YFP 352: Pharmacy Innovators with Kelley Carlstrom, PharmD, BCOP


In another episode of the Pharmacy Innovator series, Dr. Kelley Carlstrom, CEO and founder of KelleyCPharmD, discusses entrepreneurship in oncology pharmacy.

Episode Summary

On this episode, we have another segment of the YFP Podcast’s Pharmacy Innovator series! Hosted by Corrie Sanders, PharmD, this series is tailored for pharmacists venturing into entrepreneurship, featuring stories and strategies for aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs.  

This week, we delve into the dynamic world of entrepreneurship within oncology pharmacy with Dr. Kelley Carlstrom. Kelley is a board-certified oncology pharmacist and CEO and founder of KelleyCPharmD, which addresses crucial gaps in clinical oncology training. Dr. Carlstrom shares her experiences working in traditional and non-traditional settings, healthcare technology, insights on her transition from employee to entrepreneur, her evolving business model, and opportunities in oncology for pharmacists. Kelley also discusses how to monetize your expertise and the value of communities when starting a business.

About Today’s Guest

Kelley Carlstrom is the CEO and founder of KelleyCPharmD, an education company that fills the considerable gap in clinical oncology training. She is passionate about democratizing oncology pharmacy education and increasing accessibility and inclusion through her unique L.E.A.R.N Oncology Method.

Kelley received her Doctor of Pharmacy from The University of Colorado and completed post-graduate residency training at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, MA. 

She is a board-certified oncology pharmacist that has worked in a variety of traditional and non-traditional settings including at large academic and small community cancer centers, as a consultant for a large electronic medical record implementation, and in the healthcare technology space helping create digital products for oncology clinicians and patients. 

Kelley is also a prolific content creator, sharing clinical and motivational pearls about oncology. She is part of the LinkedIn Top Voices program, an invitation-only program that recognizes and celebrates the most influential and engaging professionals on LinkedIn.

Key Points from the Episode

  • Entrepreneurship pathway in oncology pharmacy with Dr. Kelley Carlstrom. [0:00]
  • Career transition and business ideas for pharmacists. [2:34]
  • Starting a business in oncology and program design. [6:24]
  • Building a successful oncology pharmacy business model. [12:27]
  • Transitioning from consulting to entrepreneurship with a pharmacist. [18:00]
  • Leveraging clinical skills for business growth. [23:40]
  • LinkedIn usage and its impact on pharmacy businesses. [28:37]
  • Oncology pharmacy roles and opportunities. [36:07]
  • Oncology pharmacy training and business model. [42:27]
  • Entrepreneurship and decision-making with KelleyCPharmD. [49:35]

Episode Highlights

“You know, once you have a problem, it’s great. But then you have to figure out what’s the best way to solve it both for the both for the customer and for you. Like you don’t want to build a business that you don’t want to run.” – Kelley Carlstrom [7:44]

“So I think when the number one thing I would encourage pharmacists to do is to connect with people that are interesting to them, not just you know, other pharmacists.” -Kelley Carlstrom [30:20]

“When I got into entrepreneurship, I realized you need to make decisions very quickly. And if you’re always second guessing yourself, it’s not you’re you’re not going to be successful.” -Kelley Carlstrom [48:11]

“There are no bad decisions in entrepreneurship. It’s just you have to get off of the table and start walking and start doing things. And that’s how you learn.” – Kelley Carlstrom [48:55]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Corrie Sanders  00:00

Hi YFP community, Corrie Sanders here, host of the Pharmacy Innovator segment of the YFP Podcast. Pharmacy Innovators is designed for pharmacists navigating the entrepreneurial journey. In this series we feature stories and strategies that help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs. Today we have Dr. Kelley Carlstrom, known on social media as the oncology pharmacist. Kelley is the CEO and founder of Kelley C PharmD, an education company that fills a considerable gap in Clinical Oncology training. Dr. Carlstrom is a board certified oncology pharmacist that has worked in a variety of traditional and non traditional settings. This includes a large academic medical center, small community cancer centers, and then the healthcare technology and startup space. Kelley is also a prolific content creator and was recently invited to be part of the LinkedIn top voices team, an invitation only program that recognizes and celebrates the most influential and engaging professionals on LinkedIn. Dr. Carlstrom is a returning guest the podcast and was featured in August of 2021 on episode 217. We will link to that episode in the show notes as it provides great detail about Kelley’s background and pharmacy journey. Today we speak to Kelley about the timing for her jump from employee to entrepreneur and dive into her unique business model how her business has evolved over time, and opportunities in oncology for both Kelley and the pharmacy profession as a whole. Kelley share some great lessons surrounding monetization of her expertise as an oncology pharmacist, to include the value of various communities and reflections on decision making both inside and outside of clinical practice. Now that we’ve set the stage, let’s dive into today’s main event. Our incredible guest, Dr. Kelley Carlstrom. Kelly, welcome back to the podcast. It’s great to have you.

Kelley Carlstrom  01:46

Thank you so much. I’m excited to chat again.

Corrie Sanders  01:49

Well, I know that you and Tim recorded in August of 2021. And during that time, you guys did a great job of really diving into your educational background, your pharmacy career path, what we want to really dive into today is that entrepreneurship pathway, and what exactly that looked like for you when that started in your career. And we’ll get into some details about your mindset and growth. So let’s start with really diving in to the consulting portion of your career. Before that you were in a large academic medical center, you were in an outpatient oncology clinic, and then you transitioned into consulting. So let’s talk about that consulting. How did you find that job? What important mindset shifts happened during that job? And how did that ultimately set you up for success with where you are now?

Kelley Carlstrom  02:34

Yeah, I love talking about this transition, because it was completely unexpected. In my career, I thought that I would be in a clinical practice role my entire career, you know, I spent a decade training in school and in residency to get that type of role I was in, and then all of a sudden, I was I was entertaining, moving out of that role. And I really had a lot of doubts and a lot of conversations with myself during that time about whether I really wanted to do that. And what it came down to was me kind of thinking through what’s the worst that could happen. You know, it sounded like a really interesting opportunity, this consulting. And being in clinical practice was kind of the safe bet. Like I knew I would always have a job that would be very, very comfortable. And consulting was a complete black box. I knew nothing about it. I didn’t really know what they were hiring me to do, which was a Cerner implementation, I had always worked with Epic in the hospitals I worked at. So it was very scary. And I just decided to jump in and see what doors it opened. And it opened a lot of doors both. From a job perspective, and like networking perspective, but also a lot of doors kind of, for me personally, kind of my mindset, how I thought about how I thought about where my career would be, because when I first started consulting, you know, they were paying me very well. And I didn’t, I had never seen a pharmacist in that type of role where I was there, essentially, for the knowledge I had. I wasn’t doing any of the building in the EMR. They had a whole team of analysts that were building, they were hiring me as that clinician, that liaison between their clinical end users, their doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and their Cerner builders, they needed somebody in between to kind of talk both languages. And that was really the first time I’d heard about that role. And that that led me to see like, man, there’s a lot of skills pharmacists have that we don’t talk about, we don’t recognize, we don’t market. And that’s that’s what really opened my eyes to thinking, oh, there’s a lot more out here that I could, that I could dive into. And so that’s how my business ideas kind of got started. I started having a whole bunch of ideas about how how else I could solve problems besides this kind of one specific problem I was solving during my consulting contract. And over time, I just started to iterate on that and lean into it. And it’s been a very interesting journey.

Corrie Sanders  05:06

Yeah, it’s great to hear you say that. Pharmacists aren’t very, don’t realize maybe some of the clinical or some of the skills that we had outside of our clinical training and our knowledge. And it really takes seeing the profession through a different lens to maybe bring that into fruition, and shine a light on some of the skills that we have that have nothing to do with clinical practice. But really what role we play in a team based care model, whether that’s from, you know, an electronic EMR perspective, or whether that’s from a direct patient care perspective. So I love that you highlighted that.

And then Kelley, let’s talk about how the company that you have now started to build off of that consulting practice. So you said you started getting some ideas for your company. What did that look like? Did you have people coming to you with specific questions? Were you getting questions from the company itself about oncology? How did the idea for your business really set a seed during that time?

Kelley Carlstrom  06:04

I was getting a lot of questions on LinkedIn for years where I’ve been active for years, but I honestly wasn’t paying that close attention, which is funny now that I look at it in hindsight. You know, you don’t pay attention until you start paying attention, right? And then the light bulb goes off. And you’re like, Man, why didn’t I think about this years ago? But I had a lot of ideas about about starting a business. You know, it was I had stumbled into a couple podcasts, a couple heard of people heard a couple of people talking about entrepreneurship. And I’m like, Okay, that sounds interesting. But I didn’t really there. This was kind of the beginning of the, of the pharmacy entrepreneur, kind of wave, if you will. And so there wasn’t a lot of people talking about it. So I had a couple ideas that were that were ruminating in my brain. But just all of a sudden, one day, I was answering a LinkedIn message. And everybody asked me the same question on LinkedIn, which was, hey, I’m new to oncology. You talk a lot about oncology on LinkedIn, can you point me to somewhere where I can learn it? And I was like, and I always I got this question so much, I had a copy, paste kind of ready to go of like, five resources that I send to everybody. And just one day, and I’m like, I’ve been answering the same question for a long time. Obviously, there’s a gap here, these people are not residency trained, they’re not going to go back to do residency. They’re working in cancer centers, taking care of cancer patients. And they should be, you know, they want to be better. And they should be supported in this. And I’m like, Alright, I’ve got the training, got the knowledge, how could I help them do this? And that that kind of started started the flow of of a million ideas. You know, once you have a problem, it’s great. But then you have to figure out what’s the best way to solve it both for the both for the customer and for you. Like you don’t want to build a business that you don’t want to run. Right? So I spent a lot of time at the beginning trying to figure out how the heck am I going to do this? Because oncology is giant.It’s not like where you can like set it and forget it, I’ll record a couple of videos and sell that and people will learn oncology. No, we get new drugs approved practically every week. It’s a it’s an ongoing thing. So it took a lot of design upfront.

Corrie Sanders  08:19

And let’s talk about that design. So when you touched base with Tim, it was almost three years ago now. And you were just about to launch the ELO program, which is enjoy learning oncology. So I know that that was going to be your first program within your business. How has that developed? What did that look like when you first put that out? And then ultimately, where are you today with the services and the products that you offer?

Kelley Carlstrom  08:46

Yeah, when I talked to him, I can’t believe it’s been three years – I feel I feel like I’m my mother when I say where does the time go? It goes by so fast. But I remember when I talked with Tim, I was at I was I had just finished my pilot version of my program. So when I had sold the pilot, I had reached out to the the people on my email list that I had expressed interest and I said, Hey, I’m gonna build this thing. It’s not built yet. I’m gonna build this plane as we’re flying it. And I had eight pharmacists that raised their hand that said, Yep, well, we’ll buy into this program, even though you have nothing built Kelley. I literally was building it as they were going through the content. And I took their feedback. And I took the lessons learned from that and kind of made changes and made iterations to it. And that’s kind of when I talked to Tim was when the the first official iteration was was rolling out. And it’s pretty much been the same from a structure perspective since then. So I’m going into the fourth year of that program. And it’s been when I think about the structure, you know, for pharmacists that are thinking about starting something, I really spend time take the time to spend time to really think about how you’re going to format the services that you offer. And one, you obviously want to think about it from the client perspective, like, how is the is the service that you’re offering, or the product you’re offering going to best suit the customer? But also, from your perspective. How are you going to design it? So, one, it doesn’t take up all of your day, because as a business owner, you actually have to run the business, which is, sounds like logical, right? But at the beginning, you don’t really think about how many kind of back end, if you will, things there are, you know, not just kind of bookkeeping, like the standard things. But also, marketing takes up a big chunk of my time and relationship building and just client support, customer success, things like that, like they, that takes a lot of time. So when I was building the program, I really thought about one, one challenge I have is oncology is rapidly changing. So I had to figure out how am I going to keep up with this in terms of content? And then two is, am I who’s going to do it? Is it me, or am I going to get other people to do it. And so I settled on a model where I hire other expert pharmacists to support the lesson content. So at any given time, I have 24 expert oncology pharmacists that are in my program, because I have 24 lessons. And they’re the ones that are reviewing the content, kind of making sure it’s updated. They’re the ones that are supporting my clients with clinical questions. And that takes that pressure off of me. But it also frees me up to do the operation side behind it, you know, I need to find those experts, I need to get them the content to review, I need to review their content, because the program is through my lens, it’s my kind of IP. And so just because an expert says we should include something doesn’t mean I necessarily include it, it’s just, you know, I know my customers very well I know what stage they’re at. And so I everything has to kind of filter through what the what the lenses of my client and my particular program. So when you’re designing your your business and your offers, I think it’s really important to think about all those different steps and not get bogged down in the really fun kind of sexy things at the beginning, which is like, Oh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna offer something for sale, it’s like, well, you have to, you have to really think thoughtfully about it and not not kind of box yourself in.

Corrie Sanders  12:27

And I want to highlight a couple of things that you said, especially at the beginning there about one, you had a very small cohort to start. You at eight pharmacists. And you were learning as you said, you were building the plane while you’re flying it, I think that that is instrumental to, it does not have to be a perfect business model. And it’s not going to be a perfect business model. And it is going to evolve over the course of time. So just getting started and realizing that yes, there’s going to be so many modifications and iterations of different things along the way. But all you really need is that small cohort or client base to launch yourself and to figure out what you need and the feedback and the evolution of a business. So I think that that’s really important to hold on is that it is going to not be perfect from the start. And you’re not going to have 100% market share or analysis from the second that you started your own company that will evolve over time. So let’s explain that that business model a little more just because I want listeners to really understand how valuable the business model that you’ve built is. And I think you’ve done such a great job. I mean, honestly, you are one of the pharmacy pioneers and really monetizing your clinical expertise. So you have these programs, and they’re sold directly to pharmacists that are practicing oncology. And how do they buy into that? Are they buying into each lesson individually? Are they buying into packages? Have you tiered them over time? Has that changed over time? What is ultimately the product that the consumer is buying?

Kelley Carlstrom  13:56

Yeah, great question. I have a essentially, I have a signature program, and I have a couple tiers to it. But I have one kind of main tier, one main offer that I want to sell. And the reason I want to sell it, it’s called my ELO Collaborative. The reason I want to sell it is because I know pharmacists get the best benefit from that particular program. When I was for and that’s that’s the one I’ve been building since my since my beta, my pilot project. And when I started selling it, I got people that would reach out to me and say, Hey, I don’t I don’t want this big program. I just want to do the content. And I’ll go through it on my own. And so I do have like a DIY path where people can access the program content, but they can’t access the experts in the program where which is where you can ask questions and get support and kind of hear, hear the experts talk through those real world nuances which are so important in oncology. And so that came about because people were asking the market was literally he asking me to sell them something. So that’s great when that happens, but I think you really do also need to know, how do you get your customers the best outcome, because at the end of the day, if they’re buying into your program or service, and they’re not getting an outcome, they’re not going to talk about you, you’re not going to have that word of mouth, which you do need and is beneficial in any type of business. So I think really, really honing in on on what that offer is. Because if you have a lot of offers, it’s hard to focus on one particular one. So I do have tiers to my main offer. And then over time, I’ve, I’ve considered other kind of smaller offers that I’m always kind of experimenting with, which I think is a really important part of entrepreneurship is experimentation, which I didn’t really understand. At the beginning, I wish I had done more of it initially. It’s easy to get kind of stuck in, like, Oh, this is what so and so guru says, or this is what some other entrepreneur’s doing, I’m going to I’m going to do it exactly for my business. But that’s our businesses, everybody, every business is different, particularly healthcare, clinician based businesses, I have found are very different, like marketing tactics don’t work the same as they do for, you know, other types of businesses. So I think experimentation is really important. But so I’ve got that name program, I’ve got tiers to that program, I also have some individual courses that I’m now starting to sell, I’m actually rolling those out now. And I also do, I also offer like one-to-one mentorship matching. So pharmacists that want to work one-to-one with an experienced oncology pharmacist, kind of like a preceptor and a residency where you can talk with them about maybe a QI project, or maybe you want to change roles, and you need to create a case presentation to present at an interview and you want some help with that. I also do some matching with things like that, but at the core of my business is this ELO collaborative program. That’s what I’m known for. And I help I help pharmacists that are working in oncology today, develop their baseline knowledge, and that’s a very clear kind of avatar or, or target client as well, you know. When I started, I was pretty broad. And I included people that were interested in oncology. But that is challenging, because if you’re not working in oncology today, and you’re trying to learn this really complex field, it’s much harder because you’re not applying it at work. So I would encourage listeners also to think, who is your best fit client, and it feels counterintuitive to narrow and to niche down. But it’s actually the best thing for a small business is be super, super clear. Because when people come across my website, when they come across my LinkedIn, when they meet me at a conference, it’s it’s very clear who I helped. And when it’s clear, that means other people can refer me very easily.

Corrie Sanders  18:00

And that is such an important point. I also love that you talk about experimenting a little bit. And not only using and leveraging experimenting to get to that target audience. But there’s no wrong and experimenting as an entrepreneur, trying to figure out who your ultimate end user is how that changes over time. And then it sounds like you’re doing a great job of also getting feedback from your clients to make sure that you’re providing the services that they want, you’re providing the services that they paid for. And that ultimately, you know, what they’re purchasing is, what they’re getting, and how you can help fill some more gaps and some more needs based off of those responses to I think that’s really great. So Kelly, I want to step back a little bit further. So we talked about the nuances of your business, and the tears and how that’s evolved over time. Let’s talk about the transition from that consulting role to ultimately stepping out and having your own business. Was there something that was very black and white, where the contract ended? And then you decided, Oh, this is the perfect time that I’ll do that. Were you kind of you know, one foot in each camp where you were doing both of them simultaneously, and then you eventually made the jump? What did that transition ultimately look like for you?

Kelley Carlstrom  19:12

Yeah, I straddled a lot for a long time. And I think I think most pharmacists could probably appreciate the fact that I was very risk averse. When I was in clinical practice. I think a lot of pharmacists are it’s probably a bias for who they let into pharmacy school or at least did when I applied you know, it’s just a natural tendency to be like, this is risky, I don’t want to do it. But when I jumped into that consulting role that kind of gave me that initial like zing if you will, of what it felt like to take a risk and it didn’t, it wasn’t terrible. Like alright, I survived this risk and I got a lot of benefit from it. So that that led me to think okay, what’s the next next risk I should take? Now with that said, I still I was very cautious at the beginning because I had so many ideas. I knew zero about business. Like in my pharmacy program, we had that classic, you know, business course, which was really an independent pharmacy course. So I didn’t take it because I wasn’t interested in it. So I knew nothing about business. And I was really nervous at the beginning, like, I don’t know anything about running this business. So I didn’t want to invest a lot of money into it, I was willing to invest my time, kind of my sweat equity, if you will. And that’s what I did. I had like, all the free tools, my email tool was free. I did pay, I did invest for some business coaching upfront, but for the most part, I tried to spend as little as possible until I validated the idea and people were paying me money. And then when that when I got that validation, and I started investing more, I realized, okay, if I can continue my day job and have the revenue, the income from that supporting my life, and anything extra that I make from my business is you know, is I don’t need to pay myself, I can reinvest it in the business. So that first pilot that I ran, I didn’t, I made zero money, I lost money on it, actually. But that didn’t matter to me, because I was getting a lot of feedback. And I was like validating the idea. And so I kept working I was I did consulting for almost three years. So during the pandemic, I actually had the opportunity to take a role in a in a startup. So a healthcare tech startup that was building oncology software tools for clinicians and for patients. And so what that allowed me to do was continue to straddle those things, I was building my business while I was still making a full time salary. And I did that for about a year and a half, and then transitioned into part time. So I actually got recruited out of that role. And this is a good little side caveat about LinkedIn. I always talk about how great LinkedIn is. And I will continue forever talking about it because pharmacists do not use it enough, we need to use it more. But I got recruited. And I was not looking for a job. But somebody reached out to me and said, Hey, I see you posting all this stuff, because I was posting a lot of oncology content for my marketing purposes. And he said, I want you at my company, what kind of job do you want? Essentially, essentially built me a job. And I said, well, I’m building this business, I don’t want to work full time. And he said, fine. So I got a, I got a part-time job in in a digital health company, and did that for about a year and then actually got laid off from that. So it was a lot of tech layoffs at that time, which was just about a year ago. And so that’s how I came to work full-time in my business, which honestly was a great thing. Funnily enough, when I found it funny enough, when, when I got laid off, I called a couple of people that day. And, two of them said immediately, congratulations. I said, I’m not sure you’re supposed to say that when somebody gets laid off. But they knew I was building this business and they were like, you’re ready to just like try it out and see how it goes full time. So I have now been full time in my business for about a year. So you know, suffice to say this, the summary of that is that I didn’t I didn’t want to go full-time right away. Because one I didn’t know if it could support me from a revenue perspective, I wanted to be able to invest a lot of my, my revenue back in the business, and to have it grow. And so I did, I straddled two, two roles for gosh, three and a half years or so before I went full time.

Corrie Sanders  23:40

But I think it’s important to recognize that that’s maybe the best path for most pharmacists that are risk averse. I think there’s a lot of validity to you know, jumping off a cliff and investing in yourself and sinking or swimming to see if you survive. But ultimately, that can have a lot of dark ends if you haven’t really pivoted to a model, if you haven’t established proof of concept, if you don’t have the confidence in yourself yet that you’re going to be able to run whatever business it is. So I love that you straddled both. To be honest, it sounds like you really built up something that was manageable and workable and scalable during that time, while you were you know, had one foot in each camp. And then eventually, when you were congratulated for getting laid off from your job. You already had that experience. And you already had that model and you already had that confidence to move forward with your business. So I love that. And I think that that’s a great growth trajectory and maybe a more realistic growth trajectory for some of our more risk averse pharmacists. So Kelley, what resources outside of LinkedIn and we’ll get into LinkedIn in a little bit because I want to give you some time to talk about this platform that you love so much. But outside of LinkedIn, what resources did you use? Was there any tapping into a small business community in your area? Did you have any coaches? Did you really just boot strap this thing independently all by yourself, or were there some outside community entities that helped you better leverage your clinical skill set and set up a business model?

Kelley Carlstrom  25:10

Well, nothing is ever done by yourself. There’s always a huge team, whether they work for you or not, but there’s always people that you lean on. And so my initial resource was the Medi-preneurs Conference, which I went to back in 20, I think it was early 2019. And that’s where I kind of brought like a bunch of ideas I had, and the education business is what kind of, you know, took root, if you will, in some of the conversations that we had, and that that’s what I ran with after that. But I have a software idea, actually, when I first start when I thought that was going to be what I what I went with at the beginning. So that’s a great tool I did, I did use some of the Score, resources. So everybody probably has a Score chapter near them. This is I forget exactly what it stands for. But it’s essentially retired executives that are that help the small business community and it’s a free service in your local community. I also did work with a couple different business coaches. And you know, that’s a whole conversation in and of itself, too. I’ve worked with many different coaches over over the past couple years. But I did work with a couple in the beginning that kind of helped me get some traction helped me understand the basics. So you know, I knew nothing about running a business. So business coaches, at least got me a little bit on the right fit about the right foot about finding like product market fit and who my clients would be and how I would need to talk about it. I also listened to a ton of podcasts. So when I was traveling for consulting, I was I was on a plane, like a lot. Listen to tons and tons of podcasts. And honestly, most of them were way over my head. I remember listening and them talking about acronyms or saying words that I had no idea what they meant. And I just kept listening and kind of absorbing just kind of throughout osmosis. Honestly, like I wasn’t taking notes or anything, I was just listening and seeing what little nuggets I could catch on to what strings I could pull a little bit and learn a little bit more. I didn’t do a lot of reading of business books at that time. But that’s something I use now I listen to a lot of audiobooks or read business books, I have a long list and in my queue of anytime somebody recommends a book, I drop it in my queue whether or not I can get to it right away

Corrie Sanders  27:28

I do the exact same!

Kelley Carlstrom  27:30

You can only read so many at a time. But and honestly something that I think we don’t value enough in pharmacy or not, I guess not that we don’t value enough, but we don’t know enough about it our communities. So how can you find a group of like minded people that are working towards a similar goal, so you all can learn from each other. I’ve been in multiple different communities. And I would encourage pharmacists to look outside of pharmacy communities as well. Because pharmacy, although pharmacy entrepreneurs and pharmacy, pharmacist run businesses alike, depending on your business, if you’re selling, you know, like a service to anybody. But if you’re marketing to healthcare clinicians, I think it’s really easy to get in a silo and forget about some of the general business practices. And I’ve learned so much from just a communities of regular entrepreneurs, you know, often I’m the only pharmacist in those groups. Sometimes there’s other healthcare clinicians, but usually, most of them are not in healthcare. And I’ve learned a lot from them.

Corrie Sanders  28:37

And I think that that’s an important differentiation, too. So you’re still learning a lot, but your end user is a pharmacist. So you can ultimately relate because you guys are seeing practice through the same lens, you’re seeing your service and your products through the same lens. But I think that’s even more important if you’re selling to non-pharmacists, is embedding yourselves in these communities and learning how to speak business to people that aren’t pharmacists or just how to speak business in general, right, like, we, one, don’t sell ourselves appropriately, normally, for what we can do as pharmacists. But really having to see your business outside of that pharmacy lens is something that I think you’re alluding to, and then I certainly found very helpful is having that communication line and having that vernacular to be relatable to someone that doesn’t know anything about your profession for the most part. So Kelley, let’s talk about the LinkedIn community. Because you’ve mentioned that a couple times throughout our conversation already, I want to give you a chance to really explain how LinkedIn has shaped and changed the trajectory of your business and your personal development. And then let’s talk a little bit to about the elite community that you’re a part of in LinkedIn and how you got invited into that.

Kelley Carlstrom  29:45

Sure, yeah, LinkedIn is, I think people underestimate it because they don’t know what it’s about. You know, I remember when I first joined, which was back in 2014, early 2014. And I remember looking at the feed and thinking like, oh, okay, this is sort of like the Facebook feed. But I didn’t see anything particularly interesting. So I’m like, this is kind of boring. Why am I here? And the reason I didn’t see anything interesting is because I didn’t have a network that I was connected with. So LinkedIn didn’t know what information to share with me. So I think when the number one thing I would encourage pharmacists to do is to connect with people that are interesting to them, not just you know, other pharmacists, but sure, other pharmacists. But also people that are, you know, if you’re interested in the technology space, you know, connect with technology leaders connect with if you’re in managed care to connect with people, you know, that are in that space that talk about problems and solutions in that space, because that means your feed is going to be interesting to you. So once I’ve been building up my, my network, they’re on LinkedIn for many years, I started to get much more engaged, because I saw interesting things, I connected with interesting people. And again, that’s where I got recruited into that consulting role, actually, the consulting role in the digital health role. So I’ve always, I’ve always known that that’s where people find me. But the key is, you have to be active. And what I mean by active is, you have to log in pretty regularly. I always chuckle when I send people a message, and I get a response, like three months later. And they say, sorry, I don’t really log in that often. And I’m like, okay, that’s, that’s fine, if you would, if you don’t want to do that, but you’re not going to be able to use LinkedIn, for the way that it’s been intended to be used, which is to have you be seen, and for you to see others and you have to log in, and you have to engage pharmacists are not engagers. We, we are lurkers by default, and by lurkers. I mean, you read the content, but you don’t click the Like button, you don’t message people, you don’t write comments, just lurk on other people’s posts. And I know this to be true, because I go to conferences, and people say, Kelley, I love your content! And I have no idea who they are. Because they never put a comment, they never send me a message, they just lurk on my information, which is fine. I mean, it’s free content I’m putting out there, but you’re I just had a post this week or last week about it where you know, those that those that speak up, stand up, like they’re the ones that if you’re saying if you’re putting yourself out there, and you’re interacting, and you’re commenting that you’re gonna get more kind of recognition, more help, like people are much more likely to respond to a message and answer a question you have when you’re when you’ve already engaged with your content previously. So I think those are the those are the big things like login regularly and really engage, even if it puts you out of your comfort zone, which it will in the beginning. But but push yourself, push yourself, you know, you don’t have to write this huge diatribe. Just write you know, think about one sentence comment on somebody’s post that’s insightful or something from your experience that could help not only the person that posted it, but also somebody else that comes across that post, you know, hey, think about this perspective, or this is what I have seen in practice when I’ve seen this happen that that goes a long way on LinkedIn. So that’s how I’ve used it, I use it today. I do I post a lot of content. So I post Monday through Friday. For our aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs, I would not recommend starting there. It is a lot. I worked my way up to that. I first started posting infrequently, then I was posting once a week, then twice a week, then three days a week. And then when I went full time last year, I started posting five days a week, but content creation is is a whole is a whole thing. It’s a whole beast. It takes a lot. It takes a lot of time and effort to do it. So don’t don’t start there. But that’s how I that’s how I present on LinkedIn. I also do a lot of outreach. I connect with a lot of pharmacists, both individual pharmacists working in oncology and not, I connect with other healthcare leaders. And I use it to help not only kind of pharmacists find my program, because that’s a marketing effort that I’m putting in. I want pharmacists working in oncology that are new to oncology to see my content and recognize that I can help them learn this complex specialty. But I’m also using it to spread the word about oncology pharmacists. You know, I get a lot of people that comment on my posts to say, Oh, I didn’t realize oncology pharmacists could do that. And that that’s kind of a much more broad profession expansion when when people outside of our profession start recognizing what we can do. So I enjoy having that impact as well and that comes with when you have the ability to reach more people. So that’s how I use LinkedIn kind of on the regular and then you mentioned the group I’m a part of, which is called LinkedIn Top Voices. And this is an invite program, an invite only program that LinkedIn extends to people that are that produce a lot of content that is helping users of LinkedIn. And so I was invited into this program in January of this year, which is super exciting. It’s pretty it’s it is like, I think less than .5% of LinkedIn users are in this program. And what I have learned, from I’ve actually learned a lot about LinkedIn from being in this program just a few months. And what I’ve learned is that they it’s different than other social media platforms, they want their users of the LinkedIn platform to get better. They’re invested in helping professionals get better at their jobs, learn and develop themselves as they want people on the platform that are sharing content, that will help the users do that. So that’s how I got invited because I share a lot of content that helps oncology pharmacists get better at their jobs and develop themselves.

Corrie Sanders  36:07

And it’s great to certainly be rewarded for putting so much time into the platform and effort and energy over the past 10 years. And again, that’s something that was not recognized overnight, you gradually worked your way up from just sporadically posting to a couple times a week to every day, Monday through Friday. So I think that’s something too, that maybe entrepreneurs will lean into LinkedIn very, very hard at the beginning of their journeys, or maybe there’s a maybe they actually don’t lean into it at all. But really realizing what you can do with that platform. If you use it to the maximum extent if you’re cultivating a feed that provides you a voice and provides you information that’s relevant to your business, or relevant to your specialty area. There’s certainly a learning curve with LinkedIn. And there’s certainly a way that you can make the platform much more valuable to you than I think the average pharmacist realizes. So that’s great to hear that you’re being rewarded for the time and the effort that you put into the platform too. So Kelley, let’s talk a little bit now about what oncology is going to look like in the future. You are in the depths of oncology, you are the oncology pharmacist, as you’re known on LinkedIn. So what do you see for oncology in the future? And what do you see the roles for pharmacy specifically in oncology, and the next couple of years? So specifically for this question, I’m thinking of pharmacists that may or may not know if they want to dabble in oncology, or maybe they were voluntold to now be a part of an oncology program. Like where do you think the trajectory of oncology and pharmacy and oncology is going?

Kelley Carlstrom  37:43

I like voluntold. I have a lot of clients that kind of fell into oncology. I actually didn’t like oncology at school. It was not where I expected to be. And I didn’t get into it until my grandmother developed leukemia when I was a P4 student on rotation. So there’s kind of two components of this question. I guess there’s like the, the what types of jobs will there be, and like the tactical pieces, and then the outlook of, you know, where’s oncology pharmacy going? So the outlook is, is that it’s growing? It, I mean, it’s really the best specialty if we think about it. Yes, I’m biased, but it’s totally the best specialty for many reasons. Because we have the most drugs approved, we have the most clinical trials, we have arguably the most expensive drugs. And that means that and the most complex drugs, which all means that the pharmacist has a really important role in helping manage costs and toxicities from all these drugs that are hitting the market. So there’s definitely going to be lots of drugs, lots of opportunities, lots of jobs in oncology. And the types of jobs that there are and will be, are pretty vast. I don’t think people recognize how many different types of opportunities there are. So certainly, there are many positions in patient care. And this is where a lot of the jobs are right now. And that is because we are having similar burnout issues in oncology pharmacy as the rest of the profession is having lots of our experienced staff are leaving clinical practice, which is a bummer. Honestly. I think it’s great for them, because everybody’s entitled to you know, do jobs that,  do work that fulfills them, but it’s also leaving a big gap in patient care. And even if we can fill that gap with bodies, which we do, and they are all like centers are almost always recruiting and hiring for oncology positions. What what the missing piece is that we’re losing people with experience. So when somebody with 15 plus years walks out the door and they hire somebody with a couple of years, even if they’re residency trained, that’s a big gap in knowledge and experience that’s leaving. So I think that’s that’s a challenge we’re all facing and in all the oncology conferences we’re talking about it ad nauseam, because we haven’t figured out how to stem this kind of bleeding, if you will. So there’s lots of opportunity in patient care both in community cancers, in academic centers, inpatient, outpatient, individual private practices, even though there’s not a ton of those around anymore, there still are plenty. There are also patient care roles or specialty pharmacies. So this is particularly good for pharmacists in the retail community setting that want to do something a little bit different. Specialty Pharmacy is an excellent transition. Actually just heard about an opportunity in California where they, they ideally want somebody with a retail background, who also has an interest in oncology. They’re willing to do training in oncology, because they have legal requirements where they need a pick to dispense oral drugs and this particular legal situation, but they’re dispensing oncology drugs. So they want that retail background, but you need some, you know, they’re, they’re dealing with these complex drugs. So there’s a lot of opportunities there, we’ve got opportunities in managed care and the payer space. So think about every time you send a prescription, and it needs a prior authorization, those people on the other end at the insurance company that are dealing with those prior authorizations, they often have very little oncology training, which is not fun for getting approved complex oncology drugs, because we’re talking to these people that don’t know anything about oncology. And they’re the ones that are saying yes or no. So those people need oncology training. And there’s, there’s lots almost every oncology drug I feel like needs a prior auth these days. So a lot, there’s a lot of opportunities in managed care. There are certainly jobs in pharma. As with every specialty. There are jobs in tech, like I said, I worked in on the tech side of oncology for many years. And there’s there’s becoming more and more kind of non-traditional roles, I do get a lot of people that reach out asking about remote oncology jobs. There is not a ton, but there are some, there are some at companies like McKesson, for example, where they do still have patient interaction, but they also they also get to, you know, have the flexibility that comes from from being in a remote in a remote position. So lots of opportunity, lots of different types of roles. Again, this is why oncology is the best specialty. Yeah,

Corrie Sanders  42:27

I mean, I think you nailed the, or you hit the nail on the head with the funds are there. Unfortunately, cancer diagnosis is increasing. So the diagnostic component is there. And it’s really just going to be a never ending game, it seems of filling positions for a growing specialty area. So like, as you said, I think there’s a ton of opportunity across various different continuums in the care spectrum, for for people to jump into oncology, even if they don’t necessarily have the experience. And I also love that you said that you didn’t like oncology in school, I’m sure a lot of people will relate to the fact that oncology is a beast of a module in school. And it’s very, very intimidating. So comforting to know that there’s people like you that are creating content and creating different products that people can buy to bridge that gap between what was taught in school and what’s needed in clinical practice. I think that’s such a beautiful business model. So looking at your business model, specifically, what’s in the future for you? It seems like right now you’re doing a lot of direct to consumer products and advertising. Is there any component of a business to business model moving forward? What do you think the evolution of your business is looking like over the next couple years?

Kelley Carlstrom  43:35

Yes, I would love to, to continue to work with institutions. So I have started working with some institutions that enroll their staff in my program. So that’s definitely a focus as well. And that’s because, you know, they’re hiring people without experience, but they also need them to do the job. And what I have found from all centers, I talked to this, they have a very good onboarding, technical process. You know, when somebody’s newly hired, they show you the EMR, they tell you the workflow, this is how, you know, this is how we do this thing here. Nobody gives clinical training. They kind of expect you to learn that on the job or on your own, which I’ll tell you doesn’t work. There’s there’s not enough hours in the day to do it at work. You get kind of the bare mitts sure you’ll get comfortable with some of the drugs, but you won’t understand breast cancer. You won’t understand, well, why is the doctor blowing through treatment parameters for this drug, but not this drug? Those are things you have to learn from a clinical perspective, from a disease perspective. And so institutions are recognizing that they need to support their staff better. And I’ll tell you the main reason is because turnover is expensive to them. You know, I don’t think we realize as pharmacists how much money it costs an institution when you leave. Not only do they have to pull another FTE to cover that that role that you’re leaving, which leaves a gap open somewhere else that and they have to do that for however long the hiring processes and right now the hiring process is long because everybody’s hiring oncology pharmacists and they can’t find people. But then they have to onboard that person. So it takes months for somebody to get up to speed. So it is a it’s like tens of thousands of dollars for people to, to for to recruit. So it is a huge cost savings to retain employees. That means keeping everybody happy. And and also potentially promoting from within. So I have centers that have pulled retail pharmacists, they have pulled ambulatory care pharmacists, which is a pretty good kind of matchup to oncology because they understand the am care space. And there’s actually a lot of internal medicine issues in primary care as well. And then, you know, they have to learn the oncology piece. So I think there’s a lot of financial benefit for institutions to train up their staff. So I look forward to working with with more of those. I’m always going to work with individual pharmacists, because that is honestly what fills my cup. Like there’s nothing, there’s no greater feeling than when a pharmacist reaches out to me and says, I passed the BCAP exam. Or I finally had a conversation with my doctor and didn’t feel like an idiot. Or I made a recommendation about this chemotherapy dosing and the doctor accepted it. Like, ah, those feelings just made me feel so good, because that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day. It’s not only that pharmacist’s gets that, that when and feels like they’re doing good work. But that patient is getting better care because their pharmacist feels more confident and is better educated, and I can’t ask for anything better than that.

Corrie Sanders  46:43

I hope that you can see the ripple effect that you’re creating by training these pharmacists. I mean, it’s I love that the pharmacist gratification fills your cup. But I really hope that you can see not only are you changing so many pharmacist’s lives with the business that you’ve created, but ultimately, the end user and the patient, you’re just improving care for so many more people than you could ever do alone. I love it. I love your business model. I think that it honestly could be applicable to some other specialty areas. For pharmacists that may not be an oncology, there’s certainly a way to leverage monetizing your clinical expertise in different ways and providing that to different pharmacists or other health care providers. I just think what you’ve done and what you’ve built is just something to be very proud of. So Kelley, I will end today with any advice that you would give to any budding pharmacy entrepreneurs, any lessons that you’ve learned along the way or anything that sticks out in your head that you’d like to convey to the listeners.

Kelley Carlstrom  47:39

Yeah, something that I consistently remind myself to do, which is take action. It really makes a bigger difference than then you think it will make. And I remember when I was in clinical practice, I had mentioned that I was risk averse. And for me how that played out was that I would research things to the Nth degree, you know. Whether it was a purchase I was making, whether it was a job decision, it took me months to take a consulting role, because I just kept making pro/con lists. And when I got into entrepreneurship, I realized like that that doesn’t fly, when you’re running a business, it just the time that you need to make decisions is very quick. And if you’re always second guessing yourself, it’s not you’re you’re not going to be successful. So what I would encourage people to do is have that experimenters mindset, which is I’m going to make a decision, I’m going to take some action on whatever this thing is I’m going to pull the trigger on trying out this piece of content or talking to this particular client or trying this new software tool, and then reevaluate it, like nothing is set in stone. So you can think about it a month later, six months later, and decide did that experiment work? Did that decision I made lead to anything to those clients, I was potential clients I was talking to actually buy for me? If a lot of them did great. That was a positive experiment. If they didn’t, no. That means, okay, I need to pivot and change course, it doesn’t mean it was a bad decision. There are no bad decisions in entrepreneurship. It’s just you have to get off of the table and start walking and start doing things. And that’s how you learn. I can’t tell you how many how many times I’ve done something where I’m like, Well, that was unexpected. And if it if it just took me, you know, if it took me months to make that decision, it would have taken me months to figure out that thing didn’t work or that thing didn’t work, you know, you got to make faster decisions in this world.

Corrie Sanders  49:33

And I really enjoy the experimenters mindset. I think that’s a great summary and a great way to put it and also just how you’re alluding to how we make decisions in clinical practice and how we might research decisions and how we might look into those things to the Nth degree. And maybe that shouldn’t necessarily carry over to your business mindset and how you’re running your business and entrepreneurship. Those are two very different, maybe the same skill set, but two very different applications with how you’re going to think about approaching those decision making processes and the time that you put into them. So I love that. I think that was wonderfully said. Well, Kelley, for the listeners that want to find you, they can obviously find you on LinkedIn. But is there any other way that people can find you, your website and I would love for you to also spell out your name to make sure that people get the spelling correctly. We’ll link to it in the show notes. But where else can our viewers and our listeners find you?

Kelley Carlstrom  50:26

Yeah, definitely LinkedIn. Send me a message there, please. And my website is KelleyCPharmD. So that’s Kelly, K-e-l-l-e-y C PharmD. C for my last name. Yes, my mom spelled my name that way. And I always have to spell it.

Corrie Sanders  50:44

Well, Kelley, thank you for your time. This was a wonderful conversation. I think there were a lot of great nuggets built into this conversation, a lot of great learning points that our listeners can take. So thank you again for your time. This was wonderful and we look forward to keeping pace with you and watching you as your business continues to develop.

Kelley Carlstrom  51:01

Thanks so much, I appreciate it.

[DISCLAIMER]

Tim Ulbrich  51:03

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 335: Pharmacy Innovators w/ Dr. Adam Martin Hosted by Dr. Corrie Sanders


In this Pharmacy Innovators episode, sponsored by First Horizon, Dr. Adam Martin joins Dr. Corrie Sanders to share keys to success and living at a high level.

Episode Summary

On this episode in our Pharmacy Innovators series hosted by Corrie Sanders, PharmD, we get a masterclass from Tony Robbins coach Adam Martin, PharmD.

You’ll want to get our your journal to write down the wisdom Adam shares.  He dives deep into the keys of success and living life at a higher level, emphasizing the importance of having fun in your journey to success. The message is clear: if you’re not having a blast, you might be doing it wrong.

Are you in the right environment? Are external influences steering you off course?

Success leaves clues, and Adam shares a powerful tip for achieving it quickly: proximity. The three-step mantra is simple—get close to people playing the game at the level you aspire to.

A must listen episode for everyone looking to become their best self and living life as it was intended!

About Today’s Guest

As a Tony Robbins Results Coach and Business Results Trainer, my focus is not only on where you want to be, but also on recognizing the value of the space you’re currently in—the space between where you used to be and where you desire to go. It is within this space that growth and transformation happen, and my role is to leverage the progress you’ve already made to propel you towards the results you truly deserve. I am dedicated to helping individuals achieve unprecedented levels of success and transformation, all while ensuring that the process is enjoyable and fulfilling.

Creator of The Fit Pharmacist, I host the weekly Script Your Confidence Podcast. As a doctorate in pharmacy having written multiple authored books, along with running my own speaking business and being certified as a personal trainer and nutrition consultant, I possess over a decade of experience working with high-level clients. I have honed my expertise in guiding clients towards their goals, overcoming limitations, and maximizing performance through a deep understanding of human behavior and performance. My coaching approach is results-focused, action-oriented, and tailored to the unique needs and aspirations of each client.

My clients come from diverse backgrounds, including entrepreneurs, healthcare professionals, executives, athletes, and individuals seeking personal growth and fulfillment. I am committed to creating a results-driven coaching environment where they can transform burdens into blessings by mastering the art of resourcefulness and overcoming past obstacles.

I utilize cutting-edge tools and strategies from Tony Robbins’ proven methodologies, combined with my insights and expertise from implementing his material in my own life. This combination facilitates powerful shifts and helps individuals unlock the next level of their potential.

My mission is to coach you to unlock your full potential, live a life of personal excellence, amplify your impact, and create a future that surpasses your wildest dreams.

Key Points From the Episode

  • Finding fulfillment in pharmacy careers through self-discovery and empowerment. [2:35]
  • Career changes, impostor syndrome, and the power of the mind. [6:22]
  • Overcoming obstacles to pursue pharmacy school and leadership roles. [9:31]
  • Adam Martin, a pharmacist and fitness enthusiast, shares his journey of using fitness to fuel his transformation and improve his studies in pharmacy school. [14:56]
  • Career development and non-traditional income sources. [21:55]
  • Overcoming obstacles to pursue pharmacy school and leadership roles. [9:31]
  • Adam Martin, a pharmacist and fitness enthusiast, shares his journey of using fitness to fuel his transformation and improve his studies in pharmacy school. [14:56]
  • Career development and non-traditional income sources. [21:55]
  • Pharmacy career, personal growth, and mindset. [23:48]
  • Cultivating a positive mindset in challenging situations. [28:59]
  • Adam Martin struggled with depression and anxiety, which led him to Tony Robbins’ work. [31:42]
  • Adam Martin emphasizes the importance of sharing one’s experiences and insights with others, even if they feel they are not good enough or have not figured everything out. [38:17]
  • Gratitude practice and its impact on mental well-being. [43:50]
  • Career growth and mindset shift from pharmacist to entrepreneur. [45:41]
  • Faith, career, and taking risks. [50:54]
  • Following God’s call to leave a job despite lack of plan or logic. [57:26]
  • Career transition from pharmacist to coach. [1:00:06]
  • Faith, career change, and pharmacy. [1:05:24]
  • Identity crisis in pharmacy profession. [1:10:51]
  • The future of pharmacy and entrepreneurship. [1:15:00]
  • Making career changes and preparing for the future. [1:19:39]
  • Adam Martin emphasizes the importance of living with integrity, serving others, and having fun in life. [1:24:36]

Episode Highlights

“Oftentimes we get stuck, we just get stopped by saying I don’t have the resources. I don’t know the right people. I don’t have the money. I don’t have enough time. The question isn’t resources. It’s how resourceful can you be? Because again, all you need is all you have, because all you have is within you now. And that’s a core belief. And if you have that belief, that will drive your actions. And when you take those actions by asking the right question, the quality of questions you ask will directly determine the quality of life that you live. Ask a better question, get a better answer.” –Adam Martin [27:15]

“And here’s the thing that I want to and I really want to drive home is that there are always both two things happening at the same time. A loss and a gain. With everything, even my mom passing away, that was a loss. And there was also a gain, someone doing you wrong, there’s a loss and there’s a gain, getting a raise, there’s a gain, and there’s a loss. You get to choose which of the two you focus on and what you focus on, you’ll feel because we’re focus goes energy flows.” – Adam Martin [28:21]

“It’s about facing it and choosing to see it as it is not worse than it is choosing to see it better than it is because that’s the role of a leader is see the vision while no one else may be able to and then make it the way you want to see it. That’s really leadership is all about making decisions in the hard times. And I’m not talking about being a leader position, per se, I’m talking about being the leader of your life. CEO of you. Because guess what, you get to choose what you focus on. Because there’s always both something gained and something lost at the same time. And what you feel comes from what you choose to focus on.” –Adam Martin [29:42]

“So when you think you’re not good enough to help people, you don’t have to have it all figured out. You just have to be 10% ahead of the person you’re looking to help and committed to constant and never ending improvement. So from that perspective, I wonder how many souls you can pour into, I wonder how many people you can bring hope to.” -Adam Martin [40:17]

“So if you’re in a job and that doesn’t mean I’m telling you to quit, but say could you be focusing on the wrong thing because you’re influenced by other people in your profession. Maybe you’re hanging out in the wrong Facebook groups. Maybe you need to listen to more YFP. Maybe we get more engaged in that community. Maybe you need to instead of listening to people who are complaining and have a life that you don’t want. Maybe you need to connect with people who are living a life through the integrity and character and lifestyle that you actually do want. Because success leaves clues.” Adam Martin [1:29:23]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

Corrie Sanders  00:01

Hi YFP community! Corrie Sanders here host of the Pharmacy Innovators segment of the YFP Podcast. Pharmacy Innovators is designed for pharmacists navigating the entrepreneurial journey. In this series, we feature pharmacy founder stories and strategies that help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs. Today we featured Dr. Adam Martin, known on social media as the Fit Pharmacist. Adam is a pharmacy entrepreneur that recently transitioned out of the retail space after over a decade of practice. Adam has worked with pharmacy schools and organizations across the world on leadership and branding careers since becoming the first pharmacist within the National Speakers Association in 2019. This is the same year that he was recognized as the most influential pharmacist in the profession. Dr. Martin is now a Tony Robbins results coach in 2023. And our conversation is rooted in fitness, faith and finance. He shares many inspirational life sentiments and lessons along the way. Grab a journal and please enjoy my conversation with Dr. Adam Martin.

[SPONSOR MESSAGE]

Tim Ulbrich  01:04

Does saving 20% for a down payment on a home feels like an uphill battle. It’s no secret that pharmacists have a lot of competing financial priorities, including high student loan debt, meaning that saving 20% for a down payment on a home may take years. We’ve been on a hunt for a solution for pharmacists that are ready to purchase a home loan with a lower down payment and are happy to have found that option with First Horizon. First Horizon offers a professional home loan option aka doctor or pharmacist home loan that requires a 3% downpayment for a single family home or townhome for first time homebuyers, has no PMI and offers a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on home loans up to $726,200. The pharmacist home loan is available in all states except Alaska and Hawaii, and can be used to purchase condos as well. However, rates may be higher, and a condo review has to be completed. To check out the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan. And to start the pre approval process. Visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

[EPISODE]

Corrie Sanders  02:15

All right, today we’ve got Dr. Adam Martin with us. Adam, thank you for being here with the YFP community. 

Adam Martin  02:23

Happy to be here. Thank you for the opportunity. 

Corrie Sanders  02:26

So we will start things off pretty easy. Why don’t you just introduce yourself to the audience a little bit, about where you’re from and where you went to pharmacy school.

Adam Martin  02:35

Happy to. So my name is Dr. Adam Martin. I’m known as the Fit Pharmacist. So if you’ve been on social media for the last 10 years, that’s me Mr. Memes, Mr. Positivity, encouragement, how to break through all those sorts of things. And pharmacy has been an incredibly tremendous asset. For me, it’s been a huge, huge opportunity for so many things. And I’m so so grateful for it. And my journey is a little different, because I’m one of those crazy people that actually liked retail. Yes, I worked full time for 10 years in one of those big three letter companies. And I actually had fun, I actually loved it. I mean, if you weren’t there for 10 years, you must like it at some degree, right? So. So that’s kind of where my journey started. And it actually started with rejection. And that’s really what my whole brand was about. It was about encouraging people who were not qualified or didn’t feel qualified, who had some knocks down, they weren’t really set up for success, so to say. So to really encourage them that your start doesn’t mean it’s your end, to encourage you that you may not be feeling like you’re qualified, but you have all that you need. Because all you need is within you now. That you can be resourceful and actually use what was perceived as a setback as a set up for your success. And that’s exactly what the Fit Pharmacist was all about. It was about encouraging people to use what you felt was your mess, to turn it into your message to encourage others to do the same. Because all too often what I found, and what I’ve heard a lot of my clients say is that it’s there’s a lot of imposter syndrome. There’s a lot of do I even belong here? Who am I look at everyone else I feel behind? What am I doing? Do I have a chance and using those perceptions of disqualification as the exact reasons to qualify you to make an impact in people’s lives. And that’s what I started to recognize. The more I got into pharmacy, the more I got involved with social media and a blogging career and writing books and podcasting and speaking, all of which are parts of that journey. But the whole point of that was to let you know that you define what your future is. You have the pen, you get to write the story and you get to choose because the quality of your life is really two things. Its meaning and emotion. And you get to choose, is this the beginning? Or is this the end? So that’s really what what ignited me in that path of helping people that had so much talent, so much wisdom to really tap into that, and unapologetically own their fire so that they can ignite the spirit and other people to go and do the same. And I think that’s what we’re really here to do. And that’s really what is missing from pharmacy. For those who are feeling like there’s something missing in their career, in their in their passion, or maybe they feel like they don’t have one. It’s fulfillment. They may be successful, they may be making a ton of money, they may have the position, they may have all the degrees after their name. Have y’all ever met people that have more letters after their name than in their name, you know, the ones that have more degrees than a thermometer? They have all the success, but they feel empty inside. Because there’s not fulfillment. And that’s really what it is fulfillment. If you look at the word, we are meant to fill others up. And when you’re able to do that, by being willing to be known for who you truly are, the man or woman of God you were made to be, you can do that, fearlessly. Unapologetically. And when you do that, you inspire others to do the same. And that’s really why I’ve always done what I’ve done. Now I just do it on a deeper level as a full time coach working for Tony Robbins. So long story short, here we are.

Corrie Sanders  06:30

Now, there’s so many things that you said that I think we’ll touch on throughout the duration of this conversation. I mean, I think we’ll dive into impostor syndrome, I think we’ll talk about how you defined your life as meaningful throughout different chapters of your career. So let’s start with that initial rejection. Adam, when you said your career started from rejection, what did that look like for you? And then how did that transform into what you’re doing today? 

Adam Martin  06:53

100%. So, back when I knew everything about everything, as a 13 year old, I wanted to be a vet, a veterinarian, because back in the day, I have the astute wisdom that a vet was playing with puppies and getting paid for it. Until I got the bright idea to actually work at a vet hospital and see what actually a veterinarian does. And I got what you call an education, that that’s not what it is. And there’s a lot more to it. And while it was for good reasons, veterinarians put dogs to sleep almost every day. And again, while it’s for good reasons, I just couldn’t deal with that. So it wasn’t what I thought it was. And that’s the first piece of advice that I could give anyone that’s looking for a career change is getting multiple perspectives from people actually doing what you think you want to do. Because you may have your perception, but perception is not reality, especially when you don’t have any experience there. So that was the first thing that I did was I just got experience and where I thought I wanted to go. And it was right around that time. I was coming up to graduate high school. And my mom went in for a routine colonoscopy. And she had turned 50. I remember like it was yesterday and we’re filming this on a Wednesday. Ironically, it was a Wednesday. And I remember I remember it clear as day. Kissed her goodbye, went to school. I said good luck, mom. And I stayed after school in those days. And my dad picked me up after and he was never late. But he was super late that day. And I knew something wasn’t right. I got in the car, and he said mom failed her test. Now, I didn’t know this at the time. But at the point of diagnosis, she was given less than six months to live. She was they caught stage four metastatic colorectal cancer that had spread to her liver, lymph all over, all over her body. But she didn’t. She didn’t accept that. She refused that diagnosis. And she used the power of her mind and her faith to move forward through that. And she had multiple surgeries. And long story short, that’s what led me to pharmacy. Because being on so many medications, we were in the pharmacy most days of the week. And at this point in my life, I didn’t even know what a pharmacist was. We didn’t have any neighbors, no family, friends, nothing. And all I knew being in there picking up meds from a mom is that there’s the smart person in a white coat running around like a chicken with their head cut off trying to help strangers. And the more we were there, the more I saw this compassion that they had. They didn’t know us. We were strangers to them. But they treated us like we were actually family. How’s your mom doing? If you guys can’t get to the pharmacy, you’re not that far away, we’d be happy to drop it off. And it was the perfect timing that really caught this because it was a time when I didn’t know what I was going to do because I realized that I wasn’t going to be paid playing with puppies. And it was about to graduate high school so I had to figure something out. And from that modeling of just interacting with people, that’s what I wanted to do. So I had a very strong why that kept getting deeper and again, mind you at this time, I didn’t even know what a pharmacist did. I just saw this. And I said, I want to do that. So again, to the advice of the that I started to take my own advice, because success leaves clues. So I got some experience to shadow with some pharmacists. And I just saw the interaction, the impact that they had with people. And I thought this is pretty sweet. So I decided I’m going to be a pharmacist. So I did my two years and undergrad, applied to pharmacy school, I was so pumped, I had such a strong why I actually applied to three pharmacy schools, and I got rejected by every single one. And I’ll never forget it. I was sitting on my bunk bed, in my college dorm, like I had to make a decision. Like I really like thought with myself. And I was and also my undergrad advisor at the time said pharmacy is competitive, you may want to pursue and other options, consider some alternatives. And I was getting this advice. But I also had this clear why. And I was wrestling with it. I was like the the writing on the wall, the paper, the quote, “recommendations”, or to do something else, but I have this calling. And I didn’t really understand that at the time. But I decided to go for it again. So that required some summer school. That require an eating what I call some Humble Pie, retaking some classes, really doing whatever you could to up your grades to get more involved to really say I’m committed to this. So I ended up reapplying the next year. And I didn’t get in. But what I did get was waitlisted, which means we gave our offers to everyone we really want to let in. But if they say no, we’ll give you a chance. Let’s just be real. That’s what it means. Okay, so I ended up being dead last person getting into my class, and I was not going to waste the opportunity. And that light bulb clicked for me before pharmacy school started, it was like a couple days before, they have like a two day orientation. And the last thing they said is, by the way, you have to elect the president of your class. And I remember that this was 2008-2009. I still remember that moment, a light bulb went off, because all throughout like I’m an Eagle Scout, oh did all these leadership things. And I didn’t really understand what the purpose was going to be. But in that moment, it all made sense. I was born to be a class president. I didn’t even know what that meant. But I just had this again, this calling. I couldn’t even put a finger to it. So what did I do? Success leaves clues. I modeled the mentors. So I got a mentor who was a pharmacy student two years ahead of me shout out to Jimmy Gill, to attend to the hot step. This guy was awesome. I joined an organization called SNPHA, the Student National Pharmaceutical Association, which I’m a huge fan of their platform is serving the underserved. Shout out to y’all love y’all. Well, after one of the meetings, I went up to him like, Hey, man, I heard about this class president thing. And I really want to do it. But I have no clue because you have to give this five minute talk. And I don’t know what to say. And he says, Yo, this is what you do. You get up and say you’re gonna be a liaison between faculty and students. And when people hear that, they’re gonna say, Oh, he speaks French, and then they’ll vote for you. And that’s what happened. That’s what happened. So I did not waste that opportunity. That was my first like speaking gig, right? But I was so stoked. And I took that job. So seriously, I took notes, I sent weekly emails, I treated like that it was my full time job. And it was awesome. Because from that, I gained a lot of connections. I networked because I would be meeting with professors. I literally was that liaison, don’t ask me how to spell it. But I think I can say it well. But that’s what really helped me in networking initially, was stepping into that role and saying my class is counting on me. And they may not have. I hope they read the emails. But that was the identity that I adopted. And the strongest force in the human personality is the need to stay consistent in how we define ourselves. So all throughout pharmacy school, I really enjoyed that. And I ended up going to seven pharmacy conferences while I was a student. It was incredible. I met people I got to go all over the country, Florida, State of Washington all over it was so fun. And on my rotation my last year Pharmacy school, I was doing a rotation at the FDA. And I got a call from my dean. And I was like, Oh crap, what I do? But what happened was, she said, Adam, you might not know this, but every year for the graduating class, I personally give a scholarship to one male and one female who I believe is going to innovate the profession. And it’s for $10,000. I’m like wow, what a fun fact. That’s awesome. She’s like I’m picking you. So I went from being rejected saying you’re not going to get in to now you’re the most influential pharmacist in that I think that’s going to come out of your class. And again, I said, I’m not going to waste this opportunity. So what happened was, when I got into pharmacy school, I started to find this symbiotic relationship between fitness and pharmacy. And fitness for me began when my mom got diagnosed with cancer. At the time, I was bullied up into that point, most of my life, I was scrawny little kid, I was very quiet, believe it or not, yes, it did exist. But things change, right? So there’s proof positive. But what was through that time that I used fitness to really fuel my transformation. And whenever I got into pharmacy really looking to uplevel, my studies, I found that if you partied and screwed around and didn’t sleep, well, your workouts would suffer, and so would your performance in the classroom. But if you ate well, if you slept, if you did the things you knew were good for you, your workouts would be great. And your studies would also improve. So like I said, it became a symbiotic relationship. And the point of that is once I graduated pharmacy school in 2012, was right around when Instagram was happening. And my friends were like, Dude, you got to get this. And I’m like, Well, what is it? Like? Well, you just pick a name that represents what you’re about. So I was like, Okay, well, I like fitness. I’m a pharmacist, I’ll become the Fit Pharmacist. And that’s literally how it started. Then what happened was, I just started sharing stuff, things that I liked, nutrition, things like that. And when I graduated, I thought that if you’re in health care, you need to be leading by example. You’re promoting health. So you’ve got to walk the talk. And that just made sense to me. Until I realized that it wasn’t very common. Because I started to see people over time after graduation that started getting really stressed out, gaining weight all this stuff resentful. And I was like, What is going on? You’re a genius. How come you’re on the struggle bus. And they started to share with me the things that were in their way. And I started to say, oh, try this, oh, give this a try. And it started to work. So I wondered, I wonder if other people could help benefit from these tips. So I started sharing them on Instagram. And then I started to get a website, and I started to just share these little tips. And my first business was in 2013. Being a certified nutrition consultant, helping people with nutrition. As when I was going through pharmacy school, I wanted extra. So on my off block, I decided to become a certified personal trainer, which I did I pass that exam through American College of Sports Medicine, because I was doing it anyway. So I might as well use that as an asset. Right. And that helped with that first business. And the reason I tell you this, is there was a pharmacist who was starting his entrepreneurial journey, who saw that I was growing the following back in the day, I think it was like 1000 followers. He’s like, Hey, man, I’m starting my journey. I’m looking to get some traction, you have some followers? Can you like, give me a shout out or something? And I was like, well, let’s come up with this. How about how about, since you’re into fitness too, you share your fitness journey. And because I’m a dork, we’ll we’ll call it Fit Pharmacist Friday, and we’ll publish it on Friday, or just be a short little thing about how you define fitness. And we posted it. And I got five DMS in like the first hour of people saying I want to be featured, I want to be featured. And literally from that launched a four year four year blog campaign. Every Friday for four years. Pharmacist students from all over the world, it was friggin awesome. That’s really how my brand and business began, was just creating a platform, a space for people to have a voice, to feel like they mattered. So like give them a place where they can share how they could help other people who felt like they weren’t cut out for it, how they define fitness really giving their perspective of what’s important for them. And that’s really where the social media thing began. And that again, launched into, I wrote for three pharmacy magazines through the years in the United States also in South Africa, led to writing my first book, RX You, which was all about self care for pharmacists, and students grab it on Amazon, then that led to my second book, which helped pharmacy students overcome setbacks and really dominate pharmacy school. And that then led to publishing other books as well with co authoring, and launching a podcast that I still run to this day going on six years. There’s a new episode every week, and then it led to a speaking career. I became a professional speaker through the National Speakers Association. So long story short, those are the highlights but I’ll say I say all that to say, if someone tells you can’t do something, check in with yourself. Ask why am I doing this? Because if you ask how first you’ll always get overwhelmed you will always fall into what’s called the tyranny of how frustration overwhelm, and you’re just going to be stuck. That’s the maybe the right question but asked at the wrong time. The first question you want to ask is, what do I want? And get clear on it? The second question you want to ask is, why is this important? From an emotional connection? not logical. So oh, I want to do this because it’ll create a financial security for my family. That may be true, but get an emotional why to it, because he or she, who has their why can bear almost any how, once you then have a clear outcome, and you have a clear, emotionally driven reason why, then you can ask how because you’ll be pulled towards it, rather than feeling like you’re pushing all the time. And then all of that led to a coaching career. I’ve been coaching, like I said, since 2013, with nutrition, and that morphed into mindset and psychology, of really helping people get out of their own way, and live a life that was purpose driven and fulfilled on their terms, regardless of what they’ve gone through. And I’m not just picking this crap out of books, I’ve lived this stuff. I’ve coached hundreds of people through this, now 1000s, to really create a life on their terms, all over the world. And it’s really, really fulfilling. And as we’re filming this, as I mentioned, I think you’re my 13th Call today. And I mean, I’ve been up since 330. And you can hear, and I don’t even drink coffee. So it’s just fueled by passion. It’s fueled by passion. So once you get clear on those things that are really put you in a position where you can be of service to other people, because that’s really where fulfillment comes from. fulfillment is that you’re meant to fill others up. And when you can align with your God given purpose, it positions you to co mission with God. So to carry out the purposes to do that. And that’s really what I’m all about is helping people do that, too. 

Corrie Sanders  21:55

Yeah. And Adam, that is, I mean, such an inspirational story. And it’s so amazing to see how many unique facets there have been to your career. I mean, before I even dive into the next question, I just want to say I’m so I’m so sorry to hear about your mom. But it’s such a strong testament to her faith, and to your faith, to be able to take an event like that, and really changed the trajectory of your life in a very positive manner. And to be able to give back to so many others in a meaningful way. And to use that really is fuel. So I’m so sorry to hear that. But I’m so just amazed by the outcome. And I’m just I respect you so much for how you’ve turned that into something that’s so positive in your life. I think there’s a lot of different facets that I have questions about throughout your career. And the first one is you’ve you’ve dabbled in, in sports and fitness and speaking in various different engagements. What did that look like, in parallel with your community pharmacy position? So is that something that you were doing on the side while you still held this community pharmacy job? How did you split those incomes? What did the development of these supplemental non traditional incomes look like, while you were serving in that community pharmacy role? 

Adam Martin  23:10

Beautiful questions, and thank you so much for the kind words really appreciate that. And my belief is nothing has any meaning except the meaning you choose to give it. And while she was an amazing woman, still to this day, I hear people that she was a principal of a school, and she’s been gone 19 years. And still to this day, this just happened last month, I kid you not. I was at dinner with someone. And they said we were just in Florida. And we met someone we used to work with. And we mentioned your name. And they used to work with your mom, and they went on this half hour story. This happens all the time. It’s incredible. So the memory keeps going. So I really appreciate that. Thank you. And to answer your question. So I’ve I was I started full time pharmacy in 2012. I believe it was July. And actually no, it was and here’s how I know. Back then, before corporate realized that this was a liability, what we would do – and thanks to my partner for coming up with this with this idea. The partner that shared the pharmacy with me – is the idea was if we work three full time shifts, will have a week vacation every other week. So back then we would work I think it was 8am to 10pm. And we did three of those in a row. Now. I’ll be real the first couple months was rough. But after that it was normal, you adapt. So I remember it was July because that like a couple of weeks after I started the state insurance changed to the preferred insurance that my pharmacy that I worked for at the time had it. So there were about 30 to 50 transfers a day for a brand new pharmacist at a high volume store. So I remember my first full day I worked. I went at 8am and I was there until like 100-130. So that’s how I got fast at verifying prescriptions because I didn’t want to do that again. Right. To answer your question. Yes, I did this on the side. Although it wasn’t at the pharmacy. So that’s what that schedule allowed is we would do three full days. And then I would literally have a week vacation every other week, which gave me that, that bandwidth to do that. So that’s kind of how that foundation started. And again, when you’re launching a rocket, 90% of the fuel is on takeoff. So once I got the systems in place, once I got these things down, then that really through that time, then it became easier to to grow and scale that from there. So yeah, I did the writing. I did all that sort of stuff on the side on those days that I wasn’t on the bench. And then with the fitness part, yeah, I’ve been so I’m a lifetime drug free, natural bodybuilder. I know that’s an oxymoron, a pharmacist that’s drug free, but it’s true. I do tested shows. So I’ve competed four times. And I did compete four times as working as a full time community pharmacist at a high volume store. The most scripts that we did on a Monday, when I left was 651 with one pharmacist. I’ve checked in with them since I’ve left and that’s expanded dramatically. So God bless them.

Corrie Sanders  25:59

Mm hmm. And did you have any goals in mind with okay, this is something that I want to take on my own. At some point outside of a community pharmacist, were you running those things in tandem hoping to pay off student loans? Did you have any thought as to what the end goal is? Or were you just in a state of built building and growth and development? And you were just writing that out for however long you felt comfortable? Great question. So I paid off student loans very quickly, I think it was just a few years after graduation. So that was kind of over and done with. And in terms of, you know, what does this look like? Where am I going? I love being a pharmacist, I was really good at it. 20 Because of that, that growth and the impact, 2019 they had the pharmacy awards. So 2019 I was I was honored to be named the most Influential Pharmacist nationwide. So that was that was really cool. And the reason I say that is again, if someone tells you you can’t do something, you’re not cut out for it. Tada. Right. So as soon as, as long as you have that, why, and you put in that work, and you’re consistent, and you just innovate. And that’s really what my I guess you could say my secret sauce is through this process is just being obsessed with how can we do this better? And how can I be resourceful? Oftentimes we get stuck, we just get stopped by saying I don’t have the resources. I don’t know the right people. I don’t have the money. I don’t have enough time. The question isn’t resources. It’s how resourceful can you be? Because again, all you need is all you have, because all you have is within you now. And that’s a core belief. And if you have that belief, that will drive your actions. And when you take those actions by asking the right question, the quality of questions you ask will directly determine the quality of life that you live. Ask a better question, get a better answer. What can I do to be resourceful with this? Simple questions. That’s how we make the shift. So that’s kind of what I what I did was doing that on the side. But to answer your question of, you know, what was my vision for this? I just love doing what I did. I genuinely loved it. I know that sounds crazy. Being in you know, full time community. And I have the same stuff, staffing, all the stuff that everyone talks about on the uplifting Facebook pages. I went through all that stuff. I still loved it. Because of my attitude. Yes, things were burning down all around me. And here’s the thing that I want to and I really want to drive home is that there was always both two things happening at the same time. A loss and a gain. With everything, even my mom passing away, that was a loss. And there was also a gain, someone doing you wrong, there’s a loss and there’s a gain, getting a raise, there’s a gain, and there’s a los. You get to choose which of the two you focus on and what you focus on, you’ll feel because we’re focus goes energy flows. So yes, all the things are happening. And when I say this, I don’t mean be blindly ignorant. I don’t mean be like now what do you call it blindly optimistic. The thing that I always say is, if it’s raining outside, I’m not telling you to go out with your eyes closed, and say it’s sunny, it’s sunny, it’s sunny! It’s raining, you’re wet! Get an umbrella! And while you’re out there, recognize that now you don’t have to water your gardens because it’s raining. So you just saved yourself an hour of time. You don’t have to wash your car and you just got a free car wash and that work you’ve been putting off because you had FOMO fear of missing out on the sunshine. Well guess what? Now you get to do it without FOMO there’s three wins right off the bat. So it’s not about being blindly optimistic. It’s about facing it and choosing to see it as it is not worse than it is choosing to see it better than it is because that’s the role of a leader is see the vision while no one else may be able to and then make it the way you want to see it. That’s really leadership is all about making decisions in the hard times. And I’m not talking about being a leader position, per se, I’m talking about being the leader of your life. CEO of you. Because guess what, you get to choose what you focus on. Because there’s always both something gained and something lost at the same time. And what you feel comes from what you choose to focus on.

Corrie Sanders  30:25

And Adam, that’s so well said with just your perspective on life, your perspective on problem, your perspective on challenges. And then also it sounds like how you’re receiving information, and the lens that you’re receiving information through, or maybe being in tune to the lens of others that might be giving you information and being cognizant of that information as well. So it just says a lot to your personality and your outlook on life. Do you think that that’s something that you’ve always had within you? Or did you use your pharmacy career as a platform to be able to build upon that positivity? So I guess my, my takeaway question here is the pharmacists that might feel like they’re stuck in these negative positions, or these downward spirals or a headspace that they can’t seem to tap out of – how do you advise them to come out of that hole? How do you advise them to change their mindset? Is this a question that can even be simply answered? I don’t know. But you’ve done such a good job of just cultivating your own positive mindset, any advice for our listeners that might feel like they can’t claw their way out at the moment?

Adam Martin  31:30

Beautiful question. And oftentimes, people think that they’re stuck, because there’s something wrong with them, that there’s something missing, that they’re broken, that they need fixed. There’s nothing wrong with you, you’re in conditions. And again, you get to choose. And I’m not saying this from some superior place. I’m saying this from a kid that was bullied most of his life. I’m saying this from a kid who was in an incredibly abusive relationship for two years, which led me to a very deep depression. And that’s actually what led me to Tony Robbins. So I was in a very deep dark depression in my life in 2017. And that’s actually how I got into Tony Robbin’s world. And funnily enough, I have the book right here, Awaken the Giant Within. I read this book, like my life depended on it, because it did. And in this book, it listed the power of focus that’s directed by the questions that you choose to ask. And it is a resource called the Morning Power Questions. And I was so desperate at this time in my life, no joke, I remember this, I would wake up in a state of anxiety, because because here’s what happened. I, I was, I would always wake up in the state of anxiety, to the point where it would be a like a literal panic attack, hard breathing, all this sort of stuff. So in my mind, I linked up that sleep led to anxiety. So for six months, while I was in the middle of prepping for a bodybuilding show, working full time as a pharmacist, running two businesses, I was getting three to four hours of sleep at night, because my brilliant brain came up with this distinction, that if you wake up, you’re in anxiety. So if you don’t sleep, you won’t have to worry about it. So you can imagine how fun that was. I’ll never forget it. Because in the morning, when I would wake up in that anxiety attack, it would take me about two hours to get myself together, not to feel good, to get out of the door. And those questions basically said, where focus goes, energy flows. And that’s directed by a question. So I thought, I’m going to really do this. So I didn’t just stare at the page. I said those questions out loud. What are you grateful for today? What are you happy about? And the caveat I gave is, I would have to pick an answer. And say it out loud for something that was true for me, that happened in the last 24 hours, because it forced me to look and seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given. So when I went through these seven simple questions in 5-10 minutes, I actually felt better. It was the first time where I felt like I was picking myself up out of this hole of depression. And from reading this book, I still have the highlights the note cards from when I was in this place in my life. I thought if this guy can have this impact from a book, I’ve got to meet him. So 2018 was my comeback year. I went massive action on personal development, went to Tony Robbins conference, Unleash the Power Within. That was when Grant Cardone and one of the guys in sales, had his growth conference. 2018 10x Con, once of that, on and on and on massive action decided to become a professional speaker. And then that next year from all that work is when I became named that most Influential Pharmacist. So you’re in these situations, how are you going to use them? How are you going to use them to grow because you get to choose? Is this the end? Or is this the beginning of something that you’ve never thought possible before? So to the to your question about how do you how do you come back from this? If you’re feeling stuck? Well, what if this isn’t you being pushed down? What is what if this is your opportunity? What if this adversity is an opportunity in disguise? What if this stressing is really a blessing in disguise? What if you can take everything that you thought that you can count out, but it’s actually the exact things that you can count on. Because by going through that depression, by going through all of that crap, I now coach people to overcome it, who might feel stuck, and don’t have the courage, because oftentimes, when we don’t believe in ourselves, sometimes we have to lean on the faith of others in us until we can lean on our own faith, to move forward to continue to pursue, to actually see that maybe we can do this. And that’s really the thing. It’s questions. We have this opportunity, we’re not happy in our job. And we think and we there’s an opportunity to change or maybe go to a YFP conference, or do something like that. And we think, what if I fail, though? What if I look like a fool? What if I show up and everyone laughs at me? What if, what if I’m kidding myself? Well, what if it does work out? What if you do pull it off? What if you’re the smartest person in the room that has something to offer that you didn’t even recognize, I call this being blind to your brilliance. And I know it because I was trapped in it for a very long time. Oftentimes, we discount compliments, because we think that people are just being nice. So here’s a tip that I want to give to your listeners for how to identify something that you may have been blind to. If you hear compliments from people, it’s very easy to say, Oh, they’re just saying that because they’re my family, because they’re my colleagues and this and that. So there’s four categories of people that are in your life, you have your friends, you have your family, you have your colleagues or co workers. And then you have random people that you meet for the first time. So looking at those four groups of people, just literally take a moment. And don’t just think this, physically write it out. Because what you write you invite, and go through each group and say, what are what are compliments that I’ve heard over and over from my family? What are compliments that my friends have told me over and over? What are some some nice words of encouragement that I’ve heard from my colleagues or co-workers? And if I’m out at a party at a social event, a pharmacy conference, and I meet people for the first time, or we’re doing a podcast meeting for the first time, and we give compliments? That sound familiar, right? We can say, wait a minute, there’s a pattern here. All four groups of people who don’t know each other, said the same thing! Maybe it’s true. It’s so simple, but I can’t tell you how freeing and encouraging and enlightening this simple little exercise is to possibly reveal that everything that you’ve been looking for outside of yourself has been within you the whole time, the hero you’ve been looking for has been within. The person you’ve been waiting for you to come save you has been you, because no one is coming to save you. No one’s coming to save you. Jesus saved your soul. But you must take part in your own rescue. And when you do, you can then use that for the platform of a business of a brand of a book of a course and asking these powerful questions. What have you survived? What have you had to build a life raft for? Because if we’re being honest here, right now, you are not where you want to be. And you’re not where you used to be. And that space, you’re in between holds value for someone who is stuck, where you came from, who would die to have the insights, the wisdom, the knowledge that you now have, which leads a lot of people to say, sounds good, Adam, but I don’t have it all figured out. I don’t have my whole life that you know, I’ve got a lot to learn, and I don’t feel ethically qualified to help someone unless I’ve gone through it all. Well, here’s the reality. Look, this is Book of Life that we’re fictitiously talking about. Let’s say that your book of life has 30 chapters. And right now your quote “only” in chapter five, and you think, Oh, I’m not qualified because there’s so many chapters to go. Well, here’s the real talk. You’re on chapter five out of 30. And you’re discounting the things that you can count on, because there are people stuck in chapter one who are too terrified to even consider chapter two. But because you’re in chapter five, you’ve gone through chapter one and chapter two and chapter three and chapter four and chapter five. So you’re actually perfectly positioned because you’re close enough that the person you’re helping can relate to you and they don’t feel far removed. Because if you waited until you were chapter thirty, if you waited until you were perfect, you would actually disqualify people, because they’d see you and say, See, that guy’s perfect, I can’t resonate with him. The thing that you’re trying to make perfect is actually if you got that would disqualify you from connecting to the person that you used to be. So when you think you’re not good enough to help people, you don’t have to have it all figured out. You just have to be 10% ahead of the person you’re looking to help and committed to constant and never ending improvement. So from that perspective, I wonder how many souls you can pour into, I wonder how many people you can bring hope to. I wonder how much impact you can have from the imprint that God put on your life, not for you, but so that you can steward it and give to others, the skills, the abilities, even the trauma that you have. Those weren’t curses! Those were gifts. And they’re not for you, period, they’re for you comma, to steward and develop so that you can help others from your gifts to lead them to theirs. Because if you’re in a dark room, and a light turns on, what are you going to do? You’re going to move towards the light. And the closer you move towards the light, you can see a reflection of the light that’s been within you the whole time, the light you’ve been praying for outside of yourself, it’s been within you the whole time. Because all you have is all you need. An all you need is within you now. So perhaps the place that you’re in right now in life, perhaps you were created for such a time as this, perhaps you were perfectly positioned to help the younger version of yourself. Perhaps you were perfectly positioned to give more than you ever thought possible. Because the secret to living is giving.

Corrie Sanders  42:17

So our listeners, I want everyone to pause that and just rewind it back when you need a boost of confidence. Why you are where you are, what that looks like and what your intention is, and your purpose can be looking forward. Adam, that was so inspirational. And I think I could not have said that in a more beautiful way in terms of people taking the things in their life, whether they’re perceived as positive or negative, and how they can relate to past versions of themselves and develop them into the future person that they were meant to be. So thank you for saying that. And I want everyone to go relisten to that when you really need a boost of confidence.

Adam Martin  42:53

That’s all from the heart so that it’s just it’s all the truth. And I think that’s what resonates, because it’s it’s not made up like when you hear that are like yes, that is true. That is the truth. So what’s stopping us? The only two things that will ever stop you. And here’s another tip for your listeners, the only two things that will ever stop you is fear and anger. And the good news. The reason I’m telling you that is that the antidote to both is the same. It’s gratitude. Now, I’m not just saying pick random crap on grateful to be alive. I’m talking about real stuff. Because when you’re grateful, it’s impossible to be angry. When you’re grateful. It’s impossible to be fearful. And if those are the only two things that mess you up, and the antidote to both is the same. You can become invincible literally by living in a state of gratitude. Now, here’s the trick. It’s not just saying I’m grateful for this, you have to feel it. So I came up with this thing. Back in my time of anxiety that I mentioned. I was like, I’m sick of this. I’ve heard this gratitude stuff over and over. But it sounds like a bunch of phooey. But let me actually try it. So I woke up this morning, like years ago, and I was in my bed and I started to feel this anxiety wash over me. So it was like, Okay, everyone says gratitude. Let me actually try this. And I was like, what if I didn’t try it? What if I experienced it? This is a true story. So I was lying in bed, and I thought what can I be grateful for right now? Well, I knew that it was like cold outside. So I felt my blanket. And I just literally started physically from the spot I was in and I lit I physically felt my blanket. And I thought I’m grateful for the soft blanket. I spoke it, I felt it and I saw evidence that was real. And I was like, Oh, that is soft. I’ve always wanted this really awesome, luxurious bed. And I have it! So I thought I’m grateful for this comfy bed and I rolled around slightly and I felt it. Well, I’ve always wanted a house! And I was in my home. I’m in my dream home. Well I always wanted a master bedroom. So I looked around, and I saw that I saw that I was in this bedroom. And I felt the air on my face. I looked around and recognized I was in my dream home. And I had like, I’m so grateful to be in a quiet neighborhood. And I was just silent and listen to the silence. I call it a gratitude ripple in the now, which stands for grin, G R I N, you start with where you are, and then you ripple outwards from that place. And then it was I’m grateful for being close to an awesome city. I’m grateful for being in Austin close to work, my my family lives, I’m grateful to be in a state. I’m grateful to be in this country and outwards from there. So if you start physically where you are, it’s not just words, it’s physically connecting and experiencing the gratitude that will make you invincible, it’s impossible to be grateful and fearful. It’s impossible to be grateful and angry at the same time. So if you’re grateful first, you can’t lose, because that’s the only two things that will stop you from what you said rewinding and listening to the dose of truth, and really embracing those things. So now we know not only how to get into that, but also what will stop you. So now you’re fully equipped. And here’s one other caveat again, just to be aware of, oftentimes, when we when we talk of fear, there’s lots of different types of fear, fear of success or failure, all this stuff. Well, every human being has two fears. And I’m telling you this, because if you’re listening and you’re a human, you resonate with these. How the mind plays tricks is that you think that oh, this is just me everyone else has it figured out? No. You thought that in pharmacy school too. And you found out quick, everyone else was farther behind the you, let’s be real, right? So the two fears that every human being has, is the fear of not being enough, and the fear of not being lovable. So when you hear that, and you’re like, Oh, he’s reading my mind, it’s because we all have those fears. And when you’re grateful for how far you’ve come, that’ll help with that, if you want to and one of the real one of the slippery slopes to getting into these pits is comparison. You may have heard Comparison is the thief of joy. But it depends how you define comparison. If you compare yourself to other people, yeah. What if instead, you compared yourself to how far you’ve come? What if instead, you compared yourself to what you’ve learned? What if instead you compare it to how much resilience and persistence you’ve sculpted, since you started, that’ll have a quite a different feeling won’t it? When you give yourself that gift, because it’s true, it’s not make believe positive self talk. It’s just reality. Again, all stemming from asking a more powerful question.

Corrie Sanders  47:52

And two observations there. One I will give you credit for it sounds like throughout the duration of your pharmacy career, you were always taking action in some way, shape, or form that aligned with your why. And that is something that we hone in on a lot. I’ve mentioned this numerous times on the Innovator Series of the YFP Podcast is before you make a career transition, think about what is your why because as you alluded to earlier, there’s a million reasons and a million people that are going to tell you that you can’t do what you want to do. But if you’re aligned with your why and your personal reason, and you are strong and steadfast in your mission and your goals, that will keep you moving forward. And that is all that matters. So I want to give credit where credit is due to you too is not only being grateful and having gratitude for where you are and where you stand at each moment, but taking action in that grateful presence. And maybe it’s the gratitude that allows you to move forward as well too. But you have always been taking action so that when you’re in those mental funks, or when you’re in those lows, or how you ever we want to describe that, you have been building a repository of skills that you can fall back on or that you can lean into, to help pivot you into the next chapter. And so I want to give you credit with that and say to the pharmacists that are maybe in in these ruts, take action and take grateful action, like you’re speaking to find something that you enjoy, and start tapping into those areas of your mind or your skill set or brush those off or whatever it is. Because in order to get yourself out of those positions, you ultimately will need to pivot in some way shape or form. If you want to stay in pharmacy, it’s having that skill set and having some kind of polished skill that you can move back on to or that you can progress forward. And so Adam give you a lot of credit again for constantly developing yourself and for taking steps to move yourself forward. And then also just having that mindset of positivity and strength and reflecting on what you’re grateful for. And it sounds like you do a lot of reading and journaling and that is certainly integral to my daily routine now as well. And there’s a lot to be said for the written word, but just two observations from my perspective of not only that mindset, but taking some action behind it. So now I kind of want to flow into the next state of your career, it sounds like so you tapped into speaking, you had all of these wonderful skills that you had been building during your time as a community pharmacist. And I think I listened to it on another podcast where you said you were giving this speech and you were all of a sudden, just in this flow state? Is that when you defined yourself as an entrepreneur, is that when you started seriously, considering stepping back from that traditional pharmacist role? Can you let us into your mind a little bit about that transition from your community pharmacy career to where you are now? 

Corrie Sanders  50:46

Yeah, absolutely. And I’m really glad that you said you put in the work. Because we’re about to go with the story a lot of people get twisted. So I want to make this very clear. Faith is central to everything that I do. And this is I’m just going to start with this. How we define faith is huge. And again, I’m not putting beliefs on anybody. But what I will share with you, is that oftentimes we think that faith is like a quadrant of life. It’s a checkbox, like I went to church, I did this and that check. Faith is actually not meant to be a priority in your life. Let me say that, again, faith is not meant to be a priority in your life. Faith is meant to be central to all priorities in your life. And that’s what leads up to this next chapter. So what you said is important, again, is that you put in the work, because there’s there’s extremes, there’s all work and you know, I’m on my own faith and all this. And then there’s also God’s got it. I’m just gonna sit on the couch and just pray. Neither are correct! Faith without works is dead. One thing that I came up with over the years that I’ll just shamelessly continue to share is yes, Jesus take the wheel. But you’ve got to put your foot on the gas! You’ve got to put the gas in the tank! Let’s go! Right?  So whenever I want to my first National Speakers Association meeting, a friend of mine invited me he’s like, Hey, man, I think you’ll love this. And at that time, I didn’t know what speakers were, I thought I had no clue. So I went to this meeting. And I was blown away. I was blown away, because these were incredibly positive people that genuinely cared for people. And they had all these awesome backgrounds. And they were genuinely encouraging one another. And they were sharing stories. And you could just tell it was genuine. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. There’s no backstabbing, none of that. So I thought, this is a career? You can do this? I had no clue. But I then this is where that “blind to your brilliance” thing came in. Because I was I was talking to these speakers, and they literally would say, first time I met them, you’re a national speaker.  You’ve got a gift, blah, blah, blah. And these people weren’t recruiting me. They had nothing to gain. So I thought, why are they giving me these compliments? And then I thought, Where have I heard this before? And then I went through the tool that I just shared with you, in that moment is where I came up with that tool, true story. And I thought, wait a minute, everyone, my whole life has been saying the same thing. But I was discounting it, because I thought, oh, that’s just my professors being nice. Those are just my colleagues being nice. That’s just my family being nice. That kid at the party when I was going riffing, doing what I did with the confidence thing, he was just drunk, being nice, or whatever it was, right? And I thought all these people said the same thing. Maybe there’s a thing here. And then to what I said earlier, I started having doubts. But who am I? I’m not I don’t have training in this. So it was right around that time when I surrendered my life to Jesus Christ. And that’s where my, that’s where my faith journey really started to take off. And in that moment, when I came back, I remember clear as day I was in my apartment at the time, and I just got to my knees in prayer. And I said, God, I feel like the speaking thing is like a gift, but I have no clue what to do. And I have a job I love I don’t know. What do I do? And that was the first time I audibly heard God’s voice. And he said, Go speak. Crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. So working full time for a corporate retail pharmacy, if y’all know about the scheduling, meaning you don’t get to change your shifts, and if you want to vacation, from where I worked, you had to give a year and a half notice for a week vacation. True story. And if you wanted to shift a few days, oftentimes you had to give months notice, that was often rejected, but I digress. With that, in the at the time, NSA, National Speakers Association, offered the professional speaker certification. This was before COVID I think they’ve taken it away since. But in order to do that you had to give 15 paid talks in a 12 month period to a room of 15 or more people. So try doing that with a full time retail pharmacist schedule that you can’t move. Well, God moves. So I declare that was my one goal that year, I hired a professional speaking coach. And that was the other thing, tying money into it. It was a God situation, but long story short, this woman was brought into my life. And she ended up being one of the most influential speakers still to this day in NSA. When I was at National Convention two years ago, in Nashville, they had Hall of Fame speakers on stage showcased as keynotes and stuff. And I think there were like 12 or 15 of them. 10 of them referenced her by name in credit, and this one was brought in my life. That ain’t an accident. So this woman is brought in my life. And she’s like, Yeah, you you know, I do speaking seminars, you fly out to St. Louis, it’s two days, and it’s seven grand. Didn’t have that, like laying in my back pocket. So I thought about it. And I was like, this is when we step up. And I never, I’ll never forget, I remember recording this this video, because I do Instagram reels and stuff. On my stories just behind the scenes. I remember while going on a walk on the treadmill in the morning in St. Louis telling people, I’m here because I have a calling from God, I know I have the skill and also don’t know, I also know I don’t know what to do with it. But I’m willing to go into debt over it. And I’m not promoting debt, but I’m just saying Money talks, right? And if you really believe in something, and you know, you can make something of it. You got to be willing to put your money where your mouth is. There’s double puns right there. Right. So I did that. And I hired this professional speaker. And that whole year, things lined up, you’d like you wouldn’t believe this one month. And I ended up scheduling 20 talks, because you want to always overshoot because things happen, people cancel. And that did happen a couple times. I ended up becoming a professional in 10 months instead of 12. But but this one month, I’ll never forget, it was so busy with holidays and vacations and all this stuff. There was only one day that I had off. And I found an opportunity to speak. And it was at that day at that time. That doesn’t just happen. So God was in that whole thing. So that was that whole year fast forward. And you know, living life, blah, blah, blah -buy my house true story. Bought my house in COVID 2020. Long story there another God thing, but I’ll fast forward to this. Beginning of 2021, I hear God for the second time. You will not be in this job this time next year. Huh?  God, what’s that mean? Silence And I’m like, oh, I must have misheard, right. So because I’m in a job I love and making good money, I’m making good impact. It’s all good. And I just bought a house, right? So I’m like, Oh, it’s fine. So I just ignored it. Well, as time went on, God started to poke. And he started to poke deeper and starting to poke more frequently. And it started become very apparent that I was called to leave. It didn’t make any sense. To be honest, I was very angry with God. How could you lead me from this huge, amazing impact of being rejected to given 10s of 1000s of people hope all over the world. Now you want me to walk away, whaaat? True story. I know this sounds crazy, but it’s the truth. I went on a walk in the fall, I’m pretty sure was October. And it was raining, pouring down rain and I went in a walk because I had my breaking point like it was clear I had to make a decision. I walked in the rain yelling at the sky. It’s true. I can’t make it up. And I got back and I surrendered. I fell to my knees and said You want me to quit fine. It made no logical sense. I had no plan whatsoever. I didn’t like quit the job at the time. But mentally I surrendered and said okay, I will obey. I will obey. I’ll do this. I don’t know how or what. But I surrender my intention. Not too long after out of the blue. Oh, double pun there! You’ll hear why in a second. I get a text from a dude who I had connected with who went to my alma mater University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy. And he had been following my work on Facebook, Instagram with the Fit Pharmacist, and he texted me and he says, Hey, man, I don’t and long. So another caveat a couple years ago, he had a grand opening. It was actually March of 2020 when he opened his pharmacy two weeks before the lockdown. And I thought it was pretty badass for a pharmacist to open an independent pharmacy without insurance. So I went in it just so happened that was my one day of the week off it things have shifted with the work schedule since I originally mentioned. So I thought I’m off that day. I’ll go you know, wish them grand opening. Little did I know that planted a little seed. Because fast forward to this time. He said, Hey Adam, I don’t know if you know if you’re still in the area, but we’re we’re doing really well and we’re expanding. We’re looking to hire on a part time pharmacist. Do you have any recommendations? I was not intending to join at all, but I had a network of pharmacists, and I didn’t want to make some inappropriate recommendations. So I said, let’s meet up. Let me hear what you’re looking for and I’ll see if I know anyone. So we’ll meet up at Panera and he’s tell him you know, saying, well tell me about the Fit Pharmacist, what exactly do you do with like speaking and coaching and stuff? So as I’m telling him my skills with marketing and innovation and all this, he’s leaning in, and he says, I don’t know if you’re looking for a job, but your skills are exactly what we’re looking for. Can’t make this part up. I said, Well, what would that job entail? What’s What’s the job description? Never forget this. Hands me a pen, and says, you write it. Now you tell me a pharmacy job where they tell you to write your job description. What the heck is this? So now I had no intention of doing this. God’s at work. And I say, Well, I love speaking and I love coaching. I know you don’t do speaking stuff. But if I could do like 50% coaching, or I’m sorry, 50. I was in marketing, like I really love marketing, growing innovation. If I could do like 50% marketing, and tie in coaching and then do some bench work as a pharmacist. That’d be cool. Done. Huh?What pharmacists job is that?! So I ended up working part time from this guy. And again, I quit in December of 2021. After just buying a house with a pharmacist mortgage, no clue what’s coming. This is a startup company. There’s no guarantees, working part time, full faith. Full faith. Still to this day. It’s the number one LinkedIn post I’ve ever made was my last day working my 10 year career. It was crazy. And it was crazy faith. So I started this job, and it was incredible. So the reason I said it was a double punch out of the blue is it was Blueberry Pharmacy. If y’all know Kyle McCormack shout out, bro. That is a literallyis utopia, pharmacy. Anything that you can think of with retail pharmacy, that gives you a headache that you hate does not exist. They’re both on the side of the pharmacist and on the side of the patient. No insurance, over 1000 generics and the prices are wild. Like incredible. It doesn’t make any sense. It’s crazy. So I’m hired to do this. So I start that in 2022. Amazing, like phenomenal. One of the most up true story my two favorite pharmacists of all time, is Tim Ulbrich and Kyle McCormack. Their level of character is unmatched. Like I’ve never seen anything like it. And that’s withstood years of watching behind the scenes at their worst all that stuff. Strongest character I’ve ever seen in my life. Those are like I love both those guys to death. So and I would I have told Kyle like you remind me of Tim and I told Tim you remind me Kyle this is like awesome, right? Working with this. And the mission is to help people who don’t have insurance, get medications for cancer, MS. and all kinds of other things. When insurance is charging them $120 a month and we’re getting it sold them for 80 bucks, same exact thing. Same exact manufacturer, all that stuff. Crazy. So I’m joining them to do marketing. So long story short, we 5x Google reviews, I don’t know of any pharmacy that has above a three star on Google reviews, we have 128 five star Google reviews. That don’t happen, go find that somewhere! Don’t exist. There’s nothing like it. And our slogan of Blueberry was “Welcome to Different” because we did things differently. It was incredible, amazing culture. And I could go on and on about it. But that’s what led me into coaching because I was shifting with the Fit Pharmacist, I’m like, I really want to coach, I really want to get inside with people and help them break through what’s stopping them. Get through these limiting beliefs really tap into their God given potential. So they can live life on purpose for a purpose and stop settling. So I got deeper into coaching. And I had a Tony Robbins coach myself at this time. And I was wrestling, I was trying to change the business. What’s the next step? And it hit me like a lightning bolt. I’m going to all these Tony Robbins conferences, I’m using these products. I’m paying for a coach, why don’t I become a coach. And it all made sense. All of it made sense. And so I decided to apply to become a Tony Robbins results coach in the fall. And just fast forward. There’s about a 4% acceptance rate. And this is a three month interview to get in. And this isn’t like you meet with someone and a month later you have another meeting. It is literally a full time job to do this interview. And they do wild stuff like mind blowing and there’s three phases. So you’ve got to get in, you got to pass the interview. You’ve got to do all these background checks in this. You get in and there’s a phase one, if you pass and these are by the way at the top 1% of coaches in the world watching you like a hawk on and off the screen. If you pass, you’re invited to phase two, if you pass, you’re invited to phase three. And then if you pass that you’re invited for the opportunity to become a coach. So that’s what I did. And I was like, I love this. And I was doing full time coaching and part time pharmacy. But there was this calling this was there’s a lot more to this, but I’m gonna fast forward, there was this calling to become more and to be a coach. So I was talking with Kyle and he was expanding. And he’s like, Hey, man, we’re getting busier. I’m like, Yeah, it’s like the marketing is working. It’s like, it’s like we do its work. Right? And he is all the team wasn’t me. It was the team. Like, there’s Ravi, there’s Kyle. There’s all the students, like it’s a team environment. It’s incredible. Doesn’t exist anywhere else. Mind blowing, check it out. BlueberryPharmacy.com. Go there. Right? I digress. But he said, You know, I’m thinking about this, like, Well, man, I really had a great time with coaching. And I actually think that I’m called to do that full time. So he’s looking for me to transition from part time to full time. And I’m basically saying, I don’t I’m going the other way. Yeah. So it was like, well, one of the things that we always taught me as an Eagle Scout is never leave somewhere without making it better than you found it. Never leave somewhere without making it better than you found that so I thought I can’t just leave because they don’t really teach marketing in pharmacy school, right. And it’s such a strong mission. He’s such a great guy, I can’t just leave. So I was like, I need to find a replacement. And thank God, there was a pharmacy student on rotation, phenomenal guy, entrepreneurial spirit. And he was looking to actually sign on with Rite Aid. And both Kyle and I were like, nah, nah, don’t do that. So we’re talking to him. We’re just being honest. Like, you know, tell us what your goals are really understanding, getting to know what he’s about. And so we talked with him, like, Hey, man, I actually would like you to take over like, you’ve got the skills, let me train you all this stuff. So we ended up making the decision. Again, it’s you’re coming out of school going all in on a startup, still, it’s a risky move, but he did it. I tell that point of the story. Because he had a mentor, he had Kyle as his mentor, he had us to support him. And he made that move. He already signed with Rite Aid before he graduated, and then he ended up changing. So I’m going to Blueberry appreciate the opportunity. All this. A month later, Rite Aid goes bankrupt. How about that? How about that? God continues! Right? No, I ended up working my last shift of August of 2023. And I was full time I think it was in May. So now I’m working with 93 clients all over the country. I also am a business results trainer, helping businesses from, hey, I have an idea. I don’t know what to do to hey, we’re making 100 million, we want to turn it into 200 million next year. So I not only train the owner, I also get to train their team. And what training is, is it’s combining coaching and speaking. It’s my playground, it’s awesome. I’m able to have all the So long story short, God guided me through this. God directed me he called me to walk away from a career, everything that I shared. Adam, it’s time to walk away. It’s time to change your identity. Because your identity isn’t linked to a role. It isn’t linked to a job. It’s who you are in Jesus, it’s who you are in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing. So that was a real coming to Jesus moment, and laying down everything that I thought I had built. But it was really him the whole time. And really surrendering to that and talk about a faith leap. And here’s the thing that we’re understanding ends is where faith begins. Because that move made no logical sense to anybody. True story. When I posted I’m leaving pharmacy, I had my professors text me to make sure I was okay. I had a professor who’s now a Dean at a Pharmacy reached out to me. And if you’re listening to this, I love you, man. Thank you. Make sure I was okay. Because it made no logical sense. But God does. And then to your point, you did all this work? Yes, faith and work is required. It is a co partnership. And that’s really my mission is life. My mission in life is to comission with Jesus to reconcile relationships and redeem people’s lives. That’s it. That’s why I do what I do. And it’s so incredibly fulfilling. And it’s a blast. We have fun. And when I tell my clients, I say you’re here to get results and you’re guaranteed results every session because we’re not called coaches, you get a result in 30 Minutes or Less guaranteed, and you will get a result and you’re going to have fun because if you’re not having fun, you’re doing it wrong. So if you don’t like to have fun, we got to get you a new coach. So that’s the first call I have with my clients. And if they’re not laughing I know it’s time to go! So it’s fun. It’s a blast. People are changing their lives and being able to witness that being able to be a vessel for God to do that work. It’s absolutely extraordinary and, and the level of faith that this has grown, I’ve gotten to see people bring their lives to Jesus through this, I’ve gotten to see people turn the impossible in the into the possible, which is really what a breakthrough is. A breakthrough is a moment in time when the impossible becomes possible. And you actually are living that, and seeing someone do that the look in their eyes, the moment where they think this can happen, this is possible. That’s why do this all so that people ignite their light within. And when you unapologetically own your fire, you get to spark someone else’s light. And then they can go and do it too. And that’s why I do what I do to keep that moving through.

Corrie Sanders1:10:51

I think it’s beautiful to hear that you didn’t necessarily have an identity crisis. And that’s something that I think about all the time because I am similar to you, Adam, I mean, just about as involved in pharmacy as I can be in the state of Hawaii, and I love being a pharmacist.

Adam Martin  1:11:08

In Hawaii! 

Corrie Sanders  1:11:10

Specifically.

Adam Martin  1:11:12

People probably want to switch with you!

Corrie Sanders  1:11:15

But I also think about all the time, I mean, I’ve been very I’ve taken a lot of risks in the past year. And I’m like, if worse comes to worse, my identity is not tied to this profession as much as I love it. And I love being a part of it. And I think there’s so much that we can do, and there’s a lot of untapped potential in pharmacy. If the world were to collapse on pharmacy, tomorrow, I’m going to be fine, I would figure it out, it’s going to be okay. So I think that that’s always an interesting lens as a pharmacy entrepreneur is are you tied to being a pharmacist, because that almost can become a self limiting belief with potential that you can have on the healthcare community in general, not just the pharmacy community. And I think when you’re on this path of impact and growth, and you’re finding your flow state, the opportunities that present themselves to you are beyond what you could have comprehended and a lot of times they reach into healthcare in general, not just this unique, narrow pharmacy lens, which is obviously something that nobody teaches you in pharmacy school, and that you don’t learn without experience. But I do think about that identity crisis all the time on my own path. So I just wanted to articulate that and to point that out, and to give that to other pharmacy entrepreneurs or to other pharmacists that, you know, don’t ever define yourself as a person to your career, I think that is just such a huge, it’s just a It hurts my character to think about that.

Adam Martin  1:12:41

Brilliant point. And I’m really glad that you highlighted that. And first, I want to acknowledge you because you said you’re taking lots of risks. No risk, no reward. Now, to your point about people tying their identity to pharmacists, this is a very, it’s a nuance, but it’s very important. How you identify how you label, the word pharmacist, how you define that can totally change your life. When you change the way you label things, the things you label change. And what I mean by that is, how do you define pharmacist? Most people in retail, the identity pharmacist is that you’re working full time at one location. So if you were to change, you are threatening your identity. And again, the strongest force in the human personality is the need to stay consistent and how we define ourselves. So if your definition of being a pharmacist is staying full time at a retail establishment, and you have an opportunity to go do a residency, go do a fellowship, go do whatever that threatens your definition of your identity. And you might not understand why you may chalk it up to fear. But really what it is, is you’re protecting your identity because of how you choose to define pharmacists. And most often that wasn’t consciously chosen that was subconsciously adapted or borrowed from someone else. So really think if you are stuck, if you’re thinking of oh, I might want to change or explore other options are go the entrepreneur route, and you and you thought about it. But if you’re honest with yourself, are you still stuck where you’ve been? Or you maybe complacent. And this isn’t coming at you, I’m actually coming with you. If you’re not making any progress, just pause and say, how do I define myself? If I define myself as a pharmacist, critical care, ambulatory care, whatever it is, what’s that mean to me? Because nothing has any meaning except the meaning you choose to give it and when you give it an identity, you protect that to the death, including your passion and fulfillment. So if you’re feeling burned out, maybe it’s not that you’re overworked. Maybe it’s that you’re underwhelmed. 

Corrie Sanders  1:15:00

And to kind of plug a line in the same vein there, too. I know we spoke earlier about the mindset of people in pharmacy right now. I mean, I don’t think it’s a secret. There’s all these positive I’m I’ve got air quotes on for the listeners, these “positive” Facebook communities or we’re seeing a lot on LinkedIn and across the news with Pharmageddon. And these pharmacy walkouts, and a lot happening with pharmacists not necessarily even asking for higher pay, but just asking for safer working conditions. I would love to ask for your insight on the future of pharmacy because you’ve got this lens of having been in a traditional three letter pharmacy setting having been in a very non traditional Blueberry Pharmacy setting where you’re doing something totally different. And now being a pharmacy entrepreneur, where you’re coaching people in both of these settings, and you kind of have your hands in a lot of different pharmacy baskets, so to speak, or you’re able to see pharmacy through a very, very unique lens that I think only comes with experience. So to pharmacists that are potentially in those retail settings,  any advice on what the future of pharmacy looks like, advice for them in general, I will leave the floor open to you with anything that you want to add just based off the current current climate of pharmacy in November of 2023.

Corrie Sanders  1:16:06

Really good question, and I’m going to steal something from my dear friend Joseph McClendon, the third, who says the future is what you dare to make of it and Fortune favors the bold.

Corrie Sanders  1:16:41

I love it a short and sweet and simple answer. We don’t need to dive into the weeds.

Adam Martin  1:16:48

But It’s the truth. Nothing has any meaning except the meaning you choose to give it we can look at all the things that are wrong. And we can also say, is this terrible? Or is this actually an opportunity in disguise, because of injustice goes on for so long,  eventually it’s going to pop and that’s an excellent opportunity to innovate. Let’s let’s use an example. I like this one. The music industry. Y’all remember the 90s when CDs had like 12 songs, and they were like $20. That was such a rip off. It was screwing people! And what happened? Napster. Online music. The industry was destroyed because of their greed. And history tends to repeat itself.

Corrie Sanders  1:17:34

Very well said and a lot of food for thought and very many different ways that you can take that. So I love it will leave our listeners with a little tease and a little bit of introspection with their own beliefs and where they see where they see pharmacies going. But I do really appreciate that comment, Adam. 

Corrie Sanders  1:17:52

So I will kind of round things out here with three questions that I just like to throw on at the end of our podcast, just very brief, meant to be a little bit of a personal testament to your journey, and hopefully bring some inspiration to some of our listeners. So what has been the most memorable aspect of being a pharmacy entrepreneur, any moment that sticks out in your head?

Adam Martin  1:17:52

Absolutely. 

Adam Martin  1:18:18

I think it’s really taking the leap and not looking back. And there’s something that is really cool. When next time you’re driving, if you’re thinking of making the leap, if you’ve had the courage, and like I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna do it. I, I want to Tim’s thing, and I’m in this community and I’m fired up and you go and you hold back, and you pump the brakes. And you’re in this cycle of getting pumped up, but not actually moving forward. Well, the next time you’re in your car, just take a look. Because again, it’s all about being resourceful, and success leaves clues. So if you look forward, you’ll see that the windshield is quite expansive, and it’s looking forward. But you also see your rearview mirror. That’s quite tiny, looking back. Which would you like to focus on?Which way are you going? Don’t look back, you’re not going that way.

Corrie Sanders  1:19:17

For a second, I thought you were gonna say “close your eyes.” And I was like…..next time you’re driving close your eyes! Very well said. Puts puts perspective into true form. So Adam, a piece of advice for someone contemplating a non traditional pharmacy career path? 

Adam Martin  1:19:37

Absolutely. Why do you want to do it? And here’s this is actually a really good question. And something that I see a lot of people doing when they do it and they have regrets, or they get angry or resentful is are you moving towards something? Or are you moving away from it? Oftentimes people make changes preemptively off of emotion and when you make an emotion out of fear or anger, it’s almost always the wrong decision. So looking at human behavior and test me on this, don’t just listen, test me. The only two reasons that humans make any action is to avoid pain and to seek pleasure. Now of the two just asking you, which one do you think is a stronger driving force initially avoiding pain, or seeking pleasure? 

Corrie Sanders  1:20:30

Initially avoiding pain.

Adam Martin  1:20:31

100%. Spot on. So what most people do when they’re making career change, is they’re like, Oh, we’re understaffed and underpaid. This is terrible. So they jump out of the pan and into the fire. So initially, it is very helpful to get leverage on yourself. Because without leverage, nothing lasts. And in order to make that change last long term, you need a also pleasurable future, a compelling future that has emotionally compelling reasons why. So yes, you want to be real with the pain? Why do you want to leave? But you also want a clear, compelling future with emotionally driven reasons why? That’s how you’ll make it to last. So just ask yourself, why do you want to leave? Most people say because it sucks here. It’s another day in hell, whatever. Okay? That’s real. Well, what’s the other alternative? Because make sure that you’re not jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. So be really clear on why you’re looking to make a change and be responsible. If you’re married. If you have kids, and it’s a huge risk, make sure you’ve got money in the bank, make sure you have a contingency plan. And this is something that I train people when they’re starting a brand. And we’re going to scale it down to scale it up. So when you’re when you’re gonna make a brand, and you’re going to get on social media, create content, podcasts, episodes, whatever. Well, right now, when you’re ready to launch, we’re super pumped up, just like when you’re ready to change jobs, you’re super pumped up to do whatever it takes. And you might commit some posting every day, twice a day. Well, what about when you’re not pumped up? What about when you’ve had a really rough day? What about when you lose your best friend. So what I recommend is future pace yourself. So imagine and use the future, use the past. So you’ve already had troubling experiences, it’s already happened. Use those to your advantage. Think back to a time when you were in a rough spot in your life. And so this is the personal brand context of making content. Think back to a time when you were having a really rough spot? How if you were in that spot back then how much energy and mental effort would you be able to commit to posting? So how many posts a week would you make if you were in the toughest spot in your life, and most people say, like once a week, so use that as your baseline, and until you’re consistent for three to six months, then scale up, it’s all about consistency. That’s the key. And as a fitness person, consistency is the best workout. Consistent, and we all want to make these intense changes post 10 times a day, change my job, burn the boats, well, we want to be intense, but we don’t want to be consistent. And consistency is the most intense thing you can do. Because hardly anyone does that craziness. So the thing that is telling you this is prepare. So if you’re looking to make the change, recognize that you’re likely in a very heightened emotional state. So future paced by looking at when you were rough, what was the most stressful financial time that you had in your past? What did you what was what was in jeopardy? Was it your rent? Was it your mortgage? Was it your children’s medical bills, and then use that knowledge because history tends to repeat itself. So use that knowledge to prepare for the storms that not may but will come in the future. So consider not just yourself, but who you’re who’s dependent on you, and set yourself up. Now, again, it’s different for everyone. This is the general 80% you know, the bell curve. This is 80% this is the strategy you want to look at is who’s dependent on you? What are their needs, and calculate what’s your cost of living, and also planned for rainy days, what were some rainy days that you experienced in the last five to 10 years of your life? Imagine if all of those happened over the next month. Because oftentimes when you take this leap, you will be tested. 100% of the time. You say you want something you will be tested, and the world moves for those who are persistent. So plan ahead to make the journey more enjoyable. Because again, if you’re not having fun, you’re doing it wrong.

Corrie Sanders  1:24:46

Yeah, I loved – I love the point that you said about being in a heightened state of emotion. And that’s something that I think a lot of our guests have had in common is that they really sat with that emotion for an extended amount of time. I mean, it was a very calculated risk. To your point, it looks so different for everyone. There’s obviously not a blanket formula. But I love dialing into this is a heightened state of emotion, I need to be aware of it and how do I dial this back to something that’s going to be on a completely different plane and trajectory of emotion that I may not even have experienced yet up to this point in my life. So let’s try to just put our feet in that situation and see how we feel and try to plan for a rainy day, so to speak, or try to plan ahead. I really love that point. And Adam, my last question is, what is I actually think I might be able to answer this for you. But what is your favorite part about being a pharmacy entrepreneur, or in this case, you’re not a pharmacist anymore. So we’ll just dial that back to what is your favorite part about being an entrepreneur?

Adam Martin  1:25:44

 So that’s interesting. I don’t think I consider myself an entrepreneur. And by definition, by all definitions, people like, of course you are, you’re out on your own running your own business, you’re doing all these things. I just consider myself a secret agent for Jesus. That’s it. Because people come to me for all kinds of things. I want to a new career, I’ve helped them do that over and over, I helped you get I’ve 10x people’s income. I’ve done things that would blow your mind, helping them do it, empowering them, I really don’t do anything. I just ask questions. As a coach, I’m literally a professional question asker. That’s all I do. So when it comes to being a professional entrepreneur, a pharmacist entrepreneur, it’s not about me. That’s what I love about it. Because we put all this pressure on ourselves to have it all figured out. We want to have control and certainty of our future. And oftentimes, when we surrender that or even entertaining, the idea of surrender, we think that surrenders giving up and again, how you define things makes a huge thing. Surrendering is one of the most strongest things, or there’s a there’s a good word, clearly I have an English degree, the strongest things you can do. But know that to tie it in it, surrender is one of the most courageous things that you can do, because you’re dying to yourself. And the ways of the kingdom are the opposite the ways of the world, when you die to yourself is when you live. If you want to lead, kneel, if you want to be first, go last. So recognizing that I’m not really I don’t have this plan for this 10 year vision. I’m living on daily bread. And that’s faith. And again, that’s not, you know, not doing anything and expecting money to fall from the sky, which it did and does. But it’s being an active participant in your own rescue, recognizing and being resourceful. These are the gifts I’ve been given, how am I going to steward these responsibly, not for my own gain, but so that I can be a river an avalanche of abundance through which I can pass through and serve to others. It’s not about me, it starts with me. It goes through me I’m required. But it doesn’t end with me. And when you put the focus off yourself, you start to look at how can I give? How can I use this stuff, and give it to other people because again, the secret to living is giving. And then when it’s never about you, you can’t lose. And especially in times when we’re feeling lost or helpless. When you’re feeling helpless, get helpful. Because once you give,it adds this level of gratitude that you can’t even imagine. So my favorite part is and the best way to describe what I do now is I get the honor and privilege to have a front row seat to witnessing miracles. It’s freaking incredible. Like, I literally cry, I’m not kidding, ask my colleagues, I cry two, maybe three days a week, because of the things that I get to witness, the breakthroughs, the marriages that are saved, the all on and on and on. It’s amazing. And having the honor and privilege to be a witness to be a conduit for this is absolutely extraordinary. And we have fun! It’s a blast! So if you’re not having fun, you’re doing it wrong. So if you’re in a job and that doesn’t mean I’m telling you to quit, but say could you be focusing on the wrong thing because you’re influenced by other people in your profession. Maybe you’re hanging out in the wrong Facebook groups. Maybe you need to listen to more YFP. Maybe you need to get more engaged in that community. Maybe you need to, instead of listening to people who are complaining and have a life that you don’t want, maybe you need to connect with people who are living a life through the integrity and character and lifestyle that you actually do want. Because success leaves clues. And I’m gonna give your listeners a big tip. If you want to get success as fast as possible. There’s three simple steps. Number one, proximity,number two, proximity, number three, proximity, whatever you want to attain, get around people playing that level of the game. Because like crabs in a bucket, if you’re in an environment that doesn’t support or encourage your growth, they will always pull you down to their level. So level up and become the smallest person in the room, from the humble perspective to grow and become a part of something. And that’s really intimidating. You might be in that room thinking who am I? I feel out of place. Yes, you’re in the right room. Congratulations! Now be of service. But how can I be of service I have so much to learn? Figure it out. Favorite quote from credit this to Marie Forleo. Everything is figured-out-able.

Adam Martin  01:39

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I can’t credit that one. But it’s the truth. It’s all about innovation. And that was one of the biggest takeaways that I got from University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy, our values aligned. leadership, innovation and excellence. Personal excellence is the ultimate rebellion. I learned that from Andy Frisella, creator of 75 Hard, I’ve done Lift Hard, I’m actually finishing my second year of that. Incredible program. It’s free, not not tied to it in any way, but if you want to level up your life, get up on 75 Hard, I did a podcast because I did that while I was a pharmacist highly recommend, but I digress. All kinds of tools, get resourceful. Surround yourself with people who encourage you. That’s the best part of this is, being around people that you want to be around. Because you’re serving at such a high level. I had the honor this past. I was there Saturday through Wednesday. Every year Tony Robbins has the annual coaching meeting. So there were 108 coaches from 29 countries. And these are the most amazing souls you ever met. Because they’re givers. There’s no, there’s friendly competition, but there’s not like backstabbing competition. It’s give give, give without any expectation. They don’t keep tabs, they give with unconditional love. It’s incredible. It’s what we call our chosen family. There’s nothing like it I’ve ever seen or heard of in the world. It is incredible. And they make me want to be better. So get around people that are playing at a level higher than you. And watch what happens. Because proximity is power. So that’s why I’m honored to be a part of this podcast seriously, it’s such an honor, because I’m such an admirer of Tim and you and the team that you have, because it’s such an honorable community of people that want to play and live life at a higher level so that they can create a future for their family that they may have never had. So that they can inspire other people, maybe they’re mentoring, maybe their colleagues that it doesn’t have to be that way. The way that all the loud people are complaining about yes, that’s may be happening. And there’s other stuff too because in every adversity there’s also an opportunity in disguise because again, there’s always both two things happening at the same time. Something that’s gained and something that’s lost and you get to choose which of the two you focus on so choose wisely.

Adam Martin  04:43

Best way is probably at this point. I’m on LinkedIn. Dr. Adam Martin, Also the original on Instagram, all one word The Fit Pharmacists, that’s that’s where I’m most active. But you can also email me at [email protected]

Adam Martin  05:09

All right, let’s go.

Adam Martin  05:45

My pleasure, thank you so much for the time for your kindness. And again, just a reminder, you were all blessed to be a blessing. So go forth, be great and dispense your full potential. 

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Tim Ulbrich  05:56

Before we wrap up today’s show, I want to again thank this week’s sponsor of the your Financial Pharmacist Podcast First Horizon, we’re glad to have found a solution for pharmacists that are unable to save 20% for a down payment on a home. A lot of pharmacists and the YFP community have taken advantage of First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan, which requires a 3% downpayment for a single family home or townhome for first time homebuyers and has no PMI on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. To learn more about the requirements for First Horizons pharmacist home loan, and to get started with the pre approval process, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

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Tim Ulbrich  06:41

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archive newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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