pharmacist side hustle

YFP 350: Monetizing Your Clinical Expertise with Dr. Gauthier (YFP Classic)

Posted on March 15, 2024March 15, 2024 by YFP Media

Tim Gauthier, PharmD, creator of two learning platforms shares advice for pharmacists seeking to monetize their clinical expertise. Episode sponsored by APhA.

Episode Summary

This week on the YFP Podcast, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, welcomes antimicrobial stewardship pharmacist and fellow pharmacy entrepreneur, Tim Gauthier. Tim is the creator of IDStewarship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com. During the show, Tim and Tim discuss the genesis for creating these two learning platforms, how Tim has monetized his clinical experience to create passive streams of income, and how he manages to stay consistent in entrepreneurship while balancing a full-time pharmacy career and fulfilling personal life.

Listeners will hear about Tim’s pathway to pharmacy, what drew him into the profession, his passion for infectious disease pharmacy, and what he was hoping to accomplish with his learning platforms, IDStwardship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com. Tim walks us through the content and resources available on his websites and how he has monetized them while providing a wealth of free content to his community.

Making things passive and generating passive revenue streams is crucial to Tim, and he shares the tools and systems he has put in place to make that goal possible while balancing other obligations. Tim also discusses the incredible value of community and how he has built an active, engaged pharmacists community that contributes to the platforms in multiple ways. Tim closes with advice for pharmacists looking to follow a similar path in monetizing their clinical expertise.

About Today’s Guest

Timothy P. Gauthier, Pharm.D., BCPS, BCIDP is a pharmacist trained in infectious diseases and antimicrobial stewardship. He is a clinician, researcher, educator, and author. He is an advocate for antimicrobial stewardship and pharmacy education.

Dr. Gauthier graduated from Northeastern University’s School of Pharmacy (Boston, MA) in 2008. He then completed a Post-Graduate Year-1 Pharmacy Practice Residency and a Post-Graduate Year-2 Infectious Diseases Pharmacy Residency at Jackson Memorial Hospital (Miami, FL). Since finishing terminal training he has worked in academia (Nova Southeastern University, 2010-2015), clinical practice (Miami Veterans Affairs Healthcare System, 2015-2019), and a leadership role (Baptist Health South Florida, 2019-current), all focusing on advancing the fields of infectious diseases pharmacy and antimicrobial stewardship.

He holds certifications from the Board of Pharmacy Specialties for Pharmacotherapy and Infectious diseases. He has completed the Making A Difference in Infectious Diseases Pharmacotherapy Antimicrobial Stewardship Training Program.

He is the creator and editor-in-chief of www.IDstewardship.com, www.LearnAntibiotics.com, and the many @IDstewardship social media profiles. He co-hosts the #ASPchat each month on Twitter. He reaches thousands of people each day on the internet and on social media, where he aims share reliable and relevant information from the world of pharmacy and healthcare in general. IDstewardship.com alone has registered over 5,00,000 page views as of November 2022.

Key Points from the Episode

The genesis for creating two learning platforms (IDStewardship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com)
How Dr. Gauthier has monetized his clinical expertise to create passive revenue streams
How Dr. Gauthier manages and leverages his time to be able to consistently put out good content while working full-time and fulfilling his personal commitments and goals

Episode Highlights

“So it’s been a really rewarding experience, and collaborating with others from around the world has been something an area of success, I think, to be part of kind of the community that I’ve built. But I have a lot of flexibility, and that’s one thing that a lot of organizations don’t have.” – Tim Gauthier

“But that’s what drives me because I just really am totally obsessed with infectious diseases and microbial stewardship, and I think people need help learning. I needed a lot of help learning. I see where there’s benefit. I see where there’s value. There’s some monetary benefit that comes with it. It’s not anything that’s extreme by any means. But by having that win-win, it’s really been something that I think has been worth pursuing.” – Tim Gauthier

“I think that’s kind of the most important thing I’ve learned when it comes to telling people you have something to share with them, showing them that it’s meaningful, getting them excited about it, showing them that you’re a reliable person that has the know-how to get them the resource that they need to succeed. That is really critical. So that’s kind of some of the messaging there.” – Tim Gauthier

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRO]

[00:00:00] T. ULBRICH: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I had a chance to welcome antimicrobial stewardship pharmacist and fellow pharmacy entrepreneur, Tim Gauthier. Tim is the creator of IDStewardship.com and LearnAntibiotics.com. During the show, Tim and I talk about the genesis for creating these two learning platforms, how Tim has monetized his clinical expertise, and how he manages and leverages his time to be able to consistently put out good content while working full-time and fulfilling his personal commitments and goals.

Before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 250 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

All right, let’s jump into my interview with pharmacist and entrepreneur, Tim Gauthier.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:21] T. ULBRICH: Tim, welcome to the show.

[00:01:23] T. GAUTHIER: Hey, thanks for having me. I’m really excited to be here. How are you, Tim?

[00:01:26] T. ULBRICH: I’m well. I’m excited to dig into the work that you’re doing and for you to share with the YFP community how you’ve been monetizing your clinical expertise. But before we jump into that, I’d love to learn about your journey into pharmacy school, into the profession, where you went to school, when you graduated, and what drew you into the profession of pharmacy.

[00:01:44] T. GAUTHIER: Oh, yeah, of course. So I went to Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts and graduated in 2008, which feels like yesterday, but it’s been four years now. I got into pharmacy because I really was interested in microbiology. It turns out it’s easier to transfer into microbiology from pharmacy than pharmacy to microbiology. So I started in pharmacy. I ended up sticking with it. I never thought I’d go into infectious diseases pharmacy, just because it didn’t really cross my mind, and I didn’t know much about that early in my years.

Then later on, after PGY1, I had the opportunity to do a PGY2 in ID. Lo and behold, today, I’m an infectious diseases-obsessed pharmacist, who’s out there to defend antibiotics and promote clinical pharmacy. So here we are today.

[00:02:27] T. ULBRICH: So the Northeast, Tim, to Florida. This is the time of year in the Northeast. I grew up in the Buffalo area, where it’s beautiful. I always say six months out of the year, I’d live anywhere else. But the Midwest I’m at now or the Northeast. But the other six months, included this time of year, is absolutely gorgeous. So do you miss the seasons at all?

[00:02:49] T. GAUTHIER: I do miss the seasons, but the winter in Miami, Florida, where I live now, is just absolutely wonderful. I love the culture, as well as all the different types of food here. We do visit. Periodically, I go to Boston, Rhode Island, Connecticut and stuff. So it’s nice to be able to have a little bit of the best of both worlds.

[00:03:06] T. ULBRICH: Yeah, yeah. So we connected several years back, and I’ve been following your work for some time. I wanted to bring you out in the show, as I think what you’ve built is a really cool example of how pharmacists can monetize their clinical expertise. Certainly, as we’ll talk about, it’s not just about the money, but it’s being able to leverage the skills, the passion, the interest that you have to fill a gap in the market and to help people looking to learn more about a topic.

Here, we’re going to be talking about infectious disease, of course, and we have featured a variety of individuals on the podcasts over the past year or so. So I’m excited to share your journey as well. So let’s start with IDStewardship.com. When and why did you start it? Who was it for? What were you hoping to accomplish?

[00:03:49] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. So IDStewardship.com has been alive since about 2016, and I just had a friend who knew how to build websites, and I wanted to build something on my own, and he offered to help and put it together. Then I kind of took off from there, and I do pretty much everything on my own now. When I have a technical problem, he comes in? But why did I do it? There’s a couple of reasons.

One is I wanted to own my own space on the Internet, where I could have a voice, where I could publish things and not be restricted by a company or a manager or a group of people. Also, I just really enjoy your writing. So it gave me an opportunity to use a different part of my brain on the weekends and in the evening hours to share information that could be open access and someone else could benefit from. There’s a huge need in pharmacy. It has been for us to share our experiences and practical advice and insights so that others can learn and grow from it.

Also, just sharing information about antibiotics to make it easier for people to understand what drugs can I use for MRSA or Pseudomonas. But then some deeper things like what are five things to know about, I don’t know, Stenotrophomonas or Acinetobacter. So really, it’s just a myriad of content these days. If you’re a pharmacy professional, if you’re a healthcare professional, there’s some stuff on there that you’ll be interested in. If you’re just looking for fun stuff, there’s a drug name emoji that people really, really seem to enjoy.

[00:05:03] T. ULBRICH: So I’m trying to understand, Tim, the need you’re filling with this resource. So obviously, we all went through ID curriculums in our PharmD program. There are there are PGY2 residencies that focus on this fellowships who focus on this. Certainly, there are associations or interest groups within associations that focus on this. So what is different here that you’re trying to carve out to fill a need that you felt like either wasn’t being met for you or for other clinicians through those other learning pathways?

[00:05:32] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. I didn’t do very well in ID in pharmacy school, ironically, and I didn’t feel comfortable with it until I was like halfway through my PGY2. Practical resources that are available that are insightful and that consider the things that are beyond just the obvious, those were lacking. That really motivated me to try to put out things that were interesting. But also, like when you go to practice, these are five things you need to know about [inaudible 00:05:55] come across [inaudible 00:05:57]. I think that the community has received it really well, but I use social media to amplify that voice in different social media platforms.

So it’s been a really rewarding experience, and collaborating with others from around the world has been something an area of success, I think, to be part of kind of the community that I’ve built. But I have a lot of flexibility, and that’s one thing that a lot of organizations don’t have.

[00:06:21] T. ULBRICH: Yes, yeah. The digestible nature of the content strikes me. You’ve alluded to it a couple of times with examples you’ve given thus far in the show. It reminds me of one of the pharmacist we’ve had on this show, Kelley Carlstrom, on episode 217. Her business called KelleyCPharmD. She does an awesome job of this in the pharmacy space, specifically in oncology practice, making it accessible, no matter where you are. She trained at the Cleveland Clinic, an internationally recognized institution. Not everyone can go do your residency there, right? Has the time to commit, potentially has to travel to do that.

Her vision really is what about all the other hospitals? What about all the rural healthcare settings that are trying to treat patients and get their clinical staff up to speed? Or perhaps different practice models that don’t have a lineup of board certified residency trained pharmacists with multiple credentials? How can we expand the accessibility of this content? That’s one of things I love about what you’re doing here, and it really does strike me as being much more accessible than what is out there and some more traditional training programs or those that are offered by other groups.

It’s also written and presented in a way that is easy to understand. It’s relevant. It’s things that, Tim, you’re experiencing daily as a clinician yourself or encounters when you’re precepting residents or students. So you know the pain points. You know the questions, the problems, the points of confusion because you’re living them each day. I love the platform of what you built to address that.

So take us, Tim, through IDStewardship.com, in terms of the content you have, the resources you offer, and how you’ve been able to monetize it, right? You give out a lot of great content for free. But you also been able to monetize the site and enable to reap some of the fruit for all the work that you’re putting in, and you’ve put in over the last seven years. So talk to us about what you offer and provide on the site and how you’ve been able to monetize that.

[00:08:14] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. I offered way too much stuff for free, probably. But exactly like an altruistic passion project, it has to make some kind of money for my wife to allow me to continue it. So definitely, it’s a mixed bag. But the art of the IDStewardship.com offers articles, which are blog articles talking about the student experience, the pharmacist experience, clinical insights into common questions that we ask and that we see. Those are always written by content experts who have practical experience in the area, and I vet all that content to make sure it’s reliable, credible, and it goes beyond like the obvious content that you might find in a general article.

Also, there’s a study guide section, which is free and open access that has a picture of the drug, some of my key points, which I think you might find on your pharmacy school exams or maybe the BCPS or BCIDP exam and then links to some of the articles or some of the guidelines that are really relevant to that drug. I have a list of resources, which is pretty cool. If you’re looking for anything about antibiotics, that is a very robust list of resources. So like hepatitis C screening for Child-Pugh score. There’s a calculator in there. Just pick one random example. Or even if you’re looking for regulatory content from the Joint Commission, it’s linked there.

I also have the contributor section, where you can see who’s participated, and there’s really a lot of contributors to my website. So I do want to emphasize that that’s a really cool part of what I’ve been able to do, and it’s not just Tim doing it. It’s the community. But I kind of lead it because I’m kind of like the editor in chief of the content founder. The other part, though, which I really want to talk about for a second is LearnAntibiotics.com. So I’ve taken the opportunity to show people that, yes, these are articles that are available. But I’ve been able to produce content that you can use for learning. As a background in academia, I know that you have to go and be able to identify and define before you can analyze and assess and predict.

So I’ve built content specifically to help people through that learning process. If you’re looking to identify and define, I have cheat sheets on different disease states, on different drug classes. Those can help people to say, okay, like, “Pseudomonas drugs, these are my drugs.” But then I also make more fun content that has like a word search or a Jeopardy game. Those can be applied to the specific area. Then the practice tests I’ve built so that if you are able to pass that practice test, you can practice pretty competently as a pharmacist and know what questions to ask for infectious diseases and even some of them I’ll give you. Here’s the question, here’s the answer, and here’s the rationale for why each answer is right, and each answer is wrong. So it’s pretty robust.

[00:10:59] T. ULBRICH: I love that and I want to come back in a little bit to talk more about the LearnAntibiotics.com, in terms of what you’re trying to accomplish there. I think that’s going to give some folks some interesting ideas about as you’re considering monetizing your clinical expertise, there’s a lot of different ways to do that. I love what you’ve built there with that membership type of model.

Two words, Tim, that really stand out about what you’ve built and the vision that you have going forward are passion and community. You mentioned community just a moment ago, and I love that you’ve brought together a group of people that are, obviously, passionate about learning more about antimicrobial stewardship, learning more about infectious disease, bringing in contributors to the site, taking them from just a passive learner, to engaging them in the conversation, contributing to the community, and then passion. Your passion for this topic and furthering individuals’ knowledge and, obviously, the more our healthcare professionals know about this topic, the better they’re able to serve their patients.

I think this is so important for folks to hear, when you’re working on a side hustle or a business, especially when you’re working a full-time job, you have lots of other commitments, doing something that you’re passionate about, you mentioned that I probably got too much free content out there, right? It’s a passion project for you. Yes, you’re monetizing it. But that is going to really drive the energy and the enthusiasm to continue to build, especially in the early years, as someone who’s trying to get something off the ground.

Tim, as people go to IDStewardship.com and they see what you’ve built over several years, how much of this is what you have built and maintained? And how much of this is what you have other people that are helping you in building and maintaining the site?

[00:12:36] T. GAUTHIER: That’s a great question, and it’s definitely changed over time. When I started to look at developing a website, I talked to one of my friends who’s in website development, and he said, “Tim, we can do a website. But this is not a six-month thing, and this is not a one-year thing. This is like a 10-year journey, and you have to think of it very long-term.” So taking small bites has been one of the keys to success. As I’ve understood the workflows on developing different items, it’s gotten to be more efficient over time. I do produce actually the majority of the content on my own when it comes to the background work.

But the one thing that people send to the community of pharmacists, they’re willing to be a part of this journey. Them sending me articles and communicating with me and offering their assistance and trying to get their message out and share their passion, that really has enabled me to produce more content and put more information out there. But it is a tremendous amount of work. I do spend a lot of time between the hours of 8:00 PM and 11:00 PM working on this type of stuff. I think if you don’t have the passion for it, it’s probably going to be hard to do it long term.

But that’s what drives me because I just really am totally obsessed with infectious diseases and microbial stewardship, and I think people need help learning. I needed a lot of help learning. I see where there’s benefit. I see where there’s value. There’s some monetary benefit that comes with it. It’s not anything that’s extreme by any means. But by having that win-win, it’s really been something that I think has been worth pursuing.

One of the secrets that they say is not to do things alone, right? If you’re going to build a program like this, or you’re going to build a side business. I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand, I love the freedom that I have. I have total creative freedom to do whatever I want, whenever I want, with no one arguing with me. But at the same time, being in an echo chamber with yourself is not always a positive thing, and having a partner can push you in good directions. So I think partnerships are important, and you can choose to pursue things as a partnership or as an individual.

Something else I want to note that as I built out what I have online with IDStewardship is I’ve really purposely tried to make it about the brand and not about me. That kind of protects me in a way because the voice is the voice of the brand and not the voice of the individual. Also, people can engage within behind that brand and be a part of the community again, rather than it being part of what Tim is doing. So that was actually very strategic in the development.

[00:15:02] T. ULBRICH: Yeah, Tim. I think that’s a strategic move for the reason you mentioned also. I think about the passion and the mission of what you’re trying to do. Like there may be a day where maybe this isn’t only Tim who’s doing this. Or for whatever reason, you have others that are involved in the mission of advancing the education around IDStewardship and being able to have this information accessible, where folks can learn and perhaps be excited about learning it I think transcends just one person, right? So I think the contributors is another important aspect here of what you’ve highlighted.

[00:15:34] T. GAUTHIER: Like making things passive is also really important to me. I’ve learned that a lot during COVID because COVID has been absolutely horrible for all infectious diseases pharmacists and time management and when life was balanced. I mean, everybody in general. But I mean, trying to keep up with the literature and be engaged, on top of having this site and stuff going on, I need things to be able to put on pause, right? If I have no commitments that I’ve made, that’s not going to serve me well in the long term. So I really try to do things that are passive whenever possible and then only commit to like a couple of things at a time.

[00:16:05] T. ULBRICH: Yeah. One other thing I was thinking about, Tim, as I was looking at your site, that would be I think good advice for folks that are thinking about building their own, especially if they don’t have a huge budget upfront to be able to hire a web developer. If you’re building a content-based site, it could be blog articles that you’re adding, podcasts that you’re adding, e-resources that you’re adding checklists, guides, e-books, whatever, like you want to make sure you’re building it in a way that you understand and can add to it on a regular basis.

So even if you’re working with a developer or a contractor to help you, making sure you have enough understanding of the back end so that you’re not spending a whole lot of money long-term or frustrated that each time you’re trying to add a piece of content to the site, whether that’s a blog, podcast, an opt-in guide, whatever be the case, that you want to be able to have something that’s nimble, and you can add to over time.

[00:16:51] T. GAUTHIER: I’ve seen some people who built 20,000, 25,000-dollar websites, and they tend to be the people that follow a lot of podcasters in the space of like social media and engagement and business development. So I think if you’re committed to it, it can be worth the money. But you got to proceed with caution.

[00:17:10] T. ULBRICH: When I go to the site, Tim, and you mentioned already that LearnAantibiotics.com, www.learnantibiotics.com, we’ll link to that in the show notes, which takes you over to the IDStewardship site, that really is the membership portion of the site, where folks can be engaging with the community on an ongoing basis. Obviously, the goal there is that becomes some stability of recurring revenue that supports a lot of the time and effort and the free content that you’re putting out there.

Talk to us about – I think in content marketing, and I hesitate to use that word because I feel like you’re leading with such good passion and education that sometimes that word can sound dirty. But ultimately, the value that you’re providing and really good free rich education is naturally going to make people aware of what you’re doing on the membership side, which has a recurring revenue potential.

So what has your strategy or approach been to connect the free content with the membership model? Is it just that, hey, more eyeballs on the site and value that they’ll kind of find their way over there? Is it opt-ins that then point people to that resource? Tell us more about the strategy that you’ve employed to connect the free education people are viewing and receiving with some of the paid options you have.

[00:18:24] T. GAUTHIER: For sure. As you’re saying, this, I’m thinking about how I need to be more strategic. Sometimes, just go with the flow. That feels good. That feels good. Sometimes, I think of things, and I’m like, “Oh, I wish I had done that.” Even right now, there’s a list of things that if I had the time in my life to do, I would totally do.

But in general, what I try to do is capture a large audience and engage a large audience and do that through all these different ways that I think of, whether it’s something that’s like a clickable link on an Instagram story, or it’s a new blog post that I put out, or it’s putting a meme out there or just sharing like, “Hey, here’s like a part of my cheat sheet. If you’d like to see more of it like, shoot me your email address. I’ll shoot you a copy of this cheat sheet in full.” Then I have a way to communicate with those individuals. So if you’re just interested in the LearnAntibotics site or you’re interested in like all of IDStewardship, and you want to get our monthly newsletter, I’m able to reach you that way.

Another thing that’s important about having a mail listing is that if like tomorrow, Instagram decides to just delete my account, which they can’t, I have nothing. I’m left with nothing. Whereas since I have a Mailchimp account, they’re able to house my ability to communicate with my people. So in general, I provide something for free. I get the ability to contact these people. If you want to unsubscribe, I have no problem with that. Actually, when people unsubscribe, I don’t have to pay for you to be on my listserv anymore. I actually don’t mind at all. So if you don’t look at the newsletters we send out, feel free to unsubscribe. But if you want to subscribe, then we’d love to communicate with you.

I think that’s kind of the most important thing I’ve learned when it comes to telling people you have something to share with them, showing them that it’s meaningful, getting them excited about it, showing them that you’re a reliable person that has the know-how to get them the resource that they need to succeed. That is really critical. So that’s kind of some of the messaging there.

[00:20:18] T. ULBRICH: Yeah. I think one of the other things you’ve done really well, Tim, that I admire is you’re consistent in your content. We know and we’ll talk in a moment about how you balance time with other personal responsibilities. None of us are perfect and consistent in delivering the same amount of material, but you’ve been consistent over the years in terms of there’s not months and months of like quiet phases, and then you dump a bunch of content.

I think that’s so important for any – If we think about communities we like to be a part of or content we like to follow, it’s a consistent offering that we’re engaging with that content. So as you’re getting started, as someone’s getting started, I think thinking about what is – Once you decide on the medium, is it a blog, is it a podcast, whatever you’re looking at, is it something like a vlog, what is going to be your rhythm roughly that you’re going to be delivering content and making sure you’re showing up on a consistent basis with your audience and those that are finding value from what you’re doing?

[00:21:10] T. GAUTHIER: Along those lines, I think listening to your community is important. I had someone email me recently and say, “Hey, Tim. I wish you had a malaria cheat sheet because I’m studying for the BCIDP exam or the BCPS exam,” I forget which. I made one that weekend, and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was super interesting. I learned a bunch about malaria. So not only does it like help people advance their professional goals. It helps me remember things. I use my websites all the time to remember some of these nuances that are details that are just – You can’t remember everything.

[00:21:40] T. ULBRICH: That’s where I think the community piece comes in well too. You’ve got a good social media following. I’m sure people reach out to your questions all the time. You have students on rotation. You start to put some of those repeated questions into content buckets, right? I know you have a list of running content ideas. I’m sure you do. But once you hear a question more than one, two, or three times, it’s like, all right, maybe there’s something here in terms of a piece of content that we should be putting out.

Let’s talk about time and balancing doing this. You’ve certainly made a strong case that there’s a lot of passion behind it. But nonetheless, like you’ve got a family. You’re working a full-time job. You’re precepting residents, students. You have expectations at home and at work. Like what strategies have you employed time blocking, or how have you been able to really leverage time so that you can continue to put out content on a consistent basis while working full-time?

[00:22:31] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. Well, in the early days, and I was working at the Veterans Affairs Hospital in Miami, and they’re very strict in terms of their hours. So when you’re off duty, you’re off time. So everything that I did in the beginning was during off hours. That’s still the same today, but it taught me that you should only work on these things when you’re not on company resources, etc.

But then I didn’t have small children in the early days, which meant I have had a lot more time, especially in the evening areas of the day. More recently, I have a three-year-old and a seven-year-old, and the evening hours are much more strenuous. So now, since we’ve developed more of an awareness in the community about IDStewardship, I reach out to people. When I see an article posted on like Twitter about something new that I’m interested in, I’ll reach out to the person who authored the article and say, “Hey, I’d love to have you write five things to know about whatever the topic is.”

People almost always say yes because they want to share their passion. But it’s not just about me getting content. They now have a way to share that information. Sometimes, it’s the resident or the student or the second or third author that I work with. So they get an opportunity to share their voice. Coming up with strategies where I don’t have to do all the work has been one thing. Then also, like when you look at the development of like research and scholarly work in an academic position, you kind of look at it like a conveyor belt, and you want projects in all areas of your conveyor belt.

Some things are in – You’re designing. What do you think it might look like, and you have your concepts, your list of projects? Then other things are going into publication, going out on the newsletter. So you’re constantly just like feeding that conveyor belt and keeping it going in different areas, and that’s how you stay productive over a long period of time. It’s not about taking one thing and rushing it forward but just maintaining that conveyor belt. There might be different conveyor belts that go faster or slower, and some things might take two years to do.

But I always move forward with projects based upon what I think is like fun and interesting, and I don’t put pressure on people. I’m not out there saying, “Hey, if you don’t get back to me in two weeks, you’re not going to be allowed to do this.” If you don’t feel like doing this later because you have a problem, whatever. Don’t do it. If you want to circle back in two years, circle back into years, like no pressure.

[00:24:39] T. ULBRICH: Take us a little bit behind the scenes. I think one of the barriers that folks run into is they’re just trying to get started, and they go to someone’s site. They don’t necessarily have a picture of what are some of the tools and the systems and the processes that you have in place. You’ve mentioned a couple things already. Obviously, you’ve got the website infrastructure. You mentioned the email list. So like for us, we use WordPress for our website build. We use Bluehost for our domain hosting. We use ActiveCampaign for our email marketing. Then we have several other tools we use for project management and other things.

So what are some of the tools that you use or that you have found to be helpful as you’ve been working on IDStewardship?

[00:25:18] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah, for sure. I use WordPress, and then I use WPX Hosting. Then for like the memberships, it’s PMPro or Paid Memberships Pro. I’ve been pretty happy with those overall. The WordPress in particular, it’s just overall really easy to use. You add a plug in. It updates. It’s no big deal. WPX is really – Once a year, I pay a fee. Once in a while, I’ll have a bandwidth issue. So I’ve learned that I need to downsize the images that I use when I post, which I think a lot of people kind of learn that lesson.

I mean, that’s really the gist of it. Outside that, I use Mailchimp for my emails. I don’t really love how much they charge. I think they’re charging me like 250 a month for like 25,000 subscribers. So it’s great to have that many subscribers, but it doesn’t feel good paying $2,500 a year for that. But it also motivates me to put out content to use that tool that I’m paying for. So those are some of the key things that I’m using now.

Otherwise, I just maintained like Excel sheets for a while. In the beginning, when I didn’t have as much content, I would do a lineup, and I would remind myself of when I posted to Facebook about a specific blog post, and I would just keep cycling through them. So I was always posting like one thing a day on Facebook. But it’s gotten to the point that I can’t do that anymore. I’d need to hire like a social media manager or something like that. I think as you grow, you need to start considering how can you work with who can you bring in.

Another thing is as I’ve kind of met people in life through my way or through other venues, I work with them. So I just met a guy over the weekend that he prints things for a living, right? So there’s so much opportunity for us to collaborate with printing things. My audience is interested in topics of pharmacy and infectious diseases. So being entrepreneurial is one of the definitely keys to success here and also not being stuck in your ways, being able to evaluate things, and then accept feedback. If it’s not going well and someone tells you it’s not going well, take that advice and see how you can make it better and ask them, “Hey, how can I make this better?”

[00:27:13] T. ULBRICH: Yes, great advice, Tim. I think for people that are listening, and they hear 25,000 people on an email list and again not getting paralyzed from Jump Street. I think I love what you shared of it was a spreadsheet to begin with, right? I’ve shared before on this podcast that the first 100 subscribers on our email list were a combination of text messages and Facebook messages and LinkedIn posts that I had, and that eventually got added to an email software. Eventually, we added automations. Eventually, we added opt-in funnels and all those things, project management, social media management tools, things like that. But just getting started, you can do a lot of that manually. Get some of the things off the ground. Then as you get momentum, you can build out the systems and the processes that will help with efficiencies.

Tim, if someone is listening and they are on the very front end of this, so let’s just pick another specialty that’s out there, and they’re thinking, “I’d love to build something in this domain, similar to what I see Tim doing with IDStewardship, Kelley doing with oncology. I also think about what Jimmy Pruitt’s doing with acute care out there in pharmacy,” like what advice would you have with them at the very beginning of their journey? If you think back to where you were when you started in 2015, like now looking back seven years later, like what piece of advice would you have to share with them as they get started on this journey?

[00:28:33] T. GAUTHIER: Well, I mean, first of all, not just because I – If I say something, it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. So it’s just my opinion on some of this. So feel free to disagree. But one thing I feel is that, especially when it comes to social media, people go on Twitter, on TikTok, on Facebook because they’re looking for things for themselves. So if you’re not putting out things that are going to be interesting to your audience, then your audience is not going to grow like they should.

So everything that you do, no matter what you’re doing, should be aligned with why your audience is going to that area, and that’s going to help to get them to like it, get them to share it, which is very, very difficult in the pharmacy profession. We’re like 90% passive users. We love to learn.

[00:29:11] T. ULBRICH: That’s right.

[00:29:13] T. GAUTHIER: I’ll post something on Facebook, man, and it’s like five likes. But then I’ll see that I got 250 link clicks. So it’s very interesting. From an outside, you might look at my Facebook page or something and say, “Oh, I got a couple of likes or clicks,” and you can’t see the clicks, but you’ll only see a couple of likes, and they got lots of clicks. So it’s kind of one thing that’s important, I think, as you’re starting off.

Another thing about starting off would probably be considered like long-term how you’re going to grow, and you’re talking about the design of your product. I think that core message and that core what am I doing here is really important. Over time, is that going to change? Because if it’s focused on something that’s relevant now like COVID, for example, or moneypox, maybe that’s not relevant in two years from now.

[00:29:59] T. ULBRICH: It’s pretty cool. Yep, absolutely. That’s great stuff, Tim. I’m excited for our listeners, if they’re not already aware to follow the journey, and I hope they’ll opt in your newsletter. Where is the best place that folks can go to follow you and the journey and the work that you’re doing?

[00:30:16] T. GAUTHIER: Yeah. I mean, definitely IDStewardship.com, and you can sign up for our newsletter there or just follow along on Instagram or our Facebook or goods areas. Twitter, you can find me there as well. It’s a little bit more focused on infectious diseases and as a whole and staying up with the literature on Twitter. So either of those but the newsletters are really a good place to start.

[00:30:37] T. ULBRICH: Awesome. Thanks, Tim. Appreciate you taking time to come on the show.

[00:30:39] T. GAUTHIER: Oh, it was my pleasure. We’ve worked together for so long over the years. It’s really a wonderful opportunity for me, and I appreciate your time.

[00:30:46] T. ULBRICH: Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:30:47] T. ULBRICH: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

Thank you, again, for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 344: Beyond the ER: The Entrepreneurial Journey of Dr. Jimmy Pruitt

Posted on February 1, 2024February 1, 2024 by YFP Media

Jimmy Pruitt, PharmD, Founder & CEO of Pharmacy & Acute Care University, shares insights on his entrepreneurial journey and the EMPower Rx Conference.

Episode Summary

In this week’s episode, join us as we sit down with Dr. Jimmy Pruitt, a Clinical Pharmacy Specialist in Emergency Medicine at Atrium Health. Dr. Pruitt wears multiple hats as the Founder & CEO of Pharmacy & Acute Care University and the brains behind the EMPowerRx Conference. Our conversation delves into his fascinating entrepreneurial journey, exploring the roots of why and how he embarked on this path.

Throughout the episode, we gain valuable perspectives on the intricacies of balancing professional commitments and entrepreneurial endeavors. Dr. Pruitt shares his experiences, lessons learned, and the strategies he employed to overcome obstacles on his journey. Dr. Pruitt also shares his vision for the EMRower Rx Conference – a unique conference and continuing education experience for professionals in emergency medicine pharmacotherapy.

Tune in to this insightful conversation with Dr. Jimmy Pruitt to glean wisdom from his unique blend of clinical expertise and entrepreneurial spirit. Whether you’re navigating the realms of healthcare, entrepreneurship, or both, this episode offers valuable insights and inspiration for the road ahead.

About Today’s Guests

Dr. Jimmy Pruitt is originally from Orlando, FL, and is a combination of nerd and gym junky having a background as a division 1 cornerback then turned Doctor of Pharmacy from Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy in 2017. He completed a PGY-1 Pharmacy Residency at Florida Hospital Orlando, and then went on to Grady Health System in Atlanta GA for his PGY2 Emergency Medicine Residency. Dr. Pruitt is currently an Emergency Medicine Clinical Pharmacy Specialist at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, SC.

Dr. Pruitt was honored with the Excellence in Diversity from MUSC College of Pharmacy, Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy (PCSP) Alumni of the Year, and keynote speaker for the 2021 PCPS graduation. Dr. Pruitt’s professional interests include cardiac arrest, shock syndromes, trauma, and hosting the #1 Emergency Medicine Pharmacy Podcast “Pharm So Hard” and operation his new pharmacy academy called Pharmacy & Acute Care University.

Key Points from the Episode

Entrepreneurship and pharmacy with Dr. Jimmy. [0:00]
Entrepreneurship, pharmacy, and education with Jimmy Pruitt. [1:37]
Validating a gap in the market for pharmacist-created acute care content. [6:21]
Overcoming fear and taking the first step in starting a podcast. [12:01]
Balancing full-time work and business as a creator. [16:10]
Growing a team and delegating tasks. [22:53]
Business growth and vision for a pharmacy education company. [29:02]
Emergency medicine pharmacotherapy conference. [34:56]
Emergency medicine and pharmacotherapy conference. [39:25]

Episode Highlights

“The biggest thing that people say is like sometimes you have to just jump and you just have to do all these different things. And I’m like, I have a family, one. So that really kind of changes the dynamic. It’s not just me making this big shift, but I want to make sure that I was able to consistently get that number.” – Jimmy Pruitt [18:37]

“But I’ve noticed as I continue doing both of this, me being a business owner and being very focused as being the president, CEO, whatever the title you want to give yourself when you’re when you’re starting out, it actually made me a better employee.” – Jimmy Pruitt [19:09]

“So as I looked at the component of making sure I’m meeting that output, that I need to be able to consider stepping back, I also realized there was so much more value, because now I’m able to understand other people’s problems.” – Jimmy Pruitt [20:29]

“But learning more at the job and understanding the problems that they have, and other people like them have, has made me be able to understand the market, and how I can potentially use that in the future. But more importantly, my skills as a business owner, has allowed me to be able to solve problems that early in my career, and earlier, you know, in places I’ve been people don’t necessarily think about.” – Jimmy Pruitt [21:58]

“I think when looking at growing a team and really get into that first step of, I want to bring someone else into this, especially when you’re talking full time employment. The very first employee that I hired a couple of years back was just my virtual assistant. And one of the first aspects I realized was a very big challenge of mine was, how do I explain what’s in my head that I do every day?” -JImmy Pruitt [25:03]

“The big thing that I believe that I’m trying to accomplish over again, this next five to seven years is to make this to where we have one unified goal and mission we’re trying to do: provide high quality education related to pharmacotherapy.” – Jimmy Pruitt [31:20]

“I want to provide a home for those individuals and I want I want them to be able to have a home, whether they’re gonna be the consumer, or the producer.” – Jimmy Pruitt [32:42]

“And we want to figure out, how can we do it as for us and by us, instead of someone else creating it and thinking they know what we want. Why don’t we just create it from the ground up?” – Jimmy Pruitt [38:01]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

EMPowerRx Conference 2024 (use code YFP2024 for 15% off registration)
YFP Episode 284
Start by Jon Acuff
Procrastinate on Purpose by Rory Vaden
Your Financial Pharmacist
Your Financial Pharmacist on Facebook
Your Financial Pharmacist on Instagram
Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
Jimmy Pruitt on LinkedIn
YFP Disclaimer
YFP Newsletter
Pharm So Hard Podcast

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I welcome Dr. Jimmy Pruitt, a clinical pharmacy specialist in emergency medicine at Atrium Health, Founder and CEO of Pharmacy and Acute Care University and Founder and CEO of the Empower RX Conference. We discuss his entrepreneurial journey, including how and why he got started, why he has maintained full-time employment, challenges going from creator to solopreneur, to building a team and the vision for the business over the next five to 10 years. I’m excited to announce our partnership with the 2024 Empower RX conference, a leading event in emergency medicine pharmacotherapy. This year it’s happening in Charlotte, North Carolina on April 26-April 27. I’ll be there and hope to see you there as well. It’s ideal for pharmacists, physicians, PAs, nurses and others in the field. Empower RX offers more than 10 CPE credits, insights from top experts, interactive workshops and groundbreaking research. It’s not just a conference, it’s a community focused experience, fostering learning and networking in a welcoming environment. Take advantage of discounted registration available to the YFP community by using code YFP2024 for 15% off. Again, that’s code YFP2024 or 15%. You can join in person or virtually registered now at EmpowerRX-conference.com and elevate your emergency medicine skills. Again, that’s EmpowerRX-conference.com.

Tim Ulbrich 01:35

Jimmy, welcome back to the show.

Jimmy Pruitt 01:37

Hey, thanks for having me on again. And it’s been great.

Tim Ulbrich 01:40

So our listeners might remember you back from Episode 284, where we discussed your experiences monetizing your clinical expertise, we’ll link to that episode in the show notes so that folks can dig a little bit deeper. We’ll have some crossover here as well to bring people up to speed. But we certainly did a deeper dive in that episode. And Jimmy, for those that didn’t catch that episode and aren’t already familiar with you and your work, give us a brief introduction to your background and pharmacy and the work that you’re doing now with Atrium Health, as well as being the Founder and CEO of Pharmacy and Acute Care University and the Founder and CEO of the Empower RX Conference.

Jimmy Pruitt 02:14

Thank you. And that’s a mouthful for a lot of you guys. But again, I’m Jim Pruitt. Again, I’m by training at clinical pharmacy specialist at Atrium Health here in Charlotte, a Level One Trauma center, academic, Medical Center, all those great things. And then, in my spare time or lack lack thereof, I like to start off as being a content creator with this pharmacy PEARLS and just having different things that I can give my providers, then that really led to something else led to a podcast called Pharm So Hard. And once that happened, it was really the genesis of something special, I believe. It led to an audience of 1000s of people who didn’t know how to interest in acute care pharmacotherapy, and then from there trying to figure out how to solve the problems that they had. So that led to the next thing, the next thing being after 100. And so episodes Pharm So Hard led to Pharmacy and Acute Care University. And all that really is it just an academy that helps people, pharmacists in particular, with continuing education, but more particularly going to be for board certification prep. So whether you’re studying for your BCPS, or our most popular product that be CMP, your emergency medicine pharmacotherapy, or certification. That is where I spend a lot of my time- question banks, practice exams. And is making a lot of the content that goes along with that. And it’s just been phenomenal to see that growth. And what that led to is people saying, oh, man, I wish I had a place to go to talk about these things versus just studying for it, which led to the Empower RX Conference. So I think, long story short, I am an educator that started to understand the business a little bit more and continuing to learn what business is, and really is focused on how can I not just bring myself along, but how can I bring other people with me to understand the business side of things and monetize their expertise and content?

Tim Ulbrich 04:08

We’re gonna talk a lot about that on this episode, Jimmy, I want to pick your brain have you know, you started with with an idea identified a problem that needed to be solved starting to solve that problem, which opened up more doors built community in this niche, which is really exciting. And now as you enter this growth phase, you know, there’s exciting opportunities and challenges with, Hey, how does this grow beyond the hours that you have in the day? Right? And what what what challenges may that bring? I want to first ask you that I was I was stalking you on LinkedIn and noticed in your headline, you have four different words creator, connector, educator, and pharmacist. Do one of those resonate more with you than the others and why?

Jimmy Pruitt 04:49

I think that is that’s a very, that’s a great question for one, but I think it it depends, like a good lawyer would say it depends. It depends on what I’m doing. And I think as I look at the different platforms that I’m currently in, I tend to be on one side more than other depending on that particular project. So I like to say, the biggest thing is like, I can be a connector, because again, most of everything I’m doing is usually not just myself, I’m usually bringing different people on whether that’s going to be at work. And I’m working with a provider, and a nurse is having a concern about something, I’m connecting those two and that problem and trying to also provide a solution. The same thing for when I’m in my pacu, where my pack you have, well, a potential customer has a problem. They want to be board certified, and I’m trying to connect them with the best highest quality information that helps them get to their end goal. And my conference, prospective people want a place to come. So I’m literally physically now connecting them with other people throughout the world in emergency medicine, pharmacotherapy. So I think connectors the the one thing I can say, but realistically, I have to be all of those other things, to be able to be a good connector. I have to be a great pharmacist, I have to be entrepreneur to make these things happen consistently. And I have to be kind of a creator to be able to have that audience to begin with. So I think connectors the one word, but I think depending on what hat I’m wearing, is really just depends on that location.

Tim Ulbrich 06:21

Well, we say it depends on this podcast often. So that is that is welcome. But I appreciate what you’re what you’re sharing there. I want I want to dig deeper in a few areas that I see come up often with aspiring entrepreneurs and side hustlers that I talk with. And you know, one of the first things is really what was the beginning? Like, right, so the genesis of starting the side hustle that’s turned into a business, obviously, you have many, many different activities that you’re doing within that business. You know, tell us a little bit more about the problem that you are trying to solve and how you identify there is a gap and a need in the market. And I know you shared that briefly already. But you know, a natural question might be well, like Jimmy, aren’t these pharmacists already part of other organizations or, you know, cohorts where they’re able to gather other societies and so forth. So what stood out to you as an opportunity in the market that wasn’t already being served that you said, Hey, not only am I a part of this community, but I feel like my peers, my colleagues could also, you know, come together and we can provide value?

Jimmy Pruitt 07:22

Absolutely. So I think one of the things we look at, and I think the very first problem I wanted to solve was providing high quality education in the acute care space. So if we look, one of the things that is very common is that from a oncology standpoint, from a transplant, those medications that are branded still they have a lot of great continuing education out there. Because again, there’s grants, there’s different incentives for companies to make that content. And a lot of those get heavily represented. But from an acute care standpoint, a lot of things from a pharmacotherapy perspective was not necessarily being created by pharmacists. And emergency medicine in the pharmacy space is my first you know, love within this, but I realized that emergency medicine has everything is critical care is ambulatory care is all these other spaces. So I realized that there wasn’t pharmacist created content that was detailed, that was detailed, but also a concise so that we can see it and be actionable. And that was the aftermath of creating the pharmacy Frothy Pearls series that I created when I was a PGY2 resident at Grady. Once that kind of became the first thing I was like, Okay, well, the problem trying to solve is providing high quality education, from a pharmacist perspective in the acute care space, that is highly assessable. That was kind of a next branch with the audience that I was able to generate from from farm so hard, I realized that, hey, I’m already providing education, but I didn’t necessarily consider it to be very different and very unique. But then the audience would tell me these things. And after you start to look, you kind of change your perspective on how you’re looking at your interactions with people want to online, you realize, hey, I have a model here, from a business perspective that I can sustain because most of it, you know, I would love to direct you away for free every day. But it’s not sustainable. Yeah. And that was kind of the first component of finding pharmacist-created acute care, physical therapy information that was concise, but also provide them continuing education as well.

Tim Ulbrich 09:25

My next question was around validation. And how do you validate that that gap truly exists? You know, one of the traps, especially early on in a business as a hey, I’ve got a great idea. I’m gonna kind of run hard and then you realize, oh, wait a minute, like the problem that I thought needed to be solved. Either I’m in misalignment or maybe it’s not as big of a problem as I thought, you know, others may think and so you partly answered that when you said, hey, you know, through the podcasts, obviously, seeing your listeners getting some feedback, you are getting real time information that I’m sure shaped your next steps. Was there anything you did prior to starting that podcast as a PGY2 to validate the problem that needed to be solved, or was that the first step in?

Jimmy Pruitt 10:05

I think it was the first step. I would love to say that I had this aesthetic plan and things of that nature. But realistically, the first two years I was in business, I didn’t know I was in business. Yeah, because I wasn’t charging anything. I think that part of the equation that I didn’t look at what’s the value I was providing, and whether or not that was something that could be sold as a resume. And I think within pharmacy in general, we get so used to just providing a lot of content. And we’re just doing it for just the validation of our colleagues and just to provide great education. But I think the first piece that helped me understand the business aspect of it was when we started creating some of these, you know, hour long presentations, people said, hey, you know, is this for continuing education? And I said, Well, I can get it for but I didn’t realize the process, go through that. And then I remember saying, Hey, how can I get this credential? Is this AACPE certified? It’s like, oh, it’s a price tag to that. Yeah. And then the first step, like, how do I get that taken care of versus me just paying out of pocket a significant amount of money for one hour? I think the first the very first time I did this, three years ago, the credit hours was like $600 for one hour CE. And I was like, Well, if I have 100, people come to this, and we break this down, I think, you know, a few bucks would wouldn’t be horrible for me to do it. So I think that was the first step. But I think I don’t, it made me just think differently. That was the very first trigger to realize, like, hey, if I’m gonna sustain this, I have to figure out a way to monetize it, to just cover the basics of what I’m doing. I think that was the very first step in realizing people were okay with that. Not as many as I thought, initially. There’s a certain amount of people that was okay with that. And I realized that if I can scale it to any degree, it may be something that I can build build upon.

Tim Ulbrich 12:01

And speaking of first steps, you know, I often will will talk with folks that have an idea. But taking that idea, and taking the first step to begin implementation. It’s scary, right? I mean, you know, even when you do the validation of the idea, it’s one thing if people say, I’m interested, I’m gonna pay for it. It’s another thing if they actually show up and pay for it. And as you and I both know, you can assume some much lower percentage than then people may report. And so my question here is, how were you able to be comfortable with taking that first step, and maybe as a PGY2 resident, you know, maybe the pressures off a little bit, and you weren’t yet thinking about as a business, but even that, I’ve talked with pharmacists that are like, Hey, I’ve got a great idea. But, you know, to run a podcast, I got to do A, B, and C, and I got to worry about the microphone and editing and hosting, and yada, yada, yada. And soon enough, there’s no action. Right? There’s no action. And my question for you is, how were you able to take that important first step, that important first action, from which even though you didn’t know you’re in business, from what you would eventually learn and get feedback that would become the foundation of the business?

Jimmy Pruitt 13:09

Yeah, I think that the first step for me, and I would love again, to say that it was it was just phenomenal intuition and I was great, but it really came from mentorship. To be honest, the first thing was that someone, one of my mentors, John Paca, wanted to hear a podcast episode done by me. And he, he, I remember him mentioned, he’s my RPD, he’s my mentor, he was like, I want you to be yourself. And I want you to be different than everyone else. And that was the first thing he wanted me to do. So I think the process went from me having an idea to someone really pushing me and said they want to hear it. So the result was always him hearing this versus me starting it. So I think that was the first goal initially was that, hey, how let me produce this first episode, so he can hear it? Yeah. And that was the end result of the very first task or create this first pearl. So I can present it to these individuals because it’s part of my residency objectives. So I had like this end goal that I started while I was still in residency, but I think the biggest thing was him wanting to hear an episode, because the Pearls was the first thing but it wasn’t necessarily a first step into business. Pharm So Hard was actually the first step into business because again, that’s what opened me up to understanding the problems and the things that were valuable to people that wasn’t just my RPD. I think the first step was being able to start that podcast and the first step of me actually doing that was him saying, hey, I want I want to hear this. So I think for me, my action item was to complete it versus to start it. I think, getting to that point to where letting other people hear that episode, now that took a much longer period of time. To say same episode, I recorded the same thing, but having other people hear that and I was just fortunate to have him, Sean Troy Johnson, a few people to saying hey, you know, you should go for this and you should now let other people hear it. And I think once that came about my partner, Oscar Santalo, who initially started together, we went back and forward it on PGY1 but never gained traction. In PGY2 we gained a little bit more traction, and I made the first episode. And then it’s like, hey, I’ll do the next one. So it became this kind of back and forth to where I made the first one, we listened to it, it was fine. And then the next step was for him to do it. And then I had a little bit more time to be able to get to the next step. But I think those were our first action items. And I thought that I didn’t think it would lead to what it did. But I think just getting started and having some type of MVP is really what it being just having an MVP to start with. Now everything I do, I tried to create an MVP. But I think the first episode, and that was what, Brian Gilbert on antiquated reversal, back 2019? And its 2018. And that kind of lit to what it is today. But I think just getting that first MVP and having someone to push me, because traditionally, I wouldn’t have went through all the steps because my first episode took 16 hours to edit.

Tim Ulbrich 16:08

I remember those well. And I’ll occasionally throw back on, you know, episode one, just remember the journey. And, you know, but it’s a great reminder, I’ve mentioned on this show several times the book Start by Jon Acuff and I think your journey and story is such an important one that, you know, the dots aren’t always in a straight line. And the key is, when we take that first step, you know, we might have a loose idea, often not of what might be steps two, three, four and five, but it’s really through that first step that, you know, things start to happen, where in this case, your meeting a learning objective, you know, you sat down, you did the recording, obviously, there was some nudging in that process, you know, eventually it’s okay, we’re gonna edit this, we’re gonna share this, you know, and then they start snowballing. And obviously, through there, you start to build community, get feedback, validate the idea and start to evolve this into a business. And I’m so glad you mentioned mentorship, because it’s a critical reminder, for all our listeners out there that are precepting students, residents, fellows that are educators that, you know, sometimes we see something in someone, and it’s not until we can really slow down and have some of those in depth meaningful conversations that we can really help, you know, be the gentle nudge to help them – that learner – see something that may, they may not even see themselves. And that’s really what I heard, you know, in your journey, that your RPD saw something in you that perhaps, you know, naturally as a resident, you may not always see in the moment. And I love that right, because I think that’s, that’s true for many, many stories, many journeys, where we can reflect back on a mentor, I’m thinking of several, as you’re talking that were so influential, and just action steps that I took, that led to other things, but it wouldn’t have been without their mentorship and encouragement from the start.

Jimmy Pruitt 17:52

Absolutely.

Tim Ulbrich 17:54

So Jimmy, if I’m following your journey correctly, your five plus years in as a creator with the podcast, creating content, three years or so with the Acute Care University, we’ll talk about the conference here in a little bit as well. And you’re still working full time in clinical practice. Talk to us about your decision to stay full time in practice, as you’re trying to also grow a business and what value that’s provided and challenges, I would presume as well.

Jimmy Pruitt 18:23

It’s been unique, I would say, one of the things that we looked at is making sure I’m at that number, and making sure I don’t make the mistakes that I’ve seen other people do. And more importantly, make the mistakes that I’ve read about. The biggest thing that people say is like sometimes you have to just jump and you just have to do all these different things. And I’m like, I have a family, one. So that really kind of changes the dynamic. It’s not just me making this big shift, but I want to make sure that I was able to consistently get that number. And early on I end up saying once I’m able to make you know, one and a half times my my salary consistently, and my business can continue to function smoothly, then it will be a conversation of what I do from a full time standpoint. But I’ve noticed as I continue doing both of this, me being a business owner and being very focused as being the president, CEO, whatever the title you want to give yourself when you’re when you’re starting out, it actually made me a better employee. That was very unusual because I started going to work and said, Okay, understand the objectives that I’m trying to do, and understand how, what it feels like to have someone work for you. Yeah, and be able to accomplish these goals. So when I have conversations with the board and with the administrators at my hospital, I’m asking the question, Hey, what are the KPIs that we’re trying to understand? And they’re like, What are you you’re a clinical pharmacist? I said listen, I can solve many problems. I realize the problems that you’re going to care about. And more importantly, I realize the problems that the person that report to you is going to care about. I’m going to help save people lives. I work in emergency department. That’s my fulfillment. How can I make this a, you know, a symbiotic relationship to where I get the resources that I want, but I’m also getting the things that you want me to get. So from that perspective, being a better employee has made it more enjoyable, because now I’m able to go in and solve problems and be able to find different things and have conversations that before I started being, you know, heavily involved in my company, I didn’t understand all the problems. I didn’t understand those problems. So as I looked at the component of making sure I’m meeting that output, that I need to be able to consider stepping back, I also realized there was so much more value, because now I’m able to understand other people’s problems. And it makes me say, Hey, I may want to do this for a little bit more, because I’m able to do consultant work now where I can get brought in as a consultant for and ED pharmacotherapy, find different problems, and then say, Hey, I’ve done these things now, at certain institutions, and it opens up more doors for me at this point in my career, and I just don’t think that I initially thought that. Because I think everyone who goes into business initially thinks, oh, I’m going to work for myself, it’s gonna be great. I can wake up when I want to. It takes quite a while. But I’ve enjoyed the process. And I think as I look at all these things, what having a business and working full time has allowed me to do is cut a lot of this the skin out of my life when it comes to tasks that I don’t necessarily need to do. And it’s made it easier for me to focus on family, focus on activities, I want to focus on health. So I think having both of those has kind of put me in a position to where I have to stay very focused and enjoy, pick the things that I want to enjoy, and to glean different insights from situations knowing that there will be a transition at some point, yeah. But learning more at the job and understanding the problems that they have, and other people like them have, has made me be able to understand the market, and how I can potentially use that in the future. But more importantly, my skills as a business owner, has allowed me to be able to solve problems that early in my career, and earlier, you know, in places I’ve been people don’t necessarily think about. So yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. There’s challenges, of course of not being able to take significant breaks and being able to have days where you just do nothing. But I think realistically, the continuation of doing it and seeing some benefits allow me to be able to do both, and be able to enjoy both. Because now I walk into the ER I don’t have to be a CEO today. I could just focus on this component and is vice versa. So I’ve enjoyed it. It’s helped with burnout. But I’ve really enjoyed the process.

Tim Ulbrich 22:52

A few things you said there that I love, Jimmy, that are worth highlighting, you know that the patience that I hear there, the intentionality in your thought process. You talked about a certain multiple of income one and a half times and you know, that that’d be in a place where maybe the conversation starts to shift, obviously, you and your situation – everyone’s entrepreneur journey is different, right. And I think there’s sometimes there’s this blanket, kind of advice or blanket type of idealism around entrepreneurship, which is like, jump in, and you’ll figure it out. You know, and it’s like, you know, for some people, that is their story. It’s not my story, wasn’t your story. But for some people it is. And I think for everyone’s situation, you know, it’s different. And some of the things you said really resonated with me as I had some crossover from full time work and the entrepreneurial journey. And it was several years in before making that transition. But the connection between, you know, the entrepreneurial journey and becoming a better employee, I felt that. I felt like I brought more skills to the workplace. I felt like it prevented burnout, right, some of the change in pace and environment and work and, and I think there’s something to be said, too, when you’ve got, you know, the business that’s growing, and all of a sudden your employment becomes this place of opportunity and learning and growth like, wow. I would argue Jimmy’s probably that much better of an employee and an asset. Like you’re you’re not dependent necessarily in that moment on that income, you know, as you’re building something else, and you’re able to really bring the value to the workplace, you know, that you can bring. So I think a lot a lot of wisdom there that you shared, as well as just continuing to build build the skills. Jimmy, as you have grown from content creator to solopreneur, to now building out a team. And we’ll talk again about you know, the conference here in a little bit in the logistics and all that’s involved, my mind is spinning partly because I’ve been through this journey as well. And I know that with that growth, comes fruit and comes challenges as you look into building a team and delegating and letting go. Just talk to us about that journey. I think it’s something we don’t hear enough about, as we often hear maybe more solopreneur type of stories but as you have grown and you built the team, what has been and some of the fruit what have been the challenges of that?

Jimmy Pruitt 25:02

I think when looking at growing a team and really get into that first step of, I want to bring someone else into this, especially when you’re talking full time employment. The very first employee that I hired a couple of years back was just my virtual assistant. And one of the first aspects I realized was a very big challenge of mine was, how do I explain what’s in my head that I do every day? I didn’t realize how challenging that was going to be, until I started assigning tasks and realized that that wasn’t necessarily what the output that I wanted. And I realized that it wasn’t necessarily the employee’s fault. It was really how I was able to give information and how I was how detailed I was able to be about what’s the purpose, how to get there. And then SOPs and having templates and all those things that people talk about that are not, the cool thing to think about are so valuable. And what it allows, it allowed me to do is be able to communicate more efficiently. When I first got into pharmacy, what are the key things that was very, you know, self conscious about my ability to communicate, because again, I grew up inner city kid, again, not necessarily being around many college educated people. Again, I’m one of like, six high school graduates in my family. So the way I communicated, it was, again, very different than the way I communicate on a daily basis now. It was something that was a very limiting factor for me. And I realized that I had to figure out a way to communicate better. And I really, I love to talk, I love to kind of do these different things. But as many people can probably hear, I have a Southern sudden tone, I still, you know, speak in a particular way. And I realized that in order for me to work better with other people, especially on diverse set of people, I need to translate that, translate that and technology has been phenomenal. Being able to voice to text has been the best feature I’ve ever had. So that took the initial challenge of communicating exactly what I wanted to my first employee. And it kind when I went back and edit it and went back and forth, that changed everything. Then going from there to next step was figuring out how can I not spend all of my time not doing this, in the next step was reading different books, educating myself as a, Hey, have that employee have them make the template. You know the output that you want, you know, what’s quality work for you now have them do that. And I think once I’ve transitioned from being the only person that produce the output, to try and to explain that and figuring out better ways to explain what I want to allowing the person who I’ve been working with now for over two and a half years to make the template because they do it well. That was a very long process. But I think it was one of the more unique and impactful things that I’ve learned through this process. And it went from a major challenge to being something now that I consider to be a very, you know, streamlined process. And now bringing other people on has been a lot easier because I have something and a have that he can I can show them as an output, but I can also provide them now templates, SOPs and things of that nature. So I think that’s one aspect that many people don’t speak of, or think about, but the books are out there, people don’t speak on it, and think about enough when they’re starting a business. And I everything you do, guys, if you possibly can record yourself, speak through it, dictate it and do it once. So you can always be able to reference back to it. That’s the one thing I would like to tell people and then realizing that you have to take some level of consideration depth that everyone is not going to do it the same way you do it every single time. You have to create a process that allows for them to get close, I say 75% as good as you are on a consistent basis.

Tim Ulbrich 29:02

That’s really good stuff, Jimmy. I’ve had similar experiences and I think often people run up into, you know, barriers where they start to grow, they might hire a contractor to hire employees, they run into some of the frustrations you experienced. You know, I think we’re you push through it, often people may retract and kind of fall back into this solopreneur model, which again, everyone’s build something for different reasons, different goals. But as you continue on this vision, being able to accomplish the vision you have will depend on Hey, what time, what tasks need to get done beyond that that Jimmy can do within a day which requires a team and processes and all the things that you mentioned. You’re sharing reminded me of the book, procrastinate on purpose by Rory Vaden. He talks about, you know, exactly this concept of, you know, could you do the task in 10 minutes, that’s going to take you you know, five hours, you document you could. but there’s a certain return on time investment Right, if if you do a repetitive task five times a week, that takes you 30 minutes, sure, it’s gonna take you a lot longer to train someone to get to the quality that you want. But over enough repetitions, especially those recurring tasks, if you can fight through that, you’re gonna have a lot long term benefit of the return on time. And so I love the share that you had there, I think is a great example of that. I want to ask you to zoom out on your business for a moment. And I think it’s sometimes it’s hard as the CEO, as the person who’s operationalizing, at times in the weeds, you’re in the midst of planning for a conference, I’m sure there’s tons of logistics things that are moving, it’s hard to zoom back out to that 20,000 foot view to say, Where are we going? And why are we going in this direction? And so, Jimmy, as you zoom out and look at all the things you’re doing across the content, and the podcast, the PACU, the conference, the various educational products, the offerings that you have, what’s the five to 10 year vision? Where do you see the growth going, as you look at all these things you started and now you move into this this next phase of growth?

Jimmy Pruitt 31:10

That’s a great question. And I do this every once a while and I had to force myself usually, every every quarter, I tried to do it. Sometimes better than others. The big thing that I believe that I’m trying to accomplish over again, this next five to seven years is to make this to where we have one unified goal and mission we’re trying to do: provide high quality education related to pharmacotherapy. How do I go from many different products, many different services, many different things to one umbrella company that can be operationalized by other people consistently and provide that value that we started out with, and, and being okay, not knowing each individual step to get there. So I would love to say in in five years that I’m in a position where I’m sitting on a few boards, I am the one who makes the final checkoff. But I want other pharmacists that have this, this passion, to be able to impact people through education, to be able to monetize their expertise to have a home. And I don’t necessarily feel that there’s a huge home for that now, there’s opportunities to volunteer your time, there’s opportunities to be part of other organizations, things that nature, but I believe that there’s I should say, there’s not an abundance of homes for pharmacists, and those who engage in pharmacotherapy to share, monetize their expertise. I want to provide a home for those individuals and I want I want them to be able to have a home, whether they’re gonna be the consumer, or the producer. I think that those is the things that push me forward and figure out how can I add more people to my team to add that passion? How can I make sure that we do this, and I feel good about it, because at the end of all of this, the one main thing that’s going to happen is improved patient care. So for me, when I think my business perspective on that, I feel much better knowing that the very, very end end goal and very in any user of this, the recipient of all the things we’re doing is going to be someone getting the right drug at the right dose at the right time. And doing it in the right way. Yeah, so for me, I want to provide a platform that I’m leading, or that I’ve led, that’s going to be able to influence patients by those who expertly use pharmacotherapy.

Tim Ulbrich 33:42

What I love about that we haven’t talked too much about that on this episode is I’m a firm believer in having a strong anchor in your business of a why behind everything you’re doing, because through the ups and the downs, you’re going to have to rely on that anchor. And when you talk about everything pointing towards improved patient care, wow, that connects all the dots of everything we’ve been talking about, right? Because building a team, delegation, getting comfortable with that space, and, you know, may not always be done the same way that you do it in here community! Community of the consumer. Community of the Creator. Like, wow, the urgency of that is important, right? Because that’s all aligned towards being able to have more people in this community, creating in this community, as well as getting information and benefiting from the community, all pointing towards improved patient care. Like that, I just hope everyone hears that that is thinking about an idea or has a business that when you have that type of compelling torch of a vision and a flame. It provides so much clarity. I’m not saying it’s gonna be easy. It provides so much clarity of where are you going and why are you going there and that is so critical when you’re building something and not every business can say that. To have that type of clarity of vision and that type of clarity of messaging. I love that. Absolutely love that. Let’s talk about the Empower RX Conferene coming up April 26-27th in Charlotte, I’m really excited about our collaboration surrounding this event. I’m looking forward to have the opportunity to meet your community there live in Charlotte. And I suspect that we have several listeners that have different areas of clinical expertise that maybe are in acute care and are going to be attending the event. Maybe they’re brainstorming other educational opportunities in their own niche. So tell us more about the event. How did it get started? And how is it evolved to the current state?

Jimmy Pruitt 35:27

Absolutely. EmpowerRx has been just another brainchild of wanting to improve patient care. But realizing again, we sort of go back a couple years ago and realize the history of emergency medicine. Again, we had three PGY2s in emergency medicine back in 2004. I’m starting one this, we’re over 119, I believe, in 2020. So I think as we look at the number of the growth that’s there, we realized that not every aspect of emergency medicine pharmacotherapy has been able to catch up. One of the areas that I remember mentioning, as we made Pharm So Hard was that there wasn’t a place for us to come together, hang up talk about just emergency medicine, versus just having a 10 minute Pearls or just having a 60 minute session with a few presentations. That was you know, spread out dispersed amongst the major organizations, they’ve done a phenomenal job of providing resources, and helping us grow the specialty. But I wanted to provide a place that it was very unique to emergency medicine pharmacists. And if you know anything about us, if you’ve had, if any listeners are part of, you know that you have to be a certain type of personality to consistently work in emergency department. And I wanted to provide a space for that. So I remember sending a text message to Kyle Wendt, he was he was at MUSC at the time, and saying, hey, what if we just created our own conference? And what if we just made it to where it was? It was like, it wasn’t like any other from a professional standpoint, what if you just you didn’t wear dress clothes? What if you didn’t come there at a tie, you came there and a T shirt, some jeans, and you just was having a good time. And we just spent all day talking about things that really impact emergency medicine pharmacotherapy, whether it was clinical, or whether it was the social components. There’s a lot of things that happen in emergency medicine on a day to day basis that there’s it’s not in the textbook. You don’t know how to have the interaction with the one mean nurse. You don’t know how to, you know, make sure that you’re able to think quickly when that patient comes in, that’s unannounced. We want to provide a place where we can talk about those things. But also, can we be ourselves the same way we are at the bedside. Because many ER pharmacists will tell you, when we go to the actual pharmacy area, there’s a certain persona that we we uphold when we talking to our superiors. And there’s what happens in the ER when we spend the majority of our time with nurses, physicians, EMTs things that nature. So I wanted to provide that environment, that community. And we sent this out in 2020. And we want to figure out, how can we do it as for us and by us, instead of someone else creating it and thinking they know what we want. Why don’t we just create it from the ground up? And that really was the initial phase of this. And it led to us being able to create an environment where we speak on many aspects of acute care pharmacotherapy, particularly again, the resuscitation part of it. So whether you’re a central pharmacy that responds to cardiac arrest, we have information there for you whether you’re a nurse who just happened to be interested in the drug component, we have something for you. So I think we are a emergency medicine pharmacotherapy conference. And we’re not necessarily a EM pharmacist conference in a say. So I think it kind of brings together our world in one place over two days, and the initial one was going to be virtual, because again, COVID definitely has something to do with that. And then last year, partnering with SAEM. And we got to see a sense of it. But I think that the next phase was okay, we keep saying that we’re for us, and by us, we have that everywhere. This is the first year we’re going to do everything completely in person, have some virtual access and completely be for us and by us and we grew our team tremendously to build something that again, it’s for all of us. And when I say us, that can be a physician, that can be a nurse, that can be anyone in that space, but you now have a home to discuss pharmacotherapy.

Tim Ulbrich 39:24

I’m really excited to experience it. I’ve been to many, many pharmacy conferences, but I’m sensing there’s something different, something unique about this, and I can’t wait to be a part of it. Hopefully the emergency medicine folk will allow me into the room. It’ll be a good, good, good chance to interact. And I’m really looking for it’s another great example to me, Jimmy, of something that, you know, you obviously had interest built up in a community and following at the point of when you launched that first one, but you still had to take that first step, right. And sometimes that means success. Sometimes that means failure and certainly you’re going to learn and grow from it. And I can hear the evolution that the conference has taken the last several years. So really looking forward to being a part of that. And I just as we wrap up, Jimmy want to say I admire and I mean this wholeheartedly admire, what you’ve built, why you’ve built it, how you built it. I love the niche focus. I love the clear messaging you have, there’s a strong sense of community. And there’s a strong anchor back to the vision of why that you’re doing and that that is the recipe for success in my mind as people are thinking about building a business. So, Jimmy, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show. I appreciate it.

Tim Ulbrich 40:29

As we wrap up today’s episode, let me remind our acute care healthcare listeners about our partnership with the 2024 Empower Rx conference, a leading event and emergency medicine pharmacotherapy. This year, it’s happening in Charlotte, North Carolina on April 26, and 27th. I’ll be there and hope to see you there as well. It’s ideal for pharmacists, physicians, PAs, nurses and others in the field. The Empower RX conference offers more than 10 CPE credits, insights from top experts interactive workshops, and groundbreaking research. It’s not just a conference, it’s a community focused experience fostering learning and networking in a welcoming environment. Take advantage of discounted registration available to the YFP community by using code YFP2024 for 15% off. Again, that’s code YFP2024 for 15% off you can join in person or virtually register now at EmpowerRx-conference.com and elevate your emergency medicine skills. Again, that’s EmpowerRx-conference.com.

Jimmy Pruitt 40:29

Thanks for having me on, Tim.

Tim Ulbrich 41:32

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/ disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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YFP 194: How Karine Used Her Pharmacy Skills to Create a Successful Healthy Dessert Business

Posted on March 11, 2021November 2, 2022 by yfpadmin

How Karine Used Her Pharmacy Skills to Create a Successful Healthy Dessert Business

On this episode, sponsored by Insuring Income, Karine Wong, pharmacist, educator, and entrepreneur, joins Tim Ulbrich to talk about her journey starting My Guiltless Treats. Karine discusses how she uses her pharmacy skills in her entrepreneurial journey, how to determine whether or not a business idea is worth pursuing, why it is so important to have a clear purpose and vision, and why saying ‘yes’ is so crucial when starting and running your own business.

About Today’s Guest

Dr. Karine Wong spent her entire pharmacy career in the hospital pharmacy. She worked as a staff pharmacist, director, and clinical coordinator. Over time, she became frustrated about the lack of compliance with her diabetic patients. After countless hours of counseling at the bedside, the patients would return in a few short months with the same problem; uncontrolled diabetes. In 2013, Karine and a colleague had an idea to make protein candies. The idea seemed intriguing; simple and yet revolutionary. The company could provide a viable, sustainable solution to the non-compliant diabetic patient. By 2018, Karine has led My Guiltless Treats on a successful journey to popularity, sustainability, and profitability. To date, My Guiltless Treats is the only company that specializes in healthy desserts.

Summary

Karine Wong, pharmacist, educator, and pharmacy entrepreneur, joins Tim Ulbrich to discuss her pharmacy career, how she’s used her pharmacy skills on her entrepreneurial journey, and how she’s built a successful business, My Guiltless Treats, by going above and beyond the usual standards.

Karine has also learned how to determine if a business idea is worth pursuing and outlines practical benchmarks to evaluate when starting a new venture. She explains that great ideas can turn into great businesses if they can solve a problem that you care about and are passionate about, solve a pain point, have a market (with or without competition), and help people on a large scale.

Additionally, Karine shares her personal experience with the power of being positive, how the act of saying ‘yes’ can have a huge impact on your business, and practical ways to say ‘yes’ in your own business practices. Business owners, aside from providing free product (if the business can afford it), can also provide knowledge and time in various forms to their customers, building relationships that may potentially turn into lifelong sales.

Mentioned on the Show

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich: Karine, thank you so much for taking time to be on the show.

Karine Wong: Hi, Tim. How are you?

Tim Ulbrich: I am doing well, excited to have you on. We had a chance to meet virtually a few weeks ago and had an opportunity to learn a little bit about your pharmacy career as well as the work that you’re doing with My Guiltless Treats and said, “Hey, we need to get this in front of the YFP community,” as I know many folks may have an idea that they’re wondering about, whether it’s a business idea, a side hustle idea, and I think featuring other pharmacy entrepreneurs is really an opportunity for them to see examples of what others are doing out there. So let’s first start with your pharmacy education and career. Why did you go into pharmacy? Where did you go to pharmacy school? And what type of work have you done in pharmacy throughout your career?

Karine Wong: I went to pharmacy school right out of high school, straight into University of the Pacific in southern California and endured a 5-year program, the accelerated program to be a PharmD at the end of 5 years. By the end of the 5 years, I really loved the clinical field. I actually wanted to be a doctor at that point, but at that point my parents decided not to support me anymore. So I was stuck being a PharmD. That’s OK. At the time, pharmacy was — it’s a world that can be anything you want it to be. You can be a CVS pharmacist, a Kaiser, nuc pharmacy, ambulatory care. It was — the world’s your oyster. I chose to stay in the hospital field. I felt that was the best place for me to be surrounded by the greatest minds of Edison. And so I stayed in hospital pharmacy when I graduated in 1999. And I have worked up the totem pole. So I was a (inaudible) pharmacist, worked up to outpatient pharmacist, did some floating here and there, became a director of pharmacy at one point but stayed put as a coordinator, which is a fancy word for clinical manager. So I was in charge of all the PMT minutes, agenda items, formulary additions, deletions, and in these settings. I also got the precep student from West University for 8 years and I’ve also participated in rounds with the teaching staff of the hospital. So I’ve always been in academic settings in terms of the hospitals. I was always teaching nurses or students, interns or residents and pharmacy students. So that’s pretty much my journey. Always learning.

Tim Ulbrich: Always learning, which is a good connection to business. And we’re going to talk a little bit about how your pharmacy career has played a role in the work that you’re doing in running your own business. So My Guiltless Treats — and we’ll link to that in the show notes for folks so they can learn more, check out the website, learn about the products that you offer — give us the 20,000-foot view. What is My Guiltless Treats all about?

Karine Wong: My Guiltless Treats is not something I intended to start at all. If you had told me 20 years ago I would start a business, I’d laugh in your face. I’d be like, no, no, no, I’m going to live and die in my pharmacy office. That’s what I thought I would do. Kind of changed now, I think I got burn out in pharmacy. I was really good at what I was doing, and I was writing codes, I was helping the pharmacy staff with all the difficult cases we had at our hospital. When 2008 rolled around, I took some time off to give birth to my child and I came across this fitness director who wanted to increase my protein intake. But it did not taste good. And she complained about why does it taste awful? Now, as a pharmacist, I thought, that’s kind of funny. I don’t take protein myself, but don’t you think it’s odd that we can make steroid solution taste really great but we can’t make something as simple as protein taste better?

Tim Ulbrich: Right? Yeah.

Karine Wong: So I told her, I can make it for you. I’ll make you a protein candy. And that’s how My Guiltless Treats came to fruition. I did create a product that was a delicious treat. At the end of the 5 years of working with her with RMD and sales, we decided to split up. She went to pursue a different career path, but I stayed on board. The original treat that we had, they’re actually protein gummies, was not scalable. It wasn’t something that people wanted to buy. We had no sales to warrant the continuation. We had people who loved it, but it wasn’t like a lot to justify a $50,000 investment into buying a million gummies, OK? That’s a lot of gummies to sell. It’s almost like two pallets. And it wasn’t scalable, it wasn’t something that we could sell. So she took off, which is fine, but I stayed on with the company because I still believed it had so much potential for it. So I looked at Guiltless Treats as a vehicle to deliver treats or desserts to diabetics, to those who really need it. And this Aha! Moment came back to me when I was working at the hospital. I remember counseling at the bedside and doing diabetic teaching to our patients diagnosed with diabetes, and I would teach them how to use insulin and the syringes. One gentleman stuck in my mind because he was very noncompliant, his A1C was double digits. I had to tell him, “OK, senor, no more bread, no more rice,” and he said, “OK, I would love to do it. But senorita, I want my bread. I want my (inaudible) bread. I want that.” And I looked at him and go, “OK, I guess I’ll see you in 3-6 months,” you know? Right? What can I do? He told me he’s noncompliant. He’s not going to change. He gave me a dare. He said, “Unless you can tell me something that is good for me and delicious, I’ll eat that.” And I had no answer for him. That was the Aha! moment. That was the moment I realized, oh my gosh, he’s right. So I go downstairs, and I ask my dietician friends, my physician friends, “What do you tell patients what can they eat that’s good?” And you know what they all told me while they’re eating their Twinkies and their Ho-Hos, “You tell them to eat their kale.”

Tim Ulbrich: Oh gees.

Karine Wong: Quinoa’s good, brown rice is supposed to better. This is what they’re telling me. But they weren’t eating it. And I’m thinking to myself, OK, that’s — I can’t use that, OK? Because they don’t know how to make kale salad or quinoa rice. They don’t know how to do that. It’s not part of their culture. So I was up against the wall. So when my fitness instructor friend mentioned the protein gummies, I thought, that actually sounds interesting because I can take out the sugar and replace it with another macronutrient like protein. So even though the gummies didn’t come to fruition, there was a point to make the treats. There was a reason for it. I needed to make something for that gentleman. I needed to make a dessert, something that he can have that doesn’t taste medicinal, that doesn’t use artificial flavors or sweeteners, something that he can grab at the store, not have to make it, not have to thaw it or bake it but can eat it right out like a protein cup. So aha! Six months later, after intense RMD, I created or actually made a version of my own kind of pork bun, (inaudible) a type of dessert similar to flan or custard. It’s very soft in texture. I don’t use (inaudible) cream or eggs or gluten or milk. I just use coconut cream, which is better for you, doesn’t cause the same problems as animal fat. And I layer over real mango, pineapple, or guava. So it’s a tropical dessert. And then I fortify the dessert with protein from the protein. But it’s also filtrated, so there’s no lactose, there’s nothing that will make you bloated. I deliberately made my products allergen-free. I took the top seven allergens that we see in the States and took them away, so nuts, there’s no seafood, there’s no tree nuts, stuff like that. I avoid that. Coconut is not considered a same nut as a tree nut, so it’s OK to use that. And yeah. I’ve been successful with the panna cotta desserts, people love it, it’s a thing now. People know me as the kind of the panna cotta lady. I’m the only one that makes it. And I make it healthy. So it’s the only dessert that you can find that’s actually good for you. So you can eat it instead of your ice cream at nighttime, you can eat it instead of yogurt at breakfast or like my friends at the hospital, they eat it during their shift. So when they have a long shift, the protein sustains them for the entire 10-hour shift that they have. So it’s a great option for everybody. You don’t have to be diabetic or pre-diabetic to enjoy it. You could be anyone. It’s just a dessert that’s healthier. Other manufacturers can’t do that because they put lots of sugars in their products. They don’t really know what we know as pharmacists. And that’s why being a pharmacist really helps your product if you’re going for the food industry. Because you know so much.

Tim Ulbrich: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. That makes sense. And one of my favorite stories, Karine, from our conversation several weeks ago was, you know — and get the story right if I have it wrong, but you had mentioned at the gift shop of the hospital, you know, this being distributed and sold and how quickly it would come and go and that you knew you were onto something in terms of folks that obviously appreciated the product, the quality of it, and certainly those that could benefit from it from a health perspective as well. And it has me thinking, you know, we’ll take a little bit of an aside here, but many folks may be listening that have an idea, right? And so you had an idea of something that could be done better. You mentioned the protein gummies, which ultimately didn’t come to its full fruition. So what ultimately does make a good idea? As you’re thinking of this not only with your own business here and other experiences you’ve had but also potentially advising and giving input to other folks that have business ideas, what makes a good idea? What’s the framework in which you think of what is this idea and does it actually have viability going forward?

Karine Wong: That’s a great question. And I’m going to say lots of time and energy because I could break it down for you in this way. I actually have a lot of students or mentees that I work with who have ideas, and ideas come in and out of your mind all day long. Doesn’t mean you act on every single idea. So what makes a good idea, an idea that you probably want to sit on. First, the idea that you have, whether it’s a service or a product, should be there to solve a problem. And the problem could just be just to you, but if you find that this problem bugs you — let’s suppose that it bugs you that every year, your smoke alarm will run out of batteries and always at 2 o’clock in the morning, right? Every night.

Tim Ulbrich: Amen.

Karine Wong: I don’t know how they do it. And that’s the night that you can’t sleep, that’s when you jolt out of bed with almost an MI because it’s like, beep, beep, and it won’t stop, especially if you have like 5 in your house and you don’t know which one it is, right? What if that’s a problem for you? If it’s a problem for you, it’s a problem for someone else and probably many others that have smoke alarms. No. 2, if you could develop a product like a battery or a monitoring system that tells you when your battery is low, like if you can find a way to make an app that bluetooths the battery life to your smoke alarm, that would be superb. And you don’t have to physically make the app, you just have to hire someone that can code it for you. You tell them what you want, and they make it for you. It’s pretty simple. But you have to have the idea, you have to do the research and find out is there a market for it. So if I know every house in the United States has to have smoke alarms, right? That’s a law.

Tim Ulbrich: Yep.

Karine Wong: No. 2, so the market’s very big. No. 3, does anyone make that besides you? Like is there an option out there? Now if there is, it doesn’t mean don’t do it. Just know that if there’s no competition, you have a more difficult road because you have to pave the road for yourself. You have to do all your market research and find out how to get the pricing down, find the right coder, for example, and get the best pricing for that. But if you have competition, follow them and see how are they doing it? OK? I’ll give you an example. Protein gummies was my first skew. We had three competitors. That was back in 2010. Today, they’re all defunct. Why? Because no one wanted protein gummies. Interesting. They all went bankrupt. We didn’t go bankrupt, we just changed our name. Going into No. 3, you have to find out if there’s competition or not. OK? No. 4, if it’s a good idea, it’s an idea that will come back to you the next day.

Tim Ulbrich: Yes.

Karine Wong: So an idea that’s OK goes away the next day. You don’t remember. You just like, eh, whatever. I don’t remember the idea. It just came and go. It didn’t stick around. But if the idea is awesome and you find there’s potential in it because of what you know, whether it’s a pharmacist or a handyman or living your house and hearing that every year, the smoke alarm chirping, then that idea will come back to you. And you’re like, you know what? I won’t let it go. I can’t let it go. Because it’s a really good idea. And that’s how you know. So those are four benchmarks. And just like when you sig a patient, check them off, right? Do you have a problem that you’re solving? Check. Can you make a service or a product that will solve it? Check. Competition, is there any? Check, yes there is. That’s fine. OK? That doesn’t stop you.

Tim Ulbrich: Yes.

Karine Wong: It just means that, hey, there’s a market for it because so many people have tapped into it. Now if there’s too many competitors, you might want to like not do it because it’s too hard. Like I would never go into the beverage market now because it’s so supersaturated. I would not go into the frozen industry because you know the frozen aisle is very coveted shelf space because it’s frozen. So I can’t get in there if I had the best tasting item ever. I could not break into that. And No. 4, like I said, if the idea comes back to you and you won’t let it go, then you have a really good idea.

Tim Ulbrich: I love that, Karine. Very tangible advice. Checklists, we like checklists. We like thinking about things in sequential order. And I think your comment that resonates — several things in there — but you know, multiple ideas that may come to focus doesn’t mean we need to act on every one. What I actually do at home, my wife and I like to brainstorm various business ideas. And we write them down on a legal sheet, you know, 8.5×11 yellow piece of paper. It’s in my office. And then what I find is some of those we keep talking about, right? We come back two days later, four days later, six days later, eight days later, even some of those we may determine for other reasons in your four steps aren’t viable. But those that we find we can’t let them go, like that means you’re at least at the beginnings of something that obviously is important to you. The other thing I think about here, Karine — I’d love your input — is I think folks often struggle with is this an idea that I really care about solving this problem and I have a solution that I’m going to be really passionate about? And is it financially viable? Am I after the money? Am I after the purpose and solving this problem? Or both? And what advice would you have with folks, you know — here as I hear your story, obviously at the end of the day, you’ve got to run a business but also something that you saw could have a tremendous impact on patients. It was a problem that needed to be solved. And so the concern that folks might be chasing becoming rich or having a home run of a product and how important it is to be passionate about the problem that you’re trying to solve.

Karine Wong: The way I look at it is your company is a baby. If you’ve lost interest in your baby, the company, literally dies. So imagine yourself, like you’re in charge and you decide, you know what, I’m going to take a break and do something else. Guess what? The company that you built falls apart. It may take awhile, but it will fall apart because you are the glue that holds it together. So you’re the why. Why are you doing this has to be something that you will use every morning you wake up, every morning you clock in, you turn on your recording or you reach out to people for your interviews, that is your why, why are you doing it. And if you say, “money because I want to be a millionaire,” or “be featured on Ellen, the show,” you’re going to have issues, OK? Because the likelihood of that is almost as high as winning the lottery. It’s very rare. Just like people who want to be on TikTok and they want to make it big. That’s pretty rare. What’s your why? It should be because you’re solving a problem that is important to you, that bugs you. And you want to solve it. We as pharmacists I consider are problem solvers. Right? We fix people’s ailments with drugs and we tailor their regimens. And so the same thing happens with products or services. If I could fix your life to be better, even by a little bit, hey, that’s so neat. That is your why. I love that I know that my products help those that are enduring chemotherapy or those with the canker sores from the chemotherapy or has protein loss because of dialysis or they just can’t eat because they’re kekectic, be able to thrive. Hey, my stuff is better than Ensure+. My stuff is better than most medicinal foods. So that’s my joy. That’s my why. And if I stop my company, those customers are affected. And that’s why I don’t stop. And there’s more than one person. There’s a lot. In fact, in about a month, I’ll be celebrating my milestone — I had to tell you this, Tim — but I’ll officially have sold 25,000 units.

Tim Ulbrich: Hey, congratulations.

Karine Wong: That is not an easy feat. And I did it in about 18 months, so that’s a lot of panna cottas.

Tim Ulbrich: That is awesome.

Karine Wong: Yeah, I mean, I’m sure if I was a big company that packs and manufactures it, I’m sure it makes a lot. But a single person by myself using pharmacist-grade benchmarks, yeah, it’s not easy. It takes awhile to do because I’m very picky. When I make products, I go beyond, beyond the food safety measures. OK? Food safety measures are pretty low, OK? It’s like, don’t put stuff in there like debris. Yeah, I get that. But I don’t put piologens in there. I don’t put bacteria in there. My stuff is vacuum-sealed, sterile, no piologens. It lasts for six weeks without any bacteria count of significance. And I do this with technicians in laboratories, so it’s all certified. OK? So I go beyond the scope of a food manager because I’m a pharmacist. I don’t want to give people stuff that — it’s not a liability, it’s more like what makes you feel good? I don’t want my patients — or not my patients, consumers, to eat something healthy and that’s not dirty or have full of debris or particulates. That’s our nature as pharmacists, right? So going back to your question about your why, yes, your why, my why is because I want to help people be on the medicine. I want to help people at the marketplace, give them teaching, counseling. I do more patient counseling now that’s more viable, that’s more significant to them, than I would have at CVS. Because CVS is very fast-paced and you only have so much time. But at the marketplace, I’ve got time and they’re much more open to me. So when I give them advice or valuable tips, they love it. And they get to go home with that, and that’s going to help them from this point on. So I give them a lot of hope and insight into their management of their disease state, whether it’s diabetes or eczema or Crohn’s Disease. I’ve heard it all, so I am able to talk on that not as their doctor but as a pharmacist. And they trust me in that. And so it’s not about sales, but they end up buying it because they like who I am and what I represent. So the why for everybody should be that you want to help people or you want to solve a problem. Those are the best whys you can have in your life. But if you’re going to say money or stardom or fame, you can still do it. I won’t stop you. But your journey every morning will be so much harder because it’s tough. And so if you’re hoping to be on Ellen’s show and every morning you wake up and you make 1,000 panna cottas, you might go, God, is it really worth it? You’re going to be tired. You’re going to be kind of burnt out real fast. And that’s why those are really not good reasons to start a business. I’ll give you an example, Tim. I actually had an investor that offered me lots of money to make CBD gummies. This is right when the legislature passed the state law that legalizes like CBD and marijuana for recreational use. And he asked me to make it. He said, “You’ll make millions of dollars.” And I believed him. I would make a million dollars. And I said no, not because I couldn’t do it, not because I didn’t want the money, because it’s not my jam. It’s not my why. I could not make CBD gummies because it’s not like I don’t think it works. I think it works great, I don’t think it matters how much money you throw at me, I wouldn’t do it. It just doesn’t make me happy. It doesn’t solve anyone’s problem — at least, it does solve a problem, but it’s not a problem that I want to solve. Does that make sense to you? It is a problem. But it’s not my jam, it’s not my passion to solve that problem or to help those patients. It could be yours, maybe someone else’s, so that’s what I did. I deferred.

Tim Ulbrich: So important. And I can’t echo enough of what you just said there. Even thinking of what we’ve been working on at YFP, hearing your story here, hearing other stories of pharmacist entrepreneurs that I’ve talked with, you know, having that motivation and a why of something that you care about, a problem that you care about, that you want to solve is so critically important to invest in the time and energy that’s going to have an impact. Karine, I want to talk for a moment about the gap between having an idea and from there, getting to a minimum viable product and perhaps from there, being able to actually grow and scale something. Big separation, big gap between having an idea and actually being able to grow that idea perhaps into its full potential. And I think pharmacists may hear your story or hear other entrepreneurial stories and hear from folks that have been successful, however you may define success. And for you, selling 25,000 units in 18 months, that’s overwhelming. You know what, I have this idea and I hear Karine talking about RND, about growing, scaling, manufacturing, hiring a team, wow. Maybe I should just stop pursuing my idea right now because that feels overwhelming. What advice would you have for folks that are listening that say, “You know what, I have this idea, and I just don’t know where to go from here.”

Karine Wong: The fear of pursuing an idea is very common. It’s not unusual to hear an idea or come up with one and go, you know what, it’s a good one, but nah. It’s not going to work. And to have self doubt because you’re afraid. And I think as pharmacists, we’re more risk-averse. So we don’t want to take chances on something that we don’t know much about. That’s understandable. There’s a few things that I do in my career and my company that help minimize that risk. First, when you hear an idea, obviously we don’t put every single penny we have towards every idea. But look at the idea that you’re thinking about. A good idea is the idea that will solve a problem that is going to affect many consumers, not just you, not just your family, but other pharmacists or other people in your industry or your role as a mother or father, some of the frustrations you see as maybe a student. And that is a problem that if you have had it, and other people have had it, then that’s a good market. That’s why. You check that box, that’s a pretty good market, a pretty good idea. Second, you have to create a solution. An idea basically tells you that we need something to help fix that problem. Your job is to find a solution, and whether it’s a product like my product, a dessert, a snack, a service, or even a device that you create, then that is what you need to come up with. And that’s probably what you’re talking about when it comes to the minimum viable product. It is a product or service that will bring in people to buy your product or service in exchange for money to solve that problem. And that is what investors look for is how good or awesome is your end EP. Many pharmacists always tell me, oh, I’m not creative or I don’t know how to make dessert or I’m not a baker, I’m not an engineer. Neither am I. But you are resourceful. You’re a pharmacist. So you can easily hire a coder to perhaps make a software app for an iPhone that would track down smoke alarms in your house and find out when that battery is going to run out. You can hire engineers to create a device for you. My whole point is that designing, creating a product doesn’t have to be a solo mission. In my case, it’s a solo mission because oh heck, we’re always into compounding in laboratories and we’re always making something. And I’m a mom, so I’m always baking new recipes. It’s a small experimentation. So you don’t have to be a chef or a professional engineer or a writer or anything like that to pursue a product or device or something that solves a problem. So that’s No. 2 is find a solution, create it. No. 3, now you’ve got to test it. You’ve got to find out if your market that you’ve identified, like the other moms in your area, the pharmacists in your industry, like what you’re selling. And I don’t mean people like your mom or your dad or your brother or sister or husband. They don’t really count. Not to say their opinions don’t matter, but they’re really nice and they love us. So they’ll say whatever makes us happy. You want to know if your friend of a friend of a friend is going to buy your product or MVP. So this is a person that doesn’t know you, has no connection with you, and is more likely to give you an honest opinion. If they’re willing to give you money in exchange for that service or product you’re providing for a problem that you both share, you have an awesome idea that is worth pursuing. With that being said, if you get like a thousand ideas in a given month, maybe one or two might be feasible or fit all of those check boxes. To me, the ones that really require more attention are the ones that stick around. I have a lot of ideas, and I don’t always move on every single idea. But if an idea comes back to me in two or three consecutive days or weeks, like I just can’t let it go, I dream about it, I obsess about it, I think about it when I’m running, now that’s an idea worth pursuing because your subconscious knows it’s a good idea, Karine, don’t let it go. It’s something worth pursuing. That’s why if you look at my bio, I do more than just My Guiltless Treats. I’ve actually written a book, I have created an app for pharmacy students to help prepare for the board exam and medical students to help with their SEP boards. So I’m not just limited to the role of pharmacy. I’m not limited to the food industry. If I feel there’s a problem, in which I did, I hire coders, I learn how to write, I hire editors, I had a publishing team that all helped me get to my purpose.

Tim Ulbrich: That’s great. And one of the questions, Karine, that I’m thinking of as you’re sharing your story is when I hear 25,000 units in 18 months, obviously you are solving a problem that people are interested in that are raising their hand to purchase, but you haven’t scaled nationally into large retailers, despite the opportunity being there to do so. And that has been an intentional move, as I understand it. So my question here is how and why did you arrive to the decision that you wanted to control your growth?

Karine Wong: There are two reasons why I chose to control my growth. In the food industry world, there’s a saying, you go hard in your backyard. That means that all your marketing, all your efforts to brand, to market, should be in your local region. It doesn’t make sense for me to let’s say get in Costco or Whole Foods nationally when I’m here in California. Nobody in Chicago or East Coast knows who Karine Wong or who the Guiltless Girl is or what panna cotta is that’s made of coconut cream. They don’t know. So it’s going to be a very hard sell. And now with COVID, it’s even harder because I can’t hire marketers to go out there to demonstrate the product. That’s the first reason is to always market your product in your area. If you’re able to do a service remotely, that’s a little different. But the point is that people are more likely to buy your product, buy my product when they know you, heard about you, seen the car, seen your Instagram posts and are more familiar. So in California, in Orange County, I am very popular as the Guiltless Girl. Selling product is very easy, I sell in a few stores, and they sell through it, which means that nothing is left over. They always run out. That’s a positive sign. I’d rather have those benchmarks than to be in let’s say 200 Whole Foods stores and sell 10% of what I stocked. There’s no glory in that. There’s no fame or money to be made when you’re only selling a little bit at those stores. And eventually, those stores will discontinue you because you could not show velocity in their stores. So that’s the first reason why you want to go hard in your backyard. And the second reason is that there has to be a balance. If all I did was My Guiltless Treats and nothing else, then yes, I would go national. I would go and find investors and get seed funding to go national. I would even go on Shark Tank because that’s all I got going on and my role is to go national. And I would actually hire a larger team and brokers to get those milestones. But I am not just the CEO of this company. I’m also a professor. I teach remotely for PharmD students for PGI West University and Yogi (?). So I’m busy with that, and I do love teaching pharmacy students. I’m also a pharmacist. I’m doing remote pharmacy from my home, and I’m a pharmacogenomics counselor. So there’s a lot going on my plate. So I’ve got to be home, and this is a good balance because I can spend maybe three days a week doing Guiltless work, including weekends, and the other days are spent doing teaching, being a parent, working out, kind of having time for myself. And the balance is fantastic because I’m very happy and I feel successful because I do make money. I have enough money to pay for my staff. I have enough money to hire people to design logos for me, I can basically sustain — the company is sustainable on its own. So that’s a sign of success. And I don’t need to make a million dollars from this. I just need to make it run on its own, which it is. And I need to have time for myself, my kids, my family, and teach. If I lost all that, there is no glory. There is no fame. So controlling growth is about finding a balance where you have time for yourself and your family and your other hustles and passions but also time for yourself and the company. It’s a balance, really. And you know, I’m OK making what I’m making right now. I am making profit. But yeah, I’m not a millionaire. And that’s OK. I’m very happy with what I’m doing. You’ve got to be OK with all those things. Other entrepreneurs, for them, it’s all about, I want to get in Costco, I want to get in Whole Foods, I want to be in all these Krogers and Vons. OK? That’s your jam. It’s not my jam. Just because they’re saying it and they want it and their business coach is saying it doesn’t mean it’s for you. So you have to look at yourself and your life and see is that for me?

Tim Ulbrich: That’s great wisdom, Karine. I would encourage folks, you know, to spend some time getting clear on your personal goals and why. In addition to what we’re talking about here today, which is the business goals and why, as Karine shared her personal goals, the balance obviously informed her business goals and the direction that she is taking with the business. And Karine, I’m glad to hear what you said about controlled growth. I think we have glorified the grind and hustle and working hard at all costs. Perhaps it’s the Shark Tank effect, you know, I’m not sure. But I think it’s a good reminder of us each individually thinking about what success may look like. So Karine, tell us about a lesson that you shared with me before we hit record, which was the power of saying yes. Tell us about for you and your journey, saying yes to folks, why this was so important, even recently, in terms of the value and the power of saying yes as a business owner.

Karine Wong: Being positive and affirmative is an attractant to other consumers. Consumers, when they buy a product or service, they’re not just buying a product or service, they’re buying from you. They’re buying you. They love you. They want to be in your life, they want to be engaged with you. If you’re negative or cheap or frugal or penny-pinching, they’re probably not going to come back to you. One of the things I adopt is generosity is key. If I can do it, I will, whether it’s emotional support, physical support, knowledge, expert advice, I’ll do it. I have no problem at all. I consider ourselves a drug expert. So if someone asks me a question randomly in the aisles of Target, I’ll be happy to help them. I have no qualms about holding back information because oh, I don’t work here or I’m on break or whatever. If you need help, let me help you. It’s better that I help you than for you to find the answer yourself on Wikipedia, which is not something I recommend. So when you say yes, the rule is this: Say yes to people if you can do it. For example, when you have a product or service and especially in the initial phases of the company, a lot of the times will be giving away product for free. And that may sound counterintuitive because you’re trying to make money. But the first couple years, you’re not going to make money. And your goal is to let people try your product, even if it means giving it away for free. Most people will not try a product and pay for it just to test the waters. It’s better for you to give it away for free, gift it, donate it, mark it as a tax writeoff on your income tax returns. And that allows people to try your product and go, you know what? She’s quite generous or he’s quite generous. They let me try it for free, there’s no contingency offers, there’s no like alternative motives. They’re going to feel warm and fuzzy with you. And they’re going to love the product because hey, you know, this is a good product. And I like it. And yeah, I would come back and ask for more and I would probably pay for it. So offering the first dose or first service or first product for free actually is a really awesome marketing idea if you could afford it. And usually, you can because you have the capital for that. If you can’t afford it, don’t do it. The other things you can offer for free would be your knowledge. If you know something, if you are very well read up on gluten diet, gluten-free foods or celiac disease or eczema and they’re going to shift to dairy, definitely talk about it. A lot of consumers will come up to me, once they discover who I am, they’ll open up their hearts and tell me their medical problems. So I know a lot about their eczema, rosacea, diabetes and other problems. And I’m happy to help them. And they feel pretty much open because I’m not timing them, I’m not charging them, I’m not going to ask for their medical insurance. And it’s a great exchange of information. So they value my input, and they usually walk away with a panna cotta, they usually walk away with something that I provide because they like who I am. So there’s the generosity of knowledge. The other thing you can offer is your time. You didn’t know this, but when the COVID hit, a lot of my colleagues were being fired for obvious reasons. So I offered free CV reviews because I have experience hiring pharmacists and technicians. I said, “Submit your resume to me and we’ll help brush it up.” And it was great because people were sending me — I actually opened up publicly to everyone in my community, my neighborhood, and all I could reach. And I got so much response, and people even said, “I liked it because I don’t know who you are, Karine, but I love it that you’re doing it,” so they were referring me, shared my post, and I didn’t charge them for it. I just wanted to look at their CVs, make recommendations, and I send it back to them. So I do it now for pharmacy students and those applying for residencies. Just my opinion, just make it nicer, cleaner. And usually I could find one or two errors, and they’re very appreciative. ‘Oh my gosh, I forgot to add this,’ or ‘Oh my gosh, I didn’t know I had to add a header or footer.’ Those are kind of core things you look at as a director because we get so many resumes for one position in a hospital pharmacy. So it helps to have page numbers and footnotes and lists of references instead of me asking for it. So those are little things that I want people to see what I see. That’s what I offer is my knowledge, time, free product if I can do it, free service. At the end of the day, it makes the consumer, the other person, just like you more, like your company more and guess what? All those people I helped the first few years of my career, of my business, have come back as repeat customers. So I didn’t charge them the first time, but guess what? They’re total lifetime revenue for one customer is well over $100. So is it worth it? Yes.

Tim Ulbrich: Great advice. And the resume service is a good example of serving others, whether it’s product, whether it’s time, you know, I think offering and bringing something valuable and serving others without necessarily a return in mind but just providing that value in the moment, we know reaps great benefits. So I think you articulated the value of saying yes well. I try to follow that advice from mentors I’ve received before. And it’s not about being reckless. I mean, as you mentioned, being the face of the brand, folks are looking for that energy, they’re looking for that enthusiasm, they’re looking for that we’ll figure it out type of mentality as you go along and build some of those relationships. Karine, I really appreciate the time that you’ve taken, the wisdom that you’ve shared. What is the best way for our audience to connect with you to learn more about your journey as well as to follow the work that you’re doing with My Guiltless Treats?

Karine Wong: Very simple, just go to MyGuiltlessTreats.com. On the very bottom of the home page is “Send a Message.” That goes straight to me. All of my emails and phone numbers and even an Instagram/Facebook, you can go onto My Guiltless Treats, it goes straight to me. I don’t believe in hiring a third party marketing agency for that because I want to engage my customers. So if you want to engage with me, just go straight on board to the website, email me, run by your ideas with me or any questions you have about possibly starting a company or a product, and we’ll talk about the feasibility of it. It’s better to rule it out or rule it in as early as possible before you need to put money towards the product or whatever.

Tim Ulbrich: Absolutely. We’ll link to the website in the show notes. We’ll link to some of the social media connection opportunities as well. And again, appreciate you taking the time, sharing your journey and your willingness to also support and encourage other pharmacy entrepreneurs that are out there. So Karine, thank you very much.

Karine Wong: You’re welcome. It was a pleasure, Tim. If you decide to come up with that smoke alarm app, you owe me 10% of the royalties.

Tim Ulbrich: You’ve got it. It’s a promise. Thank you.

Karine Wong: Thanks.

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YFP 137: How to Monetize Your Clinical Expertise

Posted on January 30, 2020November 2, 2022 by yfpadmin

How to Monetize Your Clinical Expertise

Diana Isaacs joins Tim Church on this side hustle edition to talk about her journey in becoming an expert in diabetes and how she has been able to monetize her clinical expertise through speaking engagements, advisory boards, consulting projects and CE articles.

About Today’s Guest

Diana Isaacs, PharmD, BCPS, BC-ADM, BCACP, CDE is the Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) Program Coordinator and Endocrinology Clinical Pharmacy Specialist at the Cleveland Clinic Diabetes Center. Her role includes clinical practice, teaching, and research. She provides medication management and runs a robust CGM shared medical appointment program.

Summary

Diana Isaacs shares how she monetizes her clinical expertise in diabetes on this side hustle edition.

Diana’s training after graduating college was in pharmacy practice and ambulatory care. She gained clinical expertise and took additional training to receive certifications and specializations. She fell in love with diabetes and started working more and more in the field. She now works as a Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) Program Coordinator and Endocrinology Clinical Pharmacy Specialist at the Cleveland Clinic Diabetes Center. Diana was recently awarded the 2020 AADE Diabetes Educator of the Year.

Her passion for diabetes is palpable and has allowed her to become an expert in the field. When she’s working at night on her side hustle as a clinical diabetes expert, she doesn’t feel as though she’s working but more that she’s doing a hobby she loves. She’s monetized her passion and expertise in several ways, including speaking engagements and presentations, advisory boards, consulting projects and CE articles and courses. She earns the most from honorariums which varies between $500 to $3,000/event. Advisory boards come in occasionally and bring in between $1,000 to $2,5000/board. Diana receives $500 to $4,000/CE article and if she works on a consulting project she usually earns $1,000 to $2,500.

The biggest reason for her success has been her willingness to say yes to opportunities and to reach out to organizations or conferences in which she’s interested in speaking.

Diana says it’s hard to quantify how many hours she works, however she makes it happen! Her side hustle has increased over time so she didn’t feel the brunt of working several additional hours on top of her day job at once. She has a very supportive husband that works part-time and is able to take on more with the children and household tasks. She works at night after her children go to bed but takes off Saturdays and Sundays when she can to make sure she’s present for her children and husband.

Mentioned on the Show

Refinance Your Student Loans
AADE (American Association of Diabetes Educators)
American Diabetes Association
Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell
Pharmacy Times
Power-Pak CE
Email Diana Isaacs: [email protected]
Follow Diana on Twitter

Episode Transcript

Tim Church: Diana, thanks for stopping for and for being part of this side hustle edition.

Diana Isaacs: Oh, you’re welcome. Thanks so much for having me.

Tim Church: I first want to congratulate you on your recent award. And that is the 2020 AADE Diabetes Educator of the Year. And this is an award that honors a diabetes educator who has made a special contribution to the field through dedication, innovation, and sensitivity in patient care. Now Diana, this is a really big deal, and I wanted to ask you, what does winning this award mean to you?

Diana Isaacs: Oh, well thanks. Yeah, it’s been a really exciting year. Winning this award has been tremendous. I mean, I’m so grateful to be recognized for it. And it’s definitely opened up a lot of opportunities for me in terms of it almost seemed like overnight, people were like, oh, she’s an expert in diabetes. And it’s given me a lot of new opportunities to pursue.

Tim Church: That’s great. And when was the last time a pharmacist won this award? Because this isn’t something specific to pharmacists. This is really anybody in the diabetes space.

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, that’s one of the things I really love about the organization AADE, the American Association of Diabetes Educators, is that it is, it’s a multidisciplinary. You’ve got nurses, nurse practitioners, DAs, exercise physiologists, you’ve got dieticians, you’ve really got everybody. And so it’s just — it’s really special I think to be recognized by all the different disciplines. And in terms of the last time a pharmacist, I think when I looked it was like 12 years. So it definitely had been a long time.

Tim Church: That is so cool. And it’s really awesome to see you being recognized because as we’re going to jump into, you really have done a lot for diabetes in terms of your scholarship activities and a lot of the committees and things that you’ve been on. So I’m excited to jump into that. But obviously getting this award is not something that happened by accident. So I want you to talk a little bit about your career path.
Diana Isaacs: Yeah, sure. So let’s see. Going all the way back, I graduated from SIUE, it’s about 10 — actually exactly 10 years ago now. I did a pharmacy practice residency with an emphasis in ambulatory care at the Philadelphia VA. And then I was really fortunate to get my first position as a clinical assistant professor with a practice site at the VA, getting to manage diabetes. And I think through that, I really was able to gain clinical expertise in managing different types of patients and seeing different types of things. And I pursued my certifications, like my CDE and the BCEDMs, I’m board-certified in advanced diabetes management. And really, I think one of the things that really stands out is I say yes. I definitely say yes to different opportunities and also seeking out whenever there was an opportunity to be able to speak at a meeting, whether a local program or anything, really trying to grow myself professionally.

Tim Church: So a lot of those opportunities, did you have to be very intentional about getting? Were some of those given to you?

Diana Isaacs: So that is a great question. So yeah, the golden ticket, right, is when you get one of those emails that says, “Hey, will you do this? And we’ll pay you all this money, and we’d like you to present here and write this.” Those emails come sometimes, and they have fortunately come more often since getting this award, but no. For the most part, I sought things out. When I saw that a meeting was accepting abstracts to be able to speak, I drew up an abstract and I submitted it. I, you know, submitted lots of proposals for lots of different things. I worked really, really hard. And some of the things stuck, and many times, they didn’t get accepted. But I kind of just kept trying.

Tim Church: And did you have any failures along the way when you submitted those proposals?

Diana Isaacs: Well, I don’t like to think of it as failure, right? Because you’re trying to think of it as you’re growing. But yeah, I like to think of it as like I throw 100 darts at a board, and two of them stick. And that’s great. I’ll pursue those two things. So yeah, I feel like I apply for lots of things. I’ve tried to really do a lot of different things and yeah, sometimes I don’t make it, they choose someone else, I don’t get it this time, but I just kind of keep trying. And I really try to keep my ears open for opportunities. That’s something I’ve been pretty good about paying attention, you know, sometimes you get those emails where it’s like, you can apply for this. Like for example, with the American Diabetes Association, they have these special interest groups. And I’ve been wanting to get involved with ADA, and so I applied for that. And I ended up being appointed as communication director for the pregnancy and reproductive health group. And that was just an opportunity that hey, I paid attention to my email, I filled out the application, I submitted it. And it worked out. So I think, you know, a lot of it is reading your emails and seeing what opportunities are out there.

Tim Church: At what point in your career did you realize that you had become an expert and really had authority in this space?

Diana Isaacs: So I don’t — I guess I’m still growing, and I like to think I’m still definitely growing and evolving and there’s so much to learn with diabetes that I don’t know if anyone is a full expert. But I think, you know, definitely earning this award this year has solidified some of my confidence. And I think over — especially in my current position, so right now, I’m at the Cleveland Clinic Diabetes Center. And I think in this space, I see such complex cases. I get to do so many cool things here that I think I just realized, you know, when I interact with other people that I am seeing a lot more, a lot more diverse things that I’m becoming an expert, I guess you could say.

Tim Church: So what would be some of the examples of complex cases or things that maybe most pharmacists kind of in an amb-care setting may not see every day?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, so I get to do a lot of work with the post-kidney transplant population. And that’s a lot of fun. So there, we do a bunch of kidney transplants there. And unfortunately, our patients were kind of falling through the cracks. That was a need when I came here, that they weren’t getting good glycemic management right after that transplant. It was hard to get into endocrinology. So that’s a service that I took on. And now I see a lot of those patients. And so it’s just, it’s very interesting because they’re on high dose steroids, they’re tapering over a month’s time, they just had a transplant so they’re acutely sick. Many of them, even if they didn’t have diabetes before, now they have steroid-induced hyperglycemia, and it’s really an art to it because there’s no specific protocols. It’s really every person’s different, and you have to very closely manage it. And then in addition to that, sometimes you see the pancreas-kidney transplant. Like I have a patient this week, she had it, and you know, you would hope, right, the dream is that if you get a pancreas transplanted, you don’t need insulin anymore. But it doesn’t always work like that. They call it like angry pancreas. Like it takes some time for that new pancreas to adjust. So then we have her on Metformin and like we’re trying to see, are we doing a DPP4 inhibitor and what else are we going to do? And so it’s just — man, it’s a lot of cool stuff, a lot of cancer patients, a lot of just everything, like post-bariatric surgery, hypoglycemia, people doing keto and de-escalating therapy, lots of CGM, diabetes technology, insulin pumps, just lots of cool stuff here.

Tim Church: So it sounds like that the providers are how they come in through the clinic, they’re like if they’re complex or it’s going to be difficult, we just send them to Diana. Is that pretty close to how it works?

Diana Isaacs: So I am so fortunate. I work with like the most amazing doctors, and I have an amazing, amazing team. So what I try to do when coming here — because I was the first full-time pharmacist put into the diabetes center — was I tried to find where would I be most useful? And some of the areas I recognized that were one, we were underutilizing diabetes technology, so like insulin pump adjustments and getting more patients on CGM. And then the kidney transplant need was really two areas where I decided that I would really be best utilized, and so those are kind of niches that I’ve I guess developed. But yeah, I try to be helpful wherever I can for the team.

Tim Church: That’s really cool, and I think those are obviously niche areas within diabetes itself, but through the organization that you work for, obviously if those are very frequent types of patients that are coming in, there’s certainly going to be a need. And I think that’s really cool how you positioned yourself to basically say, what are the needs out there and how can I best be a part of this service and impact patient care in that way? So I think that’s really cool the approach that you took.

Diana Isaacs: Thanks. Yeah, and I try — you know, a lot of times, pharmacists will come and ask me what they can do and how they can get involved, and I think it’s really every place is unique and it’s about assessing the needs and making sure you’re not stepping on other people’s toes but you’re adding value to the team.

Tim Church: So besides kind of positioning yourself as an expert by taking on very difficult cases, very unique cases that many people may not see all the time, you know, one of the things I thought about prior to our interview was the book “Outliers” by Malcolm Gladwell. And essentially, one of the conclusions of that book is that in order to become an expert, you need 10,000 hours. So a lot of people out there — obviously you don’t become an expert, you don’t become a member of the Beatles like overnight. The Beatles don’t become The Beatles overnight. It takes a lot of time and practice in order to get to that point. So what do you think about that in the context of your personal journey?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, that’s a great point. And yeah, hard work is required. I mean, I work hard. But the thing is, it’s not boring or tedious. I just, like I really love diabetes. And I love that I can use my skills in diabetes to be able to help people. Almost 10% of people now have diabetes. So wherever I am, I’m able to make an impact and to directly help people. And so like for me, I love doing it so much that I don’t think of it as work. Like if I am working on a project or I’ll do this stuff in the evenings, and I don’t really think about it because I’m enjoying doing it. But absolutely, like the hard work is necessary. And I think on one hand, that should be inspiring because it’s not that you have to have like some special secret skill or talent. Like every person or every pharmacist should know, like if they work hard enough in a certain area, they can become a clinical expert.

Tim Church: And I think too — and I think obviously, you’ve already kind of talked about this, but just that repetition of seeing the number of patients over and over and over, and you start to develop certain patterns. You know, obviously you’re going to have some complex cases that you’ve never seen before, but it’s almost kind of like it adds to the — your own repertoire of knowing OK, I’ve seen a patient like this in the past and this is how he or she has responded. And I’ve kind of instilled that in the training programs is when we take residents — because for those that don’t know, I also do primarily diabetes management, but I’m always pushing the residents and students to really see as many different types of patients as possible because that repetition is so key, even if it seems monotonous and tedious at the time.
Diana Isaacs: Yeah, and I think the great thing about kind of the ambulatory care environment too is you’re interacting, you’re communicating with different types of people. So you can always learn from every person. And so that’s really the art of it that makes it really unique and something — I have a lot of trainees, a lot of residents and students that I work with. And that’s something, you know, you can have two exact same clinical situations but what you do may be different depending on like the patient’s attitudes and other factors. So yeah, that communication and, like you said, repetition, is very helpful for navigating different situations.

Tim Church: So who or what really inspired you to become an expert? I can tell like just from your voice, obviously this is where you’re already passionate about. But is there anyone who inspired you to basically continue to achieve, continue to get to the next level?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah. So I want to highlight, so Jess Kerr, who is faculty at SIUE where I went to pharmacy school, was very inspiring. She was faculty and had a practice site — or still has a practice site at the VA. And I wanted to do what she did. I guess that passion I saw, she had that passion for helping people and I really wanted — she seemed so happy — and I really wanted to be that. I was very fortunate to get a position like that. I think something else that actually stands out is my math teacher, actually in high school. I had a really bad attitude about math. And I was like, fine, like this is too hard. Like I’m just getting C’s, like I don’t care. This is just way too hard, I don’t feel like doing it. But she invested all this time in me. And she encouraged me to have a positive mental attitude, PMA, and she said things like, “Dream it. Believe it. Achieve it.” And that really shifted things. Like I learned that my attitude really dictates how situations will turn out. And just through changing my mindset, having a positive attitude, things can go really well. So I turned myself around, I went from C’s to A’s. And I think that that message really stuck with me in a lot of different areas, not just pharmacy and diabetes but in other areas of my life too.

Tim Church: That’s really cool. And I think that a lot of people, they would not be where they are unless they heard some message, received some encouragement from somebody. So that’s cool. And I think it’s great that you highlighted those individuals. So obviously you’ve reached this expert status in managing diabetes and along with that comes some engagements and proposals and things where you can really show off those skills but also help other clinicians help patients. So talk about some of the ways that you were able to start monetizing your clinical expertise.

Diana Isaacs: Yeah. So it’s been exciting because I’ve done a lot of things over my career for free, put a lot of sweat and tears — not usually tears. But yeah, now I’m getting paid to actually speak and things like that. And I love — it happens to be that I love giving presentations. And so that now, you know, I get paid to give presentations. And part of actually what I’m doing with this Educator of the Year is I get to give presentations and then beyond the five that I will give and that I kind of already received an award for, I can do additional ones where they pay me and I’ve been able to set my price. And so that’s been exciting. And then another side benefit has been that industry has been interested in me too. So now I’m speaking for DexCom as well as I’m on the speakers bureau for Novo and for Zerus, and so that is very exciting.

Tim Church: So take a step back for the award, the Diabetes Educator of the Year, they’re already guaranteeing you five speaking spots? And are those individual speaking gigs, those are paid for? Is it one lump sum that they’re giving you?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, so what happened is I got $5,000 up front for that. And in that, I agreed to speak at five places, which I got to choose — or places could request me, and then I got to choose from the list of people that requested me. And then beyond that five, then additional places can request me. But they won’t get the financial assistance. So they would have to pay for my travel and then pay for my honorarium on their own.

Tim Church: So besides speaking, what are some of the other ways you’ve been able to monetize?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, so things like CE articles, so places like Pharmacy Times, Power Pack, they will basically — they will pay you to write CE articles or like give webinars. So that’s one thing I’ve been able to do. Also, like in the webinar and course development — so I actually do a lot of stuff with AADE. There’s a whole CGM course. And it’s going to be turning into a certificate. But I was involved in that. And so that’s led to a lot of honorariums along the way. We even most recently created videos for it on how to counsel on CGM. And so there’s been a good number of honorariums for that as well.

Tim Church: That’s great. So can you break down kind of the different ways you’re earning and what they would typically provide in terms of an honorarium? And that could be like a range.

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, so it really varies a lot from place to place. Like some places, you do a local program, and you speak, and you get $1,500. And that’s to cover — it usually would be like a one-hour program. Depending on the company, sometimes they’ll give you the slides. And sometimes, they’ll have you pick from slides or they’ll let you put together slides, depending on how much freedom you have. Usually, many places will pay — if it’s not done that way, they’ll pay you an hourly rate and then they will pay for presentation development. So like usually, that honorarium ranges from I would say from $200-300 an hour. And so that would, you know, if it takes 10 hours to prepare, say that would be $2,500. And then the presentation itself usually will be like a $2,000 honorarium as well. So I would say like usually, when I speak, I’ll get anywhere form like $1,000 to $5,000. $5,000 being the best and not usually so normal. But that’s kind of a range. And then they pay for travel and hotel and all that, flight and all that good stuff. Recently, I was asked to speak as part of this diabetes program, which is training people for CDE. And that, I think we agreed on like $600 per hour of speaking. But that wouldn’t be prep time, that would probably just be like the time. So if I speak for five hours, then it’s $3,000. So that’s kind of for the speaking stuff, that’s usually how it works out.

Tim Church: And then have you been able to cross — I mean, obviously with AADE, ADA, those are multidisciplinary organizations — but have you gone and done presentations specifically for physicians, for nurse practitioners, physician assistants?

Diana Isaacs: Yes, so I was just recently asked to speak for like the dietician organization. So I think that’s beginning to happen. I was asked to speak also for ADA post-grad sessions, which is in early February. So that’s exciting because that’s an organization, there’s a lot more physicians in that organization. And of course, I do a lot of speaking AADE. So I think I’m starting to tap into these other organizations as well.

Tim Church: You mentioned to me before we jumped on the call that besides speaking, besides CE articles, some of the other ways you’ve been able to monetize have been being a part of advisory boards and then also consulting. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Diana Isaacs: Oh yeah. Advisory boards are like the greatest thing in the world. They’re usually like these — it’ll be like four hours and you’ll get paid like $250 an hour, plus if there was any travel. But the best is when they’re local, and you just like go for four hours and you get $1,000. Those are wonderful. I love when those happen. Other things, like for consulting, just different types of like writing or I get asked a lot of stuff about CGM type of stuff. Like now, I’ll be working on a supplement for the Diabetes Educator for InPen by Companion Medical, so stuff like that pays. Oh, recently I got asked to do this Medscape thing, which that sounds actually really cool. It’s like about time and range. And they’re — I guess it’s more kind of like an interview. They asked me to pick a nurse that I like working with, so I picked my favorite nurse. And we’re going to go I guess to like New York to film this brief thing. But that was like another kind of cool thing that I was like, oh, wow. That’s interesting. So all that stuff’s been cool. And I guess one of the things I’ve learned is, you know, I’ve done lots of things for free in my life. And I love doing it. So sometimes, it’s like easy to get to be like, oh yeah, I’ll just do this. But recently, I’ve tried to set my boundaries that hey, if someone’s asking for a good amount of my time, to make sure that I am getting paid fairly for my amount of time.

Tim Church: Sure, I mean, I think that’s absolutely reasonable. And you’ve done a lot of the things in the past to get to the point where you are where you weren’t necessarily compensated. But I think it’s incredible all the different ways you’ve been able to monetize. And obviously, along the way, you’re providing a lot of value, whether that be organizations or education that ultimately gets in the hands of patients itself, which is really cool. Can you break down in terms of percentages — so all of these different things that you’re doing to monetize — can you break down kind of what is the highest in terms of bringing in the revenue? Without specific amounts, just kind of what percentages does speaking bring in versus advisory boards, consulting, CE, etc.?

Diana Isaacs: So I think speaking definitely brings in — if it’s like a big program where — like I’ll give you another example. Like at AADE, I had a bunch of presentations, but then I had this one presentation, it was sponsored by Abbott. And so the honorarium was like $2,000. So that’s something that just brings in money, I feel like quickly, especially if it’s a topic that I’m pretty comfortable with. Like another example was a CE article that I did, it was also on CGM, and that paid $4,000. And so those are topics I’m very comfortable with. So those are easy and much faster, I guess, to earn the money. Other things, like writing sometimes. You know, writing can take awhile, so especially if it’s a topic you’re less familiar with. So now I try to stay in the diabetes realm. But I actually, like last year, I wrote an article about hyperhidrosis, which was not as familiar to me as other disease states. So that one took a little bit more time. So I guess what I’m saying is it’s hard to completely break it down. But I think for sure speaking, advisory boards pay a lot, but those are really unpredictable. So you know, I could have two advisory boards in one month or I can go almost a year without an advisory board. It’s just, it really depends on the needs of the company and what area they’re targeting and everything. So I think it just really varies. Another thing that brings in revenue, though, which is kind of cool, is speaker training. So whenever you speak for one of these companies, they want you to get trained. And so like that, that’s amazing because you get your hourly rate for a bunch of hours and you’re not presenting or anything, you’re just learning. And so that’s pretty cool.

Tim Church: How does that work?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, so like with Dexcom, I was really fortunate because I missed the original training, and two people came out to me and like just trained me for four hours. And like I earned $1,000 and it was amazing. Other ones, like I’ve been invited now for this year to go to a Dexcom and to a Novo training. And so those, I’ll be flying out to like to Florida in the winter, so it’s not like it’s so bad. I think the other one’s California. But it’s just basically like a day, and they’ll be paid an hourly rate. And the good thing about those is it will be with other people on their speakers bureau. So the opportunity to interact — but those are really interesting because you learn more about their product. And so I mean, I just find it’s incredibly helpful and interesting, and I get to earn money. So it’s really awe — I mean, it’s really cool to get to do that kind of stuff.

Tim Church: Yeah, it sounds like you’re getting just a tremendous amount of opportunities, which is really cool. Would you say that now at the point of where you are that most of these opportunities are already being asked of you where you’re not having to reach out as much anymore to get them in motion?

Diana Isaacs: So yes and no. So yeah, like fortunately with the pharma stuff, that’s been really exciting. But I think it goes both ways because I was pretty interested in Zerus and definitely let them know that I was interested in being a consultant for them. I’m definitely getting asked more, but I’ll tell you, there’s still things I apply for. So I think it depends the caliber of what it is. I am, fortunately, getting asked a lot more. But there’s certain things that I — I’ll give you an example, OK? So this isn’t so like — this makes sense. So like ADA Standards of Care, I would like love more than anything to be on the committee that develops the standards of care, OK? So that’s something you have to apply for. So that is something that I hope to apply for and if I were to get selected for something like that, that would be like a career dream. So I think it goes both ways, maybe my dreams are even higher now than they were before. But yeah, I still, I’m open to new opportunities and still — will still apply for things.

Tim Church: So looking back, now that you’ve obviously been able to monetize, you’ve been able to bring in extra income, what are you doing with the additional income that you’re bringing in with your side hustle?

Diana Isaacs: That is also a great question. So honestly, I just live my — I don’t want to stress about money, and I think bringing in the extra money allows me to live a very comfortable life without stressing. I work very, very full-time between my regular job and all these extra consulting opportunities. My husband, fortunately, is able to work part-time, which is good because then someone is home more for the kids and I feel like we have more balance, and he’s able to take care of some more of the stuff at home. So I think for us, it’s just really about not having this stress, being able to buy what we want, and then whatever extra, college funds, all that good stuff.

Tim Church: Cool. So how much time do you think in most weeks you’re spending kind of on consulting and all these other activities that are outside of your scope of your full-time positon?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, that’s hard to quantify. I will say every Saturday, I completely disconnect and I am not using the phone, I’m not working, I’m like really just with the family. So I always have that day. And even Sundays, I try to really make family day. And I’m fortunate that I have a position that’s Monday through Friday so that I have my weekends off. I try really hard to do my extra work in the evenings when my kids go to sleep and like evening-weekend — or weekend-evenings. I try not to take too much time away when my kids are awake. It’s definitely a balancing act. I feel like I make it work. I don’t know. Maybe it seems like I work a lot, but I try — somehow, it all works.

Tim Church: I was going to ask you, what other tips do you have? Because I mean, you’re doing so much, you have a family, I mean, I think a lot of people when they think about the thought of taking on something in addition to their full-time job, it almost seems like it’s impossible.

Diana Isaacs: So I guess it’s built up like over time, so it hasn’t felt like oh, it’s this massive thing all at once except when I have an article that’s due and I waited until the last second to do it, which isn’t great. But I don’t know, I just, I don’t do — like I don’t watch TV really. I don’t go to movies, I try to minimize distractions. I’d like to say I’m perfect about social media, but I definitely like to post things on Twitter and stuff. But I try to really minimize the outside distractions. And when I am home with my family to really focus on my kids and not be distracted. And that way, when they go to bed, like I can really devote my time, you know, like whatever, from 8:30-10 on whatever I want to work on. So I just — and I think I just love what I do. I just love it so much that for me, it’s like my hobby, right? Like if someone else likes to paint or likes to do whatever, they would make time for that. So for me, this is kind of like my hobby. I just really enjoy it. And so I just — like I make time for it.

Tim Church: And it sounds like too that it sounds like your husband is very supportive in you doing these extra activities and things like that. And obviously, you said it makes it a little bit easier that he’s part-time. But would you say that he’s played a big role for you to be successful with all these other ventures?

Diana Isaacs: Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah. I mean, he’s the only reason that I can do what I do. He’s like really good at managing the kids, going grocery shopping, like he’s really on top of it, but also I have cleaning help. Like that’s a must. I definitely, I have cleaning help, a lot of cleaning help. So that’s another thing I use my money for lots of cleaning help. But yeah, I mean, you have to have that support. And he knows that I love doing this stuff, so he is supportive as long as I’m not out of town too much. And that’s the part I have to balance because all these speaking gigs, trying to just make sure — I like to be home on the weekends when I can and stuff. But yeah, it’s a balancing act, but it’s fun.

Tim Church: Well, Diana, this has been a great time. And obviously, it’s just cool to hear your passion in your voice. I mean, obviously, this is an area where you’ve become an expert and be able to impact not only clinicians but patients just in your full-time job but with all the work that you do. So what tips or suggestions would you have for others who want to become an expert in a particular clinical area?

Diana Isaacs: So this is going to go against all that burnout, resiliency talk that you hear. But just say yes. Like this whole thing about saying no to avoid burnout, I just, I disagree with it. And I think in order to be an expert, to have new opportunities, you’ve got to say yes. You’ve got to open yourself up to that because you never know, like when you say no because you’re worried, oh, it might overwhelm you, what you’re going to miss out on. And the thing is when you say no a lot, that really closes doors and people don’t want to ask you again. So I just, I like really encourage people to say yes or at least really, really think about it before being so quick to say no. And then the other thing is just look for those opportunities. Don’t expect that people are going to hand you things. You do have to work hard. It doesn’t happen overnight, but that’s OK. And just look for new opportunities.

Tim Church: Diana, if somebody wants to learn more about you and what you’re doing, what’s the best way to reach out?

Diana Isaacs: Yeah, so you can email me, you can find me on Twitter, @DianaMIsaacs. Yeah, I’d be happy to chat with anyone who’s interested in talking. So yeah, feel free to shoot me an email. If we’re going to one of the same meetings, we can meet up there. So yeah, happy to connect with anyone who’s interested.

Tim Church: Diana, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, sharing your story and your tips and suggestions. It’s been a lot of fun.

Diana Isaacs: Oh, you’re very welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

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19 Ways to Make Extra Money as a Pharmacist in 2020

Posted on March 23, 2019January 28, 2023 by yfpadmin

19 ways to make extra money as a pharmacist in 2020

Updated 2/2020

The following post contains affiliate links through which YFP or its team members may receive compensation.

Within the past couple years, many pharmacists have unfortunately experienced pay cuts as multiple community pharmacy chains reduced weekly hours to be considered full-time (such as 32 hours). With this example, considering median pharmacist pay, it would result in about a $25,000 loss per year or more. That’s a big deal for anyone but especially those struggling to pay back pharmacy school loans and other debt.

Not only that, some pharmacists have experienced a job loss because of stores closing or companies downsizing.

Even if you’re fortunate and haven’t had a pay cut or lost a position, you still may be looking for ways to accelerate your financial goals, fund vacations, or just upgrade your lifestyle, etc. Obviously, you can cut and minimize your expenses up to a point, but eventually, you’ll reach a limit. This, combined with the pharmacist salary being relatively fixed in many settings, can lead you to find ways to make extra money as a pharmacist.

While there are a plethora of options to make extra money and many side jobs for pharmacists, some are not practical. Your time is important, right? With a median hourly pay around $60, doing something for less where you trade your time for money may not be the best use of your efforts unless it’s something you’re really passionate about. Other ideas such as starting a blog or podcast with the goal of eventually monetizing can work but they can take years to reach that point and take up a ton of time.

For this post, we are going to focus on some practical ways to earn some extra cash not in a year or five years from now, but this year. While most of these are focused on a pharmacy background, I have included some others as well that are relatively easy to get started and won’t necessarily take a lot of time to execute.

1. Take Extra Shifts

This is probably one of the easiest ways to earn extra money as a pharmacist if it’s available. While not likely for those working in community pharmacy, there may be some opportunities in hospitals and health systems especially when there is a temporary shortage.

One of my friends who recently switched from a community chain to a mail order specialty pharmacy was really concerned about the pay cut he was going to initially experience. However, even though the base salary was lower, he actually made more because of the ample opportunities for overtime.

2. Look for Additional Projects / Assignments

Throughout my pharmacist career, there have been several times when special projects required pharmacist intervention. Typically, these have been large volume medication changes that needed patient education either due to manufacturer backorders or formulary changes secondary to pricing changes. Because of the potential cost savings for these projects, employers can often justify overtime pay.

While these types of opportunities may not be blatantly advertised, I would encourage you to reach out to your supervisor or manager to see if there is anything available.

3. Refinance Student Loans…And Then Do It Again

Save money by paying less in interest each month because of a lower rate. That’s the typical reason why most people with refinance student loans. While saving money is great, why not also get paid. In a single year, my wife and I made $2,700 by refinancing our student loans multiple times. Each time we were able to get a lower interest rate through a different company and each time we were able to get a cash bonus.

Refinance companies will make money from you by the interest you pay each month. Because pharmacists typically carry high debt loads in the six figures, refinance companies will make more money over the course of the loan versus those with much lower student loan balances.

Therefore, as an incentive for you to use a particular company, they will offer a cash bonus or welcome bonus. As mentioned above, you’re not limited to doing this one time. With interest rates always changing, it’s not uncommon for another company to provide a better rate than what you refinanced to the first time.

Now, some big student loan review sites offer nothing to very little to their audience when they refinance in order to take larger commissions. But that’s not our style. We have partnered with several refinance companies that offer bonuses of $300-$800 to you and sometimes higher when they are running promotions. Yes, we receive a commission on each refinanced loan, but we have shifted most of the benefit to you.

If you’re pursuing the Public Service Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program or non-PSLF forgiveness (taxable forgiveness after making income-driven payments for 20-25 years), then refinancing is off the table given it will disqualify you from these programs. If you want to refinance your student loans, check out our current offers below:

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4. Take a Moonlighting Position

A few years ago when I was gung-ho about getting rid of my student loans ASAP I was on a mission to figure out how to bring in extra income. At that time, I was limited to 40 hours per week with my full-time job without any overtime opportunities so I had to look for something else. Eventually, I was hired as a PRN pharmacist at a local hospital where I would work in the evenings and weekends allowing me to bring in anywhere from $500-$2,000 extra per month.

If you’re looking for a moonlighting position, consider inquiring at local hospitals and independent pharmacies. While they may not need a ton of help, even a couple of days a month could bring in a decent side income.

5. Earn another certification/credential

In the world of medicine and particularly pharmacy, there are credentials and certifications for everything now. They can be a great way to promote your additional qualifications and training and could even be required for specific academic and clinical positions. Some employers may actually incentivize you to get these as well either in the form of a one time bonus or even a permanent raise.

For example, federal employees who work for the VA are paid based on their grade and step and will have a GS or General Schedule status. The grade usually pertains to the position and the step is typically determined by initial qualifications at the time employment starts and also the years of service. Therefore the most common way to get to the next level is often just to keep your job.

Depending on the facility, one can also add a step or two by earning a board certification or special credential like a Certified Diabetes Educator (CDE). If your employer will also pay for the prep materials and the exam(s) itself, then that’s a double bonus! This is definitely something you want to ask prospective employers about if you are planning to start your pharmacist career or switching jobs.

Beyond raises, it’s possible that some paid opportunities could come knocking. Since getting his BCOP, my friend and colleague Brandon Dyson, PharmD is semi-regularly called by a consulting firm doing research on a new product to figure out the market and to see if this product would integrate into existing oncology practices.

These are usually a 1-hour consult call, and he usually gets paid $200 or $300 each. Although they are not consistent, he notes that once you get a relationship with a given firm, they start contacting you more.

6. Switch to a Higher Paying Job or One With More Opportunities

Many pharmacists express feeling stuck or burned out in their current job and that there’s no way out. It’s true that it can seem overwhelming to make a transition, especially if you’re someone who doesn’t like to step outside of your comfort zone and feel like you’ve lost some of your clinical skills and knowledge to pursue something else. Although it’s never usually easy, it’s definitely possible and making the move could result in more money or the potential to make more money.

My friend and colleague Alex Barker, PharmD, and the founder of the HappyPharmD, created an entire business around helping pharmacists create inspiring work and lives by primarily assisting them in transitioning to pharmacy and non-pharmacy jobs that they are passionate about. He does this through 1-on-1 coaching and also through his free training.

If you’re someone looking to make a job change, I highly encourage you to check out his free webinar on how to escape burnout, get job offers regularly, and take control of your pharmacist career.

7. Start Doing Medical Writing

Brittany Hoffman-Eubanks is a community pharmacist who started her medical writing career about four years ago. Initially, this was a side hustle that brought in a couple thousand dollars per year. It supported her obsession with traveling and need to see everything in the world. Now she is working on making the move to make this her full-time gig.

Medical writing can come in the form of continuing medical education, needs assessments, and research and grant proposals just to name a few.

Although the income from medical writing varies so does the method of compensation. It could be hourly with a huge range of $25-$180/hour, per word typically somewhere around $0.20-0.25 per word, or a flat fee of a couple of hundred dollars to a couple of thousand dollars depending on the scope of the project and writer experience.

If you have stellar writing mechanics and grammar use, and you want to get started with medical writing, Brittany has a few recommendations for you. First, there are several social media groups where you can network and find opportunities and encouragement from other writers. Joining applicable associations such as the American Medical Writers Association is another good idea.

You can also check out episode 126 of the podcast, where Brittany breaks down some other tips for getting started in medical writing.

8. Provide Continuing Education / Other Presentations

If you’re able to deliver an effective message, you could be turning that skill into dollars. Think about how many national, state, and local pharmacy organizations there are. Most of them are paying people to provide CE since it’s something that’s required.

But even beyond pharmacy, many other healthcare providers such as physicians, nurses, physician assistants are also required to maintain their license with ongoing education. Why not reach out and inquire about delivering medication-related programs?

The other great thing is that if you are an expert on a particular topic and have already done the work, you can essentially deliver the same content multiple times across multiple channels enabling you to minimize the time for any prep work.

Beyond continuing education, if you have a great story or possess knowledge on a topic outside of medicine that is needed, people will pay for this as well. Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, the founder of Your Financial Pharmacist, has made around $10,000 in the past two years telling his story about getting out of debt and delivering education on personal finance to pharmacy schools and pharmacy organizations.

9. Start a Consulting Practice

Have you ever thought about starting your own business by providing clinical services? Contrary to what you may have heard, you can get paid for doing MTM and other consulting work. You just have to know the keys to implementing services along with the mechanics of billing and reimbursement. It can be a great opportunity to work more closely with patients and directly impact their health and well-being.

Blair Thielemier, PharmD has set up an entire academy to help pharmacists get their consulting business off the ground. Besides an on-demand online training program, you get access to business coaching and live Q&A calls. You can get $50 off the first month of your membership by using code “YFP50”.

10. Complete Comprehensive Medication Reviews (CMRs) through Aspen RxHealth

Aspen RxHealth is a company with an app-based platform that connects pharmacists with patients to perform MTM. The app connects with Medicare plans and identifies patients who are eligible for a Comprehensive Medication Review (CMR).

What’s cool about their technology is you call the patient directly from the app and then perform all of the necessary functions of the CMR directly within the app. There’s no paperwork and once complete, the patient gets a copy of the review and any recommendations you have.

They currently pay $40/CMR and then typically throw in bonuses and incentives to complete a certain amount within a week or particular days. In one recent report, pharmacists were making around $72/hour based on the volume they were able to complete.

I went through the process myself to check it out and see what it was all about. The onboarding process was fairly easy and smooth and my application was approved within a week. They have a Learning Management System with videos to help get you acclimated to the app and the dos and don’ts of performing a CMR.

What I really liked is that you can work whenever you want and complete CMRs when it’s good for you as long as it is within the typical business hours that the company sets. This also includes being able to make calls on Saturdays.

Once I actually got trained and was prepared to make some calls, it was a little disenchanting because I had made about 15 calls and could not get a single person to answer. Apparently, I am not the only one who has had this issue as the last time I checked it takes an average of somewhere around that number before one typically gets a patient on the line. Because this took me about an hour or more just to make calls without any success, I decided not to continue.

However, I have heard from other pharmacists, that they have someone who makes calls for them to either transfer or set up a time to discuss their medications which could reduce a lot of the wasted time for a pharmacist just making calls.

At one time they were only accepting pharmacists registered in Florida, but you can learn more about the platform and opportunities at www.aspenrxhealth.com.

11. Write a book

With the expansion of ebooks and audiobooks and the tools for self-publishing, it has never been easier to write and publish your own book. While the thought of taking something like this on could seem grueling and years to accomplish, the reality is that it doesn’t have to be dissertation and you could take an idea to finished product in a matter of weeks to months.

When I wrote my first book that educates patients about medications for type 2 diabetes, I was able to get the whole project done within 6 months. It was a very short book but this was intentional in order to keep the reader engaged and not overwhelmed with too many details.

While the process for writing and publishing a book is relatively simple, making a meaningful income that not only covers your costs to create but also ongoing is not. Because everyone is doing this now and there are millions of books on Amazon and other marketplaces, the competition is high. Even if you have an awesome idea that is filled with great content, you can’t expect to just release something on Amazon and sit back and watch the royalties come in.

Marketing and the positioning of your book is really the key to actually make it a profitable endeavor. Yes, you need to have great content that people want to read, but you have to have a strategy on how you will get the message out. If you have a big audience through a blog, podcast, social media channel, or another outlet, that really helps and can be a great starting point. If not, you can partner with other influencers and people with large followings.

If the idea of writing a book sounds intriguing but you have no idea what to write about, here are a couple suggestions. For nonfiction, consider medical topics that are important or widespread that would be of value to patients or other medical professionals.

Test prep or study materials for exams and courses are another option. Outside of pharmacy and medicine, consider writing about a very profound story that involved you or someone you know. If you have a very creative and imaginative side, perhaps writing a fictional book could be up your alley. There are many possibilities out there!

Ok, one big tip I have, if you are going to self-publish, is don’t be cheap on creating the cover. People DO judge books by their covers and many people are turned off if they can immediately determine your book is self-published solely based on the cover. Spend good money on a quality cover!

99 Designs has a great service where multiple designers compete to get you the best cover. A couple of great books to help you get started with the writing and publishing process are Authority by Nathan Barry and Book Launch by Chandler Bolt. If you are interested in doing an audiobook, I would recommend reaching out to Tony Guerra, PharmD who has published and helped other pharmacists publish many books.

12. Teach a course / Become an adjunct professor

Brandon Dyson, the co-founder of TL;DR Pharmacy, author of 100 Strong Residency Interview Questions, Answers, and Rationales, and wizard of all things pharmacy, has been teaching a general pharmacology course for the past five years through Georgetown University School of Nursing.

Currently, the course is offered three times a year and he gets paid for each one, bringing in $4,000 each or $12,000 per year. Not bad for a side hustle, right? The best part is the course is online so he doesn’t have to worry about traveling and does all the teaching and mentoring from home.

If you enjoy teaching and are able to deliver great content in an engaging and professional way, there may be some great opportunities for you. Besides checking out the major pharmacy and non-pharmacy job sites, you could consider reaching out to a local pharmacy school.

Offering to do a free lecture or learning session can be a great way to show off your skills and could result in future paid opportunities. Also, don’t restrict yourself to just pharmacy school. Like Brandon, you should also consider other healthcare professionals like nurses, physicians, and physician assistants who are required to learn pharmacy topics.

13. Serve on an advisory board

An advisory board provides strategic advice to a company or organization and unlike a board of directors, they typically do not have any voting rights or decision-making powers.

Pharmaceutical companies and other healthcare organizations often have advisory boards and there are typically opportunities for pharmacists to get a spot. You often need to be an expert in a particular area or have the experience that can demonstrate your value.

Diana Isaacs is a pharmacist who is an expert in the diabetes arena and has often been asked to serve on advisory boards to provide her knowledge and insight. While the compensation varies, she has typically earned a couple of hundred dollars/hour in exchange for her time. You can learn more about her experience with this in episode 137 of the podcast.

14. Become an Expert Witness

In episode 112 of the podcast, Brent Rollins shared his story about becoming a pharmacist expert witness for law firms primarily focusing on marketing cases in addition to standards of care cases. He was able to get some experience while he was in school when his professor asked for assistance on a big case, he got his start and continued to receive casework.

Many criminal and civil cases involve medications and toxicology and quality of care/negligence where pharmacists can be positioned well to provide their expertise and testimony. While reports vary on compensation, according to a report by SEAK, an expert witness directory company, medical experts earn on average $350/hour.

You can serve as a witness by providing documentation or reports, answering questions by attorneys, depositions, and expert testimony.

Having a colleague as Brent did, to get an in is certainly a good way to get started but also consider your network of friends and family if they are attorneys or know attorneys who frequently take on cases that use pharmacists or other medical experts.

You can also check out some of the big expert witness directory companies/sites such as SEAK , The Expert Insitute, HGExperts. You can also get plugged in with the American Society for Pharmacy Law. which is a nonprofit organization that organizations of attorneys, pharmacists, pharmacist-attorneys and students of pharmacy or law who are interested in the law.

15. Monetize a non-pharmacy skill

In 2019, I made about $3,000 from building websites. Through my experience at Your Financial Pharmacist, I picked up the skill of basic web design and although I’m not an expert by any means, knowledge of the foundation has allowed me to monetize it. Plus, it’s really fun and something I truly enjoy so it doesn’t even feel like real work to me.

Through my podcast interviews with pharmacists who have unique side hustles, it’s evident how talented and creative those in our profession are. What skill or knowledge outside of pharmacy do you have? Is there something you are passionate about that can either help solve other people’s problems or bring incredible value?

Some ideas include photography and video editing, graphic design, IT, translation, voice production, social media management, and marketing. You can check out sites like www.upwork.com and see if there are any freelancing jobs where you have the skills to jump in.

In 2020 I interviewed a pharmacist named Stephanie Roberts (episode coming soon) who had a passion for creating art and did this just as a hobby for a while until one day she had the idea of possibly selling some of her pieces. To her surprise, her pill petri dishes and trays using epoxy resin have been a huge hit and continue to sell out all the time.

She has become so successful that she now makes over six figures with her art alone and pharmacy has become her side hustle! You can see some of her work below.

16. Switch to a high yield savings account or money market account

When you consider inflation, money sitting in regular checking or savings accounts can lose a lot of purchasing power over time given most interest rates are essentially next to nothing.

Sure you avoid market risk or the risk of keeping cash in other investments but there are other options that are less risky and can yield at least some return. These include high yield savings accounts and money market accounts.

If you are sitting on a bunch of cash that’s for an emergency or you are saving for a big purchase, these can be good options can earn a little extra money. Now if your savings amount is relatively low and you aren’t adding anything to it then it may not be anything substantial, but remember it’s better than 0.001%.

I recently did a review of my experience with CIT Bank which offers competitive interest rates from 0.85-1.40% for their high yield savings and money market accounts.

17. Become an Airbnb host

Tim Baker CFP®, team member on the Your Financial Pharmacist team loves to take his family on vacations around the country and the world. But frequent trips can get expensive. That’s one of the reasons why he and his wife became an Airbnb host. In just 1.5 years they have made $10,000!

Hilary Blackburn is a pharmacist in the Nashville area who rents out her primary residence about 14 times per year and has been able to earn about $8,000 per year or more. You can learn more about how she’s making it happen on episode 121 of the podcast.

If you’re not familiar with Airbnb, essentially it is an alternative way to lodge instead of the traditional hotel. As an Airbnb host, you list a property you own or rent on their platform for guests to book and stay. Airbnb only takes 3% of the total reservation so you keep most of the booking fee.

Some people host their primary residence when they are out of town or have additional rental property or space that they list. For some, the thought of having strangers stay in your house even if you’re not there may seem pretty overwhelming and concerning.

Sure there are some potential issues that could occur such as theft or vandalism but you have control over who is able to stay based on reviews and other factors on the Airbnb platform. Plus, as a host, you get access to up to $1 million of property damage protection if you ever need it.

If you want to find out how much you could earn by listing your space, you can check out the Airbnb estimator below.

18. Buy a rental property / House Hack

Many people have built entire businesses around managing rental property. On one of our most popular podcast episodes, Carrie Calton, PharmD discussed how she achieved financial freedom by acquiring 18 rental properties! You don’t need a ton of cash in order to purchase a property as you can typically get approved with even a low down payment. However, that amount will be dependent on your risk tolerance and the equity you want to start with.

It may seem enticing to simply look at the potential mortgage payments vs. how much rent you could collect for a particular property. However, when you are doing an analysis to determine if the property would be cash flow positive and provide another stream of income, you have to consider ALL of the costs and maintenance involved such as insurance, HOA, taxes, repairs, capital expenditures, etc.

Along the lines of buying a rental property is house hacking. This usually involves buying a property with a low percentage down (generally 1, 3 or 5%), living there for a year (required), and renting out the other units or rooms. For example, if you purchase a single-family home, then you would rent out the other bedrooms.

Or if you owned a duplex or condo with multiple units, you can live in one and rent the others. Depending on the cash flow, you may be able to cover the mortgage payment and even make a profit. Check out episode 130 for more information on this.

Bigger Pockets is a great resource to get started and learn more about real estate and rental properties. Besides their podcast and online resources, they also have an awesome book: The Book on Rental Property Investing by Brandon Turner.

19. List your car on Turo

What happens to your car when you go on trips or the days when you don’t need it? It probably just sits in your garage or driveaway right? But what if your car could make you money? With Turo, you can!

Often referred to as the Airbnb of vehicles Turo is an alternative to a traditional car rental service. From the user standpoint, through their platform, you enter the date and location you are looking to use a vehicle, choose what you want, and book. You can pick it up or even have it delivered to you.

So how much can you earn? It varies from $40/day up to several hundred dollars per day depending on if you are handing the keys over to a Toyota Corolla or Mercedes E-class. Here’s an example based on Turo’s calculator. If you have 2018 Tesla Model X and live in the Miami area, you could earn approximately $1,724 or $180/day if your car was booked an average of 9.6 days per month. Not bad right?

You’ll earn 65% to 85% of the trip price, depending on the vehicle protection package you choose but you can also choose to just use your own commercial insurance which could get you a bigger cut.

Conclusion – How to Make More Money as a Pharmacist

There are many practical ways to make extra money as a pharmacist. Some are directly related to the profession while other opportunities exist by capitalizing on other skills and interests you have. Some need relatively little time and effort (i.e. refinance student loans) whereas others may require additional training and several hours of work.

With the pharmacist salary being relatively fixed, having a side hustle and earning additional streams of income can help you reach your financial goals faster and help pay back pharmacy school loans. It can also give you an added layer of protection from relying on one source of income, which is important as the profession continues to undergo changes and technology and innovation are disrupting traditional roles and positions.

Another Way to Find Side Jobs for Pharmacists or a Pharmacist Side Hustle

If you want some additional inspiration I would recommend checking out the side hustle series where I interview pharmacists who have businesses and gigs that bring in additional monthly income.

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19 ways to make extra money as a pharmacist in 2020

1. Take Extra Shifts

2. Look for Additional Projects / Assignments

3. Refinance Student Loans…And Then Do It Again

4. Take a Moonlighting Position

5. Earn another certification/credential

6. Switch to a Higher Paying Job or One With More Opportunities

7. Start Doing Medical Writing

8. Provide Continuing Education / Other Presentations

9. Start a Consulting Practice

10. Complete Comprehensive Medication Reviews (CMRs) through Aspen RxHealth

11. Write a book

12. Teach a course / Become an adjunct professor

13. Serve on an advisory board

14. Become an Expert Witness

15. Monetize a non-pharmacy skill

16. Switch to a high yield savings account or money market account

17. Become an Airbnb host

18. Buy a rental property / House Hack

19. List your car on Turo

Conclusion – How to Make More Money as a Pharmacist

Another Way to Find Side Jobs for Pharmacists or a Pharmacist Side Hustle

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