Entrepreneurship/Podcast

YFP 352: Pharmacy Innovators with Kelley Carlstrom, PharmD, BCOP

Posted on March 28, 2024March 27, 2024 by YFP Media

In another episode of the Pharmacy Innovator series, Dr. Kelley Carlstrom, CEO and founder of KelleyCPharmD, discusses entrepreneurship in oncology pharmacy.

Episode Summary

On this episode, we have another segment of the YFP Podcast’s Pharmacy Innovator series! Hosted by Corrie Sanders, PharmD, this series is tailored for pharmacists venturing into entrepreneurship, featuring stories and strategies for aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs.

This week, we delve into the dynamic world of entrepreneurship within oncology pharmacy with Dr. Kelley Carlstrom. Kelley is a board-certified oncology pharmacist and CEO and founder of KelleyCPharmD, which addresses crucial gaps in clinical oncology training. Dr. Carlstrom shares her experiences working in traditional and non-traditional settings, healthcare technology, insights on her transition from employee to entrepreneur, her evolving business model, and opportunities in oncology for pharmacists. Kelley also discusses how to monetize your expertise and the value of communities when starting a business.

About Today’s Guest

Kelley Carlstrom is the CEO and founder of KelleyCPharmD, an education company that fills the considerable gap in clinical oncology training. She is passionate about democratizing oncology pharmacy education and increasing accessibility and inclusion through her unique L.E.A.R.N Oncology Method.

Kelley received her Doctor of Pharmacy from The University of Colorado and completed post-graduate residency training at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center and Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, MA.

She is a board-certified oncology pharmacist that has worked in a variety of traditional and non-traditional settings including at large academic and small community cancer centers, as a consultant for a large electronic medical record implementation, and in the healthcare technology space helping create digital products for oncology clinicians and patients.

Kelley is also a prolific content creator, sharing clinical and motivational pearls about oncology. She is part of the LinkedIn Top Voices program, an invitation-only program that recognizes and celebrates the most influential and engaging professionals on LinkedIn.

Key Points from the Episode

Entrepreneurship pathway in oncology pharmacy with Dr. Kelley Carlstrom. [0:00]
Career transition and business ideas for pharmacists. [2:34]
Starting a business in oncology and program design. [6:24]
Building a successful oncology pharmacy business model. [12:27]
Transitioning from consulting to entrepreneurship with a pharmacist. [18:00]
Leveraging clinical skills for business growth. [23:40]
LinkedIn usage and its impact on pharmacy businesses. [28:37]
Oncology pharmacy roles and opportunities. [36:07]
Oncology pharmacy training and business model. [42:27]
Entrepreneurship and decision-making with KelleyCPharmD. [49:35]

Episode Highlights

“You know, once you have a problem, it’s great. But then you have to figure out what’s the best way to solve it both for the both for the customer and for you. Like you don’t want to build a business that you don’t want to run.” – Kelley Carlstrom [7:44]

“So I think when the number one thing I would encourage pharmacists to do is to connect with people that are interesting to them, not just you know, other pharmacists.” -Kelley Carlstrom [30:20]

“When I got into entrepreneurship, I realized you need to make decisions very quickly. And if you’re always second guessing yourself, it’s not you’re you’re not going to be successful.” -Kelley Carlstrom [48:11]

“There are no bad decisions in entrepreneurship. It’s just you have to get off of the table and start walking and start doing things. And that’s how you learn.” – Kelley Carlstrom [48:55]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Corrie Sanders 00:00

Hi YFP community, Corrie Sanders here, host of the Pharmacy Innovator segment of the YFP Podcast. Pharmacy Innovators is designed for pharmacists navigating the entrepreneurial journey. In this series we feature stories and strategies that help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs. Today we have Dr. Kelley Carlstrom, known on social media as the oncology pharmacist. Kelley is the CEO and founder of Kelley C PharmD, an education company that fills a considerable gap in Clinical Oncology training. Dr. Carlstrom is a board certified oncology pharmacist that has worked in a variety of traditional and non traditional settings. This includes a large academic medical center, small community cancer centers, and then the healthcare technology and startup space. Kelley is also a prolific content creator and was recently invited to be part of the LinkedIn top voices team, an invitation only program that recognizes and celebrates the most influential and engaging professionals on LinkedIn. Dr. Carlstrom is a returning guest the podcast and was featured in August of 2021 on episode 217. We will link to that episode in the show notes as it provides great detail about Kelley’s background and pharmacy journey. Today we speak to Kelley about the timing for her jump from employee to entrepreneur and dive into her unique business model how her business has evolved over time, and opportunities in oncology for both Kelley and the pharmacy profession as a whole. Kelley share some great lessons surrounding monetization of her expertise as an oncology pharmacist, to include the value of various communities and reflections on decision making both inside and outside of clinical practice. Now that we’ve set the stage, let’s dive into today’s main event. Our incredible guest, Dr. Kelley Carlstrom. Kelly, welcome back to the podcast. It’s great to have you.

Kelley Carlstrom 01:46

Thank you so much. I’m excited to chat again.

Corrie Sanders 01:49

Well, I know that you and Tim recorded in August of 2021. And during that time, you guys did a great job of really diving into your educational background, your pharmacy career path, what we want to really dive into today is that entrepreneurship pathway, and what exactly that looked like for you when that started in your career. And we’ll get into some details about your mindset and growth. So let’s start with really diving in to the consulting portion of your career. Before that you were in a large academic medical center, you were in an outpatient oncology clinic, and then you transitioned into consulting. So let’s talk about that consulting. How did you find that job? What important mindset shifts happened during that job? And how did that ultimately set you up for success with where you are now?

Kelley Carlstrom 02:34

Yeah, I love talking about this transition, because it was completely unexpected. In my career, I thought that I would be in a clinical practice role my entire career, you know, I spent a decade training in school and in residency to get that type of role I was in, and then all of a sudden, I was I was entertaining, moving out of that role. And I really had a lot of doubts and a lot of conversations with myself during that time about whether I really wanted to do that. And what it came down to was me kind of thinking through what’s the worst that could happen. You know, it sounded like a really interesting opportunity, this consulting. And being in clinical practice was kind of the safe bet. Like I knew I would always have a job that would be very, very comfortable. And consulting was a complete black box. I knew nothing about it. I didn’t really know what they were hiring me to do, which was a Cerner implementation, I had always worked with Epic in the hospitals I worked at. So it was very scary. And I just decided to jump in and see what doors it opened. And it opened a lot of doors both. From a job perspective, and like networking perspective, but also a lot of doors kind of, for me personally, kind of my mindset, how I thought about how I thought about where my career would be, because when I first started consulting, you know, they were paying me very well. And I didn’t, I had never seen a pharmacist in that type of role where I was there, essentially, for the knowledge I had. I wasn’t doing any of the building in the EMR. They had a whole team of analysts that were building, they were hiring me as that clinician, that liaison between their clinical end users, their doctors, nurses, pharmacists, and their Cerner builders, they needed somebody in between to kind of talk both languages. And that was really the first time I’d heard about that role. And that that led me to see like, man, there’s a lot of skills pharmacists have that we don’t talk about, we don’t recognize, we don’t market. And that’s that’s what really opened my eyes to thinking, oh, there’s a lot more out here that I could, that I could dive into. And so that’s how my business ideas kind of got started. I started having a whole bunch of ideas about how how else I could solve problems besides this kind of one specific problem I was solving during my consulting contract. And over time, I just started to iterate on that and lean into it. And it’s been a very interesting journey.

Corrie Sanders 05:06

Yeah, it’s great to hear you say that. Pharmacists aren’t very, don’t realize maybe some of the clinical or some of the skills that we had outside of our clinical training and our knowledge. And it really takes seeing the profession through a different lens to maybe bring that into fruition, and shine a light on some of the skills that we have that have nothing to do with clinical practice. But really what role we play in a team based care model, whether that’s from, you know, an electronic EMR perspective, or whether that’s from a direct patient care perspective. So I love that you highlighted that.

And then Kelley, let’s talk about how the company that you have now started to build off of that consulting practice. So you said you started getting some ideas for your company. What did that look like? Did you have people coming to you with specific questions? Were you getting questions from the company itself about oncology? How did the idea for your business really set a seed during that time?

Kelley Carlstrom 06:04

I was getting a lot of questions on LinkedIn for years where I’ve been active for years, but I honestly wasn’t paying that close attention, which is funny now that I look at it in hindsight. You know, you don’t pay attention until you start paying attention, right? And then the light bulb goes off. And you’re like, Man, why didn’t I think about this years ago? But I had a lot of ideas about about starting a business. You know, it was I had stumbled into a couple podcasts, a couple heard of people heard a couple of people talking about entrepreneurship. And I’m like, Okay, that sounds interesting. But I didn’t really there. This was kind of the beginning of the, of the pharmacy entrepreneur, kind of wave, if you will. And so there wasn’t a lot of people talking about it. So I had a couple ideas that were that were ruminating in my brain. But just all of a sudden, one day, I was answering a LinkedIn message. And everybody asked me the same question on LinkedIn, which was, hey, I’m new to oncology. You talk a lot about oncology on LinkedIn, can you point me to somewhere where I can learn it? And I was like, and I always I got this question so much, I had a copy, paste kind of ready to go of like, five resources that I send to everybody. And just one day, and I’m like, I’ve been answering the same question for a long time. Obviously, there’s a gap here, these people are not residency trained, they’re not going to go back to do residency. They’re working in cancer centers, taking care of cancer patients. And they should be, you know, they want to be better. And they should be supported in this. And I’m like, Alright, I’ve got the training, got the knowledge, how could I help them do this? And that that kind of started started the flow of of a million ideas. You know, once you have a problem, it’s great. But then you have to figure out what’s the best way to solve it both for the both for the customer and for you. Like you don’t want to build a business that you don’t want to run. Right? So I spent a lot of time at the beginning trying to figure out how the heck am I going to do this? Because oncology is giant.It’s not like where you can like set it and forget it, I’ll record a couple of videos and sell that and people will learn oncology. No, we get new drugs approved practically every week. It’s a it’s an ongoing thing. So it took a lot of design upfront.

Corrie Sanders 08:19

And let’s talk about that design. So when you touched base with Tim, it was almost three years ago now. And you were just about to launch the ELO program, which is enjoy learning oncology. So I know that that was going to be your first program within your business. How has that developed? What did that look like when you first put that out? And then ultimately, where are you today with the services and the products that you offer?

Kelley Carlstrom 08:46

Yeah, when I talked to him, I can’t believe it’s been three years – I feel I feel like I’m my mother when I say where does the time go? It goes by so fast. But I remember when I talked with Tim, I was at I was I had just finished my pilot version of my program. So when I had sold the pilot, I had reached out to the the people on my email list that I had expressed interest and I said, Hey, I’m gonna build this thing. It’s not built yet. I’m gonna build this plane as we’re flying it. And I had eight pharmacists that raised their hand that said, Yep, well, we’ll buy into this program, even though you have nothing built Kelley. I literally was building it as they were going through the content. And I took their feedback. And I took the lessons learned from that and kind of made changes and made iterations to it. And that’s kind of when I talked to Tim was when the the first official iteration was was rolling out. And it’s pretty much been the same from a structure perspective since then. So I’m going into the fourth year of that program. And it’s been when I think about the structure, you know, for pharmacists that are thinking about starting something, I really spend time take the time to spend time to really think about how you’re going to format the services that you offer. And one, you obviously want to think about it from the client perspective, like, how is the is the service that you’re offering, or the product you’re offering going to best suit the customer? But also, from your perspective. How are you going to design it? So, one, it doesn’t take up all of your day, because as a business owner, you actually have to run the business, which is, sounds like logical, right? But at the beginning, you don’t really think about how many kind of back end, if you will, things there are, you know, not just kind of bookkeeping, like the standard things. But also, marketing takes up a big chunk of my time and relationship building and just client support, customer success, things like that, like they, that takes a lot of time. So when I was building the program, I really thought about one, one challenge I have is oncology is rapidly changing. So I had to figure out how am I going to keep up with this in terms of content? And then two is, am I who’s going to do it? Is it me, or am I going to get other people to do it. And so I settled on a model where I hire other expert pharmacists to support the lesson content. So at any given time, I have 24 expert oncology pharmacists that are in my program, because I have 24 lessons. And they’re the ones that are reviewing the content, kind of making sure it’s updated. They’re the ones that are supporting my clients with clinical questions. And that takes that pressure off of me. But it also frees me up to do the operation side behind it, you know, I need to find those experts, I need to get them the content to review, I need to review their content, because the program is through my lens, it’s my kind of IP. And so just because an expert says we should include something doesn’t mean I necessarily include it, it’s just, you know, I know my customers very well I know what stage they’re at. And so I everything has to kind of filter through what the what the lenses of my client and my particular program. So when you’re designing your your business and your offers, I think it’s really important to think about all those different steps and not get bogged down in the really fun kind of sexy things at the beginning, which is like, Oh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna offer something for sale, it’s like, well, you have to, you have to really think thoughtfully about it and not not kind of box yourself in.

Corrie Sanders 12:27

And I want to highlight a couple of things that you said, especially at the beginning there about one, you had a very small cohort to start. You at eight pharmacists. And you were learning as you said, you were building the plane while you’re flying it, I think that that is instrumental to, it does not have to be a perfect business model. And it’s not going to be a perfect business model. And it is going to evolve over the course of time. So just getting started and realizing that yes, there’s going to be so many modifications and iterations of different things along the way. But all you really need is that small cohort or client base to launch yourself and to figure out what you need and the feedback and the evolution of a business. So I think that that’s really important to hold on is that it is going to not be perfect from the start. And you’re not going to have 100% market share or analysis from the second that you started your own company that will evolve over time. So let’s explain that that business model a little more just because I want listeners to really understand how valuable the business model that you’ve built is. And I think you’ve done such a great job. I mean, honestly, you are one of the pharmacy pioneers and really monetizing your clinical expertise. So you have these programs, and they’re sold directly to pharmacists that are practicing oncology. And how do they buy into that? Are they buying into each lesson individually? Are they buying into packages? Have you tiered them over time? Has that changed over time? What is ultimately the product that the consumer is buying?

Kelley Carlstrom 13:56

Yeah, great question. I have a essentially, I have a signature program, and I have a couple tiers to it. But I have one kind of main tier, one main offer that I want to sell. And the reason I want to sell it, it’s called my ELO Collaborative. The reason I want to sell it is because I know pharmacists get the best benefit from that particular program. When I was for and that’s that’s the one I’ve been building since my since my beta, my pilot project. And when I started selling it, I got people that would reach out to me and say, Hey, I don’t I don’t want this big program. I just want to do the content. And I’ll go through it on my own. And so I do have like a DIY path where people can access the program content, but they can’t access the experts in the program where which is where you can ask questions and get support and kind of hear, hear the experts talk through those real world nuances which are so important in oncology. And so that came about because people were asking the market was literally he asking me to sell them something. So that’s great when that happens, but I think you really do also need to know, how do you get your customers the best outcome, because at the end of the day, if they’re buying into your program or service, and they’re not getting an outcome, they’re not going to talk about you, you’re not going to have that word of mouth, which you do need and is beneficial in any type of business. So I think really, really honing in on on what that offer is. Because if you have a lot of offers, it’s hard to focus on one particular one. So I do have tiers to my main offer. And then over time, I’ve, I’ve considered other kind of smaller offers that I’m always kind of experimenting with, which I think is a really important part of entrepreneurship is experimentation, which I didn’t really understand. At the beginning, I wish I had done more of it initially. It’s easy to get kind of stuck in, like, Oh, this is what so and so guru says, or this is what some other entrepreneur’s doing, I’m going to I’m going to do it exactly for my business. But that’s our businesses, everybody, every business is different, particularly healthcare, clinician based businesses, I have found are very different, like marketing tactics don’t work the same as they do for, you know, other types of businesses. So I think experimentation is really important. But so I’ve got that name program, I’ve got tiers to that program, I also have some individual courses that I’m now starting to sell, I’m actually rolling those out now. And I also do, I also offer like one-to-one mentorship matching. So pharmacists that want to work one-to-one with an experienced oncology pharmacist, kind of like a preceptor and a residency where you can talk with them about maybe a QI project, or maybe you want to change roles, and you need to create a case presentation to present at an interview and you want some help with that. I also do some matching with things like that, but at the core of my business is this ELO collaborative program. That’s what I’m known for. And I help I help pharmacists that are working in oncology today, develop their baseline knowledge, and that’s a very clear kind of avatar or, or target client as well, you know. When I started, I was pretty broad. And I included people that were interested in oncology. But that is challenging, because if you’re not working in oncology today, and you’re trying to learn this really complex field, it’s much harder because you’re not applying it at work. So I would encourage listeners also to think, who is your best fit client, and it feels counterintuitive to narrow and to niche down. But it’s actually the best thing for a small business is be super, super clear. Because when people come across my website, when they come across my LinkedIn, when they meet me at a conference, it’s it’s very clear who I helped. And when it’s clear, that means other people can refer me very easily.

Corrie Sanders 18:00

And that is such an important point. I also love that you talk about experimenting a little bit. And not only using and leveraging experimenting to get to that target audience. But there’s no wrong and experimenting as an entrepreneur, trying to figure out who your ultimate end user is how that changes over time. And then it sounds like you’re doing a great job of also getting feedback from your clients to make sure that you’re providing the services that they want, you’re providing the services that they paid for. And that ultimately, you know, what they’re purchasing is, what they’re getting, and how you can help fill some more gaps and some more needs based off of those responses to I think that’s really great. So Kelly, I want to step back a little bit further. So we talked about the nuances of your business, and the tears and how that’s evolved over time. Let’s talk about the transition from that consulting role to ultimately stepping out and having your own business. Was there something that was very black and white, where the contract ended? And then you decided, Oh, this is the perfect time that I’ll do that. Were you kind of you know, one foot in each camp where you were doing both of them simultaneously, and then you eventually made the jump? What did that transition ultimately look like for you?

Kelley Carlstrom 19:12

Yeah, I straddled a lot for a long time. And I think I think most pharmacists could probably appreciate the fact that I was very risk averse. When I was in clinical practice. I think a lot of pharmacists are it’s probably a bias for who they let into pharmacy school or at least did when I applied you know, it’s just a natural tendency to be like, this is risky, I don’t want to do it. But when I jumped into that consulting role that kind of gave me that initial like zing if you will, of what it felt like to take a risk and it didn’t, it wasn’t terrible. Like alright, I survived this risk and I got a lot of benefit from it. So that that led me to think okay, what’s the next next risk I should take? Now with that said, I still I was very cautious at the beginning because I had so many ideas. I knew zero about business. Like in my pharmacy program, we had that classic, you know, business course, which was really an independent pharmacy course. So I didn’t take it because I wasn’t interested in it. So I knew nothing about business. And I was really nervous at the beginning, like, I don’t know anything about running this business. So I didn’t want to invest a lot of money into it, I was willing to invest my time, kind of my sweat equity, if you will. And that’s what I did. I had like, all the free tools, my email tool was free. I did pay, I did invest for some business coaching upfront, but for the most part, I tried to spend as little as possible until I validated the idea and people were paying me money. And then when that when I got that validation, and I started investing more, I realized, okay, if I can continue my day job and have the revenue, the income from that supporting my life, and anything extra that I make from my business is you know, is I don’t need to pay myself, I can reinvest it in the business. So that first pilot that I ran, I didn’t, I made zero money, I lost money on it, actually. But that didn’t matter to me, because I was getting a lot of feedback. And I was like validating the idea. And so I kept working I was I did consulting for almost three years. So during the pandemic, I actually had the opportunity to take a role in a in a startup. So a healthcare tech startup that was building oncology software tools for clinicians and for patients. And so what that allowed me to do was continue to straddle those things, I was building my business while I was still making a full time salary. And I did that for about a year and a half, and then transitioned into part time. So I actually got recruited out of that role. And this is a good little side caveat about LinkedIn. I always talk about how great LinkedIn is. And I will continue forever talking about it because pharmacists do not use it enough, we need to use it more. But I got recruited. And I was not looking for a job. But somebody reached out to me and said, Hey, I see you posting all this stuff, because I was posting a lot of oncology content for my marketing purposes. And he said, I want you at my company, what kind of job do you want? Essentially, essentially built me a job. And I said, well, I’m building this business, I don’t want to work full time. And he said, fine. So I got a, I got a part-time job in in a digital health company, and did that for about a year and then actually got laid off from that. So it was a lot of tech layoffs at that time, which was just about a year ago. And so that’s how I came to work full-time in my business, which honestly was a great thing. Funnily enough, when I found it funny enough, when, when I got laid off, I called a couple of people that day. And, two of them said immediately, congratulations. I said, I’m not sure you’re supposed to say that when somebody gets laid off. But they knew I was building this business and they were like, you’re ready to just like try it out and see how it goes full time. So I have now been full time in my business for about a year. So you know, suffice to say this, the summary of that is that I didn’t I didn’t want to go full-time right away. Because one I didn’t know if it could support me from a revenue perspective, I wanted to be able to invest a lot of my, my revenue back in the business, and to have it grow. And so I did, I straddled two, two roles for gosh, three and a half years or so before I went full time.

Corrie Sanders 23:40

But I think it’s important to recognize that that’s maybe the best path for most pharmacists that are risk averse. I think there’s a lot of validity to you know, jumping off a cliff and investing in yourself and sinking or swimming to see if you survive. But ultimately, that can have a lot of dark ends if you haven’t really pivoted to a model, if you haven’t established proof of concept, if you don’t have the confidence in yourself yet that you’re going to be able to run whatever business it is. So I love that you straddled both. To be honest, it sounds like you really built up something that was manageable and workable and scalable during that time, while you were you know, had one foot in each camp. And then eventually, when you were congratulated for getting laid off from your job. You already had that experience. And you already had that model and you already had that confidence to move forward with your business. So I love that. And I think that that’s a great growth trajectory and maybe a more realistic growth trajectory for some of our more risk averse pharmacists. So Kelley, what resources outside of LinkedIn and we’ll get into LinkedIn in a little bit because I want to give you some time to talk about this platform that you love so much. But outside of LinkedIn, what resources did you use? Was there any tapping into a small business community in your area? Did you have any coaches? Did you really just boot strap this thing independently all by yourself, or were there some outside community entities that helped you better leverage your clinical skill set and set up a business model?

Kelley Carlstrom 25:10

Well, nothing is ever done by yourself. There’s always a huge team, whether they work for you or not, but there’s always people that you lean on. And so my initial resource was the Medi-preneurs Conference, which I went to back in 20, I think it was early 2019. And that’s where I kind of brought like a bunch of ideas I had, and the education business is what kind of, you know, took root, if you will, in some of the conversations that we had, and that that’s what I ran with after that. But I have a software idea, actually, when I first start when I thought that was going to be what I what I went with at the beginning. So that’s a great tool I did, I did use some of the Score, resources. So everybody probably has a Score chapter near them. This is I forget exactly what it stands for. But it’s essentially retired executives that are that help the small business community and it’s a free service in your local community. I also did work with a couple different business coaches. And you know, that’s a whole conversation in and of itself, too. I’ve worked with many different coaches over over the past couple years. But I did work with a couple in the beginning that kind of helped me get some traction helped me understand the basics. So you know, I knew nothing about running a business. So business coaches, at least got me a little bit on the right fit about the right foot about finding like product market fit and who my clients would be and how I would need to talk about it. I also listened to a ton of podcasts. So when I was traveling for consulting, I was I was on a plane, like a lot. Listen to tons and tons of podcasts. And honestly, most of them were way over my head. I remember listening and them talking about acronyms or saying words that I had no idea what they meant. And I just kept listening and kind of absorbing just kind of throughout osmosis. Honestly, like I wasn’t taking notes or anything, I was just listening and seeing what little nuggets I could catch on to what strings I could pull a little bit and learn a little bit more. I didn’t do a lot of reading of business books at that time. But that’s something I use now I listen to a lot of audiobooks or read business books, I have a long list and in my queue of anytime somebody recommends a book, I drop it in my queue whether or not I can get to it right away

Corrie Sanders 27:28

I do the exact same!

Kelley Carlstrom 27:30

You can only read so many at a time. But and honestly something that I think we don’t value enough in pharmacy or not, I guess not that we don’t value enough, but we don’t know enough about it our communities. So how can you find a group of like minded people that are working towards a similar goal, so you all can learn from each other. I’ve been in multiple different communities. And I would encourage pharmacists to look outside of pharmacy communities as well. Because pharmacy, although pharmacy entrepreneurs and pharmacy, pharmacist run businesses alike, depending on your business, if you’re selling, you know, like a service to anybody. But if you’re marketing to healthcare clinicians, I think it’s really easy to get in a silo and forget about some of the general business practices. And I’ve learned so much from just a communities of regular entrepreneurs, you know, often I’m the only pharmacist in those groups. Sometimes there’s other healthcare clinicians, but usually, most of them are not in healthcare. And I’ve learned a lot from them.

Corrie Sanders 28:37

And I think that that’s an important differentiation, too. So you’re still learning a lot, but your end user is a pharmacist. So you can ultimately relate because you guys are seeing practice through the same lens, you’re seeing your service and your products through the same lens. But I think that’s even more important if you’re selling to non-pharmacists, is embedding yourselves in these communities and learning how to speak business to people that aren’t pharmacists or just how to speak business in general, right, like, we, one, don’t sell ourselves appropriately, normally, for what we can do as pharmacists. But really having to see your business outside of that pharmacy lens is something that I think you’re alluding to, and then I certainly found very helpful is having that communication line and having that vernacular to be relatable to someone that doesn’t know anything about your profession for the most part. So Kelley, let’s talk about the LinkedIn community. Because you’ve mentioned that a couple times throughout our conversation already, I want to give you a chance to really explain how LinkedIn has shaped and changed the trajectory of your business and your personal development. And then let’s talk a little bit to about the elite community that you’re a part of in LinkedIn and how you got invited into that.

Kelley Carlstrom 29:45

Sure, yeah, LinkedIn is, I think people underestimate it because they don’t know what it’s about. You know, I remember when I first joined, which was back in 2014, early 2014. And I remember looking at the feed and thinking like, oh, okay, this is sort of like the Facebook feed. But I didn’t see anything particularly interesting. So I’m like, this is kind of boring. Why am I here? And the reason I didn’t see anything interesting is because I didn’t have a network that I was connected with. So LinkedIn didn’t know what information to share with me. So I think when the number one thing I would encourage pharmacists to do is to connect with people that are interesting to them, not just you know, other pharmacists, but sure, other pharmacists. But also people that are, you know, if you’re interested in the technology space, you know, connect with technology leaders connect with if you’re in managed care to connect with people, you know, that are in that space that talk about problems and solutions in that space, because that means your feed is going to be interesting to you. So once I’ve been building up my, my network, they’re on LinkedIn for many years, I started to get much more engaged, because I saw interesting things, I connected with interesting people. And again, that’s where I got recruited into that consulting role, actually, the consulting role in the digital health role. So I’ve always, I’ve always known that that’s where people find me. But the key is, you have to be active. And what I mean by active is, you have to log in pretty regularly. I always chuckle when I send people a message, and I get a response, like three months later. And they say, sorry, I don’t really log in that often. And I’m like, okay, that’s, that’s fine, if you would, if you don’t want to do that, but you’re not going to be able to use LinkedIn, for the way that it’s been intended to be used, which is to have you be seen, and for you to see others and you have to log in, and you have to engage pharmacists are not engagers. We, we are lurkers by default, and by lurkers. I mean, you read the content, but you don’t click the Like button, you don’t message people, you don’t write comments, just lurk on other people’s posts. And I know this to be true, because I go to conferences, and people say, Kelley, I love your content! And I have no idea who they are. Because they never put a comment, they never send me a message, they just lurk on my information, which is fine. I mean, it’s free content I’m putting out there, but you’re I just had a post this week or last week about it where you know, those that those that speak up, stand up, like they’re the ones that if you’re saying if you’re putting yourself out there, and you’re interacting, and you’re commenting that you’re gonna get more kind of recognition, more help, like people are much more likely to respond to a message and answer a question you have when you’re when you’ve already engaged with your content previously. So I think those are the those are the big things like login regularly and really engage, even if it puts you out of your comfort zone, which it will in the beginning. But but push yourself, push yourself, you know, you don’t have to write this huge diatribe. Just write you know, think about one sentence comment on somebody’s post that’s insightful or something from your experience that could help not only the person that posted it, but also somebody else that comes across that post, you know, hey, think about this perspective, or this is what I have seen in practice when I’ve seen this happen that that goes a long way on LinkedIn. So that’s how I’ve used it, I use it today. I do I post a lot of content. So I post Monday through Friday. For our aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs, I would not recommend starting there. It is a lot. I worked my way up to that. I first started posting infrequently, then I was posting once a week, then twice a week, then three days a week. And then when I went full time last year, I started posting five days a week, but content creation is is a whole is a whole thing. It’s a whole beast. It takes a lot. It takes a lot of time and effort to do it. So don’t don’t start there. But that’s how I that’s how I present on LinkedIn. I also do a lot of outreach. I connect with a lot of pharmacists, both individual pharmacists working in oncology and not, I connect with other healthcare leaders. And I use it to help not only kind of pharmacists find my program, because that’s a marketing effort that I’m putting in. I want pharmacists working in oncology that are new to oncology to see my content and recognize that I can help them learn this complex specialty. But I’m also using it to spread the word about oncology pharmacists. You know, I get a lot of people that comment on my posts to say, Oh, I didn’t realize oncology pharmacists could do that. And that that’s kind of a much more broad profession expansion when when people outside of our profession start recognizing what we can do. So I enjoy having that impact as well and that comes with when you have the ability to reach more people. So that’s how I use LinkedIn kind of on the regular and then you mentioned the group I’m a part of, which is called LinkedIn Top Voices. And this is an invite program, an invite only program that LinkedIn extends to people that are that produce a lot of content that is helping users of LinkedIn. And so I was invited into this program in January of this year, which is super exciting. It’s pretty it’s it is like, I think less than .5% of LinkedIn users are in this program. And what I have learned, from I’ve actually learned a lot about LinkedIn from being in this program just a few months. And what I’ve learned is that they it’s different than other social media platforms, they want their users of the LinkedIn platform to get better. They’re invested in helping professionals get better at their jobs, learn and develop themselves as they want people on the platform that are sharing content, that will help the users do that. So that’s how I got invited because I share a lot of content that helps oncology pharmacists get better at their jobs and develop themselves.

Corrie Sanders 36:07

And it’s great to certainly be rewarded for putting so much time into the platform and effort and energy over the past 10 years. And again, that’s something that was not recognized overnight, you gradually worked your way up from just sporadically posting to a couple times a week to every day, Monday through Friday. So I think that’s something too, that maybe entrepreneurs will lean into LinkedIn very, very hard at the beginning of their journeys, or maybe there’s a maybe they actually don’t lean into it at all. But really realizing what you can do with that platform. If you use it to the maximum extent if you’re cultivating a feed that provides you a voice and provides you information that’s relevant to your business, or relevant to your specialty area. There’s certainly a learning curve with LinkedIn. And there’s certainly a way that you can make the platform much more valuable to you than I think the average pharmacist realizes. So that’s great to hear that you’re being rewarded for the time and the effort that you put into the platform too. So Kelley, let’s talk a little bit now about what oncology is going to look like in the future. You are in the depths of oncology, you are the oncology pharmacist, as you’re known on LinkedIn. So what do you see for oncology in the future? And what do you see the roles for pharmacy specifically in oncology, and the next couple of years? So specifically for this question, I’m thinking of pharmacists that may or may not know if they want to dabble in oncology, or maybe they were voluntold to now be a part of an oncology program. Like where do you think the trajectory of oncology and pharmacy and oncology is going?

Kelley Carlstrom 37:43

I like voluntold. I have a lot of clients that kind of fell into oncology. I actually didn’t like oncology at school. It was not where I expected to be. And I didn’t get into it until my grandmother developed leukemia when I was a P4 student on rotation. So there’s kind of two components of this question. I guess there’s like the, the what types of jobs will there be, and like the tactical pieces, and then the outlook of, you know, where’s oncology pharmacy going? So the outlook is, is that it’s growing? It, I mean, it’s really the best specialty if we think about it. Yes, I’m biased, but it’s totally the best specialty for many reasons. Because we have the most drugs approved, we have the most clinical trials, we have arguably the most expensive drugs. And that means that and the most complex drugs, which all means that the pharmacist has a really important role in helping manage costs and toxicities from all these drugs that are hitting the market. So there’s definitely going to be lots of drugs, lots of opportunities, lots of jobs in oncology. And the types of jobs that there are and will be, are pretty vast. I don’t think people recognize how many different types of opportunities there are. So certainly, there are many positions in patient care. And this is where a lot of the jobs are right now. And that is because we are having similar burnout issues in oncology pharmacy as the rest of the profession is having lots of our experienced staff are leaving clinical practice, which is a bummer. Honestly. I think it’s great for them, because everybody’s entitled to you know, do jobs that, do work that fulfills them, but it’s also leaving a big gap in patient care. And even if we can fill that gap with bodies, which we do, and they are all like centers are almost always recruiting and hiring for oncology positions. What what the missing piece is that we’re losing people with experience. So when somebody with 15 plus years walks out the door and they hire somebody with a couple of years, even if they’re residency trained, that’s a big gap in knowledge and experience that’s leaving. So I think that’s that’s a challenge we’re all facing and in all the oncology conferences we’re talking about it ad nauseam, because we haven’t figured out how to stem this kind of bleeding, if you will. So there’s lots of opportunity in patient care both in community cancers, in academic centers, inpatient, outpatient, individual private practices, even though there’s not a ton of those around anymore, there still are plenty. There are also patient care roles or specialty pharmacies. So this is particularly good for pharmacists in the retail community setting that want to do something a little bit different. Specialty Pharmacy is an excellent transition. Actually just heard about an opportunity in California where they, they ideally want somebody with a retail background, who also has an interest in oncology. They’re willing to do training in oncology, because they have legal requirements where they need a pick to dispense oral drugs and this particular legal situation, but they’re dispensing oncology drugs. So they want that retail background, but you need some, you know, they’re, they’re dealing with these complex drugs. So there’s a lot of opportunities there, we’ve got opportunities in managed care and the payer space. So think about every time you send a prescription, and it needs a prior authorization, those people on the other end at the insurance company that are dealing with those prior authorizations, they often have very little oncology training, which is not fun for getting approved complex oncology drugs, because we’re talking to these people that don’t know anything about oncology. And they’re the ones that are saying yes or no. So those people need oncology training. And there’s, there’s lots almost every oncology drug I feel like needs a prior auth these days. So a lot, there’s a lot of opportunities in managed care. There are certainly jobs in pharma. As with every specialty. There are jobs in tech, like I said, I worked in on the tech side of oncology for many years. And there’s there’s becoming more and more kind of non-traditional roles, I do get a lot of people that reach out asking about remote oncology jobs. There is not a ton, but there are some, there are some at companies like McKesson, for example, where they do still have patient interaction, but they also they also get to, you know, have the flexibility that comes from from being in a remote in a remote position. So lots of opportunity, lots of different types of roles. Again, this is why oncology is the best specialty. Yeah,

Corrie Sanders 42:27

I mean, I think you nailed the, or you hit the nail on the head with the funds are there. Unfortunately, cancer diagnosis is increasing. So the diagnostic component is there. And it’s really just going to be a never ending game, it seems of filling positions for a growing specialty area. So like, as you said, I think there’s a ton of opportunity across various different continuums in the care spectrum, for for people to jump into oncology, even if they don’t necessarily have the experience. And I also love that you said that you didn’t like oncology in school, I’m sure a lot of people will relate to the fact that oncology is a beast of a module in school. And it’s very, very intimidating. So comforting to know that there’s people like you that are creating content and creating different products that people can buy to bridge that gap between what was taught in school and what’s needed in clinical practice. I think that’s such a beautiful business model. So looking at your business model, specifically, what’s in the future for you? It seems like right now you’re doing a lot of direct to consumer products and advertising. Is there any component of a business to business model moving forward? What do you think the evolution of your business is looking like over the next couple years?

Kelley Carlstrom 43:35

Yes, I would love to, to continue to work with institutions. So I have started working with some institutions that enroll their staff in my program. So that’s definitely a focus as well. And that’s because, you know, they’re hiring people without experience, but they also need them to do the job. And what I have found from all centers, I talked to this, they have a very good onboarding, technical process. You know, when somebody’s newly hired, they show you the EMR, they tell you the workflow, this is how, you know, this is how we do this thing here. Nobody gives clinical training. They kind of expect you to learn that on the job or on your own, which I’ll tell you doesn’t work. There’s there’s not enough hours in the day to do it at work. You get kind of the bare mitts sure you’ll get comfortable with some of the drugs, but you won’t understand breast cancer. You won’t understand, well, why is the doctor blowing through treatment parameters for this drug, but not this drug? Those are things you have to learn from a clinical perspective, from a disease perspective. And so institutions are recognizing that they need to support their staff better. And I’ll tell you the main reason is because turnover is expensive to them. You know, I don’t think we realize as pharmacists how much money it costs an institution when you leave. Not only do they have to pull another FTE to cover that that role that you’re leaving, which leaves a gap open somewhere else that and they have to do that for however long the hiring processes and right now the hiring process is long because everybody’s hiring oncology pharmacists and they can’t find people. But then they have to onboard that person. So it takes months for somebody to get up to speed. So it is a it’s like tens of thousands of dollars for people to, to for to recruit. So it is a huge cost savings to retain employees. That means keeping everybody happy. And and also potentially promoting from within. So I have centers that have pulled retail pharmacists, they have pulled ambulatory care pharmacists, which is a pretty good kind of matchup to oncology because they understand the am care space. And there’s actually a lot of internal medicine issues in primary care as well. And then, you know, they have to learn the oncology piece. So I think there’s a lot of financial benefit for institutions to train up their staff. So I look forward to working with with more of those. I’m always going to work with individual pharmacists, because that is honestly what fills my cup. Like there’s nothing, there’s no greater feeling than when a pharmacist reaches out to me and says, I passed the BCAP exam. Or I finally had a conversation with my doctor and didn’t feel like an idiot. Or I made a recommendation about this chemotherapy dosing and the doctor accepted it. Like, ah, those feelings just made me feel so good, because that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day. It’s not only that pharmacist’s gets that, that when and feels like they’re doing good work. But that patient is getting better care because their pharmacist feels more confident and is better educated, and I can’t ask for anything better than that.

Corrie Sanders 46:43

I hope that you can see the ripple effect that you’re creating by training these pharmacists. I mean, it’s I love that the pharmacist gratification fills your cup. But I really hope that you can see not only are you changing so many pharmacist’s lives with the business that you’ve created, but ultimately, the end user and the patient, you’re just improving care for so many more people than you could ever do alone. I love it. I love your business model. I think that it honestly could be applicable to some other specialty areas. For pharmacists that may not be an oncology, there’s certainly a way to leverage monetizing your clinical expertise in different ways and providing that to different pharmacists or other health care providers. I just think what you’ve done and what you’ve built is just something to be very proud of. So Kelley, I will end today with any advice that you would give to any budding pharmacy entrepreneurs, any lessons that you’ve learned along the way or anything that sticks out in your head that you’d like to convey to the listeners.

Kelley Carlstrom 47:39

Yeah, something that I consistently remind myself to do, which is take action. It really makes a bigger difference than then you think it will make. And I remember when I was in clinical practice, I had mentioned that I was risk averse. And for me how that played out was that I would research things to the Nth degree, you know. Whether it was a purchase I was making, whether it was a job decision, it took me months to take a consulting role, because I just kept making pro/con lists. And when I got into entrepreneurship, I realized like that that doesn’t fly, when you’re running a business, it just the time that you need to make decisions is very quick. And if you’re always second guessing yourself, it’s not you’re you’re not going to be successful. So what I would encourage people to do is have that experimenters mindset, which is I’m going to make a decision, I’m going to take some action on whatever this thing is I’m going to pull the trigger on trying out this piece of content or talking to this particular client or trying this new software tool, and then reevaluate it, like nothing is set in stone. So you can think about it a month later, six months later, and decide did that experiment work? Did that decision I made lead to anything to those clients, I was potential clients I was talking to actually buy for me? If a lot of them did great. That was a positive experiment. If they didn’t, no. That means, okay, I need to pivot and change course, it doesn’t mean it was a bad decision. There are no bad decisions in entrepreneurship. It’s just you have to get off of the table and start walking and start doing things. And that’s how you learn. I can’t tell you how many how many times I’ve done something where I’m like, Well, that was unexpected. And if it if it just took me, you know, if it took me months to make that decision, it would have taken me months to figure out that thing didn’t work or that thing didn’t work, you know, you got to make faster decisions in this world.

Corrie Sanders 49:33

And I really enjoy the experimenters mindset. I think that’s a great summary and a great way to put it and also just how you’re alluding to how we make decisions in clinical practice and how we might research decisions and how we might look into those things to the Nth degree. And maybe that shouldn’t necessarily carry over to your business mindset and how you’re running your business and entrepreneurship. Those are two very different, maybe the same skill set, but two very different applications with how you’re going to think about approaching those decision making processes and the time that you put into them. So I love that. I think that was wonderfully said. Well, Kelley, for the listeners that want to find you, they can obviously find you on LinkedIn. But is there any other way that people can find you, your website and I would love for you to also spell out your name to make sure that people get the spelling correctly. We’ll link to it in the show notes. But where else can our viewers and our listeners find you?

Kelley Carlstrom 50:26

Yeah, definitely LinkedIn. Send me a message there, please. And my website is KelleyCPharmD. So that’s Kelly, K-e-l-l-e-y C PharmD. C for my last name. Yes, my mom spelled my name that way. And I always have to spell it.

Corrie Sanders 50:44

Well, Kelley, thank you for your time. This was a wonderful conversation. I think there were a lot of great nuggets built into this conversation, a lot of great learning points that our listeners can take. So thank you again for your time. This was wonderful and we look forward to keeping pace with you and watching you as your business continues to develop.

Kelley Carlstrom 51:01

Thanks so much, I appreciate it.

[DISCLAIMER]

Tim Ulbrich 51:03

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 350: Monetizing Your Clinical Expertise with Dr. Gauthier (YFP Classic)

Posted on March 15, 2024March 15, 2024 by YFP Media

Tim Gauthier, PharmD, creator of two learning platforms shares advice for pharmacists seeking to monetize their clinical expertise. Episode sponsored by APhA.

Episode Summary

This week on the YFP Podcast, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, welcomes antimicrobial stewardship pharmacist and fellow pharmacy entrepreneur, Tim Gauthier. Tim is the creator of IDStewarship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com. During the show, Tim and Tim discuss the genesis for creating these two learning platforms, how Tim has monetized his clinical experience to create passive streams of income, and how he manages to stay consistent in entrepreneurship while balancing a full-time pharmacy career and fulfilling personal life.

Listeners will hear about Tim’s pathway to pharmacy, what drew him into the profession, his passion for infectious disease pharmacy, and what he was hoping to accomplish with his learning platforms, IDStwardship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com. Tim walks us through the content and resources available on his websites and how he has monetized them while providing a wealth of free content to his community.

Making things passive and generating passive revenue streams is crucial to Tim, and he shares the tools and systems he has put in place to make that goal possible while balancing other obligations. Tim also discusses the incredible value of community and how he has built an active, engaged pharmacists community that contributes to the platforms in multiple ways. Tim closes with advice for pharmacists looking to follow a similar path in monetizing their clinical expertise.

About Today’s Guest

Timothy P. Gauthier, Pharm.D., BCPS, BCIDP is a pharmacist trained in infectious diseases and antimicrobial stewardship. He is a clinician, researcher, educator, and author. He is an advocate for antimicrobial stewardship and pharmacy education.

Dr. Gauthier graduated from Northeastern University’s School of Pharmacy (Boston, MA) in 2008. He then completed a Post-Graduate Year-1 Pharmacy Practice Residency and a Post-Graduate Year-2 Infectious Diseases Pharmacy Residency at Jackson Memorial Hospital (Miami, FL). Since finishing terminal training he has worked in academia (Nova Southeastern University, 2010-2015), clinical practice (Miami Veterans Affairs Healthcare System, 2015-2019), and a leadership role (Baptist Health South Florida, 2019-current), all focusing on advancing the fields of infectious diseases pharmacy and antimicrobial stewardship.

He holds certifications from the Board of Pharmacy Specialties for Pharmacotherapy and Infectious diseases. He has completed the Making A Difference in Infectious Diseases Pharmacotherapy Antimicrobial Stewardship Training Program.

He is the creator and editor-in-chief of www.IDstewardship.com, www.LearnAntibiotics.com, and the many @IDstewardship social media profiles. He co-hosts the #ASPchat each month on Twitter. He reaches thousands of people each day on the internet and on social media, where he aims share reliable and relevant information from the world of pharmacy and healthcare in general. IDstewardship.com alone has registered over 5,00,000 page views as of November 2022.

Key Points from the Episode

The genesis for creating two learning platforms (IDStewardship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com)
How Dr. Gauthier has monetized his clinical expertise to create passive revenue streams
How Dr. Gauthier manages and leverages his time to be able to consistently put out good content while working full-time and fulfilling his personal commitments and goals

Episode Highlights

“So it’s been a really rewarding experience, and collaborating with others from around the world has been something an area of success, I think, to be part of kind of the community that I’ve built. But I have a lot of flexibility, and that’s one thing that a lot of organizations don’t have.” – Tim Gauthier

“But that’s what drives me because I just really am totally obsessed with infectious diseases and microbial stewardship, and I think people need help learning. I needed a lot of help learning. I see where there’s benefit. I see where there’s value. There’s some monetary benefit that comes with it. It’s not anything that’s extreme by any means. But by having that win-win, it’s really been something that I think has been worth pursuing.” – Tim Gauthier

“I think that’s kind of the most important thing I’ve learned when it comes to telling people you have something to share with them, showing them that it’s meaningful, getting them excited about it, showing them that you’re a reliable person that has the know-how to get them the resource that they need to succeed. That is really critical. So that’s kind of some of the messaging there.” – Tim Gauthier

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRO]

[00:00:00] T. ULBRICH: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I had a chance to welcome antimicrobial stewardship pharmacist and fellow pharmacy entrepreneur, Tim Gauthier. Tim is the creator of IDStewardship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com. During the show, Tim and I talk about the genesis for creating these two learning platforms, how Tim has monetized his clinical expertise, and how he manages and leverages his time to be able to consistently put out good content while working full-time and fulfilling his personal commitments and goals.

Before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 250 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

All right, let’s jump into my interview with pharmacist and entrepreneur, Tim Gauthier.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:21] T. ULBRICH: Tim, welcome to the show.

[00:01:23] T. GAUTHIER: Hey, thanks for having me. I’m really excited to be here. How are you, Tim?

[00:01:26] T. ULBRICH: I’m well. I’m excited to dig into the work that you’re doing and for you to share with the YFP community how you’ve been monetizing your clinical expertise. But before we jump into that, I’d love to learn about your journey into pharmacy school, into the profession, where you went to school, when you graduated, and what drew you into the profession of pharmacy.

[00:01:44] T. GAUTHIER: Oh, yeah, of course. So I went to Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts and graduated in 2008, which feels like yesterday, but it’s been four years now. I got into pharmacy because I really was interested in microbiology. It turns out it’s easier to transfer into microbiology from pharmacy than pharmacy to microbiology. So I started in pharmacy. I ended up sticking with it. I never thought I’d go into infectious diseases pharmacy, just because it didn’t really cross my mind, and I didn’t know much about that early in my years.

Then later on, after PGY1, I had the opportunity to do a PGY2 in ID. Lo and behold, today, I’m an infectious diseases-obsessed pharmacist, who’s out there to defend antibiotics and promote clinical pharmacy. So here we are today.

[00:02:27] T. ULBRICH: So the Northeast, Tim, to Florida. This is the time of year in the Northeast. I grew up in the Buffalo area, where it’s beautiful. I always say six months out of the year, I’d live anywhere else. But the Midwest I’m at now or the Northeast. But the other six months, included this time of year, is absolutely gorgeous. So do you miss the seasons at all?

[00:02:49] T. GAUTHIER: I do miss the seasons, but the winter in Miami, Florida, where I live now, is just absolutely wonderful. I love the culture, as well as all the different types of food here. We do visit. Periodically, I go to Boston, Rhode Island, Connecticut and stuff. So it’s nice to be able to have a little bit of the best of both worlds.

[00:03:06] T. ULBRICH: Yeah, yeah. So we connected several years back, and I’ve been following your work for some time. I wanted to bring you out in the show, as I think what you’ve built is a really cool example of how pharmacists can monetize their clinical expertise. Certainly, as we’ll talk about, it’s not just about the money, but it’s being able to leverage the skills, the passion, the interest that you have to fill a gap in the market and to help people looking to learn more about a topic.

Here, we’re going to be talking about infectious disease, of course, and we have featured a variety of individuals on the podcasts over the past year or so. So I’m excited to share your journey as well. So let’s start with IDStewardship.com. When and why did you start it? Who was it for? What were you hoping to accomplish?

[00:03:49] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. So IDStewardship.com has been alive since about 2016, and I just had a friend who knew how to build websites, and I wanted to build something on my own, and he offered to help and put it together. Then I kind of took off from there, and I do pretty much everything on my own now. When I have a technical problem, he comes in? But why did I do it? There’s a couple of reasons.

One is I wanted to own my own space on the Internet, where I could have a voice, where I could publish things and not be restricted by a company or a manager or a group of people. Also, I just really enjoy your writing. So it gave me an opportunity to use a different part of my brain on the weekends and in the evening hours to share information that could be open access and someone else could benefit from. There’s a huge need in pharmacy. It has been for us to share our experiences and practical advice and insights so that others can learn and grow from it.

Also, just sharing information about antibiotics to make it easier for people to understand what drugs can I use for MRSA or Pseudomonas. But then some deeper things like what are five things to know about, I don’t know, Stenotrophomonas or Acinetobacter. So really, it’s just a myriad of content these days. If you’re a pharmacy professional, if you’re a healthcare professional, there’s some stuff on there that you’ll be interested in. If you’re just looking for fun stuff, there’s a drug name emoji that people really, really seem to enjoy.

[00:05:03] T. ULBRICH: So I’m trying to understand, Tim, the need you’re filling with this resource. So obviously, we all went through ID curriculums in our PharmD program. There are there are PGY2 residencies that focus on this fellowships who focus on this. Certainly, there are associations or interest groups within associations that focus on this. So what is different here that you’re trying to carve out to fill a need that you felt like either wasn’t being met for you or for other clinicians through those other learning pathways?

[00:05:32] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. I didn’t do very well in ID in pharmacy school, ironically, and I didn’t feel comfortable with it until I was like halfway through my PGY2. Practical resources that are available that are insightful and that consider the things that are beyond just the obvious, those were lacking. That really motivated me to try to put out things that were interesting. But also, like when you go to practice, these are five things you need to know about [inaudible 00:05:55] come across [inaudible 00:05:57]. I think that the community has received it really well, but I use social media to amplify that voice in different social media platforms.

So it’s been a really rewarding experience, and collaborating with others from around the world has been something an area of success, I think, to be part of kind of the community that I’ve built. But I have a lot of flexibility, and that’s one thing that a lot of organizations don’t have.

[00:06:21] T. ULBRICH: Yes, yeah. The digestible nature of the content strikes me. You’ve alluded to it a couple of times with examples you’ve given thus far in the show. It reminds me of one of the pharmacist we’ve had on this show, Kelley Carlstrom, on episode 217. Her business called KelleyCPharmD. She does an awesome job of this in the pharmacy space, specifically in oncology practice, making it accessible, no matter where you are. She trained at the Cleveland Clinic, an internationally recognized institution. Not everyone can go do your residency there, right? Has the time to commit, potentially has to travel to do that.

Her vision really is what about all the other hospitals? What about all the rural healthcare settings that are trying to treat patients and get their clinical staff up to speed? Or perhaps different practice models that don’t have a lineup of board certified residency trained pharmacists with multiple credentials? How can we expand the accessibility of this content? That’s one of things I love about what you’re doing here, and it really does strike me as being much more accessible than what is out there and some more traditional training programs or those that are offered by other groups.

It’s also written and presented in a way that is easy to understand. It’s relevant. It’s things that, Tim, you’re experiencing daily as a clinician yourself or encounters when you’re precepting residents or students. So you know the pain points. You know the questions, the problems, the points of confusion because you’re living them each day. I love the platform of what you built to address that.

So take us, Tim, through IDStewardship.com, in terms of the content you have, the resources you offer, and how you’ve been able to monetize it, right? You give out a lot of great content for free. But you also been able to monetize the site and enable to reap some of the fruit for all the work that you’re putting in, and you’ve put in over the last seven years. So talk to us about what you offer and provide on the site and how you’ve been able to monetize that.

[00:08:14] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. I offered way too much stuff for free, probably. But exactly like an altruistic passion project, it has to make some kind of money for my wife to allow me to continue it. So definitely, it’s a mixed bag. But the art of the IDStewardship.com offers articles, which are blog articles talking about the student experience, the pharmacist experience, clinical insights into common questions that we ask and that we see. Those are always written by content experts who have practical experience in the area, and I vet all that content to make sure it’s reliable, credible, and it goes beyond like the obvious content that you might find in a general article.

Also, there’s a study guide section, which is free and open access that has a picture of the drug, some of my key points, which I think you might find on your pharmacy school exams or maybe the BCPS or BCIDP exam and then links to some of the articles or some of the guidelines that are really relevant to that drug. I have a list of resources, which is pretty cool. If you’re looking for anything about antibiotics, that is a very robust list of resources. So like hepatitis C screening for Child-Pugh score. There’s a calculator in there. Just pick one random example. Or even if you’re looking for regulatory content from the Joint Commission, it’s linked there.

I also have the contributor section, where you can see who’s participated, and there’s really a lot of contributors to my website. So I do want to emphasize that that’s a really cool part of what I’ve been able to do, and it’s not just Tim doing it. It’s the community. But I kind of lead it because I’m kind of like the editor in chief of the content founder. The other part, though, which I really want to talk about for a second is LearnAntibiotics.com. So I’ve taken the opportunity to show people that, yes, these are articles that are available. But I’ve been able to produce content that you can use for learning. As a background in academia, I know that you have to go and be able to identify and define before you can analyze and assess and predict.

So I’ve built content specifically to help people through that learning process. If you’re looking to identify and define, I have cheat sheets on different disease states, on different drug classes. Those can help people to say, okay, like, “Pseudomonas drugs, these are my drugs.” But then I also make more fun content that has like a word search or a Jeopardy game. Those can be applied to the specific area. Then the practice tests I’ve built so that if you are able to pass that practice test, you can practice pretty competently as a pharmacist and know what questions to ask for infectious diseases and even some of them I’ll give you. Here’s the question, here’s the answer, and here’s the rationale for why each answer is right, and each answer is wrong. So it’s pretty robust.

[00:10:59] T. ULBRICH: I love that and I want to come back in a little bit to talk more about the LearnAntibiotics.com, in terms of what you’re trying to accomplish there. I think that’s going to give some folks some interesting ideas about as you’re considering monetizing your clinical expertise, there’s a lot of different ways to do that. I love what you’ve built there with that membership type of model.

Two words, Tim, that really stand out about what you’ve built and the vision that you have going forward are passion and community. You mentioned community just a moment ago, and I love that you’ve brought together a group of people that are, obviously, passionate about learning more about antimicrobial stewardship, learning more about infectious disease, bringing in contributors to the site, taking them from just a passive learner, to engaging them in the conversation, contributing to the community, and then passion. Your passion for this topic and furthering individuals’ knowledge and, obviously, the more our healthcare professionals know about this topic, the better they’re able to serve their patients.

I think this is so important for folks to hear, when you’re working on a side hustle or a business, especially when you’re working a full-time job, you have lots of other commitments, doing something that you’re passionate about, you mentioned that I probably got too much free content out there, right? It’s a passion project for you. Yes, you’re monetizing it. But that is going to really drive the energy and the enthusiasm to continue to build, especially in the early years, as someone who’s trying to get something off the ground.

Tim, as people go to IDStewardship.com and they see what you’ve built over several years, how much of this is what you have built and maintained? And how much of this is what you have other people that are helping you in building and maintaining the site?

[00:12:36] T. GAUTHIER: That’s a great question, and it’s definitely changed over time. When I started to look at developing a website, I talked to one of my friends who’s in website development, and he said, “Tim, we can do a website. But this is not a six-month thing, and this is not a one-year thing. This is like a 10-year journey, and you have to think of it very long-term.” So taking small bites has been one of the keys to success. As I’ve understood the workflows on developing different items, it’s gotten to be more efficient over time. I do produce actually the majority of the content on my own when it comes to the background work.

But the one thing that people send to the community of pharmacists, they’re willing to be a part of this journey. Them sending me articles and communicating with me and offering their assistance and trying to get their message out and share their passion, that really has enabled me to produce more content and put more information out there. But it is a tremendous amount of work. I do spend a lot of time between the hours of 8:00 PM and 11:00 PM working on this type of stuff. I think if you don’t have the passion for it, it’s probably going to be hard to do it long term.

But that’s what drives me because I just really am totally obsessed with infectious diseases and microbial stewardship, and I think people need help learning. I needed a lot of help learning. I see where there’s benefit. I see where there’s value. There’s some monetary benefit that comes with it. It’s not anything that’s extreme by any means. But by having that win-win, it’s really been something that I think has been worth pursuing.

One of the secrets that they say is not to do things alone, right? If you’re going to build a program like this, or you’re going to build a side business. I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand, I love the freedom that I have. I have total creative freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want, with no one arguing with me. But at the same time, being in an echo chamber with yourself is not always a positive thing, and having a partner can push you in good directions. So I think partnerships are important, and you can choose to pursue things as a partnership or as an individual.

Something else I want to note that as I built out what I have online with IDStewardship is I’ve really purposely tried to make it about the brand and not about me. That kind of protects me in a way because the voice is the voice of the brand and not the voice of the individual. Also, people can engage within behind that brand and be a part of the community again, rather than it being part of what Tim is doing. So that was actually very strategic in the development.

[00:15:02] T. ULBRICH: Yeah, Tim. I think that’s a strategic move for the reason you mentioned also. I think about the passion and the mission of what you’re trying to do. Like there may be a day where maybe this isn’t only Tim who’s doing this. Or for whatever reason, you have others that are involved in the mission of advancing the education around IDStewardship and being able to have this information accessible, where folks can learn and perhaps be excited about learning it I think transcends just one person, right? So I think the contributors is another important aspect here of what you’ve highlighted.

[00:15:34] T. GAUTHIER: Like making things passive is also really important to me. I’ve learned that a lot during COVID because COVID has been absolutely horrible for all infectious diseases pharmacists and time management and when life was balanced. I mean, everybody in general. But I mean, trying to keep up with the literature and be engaged, on top of having this site and stuff going on, I need things to be able to put on pause, right? If I have no commitments that I’ve made, that’s not going to serve me well in the long term. So I really try to do things that are passive whenever possible and then only commit to like a couple of things at a time.

[00:16:05] T. ULBRICH: Yeah. One other thing I was thinking about, Tim, as I was looking at your site, that would be I think good advice for folks that are thinking about building their own, especially if they don’t have a huge budget upfront to be able to hire a web developer. If you’re building a content-based site, it could be blog articles that you’re adding, podcasts that you’re adding, e-resources that you’re adding checklists, guides, e-books, whatever, like you want to make sure you’re building it in a way that you understand and can add to it on a regular basis.

So even if you’re working with a developer or a contractor to help you, making sure you have enough understanding of the back end so that you’re not spending a whole lot of money long-term or frustrated that each time you’re trying to add a piece of content to the site, whether that’s a blog, podcast, an opt-in guide, whatever be the case, that you want to be able to have something that’s nimble, and you can add to over time.

[00:16:51] T. GAUTHIER: I’ve seen some people who built 20,000, 25,000-dollar websites, and they tend to be the people that follow a lot of podcasters in the space of like social media and engagement and business development. So I think if you’re committed to it, it can be worth the money. But you got to proceed with caution.

[00:17:10] T. ULBRICH: When I go to the site, Tim, and you mentioned already that LearnAantibiotics.com, www.learnantibiotics.com, we’ll link to that in the show notes, which takes you over to the IDStewardship site, that really is the membership portion of the site, where folks can be engaging with the community on an ongoing basis. Obviously, the goal there is that becomes some stability of recurring revenue that supports a lot of the time and effort and the free content that you’re putting out there.

Talk to us about – I think in content marketing, and I hesitate to use that word because I feel like you’re leading with such good passion and education that sometimes that word can sound dirty. But ultimately, the value that you’re providing and really good free rich education is naturally going to make people aware of what you’re doing on the membership side, which has a recurring revenue potential.

So what has your strategy or approach been to connect the free content with the membership model? Is it just that, hey, more eyeballs on the site and value that they’ll kind of find their way over there? Is it opt-ins that then point people to that resource? Tell us more about the strategy that you’ve employed to connect the free education people are viewing and receiving with some of the paid options you have.

[00:18:24] T. GAUTHIER: For sure. As you’re saying, this, I’m thinking about how I need to be more strategic. Sometimes, just go with the flow. That feels good. That feels good. Sometimes, I think of things, and I’m like, “Oh, I wish I had done that.” Even right now, there’s a list of things that if I had the time in my life to do, I would totally do.

But in general, what I try to do is capture a large audience and engage a large audience and do that through all these different ways that I think of, whether it’s something that’s like a clickable link on an Instagram story, or it’s a new blog post that I put out, or it’s putting a meme out there or just sharing like, “Hey, here’s like a part of my cheat sheet. If you’d like to see more of it like, shoot me your email address. I’ll shoot you a copy of this cheat sheet in full.” Then I have a way to communicate with those individuals. So if you’re just interested in the LearnAntibotics site or you’re interested in like all of IDStewardship, and you want to get our monthly newsletter, I’m able to reach you that way.

Another thing that’s important about having a mail listing is that if like tomorrow, Instagram decides to just delete my account, which they can’t, I have nothing. I’m left with nothing. Whereas since I have a Mailchimp account, they’re able to house my ability to communicate with my people. So in general, I provide something for free. I get the ability to contact these people. If you want to unsubscribe, I have no problem with that. Actually, when people unsubscribe, I don’t have to pay for you to be on my listserv anymore. I actually don’t mind at all. So if you don’t look at the newsletters we send out, feel free to unsubscribe. But if you want to subscribe, then we’d love to communicate with you.

I think that’s kind of the most important thing I’ve learned when it comes to telling people you have something to share with them, showing them that it’s meaningful, getting them excited about it, showing them that you’re a reliable person that has the know-how to get them the resource that they need to succeed. That is really critical. So that’s kind of some of the messaging there.

[00:20:18] T. ULBRICH: Yeah. I think one of the other things you’ve done really well, Tim, that I admire is you’re consistent in your content. We know and we’ll talk in a moment about how you balance time with other personal responsibilities. None of us are perfect and consistent in delivering the same amount of material, but you’ve been consistent over the years in terms of there’s not months and months of like quiet phases, and then you dump a bunch of content.

I think that’s so important for any – If we think about communities we like to be a part of or content we like to follow, it’s a consistent offering that we’re engaging with that content. So as you’re getting started, as someone’s getting started, I think thinking about what is – Once you decide on the medium, is it a blog, is it a podcast, whatever you’re looking at, is it something like a vlog, what is going to be your rhythm roughly that you’re going to be delivering content and making sure you’re showing up on a consistent basis with your audience and those that are finding value from what you’re doing?

[00:21:10] T. GAUTHIER: Along those lines, I think listening to your community is important. I had someone email me recently and say, “Hey, Tim. I wish you had a malaria cheat sheet because I’m studying for the BCIDP exam or the BCPS exam,” I forget which. I made one that weekend, and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was super interesting. I learned a bunch about malaria. So not only does it like help people advance their professional goals. It helps me remember things. I use my websites all the time to remember some of these nuances that are details that are just – You can’t remember everything.

[00:21:40] T. ULBRICH: That’s where I think the community piece comes in well too. You’ve got a good social media following. I’m sure people reach out to your questions all the time. You have students on rotation. You start to put some of those repeated questions into content buckets, right? I know you have a list of running content ideas. I’m sure you do. But once you hear a question more than one, two, or three times, it’s like, all right, maybe there’s something here in terms of a piece of content that we should be putting out.

Let’s talk about time and balancing doing this. You’ve certainly made a strong case that there’s a lot of passion behind it. But nonetheless, like you’ve got a family. You’re working a full-time job. You’re precepting residents, students. You have expectations at home and at work. Like what strategies have you employed time blocking, or how have you been able to really leverage time so that you can continue to put out content on a consistent basis while working full-time?

[00:22:31] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. Well, in the early days, and I was working at the Veterans Affairs Hospital in Miami, and they’re very strict in terms of their hours. So when you’re off duty, you’re off time. So everything that I did in the beginning was during off hours. That’s still the same today, but it taught me that you should only work on these things when you’re not on company resources, etc.

But then I didn’t have small children in the early days, which meant I have had a lot more time, especially in the evening areas of the day. More recently, I have a three-year-old and a seven-year-old, and the evening hours are much more strenuous. So now, since we’ve developed more of an awareness in the community about IDStewardship, I reach out to people. When I see an article posted on like Twitter about something new that I’m interested in, I’ll reach out to the person who authored the article and say, “Hey, I’d love to have you write five things to know about whatever the topic is.”

People almost always say yes because they want to share their passion. But it’s not just about me getting content. They now have a way to share that information. Sometimes, it’s the resident or the student or the second or third author that I work with. So they get an opportunity to share their voice. Coming up with strategies where I don’t have to do all the work has been one thing. Then also, like when you look at the development of like research and scholarly work in an academic position, you kind of look at it like a conveyor belt, and you want projects in all areas of your conveyor belt.

Some things are in – You’re designing. What do you think it might look like, and you have your concepts, your list of projects? Then other things are going into publication, going out on the newsletter. So you’re constantly just like feeding that conveyor belt and keeping it going in different areas, and that’s how you stay productive over a long period of time. It’s not about taking one thing and rushing it forward but just maintaining that conveyor belt. There might be different conveyor belts that go faster or slower, and some things might take two years to do.

But I always move forward with projects based upon what I think is like fun and interesting, and I don’t put pressure on people. I’m not out there saying, “Hey, if you don’t get back to me in two weeks, you’re not going to be allowed to do this.” If you don’t feel like doing this later because you have a problem, whatever. Don’t do it. If you want to circle back in two years, circle back into years, like no pressure.

[00:24:39] T. ULBRICH: Take us a little bit behind the scenes. I think one of the barriers that folks run into is they’re just trying to get started, and they go to someone’s site. They don’t necessarily have a picture of what are some of the tools and the systems and the processes that you have in place. You’ve mentioned a couple things already. Obviously, you’ve got the website infrastructure. You mentioned the email list. So like for us, we use WordPress for our website build. We use Bluehost for our domain hosting. We use ActiveCampaign for our email marketing. Then we have several other tools we use for project management and other things.

So what are some of the tools that you use or that you have found to be helpful as you’ve been working on IDStewardship?

[00:25:18] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah, for sure. I use WordPress, and then I use WPX Hosting. Then for like the memberships, it’s PMPro or Paid Memberships Pro. I’ve been pretty happy with those overall. The WordPress in particular, it’s just overall really easy to use. You add a plug in. It updates. It’s no big deal. WPX is really – Once a year, I pay a fee. Once in a while, I’ll have a bandwidth issue. So I’ve learned that I need to downsize the images that I use when I post, which I think a lot of people kind of learn that lesson.

I mean, that’s really the gist of it. Outside that, I use Mailchimp for my emails. I don’t really love how much they charge. I think they’re charging me like 250 a month for like 25,000 subscribers. So it’s great to have that many subscribers, but it doesn’t feel good paying $2,500 a year for that. But it also motivates me to put out content to use that tool that I’m paying for. So those are some of the key things that I’m using now.

Otherwise, I just maintained like Excel sheets for a while. In the beginning, when I didn’t have as much content, I would do a lineup, and I would remind myself of when I posted to Facebook about a specific blog post, and I would just keep cycling through them. So I was always posting like one thing a day on Facebook. But it’s gotten to the point that I can’t do that anymore. I’d need to hire like a social media manager or something like that. I think as you grow, you need to start considering how can you work with who can you bring in.

Another thing is as I’ve kind of met people in life through my way or through other venues, I work with them. So I just met a guy over the weekend that he prints things for a living, right? So there’s so much opportunity for us to collaborate with printing things. My audience is interested in topics of pharmacy and infectious diseases. So being entrepreneurial is one of the definitely keys to success here and also not being stuck in your ways, being able to evaluate things, and then accept feedback. If it’s not going well and someone tells you it’s not going well, take that advice and see how you can make it better and ask them, “Hey, how can I make this better?”

[00:27:13] T. ULBRICH: Yes, great advice, Tim. I think for people that are listening, and they hear 25,000 people on an email list and again not getting paralyzed from Jump Street. I think I love what you shared of it was a spreadsheet to begin with, right? I’ve shared before on this podcast that the first 100 subscribers on our email list were a combination of text messages and Facebook messages and LinkedIn posts that I had, and that eventually got added to an email software. Eventually, we added automations. Eventually, we added opt-in funnels and all those things, project management, social media management tools, things like that. But just getting started, you can do a lot of that manually. Get some of the things off the ground. Then as you get momentum, you can build out the systems and the processes that will help with efficiencies.

Tim, if someone is listening and they are on the very front end of this, so let’s just pick another specialty that’s out there, and they’re thinking, “I’d love to build something in this domain, similar to what I see Tim doing with IDStewardship, Kelley doing with oncology. I also think about what Jimmy Pruitt’s doing with acute care out there in pharmacy,” like what advice would you have with them at the very beginning of their journey? If you think back to where you were when you started in 2015, like now looking back seven years later, like what piece of advice would you have to share with them as they get started on this journey?

[00:28:33] T. GAUTHIER: Well, I mean, first of all, not just because I – If I say something, it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. So it’s just my opinion on some of this. So feel free to disagree. But one thing I feel is that, especially when it comes to social media, people go on Twitter, on TikTok, on Facebook because they’re looking for things for themselves. So if you’re not putting out things that are going to be interesting to your audience, then your audience is not going to grow like they should.

So everything that you do, no matter what you’re doing, should be aligned with why your audience is going to that area, and that’s going to help to get them to like it, get them to share it, which is very, very difficult in the pharmacy profession. We’re like 90% passive users. We love to learn.

[00:29:11] T. ULBRICH: That’s right.

[00:29:13] T. GAUTHIER: I’ll post something on Facebook, man, and it’s like five likes. But then I’ll see that I got 250 link clicks. So it’s very interesting. From an outside, you might look at my Facebook page or something and say, “Oh, I got a couple of likes or clicks,” and you can’t see the clicks, but you’ll only see a couple of likes, and they got lots of clicks. So it’s kind of one thing that’s important, I think, as you’re starting off.

Another thing about starting off would probably be considered like long-term how you’re going to grow, and you’re talking about the design of your product. I think that core message and that core what am I doing here is really important. Over time, is that going to change? Because if it’s focused on something that’s relevant now like COVID, for example, or moneypox, maybe that’s not relevant in two years from now.

[00:29:59] T. ULBRICH: It’s pretty cool. Yep, absolutely. That’s great stuff, Tim. I’m excited for our listeners, if they’re not already aware to follow the journey, and I hope they’ll opt in your newsletter. Where is the best place that folks can go to follow you and the journey and the work that you’re doing?

[00:30:16] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. I mean, definitely IDStewardship.com, and you can sign up for our newsletter there or just follow along on Instagram or our Facebook or goods areas. Twitter, you can find me there as well. It’s a little bit more focused on infectious diseases and as a whole and staying up with the literature on Twitter. So either of those but the newsletters are really a good place to start.

[00:30:37] T. ULBRICH: Awesome. Thanks, Tim. Appreciate you taking time to come on the show.

[00:30:39] T. GAUTHIER: Oh, it was my pleasure. We’ve worked together for so long over the years. It’s really a wonderful opportunity for me, and I appreciate your time.

[00:30:46] T. ULBRICH: Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:30:47] T. ULBRICH: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

Thank you, again, for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 344: Beyond the ER: The Entrepreneurial Journey of Dr. Jimmy Pruitt

Posted on February 1, 2024February 1, 2024 by YFP Media

Jimmy Pruitt, PharmD, Founder & CEO of Pharmacy & Acute Care University, shares insights on his entrepreneurial journey and the EMPower Rx Conference.

Episode Summary

In this week’s episode, join us as we sit down with Dr. Jimmy Pruitt, a Clinical Pharmacy Specialist in Emergency Medicine at Atrium Health. Dr. Pruitt wears multiple hats as the Founder & CEO of Pharmacy & Acute Care University and the brains behind the EMPowerRx Conference. Our conversation delves into his fascinating entrepreneurial journey, exploring the roots of why and how he embarked on this path.

Throughout the episode, we gain valuable perspectives on the intricacies of balancing professional commitments and entrepreneurial endeavors. Dr. Pruitt shares his experiences, lessons learned, and the strategies he employed to overcome obstacles on his journey. Dr. Pruitt also shares his vision for the EMRower Rx Conference – a unique conference and continuing education experience for professionals in emergency medicine pharmacotherapy.

Tune in to this insightful conversation with Dr. Jimmy Pruitt to glean wisdom from his unique blend of clinical expertise and entrepreneurial spirit. Whether you’re navigating the realms of healthcare, entrepreneurship, or both, this episode offers valuable insights and inspiration for the road ahead.

About Today’s Guests

Dr. Jimmy Pruitt is originally from Orlando, FL, and is a combination of nerd and gym junky having a background as a division 1 cornerback then turned Doctor of Pharmacy from Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy in 2017. He completed a PGY-1 Pharmacy Residency at Florida Hospital Orlando, and then went on to Grady Health System in Atlanta GA for his PGY2 Emergency Medicine Residency. Dr. Pruitt is currently an Emergency Medicine Clinical Pharmacy Specialist at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, SC.

Dr. Pruitt was honored with the Excellence in Diversity from MUSC College of Pharmacy, Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy (PCSP) Alumni of the Year, and keynote speaker for the 2021 PCPS graduation. Dr. Pruitt’s professional interests include cardiac arrest, shock syndromes, trauma, and hosting the #1 Emergency Medicine Pharmacy Podcast “Pharm So Hard” and operation his new pharmacy academy called Pharmacy & Acute Care University.

Key Points from the Episode

Entrepreneurship and pharmacy with Dr. Jimmy. [0:00]
Entrepreneurship, pharmacy, and education with Jimmy Pruitt. [1:37]
Validating a gap in the market for pharmacist-created acute care content. [6:21]
Overcoming fear and taking the first step in starting a podcast. [12:01]
Balancing full-time work and business as a creator. [16:10]
Growing a team and delegating tasks. [22:53]
Business growth and vision for a pharmacy education company. [29:02]
Emergency medicine pharmacotherapy conference. [34:56]
Emergency medicine and pharmacotherapy conference. [39:25]

Episode Highlights

“The biggest thing that people say is like sometimes you have to just jump and you just have to do all these different things. And I’m like, I have a family, one. So that really kind of changes the dynamic. It’s not just me making this big shift, but I want to make sure that I was able to consistently get that number.” – Jimmy Pruitt [18:37]

“But I’ve noticed as I continue doing both of this, me being a business owner and being very focused as being the president, CEO, whatever the title you want to give yourself when you’re when you’re starting out, it actually made me a better employee.” – Jimmy Pruitt [19:09]

“So as I looked at the component of making sure I’m meeting that output, that I need to be able to consider stepping back, I also realized there was so much more value, because now I’m able to understand other people’s problems.” – Jimmy Pruitt [20:29]

“But learning more at the job and understanding the problems that they have, and other people like them have, has made me be able to understand the market, and how I can potentially use that in the future. But more importantly, my skills as a business owner, has allowed me to be able to solve problems that early in my career, and earlier, you know, in places I’ve been people don’t necessarily think about.” – Jimmy Pruitt [21:58]

“I think when looking at growing a team and really get into that first step of, I want to bring someone else into this, especially when you’re talking full time employment. The very first employee that I hired a couple of years back was just my virtual assistant. And one of the first aspects I realized was a very big challenge of mine was, how do I explain what’s in my head that I do every day?” -JImmy Pruitt [25:03]

“The big thing that I believe that I’m trying to accomplish over again, this next five to seven years is to make this to where we have one unified goal and mission we’re trying to do: provide high quality education related to pharmacotherapy.” – Jimmy Pruitt [31:20]

“I want to provide a home for those individuals and I want I want them to be able to have a home, whether they’re gonna be the consumer, or the producer.” – Jimmy Pruitt [32:42]

“And we want to figure out, how can we do it as for us and by us, instead of someone else creating it and thinking they know what we want. Why don’t we just create it from the ground up?” – Jimmy Pruitt [38:01]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

EMPowerRx Conference 2024 (use code YFP2024 for 15% off registration)
YFP Episode 284
Start by Jon Acuff
Procrastinate on Purpose by Rory Vaden
Your Financial Pharmacist
Your Financial Pharmacist on Facebook
Your Financial Pharmacist on Instagram
Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
Jimmy Pruitt on LinkedIn
YFP Disclaimer
YFP Newsletter
Pharm So Hard Podcast

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I welcome Dr. Jimmy Pruitt, a clinical pharmacy specialist in emergency medicine at Atrium Health, Founder and CEO of Pharmacy and Acute Care University and Founder and CEO of the Empower RX Conference. We discuss his entrepreneurial journey, including how and why he got started, why he has maintained full-time employment, challenges going from creator to solopreneur, to building a team and the vision for the business over the next five to 10 years. I’m excited to announce our partnership with the 2024 Empower RX conference, a leading event in emergency medicine pharmacotherapy. This year it’s happening in Charlotte, North Carolina on April 26-April 27. I’ll be there and hope to see you there as well. It’s ideal for pharmacists, physicians, PAs, nurses and others in the field. Empower RX offers more than 10 CPE credits, insights from top experts, interactive workshops and groundbreaking research. It’s not just a conference, it’s a community focused experience, fostering learning and networking in a welcoming environment. Take advantage of discounted registration available to the YFP community by using code YFP2024 for 15% off. Again, that’s code YFP2024 or 15%. You can join in person or virtually registered now at EmpowerRX-conference.com and elevate your emergency medicine skills. Again, that’s EmpowerRX-conference.com.

Tim Ulbrich 01:35

Jimmy, welcome back to the show.

Jimmy Pruitt 01:37

Hey, thanks for having me on again. And it’s been great.

Tim Ulbrich 01:40

So our listeners might remember you back from Episode 284, where we discussed your experiences monetizing your clinical expertise, we’ll link to that episode in the show notes so that folks can dig a little bit deeper. We’ll have some crossover here as well to bring people up to speed. But we certainly did a deeper dive in that episode. And Jimmy, for those that didn’t catch that episode and aren’t already familiar with you and your work, give us a brief introduction to your background and pharmacy and the work that you’re doing now with Atrium Health, as well as being the Founder and CEO of Pharmacy and Acute Care University and the Founder and CEO of the Empower RX Conference.

Jimmy Pruitt 02:14

Thank you. And that’s a mouthful for a lot of you guys. But again, I’m Jim Pruitt. Again, I’m by training at clinical pharmacy specialist at Atrium Health here in Charlotte, a Level One Trauma center, academic, Medical Center, all those great things. And then, in my spare time or lack lack thereof, I like to start off as being a content creator with this pharmacy PEARLS and just having different things that I can give my providers, then that really led to something else led to a podcast called Pharm So Hard. And once that happened, it was really the genesis of something special, I believe. It led to an audience of 1000s of people who didn’t know how to interest in acute care pharmacotherapy, and then from there trying to figure out how to solve the problems that they had. So that led to the next thing, the next thing being after 100. And so episodes Pharm So Hard led to Pharmacy and Acute Care University. And all that really is it just an academy that helps people, pharmacists in particular, with continuing education, but more particularly going to be for board certification prep. So whether you’re studying for your BCPS, or our most popular product that be CMP, your emergency medicine pharmacotherapy, or certification. That is where I spend a lot of my time- question banks, practice exams. And is making a lot of the content that goes along with that. And it’s just been phenomenal to see that growth. And what that led to is people saying, oh, man, I wish I had a place to go to talk about these things versus just studying for it, which led to the Empower RX Conference. So I think, long story short, I am an educator that started to understand the business a little bit more and continuing to learn what business is, and really is focused on how can I not just bring myself along, but how can I bring other people with me to understand the business side of things and monetize their expertise and content?

Tim Ulbrich 04:08

We’re gonna talk a lot about that on this episode, Jimmy, I want to pick your brain have you know, you started with with an idea identified a problem that needed to be solved starting to solve that problem, which opened up more doors built community in this niche, which is really exciting. And now as you enter this growth phase, you know, there’s exciting opportunities and challenges with, Hey, how does this grow beyond the hours that you have in the day? Right? And what what what challenges may that bring? I want to first ask you that I was I was stalking you on LinkedIn and noticed in your headline, you have four different words creator, connector, educator, and pharmacist. Do one of those resonate more with you than the others and why?

Jimmy Pruitt 04:49

I think that is that’s a very, that’s a great question for one, but I think it it depends, like a good lawyer would say it depends. It depends on what I’m doing. And I think as I look at the different platforms that I’m currently in, I tend to be on one side more than other depending on that particular project. So I like to say, the biggest thing is like, I can be a connector, because again, most of everything I’m doing is usually not just myself, I’m usually bringing different people on whether that’s going to be at work. And I’m working with a provider, and a nurse is having a concern about something, I’m connecting those two and that problem and trying to also provide a solution. The same thing for when I’m in my pacu, where my pack you have, well, a potential customer has a problem. They want to be board certified, and I’m trying to connect them with the best highest quality information that helps them get to their end goal. And my conference, prospective people want a place to come. So I’m literally physically now connecting them with other people throughout the world in emergency medicine, pharmacotherapy. So I think connectors the the one thing I can say, but realistically, I have to be all of those other things, to be able to be a good connector. I have to be a great pharmacist, I have to be entrepreneur to make these things happen consistently. And I have to be kind of a creator to be able to have that audience to begin with. So I think connectors the one word, but I think depending on what hat I’m wearing, is really just depends on that location.

Tim Ulbrich 06:21

Well, we say it depends on this podcast often. So that is that is welcome. But I appreciate what you’re what you’re sharing there. I want I want to dig deeper in a few areas that I see come up often with aspiring entrepreneurs and side hustlers that I talk with. And you know, one of the first things is really what was the beginning? Like, right, so the genesis of starting the side hustle that’s turned into a business, obviously, you have many, many different activities that you’re doing within that business. You know, tell us a little bit more about the problem that you are trying to solve and how you identify there is a gap and a need in the market. And I know you shared that briefly already. But you know, a natural question might be well, like Jimmy, aren’t these pharmacists already part of other organizations or, you know, cohorts where they’re able to gather other societies and so forth. So what stood out to you as an opportunity in the market that wasn’t already being served that you said, Hey, not only am I a part of this community, but I feel like my peers, my colleagues could also, you know, come together and we can provide value?

Jimmy Pruitt 07:22

Absolutely. So I think one of the things we look at, and I think the very first problem I wanted to solve was providing high quality education in the acute care space. So if we look, one of the things that is very common is that from a oncology standpoint, from a transplant, those medications that are branded still they have a lot of great continuing education out there. Because again, there’s grants, there’s different incentives for companies to make that content. And a lot of those get heavily represented. But from an acute care standpoint, a lot of things from a pharmacotherapy perspective was not necessarily being created by pharmacists. And emergency medicine in the pharmacy space is my first you know, love within this, but I realized that emergency medicine has everything is critical care is ambulatory care is all these other spaces. So I realized that there wasn’t pharmacist created content that was detailed, that was detailed, but also a concise so that we can see it and be actionable. And that was the aftermath of creating the pharmacy Frothy Pearls series that I created when I was a PGY2 resident at Grady. Once that kind of became the first thing I was like, Okay, well, the problem trying to solve is providing high quality education, from a pharmacist perspective in the acute care space, that is highly assessable. That was kind of a next branch with the audience that I was able to generate from from farm so hard, I realized that, hey, I’m already providing education, but I didn’t necessarily consider it to be very different and very unique. But then the audience would tell me these things. And after you start to look, you kind of change your perspective on how you’re looking at your interactions with people want to online, you realize, hey, I have a model here, from a business perspective that I can sustain because most of it, you know, I would love to direct you away for free every day. But it’s not sustainable. Yeah. And that was kind of the first component of finding pharmacist-created acute care, physical therapy information that was concise, but also provide them continuing education as well.

Tim Ulbrich 09:25

My next question was around validation. And how do you validate that that gap truly exists? You know, one of the traps, especially early on in a business as a hey, I’ve got a great idea. I’m gonna kind of run hard and then you realize, oh, wait a minute, like the problem that I thought needed to be solved. Either I’m in misalignment or maybe it’s not as big of a problem as I thought, you know, others may think and so you partly answered that when you said, hey, you know, through the podcasts, obviously, seeing your listeners getting some feedback, you are getting real time information that I’m sure shaped your next steps. Was there anything you did prior to starting that podcast as a PGY2 to validate the problem that needed to be solved, or was that the first step in?

Jimmy Pruitt 10:05

I think it was the first step. I would love to say that I had this aesthetic plan and things of that nature. But realistically, the first two years I was in business, I didn’t know I was in business. Yeah, because I wasn’t charging anything. I think that part of the equation that I didn’t look at what’s the value I was providing, and whether or not that was something that could be sold as a resume. And I think within pharmacy in general, we get so used to just providing a lot of content. And we’re just doing it for just the validation of our colleagues and just to provide great education. But I think the first piece that helped me understand the business aspect of it was when we started creating some of these, you know, hour long presentations, people said, hey, you know, is this for continuing education? And I said, Well, I can get it for but I didn’t realize the process, go through that. And then I remember saying, Hey, how can I get this credential? Is this AACPE certified? It’s like, oh, it’s a price tag to that. Yeah. And then the first step, like, how do I get that taken care of versus me just paying out of pocket a significant amount of money for one hour? I think the first the very first time I did this, three years ago, the credit hours was like $600 for one hour CE. And I was like, Well, if I have 100, people come to this, and we break this down, I think, you know, a few bucks would wouldn’t be horrible for me to do it. So I think that was the first step. But I think I don’t, it made me just think differently. That was the very first trigger to realize, like, hey, if I’m gonna sustain this, I have to figure out a way to monetize it, to just cover the basics of what I’m doing. I think that was the very first step in realizing people were okay with that. Not as many as I thought, initially. There’s a certain amount of people that was okay with that. And I realized that if I can scale it to any degree, it may be something that I can build build upon.

Tim Ulbrich 12:01

And speaking of first steps, you know, I often will will talk with folks that have an idea. But taking that idea, and taking the first step to begin implementation. It’s scary, right? I mean, you know, even when you do the validation of the idea, it’s one thing if people say, I’m interested, I’m gonna pay for it. It’s another thing if they actually show up and pay for it. And as you and I both know, you can assume some much lower percentage than then people may report. And so my question here is, how were you able to be comfortable with taking that first step, and maybe as a PGY2 resident, you know, maybe the pressures off a little bit, and you weren’t yet thinking about as a business, but even that, I’ve talked with pharmacists that are like, Hey, I’ve got a great idea. But, you know, to run a podcast, I got to do A, B, and C, and I got to worry about the microphone and editing and hosting, and yada, yada, yada. And soon enough, there’s no action. Right? There’s no action. And my question for you is, how were you able to take that important first step, that important first action, from which even though you didn’t know you’re in business, from what you would eventually learn and get feedback that would become the foundation of the business?

Jimmy Pruitt 13:09

Yeah, I think that the first step for me, and I would love again, to say that it was it was just phenomenal intuition and I was great, but it really came from mentorship. To be honest, the first thing was that someone, one of my mentors, John Paca, wanted to hear a podcast episode done by me. And he, he, I remember him mentioned, he’s my RPD, he’s my mentor, he was like, I want you to be yourself. And I want you to be different than everyone else. And that was the first thing he wanted me to do. So I think the process went from me having an idea to someone really pushing me and said they want to hear it. So the result was always him hearing this versus me starting it. So I think that was the first goal initially was that, hey, how let me produce this first episode, so he can hear it? Yeah. And that was the end result of the very first task or create this first pearl. So I can present it to these individuals because it’s part of my residency objectives. So I had like this end goal that I started while I was still in residency, but I think the biggest thing was him wanting to hear an episode, because the Pearls was the first thing but it wasn’t necessarily a first step into business. Pharm So Hard was actually the first step into business because again, that’s what opened me up to understanding the problems and the things that were valuable to people that wasn’t just my RPD. I think the first step was being able to start that podcast and the first step of me actually doing that was him saying, hey, I want I want to hear this. So I think for me, my action item was to complete it versus to start it. I think, getting to that point to where letting other people hear that episode, now that took a much longer period of time. To say same episode, I recorded the same thing, but having other people hear that and I was just fortunate to have him, Sean Troy Johnson, a few people to saying hey, you know, you should go for this and you should now let other people hear it. And I think once that came about my partner, Oscar Santalo, who initially started together, we went back and forward it on PGY1 but never gained traction. In PGY2 we gained a little bit more traction, and I made the first episode. And then it’s like, hey, I’ll do the next one. So it became this kind of back and forth to where I made the first one, we listened to it, it was fine. And then the next step was for him to do it. And then I had a little bit more time to be able to get to the next step. But I think those were our first action items. And I thought that I didn’t think it would lead to what it did. But I think just getting started and having some type of MVP is really what it being just having an MVP to start with. Now everything I do, I tried to create an MVP. But I think the first episode, and that was what, Brian Gilbert on antiquated reversal, back 2019? And its 2018. And that kind of lit to what it is today. But I think just getting that first MVP and having someone to push me, because traditionally, I wouldn’t have went through all the steps because my first episode took 16 hours to edit.

Tim Ulbrich 16:08

I remember those well. And I’ll occasionally throw back on, you know, episode one, just remember the journey. And, you know, but it’s a great reminder, I’ve mentioned on this show several times the book Start by Jon Acuff and I think your journey and story is such an important one that, you know, the dots aren’t always in a straight line. And the key is, when we take that first step, you know, we might have a loose idea, often not of what might be steps two, three, four and five, but it’s really through that first step that, you know, things start to happen, where in this case, your meeting a learning objective, you know, you sat down, you did the recording, obviously, there was some nudging in that process, you know, eventually it’s okay, we’re gonna edit this, we’re gonna share this, you know, and then they start snowballing. And obviously, through there, you start to build community, get feedback, validate the idea and start to evolve this into a business. And I’m so glad you mentioned mentorship, because it’s a critical reminder, for all our listeners out there that are precepting students, residents, fellows that are educators that, you know, sometimes we see something in someone, and it’s not until we can really slow down and have some of those in depth meaningful conversations that we can really help, you know, be the gentle nudge to help them – that learner – see something that may, they may not even see themselves. And that’s really what I heard, you know, in your journey, that your RPD saw something in you that perhaps, you know, naturally as a resident, you may not always see in the moment. And I love that right, because I think that’s, that’s true for many, many stories, many journeys, where we can reflect back on a mentor, I’m thinking of several, as you’re talking that were so influential, and just action steps that I took, that led to other things, but it wouldn’t have been without their mentorship and encouragement from the start.

Jimmy Pruitt 17:52

Absolutely.

Tim Ulbrich 17:54

So Jimmy, if I’m following your journey correctly, your five plus years in as a creator with the podcast, creating content, three years or so with the Acute Care University, we’ll talk about the conference here in a little bit as well. And you’re still working full time in clinical practice. Talk to us about your decision to stay full time in practice, as you’re trying to also grow a business and what value that’s provided and challenges, I would presume as well.

Jimmy Pruitt 18:23

It’s been unique, I would say, one of the things that we looked at is making sure I’m at that number, and making sure I don’t make the mistakes that I’ve seen other people do. And more importantly, make the mistakes that I’ve read about. The biggest thing that people say is like sometimes you have to just jump and you just have to do all these different things. And I’m like, I have a family, one. So that really kind of changes the dynamic. It’s not just me making this big shift, but I want to make sure that I was able to consistently get that number. And early on I end up saying once I’m able to make you know, one and a half times my my salary consistently, and my business can continue to function smoothly, then it will be a conversation of what I do from a full time standpoint. But I’ve noticed as I continue doing both of this, me being a business owner and being very focused as being the president, CEO, whatever the title you want to give yourself when you’re when you’re starting out, it actually made me a better employee. That was very unusual because I started going to work and said, Okay, understand the objectives that I’m trying to do, and understand how, what it feels like to have someone work for you. Yeah, and be able to accomplish these goals. So when I have conversations with the board and with the administrators at my hospital, I’m asking the question, Hey, what are the KPIs that we’re trying to understand? And they’re like, What are you you’re a clinical pharmacist? I said listen, I can solve many problems. I realize the problems that you’re going to care about. And more importantly, I realize the problems that the person that report to you is going to care about. I’m going to help save people lives. I work in emergency department. That’s my fulfillment. How can I make this a, you know, a symbiotic relationship to where I get the resources that I want, but I’m also getting the things that you want me to get. So from that perspective, being a better employee has made it more enjoyable, because now I’m able to go in and solve problems and be able to find different things and have conversations that before I started being, you know, heavily involved in my company, I didn’t understand all the problems. I didn’t understand those problems. So as I looked at the component of making sure I’m meeting that output, that I need to be able to consider stepping back, I also realized there was so much more value, because now I’m able to understand other people’s problems. And it makes me say, Hey, I may want to do this for a little bit more, because I’m able to do consultant work now where I can get brought in as a consultant for and ED pharmacotherapy, find different problems, and then say, Hey, I’ve done these things now, at certain institutions, and it opens up more doors for me at this point in my career, and I just don’t think that I initially thought that. Because I think everyone who goes into business initially thinks, oh, I’m going to work for myself, it’s gonna be great. I can wake up when I want to. It takes quite a while. But I’ve enjoyed the process. And I think as I look at all these things, what having a business and working full time has allowed me to do is cut a lot of this the skin out of my life when it comes to tasks that I don’t necessarily need to do. And it’s made it easier for me to focus on family, focus on activities, I want to focus on health. So I think having both of those has kind of put me in a position to where I have to stay very focused and enjoy, pick the things that I want to enjoy, and to glean different insights from situations knowing that there will be a transition at some point, yeah. But learning more at the job and understanding the problems that they have, and other people like them have, has made me be able to understand the market, and how I can potentially use that in the future. But more importantly, my skills as a business owner, has allowed me to be able to solve problems that early in my career, and earlier, you know, in places I’ve been people don’t necessarily think about. So yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. There’s challenges, of course of not being able to take significant breaks and being able to have days where you just do nothing. But I think realistically, the continuation of doing it and seeing some benefits allow me to be able to do both, and be able to enjoy both. Because now I walk into the ER I don’t have to be a CEO today. I could just focus on this component and is vice versa. So I’ve enjoyed it. It’s helped with burnout. But I’ve really enjoyed the process.

Tim Ulbrich 22:52

A few things you said there that I love, Jimmy, that are worth highlighting, you know that the patience that I hear there, the intentionality in your thought process. You talked about a certain multiple of income one and a half times and you know, that that’d be in a place where maybe the conversation starts to shift, obviously, you and your situation – everyone’s entrepreneur journey is different, right. And I think there’s sometimes there’s this blanket, kind of advice or blanket type of idealism around entrepreneurship, which is like, jump in, and you’ll figure it out. You know, and it’s like, you know, for some people, that is their story. It’s not my story, wasn’t your story. But for some people it is. And I think for everyone’s situation, you know, it’s different. And some of the things you said really resonated with me as I had some crossover from full time work and the entrepreneurial journey. And it was several years in before making that transition. But the connection between, you know, the entrepreneurial journey and becoming a better employee, I felt that. I felt like I brought more skills to the workplace. I felt like it prevented burnout, right, some of the change in pace and environment and work and, and I think there’s something to be said, too, when you’ve got, you know, the business that’s growing, and all of a sudden your employment becomes this place of opportunity and learning and growth like, wow. I would argue Jimmy’s probably that much better of an employee and an asset. Like you’re you’re not dependent necessarily in that moment on that income, you know, as you’re building something else, and you’re able to really bring the value to the workplace, you know, that you can bring. So I think a lot a lot of wisdom there that you shared, as well as just continuing to build build the skills. Jimmy, as you have grown from content creator to solopreneur, to now building out a team. And we’ll talk again about you know, the conference here in a little bit in the logistics and all that’s involved, my mind is spinning partly because I’ve been through this journey as well. And I know that with that growth, comes fruit and comes challenges as you look into building a team and delegating and letting go. Just talk to us about that journey. I think it’s something we don’t hear enough about, as we often hear maybe more solopreneur type of stories but as you have grown and you built the team, what has been and some of the fruit what have been the challenges of that?

Jimmy Pruitt 25:02

I think when looking at growing a team and really get into that first step of, I want to bring someone else into this, especially when you’re talking full time employment. The very first employee that I hired a couple of years back was just my virtual assistant. And one of the first aspects I realized was a very big challenge of mine was, how do I explain what’s in my head that I do every day? I didn’t realize how challenging that was going to be, until I started assigning tasks and realized that that wasn’t necessarily what the output that I wanted. And I realized that it wasn’t necessarily the employee’s fault. It was really how I was able to give information and how I was how detailed I was able to be about what’s the purpose, how to get there. And then SOPs and having templates and all those things that people talk about that are not, the cool thing to think about are so valuable. And what it allows, it allowed me to do is be able to communicate more efficiently. When I first got into pharmacy, what are the key things that was very, you know, self conscious about my ability to communicate, because again, I grew up inner city kid, again, not necessarily being around many college educated people. Again, I’m one of like, six high school graduates in my family. So the way I communicated, it was, again, very different than the way I communicate on a daily basis now. It was something that was a very limiting factor for me. And I realized that I had to figure out a way to communicate better. And I really, I love to talk, I love to kind of do these different things. But as many people can probably hear, I have a Southern sudden tone, I still, you know, speak in a particular way. And I realized that in order for me to work better with other people, especially on diverse set of people, I need to translate that, translate that and technology has been phenomenal. Being able to voice to text has been the best feature I’ve ever had. So that took the initial challenge of communicating exactly what I wanted to my first employee. And it kind when I went back and edit it and went back and forth, that changed everything. Then going from there to next step was figuring out how can I not spend all of my time not doing this, in the next step was reading different books, educating myself as a, Hey, have that employee have them make the template. You know the output that you want, you know, what’s quality work for you now have them do that. And I think once I’ve transitioned from being the only person that produce the output, to try and to explain that and figuring out better ways to explain what I want to allowing the person who I’ve been working with now for over two and a half years to make the template because they do it well. That was a very long process. But I think it was one of the more unique and impactful things that I’ve learned through this process. And it went from a major challenge to being something now that I consider to be a very, you know, streamlined process. And now bringing other people on has been a lot easier because I have something and a have that he can I can show them as an output, but I can also provide them now templates, SOPs and things of that nature. So I think that’s one aspect that many people don’t speak of, or think about, but the books are out there, people don’t speak on it, and think about enough when they’re starting a business. And I everything you do, guys, if you possibly can record yourself, speak through it, dictate it and do it once. So you can always be able to reference back to it. That’s the one thing I would like to tell people and then realizing that you have to take some level of consideration depth that everyone is not going to do it the same way you do it every single time. You have to create a process that allows for them to get close, I say 75% as good as you are on a consistent basis.

Tim Ulbrich 29:02

That’s really good stuff, Jimmy. I’ve had similar experiences and I think often people run up into, you know, barriers where they start to grow, they might hire a contractor to hire employees, they run into some of the frustrations you experienced. You know, I think we’re you push through it, often people may retract and kind of fall back into this solopreneur model, which again, everyone’s build something for different reasons, different goals. But as you continue on this vision, being able to accomplish the vision you have will depend on Hey, what time, what tasks need to get done beyond that that Jimmy can do within a day which requires a team and processes and all the things that you mentioned. You’re sharing reminded me of the book, procrastinate on purpose by Rory Vaden. He talks about, you know, exactly this concept of, you know, could you do the task in 10 minutes, that’s going to take you you know, five hours, you document you could. but there’s a certain return on time investment Right, if if you do a repetitive task five times a week, that takes you 30 minutes, sure, it’s gonna take you a lot longer to train someone to get to the quality that you want. But over enough repetitions, especially those recurring tasks, if you can fight through that, you’re gonna have a lot long term benefit of the return on time. And so I love the share that you had there, I think is a great example of that. I want to ask you to zoom out on your business for a moment. And I think it’s sometimes it’s hard as the CEO, as the person who’s operationalizing, at times in the weeds, you’re in the midst of planning for a conference, I’m sure there’s tons of logistics things that are moving, it’s hard to zoom back out to that 20,000 foot view to say, Where are we going? And why are we going in this direction? And so, Jimmy, as you zoom out and look at all the things you’re doing across the content, and the podcast, the PACU, the conference, the various educational products, the offerings that you have, what’s the five to 10 year vision? Where do you see the growth going, as you look at all these things you started and now you move into this this next phase of growth?

Jimmy Pruitt 31:10

That’s a great question. And I do this every once a while and I had to force myself usually, every every quarter, I tried to do it. Sometimes better than others. The big thing that I believe that I’m trying to accomplish over again, this next five to seven years is to make this to where we have one unified goal and mission we’re trying to do: provide high quality education related to pharmacotherapy. How do I go from many different products, many different services, many different things to one umbrella company that can be operationalized by other people consistently and provide that value that we started out with, and, and being okay, not knowing each individual step to get there. So I would love to say in in five years that I’m in a position where I’m sitting on a few boards, I am the one who makes the final checkoff. But I want other pharmacists that have this, this passion, to be able to impact people through education, to be able to monetize their expertise to have a home. And I don’t necessarily feel that there’s a huge home for that now, there’s opportunities to volunteer your time, there’s opportunities to be part of other organizations, things that nature, but I believe that there’s I should say, there’s not an abundance of homes for pharmacists, and those who engage in pharmacotherapy to share, monetize their expertise. I want to provide a home for those individuals and I want I want them to be able to have a home, whether they’re gonna be the consumer, or the producer. I think that those is the things that push me forward and figure out how can I add more people to my team to add that passion? How can I make sure that we do this, and I feel good about it, because at the end of all of this, the one main thing that’s going to happen is improved patient care. So for me, when I think my business perspective on that, I feel much better knowing that the very, very end end goal and very in any user of this, the recipient of all the things we’re doing is going to be someone getting the right drug at the right dose at the right time. And doing it in the right way. Yeah, so for me, I want to provide a platform that I’m leading, or that I’ve led, that’s going to be able to influence patients by those who expertly use pharmacotherapy.

Tim Ulbrich 33:42

What I love about that we haven’t talked too much about that on this episode is I’m a firm believer in having a strong anchor in your business of a why behind everything you’re doing, because through the ups and the downs, you’re going to have to rely on that anchor. And when you talk about everything pointing towards improved patient care, wow, that connects all the dots of everything we’ve been talking about, right? Because building a team, delegation, getting comfortable with that space, and, you know, may not always be done the same way that you do it in here community! Community of the consumer. Community of the Creator. Like, wow, the urgency of that is important, right? Because that’s all aligned towards being able to have more people in this community, creating in this community, as well as getting information and benefiting from the community, all pointing towards improved patient care. Like that, I just hope everyone hears that that is thinking about an idea or has a business that when you have that type of compelling torch of a vision and a flame. It provides so much clarity. I’m not saying it’s gonna be easy. It provides so much clarity of where are you going and why are you going there and that is so critical when you’re building something and not every business can say that. To have that type of clarity of vision and that type of clarity of messaging. I love that. Absolutely love that. Let’s talk about the Empower RX Conferene coming up April 26-27th in Charlotte, I’m really excited about our collaboration surrounding this event. I’m looking forward to have the opportunity to meet your community there live in Charlotte. And I suspect that we have several listeners that have different areas of clinical expertise that maybe are in acute care and are going to be attending the event. Maybe they’re brainstorming other educational opportunities in their own niche. So tell us more about the event. How did it get started? And how is it evolved to the current state?

Jimmy Pruitt 35:27

Absolutely. EmpowerRx has been just another brainchild of wanting to improve patient care. But realizing again, we sort of go back a couple years ago and realize the history of emergency medicine. Again, we had three PGY2s in emergency medicine back in 2004. I’m starting one this, we’re over 119, I believe, in 2020. So I think as we look at the number of the growth that’s there, we realized that not every aspect of emergency medicine pharmacotherapy has been able to catch up. One of the areas that I remember mentioning, as we made Pharm So Hard was that there wasn’t a place for us to come together, hang up talk about just emergency medicine, versus just having a 10 minute Pearls or just having a 60 minute session with a few presentations. That was you know, spread out dispersed amongst the major organizations, they’ve done a phenomenal job of providing resources, and helping us grow the specialty. But I wanted to provide a place that it was very unique to emergency medicine pharmacists. And if you know anything about us, if you’ve had, if any listeners are part of, you know that you have to be a certain type of personality to consistently work in emergency department. And I wanted to provide a space for that. So I remember sending a text message to Kyle Wendt, he was he was at MUSC at the time, and saying, hey, what if we just created our own conference? And what if we just made it to where it was? It was like, it wasn’t like any other from a professional standpoint, what if you just you didn’t wear dress clothes? What if you didn’t come there at a tie, you came there and a T shirt, some jeans, and you just was having a good time. And we just spent all day talking about things that really impact emergency medicine pharmacotherapy, whether it was clinical, or whether it was the social components. There’s a lot of things that happen in emergency medicine on a day to day basis that there’s it’s not in the textbook. You don’t know how to have the interaction with the one mean nurse. You don’t know how to, you know, make sure that you’re able to think quickly when that patient comes in, that’s unannounced. We want to provide a place where we can talk about those things. But also, can we be ourselves the same way we are at the bedside. Because many ER pharmacists will tell you, when we go to the actual pharmacy area, there’s a certain persona that we we uphold when we talking to our superiors. And there’s what happens in the ER when we spend the majority of our time with nurses, physicians, EMTs things that nature. So I wanted to provide that environment, that community. And we sent this out in 2020. And we want to figure out, how can we do it as for us and by us, instead of someone else creating it and thinking they know what we want. Why don’t we just create it from the ground up? And that really was the initial phase of this. And it led to us being able to create an environment where we speak on many aspects of acute care pharmacotherapy, particularly again, the resuscitation part of it. So whether you’re a central pharmacy that responds to cardiac arrest, we have information there for you whether you’re a nurse who just happened to be interested in the drug component, we have something for you. So I think we are a emergency medicine pharmacotherapy conference. And we’re not necessarily a EM pharmacist conference in a say. So I think it kind of brings together our world in one place over two days, and the initial one was going to be virtual, because again, COVID definitely has something to do with that. And then last year, partnering with SAEM. And we got to see a sense of it. But I think that the next phase was okay, we keep saying that we’re for us, and by us, we have that everywhere. This is the first year we’re going to do everything completely in person, have some virtual access and completely be for us and by us and we grew our team tremendously to build something that again, it’s for all of us. And when I say us, that can be a physician, that can be a nurse, that can be anyone in that space, but you now have a home to discuss pharmacotherapy.

Tim Ulbrich 39:24

I’m really excited to experience it. I’ve been to many, many pharmacy conferences, but I’m sensing there’s something different, something unique about this, and I can’t wait to be a part of it. Hopefully the emergency medicine folk will allow me into the room. It’ll be a good, good, good chance to interact. And I’m really looking for it’s another great example to me, Jimmy, of something that, you know, you obviously had interest built up in a community and following at the point of when you launched that first one, but you still had to take that first step, right. And sometimes that means success. Sometimes that means failure and certainly you’re going to learn and grow from it. And I can hear the evolution that the conference has taken the last several years. So really looking forward to being a part of that. And I just as we wrap up, Jimmy want to say I admire and I mean this wholeheartedly admire, what you’ve built, why you’ve built it, how you built it. I love the niche focus. I love the clear messaging you have, there’s a strong sense of community. And there’s a strong anchor back to the vision of why that you’re doing and that that is the recipe for success in my mind as people are thinking about building a business. So, Jimmy, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show. I appreciate it.

Tim Ulbrich 40:29

As we wrap up today’s episode, let me remind our acute care healthcare listeners about our partnership with the 2024 Empower Rx conference, a leading event and emergency medicine pharmacotherapy. This year, it’s happening in Charlotte, North Carolina on April 26, and 27th. I’ll be there and hope to see you there as well. It’s ideal for pharmacists, physicians, PAs, nurses and others in the field. The Empower RX conference offers more than 10 CPE credits, insights from top experts interactive workshops, and groundbreaking research. It’s not just a conference, it’s a community focused experience fostering learning and networking in a welcoming environment. Take advantage of discounted registration available to the YFP community by using code YFP2024 for 15% off. Again, that’s code YFP2024 for 15% off you can join in person or virtually register now at EmpowerRx-conference.com and elevate your emergency medicine skills. Again, that’s EmpowerRx-conference.com.

Jimmy Pruitt 40:29

Thanks for having me on, Tim.

Tim Ulbrich 41:32

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/ disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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