May 2024 – Your Financial Pharmacist

YFP 361: 4 Timely Questions for Homebuyers

Posted on by YFP Media

Tony Umholtz, Senior Vice President of Mortgage Banking at First Horizon, returns to discuss four questions prospective home buyers should consider. This episode is brought to you by First Horizon.

Episode Summary

Tony Umholtz, Senior Vice President of Mortgage Banking at First Horizon returns to discuss four questions that prospective home buyers must answer including buy now versus wait, rules of thumb lenders are using to determine lending limits, the potential impact of the recent settlement from the National Association of Realtors, and the current state of how student loan payments are being factored into the lending calculations.

About Today’s Guest

Tony Umholtz is the Senior VP of Mortgage Banking at First Horizon. He graduated Cum Laude from the University of South Florida with a B.S. in Finance from the Muma College of Business. He then went on to complete his MBA. While at USF, Tony was part of the inaugural football team in 1997. He earned both Academic and AP All-American Honors during his collegiate career. After college, Tony had the opportunity to sign contracts with several NFL teams including the Tennessee Titans, New York Giants, and the New England Patriots. Being active in the community is also important to Tony. He has served or serves as a board member for several charitable and non-profit organizations including board member for the Salvation Army, FCA Tampa Bay, and the USF National Alumni Association. Having orchestrated over $1.1 billion in lending volume during his career, Tony has consistently been ranked as one of the top mortgage loan officers in the industry by the Scotsman’s Guide, Mortgage Executive magazine, and Mortgage Originator magazine.

Key Points from the Episode

Housing market trends and timely questions for homebuyers with expert insights. [0:00]
Housing market trends, including shifts towards a buyer’s market with more inventory and lower interest rates. [4:10]
Home purchase decision-making, lending rules, and interest rates. [9:56]
Real estate industry changes and their impact on homebuyers. [14:18]
Real estate industry disruption, student loan debt, and lender perspectives. [20:46]
Student loan repayment options and their impact on debt-to-income ratio, with a focus on income-driven repayment [25:04]
Mortgage options for pharmacists with 3-5% down payment. [30:21]

Episode Highlights

“We’re seeing we’re seeing more inventory, more availability for buyers, that wasn’t there in the past. And I think that’s part of normalization. We’re still not completely normal. But we are getting closer.” – Tony Umholtz [4:07]

“I’ve always believed in 22 years in this industry, if someone’s going to be in an area for five years or more, when you look at the alternative of renting versus owning, I think it makes sense to own no matter what the environment. Rents go up over time. You don’t build equity. But with buying, you’re going to come out ahead in five years even if values are zero appreciation, right? You’re going to benefit by owning that home even if there’s no appreciation.” Tony Umholtz [6:55]

“Looking at the housing market, and maybe outside of COVID, it’s always kind of been better to buy a home when the markets are down. When everyone’s buying, then you’re competing with everyone and you just don’t get as good of a deal. I looked at that in my own life – when I buy, it seems like when things were slower in the market; I always did better versus when everyone’s looking.” – Tony Umholtz [11:20]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I welcome Tony Umholtz back on to the show as Senior Vice President of Mortgage Banking at First Horizon. On today’s show, we discuss four timely questions that prospective homebuyers must answer, including whether to buy now versus wait, rules of thumb that lenders are using to determine the lending limits, the potential impact of the recent settlement from the National Association of Realtors, and the current state of how student loan payments are being factored into the lending calculations. If you’re in the market to buy a home in 2024, we’ve got a good one for you this week. All right, let’s hear from today’s sponsor First Horizon, and then we’ll jump into the show.

Tim Ulbrich 00:48

Does saving 20% for a down payment on a home feel like an uphill battle? It’s no secret that pharmacists have a lot of competing financial priorities, including high student loan debt, meaning that saving 20% for a down payment on a home may take years. For several years now we’ve been partnering with First Horizon who offers a professional home loan option AKA a doctor or pharmacist loan that requires a 3% downpayment for single family home or townhome for first time homebuyers, has no PMI and offers a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on home loans up to $766,550 in most areas. The pharmacist home loan is available in all states except Alaska and Hawaii, and can be used to purchase condos as well, however, rates may be higher and a condo review has to be completed. While I’ve personally worked with First Horizon before and had a great experience with Tony and his team, don’t just take it from me. Here’s what Payton from Tyler, Texas had to say about his experience with First Horizon: “Aaron, Cindy and Marilyn were very easy to work with. As a first- time homebuyer, I shopped around for lenders at the onset of the process. Aaron was always very quick to reply and provide me with any details I requested in order to move forward in my decision to select a lender. Once I selected First Horizon, Marilyn and Cindy did a great job of keeping my wife and I informed of the process. Closing was a breeze yesterday at the title office and I sincerely appreciate the team going above and beyond to keep my interest rate locked, despite extending closing due to negotiations with the seller. I’ve already shared my positive experience with many pharmacist-only groups. And I look forward to my brother, also a pharmacist, refinancing with you guys when he decides to do so. To check out the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacists home loan and to start the pre- approval process, visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

Tim Ulbrich 00:48

Tony, welcome back to the show.

Tony Umholtz 02:43

Hey, Tim, good to see you. Thanks for having me.

Tim Ulbrich 02:46

Always appreciate having your perspective and expertise to bring to our listeners that are potentially in the in the market for buying a house and we had you last on the podcast earlier in the spring episode 348. We discussed 2024 housing market trends. Today we’re going to continue that discussion knowing that this market is fluid, shifting, moving rapidly. And specifically we’re gonna talk about four timely questions that we think homebuyers must answer. But before we get into that, Tony, what’s the latest that you’re seeing in terms of trends out there in the market at the time of recording this end of May 2024? I know you mentioned to me before we hit record some interesting trends on inventory, maybe some levels building in certain markets, what would love to hear your perspective?

Tony Umholtz 03:30

Sure, sure. So times have changed a bit. If we look back from two years ago till now, you know, this these interest rates, the Fed has been on this mission to to quiet inflation, right? We gotta gotta get inflation down. It’s been a very tough environment for when it comes to inflation the last couple of years. And the good news is, is starting, we’re starting to see some things happen. And one thing that’s been building in different parts of the country now every part of the country can vary. But in Tampa Bay, for example, in Florida, we’ve seen a lot of inventory growth a lot of other parts of the country have too – Austin, Texas, I know is building inventory. So we’re seeing we’re seeing more inventory, more availability for buyers, that wasn’t there in the past. And I think, you know, that’s part of a normalization. We’re still not completely normal. But we are getting closer. So we’re getting closer.

Tim Ulbrich 04:25

Yeah, I feel it feels like there’s some slight shifts happening to be more buyer friendly. You know, we were just talking before the episode, you shared a story from your team of some negotiations happening where, you know, there were some concessions and things from a seller that maybe we wouldn’t have saw, you know, six months ago or 12 months ago and again, to your point every market is different. We need more inventory here in Columbus, Ohio for sure, there’s a lot of demand so everyone’s market is different, but it does feel like we’re starting to see some shifts where you know the the markets becoming a little bit more friendly to the buyer. I know for those that are searching, it probably does not feel like that right now. But, you know, be patient and we’re obviously anxiously waiting to see what happens with interest rates as well.

Tony Umholtz 05:08

Yes, I’m definitely seeing a shift, it’s becoming much more of a buyers market. Repairs are being, you know, concessions are being made or, you know, like we had talked about the sellers are willing to do some of this work to the home where they weren’t before when, when these inspections come back, and there’s little things, they’re willing to make those those those repairs now where they weren’t in the past. So some definitely some positive trends for buyers.

Tim Ulbrich 05:34

So again, we’re gonna talk through four timely questions that homebuyers must answer. Again, we’re recording here at the end of May 2024. So Tony, question number one, I think one that many people are waiting and thinking about is, you know, should I buy now? Should I wait until interest rates drop? We discussed that in a previous episode. I think this provides an interesting question because supply and demand, when rates come down, in theory, when I’m more people that are into the market searching for home, we did see rates tick down a little bit here in the last week. So what what are your thoughts on some of the trends that are happening around interest rates? And this decision of hey, buy now versus wait?

Tony Umholtz 06:11

Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into that, Tim, is a great, great question. I think, you know, the first thing we would want to talk about is, everyone’s situation is different, right? I’ve always believed in 22 years in this industry, like if someone’s going to be in an area for five years or more, when you look at the alternative, renting, right, versus owning, I think it makes sense to own if you’re in a five year span, no matter what the environment, right? I think it because it just rents go up over time, right? You don’t build equity, even if value stayed the same, you’re going to come out ahead and five years if values are zero, right? Zero appreciation, right? So you’re going to benefit by by owning that home, even if there’s no appreciation. So I think that’d be the first thing I’d say, like it’s up to the individual. But if you’re renting and that’s the alternative, and you’re gonna see escalating rents, because rents are still going up every year, I think, I think owning is the way to go. As far as like timing the market, which is always hard to do, there’s pros and cons right now. I think inventory is building is becoming more favorable, like we discussed, interest rates have come down slightly, you know, with interest rates, I’ll give you give you guys my thoughts on this. And again, I you know, this is just all these multiple sources that I monitor. And, and, you know, there’s some, there’s a couple of different thoughts here. So number one, we’re starting to see different consumers, different spectrums really being affected. Those in the lower income earners, it’s really starting to, you’re seeing credit card debt multiply, interest rates on credit card debt has gone up, there’s a segment of the population that’s really struggling, really struggling financially. We’re starting to see more defaults on car payments, not as much on mortgages, but on car payments, we are in some other different retail items. So that tells you that that could drag on the economy. So that’s one end of the spectrum. The other the other end of the spectrum is, we have a lot of people like baby boomers, for example, no debt, right. So they’re not dealing with any credit cards, their incomes slightly rising. We have financial markets have gone up. Stock bond market has risen. We’ve got high yields on CDs and treasury bonds. So they’re able to spend and they’re spending a lot, right. So we’ve got one segment of population doing really well and another not. So it’s just how long is that going to drag on the economy, and we’re seeing businesses start pulling back a little bit. So that being said, that’s all things that line up with interest rates falling, it really does, because we are seeing this gradual slowdown. Rates came down the past two weeks, because we got some got a really pretty bad number on retail sales. And those things kind of are showing the slowdown. That being said, commodity prices are going up. And what does that tell us, Tim? That tells us that that’s an inflationary sign, right? So it’s a mixed bag right now, it’s hard to say rates are gonna go straight down. It’s really tough. So I wouldn’t say we can’t completely bank on lower rates. We definitely are slowing and there’s probably an outlook that rates could be lower in the future. But we don’t always know for sure, right? There is some signal saying higher rates could be, this could be the new normal for a while. So when we’re making a home buying decision, we wouldn’t want to just say hey, rates are going to be lower in a year. That’s my buying. It’s got to say does this fit my lifestyle now? Is my alternative renting, you know, if I’m living rent free with family, and it’s not a problem to be in the you know, living with family, might be okay, but if you’re renting, and you know, you’re going to be in that area for more than five years, that’s where I think buying makes sense no matter what the market is.

Tim Ulbrich 09:55

Yeah, I’m glad you said that, Tony, because I feel like when there’s so much news coming at us as there has been with market conditions rates, will they drop? When will they drop inflation, etc, we tend to run the risk of getting down these rabbit holes that drive our decision making. And they’re important information we’ve got to consider. But we got to step back and look at the bigger picture. Where does the home purchase fit within the context of the rest of the financial plan? And if we think about this as a decision tree, from there, yes or no? Okay, how are the market conditions impacting our ability to buy a home? And what does that do in terms of purchase price, financing options, all those things, and sometimes we work bottom up, when we really need to start with those bigger questions.

Tony Umholtz 10:37

I have one more thing I’ll add just it just kind of piggyback’s on Warren Buffett, right. And, you know, you want to go against the grain on investments and in life. And a lot of ways, you know, he I think is his quote was, “I buy when there’s blood in the streets,” is when he buys stocks, right? When things were really bad. And, you know, when there’s euphoria he sells. So you kind of look at the housing market, and I’ve looked at that over the years, and maybe outside of COVID, just just what happened in COVID. It’s always kind of been when the markets down, it’s kind of a down year, I think it’s always been a better time to buy historically, in real estate too you know, when everyone’s buying, then you’re competing with everyone is just don’t get as good of a deal. So I just kind of looked at that in my own life, when I buy it seems like when things were slower in the market, I always did better, you know, versus when everyone’s looking.

Tim Ulbrich 11:32

Yeah, and I have a feeling time will tell, but I have a feeling. you know, maybe this time next year, maybe sooner, maybe a little bit later, we’re you and I are gonna be talking about, you know, an important topic around refinancing that we haven’t talked about in a long time on the show, because it just hasn’t made a whole lot of sense. So you know, what more to come in in the future. But if obviously, if we see rates drop, there’s going to be a big interest in the market out there from from a refinance perspective. Great stuff. Okay. So that was the first question, is it worth waiting to buy until interest rates drop? So by now versus wait? Second question is around some of the rules of thumb that lenders are using from a pre approval process and determining the amount of home that one can afford, one can purchase and Tony just given the rise in home prices, given the rise in interest rates, obviously driving up monthly payments, you know, pharmacist incomes have gone up, but they haven’t gone up that much. And so I have a feeling that, you know, we’re seeing the impact of home prices, and interest rates have an impact on their debt to income ratios, which are important from a lending perspective. So what are the rules of thumb? Is the 28-36 rule still relevant? What are lenders using now?

Tony Umholtz 12:41

You know, it’s it is irrelevant to some degree. But actually, the back end ratio, the 36%, is actually 43%. So, it depends on the product too. So like the product, you know, with less than 20% down, you’re typically going to have to stay at that 43% threshold. So that means your total debts, new mortgage included, car payments, student loans, the total debts cannot be more than 43% of your gross income. So it’s important remember, it’s gross income, it’s not net income, okay. So if you’re earnings of $10,000 a month, gross, your total obligations per month can be $4300. Okay, simple, simple math there. Now, if you’re going to bring more money to the table, like 20%, down, you can often get approved higher, so up to 49%, maybe even 50% in some cases. FHA loans, we can get even higher, sometimes it’s interesting. So, but those are different LTVs, typically more larger down payments are gonna give you more flexibility on the on the debt to income ratio. And that’s what again, that’s what we are approving you for as a lender and it with the lending community can approve you for that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right thing for me.

Tim Ulbrich 13:56

Yeah, great, great point. And so we’ve seen that kind of bump up in over time. And again, to your point, every product is different. So so no general rule of thumb. But the example there’s a good one, right? Remember, it’s gross income. So if someone’s earning $10,000 per year, you mentioned that that 36, shifting to 43. So that would be all debts $4300, right or less of the 10,000. Now, just to add on to that a little bit in this market, Tony and I’m specifically thinking of existing homeowners that are looking to move or make a purchase that are trying to get themselves in a position where maybe they don’t have to make a contingent offer, right? So hey, can I get a second loan, you know, even if they’re not going to carry that loan for a long period of time, but wanting to be able to make an offer on a home without a contingency on the sale of their current home. Just talk to us about how that impacts in that point, you then would have two mortgages, right that are going into that 43% equation.

Tony Umholtz 14:48

That’s right. So any liabilities you add, so like for example, what’s popular is a home equity line of credit. If you still own your home and you’re trying to buy a new home without selling your current home. Well, that home equity line of credit has to be counted in your debt to income ratio going forward. And it’s a popular strategy. It’s almost like a bridge loan. We have some clients that are trying to do a few repairs to their home, but want to buy this other house. And they they need to bridge that equity over for the down payment. Now, that new home equity line, for example, would count in their debt to income ratio or cash out refinance. We do cash out refinances as well, where because those rates are lower than home equity lines generally. And let’s say we pull $100,000 out that new mortgage payment would be calculated, and your debt to income ratio, so any new loans you take are calculated, and your debt to income ratio.

Tim Ulbrich 15:39

Awesome. Great stuff there. So third question, I want to talk a little bit about maybe somewhat nebulous, NAR settlement and what’s going on there, and probably more questions, and maybe we have answers at this point in time. And we had Nate Hedrick on the show early in April. Nate’s a pharmacist, real estate agent, Episode 353, we’ll link to that in the show notes, to talk about his perspective as an agent on the NAR settlement. So we don’t necessarily need to go into all of the details on the settlement, as we’ve discussed that before. But Tony would love to get your perspective as a mortgage officer, what what exactly is going on here with the settlement? And how may this impact or not impact those that are currently or soon to be in the market as a homebuyer?

Tony Umholtz 16:22

It’s, you know, it’s a moving target to some degree. It’s, you know, from, from our perspective, as lenders, I know, any other thing I just like to address -we don’t know all the details yet. And I think we have to look at the different regional MLS’s too. I think there could be some regional impacts and ways of doing business that could could change, it may not be a universal thing is what I’m saying. Different areas may adopt different rules. But just in my communications with with real estate agents that we’ve worked with. And, you know, clearly the big thing is going to be, I think it’s going to narrow the amount of realtors that are out there. I think to some degree, I think the more established agents will be still be in the markets and still do well and probably will do better. For a lot of the newer agents that may not have as big of a following or book business may not make it, right. My concern too, is there are going to be some areas where the buyers may not be able to afford to pay the buyer’s agents. So I think I think what it’s going to do is it’s going to professionalize a lot of things. I think, buyers. First of all, I want to say this, I’ve worked with real estate agents for over 20 years. And they some of them work extremely hard. It’s a very tough occupation, when you talk about driving people to maybe 20 houses, negotiations. I mean, even this weekend, I had an agent call us and they were making an offer on a really competitive house, this one was priced really well to sell. And like, you know, they’re still going up against multiple offers, they’ve been working with these buyers for months. I mean, it’s it’s a challenging occupation. And this doesn’t make it any easier to some degree. But I think having a buyer’s agreement with that agent, so when you select an agent that can help you, because there’s a lot of value add that agents bring, you know, just in my view, we all have the internet, we all can search for properties. But when we’re new to an area, we don’t know everything about the neighborhoods, we don’t know the history of the neighborhoods, the history of that area. Was it built on an old Waste Management facility? I mean, there’s so much that goes into this, what kind of schools are here? What’s the history of these schools? What’s, what’s the history of this part of town? Is this area going to appreciate? Is it a growing part of town? Or is it a time, there’s so many aspects that agents do bring value? So I think, getting off on a tangent, but I guess what I’m getting at here is you want people to be served have the ability to be served by agents, right. And you don’t want to eliminate that. So they’re all going to have to sign some sort of buyer’s agreement. And there will be a commission involved. And that commission will either be paid by the buyer themselves directly or could still be negotiated with the seller. And I do think especially as we pivot into this buyer’s market, that more sellers are going to be willing to pay that. And it may not be advertised that way. But I think they’re going to be able to negotiate that in so the sellers, essentially still paying it. Yeah, but if the buyer does pay it out of their pocket, they’re probably still getting a little lower sales price. So in the end, I think the consumer is going to do fine, but it’s really not going to change a whole lot. I think it’s going to change how the business is done. And it may eliminate some of the agents in the industry is what I think could happen. The good news of all this is that Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, right and HUD, basically came out said that if the seller does pay the buyer’s agent commission, it’s not going to impact the allowance for seller concessions. That means is on a on a conventional loan, if you’re putting 5% down and you can normally get 3% in sales concessions, right? That let’s say the buyer agents owed 3% in commission, the seller can still pay that and still pay your 3% concessions, closing costs and prepaids, which was is helpful, I think is a big deal. Because then we’re not having that challenge as well, buyers, because many people take advantage of that, to have their closing costs and prepaids paid. So that’s, that’s kind of where we are, I think we’ll know more by the end of the summer, and we can definitely dive in more. And that’s just kind of my high level, you know, perspective. I’m not an expert in this. But just, you know, that’s kind of what I think could happen. And I’m hopeful that this is a good thing for the industry. And it’s not not a negative thing.

Tim Ulbrich 20:45

Yeah, great summary. And I’m just really curious more than anything to see how this shakes out. You know, if you look at listings right now, it’s business as usual. You know, most listings that I see are in the Columbus area, you know, a list of 3%, two and a half percent, something like that. So that ability to list is something I think we’re going to see that change, and there certainly will be questions and some unknown territory, but how quickly will this evolve? How quickly will the disruption happen? Or not happen? You and I were talking a little bit before the recording about, you know, some of this shifting more on the front end. And having that agreement agreement with the buyer’s agent, especially for the first time homebuyers where that downpayment and coming with cash to the table for down payment closing costs, is so precious, right, that’s hard, hard to do. If there’s more cash that’s needed, from the buyer to pay the agent in a market or historically where that wasn’t happening, you know, I think that’s going to be an interesting trend to watch watch into the future. But what a lot of questions, you know, I think the example you gave is, was a really good one, have you know, an agent, understanding a local area, understanding the school’s understanding, maybe some of the things that aren’t going to be put on a listing, you know, such as, hey, this was built on an old facility and just going through this process a couple of times, especially if you’re coming from out of the area until you are in the area, living in it every day, where you are actually driving around experiencing it, living life like you normally would, you just can’t know that. You have to rely on, you know, other people that have expertise in the area. But I think it’s also worth saying there that not all agents are created equal from a value standpoint, you know. It’s no different than our industry, in the financial services, where the word financial planner doesn’t necessarily carry a whole lot of weight. As a consumer, you have to really do your homework to say, Hey, what are the credentials this person has? What is the experience? What is the value that they’re charging? Is there a return on investment? And I think, you know, one of the positives of this is really shifting, you know, that pressure, maybe some consolidation in the agent market, to really, you know, for agents to make that case, from a value standpoint. So curious to see what that looks like. Yeah,

Tony Umholtz 22:49

100% agree. It’s, it should professionalize a lot of the industry in a lot of ways.

Tim Ulbrich 22:57

My last question for you, Tony, I know a lot of our listeners are curious about this is related to student loans. You know, it’s it feels like we have to come back and talk about student loans at some point on every episode. Many of our listeners, of course, are facing, you know, significant amounts of student loan debt, especially, especially in that first decade or so of their career. And there’s just changes upon changes related to student loans that have been coming over the last year. And what one of them that’s coming to top of mind for me is with the with the new save repayment plan, that new calculation is going into effect this summer, which is going to have some benefits for most, not all because what’s interesting about that repayment plan is the monthly payment can exceed the standard repayment plan, which isn’t true with all of the other income driven repayment plans. But for most borrowers, I think because of the adjustments to that calculation, where the federal poverty limit multipliers going to be going up, and then the multiplier for graduate undergraduate loans might drive down the monthly payment a little bit as well. In theory, we’re gonna see many people that might have a lower monthly payment on that save plan. And so my question is, we just talked about debt to income ratio, how does that feed into what you’re seeing in terms of how lenders are looking at student loans and just the nuances and how quickly this is changing? And how that feeds into the calculation of what that amount of student loans impacts their overall debt load?

Tony Umholtz 24:27

Yeah, that’s a great question. And it’s, you know, as far as how lenders are viewing the student loans, there’s two two things that I would say are the main factors that we look at, right. So the so when, when a pharmacist or physician is getting out of school, they secure the first job and they have quite a bit of student loans. We see cases you know, across the board but hundreds to hundreds of 1000s of dollars sometimes the the there’s two ways and the main the the way, the best way and what we see the most is we just use the Income Based Repayment repayment number, right? So, a lot of times when we’ll run a credit report for someone that’s newly out of school, it’ll state that they owe all this balance, and there’s a zero payment, right? So because they haven’t started making payments, so when we run a credit bureau through Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian, it’ll come back that way, right, to saying zero is the payment amount. So that’s where these two different avenues go. So number one, if you get the Income Based Payment letter, so let’s say it’s $250,000, is still student loans. And that comes back at $800 a month income based repayment, or $500 a month, that’s what we’re going to use. So it’d be $500 a month on that letter, even though it’s not on the credit bureau. Now, if it’s in deferment, or you’re not repaying it right, then we’re going to use a factor. So in case the product we use for pharmacists is going to be a point 5% factor, okay. So in that case, you’d be looking at a $1250 payment versus $500. So $1250, because it’s half a percent per month, of the total $250. So your your ability, your buying capacity has narrowed if you don’t have that income based repayment. So because that factor is going to is going to provide a larger payment than then the income base. Now, that being said, that factors lower than like an FHA loan, or you know, some other products that are out there, we’re gonna use 1%. Right? Yeah. So so it’s still better than, you know, the other options, but it’s not as good as the income based. So my advice is, once you start working, and you’re on that payment plan, that’s what the lender is going to use, and make sure that they have that information that way they calculate it correctly, because the lenders may turn you down saying, Hey, you owe 250, saying zero, our factor’s 1%, it’s $2500 a month, you can’t qualify for anything. Yeah. So that’s the advice I’d give. I’ve seen that happen quite a bit over the years. So I just, you know, do your homework on what that that income base payment will be. And if it’s better than that factor, which a lot of times it is, that’s what I would, you know, use that to factor into your planning ahead of time.

Tim Ulbrich 27:18

Yeah, Tony, this is a great example, one of many where two parts of the financial plan come together, you know, we’re talking about student loan repayment. And obviously, there’s a whole set of strategy with that. And from a lending perspective, you’re buying a home, what that monthly payment is, and how that feeds into your debt to income ratio very relevant. And one of the common things we talked about is, you know, deferment. In my opinion deferment, there’s still some old advice out there from people that graduated back when I did have like, hey, defer your loans if you can defer your loans, especially during like a postgraduate training period. And the problem with that you’ve highlighted one here, is that for those individuals, that’s going to put us into that, you know, more of that de facto calculation, that most likely is going to be a higher number that contribute to the debt load. The other thing we often talk about is, especially for those that might qualify for something like public service loan forgiveness, deferment, doesn’t allow those to count as qualifying payments. And because the income driven repayment, as the name suggests, is using your income to come up with your monthly payment, even when you’re in a postgraduate training period with a thought might be, hey, I’ve got a lower income, therefore, I need to defer, that calculation might end up, you know, even if you have 150 $250,000, that you might actually have a very low monthly income driven repayment plan, which would be favorable here, but also be favorable, when it comes to something like loan forgiveness payments and those payments counting. So not advice, by any means. But certainly something to think about. And a good example, just have a how these pieces are very much interconnected.

Tony Umholtz 28:48

Absolutely.

Tim Ulbrich 28:49

Tony, if I could put you if I could put a fifth question in front of you, that actually was just thinking about as we’re recording, you know, knowing we’re in this higher interest rate market, I would suspect this is a time period where we’re seeing more ARM products out there that are being promoted. So ARMs, adjustable rate mortgage products, what what are your thoughts and kind of, you know, people looking at those where hey, maybe an ARM product as you’ve been promoted, you know, something, and if something like a 10 or 15 year ARM, even if it’s ammoritized over 30 years with the idea that hey, we’re gonna save a little bit of interest now, but there’s this question in the future. So, you know, when I refinance my home last in 2000, and somewhere around the pandemic, you know, 30 year conventional at high twos, low threes to no brainer, right? Obviously, we’re in a different interest rate market. So just quick thoughts on on kind of ARM products in this market.

Tony Umholtz 29:43

You know, it’s funny, the ARM products, especially right when the Fed took off with their interest rate, rising raises and ARMs had a pretty meaningful spread below the fixed rates. So the only area I see and I’ll give you the pros and cons of ARMs, the only area where I’m writing a good amount of arms are on jumbo mortgages right now, just because those jumbo fixed rates are still higher, more elevated than the ARMs, and it but it’s, it’s compressed a lot. So it used to be like a 1% spread maybe in early, mid 22 and an end of 22-23. It just kept doing this, you know why? Because the Fed kept increasing the short end of the yield curve, right. So that’s where we had this. That’s why we have an inverted yield curve. So what you don’t want to get into too much technicality, but like the two year treasury note today is actually higher than the 10 year and a 30. Year, right. So it’s inverted, short term rates are, are higher than the long term rates, which typically leads means rates are going to come down in the future, right? is typically what that means. But ARMs still makes sense on the higher end loans it possibly could on conventional loans, the only challenges with ARMs, they typically are considered riskier in the eyes of the lender, meaning we want more money down, right. We’re not going to do a three or 5%. The only product we have one product that’ll do 100% ARM for MDs only, MDs and DOs. But outside of that none of the products really make sense unless you put 20% down, so no one has 20% to put down the ARM could make sense. It used to make even more sense. But the yield curve has gotten pumped up so much. And frankly, the fixed rates have come down. The 30 year fixed is getting better on especially on conventional loans. FHA loans are incredibly – the spread on FHA loans are way down. I mean, I think the other day, I mean, I hadn’t seen them down in, you know, pretty far down in the sixes for FHA now, so there is PMI. But anyway, I guess what I’m getting at is, I think there’s better fixed rate options for most people right now, unless they’re higher end loans if that makes sense, but it’s a great question. The ARMs are definitely still viable for larger jumbo loans. And in most markets, that’s over $766.

Tim Ulbrich 32:09

So you answered my question, I say, hey, what do you define as a jumbo loan for folks that are listening, wondering, so awesome, thank you. Let’s wrap up by talking about the product that you offer at First Horizon for the pharmacist home loan. You know, I think many of our listeners we’ve talked about, hey, some of the challenges potentially of getting into that downpayment, obviously that downpayment amount of getting a conventional 20%, where home prices are today versus five years ago, that’s put further pressure on that, you know, cash for the downpayment. So talk to us about the pharmacist, pharmacist home loan through First Horizon, who it’s for maximum loan amounts, downpayment requirements, and that will point our listeners to more information from there.

Tony Umholtz 32:47

Sure, sure. So the again, the product has been it been a great option for many, and we’ve been really neat to see so many people benefit from it. And it allows if you’re a first time buyer, you can put as little as 3% down. And if you’ve purchased in the past, then or owned a home in the past, it would be 5% down, okay. No PMI. So there’s no mortgage insurance, that’s the real benefit. There’s no prepayment penalty either. So you can refinance in the next couple of years if we see rates dip, like we think could happen. There’s also a minimum credit score, it’s 700 to the minimum credit score hurdle is 700. And the maximum loan amount is $766,500. Is the maximum loan amount. So that’s a quick snapshot of it. And there’s not a hefty amount of reserve requirements. It’s a pretty user friendly loan for most, especially if you’re buying your first home. And we generally have, you know, 30 year fixed options under that product.

Tim Ulbrich 33:53

So for those that are listening, that are in a higher cost of living area, saying, Hey, I’d love to buy under $766. But I live on the West Coast, I live in the northeast, I live in, you know, the DC/Virginia area, you know, this doesn’t mean there’s not an opportunity to work with First Horizon, Tony mentioned the jumbo loans or other options available when you get to those higher loan amounts. And I think Tony’s we’ve talked about on previous shows a good lender is not going to put one solution towards everyone to take. For your individual solution, what is the best option? Is it the pharmacy some loan? Is it a FHA loan, you know, perhaps a VA loan or other products? So that lender relationship and really determining what the best fit is so important, and we’ve got more information available on the website. If you go to yourfinancialpharmacists.com/home-loan, you can learn more about the first horizon pharmacists home loan product, and from there, we can get you in contact with Tony and the team to learn more. So Tony, as always great stuff. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Tony Umholtz 34:50

Hey, thanks for having me. Tim. Always great to be with you here.

Tim Ulbrich 34:52

Thank you. Have a good one.

Tony Umholtz 34:53

You too.

Tim Ulbrich 34:56

Before we wrap up today’s show, I want to again thank this week’s sponsor of Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast First Horizon,. We’re glad to have found a solution for pharmacists that are unable to save 20% for a down payment on a home. A lot of pharmacists and the YFP community have taken advantage of First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan, which requires a 3% downpayment for a single family home or townhome for first time homebuyers, and has no PMI on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. To learn more about the requirements for First Horizon’s Pharmacist Home LLoan and to get started with the pre approval process, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacists.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacists.com/home-loan.

Tim Ulbrich 35:41

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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YFP 360: Starting a Nonprofit: An Interview w/ Brentsen Wolf, PharmD Founder of RxTeach

Posted on by YFP Media

Brentsen Wolf, PharmD, Founder and President of the nonprofit RxTeach, shares his journey of starting and leading a nonprofit organization.

Episode Summary

On this episode, Tim Ulbrich connects with industry pharmacist Brentsen Wolf, PharmD about his journey starting RxTeach, a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing scholarships in the areas of advancing preventative medicine education and cancer research. Brentsen discusses the motivations behind starting RxTeach, how he was able to go from idea to getting it off the ground and shares the lessons he learned along the way. He also discusses his thoughts on the future of the organization and the efforts RxTeach is supporting.

About Today’s Guest

Brentsen Wolf graduated with his PharmD from the Southern Illinois University of Edwardsville in 2021. He then completed a 2-year post-doctoral medical affairs fellowship through the Rutgers Pharmaceutical Industry Fellowship Program at Merck. Brentsen currently works as an MSL in thoracic malignancies in the pharmaceutical industry.

Brentsen is the President and Founder of RxTeach, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization dedicated to providing scholarships in the areas of advancing preventative medicine education and cancer research. Brentsen has a passion for health and fitness, professional development, and research. You can connect with him via LinkedIn and read all of his articles here.

Key Points from the Episode

Pharmacist’s career journey and nonprofit work. [0:00]
Nonprofit organization RX Teach, providing educational content for pharmacists and students. [4:32]
Preventative medicine and cancer treatment. [9:07]
Nonprofit efforts to create educational content and raise funds for scholarships. [13:23]
Brentsen Wolf avoids burnout by making nonprofit effort [14:45]
Nonprofit formation and legal requirements. [19:48]
Nonprofit organization’s mission to provide scholarships for pharmacy students and prevent cancer through education. [24:33]

Episode Highlights

“Starting the non-profit was based on passion. And I think if you can articulate well for yourself, what is actually going to drive you and prevent you from burning out. That’s how you make this decision.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [14:48]

“If you’re thinking about doing something, whether it’s a nonprofit, for profit, blog, side project, whatever it is, there’s never going to be a perfect time.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [20:51]

“I hear all the time, like, oh, once I get X number of dollars in the bank, or once I get to this place in my career, that’s when I’ll do this. And I can tell you, you know, ever since having my first child, you just, there’s no perfect time. It’s always going to be hard in some fashion, there’s always going to be some kinds of challenges, and you’re going to meet those along the way and overcome them and feel good about that.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [20:59]

“So stop waiting is my first piece of advice, just take the first step. And if it goes slowly, if it takes a long time, or it’s really difficult upfront, that’s fine, it was never going to be super easy.” – Brentsen Wolf, PharmD [21:19]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I had the pleasure of sitting down with industry pharmacist Brentsen Wolf about his journey, starting the nonprofit, Rx Teach. We discussed the motivations behind starting Rx Teach how he was able to go from idea to getting off the ground, the lessons he learned along the way, the future of the organization and the efforts that Rx Teach is supporting. Now, before we jump into my interview with Brentsen, I have a hard truth for you to hear: making a six figure income is not a financial plan. Yes, you’ve worked hard to get where you are today. Yes, you’re earning a good income. But have you ever wondered, am I on track to retire? How do I prioritize and fund all the competing financial goals that I have? How do I plan financially for big upcoming life events and changes like moving having a child, changing jobs, getting married or retiring? And why perhaps am I not as far along financially at this point in my career, as I thought I would be? One of the answers may be that your six figure income is not a financial plan. As a pharmacist, yes, you have an incredible tool in your toolbox – your salary. But without a vision and a plan that good income will only go so far. That’s in part why we started Your Financial Pharmacist back in 2015. At YFP, we support pharmacists at every stage of their careers to take control their finances reach their financial goals and build wealth through comprehensive, fee-only financial planning and tax planning. Our team of certified financial planners and tax professionals work with pharmacists all across the United States, and helps our clients set their future selves up for success while living a rich life today. If you’re ready to see how Your Financial Pharmacist can support you on your financial journey, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/learn to learn more about our services. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/learn. Alright, let’s jump into my interview with Brentsen Wolf, founder of Rx Teach.

Tim Ulbrich 02:06

Brentsen, welcome to the show.

Brentsen Wolf 02:08

Thank you, Tim. Thank you.

Tim Ulbrich 02:09

Well it’s been a treat for me, you and I connected a couple years back when you were doing your industry fellowship with Merck through the Rutgers program. And we collaborated on some personal finance sessions with the fellows which we’ve done now for a few years, which has been a lot a lot of fun and it’s been a joy. And before we get into the work that you’ve been doing with the nonprofit Rx Teach, and we’re excited to share more of that story and the journey that led to that work and the impact that you’re having. Tell us more about your career story in pharmacy, what led you into the profession? What led to the interest in industry and the work that you’re doing now?

Brentsen Wolf 02:43

Yeah, it’s a good question. Especially because coming from the Midwest, and I know we’re both Midwest guys, the kind of interesting opportunities for PharmDs outside of retail and hospital aren’t thrown at you in school the way they are in some of the coastal areas. So yeah, my, my journey to where I’m at now is, you know, convoluted and stressful in some ways, but also just, you know, I think I ended up where I needed to be. So I graduated from Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville in 2021. And like I said, Midwest thought retail, or inpatient pharmacy, I worked in both of those areas, and, you know, during school and just wasn’t sure that it was really for me. I learned in probably my P3 year that these fellowships existed. And I was glad to connect with you at some point to bring you into those folds. Because I know the fellows don’t know anything about personal finance. I certainly didn’t. So those are very helpful sessions. I’m glad we collaborated in that way. But yeah, I ended up at Merck, doing a medical affairs fellowship, and mostly solid tumors, the little bit of work in infectious diseases as well, and just absolutely loved it. I knew I found what I was looking for in a career, it actually drew me in. I was very passionate about all of the work I was doing. So I actually transitioned after fellowship over to AstraZeneca, which is where I’m at now working in thoracic malignancies as a medical science liaison, which again, couldn’t be happier. I’m back where I grew up, surrounded by family. I’ve got a one year old daughter now. So that part’s important. It’s cheaper living here than New York City where some of my colleagues live. So yeah, couldn’t couldn’t complain. And that’s kind of how I ended up where I am now. Hey,

Tim Ulbrich 04:24

You’ve got the sought after sweet gig, working in an industry position, but living in an affordable cost of living area. We work with a lot of industry pharmacists that make a great income, certainly, but often cost of living is a challenging part of the plan. So you’re certainly happy for you and where that career has progressed. Let’s talk about the nonprofit organization that you started RX Teach. And tell us about what exactly is Rx Teach and ultimately, how did it come to be? How did it get started?

Brentsen Wolf 04:57

Rx Teach was a brainchild I had during fellowship, and for whatever reason, I thought I had enough free time to start this thing. So if that tells you anything about work life balance as a fellow versus maybe a resident, that might be a bit insightful. So I ended up, you know, just saying, screw it, I just want to do something. I wanted my own platform, I wanted to be able to say and talk about things that were important to me. And so I started this website. And honestly, the thought of it becoming a nonprofit organization was in my head, but was I was too busy. I didn’t know what I was doing. You know, it was it was down the line. So really, it started off almost like a blog, right? Just kind of writing member that I care about. I think you were one of the first people I talked to about it. So we really focused on a couple of different areas as a nonprofit, the two main ones that were preventative medicine, education. And the second one is cancer, essentially, broadly speaking. So we write a lot about those topics. But we also write about pretty much you know, across the board, anything that could contribute to pharmacists, or really any health care professions understanding of a certain topic. So we’ll do journal clubs, lifestyle management stuff. And we do all of that via essentially a weekly email, sometimes more than weekly. We’ve gathered a following and a community now that we’re very proud of. And like I said, we don’t keep a cent of anything, to be honest with you, it all gets donated. And that’s because our Rx Teach at its core, is still just a passion project and a hobby for the board, all the board members. You know, we we keep it very balanced. It’s in terms of work life balance. The second this feels like a job, we won’t do it. But you know, we’re very passionate about these topics. And so it’s been very easy for us to maintain this kind of work life balance with Rx Teach and still be able to provide scholarships and funds to students in the local communities like we’ve always sought after so.

Tim Ulbrich 06:58

So the website will link to this in the show notes, rxteach.com. So our listeners can check it out as well. Brenton, you mentioned we when you talked about some of the content, the articles is that you and the board? Are there other people that are contributing? Tell us about what that model looks like. I know content creation can be a labor of love. So I’m curious to hear more.

Tim Ulbrich 07:16

You know, it’s funny, you mentioned that. I was just thinking about this. I’m listening to a six part podcast series, one of my favorite shows the Huberman Lab podcast. And he did a six part series, his content is just fantastic. But he did a six part series on sleep with Matthew Walker, and it was one of the things I’m listening to and it’s like, Okay, think of all the things we learned about in pharmacy school about prescribing sleep medications and mechanism of action. Is this going to help, you know, latency and onset and people falling asleep versus, etc. We know nothing about, like prevention to the actual, like mechanics of sleep and is like, yes, yes. What you’re saying so true. Right. It’s, it’s that you know, we have such a strong focus, obviously, on the treatment, makes sense for pharmacists, but, you know, it’s like wow, the preventative aspect. And all in I remember even learning some of those things where it’s like sleep hygiene and, you know, self care, and we’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like maybe there’ll be a question there. Right. But what do I need to know about the drugs? Right?

Brentsen Wolf 07:16

Yeah, it’s definitely a it is a big week. So I frequently write for the website and my co-founder Kristin Lindauer, who’s a PGY1 trained pharmacist and is now an HIV ambulatory care pharmacist over in Virginia, also frequently writes. But we highlight student work constantly, it was one of the things that was important to us, because I didn’t think I had opportunities to really showcase my work or understanding or maybe some niche topics that I cared about as a student. So now we have students write for us all the time, you can go look at the website and see who has done that in the past. Oftentimes, if they write for us once they write for us, again, because it’s a decent experience. So students write for us, we also get other residents writing pharmacy residents, current fellows will right health care providers in any field. So we have Day in the Life series of like a veterinarian pharmacist, a retail pharmacist, and oncology pharmacist, etc. So we really highlight the full gambit. But we like I said, we do have particular interests in preventative medicine, and cancer, just because that’s where all of our money goes to. So content on that is obviously a big part of it. So for instance, we have a whole series on how to prescribe exercise, which I think is a big you don’t get that in pharmacy school now, right? Not to get on my soapbox, but honestly, like if a patient were to ask any given pharmacist or physician, like hey, I want to prevent cardiovascular disease, how do I do that? You’re not going to get a very in depth answer. Generally, you’re gonna get 30 minutes, five times a week of moderate intensity exercise. And that’s just to me not a good enough response. Right. And that’s the purpose of this whole thing, is how do we hash that out and really educate people on how would you respond to that patient in a way that I think is sufficient? And I do say I, it’s subjective term, but that’s the point of the organization.

Brentsen Wolf 10:05

Yeah, I totally agree. And I don’t think the healthcare system is even currently set up to understand the impact that, you know, preventative education could even bring, which is why we’re so interested. It’s a huge gap, huge gap. And it’s not just pharmacists. I want to say that.

Tim Ulbrich 10:21

That’s right. That’s right.

Brentsen Wolf 10:22

It’s physicians, nurses, PAs, whatever, you’re not learning this in school. So really, people have to self educate at this point, which is a bummer. But we hope to help make that easier for those people.

Tim Ulbrich 10:34

What is the passion behind the preventative medicine, the cancer focus? Those are really the two pillars that I’m hearing you share about? Where does that passion? Where does that interest come from?

Brentsen Wolf 10:43

Yeah, so I mean, for me, and you seem like a fit guy. I’ve always been in exercise and lifestyle management. And Kristin Lindauer, also has been too. She’s a I mean, she’s in better shape than me in certain ways. She just ran a marathon in three hours and 27 minutes!

Tim Ulbrich 10:59

No way!

Brentsen Wolf 11:00

She’s a superstar. Yeah, I mean, I hope to get that fast eventually. But, you know, fitness has always been something that we have been passionate about and have felt, at least anecdotally, for ourselves, the incredible benefits. And then all of a sudden, you know, you start seeing these publications around longevity and what contributes, what contributes to it. So anything from how a VO2 Max can predict your overall survival over a 10 year period, and how grip strength is associated with preventing hip fractures in the elderly. And all of these things start to stack on top of each other and really paint the picture of how important fitness lifestyle management is to preventing disease. And so it’s an area where I can easily nerd out in and you know, just dive very deep into the data. And I write about it frequently. So it was an obvious pillar. And plus, I had identified it as unmet need. I really think we need more of this information out there. And we need to encourage students, current students to look for this type of data so they can incorporate it into their practices once they once they graduate. As for cancer, you know, I think about it in my head is we’re attacking the two sides of healthcare: preventative, and then the sickest patients, right. And I started doing breast cancer genetics research, before I ever even got into pharmacy school. So oncology was a huge passion of mine, I had a mentor named Dr. Ronald Worthington, who really drove me towards that kind of thing. It’s why I almost went and did a PhD, right. And so I just, you know, you know, anyone with cancer, you know, what this is, like, it’s a tough field to be into a lot of the times. I think biologically, it’s, it’s extremely interesting. So again, it’s easy for me to write about because I have so much passion for it. But we need people that are willing to go into this space forever gonna take care of cancer, and cancer is not something you just cure, right? There’s 1000s of tumor types. I mean, it’s not it’s not how it works. And the general public thinks, oh, what’s the cure for cancer, it’s not going to be one thing, I can guarantee it. But you know, we need pharmacists, we need physicians, nurses that grow passion for oncology early, and then are willing to really put in the time down the line and hopefully, start kicking away at these patient outcomes, which are historically not I mean, you take you take metastatic lung cancer, five year overall survival rates of less than 10%. And I mean, that’s, you know, not not great, obviously, still unmet needs. So these are the areas we’ve chosen to focus on, again, for passion and impact.

Tim Ulbrich 13:23

I love what you’ve built, because to me, I can hear the passion in your voice, I can hear the energy and excitement, right, you’re building something that’s taking an area of interest for you, one that you’re naturally going to be excited about create creating content getting others involved in, that you’re then able to teach others of which has more impact, right, and I would assume that’s energizing as well, as you see, hey, people are learning about things that maybe they otherwise wouldn’t have learned about. And it’s written in a way that you can connect from a pharmacist to pharmacist perspective, and an immediate need, right, and ultimately leading to scholarships and other efforts that are having a benefit. So that has the the ingredients that are so important, that we often talk about on the for profit side of a business, but yeah, here we’re talking about the nonprofit side, which is, you know, equally if not more important. I’m curious to hear more about, you know, you started, I heard you say, Hey, I just got started, right. You know, I just got started, I knew I wanted to create my own platform. I didn’t necessarily think, or I couldn’t see all the dots connect of how this would become a 501 C3, maybe that was an idea that loosely you held. But ultimately, you went that direction. And it very much could have been a you know, blog site that turned into a for profit membership community, a lot of different models that are out there. What was that juncture decision point where you said, Hey, I’m going to keep forward with this educational mission. But I really do want to make it into a nonprofit effort.

Brentsen Wolf 14:44

Yeah. You kind of You briefly mentioned it and it was it’s based off of passion. And I think if you can articulate well for yourself, what is actually going to drive you and prevent you from burning out. That’s how you make this decision. For me if I knew that if I was trying to do this stuff, you know, as in a for profit matter, just to make money for myself, which I honestly don’t I see no issues with that I just know that I would have personally burned out on. It would it’s it would have become work instead of a passion project, I would have been chasing metrics that, you know, as a nonprofit, if I don’t make a million dollars, it, it does not bother me, I’m giving as much money away as I possibly can. And if I don’t hit a specific number, it doesn’t hurt me personally. I think if it was a for profit model, those numbers would have gotten into my head a little bit more, would have affected my mentality towards Rx Teach in general. And I was just trying to avoid that. And so, you know, getting the board together, a group of people that were on the same page is like, Hey, we’re just doing this in our free time. This is passion driven 100%. And whatever, however many dollars we can donate. That’s the goal. And we’re going to get that number as big as we can get it, but we’re not going to kill ourselves doing it. And that’s kind of how we landed on this model. Because, you know, I’ve got a one year old daughter at home, I got a full time job, all these things you got to you got to make sure it’s it’s driven by the right motivation, or you’re not gonna make it.

Tim Ulbrich 16:08

I like that, because I think I was sharing with someone recently that when we think about a lot of the burnout that we’re seeing in our profession and to be honest, it’s not just pharmacy, right? I think the healthcare workforce at large, obviously, the impact of the pandemic and, and other factors in there as well, I think something like this, not to suggest you to go out and start your own nonprofit, but be being involved in an effort, whether that’s an investment of time, money, both, right, I think that participation in something bigger than the grind of what you’re doing every day, even for those who say, I love my job, great. There’s still a lot of stressing me evolve. You’ve got a one one year old child at home, like life’s busy, right. And I think, you know, for us to kind of go back to our roots and say, Hey, why did we get interested in healthcare in the first place? I think we lose that sometimes over time. And just an encouragement to listeners, you know, whether it’s getting involved in Rx Teach, whether it’s getting involved something local in your community, or both great, like, what are some of those initiatives and opportunities where people can get involved? And I think that naturally can be in part an antidote to some of that burnout that we so often see. So curious, certainly to hear you tie that directly back to that decision, that strategic move you made to go into the nonprofit direction. Yeah. How do you, not make money, right, that’s for profit language. But how do you ultimately raise funds that get delivered in the form of scholarships. Is it individual donations? What what is the predominant ways in which you’re raising money as an organization?

Brentsen Wolf 17:34

So right now we do it in three different ways, right. So the first way is, what we started off at the beginning is that this is gonna be a free resource for anyone to read and do with what they want. And we’re gonna go deep into data, we’re gonna do all these things. If you care about our mission, and you want to get this content with a small monthly donation, we’re gonna let you do that. And so we just set up a couple of different subscriber levels. Yeah, paid members get some extra stuff, you know, maybe an extra article here and there. But really, it is like, hey, if you find value in this and care about what we’re doing, it’s always going to be free. And we have because we want to change the community, right? i If you can’t afford it, I’m not going to make you pay for it. But if you want to contribute, feel free to do that. So we have a subscriber base model, which is probably where we get the most of our money. We also have a couple of digital assets, which are pretty new that I actually have enjoyed this process a lot. So we have some cheats, cheat sheets on things like cirrhosis, sickle cell disease, we have a how to guide for Journal Club which I absolutely love.

Tim Ulbrich 18:33

I could’ve used that one in pharmacy school!

Brentsen Wolf 18:34

Yeah, I totally agree with that thinking back to pharmacy school days! Kristin put that together, which I think it was important for a resident or someone with residency experience to do that, because she puts Pearls in there, but like, what, what questions can you expect your preceptor to ask you, so that you can prepare for this journal club where in an article can you find this information? You know, whether it’s New England Journal medicine, or general oncology, whatever it is JAMA? So that’s a great resource. And we’ve also paired up with Dr. Alex Popin, and who wrote a book called High Powered Medicine. Yeah, so we sell his book on the website, and we have an agreement in place. And we split the profits for that, which we’re very thankful to him to, you know, contribute to Rx Teacg in that way, as well. So digital assets is the second piece. And then the third piece is just like you said, one time donations, anyone who wants to give money based off of, you know, hearing this podcast, or you ran into me at a bar, and I was telling you about grip strength. Right. And they were like, oh, that’s you know, that’s interesting. So people can certainly do that on the website, just one time donations. And of course, we appreciate that. And then like I said, we have partnered with local universities to actually allocate the funds in the form of scholarships and those areas I’ve already mentioned, but that’s how we actually bring the cash in.

Tim Ulbrich 19:48

So one of the things I’m always curious to hear from people at start anything for profit, nonprofit is, you know, it’s one thing to have an idea it’s another thing to execute on an idea and it’s a big step and for some people, it’s the actual mechanics. For others. It’s the fear of, hey, you know, what if nobody kind of likes the idea of what I have out there, what if this isn’t successful? You obviously took those steps, which you know, are great that you did it led to the platform and what you have here now and certainly something you can continue to build off of. But talk us through some of those early mechanics and decisions. You know, you’re talking about a board, you talked about 501C3, like, I think sometimes even though you haven’t been doing this that long, sometimes we blow past those things like, hey, those happened. But those are big milestones that often give me barriers. So talk to us about those early stages involved going from idea to actually get into the point where you can meet someone at a bar or a conference or whatever, and say, Hey, you can make a tax deductible donation, right?

Brentsen Wolf 20:44

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that’s a great, it’s a great question. And it is there’s, there’s multiple steps. But before I get into that, I just want to say that like, if you’re thinking about doing something, whether it’s a nonprofit, for profit, blog, side project, whatever it is, there’s never going to be a perfect time. You know, I hear all the time, like, oh, once I get X number of dollars in the bank, or once I get to this place in my career, that’s when I’ll do this. And I can tell you, you know, ever since having my first child, you just, there’s no perfect time, it’s always going to be hard in some fashion, there’s always going to be some kinds of challenges, and you’re going to meet those along the way and overcome them and feel good about that. So stop waiting is my first piece of advice, just take the first step. And if it if it goes slowly, if it takes a long time, or it’s really difficult upfront, that’s fine, it was never going to be super easy, right. So that’s, that’s my first piece. But in terms of actually doing the nonprofit stuff, specifically, you know, I was working with a lawyer in our family, which certainly helped me. But talking with someone who has done this in the past is definitely a first step and just feel out what you need. So things like your bylaws, your articles of incorporation, your employee identification number, application, your Conflict of Interest Statement, these are kind of that’s kind of the four core things, you really need upfront, to register with your state. You have to start at the state level, you don’t go straight to the federal government, you have to, you know, become a corporation in the state level. Once you do that, that’s when you can actually send in some of the documentation at the federal level. And hopefully, if again, if you’re working with people who have done this before, when you actually put in your stuff with the state, you’re putting in there that you intend to be a 501C3, you’re making sure that you meet the criteria for nonprofits. So you need to go do some research on. You have to be in certain areas in order to qualify for nonprofit tax exempt status. So you want to word everything from your mission statement to your bylaws to support the fact that this is going to be a nonprofit organization, you do all that stuff upfront first, before ever talking with the federal government. For us, we were able to send in what’s called an EZ application, literally capital E capital Z, because we were bringing in less than $50,000 a year annually. That’s kind of the cut off. Even if you are making less than that you can do a full fledged application if you wish to. But certainly if you’re bringing in a million dollars in your first year, you have to you can’t use this EZ applicant is one piece of paper front and back and you’re just checking, I just checked no for everything right? It was very easy. But once you get back your EIN and your the, you’ll get an official letter from the government saying like, hey, we recognize you as a 501 C 3, that’s when you can start to reap some of the benefits of the nonprofit. So things like we use Stripe, to bring in money from our websites and Stripe has nonprofit rates that we can utilize. A lot of these third party vendors will have nonprofit rates. And sometimes it’s not public. Go look on Reddit like hey, is there a special rate for so and so and go take advantage of that. But after that you are going to file some stuff, even once you hear back from the federal government. And that’s going to be annually. It’s like federal income tax your state and income tax. In Illinois, you have to at least register with the Attorney General. You know, stuff like that is it’s paperwork. You know, that’s always going to be a small part of this. And I think staying organized is important. But again, just take a breath if you’re new to all this legal stuff like I was, it can seem a little bit like, I don’t even know what I’m doing. But at the end of the day, it’s it’s just paperwork. You know, if you’re an organized person, you’re gonna be fine. And I certainly don’t think it’s anything that should prevent you from doing this. Again, if things get off to a rocky start, like, especially in a nonprofit sense, who cares, you’re doing this for a very good reason, right? Like be easy on yourself. Just get there eventually. And let things let things sort them out as they will.

Tim Ulbrich 24:32

I’m with you on the you know, I’ve kind of gone down this twice now in the last six months you and I talked a little bit about this. We started the nonprofit YFP Gives and your overview was great by the way from state to federal level. So anyone’s looking for like a checklist or at least just a frame of reference of the steps involved. That was fantastic! The first time we went through it we used an attorney. So helpful, right because it seems so overwhelming until you can see it. And to your point, there’s, you know, shortened forms based on your projected revenue and other things. But just to see the process from a state level up to the 501C3, okay, now that you’ve done that, you’ve got to register with the Attorney General on the state level, you got to file this solicitation format. For someone to just be able to say do XY and Z, I can assure you as well worth the fees, but I respect that that can be a barrier. Yeah. Second time I went through it, which was something not nonrelated on the pharmacy side, we EZ application was the form I had been through it, I kind of saw all the steps and I felt comfortable, like navigating that part myself seeing all that, but I couldn’t have wrapped my arms around it the first time. So I think that’s something as folks are thinking about this, you know, anticipating those legal fees, and I think it is something that certainly does add a lot of value, you’re growing through it. So great, great overview.

Brentsen Wolf 25:52

Actually, I want to add one thing to the one of the values that the attorney can can bring in is not only make sure you file the right paperwork, but oftentimes these folks have worked with corporations in the past, and they kind of know, over the years, what you know, what problems might arise. And so they will give you recommendations on how to maybe word bylaws and this kind of thing to prevent an issue that would happen if you wouldn’t have taken this step up front. So that’s a very important thing. I talked about preventative medicine, you might as well be preventative on this front as well. And an attorney can do that.

Tim Ulbrich 26:25

That’s great. Let’s talk about the future, Brentsen. So as you look out over the next 5, 10,15 years, however long you want to go for the vision, you know, what does success look like for Rx Teach?You’ve taken this important step from idea to going through all the mechanics, the legal stuff, we just started, getting to the point where you can take tax deductible donations, you’ve been creating content for a while. What is the next iteration look like for RxTeach in terms of the work that you’re doing? And and how you would measure success?

Brentsen Wolf 26:55

Yeah, so you know, I think we’re constantly trying to assess community change, at least locally. And so that has started to happen already. RX Teach, you know, I think influencing folks locally. And that’s, that’s great news, and it’s specifically on these topics of interest. But like big, big picture goal in the next 10 years, would be to essentially expand our scholarship availability to more or less every pharmacy school in the country, but also get outside of pharmacy school. So we started with pharmacy just because that’s our background, but we’ve already started working with some schools of Exercise Science, mostly because, you know, in my perfect world, those two things come together a lot more than they currently do, you know, taking that preventative side of healthcare, into the healthcare providers, actual education. Again, that’s an area of unmet need. So scholarships across the country is what we want to be known for, to where if you can show that you’re actually interested in these very important topics, we’re going to give you money. And I feel no guilt at all about putting dollar signs in front of certain topics in order to drive people towards, well, maybe I’ll at least look up what that means if I want to get the scholarship! That’s fine with me, you know, I that’s I have no guilt on that kind of thing. And then, of course, building out the types of people who are willing to write for RX Teach and, you know, just help get our message out there. Cardiac disease is the number one killer of Americans. Kills more people than liver disease and diabetes and stroke, and it combined, it’s ridiculous. So, you know, the more we can prevent these types of things, and however, we’re going to do that, whether it’s scholarships, putting out putting out more content, selling more stuff to fund these types of events. That’s what we’re going to do. And again, I guess the number one thing for 10 years is don’t burn out, right? So it’s right, you know, keep finding that passion, make sure I’m keeping me and the rest of the board ignited about what we’re doing. And just following that passion.

Tim Ulbrich 28:48

As my partner Tim often says, you know, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. I think that’s true here as well. Right? You’ve got an important mission that transcends not only 10 years, but transcends your career. Sure. And to me, what I hear you doing, which I love is you’re getting others involved. This is not a Brentsen initiative. This is a board. This is a bigger initiative. And as those tentacles get out further, you know, it’s not about you and the face and the name. It’s about the impact, right that you can have. And that impact, I presume, isn’t going away. So when you say in 3040 years, like, hey, it’s time for someone else to take the reins like you’ve got other people that you’ve delegated, and gotten involved with on the way. This has been awesome. I appreciate you taking the time again, Rxteach.org. Make sure to check out the website we’d love for our community to not only learn about what you’re doing, get involved financially. You know, reach out to Brentsen, the team if you’ve got ideas for content that you’d like to contribute, make a donation if there’s a connection or relationship that you think could be helpful. Make sure to reach out to do that. As Brentsen says on the website, “Every cent will be given to students as merit based scholarships in cancer research and preventative medicine education.” So if you make Rx Teach a part of your giving plan, know that that’s going to be going to good use. So Brentsen, thanks so much for taking Time to come on the show.

Brentsen Wolf 30:01

Thanks, Tim. Really appreciate it.

Tim Ulbrich 30:04

[DISCLAIMER] As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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YFP 359: Pharmacy Innovators with Jamie Wilkey, PharmD

Posted on by YFP Media

Dr. Jamie Wilkey shares her entrepreneurial journey of building and selling a business on this episode of the Pharmacy Innovators series hosted by Corrie Sanders.

This episode is brought to you by YFP+.

Episode Summary

In our YFP Podcast Pharmacy Innovators with Corrie Sanders series, Dr. Jamie Wilkey joins Corrie to discuss her entrepreneurship journey, emphasizing the importance of thinking big, pushing boundaries, and utilizing education to achieve success. Dr. Wilkey shares her journey of transitioning from a community pharmacist role to building a successful pharmacogenomics practice, highlighting the importance of validating ideas, leveraging scrappy methods, and empowerment through helping others. Dr. Wilkey also shares her experience with selling a pharmacy business and valuable insights on their professional journey, emphasizing the importance of adapting to the changing landscape of the pharmacy industry and embracing digital business ownership.

About Today’s Guest

Dr. Jamie Wilkey is a PharmD who loves what she does and brings passion and happiness to the pharmacy profession.

Jamie has had a varied career from working retail pharmacy, to owning, scaling and selling her own company, and to working as a consultant for top universities and companies. Jamie is optimistic about the future of pharmacy and knows great things are in store for those pharmacists who are willing to push boundaries, to think big, and to use the full extent of their education.

You can find her happily living debt-free with her 4 boys being outside as much as humanly possible and enjoying Utah’s National Parks. Or reading. A lot.

Key Points from the Episode

Pharmacy career paths with Dr. Jamie Wilkie. [0:00]
Building a pharmacogenomics business as a side hustle while working full-time as a pharmacist. [2:27]
Entrepreneurship, pharmacogenomics, and career transition. [9:11]
Transitioning from pharmacist to content creator, with insights on building a business with vulnerability and transparency. [16:19]
Selling a business after two years of growth and scaling. [21:34]
Selling a pharmacy business, including the importance of mentors, due diligence, and a clean break. [26:32]
Adapting pharmacy businesses for success in today’s world. [31:40]
Embracing growth and personal development as an entrepreneur. [36:18]
Various income streams, including coaching, teaching, and pharmacy work. [39:40]
Entrepreneurship and pharmacy practice with a focus on finding joy and success in the field. [42:39]

Episode Highlights

“And so it was really cool seeing that, like it’s not the smartest person or the most qualified person who can build their own thing.” – Jamie Wilkey [3:47]

“Saving gives you such a buffer. And I really think it’s kind of a secret sauce for succeeding in entrepreneurship. When you don’t need your business to turn a profit the next day and aren’t white knuckling it saying, I have to have a paycheck by the end of this week. It becomes more fun and a creative pursuit like a hobby that I’m going to figure out. But I’m also going to get paid too. And it’s so different and so fun.” – Jamie Wilkey [16:57]

“In a way being vulnerable and saying like, I hate retail, I gotta get out. And I’m passionate about precision medicine so I’m doing this one way or another, makes it easier to jump on board because people can see themselves in you when you’re first starting.” – Jamie Wilkey [18:57]

“Just start, just do the thing. Put yourself out there, start solving a problem in the world and don’t overthink it. Put your energy into action.” -Jamie Wilkey [31:42]

“I feel like it’s riskier just to stay in your job with no other revenue options than to build something on the side a few hours a week and think in terms of years and decades rather than needing a quick buck tomorrow.” – Jamie Wilkey [33:29]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Corrie Sanders 00:00

Hi YFP Community. Corrie Sanders here host of the Pharmacy Innovators segment of the YFP Podcast. Pharmacy Innovators is designed for pharmacist navigating the entrepreneurial journey. In this series we feature stories and strategies to help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs. Today we have Dr. Jamie Wilkey, a PharmD who loves what she does and brings passion and happiness to the pharmacy profession. Jamie has had a varied career from working in retail pharmacy to owning, scaling and selling her own company. She also works as a consultant for top universities. Jamie is optimistic about the future of pharmacy and knows great things are ahead. For those pharmacists who are willing to push boundaries, think big and use the full extent of their education. Today, you can find her happily living debt free with her four boys and being outside as much as humanly possible while enjoying Utah’s National Parks. I’m excited to share so many points of growth from Jamie’s optimistic perspective and hope you will find this episode to be inspiring from not only the lens of pharmacy, but how Jamie’s attitude and perseverance has served her work life balance. Please welcome to the podcast, Dr. Jamie Wilkey. Jamie, welcome to the podcast. We’re excited to have you here.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 01:10

Thank you, Corrie! This is gonna be so fun!

Corrie Sanders 01:13

And I know that you’ve done a lot of podcasts in the past, you have a very public content platform. So we won’t go too deep into your background. But for those that don’t know you, why don’t you just start with briefly describing your path in pharmacy with school and training and any additional certificates you might have.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 01:29

Sure, Cory, so I grew up in Wyoming. So I went to University of Wyoming pharmacy school, which was one of the best decisions I ever made, graduated as a 24 year old and I started making a six figure salary. And I was like over the moon like, this is why I went to pharmacy school. So I could be a girl with a doctorate degree earning like $130,000 a year and not have a career ladder. I could just do that and go part time when I had kids. And so that’s what I did. I worked full time for a few years. And then I ultimately had four little boys. Two years apart, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And it really helped to have a pharmacy job where I could just go part time during all those years of having babies and toddlers. And so I worked part time for many years at Walgreens. Ultimately, after 10 years, I had still been at Walgreens and I felt like, Oh man, this job that I thought was like so perfect. And it really did serve me well for a decade. Ah, there’s no career ladder, there’s no growth. I’m like on the hamster wheel doing the same thing. And I’ll probably keep doing it for another 30 years unless I change something. And so Corrie, really the thing that changed my whole career was just getting on LinkedIn. Until then I didn’t even have a LinkedIn account. In the summer of 2020, I created an account to look for a new job. And once I saw other pharmacists on there, like doing their own thing, not just working retail, hospital, or as an MSL, it felt like I was coming out of a dark cave into like the light of potential. And it was just so exciting to me to see that like, oh, I don’t have to rely on getting a new job or getting more certifications to build a dream life like, these other people are doing it themselves. I’m gonna jump in the race, I can do it too. I have no idea what I’m doing. But clearly, like your future is determined by you. And I want to just try my hand at it. So I just got on LinkedIn and started writing on there everyday kind of documenting, like, what the heck I’m doing like, here I am this retail girl, I have no residency, no fellowship, no certifications, I’ve literally just been clocking into a job for a decade, and only doing CEs required to keep my license like, I loved my job. But I was not overly engaged in being a pharmacist. And so it was really cool seeing that, like it’s not the smartest person or the most qualified person who can build their own thing. It’s just the person who thinks they can. And so also I saw the pattern very quickly that like the people who have an audience who are teaching other people who are like monetizing their knowledge in some way, are very consistent at writing online, was like, well, that’s free. I don’t know what I’m doing. But I’m like, such a nerd for habits. Like I will set a habit every single day to write online every day. So that’s what I did. And it ultimately turned into me turning into an entrepreneur, and starting my own business because I writing not only on LinkedIn, but I was like on Instagram, the only social media account I had and learning about pharmacogenomics. I started like posting to my friends like hey, did you know a genetic test, like change prescribing for the rest of your life? I think this is so cool, but I want to try this on someone, does anyone have trouble with like medicine that you want to like let me practice on? And so many of my friends raise their hands and neighbors came out of the woodworks that like oh my gosh, I’m struggling with medicine. Can you help me? That I started buidling a business before I even had a business before I had an LLC or done any of the paperwork. And so it was really cool to like validate ideas out of the gate in a really scrappy way that was totally me to just start earning money and Corrie, I tell you, once you like actually charge for your services as a pharmacist, oh, really lights a fire under you that like, wow, I just earned way more helping one patient on a zoom call, then, like a day in the pharmacy. And so it was really cool and empowering to one, see how working in a new way, like lit a fire in me that I wasn’t just like a robot, checking the boxes that I like, help people in new ways. And two that, like, what it was like to help someone and to get a raving review and like really feel like I helped their life. So once I did that, it felt like, okay, the time is ticking on my retail career. It’s been cool, but I can’t do this forever. And so I just, it was so scrappy, Corrie, like just talking to friends and neighbors reaching out on LinkedIn to prescribers out here in Utah. I built my own consulting practice where I saw patients remotely and in their clinics, and just was like a pharmacogenomic pharmacist. And how did I become that from a Walgreens girl, I got a certificate. I did like the 16 hour CE certificate like yeah, now I’m PGX certified like, it took a week. It was not hard, because we’re drug experts, and we just so undervalue our expertise. And the biggest learning you get is like by actually doing it. And by helping and people don’t care. They just know like, you’re a drug expert. If it takes you a while to figure it out behind the scenes before you meet with me, I don’t care, just help me. And so that was really cool. Okay, that was kind of long. I’ll start I’ll start to speed up now. And so as I’m like helping people, one on one, I’m also building on LinkedIn, and sharing like, all of all of the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. And a number of people started keep repeating, reaching out to me on direct messages, and like, hey, that’s, I love what you’re building. Can you teach me how? And so ultimately, like, guys, I’m still at Walgreens, because you can’t just quit your job overnight, unless you’re completely financially independent. And I’m working in the cracks on my time. And, oh, I have four kids, you know. So I have no time. But I want to teach other pharmacists this. And so one of my friends gave me really good advice. She was like Jamie, just create a little mini online course, that way you can teach people at like, their own speed, it doesn’t take your time, create it once. And just help them that way. And so that was awesome advice. So I just did and Corrie, I tell you what that first course was like, so awkward and bad. I just like got on Zoom and recorded, like 12 different lessons without like a PowerPoint or anything, it was just me talking. But it had the core of what they want it and I sold that to 11 people for $500. Like, here you go, tell me what you liked to tell me what you hated. Tell me what I could have improved. And they were really candid and honest and saying like I loved this. This I could have used more of. Don’t include this. And so what turned out is my scrappy product, then I could polish and redo like rerecord with good visuals and resources, then I could turn around and sell it for $1,000. And so that’s what I started doing in mid 2021. Started selling my online course, just through my LinkedIn posts, not like ads or anything because I still didn’t know how to do ads. Started selling that. And it grew and grew and grew and grew and grew and grew. And ultimately, after two and a half years, I’d earned more than a million dollars in revenue from that little course, which was just wild to me to see how like one digital asset can grow in value and in reach. So ultimately, we helped more than 350 pharmacists understand and build like their own pharmacogenomic practice, and it was really cool. Where do you want me to go with this story?

Corrie Sanders 09:11

I’m gonna I’m gonna break it down even further when I say that that was a great bird’s eye view to start with with, you know, where your training was where you spent a lot of your initial pharmacy experience, then ultimately, where you saw a gap and a need in care and how you pivoted to something that could be monetized in a sustainable working way over time. So I want to I’m going to chunk it up just because I want the audience to really learn about your mindset and the steps that you had taken at certain points during that story. Let’s start with your path to entrepreneurship in general. So it sounds like you heard about pharmacogenomics through some kind of source and you’re like, Wow, this is something that’s totally applicable to practice. And while you were still practicing in retail, you started building out a pharmacogenomics consulting company, is that correct?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 09:57

Correct. Yes.

Corrie Sanders 09:59

So reaching out to different providers on LinkedIn. And then ultimately, were you working for part time at Walgreens at that point, or and you were able to take on a couple additional days in clinic? How did that transition look like between your retail position and taking on consulting and either a part time or eventually a full time manner?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 10:18

Yeah, so I was at Walgreens mostly full time, it was probably like 30 hours a week. And so in my days off, I would see patients when I was not at Walgreens. And then when I ultimately got into a clinic, and they wanted to have me there, I just gave them my schedule on advanced and said, like, got it most Fridays, I will be here, like, fill it up with my patients on Fridays and just batch it like, I would love to be here every day. But until then just batch it on Friday. And they’re like, great, we’re happy to have you. That’s when you’re available. Patients don’t know.

Corrie Sanders 10:52

Like you’re not there, Monday through Friday!

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 10:53

Yes, behind the scenes like we’re next available is this Friday or next Friday, when would you like it? And so it made it easier to batch things and to like, validate that this is working and see the revenue coming in. Because although it wasn’t thrilled with my Walgreens job, it still has an awesome paycheck. And it’s still a good job. And so I was not about to like just burn the bridge quit and then hope entrepreneurship works. Because I have no experience. I’ve never done this before. I do not come from an entrepreneurial family. So it’s definitely like figuring it out. But while you’re balancing a job, like a job is such a good resource to give you the safety net, to build something on the side that it felt like other than missing time watching Netflix, there really wasn’t a downside. Because I’m getting experience and learning when people said no or no thanks, like it it taught me something too. It wasn’t like, Well, this has to succeed, or it was a waste of time.

Corrie Sanders 11:46

And then at what point did you make the formal transition? So you’ve got four kids at this point, it’s not like you can walk away from a job without a proof of concept going into this new consulting journey. So at what point did you decide okay, this is it, the model on the side is now something that’s worth taking on full time. What did that breaking point or tipping point look like for you? And when did that happen?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 12:08

Once I crossed about $75,000 in revenue, it took probably eight months. I was like, oh, okay, in eight months, I earned more than I would have earned at Walgreens over that time. So then I the next step wasn’t quitting it was like, okay, just put me on PRN, like, keep me on the books, but I don’t want to be scheduled regularly anymore. So then I would fill in like, a couple times a month like for, that’s back when like COVID clinics were thinking and like, I was still in the system for a long time just to like, keep that as a safety net. And still just keep cash flowing too.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 12:56

Which I think that’s a great way to put it is that this now your full time job has become your side gig. And your side gig has transitioned into your full time job, and any other elaborations on what chapter of life you’re in at the moment. So when we talk to pharmacy entrepreneurs, I mean, there’s a million reasons under the sun, why you shouldn’t be making this transition or taking something on whether it’s student loans or kids or it doesn’t meet your retirement goals or your risk. If you’re risk averse or risk tolerance, whatever risk strategy that you have any other insight into the chapter of your life, besides having four kids you were in at that moment that you think was helpful in making that transition, or that would be useful to know.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 13:33

So at this point, we have four kids, we’ve had bought our house a number of years ago, right after graduation. And so between and my husband is working, he’s working full time. So there’s dual income, which is really helpful to get a solid financial foundation. So at this point, we had our house and we’re heavily paying it off quickly and had been maxing out our 401ks every year ever since we were like new little workers, and have a really good six to 12 month savings of both of our incomes so that like if neither of us works for the next year, could we pay for life, assuming that like we both lost our job and like, couldn’t get one for a year because I am very risk averse, Corrie. I love like stability, and I love money and I love being able to make decisions from a point of abundance rather than scarcity. And so it did. It took, let’s say this point, it’s like 10 to 13 years into my career. So it was not a new grad. I had my student loans paid off. We had no debt other than our house. And my husband has a good job. He’s an accountant. And so we both are professionals. We’re in a really good place financially because we’re savers too like, we don’t have the super big house and like all the new cars and stuff. So as savers it felt like okay, we’ve been killing ourselves off like saving and working. My next big crazy goal, Corrie, was that like, I want to pay off this house, I just want to be completely debt free before I turned 40. And I kept like crunch every time I’m at work. I’m like crunching the numbers like, Okay, how many more years at Walgreens? How many extra shifts doing overtime? I felt like okay, I could do that in five years. But after I got on LinkedIn, it kind of ruined me seeing that like, but you can also make money other ways. So I just got to try this, like, can I maybe get there faster, or in a more fun way than like physically being at that retail store. While like, I don’t want to leave my kids, especially with COVID. It made it very apparent that like, white collar workers can grab their laptop and go home. Everyone else, like you’re on the frontlines, you’re a hero and like, I don’t want to be a hero. I want to be with my kids and earn money in a new way. Because I’m kind of jealous of all, like Utah. The point of view time in it’s called Silicon slopes, because there’s just like so much tech and software development that it feels like it’s in the air that like work in new ways, do cool things. And here I am, like an antiquated pharmacy job. So it felt like I just got to a point. I just got to try. I don’t have much to lose other than nothing. There’s always a job at big box stores.

Corrie Sanders 16:19

No, and that was really insightful, insightful. I love how you shared how much savings you guys had between you and your husband and the risk strategy that you had taken on. And not only some of your already accomplishments with your debt, but what were your debt goals long term? I think that that’s so important to outline prior to making a career transition, where there’s a lot of risk involved is knowing what the backup plan is, or how much time you have before that backup plan needs to be activated. So it sounds like you and your husband had a lot of healthy conversations prior to that jumping point in which you already had a proof of concept.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 16:51

We’re both savers and really like yes, since this is the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, like truly saving, saving saving gives you such a buffer. And I really think it’s kind of a secret sauce for succeeding in entrepreneurship is that you don’t like need your business to turn a profit the next day, you don’t need and are white knuckling it saying like, I have to have a paycheck by the end of this week. It becomes more fun and like a creative pursuit that’s like, this is a hobby that I’m going to figure out. But I’m also going to get paid from, too and it’s so different and so fun.

Corrie Sanders 17:25

And I’m sure that your clientele and people that you talk with can also tell when you’re coming from a place of abundance versus scarcity, as you said earlier, like having to make that next sale versus making the next sale when it fits into their timeline, not necessarily yours. It’s such a big difference. Yeah. So the next question I want to talk about is when you made the transition, so we talked about how you started transitioning into content creation, creation for pharmacogenomics for other pharmacists. When did that happen? You were consulting for how long? And then when did you notice on LinkedIn? Okay, this is something that other pharmacists are looking for. And I’m gonna start now doing this on the side, in addition to consulting, what did that look like?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 18:05

Probably be like between three and six months.

Corrie Sanders 18:07

Oh, wow.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 18:08

So it was still pretty fast. So it was still new ish. But I think that’s part of what made it work was like, I’m new with you. But I figured out the next three steps, and we’re doing this together, and I never wanted it to be like, I am the best. I know the way I am perfect. More like, here’s what I’ve learned, here’s general principles. Now, within this program, we’re all coming together. And we’re all precision pharmacists. And we’re all going to help each other and teach each other because there’s not only like one way to do something, what works for me in Utah may be different for someone in Arizona, and like we’re pooling knowledge and pooling resources, rather than, like, I must have everything figured out. Because I think that’s what stops a lot of pharmacists like, until I know everything and I have X amount of experience that no one will help me. In a way being vulnerable and being you and saying like, I hate retail, I gotta get out. And I’m passionate about precision medicine. So I’m doing this one way or another, like, makes it easier to jump on board because people can see themselves in you when you’re first starting.

Corrie Sanders 19:12

And I think that’s something I’ve always respected about you is the amount of transparency that you share with your audience and with the academy is, I’m not here to tell you I know every answer, but I’m here to tell you that I’m going to work through this with you. And I think that’s such a better business model than preaching you have all the answers. So I love that it’s so much more relatable with that transparency comes a lot of relationship and building abilities. But I just love the line that you said I’m here to learn with you and I’m here to learn alongside you and help you get to the same end goal. We have a similar goal in mind. So what did it and that was Arches, LLC is the LLC that you eventually started. What did Arches look like over time? So you start with just 11 minute video or 11 short videos, and then you started putting out more visual content, you started growing the audience? And did you eventually start growing employees? What did Arches evolve into over the next couple of years?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 20:09

Yeah, so for the first year, it was just me. And then I hired my first VA – virtual assistant. Because being married to an accountant, I know all the details of like employees, and how complicated an employee could be. So I, I, we never did hire an employee, it was all contract work. And especially it was really just me, I hired one VA, it was a good learning experience for both of us. But then I found like my BFF VA, Alexa, she’s still like my best friend, six months later as a recommendation from a friend. And she and I just like tag teamed it and went full force ahead that she really was the one who ran the company. And I got to like, be the face of it and provide the content. And she did all the back end logistics that take a lot of time. And I’m not a detail oriented person. And so it worked really well. And hiring people from the Philippines are the best because they have an amazing grasp of English. They’re such hard workers. And they’re at a price point that new business owners can afford rather than someone in the United States. And I am a little afraid for the US workforce, because everyone I’ve worked with from the Philippines is like just such an incredible human and turned into a good friend that like, it was a great way to start hiring. So it was me and Alexa, it originally started with like, just pace yourself videos of like, what else do you want, I’ll create this video. And then we created a private group on Facebook. So we had a private Facebook page. And that way, we’re like talking to each other every day. And then we’d have live weekly calls, every week, we would learn something else or have like a guest come in and speak on something that was adjacent that I wasn’t an expert in, like nutrigenomics, isn’t amazing how nutrition is affected by your genetics and have like nutrigenomics speakers and lamps come in. And so I recorded all of those and added it to the course. So by the end of two years, there’s more than 70 hours of material in there. Wow. Which was huge. But it was also really awesome. Because it felt really comprehensive to understand like how to start a business, how to work with a lab, and giving people like labs themselves to work with and how to understand state rules and regulations. And then we started creating like documents and templates, like, here’s a whole bunch of legal forms, you’re probably going to need to start. Don’t hire an attorney for $6,000, like I had to do. Here’s a good base baseline to start with and learn that like maybe legal advice can help tweak it rather than everyone starting from scratch. So we started like pooling, like what people needed and created group resources as well. That was really fun.

Corrie Sanders 22:44

That’s amazing. That’s amazing. It’s worth joining the academy just to save on the legal. At what point did you start considering selling the business? So I think that this is maybe something that you haven’t discussed on a podcast just yet. So I’m excited to dive into this. But how long had you had Arches LLC, to where you hit a certain inflection point where you’re like, wow, this is now something that I can consider selling? This is a worthwhile brand. When did that come into conversation? And who brought that to your attention? Or did you bring that to the attention of others? I want to highlight on a couple of things that you’ve said, because I think these are so valuable to the listener. And I know that these things are not generally taught in pharmacy school. So you said I am just a scrappy starter, I like to start and build things. One, definitely not taught in pharmacy school. And then maturing and scaling of a business. Also not taught in pharmacy school. Two very, very different skill sets. But you also said, you know, we leaned into mentors into resources outside of healthcare, which a lot of pharmacists we’re just so siloed into our own little bubbles, our pharmacy bubbles. I think it’s important to view healthcare and view your services through the lens of someone who is not involved in health care at all. And it sounds like that was really instrumental, especially at this building and scaling and selling portion of your business, it would be hard to find a pharmacist, I think that was so successful. But I love how you took on the lens of you know, I’m going to use this as a an internship into how to build businesses, because that will be a useful skill set, I’m sure for you in the future once you decide what your next steps are. So throughout this selling and building process, you had these two gentlemen who it sounds like you met through different networks. Who else had your best interest in mind? So did you, your husband’s an accountant, but what other resources did you use to make sure that you as the seller, were doing your due diligence and your homework and this was going to be something that was beneficial not only to your academy, but to you as well?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 23:19

Yeah, so it was two years in two years in, I felt like I was working with a mentor who was helping me with like webinars and how to sell and I he wasn’t actually like a person who did that, he runs a company similar to mine, except it’s for finances. And I just met him through a friend. And so he didn’t, I was like, Oh my gosh, teach me how to apply this to my program. But he wasn’t like, I’m a guy who teaches webinars. I was like, No, I saw what you did teach me how to do how to do it. So it was really cool. And after that, he just said like, Would you ever consider selling this? Because what you have is such a smooth running machine. Would you ever consider selling it? And at first I was like, No, this is my baby. I love it. But then after planting that seed, and over the next couple of months seeing that like oh man like these students are doing so well. They’re outgrowing me, because I can’t keep seeing patients, growing my own practice and doing this own business they’re two. Although it’s the same topic, two very different businesses that it felt like it’s probably the most responsible thing for this group to bring in scalable leadership because I’m a very scrappy starter, Corrie, I love like starting things and building from scratch, but I don’t like maturing things and scaling. I’ve learned that about myself. I don’t even like working with teams very much. Because ultimately, so it’s me and Alexa, and then we hired a couple of the students to help with marketing and to help like nurture the relationships in there, which was awesome, but I also found myself like, I just don’t like teams, I just want to build my own thing. You know, and so that combination of seeing my personality characteristics come through and the sustainability of what I had, and wanting to like serve these people best rather than keeping it as like my pride, like, No, this is my baby, I’m gonna keep it. I really want to do what’s best for this group. And so I told him, I was like, I don’t know how to sell a company, who do I talk to? And so he introduced me to someone in Utah, who buys and sells companies. And he was awesome, turned into a really good friend. And he helped me list the company and talk to multiple buyers and sellers. Well, I’m the seller, multiple buyers. And it actually turned out kind of funny, because right before we had a buyer who was interested and was sending a letter of intent, and he’s like, Actually, can I just buy it with my friend, and we’ll run it together. Because I’ve seen the books like I love this, can we just run it together? I was like, Cool, I’m down with that, I still want to like, learn from you and hang with this group a little bit. And so we did it. And so we sold it. And we got a third of the company like an ownership. And it was really cool to work with two people outside of health care who sure have a lot of experience in scaling companies and multimillion dollar companies. And so I consider it like an internship into like, how business is done, and how to like, really help this group and scale it in a more sustainable way than like, me just trying to like Google and figure out like, Okay, how do I do this next.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 27:45

My husband as a CPA is really good. Don’t underestimate accountants, I think they, you can use one instead of an attorney for most business questions, especially like reading contracts, and understanding like, if you’re getting your fair share accountants, oh, my gosh. Pro tip be married to an accountant, it as an entrepreneur, like it makes your life so much easier. And unless they give you the answer, you don’t want to hear! So I had him and then I did hire an attorney to help like, broker the deal and, and make sure everything looked good. But it’s I don’t know, I’m a very stress free person. And so it just felt right. And I was like, Yeah, let’s just, let’s just do it. So it was great, pretty simple and easy. I think it took like, two weeks from start to finish from like an offer to close.

Corrie Sanders 28:47

So did you have a certain price point in mind? Was that something that that team brought to you? Is that something that outside evaluators have brought to you? Where did the price point come into mind? And then how did you guys if you don’t mind me asking divvy up ownership of the company?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 29:01

So the attorney I was working with helped navigate the price point. And my husband did his own math too, and was like yep, that seems very fair. So I got a six figure payout for selling my company which felt incredibly good as well as I got to keep the cash from the company which I’d saved up a ton of into too and then we just turned we created a new entity and all three of us owned it equally and then moved to the company to that entity so as a separate entity, so I still own Arches Health as my company I just run it under a different name now.

Corrie Sanders 29:37

Got it, got it. And so what are your responsibilities with this new company? So I’m assuming that’s Wealthy White Coat is what this has evolved into. What day to day responsibilities do you have with Wealthy White Coat or when you sold the company that was a clean slate and you are now free to roam and do something completely different?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 29:54

Well, it was an evolution. So that was a year ago, we divvied it up 30,30,30 And then this January, February, I sold my share. So now they’re running it themselves. So over the course of the year, I was still like the one talking to the students and like keeping that relationship up. And they were the ones helping put in systems and to scale and to find like, partners and different income streams. Because all this time it’s, I’ve been through like one income stream like year long membership, that is it. And so they’re helping diversify different price points and ways to enter, and how to, you know, scale and bring more resources. So I had the fun part of like, being able to just keep doing what I was doing and like, have the conversations help people and keep giving them resources that they needed. So it was just fun.

Corrie Sanders 30:49

So still being the face of the company to some extent, managing the client relations. Okay, that’s interesting.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 30:54

Because those pharmacists are so great, I still like they’re just the best.

Corrie Sanders 31:01

You’re like, those are my babies. So this is my baby, and you have a special connection with each of them. So that’s easy to understand. And Jamie, any big lessons along the way? So we’ve covered a pretty extensive amount of ground in your professional career to this point, we’ve talked about your transition from retail to consulting, to creating something that can be bought and sold by other pharmacists, and then ultimately selling that business. Any big lessons learned along the way or big takeaways that come to top of mind when you’re thinking about an audience of pharmacy entrepreneurs, and I’m sure a lot of them want to get to this point of success. Any thoughts or any lessons that you think are worth sharing?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 31:40

Yes, two! One is just start, just do the thing. Put yourself out there, start solving a problem in the world and don’t overthink it, like, put your energy into action. I know our professional is so good at like overthinking and being perfect. And trying to like get all the education so that we’re the perfect person to help but like just helping and bringing your why you’re helping set you apart from anyone because everyone else is learning, learning, learning, stressing writing a plan. And if you’re out there doing you’re gonna run circles around people, so do, do, do. And secondly, I would say strongly I love digital businesses and online businesses, because there’s just not the risk there is with a cash intensive business like opening a pharmacy, you have to have the building, you have to have the products, you have to have the staff, you have to have the insurance, like the startup cost is half a million dollars, at least versus like a digital business, something you can do with just you and your laptop. You can start I think I funded myself $2,500 from my own checking account to start, and I’ve never had to like, put money back in because it’s all been profitable from there. There’s just no risk. And it’s a lot of reward. And even if it and don’t think of it in terms of like, will this win or lose? Will I succeed? Or is this a waste of my time think of it as like, I’m learning how to be relevant in today’s world, because it’s very different than anything in the past, especially with pharmacy and those who can adapt and like meet the needs of the world in a new way. You don’t have to have anyone’s permission, go do it. And it’s just really fun. And it’s not a risk. I feel like it’s riskier just to stay in your job with no other revenue options than to like, build something on the side a few hours a week and think in terms of years and decades rather than needing a quick buck tomorrow.

Corrie Sanders 33:46

I think that’s really valuable insight. And I completely agree with you, I think that the way that pharmacy is heading, it’s going to bode well for those that think outside the box. And that take on additional business ideas or opportunities that really leverage our clinical skill set. Because I just feel very strongly with the development of technology, that pharmacy is going to look very different in 10 years. So just starting and doing and cutting down on the Netflix and exchanging time. Outside I feel like the payoffs are really there. So Jamie, what do you see next for you? Did you when you sold this business? Did you have another idea in mind? Has that started coming to fruition? Or are you just really living in the moment and taking in the fact that you’ve built a successful business and been able to sell it at a price point that gives you some personal capital to do what you want what is next for you on the horizon?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 34:43

So I’m gonna have the best summer of my life this summer with my kids and work very minimally and just really enjoy what I’ve built. I’ve always I’m such a high achiever and like always wanting to build the next thing and go, go go but I’m intentionally stepping back and like I just want to hang out with my kids and enjoy my garden and be outside all day, because I love being outside. I’m going to do that for this season. But then Corrie, this fall, my youngest goes to first grade. So for the first time in 13 years, all of my children will be at school all day. And there’s not like this huge interruption with like, right now he’s in half day kindergarten. So like, my whole day is broken up, I’m gonna focus and I want to build something big and awesome that I can really like sink my teeth into and like, be in it for the long run for pharmacy. And I’m actually really interested in communities, I feel like communities are the next. Not the next big thing, but like the next really effective way people learn and grow and change. As someone who’s built online courses, I know online courses are awesome, but almost no one finishes them. And it’s very up to like the person who’s doing it their impetus to finish. And I’m so intrigued with communities and bringing people together in like a private place that helps them grow and support each other because we’re all humans, and we just need connections with each other. And I don’t know, I’m, I’m figuring that out. But it’s gonna be something with a community and it’s gonna be awesome, Corrie.

Corrie Sanders 36:18

Yeah, I think that that it’s very natural to want human connection and human support. And I you are placed in a perfect position as someone who’s built a pharmacy community and a very niche area of what is that community look like and what worked well, and what didn’t work well, and being able to build off that I think will be a very successful starting point for you. So I’m excited to see where that goes.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 36:38

Well ,even if it’s not, it’s just going to be fun. Like, that’s how we figure it out. Like, and I almost want an element like, I need to doubt it’s going to work to do it anyway. Because if we you can’t wait until something feels like okay, this is absolutely a slam dunk, I think you have to have an element of like, is this more than I can chew? Is this a little too ambitious to be the right size of project for me or for you for anyone that like, if it feels so easy, then it’s, it’s, it’s probably not right for you like a little bit of growth and stretching and like that scariness of like, Oh, could I really do this is, is good for us and part of the thrill of pushing ourself.

Corrie Sanders 37:23

Jamie, do you think that that’s a characteristic that you always had? Or do you think that wanting to lean into growth and personal development was something that you realized is a priority once you took the transition into being an entrepreneur, because I’m thinking of the average pharmacist who is going to hear that and be like, I do not want that. I want something that’s a slam dunk, I want something that I know is going to be something that I can count on every month. I feel like pharmacists are just very risk averse in general. So do you feel like that’s always been in your nature? Or do you think that now you’ve had a taste of it? That’s what you want to do. And that’s part of your higher purpose and bigger purpose?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 37:58

Well, I’m an oldest daughter, so I feel like it’s like baked into who I am. But also like seeing, really seeing what it’s like to earn money yourself, and how much you can earn and how consistent it can be that like, I just can’t go back to a job that’s out of my control. Again, like because I love not having risk. And I don’t feel like what I do is risky, it just takes time. So unless Netflix for me, it feels like the ultimate long term strategy that almost no one else is going to do because it takes work and a job is more comfortable. So like I I strongly believe I am like the least risky person. But I have a long timeline and willing to experiment because I know that like this is what it takes to succeed is like trying and being in public and doing in public. And most pharmacists don’t dare do that. It’s like the scariest thing to say, like, tell the world what you’re building. And I’m working with a couple of one on one clients right now. And that’s where some of them are at the point like okay, you’ve built your business, and I need you to create a social media post, just like on Facebook or Instagram, wherever you are, and just tell people what you’ve built. So they can celebrate with you. You’re not asking for like clients yet. You’re just saying like, Hey, I started a business like go female power. They won’t do it, Corrie! They’re like, oh my gosh, no, no, I’d rather just teach about diabetes than say I have a business because that feels salesy and like, I don’t want people to see me like, well, you have to be able to present yourself online to help people and it’s not salesy.

Corrie Sanders 38:21

Yes. And it’s in the world of digital digital business this is par for the course at this point.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 39:45

Yeah. It’s par for the course!

Corrie Sanders 39:48

And I had a friend actually summarize something for me at one point, which is why I started looking into the transition of being an entrepreneur and working for myself as well. He does very well in something that’s not healthcare related, but He’s rewarded for how hard he works. And he told me as a high performer and a high achiever, I will never be in a salaried position because it would take away a lot of my drive. And I feel like when I heard that it was a lightbulb in my head of, I’m working so hard, and I’m not going to go anywhere, and a percentage increase of my income in a substantial amount of time. And so for me, that was such a lightbulb moment. And I think that’s kind of summarized by what you said is that I now that I make money for myself, and I know what that tastes like. That’s how I want to keep my income for years to come. So I also one of my last questions, Jamie is what other streams of income have you leaned into at this point in time? So I know that you have teaching experience, it sounds like you still have some coaching going on? Are you keeping your hands busy with anything else, aside from the pharmacogenomics business and Wealthy White Coat?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 40:47

So I have a couple streams of income that are pretty fun that I’ve built, kind of for myself, that is awesome that we hear about recurring revenue. And I’m like, Oh, I did that a few years ago. So now I get to enjoy it. So a couple of ways I earn money. Alright, I do have some one on one people that I work with that, like, have found me through through LinkedIn, and like we’ve just jivved, so I’m helping them one-on-one. It’s way less intensive than like, a full program, but it’s really fun and energizing for me. And for them. I also teach for the University of Florida, they have me help, help review, update their curriculum and proctor some of their courses within the precision medicine program in their school of pharmacy, which is awesome, it’s so fun. And my old boss, who he used to work at Walgreens. Now he works at the Student Health Center at the local college here, he asked if I would come Thursday afternoons from like two to 6pm to help fill in while he goes to choir practice. And I was like, You know what, I actually let my license lapse. So let’s see what it’s like to be a pharmacist and like, get a steady paycheck again. So I’ve actually started doing that again, just like for the fun of it. And it’s been really cool Corrie to have like W2 income and my own income all mixed together. That because there really is something to say about a job and like that you can clock in and clock out and earn a good salary. pharmacists have a good salary. And for me, I kind of ebb and flow with employment that I like like it, but then I can earn so much more myself. But then just that ease of like clocking in and out. So it’s been kind of fun to go back and forth. Because first I swore off pharmacy like I’ve done and now like, you know what, this is actually pretty fun in this environment with like these cute college students who just need birth control, Adderall, and antibiotics like, I could do this. So those are the main streams I have. I also do some advising and speaking but that’s anyway.

Corrie Sanders 42:44

But the underlying thing is that one, you can continue to pivot as a pharmacy entrepreneur. So you let your license lapse, who cares, you can go back and get it. And it’s not a huge deal. If you want to go back to something that you’ve known in the past with the W2 job, but to when you describe all these things, you’re saying it’s so fun, every single job you’ve taken on is so fun. And I think that it gets lost in this traditional education wheel where we go from undergrad to pharmacy school, to residency to certificates to additional training all these things you just continue on in this wheel. And it’s so much of it is performance based that you lose touch with why we really went into pharmacy, at least that’s how I feel is I got to a certain point where I just looked back and I was like, wow, I’ve done everything right. But it still feels wrong. And that is scary to me. And so I love that you’re at a point now where every job you’re describing, say it’s energizing for me, it’s fun, and that’s what ultimately keeps you happy and working overtime is that it’s this cliche sentiment where if you’re having fun, you never work a day in your life, totally get it. But that’s the freedom that you’ve given yourself is that work should be fun, it should be an energizing part of your life, not something that drains you for 40 hours a week. So I love hearing that you’re at that at that point. And I’ve got one more question and then I’ll ask where people can find you if they want to get in touch with you. But my last question is, what would you say to an aspiring pharmacy entrepreneur? So we shared those two lessons earlier of, you know, just starting and keeping moving. But if you’re sitting at the point of contemplating an idea within pharmacy practice and looking at something that’s in a non traditional setting, anything specific that you would share with that pharmacist?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 44:25

I would say just get vocal and get online because you will stand out especially if you’re doing anything within any realm of health care, health care people are silent stalkers and scrollers. So if you have a voice and are consistent, you will stand out and you people will attract opportunities to you. And so the table start flipping instead of you like reaching out like Will anyone work with me? Will anyone want me? If you consistently stick to a topic and teach on it and just own it, people start coming out of the woodwork for you. And it’s just the best feeling that you don’t have to muscle your way into your own business, you find that like, just talk about something, help someone. And more opportunities come to you that like, oh, wow, I can work for this person or this person wants to hire me or like, it all comes together if you’re willing to like stand up and stand out, because few people are willing to do it. And so really like, that’s what magnetizes people to you, and get you out of this weird rat race of like applying to hundreds of jobs and getting more letters after your name, to feel like you’re the best candidate, don’t play that game. It’s an antiquated game, and you’re gonna get a position that you don’t want. And so even within entrepreneurship, like being willing to stand out, because you gotta stand out to be an entrepreneurship, and so just practice talking online every day, it might scare you to death, but really like that life skill, if you can get the hang of it. Like the right people will find you the world is your oyster. And just think of it as a skill and not as a personality trait that you either can or can’t do, because everything is learnable.

Corrie Sanders 46:01

I love that. Well, Jamie, this has been so great. I feel like we’ve covered a lot of ground. And you’ve done so much in the past decade that I think we broke it down into chunks that will be easily absorbed by our listeners. And this is coated with lots of different lessons. So thank you for being so vulnerable and transparent. You’ve been so gracious with your time and you do that online so well. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing? And about what you’ve done in the past or reach out to you independently? What’s the easiest way for our listeners to get in contact with you?

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 46:29

Oh, just on LinkedIn. That’s like, what social media I use. I love LinkedIn. You should be on LinkedIn. If you’re not, create an account. It’s the best thing you can do for your career. Find me there Jamie Wilkey LinkedIn, send me a DM I’ll talk to you. It’ll be fun.

Corrie Sanders 46:45

That sounds great. Thank you again, Jamie Wilkie for being here. Congratulations on all your recent success. And we’re excited to see where you go in the next couple of years and even long term seeing where you end up.

Dr. Jamie Wilkey 46:57

You too, Corrie! Thanks!

Tim Ulbrich 47:00

[DISCLAIMER] As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archive newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates publish such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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YFP 358: Top 6 Financial Moves to Make as a Mid-Career Pharmacist

Posted on by YFP Media

YFP Co-Founder and Director of Financial Planning Tim Baker discusses six financial moves for mid-career pharmacists, including re-evaluating the vision for the financial plan.

Episode Summary

Tim Ulbrich is joined by YFP Co-Founder and Director of Financial Planning at YFP, Tim Baker to discuss various financial planning strategies for mid-career pharmacists, including resetting the vision for the financial plan, prioritizing retirement planning and emergency funds, and reevaluating, reviewing and updating insurance policies.

Regularly reviewing and adjusting these funds to account for the various life changes ensures that policies align with current financial goals and circumstances. Tim and Tim also address the importance of having those uncomfortable conversations, such as end-of-life care and inheritance to avoid potential legal and financial issues in the future.

About Today’s Guest

Tim Baker is the Co-Founder and Director of Financial Planning at Your Financial Pharmacist. Founded in 2015, YFP is a fee-only financial planning firm and connects with the YFP community of 12,000+ pharmacy professionals via the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast podcast, blog, website resources and speaking engagements.

Tim attended the United States Military Academy majoring in International Relations and branching Armor. After his military career, he worked as a logistician with a major retailer and a construction company. After much deliberation, Tim decided to make a pivot in his career and joined a small independent financial planning firm in 2012. In 2016, he launched his own financial planning firm Script Financial and in 2019 merged with Your Financial Pharmacist. Tim now lives in Columbus, Ohio with his wife (Shay), three kids (Olivia, Liam and Zoe), and dog (Benji).

Key Points from the Episode

Financial moves for mid-career pharmacists, including resetting financial goals. [0:00]
Financial planning, goal setting, and prioritizing life ambitions. [3:54]
Emergency funds and savings goals, including rechecking amounts and locations. [9:17]
Emergency funds and retirement planning for mid-career pharmacists. [14:34]
Retirement planning and nest egg calculation. [16:46]
Social Security benefits and retirement planning for pharmacists. [22:43]
Updating estate plans for mid-career individuals. [29:13]
Financial planning for aging parents. [33:39]
Financial planning for mid-career pharmacists, including insurance checkups and estate planning. [37:48]
Insurance planning for pharmacists, including long-term care and property casualty assessments. [41:17]

Episode Highlights

“And I think the other thing is that things change. I think checking up on your financial plan is really, really important.” -Tim Baker [5:08]

“I think it’s really important to kind of recast the vision, recast the organization of your financial plan and go from there.” – Tim Baker [5:52]

“I think one of the things that I would challenge people who are mid-career, from a goal setting perspective is, are you doing the things that make you whole or that you’re passionate about?” – Tim Baker [6:28]

“So, you know, I think being critical and actually like slowing down and saying, is this what I want to do. And then using the resources, the time that you have, the dollars that you have, to kind of right that ship, and because again, we’re here for a very finite amount of time. And it goes by quickly, and it sounds very cliche, but it’s true.” – Tim Baker [8:08]

“I typically say that the estate plan is really important, really, for anybody, But particularly for people that have a spouse, a house, or mouths to feed. So if you have those things, and you don’t have documents in place, I think that that’s probably the biggest thing that we need to look at.” – Tim Baker [32:58]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week, Tim Baker joins us back on the mic to talk through six financial moves to make as a mid career pharmacist, we discussed the importance of resetting the vision for the financial plan, how to determine whether or not you’re on track for retirement, gaps to look for in your estate planning and insurance coverage, and much more. For more information and details on each one of these areas, go to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/midcareer. That’s one word again yourfinancialpharmacist.com/midcareer.

Tim Ulbrich 00:37

Before we jump into this week’s episode, I have a hard truth for you to hear. Making a six figure income is not a financial plan. Yes, you’ve worked hard to get where you are today. Yes, you’re earning a good income. But have you ever wondered, am I on track to retire? How do I prioritize and fund all of these competing financial goals that I have? How do I plan financially for big upcoming life events and changes such as moving, having a child, changing jobs, getting married or retiring? Or perhaps why am I not as far along financially at this point in my career as I thought I would be? The answer may be that your six figure income is not a financial plan. As a pharmacist, you have an incredible tool in your toolbox: your salary. But without a vision and a plan that good income will only go so far. That’s in part why we started Your Financial Pharmacist. At YFP, we support pharmacists at every stage of their careers to take control of their finances, reach their financial goals, and build wealth through comprehensive fee-only financial planning and tax planning. Our team of certified financial planners and our CPA works with pharmacists all across the country to help our clients set their future selves up for success while living their rich lives today. If you’re ready to learn more about how Your Financial Pharmacist can support you on your financial journey, visit your financialpharmacist.com/learn. Again, that’s your financial pharmacists.com/learn. Alright, let’s jump into today’s show.

Tim Ulbrich 02:05

Tim Baker, good to have you back on the show.

Tim Baker 02:07

Good to be back. Tim. How’s it going?

Tim Ulbrich 02:09

Good. It’s been a while official congrats on the baby. I know you’re off for a little while. But we’re glad to have you back on the mic.

Tim Baker 02:17

Yeah, thanks for thanks for hosting, it’s trying to get back in the swing of things with baby here. Sleep’s at a premium. So, it’s all good.

Tim Ulbrich 02:28

Well, this week, we’re talking about moves that mid-career pharmacists should be making things that they should be thinking about. And really whether someone is early in their journey, you know, these are things to be thinking ahead of or those that are actually in this season. Hopefully, this is more of a checklist type of episode where you can go through different parts of the financial plan, or perhaps tune up or look back at some of these items. Tim, it dawned on me though, as we’re preparing for this episode of like, that’s us mid-career, you know, it’s really that that phase where you start to feel like, Hey, we’ve kind of checked off some of those basic foundational items. But there’s this whole other set of issues and things that we need to be thinking about going into the future. So for better or for worse, here we are in the middle of our career, as well. And we’re excited to talk through these six moves that mid-career pharmacists should be making in each one of these we have covered at length, if not once, maybe twice, or three times on the episode before. So we’ll make sure to mention that when we get to these individual items and link to those things in the show notes as well. Tim, I think it makes sense that we start number one, really with the goals. You know, this is an opportunity, I think to reset the vision for the financial plan, there often is a lot of transition that can be happening at this phase, you know, this might be the time where people have kids are getting a little bit older, maybe beginning to think about them moving out of the house, we obviously have to be thinking about taking care of ourselves. Maybe we have elderly parents that we’re trying to prioritize as well. So just a lot of transition, I think an opportunity to take a step back and really look at the vision and the goals for the financial plan and how those have changed over time.

Tim Baker 04:05

Yeah, I would package these, I would actually package this together with like, what is the balance sheet look like? And then what is the vision going forward? So you know, we kind of look at this, you know, when we work with clients as a get organized and kind of a goal setting, you know, as a one two punch, and this is typically where, Tim, when a pharmacist asked me a question of Hey, should I do X or Y? I say it depends. A lot of it depends on what is what is the financial picture look like for you? And then what does a wealthy life look like for you both today and in the future. And for everyone that’s going to be different. So, that to me is where that answer comes from. So yeah, like I think in prepping for this episode, Tim, I kind of learned you know, two things or realized two things that I think is really important to say out loud. One is just like a lot of stuff when I was looking at my you know, I was looking at my insurance stuff in my in my nest egg calculation, some of the things that we’ll talk about in this episode. It’s just a lot of moving pieces. And it’s a, and it’s changed a lot over the years. So that’s, that’s the first thing. And I think the other thing is, like, you know, this thing, things change, I think having, you know, checking up on this is really, really important. So, when we look at, like, the, when we look at the balance sheet, again, if you haven’t looked at your balance sheet in a long time, I think it’s really important, it’s not necessarily necessarily something that we feel in our day to day, yeah. But if you, you know, if you if you put your head down, and you’re working, and you’re raising a family or doing whatever you’re doing, and, you know, two or three years later go by, you can actually see the progress that, you know, has been made, right, so you can see, you know, how your assets, you know, been built up, how have you How have your liabilities been paid down? Or not, you know, do you have a different set of, you know, versus if it’s was it student loans in the past the past and now its a HELOC, or something like that. So I think it’s really important to kind of recast the vision recast the, you know, the organization of your financial plan and go from going from there. From the vision perspective, it’s, it’s laughable when you think about, you know, like, when I, you know, had these conversations with myself and my wife, you know, even three or four years ago, and then what that looks like today, like, like, and you don’t sense that, but like, when you when you actually look back, and you kind of memorialize, hey, in 2019 pre-pandemic, this is kind of our viewpoint, this is what we wanted to do. And then we look at that today, it’s vastly different. So I think, like, you know, one of the things that, that I would, you know, challenge people that are mid career, you know, from a goal setting perspective is, are you doing the things that, like, make you whole, or that you’re passionate about? You know, like, I was joking around with my team over the weekend that I kind of felt like an Uber driver, because I was driving to soccer practice and swim practice, soccer practice again, and swim practice again. Which is great, like, I love that I love you know, you know, you know, seeing my kids, you know, do well on their sports and their activities. But, you know, though conversation that I had with my wife over the weekend was like, are like, Are we are we good? Are we on like the track that we want to be on and kind of checking in with and sometimes that’s a check in with yourself, some that’s a check in with a spouse, sometimes it’s a check in with like, a close advisor, like a financial planner. And I think it’s really important to do that, because again, you can put your head down, and you know, live, you know, be living your life, but then, you know, you’re doing that vicariously through your kids or, or whatever, and not actually take the time to do the things that you’re passionate about. And sometimes, you know, again, your own goals. And ambitions are kind of taking a backseat to your kids, which is a it’s a natural thing. But at the end of the day, like there typically is enough to go around, like we can carve out time, we can carve out resources to do the things that you want to do whatever that is. So I think it’s really important, you know, as you are mid-career, and I think this is where, you know, people like to talk about, like a midlife crisis, because they kind of get caught in the rat race, and they’re like, this is not really the life that I want to live. So, you know, I think it’s that, you know, that self, you know, being being critical and actually like slowing down and saying, is this what I want to do. And then using the resources, you know, the time that you have, the dollars that you have, to kind of right that ship, and because, again, we’re here for a very finite amount of time. And it goes by quick, and it sounds very cliche, but it’s, it’s true. And I think you can I always talk about this, like, you know, that whole that sense of being on autopilot. I’ve worked at jobs where, you know, like, my commute to the office in the morning was in darkness, I would you know, I would drive there 30 minutes, I wouldn’t remember that drive, and then you back was in darkness, I would get in my car, and 30 minutes would go by and I’m home. And I don’t remember any of that. And that’s, that’s like an analogy for life is that if you’re not actually slowing down and think about is this what I want to do that’s important. So that’s just my life planning hat. You know, are we are we putting the first things first are we doing, you know, the things that we want to do and making sure that we’re, we have a plan and we’re being intentional for that.

Tim Ulbrich 09:16

I love the example you gave of you know how for you and Shay, your family, right short period of time, the goals can look very different, and why it’s so important to be looking at these regularly and talking about them together to have a third party, you know, kind of help, whether that’d be a plan or someone else. I was even thinking as you shared that, you know, for Jess and I, when you did the planning with the two of us how helpful it was when we would get together to flash up the goals to say, hey, yeah, a year, a year ago, you guys said this is important. Like, is it still important? If so, like, what what are we doing? What are we doing to kind of move this forward? And ultimately, like, where are the funds, right? If it requires funds to do that, and that’s so important. You know, you and I had a very similar season of life where, you know, to the point you gave of the weekend and being the Uber driver We’re like, the days and the months are flying by to really have that mechanism to stop, pause, slow down and remind ourselves of like, are we running the path? Are we running the race that we want to be running? And we’re not gonna get it right all the time, right balance in every season of life, but to have some built in mechanism to not just set those goals, but also to refresh and to look at those periodically.

Tim Baker 10:23

Yeah, absolutely.

Tim Ulbrich 10:24

All right, number two on our list is savings. And we’re gonna talk about a few different areas. Here. We’ll talk briefly about the emergency fund, and an opportunity to recheck where we’re at with that, we’ll briefly talk about retirement. Again, we’ve talked about all these at length, we’ll reference other episodes, and then we’ll touch on some kids college stuff as well. Tim, let’s start with the emergency fund and a recheck. I just talked on Episode 357, last week about five questions that we need to be asking ourselves related to the emergency fund. So make sure you go back and check out that episode. But I think this is one of those areas that where we set the emergency fund maybe early on in our career, and then we don’t think about, wow, a lot has changed, we really got to relook at is the amount that we have there sufficient? And how does this fit in with the rest of the plan?

Tim Baker 11:09

It’s one of those things where yeah, it’s kind of a forgotten, forgotten thing. And, you know, you know, what we really want to do is check in and make sure that you know, what’s in there is appropriate, and, you know, are there things that we can do to, you know, to, to improve it. So, you know, for for a emergency fund, what we’re looking for is three to six months of non discretionary monthly expenses. So these are expenses that are gonna go out the door, regardless of if we work or not. So things like, you know, a mortgage and insurance premiums and utilities and a food bill. So, unfortunately, we tend to get to that number, we have to actually look at spending data and understand like, what that looks like, and then, you know, we kind of look at, you know, what is what is discretionary? What are things that are non discretionary, and we add up all the non discretionary if we have, you know, two incomes, we multiply that by three, if we have one income, we multiply that by six for six months, and then and then that’s our number. For a lot of our clients. You know, it typically can be I think, in a, I would say, anywhere between 15 and $50,000 is what is what the number is, um, so I think like, you know, and this is something that that Shay, I looked at recently, and I think, for us, because of three kids and you know, daycare and all that kind of stuff, it’s, it’s crept up, and I’ve kind of tried to, you know, the interest that I that I accumulate in my high yield, or I do, I do a combination of a high yield savings account. And then like, a laddered CD that I do every quarter, like a year CD for every quarter. So I have a q1, q2, q3, q4 that I just renew, and I kind of let those ride and I’m actually adding more money, both to the high yield, and the, and the CDs as we go here. But I, the only reason I knew to do that was to actually look at the spending, and it’s kind of crept up, you know, just because of family of, you know, probably the last time I did it, we were a family of three, now we’re a family of five. So I think that’s important to do. And again, like, there are so many people that I talked to that they’re like, Okay, this brokerage account, this, this taxable investment account, that is my emergency fund, that is not an emergency fund, it’s, it’s, you know, if you’re investing in it, and you can see volatility, that’s not what we’re trying to do. So I think having you know, the right amount, and then the location is going to be really important. And to get the right amounts, typically, looking at the budget where you’re at today, and again, like I don’t look at the kids swim or, or soccer or other activities as a discretionary as a, that’s, that’s a discretionary thing. So if times get tough, we, you know, try to try to cut that. So I think even, you know, examining what is, you know, what should be in there and what shouldn’t, is important, but, you know, to me, it’s, it’s a little bit of nails on chalkboard, right Tim, because I don’t want to keep cash, I want to get that into the market and get work. And so I need enough to get us through a tough spot. But then also know that, you know, for me, I want to get money into mortgage and a lot of people typically, you know, later in mid career and beyond, they’ll they’ll start because they have an asset like the house, they’ll even use something like a HELOC as like an even deeper reserve. Yeah. So to have access to a HELOC, or something like that is going to be important that I’ve seen people use as a mechanism to, you know, to safely and I wouldn’t say cheaply because of where rates are, but somewhat cheaply access cash if needed, and not necessarily tie up a ton of money in a checking error, high yield savings account, I should say.

Tim Ulbrich 14:33

I like the hack that you mentioned. And yes, I do the same thing where you know, any any earnings on a high yield savings, we just kind of dumped back in the emergency letter, I let it ride right. And the idea being that’s going to help kind of keep pace at some level with inflation, maybe not fully, but to your point, it doesn’t cover those big jumps, right. So like now we’re a family of five instead of a family of three or, you know, we bought an investment property and we’ve got to be thinking about that or we moved homes and you know, mortgage payments went up and so those kind of big moves, where all of a sudden, you know, that emergency fund might go from that 15 to that 30, 35. Are we looking at that periodically.

Tim Baker 15:09

And for you, Tim is probably like your food bill, right? Oh, pre preteens? Like, like, that’s gonna that’s that’s like No, that’s no joke, you know like when you, even Olivia. Olivia is going to be 10 this year and she’s a swimmer. I mean, she eats I feel like as much as I do. And you know, when you when you think about that, that’s, that’s gonna move down quite a bit. So you know, it’s it definitely adds up. And at the end of the day, the emergency fund is there for that rainy day when, when when you need it and just making sure that’s properly funded is going to be important to kind of give you that peace of mind.

Tim Ulbrich 15:42

The second part of savings Tim, I want to touch on as we work through these six different moves for mid-career pharmacists is, you know, I think this is a natural time where we ask ourselves, Am I on track with retirement? Right? And, and this is a season where when we talk with pharmacists mid-career, you know, the visual I have is you’re getting hit in every direction, right? You maybe kids expenses, kids college has grown, we’ll talk about that a little bit. You’ve got this pressure facing you on retirement, you might be caring for elderly parents, you know, perhaps there’s debt still hanging around, we’re working through student loans or other things. There’s, there’s all these different pressures and headwinds, and naturally, that retirement piece made maybe wasn’t a top priority for a while. And all of a sudden, we get to this point where previously we couldn’t visualize retirement now we can start to and it’s like, Am I on track? And I know, we covered this in Episode 272. How much is enough? We’ll link to that in the show notes. So people can dig deeper, but just at a high level, you know, some some tips or some thoughts for folks that are asking this question of, Hey, am I on track? How much is enough? When it comes to retirement?

Tim Baker 16:45

This is such a, this is such a hard one. Because like, I’ll ask like prospective clients, like, Hey, do you feel like you’re on track to meet like your goal for retirement? And if you’re talking to someone in their 30s 40s 50s? I would say even in your 50s, it can be somewhat nebulous anytime it’s like a decade or more out. And typically, that the answer I get is like, you know, Tim, I really have no idea. Which is, I think, problematic, especially if we’re trying to, like, you know, build out a plan. So that’s obviously something that we can fix. But also, it’s kind of that default of like, well, like the 401k, you know, company or the 401k that I have, they have a calculator that says I’m on track. And I’m like, I just don’t know how they calculate that. And I almost feel like, all the compliance things that, Tim, that we have. So it’s almost like irresponsible, yeah, to, again, they’re looking at it very much from it, but people don’t necessarily know that, you know, it’s very much a vacuum. I think that like, the problem with like, Am I on track for retirement is that there’s so many variables that go into it, there’s so much time that goes into it, you know, and I always talked about this, like, when we, when I first started working as a financial planner, I remember working with my previous firm, and it’s like, you know, we would do financial planning by hand, and we would do a time value money calculation. And we would say, Hey, Tim, hey client, you know, your, your, your, what you need for retirement is $3.1 million. And we’d be like this exact number. And then we’ll kind of go on to like, the next thing, I’ll make sure you’re doing this. And it’s like, it just never connected. It was almost like this disassociated moving, because you’d like to look at like what the client had, which might be three or $400,000. And you’re like, I need to, like 10x this in 20 years, or 15 years. And there’s so many people that come back to me that when they start and then they’re like four or five years, they’re like, like, damn, Tim, like, actually, my assets I’ve actually grown like, I almost didn’t believe you. And it’s still hard to even to see that, you know, the progress to get to that, that millionaire level. But I think it’s really important. And so like, I took that, as a financial planner, I would look at the clients, like their eyes would kind of like gloss over because they’re like, that doesn’t mean anything to me. And I can’t we build up this nest egg calculator that basically goes through. And I did it recently for Shay and I, you know, what’s your current age? What’s your target? You know, so how many more years do you have left in the workforce? How long do you expect to live? Which is again, that’s one of the hardest, you know, that’s one of the risks in retirement is like longevity risk, like, are you gonna live really long or not? So again, that’s a little bit of a crapshoot. So we kind of make make some assumptions there. Social Security kind of has an idea of when they think that you’re gonna pass away, what your current retirement savings is with kind of think of it as your present value and your time value money. And then what your current calculate your current income is and then what that kind of projects into what you need for retirement. So we make some assumptions on how is your current assets actually invested? So for a lot of people that I see at least it’s in my opinion, too conservative, especially mid you know, if you follow the rules of thumb of, hey, if you’re, you know, if you’re 40 years old, you take 110 minus 40, your equity, equity amount should be 70%. And then the other 30 should be in bonds, I think that is wrong. But then we do some, you know, asset assumptions when you’re actually in retirement, so might be more conservative. And that kind of gets down to the total need. And then you have to factor in things like social security. So I pulled my Social Security, I think we’ll talk about that in a second. And then like, what does that mean, in terms of what do I need to actually save today? So it’s, it’s the idea here is to take this big number, whether it’s 3.1, 3.6, 2 million, 4 million, and actually break it down to a number that I can digest. So like, if you say, if I’m, if I’m the client, and I say, hey, you know, if I’m talking to a client, I’m like, Hey, you’re putting in 10%, for you to actually get on track to retire by 65. To live to 95, whatever that is, you need to go from 10% to 15%. Like, I can track to that. And also, you know, so that actually is a tangible thing, that’s a, that’s a digestible thing that I can do versus just saying, we need $3.1 and we kind of just are like, it’s a hope and a prayer, right. So it’s not, it’s not a perfect system. Because like, when I look at my own nest egg calculation, you know, I’m maxing out my 401. K. And let’s assume that I’m going to be doing that for the next 29 years, if I retire at 70, which, that’s a, I don’t know, I don’t know if that’s going to be the case. I’m hoping that’s the case. But so there’s, there’s, there’s some assumptions that we have to make to make, to make it kind of come to life. And I think the next level of this, Tim, was kind of going through some simulations. So if I were to, you know, if I were to, you know, take part of my portfolio and purchase x, or if I were to, you know, go and go down to part time, or, you know, do something else, you could actually run scenarios, if I, if I buy my Mountain House 10 years earlier, there’s some Monte Carlo analysis that will actually affect, you know, show you how it affects your success rate with your with your retirement. And I think that’s kind of the next level stuff. But for a lot of people, it’s where am I at? What are the things that I’m that I’m doing today? How can I tweak those things to get a better outcome, and that could be contribution rate, that could be my allocation, that can be a variety of things. So I think that’s important to kind of break down and really see, you know, because the more the longer that we wait to kind of effect change here, especially if it’s negative, the steeper that gets, right. So when you’re, when you’re early in your career, you know, a tweak here there can really have monumental changes, the closer you get to that retirement, just the the steeper that climb is and the harder it is to kind of meet goals. And that’s where you have to start, then potentially taking a haircut on lifestyle and retirement, or you know, the amount of time that you have to work etc.

Tim Ulbrich 22:43

What I love about the nest egg exercise is, you know, going through it for Jess and I, again, just a reminder, with all these things, we’re told it’s not a one and done, right. So if you do a nest egg when you’re, you know, 45, there’s assumptions, we’re building into all of these types of calculations, both in terms of the mathematical assumptions, but also what you want. And you know, you mentioned the different scenarios, and that can change and probably will change over time. So revisiting this periodically is so important, but it really moves I often hear people talking about retirement as like a hope, wish or dream, meaning like, I hope I can retire by 58, or 67, or whatever, or, you know, I would love if I could potentially work part time at some point in the future. And it’s like, hey, yes, those assumptions can change, many of them will change over time. But we can put a number to these into your point, let’s get it down to what do we need to be doing on a monthly basis, because these numbers do seem scary. And you can see, kind of the peace of mind that comes when you walk through these calculations with people when you start with those big numbers, three, four or 5 million. And then you get down to that monthly even if we don’t love the monthly number, when we factor in employer matches, other things, savings we already have. We’ll talk about social security here in a moment. It’s like, oh, okay, like, we can work with that, because we can put our arms around it and start to figure out, can we build that into the rest of the planet, a monthly basis. So, so important, especially for those who are mid-career listening. If you’ve done this before, you know, revisit this, you know, we’d love to have opportunity to work with you on the financial planning side, if you haven’t done it before need to revisit this as well. But something we definitely need to be updating. And looking at periodically. Let’s move to number three, which is really looking at our Social Security benefits and the projected benefits, which I think fits so well into the how much is enough calculation. And, you know, this is an opportunity to really look at our [email protected] to look at our statement, our projected benefits. I think a lot of people probably aren’t necessarily familiar with these tools that are out there. And to begin to figure out and build some assumptions of, hey, if I have social security benefits, what might those be? And then certainly we can project down if people are worried about the future of the benefit. I’m sure you’ll talk about that as well. But thoughts here on on kind of revisiting or looking at the social security piece?

Tim Baker 24:57

So if you go to ssa.gov Like if you have haven’t done this, I would encourage you, especially if you’re mid-career just to kind of see what your social security statement looks like. So to me, that’s really important to kind of get a sense of, and again, like, I think a lot of people, when they, when they think about security, it’s kind of an eyeroll of like, uh, that won’t be there, when I’m when I’m ready to retire, or it’s going to be greatly diminished. You know, I would, what I believe is that, you know, Social Security is one of those things where so many people rely on it to actually survive in, you know, it’s kind of a hand, um, you know, unfortunately, we’re kind of like a hand to mouth in terms of like, a lot of people don’t do a great job of saving themselves, especially, you know, no offense to Baby Boomers, where there was pensions and things like that pensions, and Social Security could go a long way, in terms of retirement, that day is done, you know, so when we moved away from pensions, and more to 401k, the onus has really shifted from the employer to the employee, to make sure that we’re doing what we need to do. And again, social security still there. But there’s lots of, you know, press about, you know, will be viable, and, you know, will it go bankrupt? My sense is that, you know, it will be there, Tim, when we retire it at 70. But it’s kind of one of those things where it’s, it’s unknown what that benefit would be, and again, maybe when we retire, you know, it’s not 70, it’s 75, or something like that, because of a variety of reasons. But the I think the big thing here is to pull your statement. And then when I look at mine, it actually shows me, you know, what my personalized monthly retirement benefits would be, if I started from age 62. So right now, my my benefits $2,076 or if I wait until age 70 and actually get the, you know, credits $3,777. The big thing with Social Security that doesn’t get enough play is that it’s inflation protected. So when we had that big jump into inflation the year before last, yeah, everyone’s payment went up, I think 8.9% or whatever it was your over a year, that’s huge. Because if you’re thinking about, you know, building a retirement paycheck, most of the things that you have, most of the income streams are not inflation protected. So every time, you know, we go through bouts of inflation, you’re you know, you know, the checks, the checks that you have running it coming in, are not going to account for the fact that, you know, your your grocery bill went from 100 bucks per month to $140, just because of where that’s at. So Social Security, you know, plays a part in that. So I think the big thing here is to try to check, you know, when you pull your statement, you can actually see your work year, and what your earnings tax for security were from, you know, I’m looking back from, like, 1991 to present day. So I think to make sure that that’s accurate, that’s, that’s going to be a big thing. And again, like, I think the sooner that you can kind of look at this and kind of get a sense of where you’re at. And then and then look at the you know, look at the the the retirement calculator that’s there, you know, if you if you retire early, versus if your full retirement age, you know, for us, it’s going to be 67. Or if you delay it out to age 70, which to me, I think a lot of people should really look at doing and if you have a plan, you know, before the kind of the knee jerk was like, get the money when you can get it, but that’s a that’s a mistake. And a lot of people are understanding now that it is a mistake. So doing a proper analysis. Again, it’s kind of a microcosm of your of your financial plan is, you know, inventory. So get organized in terms of what does the statement look like? What are the goals in retirement, and then how to properly deploy this, this inflation protected income stream, I think is going to be a big part. Now, for pharmacists, you know, your it might be 25%, 20% of your retirement paycheck, whereas, you know, the typical American it’s, it’s north of 50%. So but I think making sure that we’re positioning ourselves from, you know, to ensure that the income is correct. And then the basically the way that we collect the benefit is going to be in line with your overall retirement picture and financial plan.

Tim Ulbrich 29:13

And I think once we have that number, and again, we can adjust up or down, as you mentioned before as we’re running assumptions, but we can then build that into the nest egg calculation as well and see how that impacts where we’re at on a on a need for a monthly savings. Number four, Tim, on our list of six mid-career pharmacist moves to be considering would be the estate plan. We’ve talked about the estate plan in detail on the on the podcast episode 310. dusting off the estate plan. We’ll link to that in the show notes. But this time well, you and I were just talking about this last week. You know with your new baby in the house right there’s an opportunity to update documents we haven’t yet done our updates with with our youngest who soon to be five, so we’ve got to make sure his name is present, although he’s covered in language, but his actual name isn’t present in the documents. So I think again, and talk to us through why there’s an opportunity mid-career to really be updating these documents or perhaps for some even even establishing these for the first time.

Tim Baker 30:10

It’s probably, you know, I can say this being a ginger, but it’s probably the redheaded stepchild of like the financial plan. It’s, it’s ignored. And unless you’re military, a lot of the clients that are coming through the door really don’t have an estate plan in place. And one of the things that we implemented to kind of really combat this and really supercharge our ability to support clients is we have a an estate planning solution now that we, when we work with clients, if you don’t have a will, a living will, and well trust, if that’s needed, we can actually get those documents in place for whatever state that you live in country, which I think is awesome. So you know, it’s one thing to kind of, you know, say, Hey, Tim, this is what you need something to actually like, walk side by side with you and get the documents in place to make sure you’re covered. So I look at this really from a from from to, you know, to? Well, I would say it’s one big perspective, just change, right. So like, you know, if you think about, you know, maybe when you were, you know, early career to where you’re at now, for some people like could be different relationships, like there’s horror stories about people that are leaving money to like an ex. So I think it’s really important to kind of do a beneficiary check to make sure that the money is going to the right people, you know, Shay is going to be my primary beneficiary for like, a lot of the things that I have. But then right now, it’s like, Liam, my, my, my, or Olivia, my daughter, and Liam my son who are the contingent beneficiary, so if something were to happen to both, it likely would go to the kids, so like Zoe, or our newest baby has to kind of be in on that. Or it could be to like a trust, you know, a trust that is for the benefit of the kids, which is probably the better way to go with minor children. So to me, it’s more of again, looking at the the relationships, whether they’re, you know, out with the old in with the new, or, you know, brand new in terms of kids to make sure that the documents that you had in place clearly reflect your wishes today could even be things about, you know, bequesting, or, yeah, hey, I want to leave, you know, money to my alma mater, or to my cousin Fred, or things like that, that that’s a really reflects the things that you want to do. But also, you know, to, to ensure that from a protection perspective, you know, if you have dependents, they’re there, they’re taken care of, in a sense that, you know, if you were gone, or you can speak for yourself, the documents are that are in place, do that justice. So, for a lot of people mid career, it is adjusting what they have, or it could be it says that, that thing that’s been neglected that you’re like, I’m gonna get to it, I’m gonna get to, I’m gonna get to it, and you have it. You know, what, when I’m talking when I’m talking to prospective clients, and I bring up the fact that we can do this, that like, perks them up, because I know, it’s important. They know, it’s like, uh, I gotta find an attorney, or I gotta find some sort of solution. We got that covered. And to me that alone, I think, especially if you’re, you’re, if you’re a family, or if you you know, I typically say that the estate plan is really important, really, for anybody, particularly, particularly for people that have a spouse, a house, or mouths to feed, right. So if you have those things, and you don’t have documents in place, I think that that’s probably the biggest thing that we need to look at. You know, it’s important to get, you know, a plan for debt, it’s important to get your your nest egg and a plan for your assets and retirement planning. But this is really going to be important to shore up and make sure you’re good to go in the event that something were to happen to you. And again, it’s one of those things like, oh, that won’t happen to me, it will happen to somebody else. And then eventually, you’re going to be that that’s someone else. So not to be morbid, but you know, I think it’s important to cross those t’s and dot the i’s with regard to the state plan.

Tim Ulbrich 33:39

I mean, the reality is just like we’ll talk about in the final item number six on the insurance side, like it’s not fun to think about, right? So it’s easy, but been there myself, it’s easy to kind of drag your feet and let this be the call to action to either update, take a fresh look at those or get those documents created. Number five on our list of six mid-career pharmacists moves to make tip is probably one that a lot of people maybe aren’t thinking about, again, not necessary, the most comfortable thing to be doing would be some of the financial conversations with aging parents, you know, I think it’s common that we see mid-career pharmacists that are entering into a new stage of caring for elderly parents sometimes that, you know, could be a time investment that they need to factor in, that could be a financial investment. And for some, you know, that might be Hey, this is an expense that we need to be thinking about caring for our elderly parents or others. It might be, Hey, do they have the documents, the right documents in place that we just talked about? And do we have an awareness, understanding and transparency into that information? Which admittedly, is a very hard and awkward conversation to have no matter which way we’re looking at it. So thoughts here on some of the financial conversations with aging parents?

Tim Baker 34:44

So I think this can be both from an estate planning perspective, but also like a retirement perspective. So it’s very common for you know, our clients, you know, maybe who are you know, first generation immigrant that you know, they basically Say, Tim I am the retirement plan for my my parents. Right. So I think like building that into their into the our clients plan is gonna be really important because that’s, that’s part of their culture. That’s part of the goal. That’s I think that’s important. I think beyond that, you know, is more of the estate planning stuff. So I look at this as we have to, we have to secure our own estate plan. So our clients estate plan, but then what are the what are some of the things that can negatively affect, you know, and I’m talking negatively in terms of like financial, and maybe some of the legal and logistics, it could be the your parent, like elderly parents that don’t necessarily have a sound estate plan. So whether that’s, you know, we’ve talked about this, what’s the book “Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk” about some of those some of those conversations or some of those instances where, because of a lack of estate planning and foresight foresight, it’s negatively affecting the child’s plan or finances or time because they’re, they’re suing for conservativeship or you know, there, there’s just things that you’re don’t expect. So this is a tricky thing, because again, like I grew up in a household where we really talk about money that much, so it’s kind of a touchy subject. So how do you how do you go about having those conversations, and have, you know, have access to the detail that you need, but not being respectful, and not necessarily prying where you know, that it were, your parents made me feel uncomfortable, but they’re adult conversations that need to be had, because if you wait too long, then again, you’re you’re putting yourself in a position where you either can’t care or provide, you know, the support that you need to a parent, and it can ultimately, you know, negatively affect your own plan in terms of your, you know, financial resources, but also time. So, I think this is one of these things where, again, whether this is a family conversation around the holidays, or it’s a, an email or a letter, or it’s, Hey, this is a shared document, even give me passwords, and you know, I’m not going to access it until the time is needed to be able to do the things. But, you know, if something were to happen to your parents today, like, Do you know how to log into their different accounts? And what is the what’s the plan, and that can be a very uncomfortable conversation for some people, and for some people it’s not, like this, what it is, so I think, just to have that conversation, and understand where to go, what are the proper documents? What are the accounts? I think if you can do that before, you know, there’s capacity issues, or whatever, I think that’s gonna be really important. So that’s, that’s the big thing here.

Tim Ulbrich 37:47

And that’s one of things I appreciate so much, Tim, about Cameron Huddleston book, you mentioned, “Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk” is, it does provide a nice kind of third party and she’s got some great suggestions in that book of specific questions to ask, how to ask them how to ignite the conversations. And, you know, I think having that third party resource, even if you’re referencing that of, hey, I read this book, and you know, got me thinking that we should have a conversation and, you know, likely it’s not gonna be everything addressed in one conversation, but it opens up the door. Sure, it’s gonna be uncomfortable, but for, as you mentioned, for some people, maybe not depending on how they grew up around money, but so important that we understand, you know, what, what is the potential financial impact, as you mentioned earlier, for some if that means caring financially for the parents. And even if that’s not the case, there’s just a lot to consider in the estate planning process that we want to make sure that we’re honoring the wishes and aware of what’s going on as well. So number six, our final item on the six moves to consider for financial moves for mid-career pharmacists, Tim, is an insurance checkup. Again, not the most exciting part of the plan to be thinking about here, I’m talking about term life insurance, long term disability, perhaps beginning to think about long term care insurance as well. I know we’ve talked about term life, long term disability, even long term care extensively on the show before. Is this an opportunity to reevaluate those policies, you know, I’m thinking of this situation just as one, where let’s say somebody in their early 30s, bought a 20 year term. Now they’re at the end of their late 40s. And they’re looking at that saying, hey, the terms coming up here in the next, you know, five, six years. So talk to us about how we might look at the insurance part of the plan here as a mid-career pharmacist.

Tim Baker 39:25

I think like, in the absence of like, a, like an actual insurance calculation, you know, a lot of people will use a rule of thumb for term insurance of like, 10 to 15 times income, which again, that could have changed over the years. If, you know, if you have a 20 year policy, and you bought it in early 20s or 30s and now you’re you know, 40s 50s, like, what does that look like, you know, going forward? So I think like, I think, you know, and I think the other thing, too, is are there other wrinkles in your financial plan, i.e., hey, if I were to pass away, one of the questions I would ask myself is like, do I want to be able to send like, do I want to do I want Shay to have to worry about the mortgage or paying for the kids education? Right. So maybe that’s something that, like, I built into my, my plan going forward, and I didn’t have that, you know, 10 years ago. But now I do. So like, the other thing, too, is like, you know, again, mid-career, if you’re, if you maybe bought a house and moved out of the house, and now rented it, like, what, what happens from an insurance perspective? Like, do you want that property to be paid off? So I think like, I think, yeah, there’s there’s this renewal period, potentially, like, what do you need? And again, maybe it’s not, you know, maybe maybe you buy a 10 year term policy to kind of bridge it maybe don’t need another 20? Year? Maybe you do. But I think there’s also things that you can, in a proper calculation, say, Okay, this is important to me, this is not important to me, and then reflect that in insurance. So, obviously, I think the the life insurance is going to be really important. For some people, even getting it in place, which people just like the estate plan will drag their feet on that long term disability again, that’s one of the things I’m not really worried about short term disability, I think without it, I would just plus up the emergency fund, but from a long term disability, you know, again, how is your income changed over the over the course of the years, you know, if you’re, if you get it through a group policy, that’s going to typically be a function of what you earn. But, you know, if you have your own policy, should you supplement that policy? Because your earnings have continued to climb? You know, does that make sense long term care, we typically, you know, the our thought here is that we want to, we want to support the client as much to age in place. So so much of the science or so much of the studies show that the longer that you can be in your own surroundings and age in your own home, whatever that looks like. So that typically means bringing in some help as you age, you know, that’s going to be important. So what can we do to buy a long term care policy to meet that minimum, and then again, different parts of the country, that’s going to be a different, different amount per month. But we typically want to look at this, believe it or not, in our late 40s, early 50s, because there’s a sweet spot of, you know, if you’re too early, it doesn’t make sense. If you’re too late, it doesn’t make sense in terms of the availability of the of the policies. So what does that look like? So, typically, late 40s, early 50s, is when we want to have that conversation. And again, a lot of people, they kind of just like security, they kind of blow this off, like this is not for me, but you know, I think more and more of of, you know, the the industry is trying to support clients as best they can, to, you know, age in their home residence, and you know, and do it versus going into a facility or something like that. So long term care is going to be really important. And then the last one, I would mention, Tim is property and casualty. So doing an assessment here, holistic plan, which is our tax tool, has this deliverable that we’re testing out now that looks at homeowner’s auto and an umbrella policy. And what it does is try to find gaps in coverage. And if you think about homeowners, if you haven’t dusted that off in a while, like what your home was, you know, if you bought a home at 35, and now you’re 40, over the last five years, your home has appreciated a lot. So are you underinsured in that regard? You know, do you have enough assets? Or is there is there a risk there that you should have an overarching umbrella insurance to cover risk if something were to happen, or if you were to get sued? So these are kind of, again, next level things to kind of consider and just doing a checkup from an insurance perspective, do you have the proper life, long term disability? Is Long Term Care something on the horizon? And then from a property and casualty perspective, are there risks there that we don’t know about that we should have kind of, you know, a circling back to make sure that the coverages that we that are currently in place are, you know, suitable for what you’re currently at in terms of, of risk?

Tim Ulbrich 43:53

Yeah, that’s a good call on on the property casualty just for the appreciation you know, is a good good reminder for me as you mentioned, I was thinking about we had a fire of a house in our neighborhood it’s probably been sitting now for over a year and a half note no movement on the home and all I can think of is it’s probably some type of insurance issue going on trying to work through the process but you know that that’s exactly the question that came to mind right of hey, you know, what, what is the replacement coverage that you have? What’s the timeline of that replacement and given the appreciation and the cost to rebuild a fresh look at those policies, you know, is certainly warranted.

Tim Baker 44:27

I mean, I just I just got a picture here from Shay- fire in the next neighborhood. Fire started in the garage with a lithium battery charger catching on fire. So this is like as as we’re recording here, this is the picture from Shay so like, this stuff is important. Again, if we haven’t dusted that off in a while you’re leaving yourself open, you know, to risk that we don’t and I think it’s a somewhat of an easy fix to mitigate that.

Tim Ulbrich 44:53

Well I hope all was good there. Thanks again for great, great stuff, Tim, as we look through these six mid-career for pharmacist moves. For more information and details on each of these as a reminder, go to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/midcareer. Again, midcareer is one word. And for those that are looking to work with one of our certified financial planners at YFP on your individual financial plan, which would certainly touch these six areas as well as many more, make sure to head on over to YFPplanning.com. Again, that’s yfpplanning.com. You can book a discovery call. We’d love to have the opportunity to talk with you to see whether or not our services are the right fit. Tim, thanks so much and we’ll catch up again here in the future.

Tim Baker 45:32

Thanks, Tim.

Tim Ulbrich 45:34

DISCLAIMER: As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archive newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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6 Financial Moves for Mid-Career Pharmacists

Posted on by Caitlin Boyle

Are you a mid-career pharmacist who’s tackled some of the financial planning basics but is left wondering, “What’s next?”

You’re not alone!

Whether you’re feeling confident in your current trajectory or are wondering if you need a financial tune-up, we’ve got you covered with six financial moves to make as a mid-career pharmacist.

1. Recast the Vision of Your Financial Plan

This point in your pharmacy career (10-30 years after graduation) is the perfect time to reflect on financial (and personal!) goals you previously set, take note of where you currently are with those goals, and reset the vision of them if needed.

The truth is that this phase of life often brings a lot of transition. Depending on your age and when or if you had children, you may be beginning to think about them moving out of the house. Maybe you have elderly parents that you’re trying to prioritize or plan for their future care. Perhaps you’re beginning to think about retirement and are wondering if you’re on track. Or maybe you’re still in the thick of trying to take care of yourself prioritizing the needs of your children.

No matter what you’re facing, this is an opportunity to take a step back and look at the vision and the goals for your financial plan, how those goals changed over time, and reset your goals and how you’re going to fund them if needed.

2. Savings, Savings, Savings

This step of the checklist includes your emergency fund and taking a pulse on your retirement savings.

Let’s dig in.

Emergency Funds

We recently released a podcast episode that took a deep dive into emergency funds, including how to determine if it’s adequately funded and optimized.

If you haven’t recently revisited your emergency fund and the reserves you have on hand, now is a good time to do so as there is a possibility that your needs have changed.

For an emergency fund, what we’re looking for is three to six months of non-discretionary monthly expenses. These are expenses that have to be paid whether you are working or not, including mortgage or rent payments, utilities, insurance premiums, and food. After you add up all of your non-discretionary expenses, multiply that by three if you have two household incomes or by six if you have one household income. This gives you the number that you should have saved in your emergency fund.

Typically for Your Financial Pharmacist planning clients, we see anywhere between $15,000-%50,000 that’s needed to be saved in an emergency fund.

Retirement

Have you recently wondered if you’re on track for retirement?

Pharmacists we talk to at this mid-career stage often feel like they are getting hit in every direction.

Between kids’ expenses, kids’ college needs, retirement savings, caring for elderly parents, and paying off remaining debt, there are a lot of financial and personal priorities. Because of all of these different pressures, sometimes the retirement piece falls to the side or wasn’t a top priority for a while, and now, as you get to a point of being able to visualize retirement more, you may be wondering if your retirement savings are on track.

Check out these podcast episodes in our retirement series that dig into retirement savings, how to determine how much is enough for retirement, nest egg calculations, and how to build a retirement paycheck:

Don’t miss downloading this free guide: Retirement Roadblocks – Identifying and Managing 10 Common Risks

3. Social Security

If you haven’t looked at ssa.gov to see what your social security statement or projected benefits look like, now is the time to do so.

Having an understanding of your projected social security benefits at retirement and how that fits into your nest egg calculation and overall financial plan is crucial.

To learn more about social security and mistakes to avoid making as a pharmacist, take a listen to these podcast episodes:

4. Estate Planning

Number four on our list of mid-career moves to consider making as a pharmacist is all about the estate plan.

We dug into this in detail on YFP 310: Dusing Off the Estate Plan.

Unfortunately, estate planning is a part of the financial plan that’s often ignored or isn’t given enough attention. Doing a beneficiary check and ensuring that you have estate planning documents in place so that your dependents and family are protected is so important.

The reality is, getting these documents in place isn’t fun to think about and it’s so easy to push this task to the side. This is your call to action to either update, take a fresh look at your estate planning documents, or get them created.

5. Conversations with Aging Parents

It’s not uncommon to see mid-career pharmacists entering a new stage of caring for their elderly parents. This is not only an emotional and time investment, but can also be a financial expense that you need to consider.

On top of that, knowing if your parents have the right estate planning documents in place or even having a deeper understanding and transparency of their financial situation can be valuable.

But how do you have these sometimes very hard and awkward conversations?

We had Cameron Huddleston, award-winning journalist and author of Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk, on YFP 321: Navigating Financial Conversations with Aging Parents. This one is a must-listen.

6. Insurance Check-Up

We often talk about term-life and long-term disability insurance at the front end of someone’s pharmacy career, but it’s important to re-evaluate these policies in your 30s, 40s, and 50s.

For example, if you bought a 20-year term life policy in your early 20s or 30s and now you are in your 40s or 50s, does it still provide adequate coverage for your family if something were to happen to you? Do you need to supplement your policy in any way because your earnings have continued to climb?

Other items to consider is looking into long-term care insurance, especially in your 40s or 50s, and property and casualty insurance.

We dig into long-term care insurance in this podcast episode:

5 Key Decisions for Long-Term Care Insurance (YFP 296)

Conclusion

If you’re a mid-career pharmacist interested in how working with our team of CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNERS™ at Your Financial Pharmacist can support you on your personal financial plan, which would touch on these six areas as well as many more, click here to learn more.

If you’re ready to take the next step, click here to book a free discovery call with our team.

YFP 357: Emergency Fund Check-Up: Five Questions You Must Answer

Posted on by Tim U

Tim Ulbrich, PharmD (YFP Co-Founder & CEO) covers five questions that you should ask related to your emergency fund to determine whether or not it is adequately funded and optimized.

This episode is brought to you by First Horizon.

Episode Summary

This week we’re diving deep into a financial fundamental that often flies under the radar: the emergency fund, also known as the rainy day fund.

Saving for unexpected expenses isn’t easy. It requires discipline, patience, and a leap of faith to stash away money for something you can’t predict. Especially when other financial goals, like paying off debt or investing, are competing for your attention.

In this week’s episode, we explore why having an emergency fund is crucial. From unexpected medical bills to home repairs or sudden job loss, life throws curveballs when we least expect it. But having a well-stocked emergency fund isn’t just about having the dollars to cover these surprises; it’s about gaining peace of mind and confidence.

Join host, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, as he covers 5 questions you should ask related to emergency fund to determine whether or not it is adequately funded and optimized. Remember, when life throws you a curveball, your emergency fund will be there to catch you.

About Today’s Guest

Tim Ulbrich is the Co-Founder and CEO of Your Financial Pharmacist. Founded in 2015, YFP is a fee-only financial planning firm and connects with the YFP community of 15,000+ pharmacy professionals via the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast podcast, blog, website resources and speaking engagements. To date, YFP has partnered with 75+ organizations to provide personal finance education.

Tim received his Doctor of Pharmacy degree from Ohio Northern University and completed postgraduate residency training at The Ohio State University. He spent 9 years on faculty at Northeast Ohio Medical University prior to joining Ohio State University College of Pharmacy in 2019 as Clinical Professor and Director of the Master’s in Health-System Pharmacy Administration Program.

Tim is the host of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast which has more than 1 million downloads. Tim is also the co-author of Seven Figure Pharmacist: How to Maximize Your Income, Eliminate Debt and Create Wealth. Tim has presented to over 200 pharmacy associations, colleges, and groups on various personal finance topics including debt management, investing, retirement planning, and financial well-being.

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1. Recast the Vision of Your Financial Plan

2. Savings, Savings, Savings

3. Social Security

4. Estate Planning

5. Conversations with Aging Parents

6. Insurance Check-Up

Conclusion

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