us about those early stages involved going from idea to actually get into the point where you can meet someone at a bar or a conference or whatever, and say, Hey, you can make a tax deductible donation, right?

Brentsen Wolf  20:44

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that’s a great, it’s a great question. And it is there’s, there’s multiple steps. But before I get into that, I just want to say that like, if you’re thinking about doing something, whether it’s a nonprofit, for profit, blog, side project, whatever it is, there’s never going to be a perfect time. You know, I hear all the time, like, oh, once I get X number of dollars in the bank, or once I get to this place in my career, that’s when I’ll do this. And I can tell you, you know, ever since having my first child, you just, there’s no perfect time, it’s always going to be hard in some fashion, there’s always going to be some kinds of challenges, and you’re going to meet those along the way and overcome them and feel good about that. So stop waiting is my first piece of advice, just take the first step. And if it if it goes slowly, if it takes a long time, or it’s really difficult upfront, that’s fine, it was never going to be super easy, right. So that’s, that’s my first piece. But in terms of actually doing the nonprofit stuff, specifically, you know, I was working with a lawyer in our family, which certainly helped me. But talking with someone who has done this in the past is definitely a first step and just feel out what you need. So things like your bylaws, your articles of incorporation, your employee identification number, application, your Conflict of Interest Statement, these are kind of that’s kind of the four core things, you really need upfront, to register with your state. You have to start at the state level, you don’t go straight to the federal government, you have to, you know, become a corporation in the state level. Once you do that, that’s when you can actually send in some of the documentation at the federal level. And hopefully, if again, if you’re working with people who have done this before, when you actually put in your stuff with the state, you’re putting in there that you intend to be a 501C3, you’re making sure that you meet the criteria for nonprofits. So you need to go do some research on. You have to be in certain areas in order to qualify for nonprofit tax exempt status. So you want to word everything from your mission statement to your bylaws to support the fact that this is going to be a nonprofit organization, you do all that stuff upfront first, before ever talking with the federal government. For us, we were able to send in what’s called an EZ application, literally capital E capital Z, because we were bringing in less than $50,000 a year annually. That’s kind of the cut off. Even if you are making less than that you can do a full fledged application if you wish to. But certainly if you’re bringing in a million dollars in your first year, you have to you can’t use this EZ applicant is one piece of paper front and back and you’re just checking, I just checked no for everything right? It was very easy. But once you get back your EIN and your the, you’ll get an official letter from the government saying like, hey, we recognize you as a 501 C 3, that’s when you can start to reap some of the benefits of the nonprofit. So things like we use Stripe, to bring in money from our websites and Stripe has nonprofit rates that we can utilize. A lot of these third party vendors will have nonprofit rates. And sometimes it’s not public. Go look on Reddit like hey, is there a special rate for so and so and go take advantage of that. But after that you are going to file some stuff, even once you hear back from the federal government. And that’s going to be annually. It’s like federal income tax your state and income tax. In Illinois, you have to at least register with the Attorney General. You know, stuff like that is it’s paperwork. You know, that’s always going to be a small part of this. And I think staying organized is important. But again, just take a breath if you’re new to all this legal stuff like I was, it can seem a little bit like, I don’t even know what I’m doing. But at the end of the day, it’s it’s just paperwork. You know, if you’re an organized person, you’re gonna be fine. And I certainly don’t think it’s anything that should prevent you from doing this. Again, if things get off to a rocky start, like, especially in a nonprofit sense, who cares, you’re doing this for a very good reason, right? Like be easy on yourself. Just get there eventually. And let things let things sort them out as they will. 

Tim Ulbrich  24:32

I’m with you on the you know, I’ve kind of gone down this twice now in the last six months you and I talked a little bit about this. We started the nonprofit YFP Gives and your overview was great by the way from state to federal level. So anyone’s looking for like a checklist or at least just a frame of reference of the steps involved. That was fantastic! The first time we went through it we used an attorney. So helpful, right because it seems so overwhelming until you can see it. And to your point, there’s, you know, shortened forms based on your projected revenue and other things. But just to see the process from a state level up to the 501C3, okay, now that you’ve done that, you’ve got to register with the Attorney General on the state level, you got to file this solicitation format. For someone to just be able to say do XY and Z, I can assure you as well worth the fees, but I respect that that can be a barrier. Yeah. Second time I went through it, which was something not nonrelated on the pharmacy side, we EZ application was the form I had been through it, I kind of saw all the steps and I felt comfortable, like navigating that part myself seeing all that, but I couldn’t have wrapped my arms around it the first time. So I think that’s something as folks are thinking about this, you know, anticipating those legal fees, and I think it is something that certainly does add a lot of value, you’re growing through it. So great, great overview.

Brentsen Wolf  25:52

Actually, I want to add one thing to the one of the values that the attorney can can bring in is not only make sure you file the right paperwork, but oftentimes these folks have worked with corporations in the past, and they kind of know, over the years, what you know, what problems might arise. And so they will give you recommendations on how to maybe word bylaws and this kind of thing to prevent an issue that would happen if you wouldn’t have taken this step up front. So that’s a very important thing. I talked about preventative medicine, you might as well be preventative on this front as well. And an attorney can do that. 

Tim Ulbrich  26:25

That’s great. Let’s talk about the future, Brentsen. So as you look out over the next 5, 10,15 years, however long you want to go for the vision, you know, what does success look like for Rx Teach?You’ve taken this important step from idea to going through all the mechanics, the legal stuff, we just started, getting to the point where you can take tax deductible donations, you’ve been creating content for a while. What is the next iteration look like for RxTeach in terms of the work that you’re doing? And and how you would measure success?

Brentsen Wolf  26:55

Yeah, so you know, I think we’re constantly trying to assess community change, at least locally. And so that has started to happen already. RX Teach, you know, I think influencing folks locally. And that’s, that’s great news, and it’s specifically on these topics of interest. But like big, big picture goal in the next 10 years, would be to essentially expand our scholarship availability to more or less every pharmacy school in the country, but also get outside of pharmacy school. So we started with pharmacy just because that’s our background, but we’ve already started working with some schools of Exercise Science, mostly because, you know, in my perfect world, those two things come together a lot more than they currently do, you know, taking that preventative side of healthcare, into the healthcare providers, actual education. Again, that’s an area of unmet need. So scholarships across the country is what we want to be known for, to where if you can show that you’re actually interested in these very important topics, we’re going to give you money. And I feel no guilt at all about putting dollar signs in front of certain topics in order to drive people towards, well, maybe I’ll at least look up what that means if I want to get the scholarship! That’s fine with me, you know, I that’s I have no guilt on that kind of thing. And then, of course, building out the types of people who are willing to write for RX Teach and, you know, just help get our message out there. Cardiac disease is the number one killer of Americans. Kills more people than liver disease and diabetes and stroke, and it combined, it’s ridiculous. So, you know, the more we can prevent these types of things, and however, we’re going to do that, whether it’s scholarships, putting out putting out more content, selling more stuff to fund these types of events. That’s what we’re going to do. And again, I guess the number one thing for 10 years is don’t burn out, right? So it’s right, you know, keep finding that passion, make sure I’m keeping me and the rest of the board ignited about what we’re doing. And just following that passion.

Tim Ulbrich  28:48

As my partner Tim often says, you know, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. I think that’s true here as well. Right? You’ve got an important mission that transcends not only 10 years, but transcends your career. Sure. And to me, what I hear you doing, which I love is you’re getting others involved. This is not a Brentsen initiative. This is a board. This is a bigger initiative. And as those tentacles get out further, you know, it’s not about you and the face and the name. It’s about the impact, right that you can have. And that impact, I presume, isn’t going away. So when you say in 3040 years, like, hey, it’s time for someone else to take the reins like you’ve got other people that you’ve delegated, and gotten involved with on the way. This has been awesome. I appreciate you taking the time again, Rxteach.org. Make sure to check out the website we’d love for our community to not only learn about what you’re doing, get involved financially. You know, reach out to Brentsen, the team if you’ve got ideas for content that you’d like to contribute, make a donation if there’s a connection or relationship that you think could be helpful. Make sure to reach out to do that. As Brentsen says on the website, “Every cent will be given to students as merit based scholarships in cancer research and preventative medicine education.” So if you make Rx Teach a part of your giving plan, know that that’s going to be going to good use. So Brentsen, thanks so much for taking Time to come on the show. 

Brentsen Wolf  30:01

Thanks, Tim. Really appreciate it. 

Tim Ulbrich  30:04

[DISCLAIMER] As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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