pharmacist home buying

YFP 353: Avoiding the Trap of House Poor: Evaluating Cost of Home Ownership

Posted on by YFP Media

Nate Hedrick, The Real Estate RPH, discusses how to avoid the trap of becoming house poor, the ever-lively debate of renting vs buying a home, the costs of buying a home, and how to determine how much house you can afford. This episode is sponsored by Real Estate RPH.

Episode Summary

In this episode sponsored by Real Estate RPh, host Tim Ulbrich chats with pharmacist and real-estate agent Nate Hedrick, CEO and founder of Real Estate RPh, all about the costs of home buying. Beyond the initial down payment and monthly mortgage payment, there are a lot of expenses with home ownership. Some expenses can be expected and planned for, others can catch you by surprise, as Nate and Tim have both learned.

Hear valuable insights and resources for pharmacists looking to purchase a home, covering topics such as down payment assistance options, planning for those unexpected expenses, and creative ways to help achieve the goal of home ownership.

About Today’s Guest

Nate Hedrick is full-time pharmacist by day, husband and father by evening and weekend, and real estate agent, investor, and blogger by late night and early morning. He has a passion for staying uncomfortable and is always on the lookout for a new challenge or a project. He found real estate investing in 2016 after his $300,000+ student loan debt lead him to read Rich Dad Poor Dad. This book opened his mind to the possibilities of financial freedom and he has been obsessed ever since. After earning his real estate license in 2017, Nate founded Real Estate RPH as a source for real estate education designed with pharmacists in mind. Since then, he has helped dozens of pharmacists around the country realize their dream of owning a home or starting their investing journey. Nate resides in Cleveland, Ohio with his wife, Kristen, his two daughters Molly and Lucy, and his rescue dog Lexi.

Key Points from the Episode

Home buying costs and webinar sign-up. [0:00]
Real estate market trends and industry news. [2:32]
Financial impacts of home ownership and student loan debt. [5:27]
Home affordability and financial planning. [11:07]
Budgeting and financial planning for homebuyers. [15:11]
Homeownership and financial planning creativity. [19:39]
Homeownership costs beyond mortgage payments. [23:25]
Homeownership costs and surprises. [27:00]
Home buying options and resources. [32:59]

Episode Highlights

“I live this every day, just as another pharmacist also owning a home, right? You have to kind of account for all those costs. And it can feel like you get to the end of the month, and every bucket has been taken up by something. And you’re like, okay, how many, you know, how many pennies do I have left to rub together?” – Nate Hedrick [11:08]

“So I like tools that have that much more broad look, rather than trying to silo things out and saying 10% should go towards your car and 20% toward your house, because I just don’t think they work for everybody.”- Nate Hedrick [16:00]

“Like that’s the biggest thing with homeownership is – it nothing is consistent, every month is going to be different no matter what you do. And building in some of that margin building in that that error is just a great way to de stress that whole process.” – Nate Hedrick [29:18]

“I think what we’re really trying to prevent is, you know, as we talk about the theme here of avoiding the trap of being house poor and really evaluating all these costs that we don’t achieve one goal at the expense of a bunch of others.” – Tim Ulbrich [29:31]

“I think most people assume or think that they’ve got to have 20% down to buy a home. The reality is, there’s a ton of different programs out there and you don’t need anywhere near 20% down.” – Nate Hedrick [33:50]

“But there are a number of awesome programs out there that can help with down payment assistance, that can lower the downpayment that’s required and still have a competitive interest rate”. – Nate Hedrick [34:14]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week our resident homebuying expert Nate Hedrick joins the show to answer the question how much house can I afford? We discuss how to avoid the trap of becoming house poor, the ever lively debate of renting versus buying, and what costs to consider beyond the down payment and monthly payment, which includes principal interest, taxes and insurance. Whether you’re a first time homebuyer or already own your own home. Our hope is this episode will help you evaluate how home ownership fits as one puzzle piece in the rest of the financial plan. Speaking of homebuying, Nate will be joining us for a free webinar coming up on Thursday, April 25, at 8:30pm/Eastern titled, Your Checklist for Buying a Home in 2024. During this webinar, Nate will share what you need to know about purchasing a home in 2024. And we’ll walk you through important steps to take in your home buying journey to make the process easier to navigate and understand. You can sign up for this webinar by visiting yourfinancialpharmacist.com/homebuying2024. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/homebuying2024. All right, let’s hear from today’s sponsor the Real Estate RPh and then we’ll jump into the show.

Tim Ulbrich 01:20

Are you planning to buy a home in the next year or two? With the state of current home prices and mortgage rates the home buying process can feel overwhelming. But what if you can leverage the knowledge and ongoing support of someone who has worked with dozens of other pharmacists through their home buying journey all at no cost to you? I’m talking about Nate Hedrick at the Real Estate RPh. Nate is a pharmacist who has been a partner of YFP for many years now and offers a home buying concierge service that can help you find a high quality agent in your area and support you throughout the entire process. So head on over to RealEstateRPh.com or click on the link in the show notes to schedule your FREE 30 minute jumpstart planning session with Nate.

Tim Ulbrich 02:05

Nate, welcome back to the show.

Nate Hedrick 02:07

Hey, Tim, always good to be here.

Tim Ulbrich 02:08

Well, this is the time of year where things start to really heat up on the home buying the home selling side of things, although you know, we continue to be in this in this unique cycle that is a little bit of an out-of-whack of supply and demand. We’ve got obviously interest rates still where they’re at. So as you go into the spring season, what’s normal, what’s not normal for you this time of year?

Nate Hedrick 02:32

I guess the only normal thing is that it is it is getting busy. My schedule is quite busy right now in the spring with a lot of buyers, a lot of sellers, which is great. I mean, it’s it’s great for our business, but it’s still a bit of a weird time, right, we’ve got interest rates in kind of a weird spot, still have a lot of low inventory out there. So people that are trying to find the right home, it’s more difficult. And then we’ve got things going on with the industry in general that that are just making it a bit of a weird, weird market right now.

Tim Ulbrich 03:03

Absolutely. And before we get too deep into the topic, Nate for any of our listeners that are, you know, in the moment, looking to buy a home, looking to sell a home, wanting to make sure that they get out in front of this, or maybe even those for those that are listening to saying, Hey, this is a three month thing, a six month thing, we you and I both know how that goes. Things can move quickly. You know, we want to make sure they get connected to you and your services, what you offer through the Real Estate RPh concierge service, they can do that by going to yourfinancialpharmacists.com. We’ll talk more about this as we go throughout the episode at the end as well. Click on home buying and from there, you’ll see an option to find an agent get connected with eight and beyond your way for for this big decision. Certainly that that it is we want to make sure that they have the resources available to make a good decision.

Nate Hedrick 03:49

Yeah, it’s funny, we even I got an email just this morning from a client that they met with me in late January, we match them up with an agent within a couple of days. And within two weeks, they were under contract and they just closed. So like I mean, it was just, it’s lightning fast when you’re in that in that space. And even if you’re three months out, it all of a sudden those three months get eaten up. So better to schedule that early and get on the horn with us so we can get you in the right spot. So yeah, definitely check that out.

Tim Ulbrich 04:14

Nate, I’d be remiss if we didn’t ask you big news that came out this week settlement by the National Association of Realtors. Obviously, you as a real estate agent, if our listeners don’t already know that, potentially something that’s going to impact you impact the industry at large. There has been news flying around all about this headlines everywhere. And I think it’s one of those things. It’s hard to really assess like what actually is going on? What’s the impact right now? And what’s the potential future impact? And I know you and David just covered this on the Real Estate Investing Podcast, episode 118. We’ll link to that episode in the show notes so folks can dig deeper on this topic, but give it give us the Cliff Notes of what’s going on and where we’re at.

Nate Hedrick 04:55

Yeah, I think it’s definitely worthwhile to try to get away from the media noise for a second on this because what I’m seeing out there is all the headlines are speculating what this is going to do to the industry rather than what’s actually occurred. So the very brief version is that several months and even a couple of years ago, there was a lawsuit against the National Association of Realtors, by some parties that are part of a consumer advocacy group. And essentially, what they were alleging was that there was there’s some sort of price fixing going on that basically sellers were told, you had to offer a commission to buyer’s agents. And if you didn’t offer them 3%, or whatever, then like you couldn’t work together, right. And that’s, that’s not really true. And the NAR has basically said, like, we’re not admitting that we did that, because we haven’t been and they’re even in the settlement, they’ve admitted no wrongdoing at all. But essentially, that’s the allegation. And what is what they decided to do is, rather than continue to go through expensive litigation, the NAR has decided to settle and to make some changes, so they’re gonna pay out about $418 million dollars over the next four years to consumers. And then they’re gonna make some big changes in terms of how agents and the MLS can advertise and for, for commissions, so they are no longer able to advertise for buyer agent commissions, and buyers are going to have to work with and this is the big change for buyers out there, buyers are gonna have to work with an agent under a contract, you’re gonna have to have a contract in place with that agent. Gone will be the days of just showing up, writing an offer with whatever agent and then like figuring out the contract stuff later, like that is not going to work anymore. You’re going to have to be established with somebody, if you want to work with an agent, because the way we get paid is going to change basically. So it’s a lot of shake up. We don’t know exactly what’s going to happen yet. But some of those details are starting to come forward here and we’re at the end of March already. And it’s it’s, it’s heating up.

Tim Ulbrich 06:46

So for those that are listening, whether it’s you know, people that are looking right now or thinking about buying the spring or summer, you know, how much of that is going to impact them right now? Are we still in this wait, wait and see pattern of when some of the changes you’re talking about are going to take place?

Nate Hedrick 06:59

Yeah, so a lot of these changes will not go into effect until probably July and even beyond. That’s really the deadline they’ve established for this. I keep in mind again, as you and I sit here and record this, the court has not even accepted the settlement yet, right. The NAR has basically said this is what we’re interested in settling on, the court still has to accept that settlement. So a lot of this is to be determined anyway. But if it all shakes out the way that they’ve proposed, then July is when this will start to make a difference. And again, if it goes, if it goes the in a bad direction, I guess for buyers, I’ll put it that way. What will likely happen is that buyers are just going to have to be a little more savvy about about that early conversation with their agent. Who is paying, how am I paying? Am I paying? Is the seller paying? Like how are we negotiating that? And how does it affect my ability to put in offers because those are all things that are going to change in in some capacity here in the next couple of months.

Tim Ulbrich 07:52

So again, you and David covered this on episode 118 of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, deeper dive, we’ll make sure to link that in the show notes. And of course, we’ll keep the community up to date, as we have more information that is rolling out. And you know, we get past some of the short term news and the headlines and actually start to see some of the implementation of some of these things. So today’s theme, Nate is: Avoiding the Trap of House Poor: Evaluating the True Costs of of Home Ownership. And, you know, as you and I were planning for this episode, we were talking about, hey, for those that are looking, this is a good opportunity to make sure that that homebuying, that big rock that is a part of the financial plan, is put in the right context, right, about their goals that we’re trying to achieve, so that we have the room to do those things. But also for those that own, already own. You know, I talked with pharmacists on the regular that, you know, maybe they’re three years in, five years in, 10 years in, whatever it may be, and just over time expenses have increased. Maybe they’re perhaps still paying on student loans or other things, trying to save and invest more for retirement and really feeling like in that home, they’re in the situation where hey, I don’t have a whole lot of margin, I’m feeling house poor because of that. So whether someone is a hey, I’m going to buy or they currently own I think they’re gonna find this episode helpful. Now, I want to get your take on five things that I see on the regular that are financially impacting, you know, especially new graduates, but I think it transcends even beyond that in a much greater way than when I graduated back in 2008, than when you graduated as well. You know, first student loan debt, we’ve talked about that at length on the show. When you look at what graduates are coming out with is in terms of an average and what that means for a monthly payment. You know, that can be standard 10 year repayment on an average debt load, we’re looking at $1800 to $2,000 per month.

Second, of course, housing costs we’re gonna dig deep into that on today’s episode, but, you know, we’ve seen the rise in interest rates and the rise in home prices. We see the impact of that on a monthly payment. You put those two together, right, that’s a big portion of one’s take home pay. You know, we also see the third thing I’m thinking about is just car loans and interest rates on the car loans. Of course inflation is the fourth thing, although we’re starting to see that, you know, tamper down a little bit, and then five, I think one that we don’t talk enough about is childcare costs. And, you know, you know that well, and just the costs that come from, you know, daycare and other costs associated with with children and growing family. And so, you know, at the end of the day, what I want to get your take on is do pharmacists make a good income? And the answer is yes, objectively they do. Right? If you look at the median household income in the US, pharmacists make on average $50,000 or more above that. So objectively speaking, yes. However, when you start to add these things up, right, when you start to look at student loans, and housing costs, and childcare costs, etc, that’s where we often run into the situation of, hey, I make a good income, but I don’t feel like I’m progressing. I don’t feel like I have a whole lot of breathing room, because of some of these big pieces of the puzzle that can have an impact on the financial plan. So thoughts from your seat individually living this, and then certainly working with many pharmacists that are in that position, looking to buy trying to figure out how the house budget fits into the rest of the plan?

Nate Hedrick 11:06

Yeah, I mean, you’re spot on, right? I live this every day, just as another pharmacist also owning a home, right? You have to kind of account for all those costs. And it can feel like you get to the end of the month, and every bucket has been taken up by something. And you’re like, okay, how many, you know, how many pennies do I have left to rub together? Right? It’s just, it can feel like that, right? Especially if you’ve not set yourself up for success. And so I definitely feel that on my own personal finances, but then I also see with clients to where they will I see this all the time where someone will look at a neighborhood or look at an area of the country. And they don’t even ask the question about budget, they just say we need three bedrooms. And where I’m looking at $800,000. And the question is not, can I afford an $800,000 house. It’s just, that’s what we need. And so that’s what we’re gonna buy. And I think that’s really easy to get into, right? Like we love where we live. And that’s not unreasonable. But rarely do we step back and evaluate? Okay, am I okay with paying more to live in this particular location? Or, you know, should I consider a relocation? Or should I consider sizing down and having the kids share a bedroom? Like, all those things are not questions that I often hear. It’s usually, how can I push this? How can I lower that down payment? How can I get away from this expenses now and push those push those things down the road? So I think we’re kind of geared toward that. And having these conversations like you and I are having is how you start to reset that that metric a little bit.

Tim Ulbrich 12:33

Yeah. And I think one thing that I hear there, Nate, which is hard to implement, is just some of the mindset around these decisions. No judgment here whatsoever. Remember, Jess and I talked at length about, you know, we had an expectation coming out that we’re going to buy our first home, at the level which my parents took 20, 25, 30 years to get to, like, you know, and that was where our mindset was, and we made several decisions and some mistakes along the way. And, you know, we probably purchased before we were ready, not sure we really had enough, you know, down in the home, we ended up paying PMI that I didn’t understand how that was structured in a loan. You know, if we had more time, I could give you the list. Right? But but the point being, is I think there is a mindset component here. And you know, sometimes we don’t necessarily like the outcome or the decision when we look at the numbers. But what we’re trying to do, as we talk about this, is really take a step back and say, hey, how does the home purchase fit as one piece of this bigger puzzle, and human behavior, myself included, I think you included as well, as we want to go into the silos and make financial decisions. And especially when talk about home purchase, it’s exciting. It’s emotional, right? There’s a lot of things that are involved. But when we’re talking about a rock that we’re going to put in place that might take 25, 30, 35, 40% of our take home pay, and we’re fixed in that for 30 years, okay, we’ve really got to do due diligence, so that we make sure when we look at other parts of the financial plan, right, saving, investing for the future, pursuing other financial goals, making sure we’ve got breathing room, making sure we have margin to experience and to give and to do other parts of the plan. And so naturally, Nate, the next question is, well, if we’re talking about trying to prevent this, what is that affordability calculation? Like as you think about it, in your own plan, or in working with, you know, other buyers as well? How do you think about what what is that number? You know, is it is it a percentage of take home pay, is it you know, obviously, the what the individual thinks it is versus what the bank thinks it is, can be two very different things. Talk us through that a little bit further.

Nate Hedrick 12:34

I think that you could Google, “how much house can I afford?” and get 72 different answers, right, with all these calculators and metrics and back of the napkin math ideas, and the answer is there is no answer. However, you hit the nail on the head a minute ago and said, avoiding thinking about this decision as a silo, right? I think it’s very easy for people to say, well, I read, you could get 25% of your money toward housing. So we’re just going to do that. And that’s our number. And that’s it. Right? Or 30%, or pick, pick your favorite number, right? Where I think that becomes a problem is that especially like ourselves, right? When I, when I came out of school, a ton of student loan debt, those numbers are not accurate for somebody with a ton of student loan debt, they’re not accurate for a ton of credit card debt, they’re not accurate. If you’ve got, you know, childcare expenses that are going to be cropping up down the road, like all those things can can drastically affect those numbers. And so what I like to do, or what I advise my clients do, is to do something like the 50-30-20, which I can cover in a second, but but something that it doesn’t matter which one it is, as long as you’re taking all of your expenses as a as a bigger piece, right? So what I like about the 50-30-20 rule is that 50% of your money goes toward needs; 30% toward wants and 20% toward net worth building. And what I like, especially about that, is that that big piece of the pie that 50% It’s all your needs, food, car, medical expenses, childcare expenses, like whatever those things are, if you have to have them, then you have to include it in a number. And if all those numbers are already big, like what if your need is student loan payment, right, I have to pay that every single month, I can just avoid that. So it gets factored into that. And it can adjust those housing numbers down rather than just picking a flat 25% or whatever. So I like tools that have that much more broad look, rather than trying to silo things out and saying 10% should go towards your car and 20% toward your house, because I just don’t think they work for everybody. And I think they’re too they’re too broad.

Tim Ulbrich 16:39

Yeah, and I think to your point there, Nate, you know, obviously, everyone’s situation is different. And even, you know, let’s take two, two student loan borrowers, right, both have $200,000 of debt, how they pursue their loan repayment strategy could drastically impact the cash flow they have, right? If one person says, hey, I want to aggressively pay these off in five, seven years, the other person is on a public service loan forgiveness strategy on an income driven repayment plan, where they’re trying to maximize tax free forgiveness- night and day of what are they actually putting out towards the student loans in terms of cash flow? And what what do they have available? You know, other things I think about in terms of where are they at in terms of savings and retirement plans and goals? You know, so is, is pharmacy a second career, and they’re trying to play a little bit of catch up on retirement? Are they thinking early retirement? And maybe you need to save a little bit more aggressive, right? So so many factors that go into this equation, but I think using something like you’re suggesting is a good place, because it helps us figure out, okay, how does this payment fit into that bucket into that 50%? And I’m guessing we often get that number, we’re like, hey, we don’t like it. We don’t like what, you know, the budget is going to support it. And I think that that’s really where the rubber meets the road. But what’s helpful about that is 99 out of 100 times when you’re running your own numbers and trying to figure out what is that housing cost within that 50%. Typically, the banks can approve you for much more than that. Right. And so they’re the the take home point being is that they’re not concerned about your 50-30-20 budget in the same way that the individual would be correct.

Nate Hedrick 18:13

Spot on. Right. I never forget the first time that Kristen and I got approved for a mortgage. And the bank was like, Well, how much house you want to buy? And we’re like, I don’t know, how much can like, what will you give us? And they just do this, this quick math. And it’s like, here you can afford $600,000. And I think our budget at the time was like $250. But like, they don’t care, right, they’re looking at the numbers very differently. They’re just looking at some of the debts that you have, they don’t care if you have $0 leftover at the end of the month, the goal is to make sure that you can make those payments and just make those payments. And so that’s how they’re going to set it. So you have to be your own advocate when it comes to setting that budget and not letting the bank do it for you.

Tim Ulbrich 18:51

Yeah, I always say Nathan, the bank is looking out for themselves have a foreclosure risk? They’re not looking out for are you on track to achieve all your other financial goals? And how does this purchase, that’s an ill intent, that’s just the way the way the system is set up, and then them mitigating the risks that they need to mitigate. So you know, I think the natural follow up then, Nate, and here we are, you know, we probably should have started here that, you know, we’re not having to buy a home in 2024 where homes are at the prices they are and interest rates are where they are so different time right then when we bought a home and it’s worth saying, but the natural counterpoint is, well, I don’t want to rent either, you know, rent has been going up we know the what the data has shown in terms of rent prices going up over time and you know, I feel like I’m I’m just throwing money down the drain. I’m not building equity, right. I’m not building equity if I don’t have a house. So what do you say to that person who really feels like yeah, I hear you. Like it’s too much in terms of the percentage of my take home pay are within that budgeting system you just described, but also feel like it’s not like wrench deep. Right. And I really feel like I’m not necessarily building any equity as we continue to rent.

Nate Hedrick 20:01

I think it’s tough because some of this, at some point comes down to more of an emotional decision, right? Like, it’s just I’m sick of renting. Even if financially like, you still need to stay in that boat for a little bit, while longer just if you do the math, it’s hard to make that decision, right? I mean, I absolutely get that and I was in the same boat that you were like, we probably bought sooner than we should have. We just wanted to buy, we kind of made it work, right. But at the same time, we kept our budget very reasonable, so that we could do that, right, there are ways to mitigate that risk. If that’s the choice you want to make, right? You, you can do it, if you aren’t pushing everything, right, you’ve got to take some compromises somewhere else. So if you’re looking at it, you’re saying, look, we have to be in a home, I don’t want to be renting anymore, well, then you gotta choose an area where the home prices are affordable. I mean, just that’s all there is to it. Right? If you are a new practitioner in downtown San Francisco, and the homes are $1.5 million and above, like, it’s just not as viable as Cleveland, Ohio, where I’m from right or something like that. So you have to be able to take some sort of compromise. If you sit there and say, look, the the overall goal is to be in a home that we own. And you have to find a way to do that. It’s not just in it has to be in this market and has to be six bedrooms, and it has to be 400,000 square feet and all this right, it just you have to be able to adapt, and then do the there are other ways to get creative, too, right? Think about house hacking, for example, buying a property that you can have somebody else renting out with you, then you can mitigate some of those costs. Or looking for down payment assistance programs that are out there, right? There are a ton of grant programs for new graduates that help with down payment assistance, like you can get creative. You just have to go out and do that. Right. I think the old Rich Dad Poor Dad adage, it’s not I can’t afford a house. It’s how can I afford a house? And sometimes you have to get creative how you do that.

Tim Ulbrich 21:50

I think that, you know, it’s the creativity is an important part of that. I think this comes back to mindset you know as well. I think there’s a script that many of us have been told, I know that I don’t remember my parents saying this, it was just something I always believe, which is rent is bad. Homeownership is good. And, you know, as with most things, right, there’s, there’s more than option A and B. And when we look at homeownership, depending on your situation, depending on the part of the country you’re living in, depending on cash you have available for down payment depending on rent rates, right, you know. Ramit Sethi talks a lot about this on his podcast living in I think he’s in New York City, where it’s like, doesn’t make sense, like, you know, continuing to rent in certain markets, like, yeah, it does make sense. And you’ve got to figure out to your point, other parts of the plan, we’re sure maybe he’s not building, you know, equity in the home, which for many people becomes one of the greatest assets they have as a part of their financial plan. But for him, and for others, in higher cost of living areas, you adjust and pivot, you know, and figure out what that looks like.

Nate Hedrick 22:45

It’s funny, you mentioned that I was even just talking to a pharmacist two weeks or three weeks ago, and he rents right now, he wants to buy his first house, but he wants it to be an investment property. So he’s buying in a different location continuing to rent, so you can build equity in a home, just not the home that he’s living in. So he’s still getting into the real estate game, but not doing in a way where he’s making a bad decision just because of where he wants to live. Right. So there’s, there’s a lot of ways to get creative, I wish that we could just do it all up front, but you have to kind of pick and choose when it comes to your financial plan.

Tim Ulbrich 23:16

I like that, Nate. Creativity, I feel like it’s something we’re often lacking in, in the financial plan, right, because we see a path maybe that our parents had or others had, and it’s option A option B. But typically, there’s there’s more than than just those two. Let’s talk about some of the about surprise, but maybe costs it often gets overlooked or underestimated, especially for people that are going through this, you know, the first time you know. I remember vividly, I’ve shared on the show before Jess and I bought our first home and these numbers are laughable now saying them out loud in today’s market, but 2008/2009. So then post residency, we were paying rent $1,100 a month, I remember writing that check every single month for a townhome. We were looking to buy a home and you know, I went did the principal and interest calculations. I don’t think I factored in taxes, insurance. Maybe I did. And I remember seeing it was going to be somewhere right around there actually a little bit less. And like that was the end of my analytics. It was like buy, buy buy. And you know, I think that that’s very common, you know, that you look at, hey, what’s going to be my monthly payment, principal interest. Maybe people are thinking about property taxes and insurance. But that’s really the table stakes. Right? That’s the starting point. But talk to us about maybe those other things, either short term or long term that tend to catch people off guard, where sure, maybe that payment starts at 25% of take home pay but we quickly realize if it’s all in cost, it’s actually a lot lot more.

Nate Hedrick 24:43

I mean, I think you nailed it with the insurance and taxes. I did the exact same thing you did. I ignored them and pretended like they weren’t there and then also the bill showed up I’m like what was I thinking? But you’re right there are a number of other things. I’ll never forget we moved into our our very first his house. And one of the one of the reasons they moved again, this is why home buying is emotional. One of the reasons we moved is we wanted to space for our dog. We had a one year old dog wanted some space for her, wanted some space for ourselves. And so we’re like, oh, let’s get this big yard. Well, the very first thing we did when we moved in was like, shoot, we need a fence. And so we’re like, well, we got a fence in the whole thing. And we have, we’ve over like an acre, we have actually almost two acres. And so we wanted to fence in an acre and all of a sudden it was like a $10,000 fence. And it’s like man – nowhere like that would have covered rent for a whole year at the old place. But we didn’t even factor that in because you just it’s just the stuff that you don’t think about. So it’s everything like that. I mean, I think it’s this the surprises, the things you don’t anticipate. But it’s also the regular stuff, you know. Stuff breaks, water heater goes down, a washing machine, dishwasher, and all those things, you don’t have a maintenance department to call anymore. You have to you know the landlord to check in with right you have to fix it yourself and get it taken care of. So I think I think those are the some of the big things. The other thing that I think creeps up and it’s on top of mine right now for me because we do this thing here in Cuyahoga County in Cleveland, Ohio, where every three years, the county assessor will come out and they’ll reassess property values, and then they’ll adjust your taxes as a result. Super nice. Not not like that everywhere. Some places, they lock you into that lower rate, but we get reassessed every three years. And so every three years, my property taxes go up in some fashion. And sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less, but it’s always on the up. So even if we did that math nine, almost 10 years ago, right? It all worked out, then things have gotten more expensive, right. And so it’s, it’s all those little things that start to creep up over time that you don’t have the backup plan for. Now, I will say this, rent has also been increasing. So it’s not like everything’s immune to that, right. You might have started renting a place for $1,000 a month, or $1100 dollars a month. And now it’s 15. Right. And so that that’s, that’s still there as well and has to be factored in. But with a home, it just feels like all of it is on your shoulders. And it’s really just when it comes down, you have to be the one to take care of it.

Tim Ulbrich 27:00

And I had the same thought. We had a reassessment, actually, both on the commercial property, which was outrageous, but on the primary home, it was not as bad, but it got me thinking the same line of thinking you are, which is the tendency when we buy and even again, no judgment when we bought our second home here in Columbus, you know, I remember those conversations where Jess and I were kind of looking at, okay, where where do we want to be monthly payment wise, that we really feel like we’re comfortable within the budget, but you’re thinking about it in that moment in time. Right. And, you know, hopefully, incomes are going up to help offset this. But this is one of the challenges we’re seeing, I think in some sectors of our profession is that they’re not or if they are and you factor in inflation and other costs, maybe they’re not to the degree that we actually think they are even if that number is going up. And so you look at things like property taxes. Homeowners insurance is something that’s kicked up here in the last couple years more significantly, and I think we’re going to continue to see that. And then you highlighted well, you know, the fence example that’s given. We did the same thing. We didn’t have that big of a fence. But you know, I remember it was a fence, it was repairing the deck, it was the lawn maintenance, it was because we never owned a home before, you know, all of the lawn equipment, things that you had to get for the first time and, you know, obviously furniture, you look at the home and you’re like, Oh, it’s fine. We like it. And then you get in and it’s like, well, you know, what about this? And you know, what about that, and those things seems small. But you know, those add up quickly. And it goes back to the theme of where we’ve been going throughout the episode, which is, hey, will you go back to your 50-30-20 or whatever type of budgeting system you’re using, you know, margin breathing room, knowing that up is going to be the trend, whether it’s property taxes, homeowners insurance, upkeep, remodeling the home, a roof, hot water, tank, AC, whatever, it’s gonna go up, and we want to have margin to be able to plan and save for those expenses.

Nate Hedrick 27:01

If you want a way to ensure that you’re financially less stressed, build in that margin upfront. It just makes it so much easier when you have that surprise, like if you have $1,000 water heater that needs to be replaced, but you’ve built in $1000 extra dollars in your budget every month. It’s just a blip. Like you don’t have to have this emergency fund that you’re cracking open and like it just it feels so much easier to have those those bumps because it’s not consistent. Like that’s the biggest thing with homeownership is – it nothing is consistent, every month is going to be different no matter what you do. And building in some of that margin building in that that error is just a great way to de stress that whole process.

Tim Ulbrich 28:53

Yeah, I think what we’re really trying to prevent is we you know, talk about the theme here of avoiding the trap of being house poor and really evaluating all these costs that we don’t achieve one goal at the expense of a bunch of others. So you know homeownership has a ton of value. We’ve talked about it on the show before. We’re both big believers in homeownership and that it has tremendous value but also we don’t want to be in that home and then like hey, we were stressed about taking the trip or the vacation or stressed about you know not being able to stay on track with retirement or other goals along the way as well. Utilities, Nate, is another one I was just thinking about our utilities keep creeping up. And it feels like that’s another one that you look back two three years and you’re like, wait a minute, what’s, what’s the heating bill? Compared to what it was?

Nate Hedrick 30:14

I have a good story about that, too. I don’t know if I’ve told this on the podcast before but early on, when we lived in our house, the water company wanted to install this wireless water meter. And I got like one letter about it. And it was like, hey, call us schedule a time for us to come out install this wireless reader that way we can see remotely like what your water usage is, and like, we’ll come out and install it. It’s free, just let us know. And I ignored it because I was busy and everything else. And so we stopped getting water bills. And I didn’t notice. And then about a year and a half in of like that, that notice coming? I was like, Man, are we even going to water bill No, in a while. So I logged in. And I cannot believe to this day, I cannot believe that didn’t stop our water. We were over $1,200 behind. I think my agenda is we just I hadn’t been paying attention to it. And it wasn’t an auto bill. And so like one of those $1,000 bumps that just showed up. So I mean, again, I’m shocked they never turned off our water. But that was that was an example of that creep from the utility company for sure.

Tim Ulbrich 31:16

Surprised they weren’t knocking on your door.

Nate Hedrick 31:17

I know, right?

Tim Ulbrich 31:18

So speaking of…you made me think… hey, this is good story hour when Nate and Tim, but as we’re talking about cost of home ownership you don’t expect. I don’t know if I told you this one – a few years ago. So in our basement, we’ve never had a water softener system. So and, and full disclaimer, I am inept, completely inept when it comes to anything. So just keep that in mind for anyone who’s judging me as we’re talking about this. So never had a water softening system. The boys- we’ve got four boys are constantly down there throwing balls or whatever. Well, for those that have one, you know, there’s a backwash valve that will come on periodically to flush the system. Well, they had hit the backwash valve. And I don’t know you’re not down there enough? I’m not paying attention. I don’t even know what this thing is. Is it doing you know, whatever. So come to find out like it had turned on. It’s just been running. I don’t know for how long it’s been running. So I realized this, and then sure enough, like, I might have been a week, 10 days later, I get a bill for $4000. And I call it the and for those that have looked at your water sewer bill. Any water usage you’re using, you’re doubling up as sewers. So I call the Franklin County Department of sanitary engineering and I’m like, hey, listen, this is what happened. You’re not gonna believe it. I get it. I’m an idiot. And I was like, hey, I’ll I’ll write a check tomorrow, if you let me pay $2,000. And they were like, super gracious.

Nate Hedrick 31:21

Wow, cool.

Tim Ulbrich 31:27

Yeah. And so again, write things that come up that you’re just like, I never thought that this expense might actually exist. Jess and I have a running mental log of all of the damage slash expenses that have happened as a result of the boys.

Nate Hedrick 32:59

You can present that to my graduation, like oh great you owe me this now.

Tim Ulbrich 33:03

And here’s the opportunity cost. Another thing I want to acknowledge as we’re talking about affordability of home, we’re talking about some more of those ongoing costs. But also, not all downpayments, right, are created equal depending on the loan type. And not that we need to get into all the different types of loans. We’ve talked about it before in the show. But I just want to emphasize this, especially for the for the first time homebuyers, you know, there’s a range from 0% to something more conventional on 20%. But when you’re talking about a three, four or $500,000, home or more, there’s a big difference in terms of house affordability. So any thoughts or wisdom you’d have there to share based on your your conversation with clients and what they’re expecting maybe coming in of a down payment? And then as they learn to navigate this a little bit further?

Nate Hedrick 33:50

I think the most people that they’ve talked to especially like their parents, right, I think most people assume or think that they’ve got to have 20% down to buy a home. The reality is, there’s a ton of different programs out there and you don’t need anywhere near 20% down. And you can still do that lower down payment without too much of a penalty, right. There are certainly situations where you’re going to have to pay a little more in terms of either interest rate or private mortgage insurance, things like that. But there are a number of awesome programs out there that can help with down payment assistance, that can lower the downpayment that’s required and still have a competitive interest rate. The real trick I guess, at this point is to one talk to an agent that actually knows what they’re doing, working with these types of clients that can help with with finding a good lender. Or talk to a lender that knows these products inside and out. There’s a lender that I work with regularly that has like a lineup of programs that he can push people into of like, Hey, you’re a nurse, awesome. You get you qualify for the Ohio Heroes program. Let’s get you into that. Or you’re a firefighter you get you know, Ohio Heroes. You’re a recent graduate. Great here you qualify for this new grad program. It gives you $5,000, no questions asked. Like so there are programs out there there are things to help with that. And I think a lot of people just go in assuming, well, I gotta find 20% down, or I’m gonna pay a ton of money. And that’s my only choice. And there really are a lot more options out there.

Tim Ulbrich 35:09

I think to your point, you know, that relationship with an agent, that relationship with a lender, really important. Options is what I hear there too, right? I think it’s easy to get sucked into a option without kind of looking across the board and making sure you’re looking at everything. Down payment is a factor, obviously, competitive interest rates, there’s a lot going on with points and things right now making sure that you’re actually really looking at the full aspect of the product. And that is transparent, because sometimes it can be hard to compare apples to apples, you know, some offers, I’ve seen this a lot, where people in one case are looking at a rate and it has point reductions and other cases it doesn’t, and they’re not necessarily, you know, seeing the comparison and difference there. I sprinkle this into the beginning, I’m gonna come back to it again, for those that are, you know, looking to buy now or in the future. We’ve partnered with you and your real estate concierge service now for many years, and love what you’re doing to help out homebuyers. Tell us more about what is all involved in that and where folks can go to learn more?

Nate Hedrick 36:07

I mean, all of a sudden we’ve been talking about right? It’s it’s a lot to wrap your head around, and we’re only scraping the surface of all the stuff there is to know and things to navigate and everybody’s situation is unique. Right? You might be sitting there listening to this right now and thinking, well, we’ve got this and you don’t even talked about that, like what what do I do, right? And so having somebody on your team, I think is really important. And that’s that’s why we created the concierge service to begin with is to have that sort of team mentality around it, and give you somebody in your corner that that has experienced helping navigate whatever it is. So the way the program works is that you basically go to my website, we’ve mentioned that before. And you can sign up for a free call with me, do a 30 minute jumpstart planning call where we can ask and answer a lot of those questions that you have, get you connected with a fantastic agent, gets you connected with a great lender if you need it. Whatever we need to do to get you off and running in the right direction, right. And that might be that you’re ready to buy now. And you’re like, hey, we just have been popping on Zillow help us out. Or it might be that you’re nine months down the road, and you’re just starting to plan things out. Both of those are great times to connect with us. So it’s a completely free service. We don’t charge anything for that. We just again, try to offer a way to help people navigate this very complicated process with somebody that’s experienced it and lived and breathed it for several years now.

Tim Ulbrich 37:26

Great stuff, Nate. Two ways you can get there, you can go directly to realestaterph.com. We’ll link to that in the show notes. You can also go to yourfinancialpharmacist.com. You’ll see an option for home buying at the top, and then you click on “Find an agent” and we’ll get to that same exact place and then you can book a call with Nate to continue that discussion. Nate, great stuff as always. I look forward to having you back on the show throughout the year. I know we’re do some webinar stuff as well. So to our community, make sure you be on the lookout for information we’re gonna have forthcoming as it relates to some home buying materials, webinars and future episodes as well. Thanks, Nate.

Nate Hedrick 37:57

Thanks, Tim.

Tim Ulbrich 37:58

Nate and I have covered a ton of information in this podcast. So imagine working with Nate one on one through your home buying journey and having his support to give you much needed peace of mind. We know many pharmacists want to feel confident about big financial decisions, including a home purchase. So if you have fears of being house poor, concerns about the impact a home purchase might have on your other financial goals, Nate and his home buying concierge service can help all at no cost to you. You can visit realestaterph.com or click on the link in the show notes to schedule your FREE 30 minute jumpstart planning session with Nate.

Tim Ulbrich 38:36

DISCLAIMER: As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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YFP 337: Key Real Estate Trends for Homebuyers in 2024 with Tony Umholtz

Posted on by YFP Media

Join Tony Umholtz from First Horizon Bank as he forecasts 2024 housing market trends and offers expert insights. Sponsored by First Horizon Bank.

Episode Summary

With inflationary pressures historically high and inventory tight, many people are feeling understandably nervous about the housing market as 2023 comes to a close. But what can homeowners and homebuyers expect in 2024? To help us answer this question, we are joined once again by Tony Umholtz, a mortgage loan officer with First Horizon Bank. In this episode, we tap into Tony’s 20-plus years of experience in the industry to get his input on current trends in the housing market, what makes this cycle different from 2008-2009, the correlation between presidential election years and interest rates, and what prospective homebuyers should be doing right now to get ready to buy a home in the new year, plus so much more! For a comprehensive overview of the key market trends that pharmacists and healthcare professionals need to consider when buying a home, be sure to tune in today. Episode sponsored by First Horizon Bank.

About Today’s Guest

Tony Umholtz graduated Cum Laude from the University of South Florida with a B.S. in Finance from the Muma College of Business. He then went on to complete his MBA. While at USF, Tony was part of the inaugural football team in 1997. He earned both Academic and AP All-American Honors during his collegiate career. After college, Tony had the opportunity to sign contracts with several NFL teams including the Tennessee Titans, New York Giants, and the New England Patriots. Being active in the community is also important to Tony. He has served or serves as a board member for several charitable and non-profit organizations including board member for the Salvation Army, FCA Tampa Bay, and the USF National Alumni Association. Having orchestrated over $1.1 billion in lending volume during his career, Tony has consistently been ranked as one of the top mortgage loan officers in the industry by the Scotsman’s Guide, Mortgage Executive magazine, and Mortgage Originator magazine.

Key Points From the Episode

Key market trends for pharmacists and healthcare professionals looking to buy a home.
How this cycle differs from the global economic crisis of 2008.
A reminder to maintain perspective when it comes to affordability in today’s market.
Why you shouldn’t necessarily wait for interest rates to fall before you buy.
Some of the ways that the presidential election might affect mortgage rates.
Tony’s take on the consolidation of lenders and what trends to expect going forward.
Getting on strong financial footing and other tips for preparing to buy a home in 2024.
What you need to know about the National Association of Realtors (NAR) commissions ruling.
Recommendations for getting your pre-approval process started.
Insight into the First Horizon Pharmacist Home Loan.

Episode Highlights

“Every market is different, every challenge is different.” — Tony Umholtz [0:07:43]

“Don’t just buy to buy – Buy if you find a home that suits your family and your needs.” — Tony Umholtz [0:13:57]

“Making sure that, overall, you’re on strong footing financially – is the right thing to do.” — Tony Umholtz [0:23:42]

“Your timeline depends on when you’re looking. If it’s in the summer, May, or June, then maybe you wait until after the new year to get an actual pre-approval. But it’s never too early in my opinion.” — Tony Umholtz [0:29:02]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I welcome back onto the show, Tony Umholtz, a mortgage loan officer with First Horizon Bank. During the show, I tap into Tony’s 20-plus years of experience in the industry to get his input on current trends in the housing market, what makes this cycle different than 2008/2009, his take on the connection between presidential election years and interest rates, and what prospective homebuyers can be doing right now to get ready for buying a home in 2024.

Okay. Let’s hear from today’s sponsor, First Horizon, and then we’ll jump into my interview with Tony Umholtz.

[SPONSOR MESSAGE]

[0:00:41] TU: Does saving 20% for a down payment on a home feel like an uphill battle? It’s no secret that pharmacists have a lot of competing financial priorities, including high student loan debt, meaning that saving 20% for a down payment on a home may take years. We’ve been on a hunt for a solution for pharmacists that are ready to purchase a home loan with a lower down payment and are happy to have found that option with First Horizon.

First Horizon offers a professional home loan option aka doctor or pharmacist home loan that requires a 3% down payment for a single-family home, or townhome for first-time home buyers, has no PMI and offers a 30-year fixed rate mortgage on home loans up to $726,200. The pharmacist home loan is available in all states, except Alaska and Hawaii, and can be used to purchase condos as well. However, rates may be higher and a condo review has to be completed.

To check out the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan and to start the pre-approval process, visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

[EPISODE]

[0:01:52] TU: Tony, welcome back to the show.

[0:01:55] ToU: Hey, thanks for having me, Tim. Good to be here.

[0:01:58] TU: Excited for this conversation. We’re going to pick your brain, tap into your expertise, Tony, on what you’re seeing in terms of current market trends. We’ll talk about what may be ahead in 2024, especially for those that are making the decision or want to make the decision to buy a home early in 2024. And then we’ll wrap up by talking about the pharmacist home loan option as one option that pharmacists may consider as they’re looking at some lending solutions for buying a home.

Let’s talk about current market trends. I think every time we’ve talked on the show in the last year or two, we’ve said something along the lines of, hey, this is a crazy market. This is a weird market. Here we are, end of ’23, it seems like interest rates are starting to stabilize a little bit. But we’re heading into a new year, obviously, market volatility. We’re going into a presidential election year.

What are you seeing right now, Tony, as your boots on the ground working with many other pharmacists and healthcare professionals that are looking to buy a home?

[0:02:53] ToU: It truly is a unique year in a lot of ways. I know we’ve said that before. The one thing about the mortgage industry and the real estate industry is ever-changing. It’s constantly changing, and you’ve got to constantly adapt in our industry. It’s constantly evolving. Some things that are just truly unique right now is obviously interest rates, how quickly they’ve risen. I think it’s the fastest they’ve risen since the 70s. They definitely are meeting some resistance now. It’s not to say they can’t keep climbing higher, but we’ve seen a little bit of a pullback here recently, primarily based on the consumer price index numbers, which have been slowly coming down.

We’re getting to that threshold where lenders, like in the lending world, when we look to sell a loan to Fannie Freddie, or to some dealer, or investor, they don’t see rates going any higher. So they’re not paying a premium for higher coupons, which are rates. You can kind of see that we’re kind of getting towards the top here, but it’s just a truly unique time.

I think there’s other headwinds here. I don’t want to dive too deep yet, but we’ve got to be careful because we may not be out of the woods. I mean, the fiscal stability of the US is another thing we really have to watch, because bonds could be priced, government debt and rates could really be priced based on the solvency of the US government and the debt ceiling. Getting through these debt ceilings and the debt ballooning like it is could be a pressure on rates in the future.

[0:04:22] TU: Yes. One of the things I love, Tony, about your perspective when you come on the show is, just giving us some of the macroeconomic considerations of what’s happening. There’s what we know now, and then there’s what may or may not happen in the future.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about is, knowing the experience you have 20 plus years in the industry, knowing you’ve lived through some of the cycles that we’ve seen,’08, ’09 is the one that kind of jumps out to me that that was a very challenging season for many. Obviously, we saw the impact on real estate, we saw the impact in terms of foreclosures that happened in that period. What makes this cycle different than what you saw back in ’08, ’09?

[0:05:02] ToU: In ’08, ’09, it was such a challenging time, and I got into the business right after the 9/11 pullbacks, was a little bit of a recession there too. But the ’08, ’09 was just devastating, especially in the southeast, in Florida where I’m located. We saw some property values get cut in half. But the dynamics were completely different than they are today. We had an oversupply, overbuilding of homes. We had mass speculation. In the run-up to that, you had clients that could get as many mortgages as they wanted based upon a credit score. There was no fundamentals, there wasn’t a debt-to-income ratio.

There was mass speculation, people building homes based on credit, may not have had even down payments. So it was just it was completely a bubble driven by both speculation and easy money, right? When ’08 and ’09 came, and the crash came, we still were very busy. There was a lot of inventory. Now, granted, a lot of the transactions were short sales. Lots of people wanted to refinance because rates started falling into recession. But the challenge was that a lot of folks would have to come to the table with money to refinance because the loan-to-values didn’t change. The market corrected like that. The government came in and put different policies in place. But it was amazing how the market corrected. Investors would not buy certain things. It happened very, very quickly.

Then, of course, the regulations stepped up. The regulations that were put in place post ’08 and ’09 have really helped make – now, it made lending very tough, and buying a home very difficult, but it’s loosened some since then, but not a lot. So you still have to show a very tight debt-to-income ratio, credit scores are important. All these things are important in buying a home. So it’s made the credit side of the housing market much more healthy.

Now, we basically had from 2010, to 2020, and even 2021, we were underbuilt as a nation, like our population was growing. But we weren’t building enough homes to keep up with that. I mean, so many builders went out of business in that timeframe. I knew really good builders who pretty much – who had been in business for decades before that pretty much shut down for a number of years before they reemerged. We were underbuilt all those years.

Now, we’re in a situation where we don’t have enough inventory, right? We have more demand for housing. This crisis is different in a lot of ways. It’s more of an interest rate-driven crisis, right? It’s driven by interest rates being high and not enough inventory. Those are the two issues we run into today. Every market is different, every challenge is different. That past cycle, in ’08 and ’09, was just a rational exuberance in lending, and then in construction, it was crazy. Everyone was just building to build, there were investors lined up.

I remember clients coming to me, Tim, saying, “I just got my name picked in the lottery,” and basically, all they were going to do is flip that house. They were going to put their number in, and they were going to flip the house when it was done. I can’t count how many of them did that. There was so many of them who did that. A lot of them got burned at the end. They got in there, the home finally was built. Then the property values fell. Now, they did come back over time. Now, we’re in a situation where we just don’t have enough inventory, and that’s the biggest challenge now, and the affordability with rates being high, and the combination –

[0:08:39] TU: I was just thinking about affordability, Tony, as you were talking. Thinking about many of our listeners, especially those that are on the front end of the career, maybe first-time homebuyers, it’s a totally different world out there than when I graduated in 2008. I think about today’s graduates. We now have student loans that are turned back on after a three-plus-year freeze on interest rates and payments. If they have other fixed expenses, like car notes and payments, obviously, interest rates have gone up. Now, we look at what’s happening in mortgage rates. Not just on the interest rate, but also in terms of the home prices and appreciation.

What you could buy if you think about in terms of a monthly payment, which is what a lot of people are looking at in the context of the budget, what you could buy three, four, or five years ago, very different, in terms of what you can buy today, and especially when you factor in not only is the monthly payment only going to go so far but obviously, home prices have gone up in that period as well.

What I’m hearing a lot of anecdotally, Tony is, people that are looking at their interest rate and saying, “Whether it was those that were first-time homebuyers or last decade that maybe they thought this was their starter home, and now they’re looking at, and saying, “I ain’t moving. I’m not trading my 3% rate for an 8% rate.” So they’re kind of staying in the home longer, maybe they’re spending more of their money on remodeling the home, and doing other projects, or spending it elsewhere, instead of moving.

Then, those that maybe are in that phase where they’re nearing retirement, maybe thinking about downsizing, going from a two-story to a one-story home, and they’re looking at the same thing. If we don’t have to, can we wait so that we don’t trade our 3% rate for an 8% rate? I think that’s obviously furthering the issues around supply.

[0:10:21] ToU: Absolutely. Absolutely. There’s no doubt about it. There’s a lot of pent-up demand. I mean, we all feel it. Families are growing. There’s more additions to the family. Even extended family moving in. All these things are happening now, Tim, and it’s pent up. In talking to a couple veteran real estate agents that I know, that had been in the industry 20 plus years, their thoughts to me were – you can get a better deal on a house right now. Yes, it’s expensive, but you’re going to get a much better deal on a home right now in the current climate. And most people see rates coming down in the future when refinancing and affordability comes back.

Definitely a very, very challenging time, obviously. I mean, the one thing that I would say, I don’t want to discredit the student loans and everything that’s going on. But just looking back at the ’08, ’09, 2010 crisis, the job market was not nearly as healthy as it is now. We all have to remember that. We look back at history, and we think we may have it so tough. But I always look back, and my gosh, my dad had it way tougher than me. When my grandfather was alive, and I’d speak to him about what he went through, his perspective hit home, working three jobs. All the things he did, it was just a different time. Yes, things were cheaper, but wages weren’t where they were, and opportunities weren’t where they were.

We look back and I look at ’08, ’09, and the job market was not near as healthy as it is today. So there’s much more opportunity for people right now. It’s an overabundance of opportunity to be employed, but the costs are higher. Part of that’s inflationary, part of that was – we don’t want to get into all the details, but there certainly is an issue with the cost. I do think you’ll see slowly the rates come back to normal. Rates should not be this high. They should be – it should be 5% to 6% on a 30-year. that’s probably where they should be. That changes a lot of numbers in the sevens. I mean, it changes things quickly.

[0:12:29] TU: Let’s talk about that for a moment, Tony, because you said something earlier about pent-up demand. And when you’re talking about 5%, 6% rates, if, which is a big if, but if we see that transition happening, that pent-up demand, there’s going to be an explosion of buyers into the market, which further challenges the supply and demand issue. I think, as we were talking offline before we hit record, I think the tendency, especially of a first-time homebuyer in this type of market is to say, wait, and I want to wait for prices to come down. I want to wait for interest rates to come down.

Obviously, someone’s got to be ready to buy. We don’t want someone to go down that pathway before they’re financially ready. However, does that potential waiting mean there’s more people that are flooding into the space? So maybe rates do come down, but now, you’ve got more competition in the market, and you pay more for the home. I think there’s an interesting balance here, and I just want to get your thoughts on, might there be a place to buy now, and even if rates come down, then there’s an opportunity maybe to refinance in the future?

[0:13:29] ToU: Well, I think that’s exactly what I’m hearing from some of the real estate agents that I know, is that, as soon as – I mean, they all have a lot of buyers that are on the sidelines that they represent. They sense it. As soon as rates come down to a little bit more meaningful level, they’re all going to want to come back in. What does that do? This creates a lot of competition. In the areas where you’ve seen a little bit of a buildup in listings, it’s a good opportunity to get a much better deal on the home.

I will say this though, you don’t just buy to buy. You buy if you find a home that suits your family and your needs. I always say if you’re going to be in a city for five years, it makes sense to buy. It always makes sense to buy versus rent. But if you’re only going to be there for a transitory period, then it probably doesn’t make sense. You want to just continue to rent, but rental costs are likely not falling much if at all, probably will go the other way. The cost of renting versus owning over time will be more.

I would just say, just from what’s been shared with me is, it’s going to get a lot more competition quickly if you wait. I do think we’ll see rates fall. I don’t know how quickly or when, but you can just see it. You can kind of already see it in the market. I don’t want to call it, Tom, but I told a couple of my friends that are CFAs, which are certified financial analysts. I said, “Watch, the 5% on the 10-year treasury will be likely be a peak. So far I’m right. I don’t know [inaudible 0:14:55]. They go, “No, it’s not, Tony. It may not be. This and that.” One of them said, “You might be right, because they’ve rallied down. [Inaudible 0:15:03] now.”

I think, the economy can only take so much, and I think, that’s the issue. I think we’re getting to that point. If you can afford it now, you’ll get a better deal if it’s the right home. I think you’re going to be able to lower the cost of ownership later, I really do.

[0:15:23] TU: One thing I want I want to get your perspective on is, I’m already seeing rumblings out there on social media and the news about the connection between a presidential election year and what historically has happened in the economy here. We’re talking more specifically around mortgage interest rates. Again, disclaimer, we’re not trying to predict what may or may not happen, but I do think it’s just an important piece of information as we head into 2024, which is a presidential election year. Give us your insights, Tony, of what you’ve seen in previous election cycles.

[0:15:52] ToU: You can’t go in saying it’s going to happen, that rates are going to happen. There’s a couple things that I’ve seen, and nothing’s a guarantee, but it’s typically a rocky year for the stock market in an election cycle. Stocks are usually volatile, typically, on the downside.

[0:16:09] TU: In case, we haven’t had enough of that, lately, right?

[0:16:12] ToU: Yes, right. We haven’t had enough of that. But crazy enough, the S&P is up this year, primarily because of big tech names. If you equal-weighted the S&P, it’s not doing well. But on a relative basis, it’s up because of those big tech names. But, typically, the stock market does not do well in an election year. What does that mean? That means, bonds usually rally, because money flows. Although we’ve seen bonds and stocks more correlated than ever this year. But typically, that’s what it represents.

The other piece is just the uncertainty, people rally to bonds. There are some people that say, I don’t necessarily believe this, but they say, “Hey, there’s political pressure by the incumbent party to keep getting rates to come down.” I don’t necessarily believe that, but some do. Typically, you will find that rates will normalize or get a little better in an election year, on average. If you go back through history, it typically does. I don’t think we’re going to see a huge rally, but we could. I mean, it’s interesting, UBS, some of the big brokerage firms are actually calling for – I think UBS calls for 275 basis points and Fed cuts by next fall. That’s huge. I would never predict that.

I think Morgan, Stanley, and Goldman are calling for maybe not that high, but close. So my personal feelings are, the Fed is going to wait till the job’s done. I just think they’re going to do it. They’re going to stick by their mandate and make sure inflation gets down, and it’s going in the right direction. The last report was 3.2%. I think that continues. Then, the other thing is economic decline. We’ve just got to watch the job market, the health of the economy. Walmart had some comments this morning in their earnings, and the stock was really getting hit. It’s around consumer spending. If we start seeing these things decline, that’s going to be a deflationary signal, and that will cause rates to decline.

[0:18:08] TU: Yes. The last thing I wanted to get your insights on as we’re talking about current market trends here, and something you brought up in our discussion as we’re preparing for this episode is, what you’re seeing out there in terms of consolidation of lenders. Which makes sense. It’s been a challenging market. It’s been a challenging period. Is this a space where kind of the top are getting stronger, and the weaker are falling out? But I think that’s important to discuss, as people are making the decision of who they’re working with as a lender. Just to understand what the landscape is and what’s going on right now.

Give us a quick recap of what you’re seeing of consolidation of lenders, and what trends we may expect going into the new year.

[0:18:47] ToU: Yes, sure. I mean, just to be very transparent on the mortgage industry, it’s a very, very low-margin business. At the end of the day, it’s a huge transaction for individuals. But with all the costs involved in origination, and the way the secondary markets, and the hedging work, it’s a super low margin business. It really is one that has to be done on volume and units. A lot of lenders are really struggling right now.

Most lenders that have what’s called a servicing book, that means they’re servicing loans, that can show some profitability. I will say, even some really big lenders are in jeopardy right now, like really big names, possibly even publicly traded. It’s not an easy industry with these margins. A lot of consolidation is going on in the independent mortgage bank. I don’t want to get too technical for the audience, but I just think it’s always good to be as transparent as possible. So independent mortgage banks are non-bank originators. There’s been a lot of consolidation in those groups. They’re acquiring the ones, and sometimes it’s fire sale because they’re losing so much money, that they’re just being gobbled up for their assets, and their technology, and their people, basically. More or less their people. You’re seeing a lot of that right now.

I think it’s going to get worse over the next 60 days, though. It’s going to get real magnified here. I’m hearing about it. There’s some wholesale lenders that are closing up access, but that’s more for the broker community. So if you’re a mortgage broker, and you’ve got a couple lenders you broker to, you’re seeing more wholesalers go wholesale side, lenders that are pulling out of the business. I noticed that a big one was pulling out, they won’t take applications after December 6th. Some of that stuff’s happening, and it can affect people. I mean, I’ve had people tell me in past cycles that, “The funding stopped. My loan was approved, and now they don’t have a loan.” I wouldn’t frighten a lot of folks. I think most lenders are going to be okay, but there are going to be some that don’t make it.

It’s just hard to predict, because the originators themselves don’t know really what’s going on. Like I said, it’s such a low-margin business that the folks operating it, running it don’t always share with their salesforce what’s happening. But I think you will see continued consolidation, and probably some big names that maybe merged to hide the failure. That’s usually what happens. Oh, these two are merging. Well, there’s a reason why they’re merging. It’s going to be – unfortunately, it’s been a tough time.

[0:21:18] TU: With that uplifting message about the current market trends and where we’re at, let’s shift gears and talk about how someone can get themselves ready to buy a home in 2024. Obviously, thinking about the spring season. If we do see those rate reductions, we’re talking about, obviously, the pent-up demand coming into play. I think it’s something I know, Tony, we’ve talked about this on the show, but just from my own personal experience. We often think this is a longer-term decision, and then it just starts going really quickly. I mean, just human behavior is – especially for first-time homebuyer, wanting to get a home, and I’m going to have all my ducks in a row, and we’re going to do this in March or April 2024.

Then all of a sudden, you get on to Zillow, you get into Redfin, you drive by some properties. Next day, you’re talking to a lender, you’re working with a realtor, and all of a sudden, you’ve got an offer. That’s it. These things can move quicker. I think anything that folks can be doing to prepare, and put themselves in a good position to come with a competitive offer, to have a strong lending application. This is the time as we wrap up 2023 to be thinking about that.

From your perspective as a mortgage loan officer, what are some of those key things that individuals should be listening for, especially the first-time homebuyer who maybe hasn’t gone through this process to make sure that they’ve got a good financial house in order as they look at seriously purchasing a home?

[0:22:40] ToU: Sure. I mean, I think the first thing, just make sure you have margin in your life. What I mean by that is, how much are you paying in debts? What’s your income coming in every month? Create that margin, your budget. What do I want to spend on housing, and this property. I think creating that is important. Obviously, paying debts down, keeping your liabilities to a minimum is important. The other thing is just looking at your credit score, making sure your credit score is where you need to be. I think, for a lot of folks, especially first-time homebuyers, it’s the revolving credit. It’s the credit cards, and that balance on their credit card compared to their utilization.

If they have a $10,000 cap on their spending, $10,000 limit, and they run it up to $9,000, that’s going to hurt their credit score. Keeping that down, that ratio down at 50% or below, I find is the best. So if you can keep it down there, that’s going to help your credit score. Just making sure overall, you’re on strong footing financially, I think is the right thing to do. Having some savings for a downpayment if you choose to. We’re obviously going to provide the best we would in any lender, most lenders should, would provide clarity as to the best options for you as an individual, whether it’s a low downpayment option, or one with more down payments. You’ve got to think through that. Do I want to have 20% to put down or 3%? Am I eligible for 3%?

Savings is important, start creating that savings, that savings piece. You have to have enough foreclosing costs as well. There could be, depending on the timing of this and what state you’re in, and I don’t want to touch on this too much now, because it’s very much preliminary. But there was a big ruling on real estate commissions through the NAR.

[0:24:31] TU: I just saw that.

[0:24:32] ToU: It could change – I don’t want to get to, because it could be some back and forth with this.

[0:24:38] TU: Supreme Court decision, right, that happens?

[0:24:40] ToU: Yes, that’s right. But I think two states have already accepted it. I think Missouri and New York I think are implementing it. We’ve just got to watch how buyer commissions are impacted. I think, overall, it’s going to bring – I mean, my opinion, if this goes through, I think it’s going to bring the costs of commissions down tremendously for the end user. Selling a home will be cheaper than it’s been in the past. But my concern is, under representation of buyers, because they’re going to be going straight to the listing agent. They’re not going to understand the schools, the area, and they’re not going to have the representation. That’s my concern.

I also think it’s going to cut maybe 30% of the realtors out of the business immediately. So it’s going to be huge changes in that portion. I think ultimately, it’ll save people money, but it could underrepresent and provide less service to people. So that could create an additional expense for some buyers in some areas. They may have to pay their agent something. That’s typically coming out of the sales price now.

[0:25:49] TU: Tony, for those that have not been following the details of this decision, we’re talking about more in the podcast in the future. But I think what you’re saying is a really important point about potentially the underrepresentation of buyers as this shakes out. Just explain more about why that may happen.

[0:26:04] ToU: Well, if the real estate industry adapts where you have to basically pay a buyer’s agent to represent you directly, it might be tough for a lot of people to do that. Even though you’re ultimately going to save the money on the home purchase because the seller doesn’t have to pay 6%, they’re paying 3%, you’re basically paying whatever portion, difference. I don’t know what it’s going to be in that area. But let’s say it’s 3%. So if you’re paying 3%, seems like a lot. A $200,000 our home, it’s $6,000. So if you’re coming out of pocket with that, that’s additional expense. Sure there’s maybe a way we can roll it into the price somehow. Seller concessions, things like that, but there’s additional costs.

I think a lot of people will say, “I don’t need that. I’m going to go right to – I found this home on Redfin, or I found it on Zillow, I found it online. I’m going to go right to this house.”

[0:26:54] TU: The seller, yes.

[0:26:56] ToU: Well, the seller’s agent, listing agent represents the seller. So they may not give you all the details on the area, the property. Is it the right school system for your kids? Is it the right area? I mean, I just think there’s going to be an underrepresentation for some buyers in certain areas if they don’t engage that buyer’s agent. Just over the years, that’s what I’ve seen the value, is those agents do provide clarity and help on what’s the best area. I mean, if there is value there, and I think, some people may give that up. That’s the concern I have when initially reading through the ruling.

[0:27:31] TU: Great insights. Again, that’s evolving as a story, and new news to me. I hadn’t heard about the couple of states that already adopted it. We’ll keep an eye on this to make sure we’re sharing information as we have it.

Last thing I want to ask you here, Tony, about getting yourself, someone getting themselves ready for 2024 would be about the pre-approval process. If I’m listening to this, and it’s end of 2023, and I’m thinking about buying a home, let’s say in March, April, sometime in the spring. What recommendations would you have in terms of when they should be thinking about starting that pre-approval process?

[0:28:04] ToU: Well, I think just what we touched on earlier, Tim, about making sure your margins and your budget, starting to plan now. For some people, it might make sense to actually engage a lender now, just because if it’s – if you’re talking about closing in March, April, or May, it’s coming faster than you think because you’re going to start looking at homes. You want to know you’re eligible for these houses. The other thing is, you may want to be under contract for 60 days. One thing I’ve always said, if someone has their house listed during the holidays, they are a serious seller. They want to sell that house. They’re having people through the house with your family, and ornaments up, and all that, you know they’re serious, and they’ll probably negotiate more.

It can be a good time to pick up a deal usually, versus the spring when there’s more people. But let’s just say, you’re waiting, and you may want to get pre-approved now if you go under contract in January or in sometime in February, and it’s a 60-day close or 45-day close. Your timeline I think depends on when you’re looking. If it’s in the summer, or May, or June, then maybe you wait until after the new year to get an actual pre-approval. But it’s never too early in my opinion, especially if you might have a credit issue because lenders have ways to like – we have a system where we can run simulations of what their credit could be. They pay certain things off. That’s been really valuable, not only in getting people approved, but also getting the better interest rates and better programs, getting someone from maybe 660 credit score to a 700, or 700 to 740. It adds a lot of value and I think it can take some time. That’s where I think pre-approvals are important to get ahead of it.

[0:29:49] TU: Let’s wrap up here by talking about the importance of knowing your lending options. Specifically, I want to talk about the pharmacist’s home loan product that you all offer at First Horizon. We talked about on a previous episode, 285, which was cracking the code on homebuying loan options. We’ll link to that in the show notes. We covered the variety of options that are out there from FHA, to VA, to conventional, to the pharmacist home loan.

One of things you already said, I think it’s really important point to reiterate, which is, when working with a lender, ideally, they’re helping you kind of understand what those different options are. To see based on interest rates, based on your credit score, based on cash available, what’s the loan option that makes the most sense for you? It might be for some, it’s an FHA loan, and they’re not thinking that that would be the best option. Or it might be a conventional, or perhaps it is the pharmacist home loan products.

Tell us about that offering through First Horizon. I think many people, if this is new terminology, they might have heard of doctor loans that are out there. Many of those lenders may exclude pharmacists or they might be available in certain states. One of the reasons we’ve been partnering with you guys for four-plus years now is the national reach. We know we’ve got a national audience that’s out there. Who is this product for, and what is the makeup of the product?

[0:31:05] ToU: Sure. The product that we offer to pharmacists, of course, you have to be a practicing pharmacist. You have to have to be in the field, and be actively working in the field to be eligible. The program really is not just for first-time homebuyers. This could be your third or fourth home. It just changes with the downpayment. If you’re a first-time homebuyer, I know we’ve discussed this in the past, but I’ll repeat it. It’s 3% down if you’re a first-time homebuyer. It’s 5% down if you’ve owned a home in the past, so those would be the two differences. There is no mortgage insurance. That’s a really big benefit. We really do not have a reserve requirement either, which is fairly significant as well.

There’s a minimum credit score of 700 on the product. Obviously, the advantages are not putting a lot of money down into the house, and having no MI I think is the big advantage. We’ve had a lot of folks who, especially over the last four years, who have taken advantage of this loan and put 3% or 5% down. Obviously, the values of homes have gone up, and they’ve really been able to get great investment in your money, get great return on their money. It’s been a really good program. But like we mentioned earlier about the market constantly changing, and the mortgage market evolving.

The secondary market, and how things have worked with trading, it was interesting. For some clients, their credit scores may not be really, really high, but it’s still good enough for the pharmacist product. Sometimes FHA loans have been unbelievably good, like the margin was so much better on the 30-year fixed pricing. We’ve been able to offer that. That wasn’t the case two years ago or a year ago.

We try to just look at what the market is offering us because sometimes, these other programs can be better if the rate is significantly lower. Anyway, that would be how we look at things. Obviously, the pharmacist products, the first thing we look at, if you’re a pharmacist, it’s the first thing we’re going to look at, but we will compare. Everyone’s situation is unique, and that’s why we will look at other options too. There’s plenty of other options that we carry.

[0:33:13] TU: The maximum loan amount on that right now is what, Tony?

[0:33:17] ToU: It’s 726,200, but I believe I’m about 90% certain, after Thanksgiving, traditionally this will come through. But I think we’ll be at 750 or a little higher by next year. I’m pretty sure it will happen. That’ll be the max loan amount. That’s the max the loan amount you can go to.

[0:33:34] TU: We’ll wait to update the website, so we’ll leave it.

[0:33:37] ToU: Yes, I would wait. If you think about that, someone’s looking to buy next year, potentially, you could buy $800,000 home with $50,000 down or less. That’s pretty good with no MI. That’s going to be on the table here pretty soon, I think.

[0:33:54] TU: So just to recap the highlights and we’ve got more information on the website, if you go to, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. We’ll link to that in the show notes as well. You can see all this information and some additional resources. But 3% down for first-time homebuyers, 5% down if it’s not a first-time homebuyer, no mortgage insurance, 30-year fixed rate option, maximum loan amount of 726,200, potentially going up, and a minimum credit score of 700, available nationwide except in Alaska and Hawaii.

Great option for folks be considering. Again, the point you’re making is such a good one that, when working with a lender, you want to feel confident that they are looking at all the options that are out there. You’ve highlighted well that that can change, will change based on what’s happening in the economy and with the different products that are available.

Tony, as always this has been awesome. Really appreciate your insights for our community. If folks want to get connected with you and again, learn more about that offering, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. You can click on Get Started, that will provide a quick questionnaire, and that will get you in touch with Tony and his team. So Tony, thanks so much.

[0:35:06] ToU: Thanks, Tim. It’s great being here with you.

[0:35:09] TU: Absolutely. Happy Thanksgiving. Take care.

[0:35:11] ToU: You too.

[END OF EPISODE]

[0:35:12] TU: Before we wrap up today’s show, I want to again thank this week’s sponsor of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast, First Horizon. We’re glad to have found a solution for pharmacists that are unable to save 20% for a down payment on a home. A lot of pharmacists in the YFP community have taken advantage of First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan, which requires a 3% down payment for a single-family home, or townhome for first-time home buyers and has no PMI on a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage.

To learn more about the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan and to get started with the pre-approval process, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

[DISCLAIMER]

[0:35:56] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information on the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment, or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archive, newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 322: Checklist for First-Time Homebuyers

Posted on by Tim U

Mortgage loan officer Tony Umholtz joins the show to discuss available loan options (including the pharmacist home loan), why a preapproval matters, and things to consider when choosing a lender. This episode is sponsored by First Horizon.

About Today’s Guest

Episode Summary

If you’re a first-time home buyer, this episode is for you! This week’s episode, sponsored by FirstHorizon, features Tony Umholtz, a mortgage loan officer at First Horizon Bank with over 20 years of experience in the industry, and he is here to share important factors that you should be taking into consideration before purchasing your first property. By the end of the episode, you will understand how banks decide whether or not to approve a mortgage application, the pros and cons of the various loan options that exist, the difference between preapproval and prequalification, things to look out for when choosing a lender, and more! Buying your first home isn’t something to be taken lightly, and Tony’s insights will leave you feeling well-equipped to make decisions that are going to serve you well, now and in the future.

Key Points From the Episode

Tony shares a number of current market trends that are important to be aware of.
Factors that are putting huge pressure on housing affordability (particularly for first-time homeowners)
What a debt-to-income ratio is and how banks use it to determine which mortgage applications to approve.
Why Tony recommends an income-based repayment plan for student loan debt.
A question you should ask yourself before applying for a mortgage.
An overview of the traditional lending options that are available to first-time home buyers.
Advantages and disadvantages of taking out an FHA loan.
Benefits of the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac conventional loan programs.
Examples of additional loan programs.
Details about First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan.
Factors to take into consideration when choosing a lender.
The difference between preapproval and prequalification.
Advice for choosing a real estate agent to work with.
Implications of a ruling that is likely going to be passed by the Supreme Court.

Episode Highlights

“We’re in an environment of higher interest rates than we’ve seen in a long time. We haven’t seen rates like this since the early 2000s.” — Tony Umholtz [0:02:13]

“Just because the lender says, ‘We can give you this loan,’ it doesn’t mean it’s what is best for you.” — Tony Umholtz [0:15:43]

“There’s a tremendous amount of liquidity for first-time home buyers. So I would ignore a lot of what you hear in the media.” — Tony Umholtz [0:16:59]

“It’s a good time to buy because the inventory levels are low, prices are stable, you can get a better deal than you could a few years ago when the market was so hot you couldn’t even order an appraisal sometimes.” — Tony Umholtz [0:24:05]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00.8] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrick here, and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I welcome back on to the show, Tony Umholtz, a mortgage loan officer with First Horizon Bank. During the show, I tap into Tony’s 20-plus years of experience in the industry to form a checklist for first-time home buyers. We discuss how to determine how much home you can afford, the different types of loan options to consider, what to look for in choosing a lender, and much more.

Okay, let’s hear it from today’s sponsor, First Horizon, and then we’ll jump into my interview with Tony.

[SPONSOR MESSAGE]

[0:00:36.6] TU: Does saving 20% for a downpayment on a home feel like an uphill battle? It’s no secret that pharmacists have a lot of competing financial priorities, including high student loan debt, meeting that saving 20% for a downpayment on a home may take years.

We’ve been on a hunt for a solution for pharmacists that are ready to purchase a home loan with a lower down payment and are happy to have found that option with First Horizon. First Horizon offers a professional home loan option, AKA, doctor or pharmacist home loan, that requires a 3% down payment for a single-family home or townhome for first-time home buyers, has no PMI, and offers a 30-year fixed rate mortgage on home loans up to USD 726,200.

The pharmacist home loan is available in all states except Alaska and Hawaii and can be used to purchase condos as well. However, rates may be higher and a condo review has to be completed. To check out the requirements for First Horizon’s Pharmacist Home Loan, and to start the preapproval process, visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:01:48.5] TU1: Tony, welcome back to the show.

[0:01:50.5] TU2: Tim, thanks for having me, great to be here.

[0:01:52.1] TU1: Excited to have you back and I’m going to start with my standard question to you, given the ongoing volatility that we’re seeing in the mortgage landscape. What are the market trends and realities that you’re seeing right now that our listeners should be aware of?

[0:02:06.9] TU2: Well, there’s a lot to digest right now with what the federal reserve has done this past year and you know, we’re in an environment of higher interest rates than we’ve seen in a long time. We haven’t seen rates like this since the early 2000s and, you know, a couple of things to watch right now, the big news last week was that our US treasury needed to borrow an additional 275 billion that they didn’t have in the budget. So that kind of pushed rates a little higher across the board. It does help fixed-income investors because rates are higher for investments but for mortgage, mortgages, and borrowers, especially if you have variable rate like credit card loans and things like that and home equity lines, those rates are really taking a hit here recently.

[0:02:51.9] TU1: Yeah, 275 billion, small details, right? That we need to be planning for, you know, we talk about a balanced budget on the personal side. We don’t have that luxury, right?

[0:03:00.5] TU2: That’s right, that’s right. You know, I was teasing my wife about it too. I said, “You know, look, it’s important that we keep a good budget because we can see what’s happening in our national debt,” but I think, you know, it’s funny. Back to that point you know overall, I’ve seen – this is – I’m going into my 21st year of this industry, and people on average I feel are better stewards with their money than they used to be.

Like I look back in the mid-200s, it was a lot different. People were always coming to me very indebted, not that everyone’s perfect now but it just seems like people are better educated and better stewards overall from what I’ve seen. It’s been a choppy market and I think we could be in for higher rates for some time unless we see some big global macro event.

You know, a bank failure or unemployment spike or, you know, GDP really collapse, those sort of catalysts would cause rates to get worse. On the bright side, most markets around the country, inventory levels are low and there’s just not enough homes. So home prices have continued to go up in most areas and that’s been a challenge too because you have higher interest rates and higher home prices.

I don’t think home prices are going to fall, given the inventory levels, because that’s how you measure price stabilities, inventory. I mean, there’s always areas that are going to be suffering more than others. So we can’t generalize that every city is the same but the majority of the cities in the US right now have a lack of inventory and that’s causing prices to be stable and even going up despite the headwinds.

[0:04:40.0] TU1: Yeah, and it feels like there’s several factors, you know, we’ve talked about this before on the show about inventory being an issue. Obviously, rates where they are, which I think is putting a lot of pressure on first-time homebuyers.

We’re going to talk in a little bit about student loans here coming back online and the impact of that for first-time home buyers and then I think there’s the reality of, you know, Jess and I talk about this often, so many of us that locked in homes at the high twos and low threes pre-pandemic and the beginning of the pandemic, unless there’s a significant reason to move, a lot of people are saying, “I don’t want to give up that rate,” right? “Why would I give up you know, 2.8, 2.8, 3% to take on a 7% plus rate?” So I suspect that probably is worsening, you know, some of the supply and demand as well, is that fair?

[0:05:26.1] TU2: Absolutely, I think that’s a big, very fair, big driver of why inventory’s tight, right? Because people, even though they may need a bigger home, their family’s grown, they don’t want to give up that interest rate. But it’s interesting, we’re starting to see, and it’s just a few cases, but I’m starting to see people that have so much equity. They have that 30-year at 3% but they have so much equity and they built up other debts. So you know, credit card debt mainly. Other liabilities, auto loans that are higher interest rates than that, where even if you took a rate in the sixes to cash out, refinance it, and pay off your debt, you’re saving a thousand dollars a month in cash flow.

So I think, at some point, you know, being married to that super low rate on a small loan balance, even a higher mortgage rate could pay off for some people to consolidate because cash flow is the key, right? Payments, what you’re paying. And it’s not all about rate one mortgage, you gotta look at your whole debt profile but there are a lot of people with those low rates and it’s just one of those things, right? You know, you don’t want to move when you’ve got a payment like that and even though you have but you are sitting on a lot of equity.

[0:06:36.3] TU1: Yeah, it’s interesting. I appreciate the comment about looking at the whole portfolio. You know, something like debt consolidation may be a factor or you know, to your point, where at one point in time, especially as you’re getting started and you don’t have a lot of equity, that low rate can be a huge advantage but at some point, you’ve got a lot of equity that’s sitting in your home, right? And depending on what else is going on in the financial plan, there may be other options to consider.

So today, Tony, we’re going to cover a checklist for first-time home buyers that includes determining how much one can purchase. We’ll talk about affordability, evaluating the loan options that are out there, factors in choosing a lender, and also in selecting a real estate agent. So let’s go through this one by one. First on our checklist is the determination of affordability, right?

Relevant topic just given what we talked about here over the last few minutes. I think as we’ve seen, as you mentioned, escalation or at least stability of home prices, rising interest rates, we talked about that and for many of our first-time home buyers, federal student loan payments are going to be coming back online for the first time in over three and a half years.

All of this is putting pressure on affordability, especially again for those first-time home buyers that may not have equity built up in a previous home. So let’s start with how the bank determines affordability, AKA, how much mortgage they will approve, and then we can talk about how the individual may also determine affordability. So give us the rundown. I know this is fluid in some cases but how does the bank look at the affordability of how much home one can ultimately afford?

[0:08:08.9] TU2: Sure. Well, you know, for the majority of the products, Tim, the debt-to-income ratio that we look for is 43%. So what that means, debt-to-income ratio, is your total income, total debt, your debts cannot be higher than 43% of your income. Now, that’s gross monthly income, okay?

So if you’re W2 wage earner, then it’s going to be before tax, right? So that’s going to be – a quick example, if you make USD 10,000 in household income per month, your total liabilities including that new mortgage payment cannot exceed 4,300. So that would be the basic calculation of a debt-to-income ratio. That’s what the majority of lenders look at. Now, there’s ways to get like, we do have the ability, especially for those who are putting more money down like more than putting 20% down for example, we do have the ability a lot of times to go up as high as 50% debt-to-income ratio.

But you typically have to have compensating factors like, you know, 20% down or more, higher credit scores, you know, liquidity, things like that. So that’s normally when you see some of the higher debt-to-income ratios but I would say 43 is where you want to be at for a safe number. That’s what the majority of the lenders in our country are going to look at.

[0:09:33.4] TU1: And just to reinforce what you said, that’s not just mortgage payment, that’s total debt loads, right? So if there’s debt commitments, that could be credit card, debt commitments to car payments.

[0:09:43.7] TU2: Right.

[0:09:44.1] TU1: Debt commitments to student loans. Let’s talk about that for a moment. So we, again, we’re coming back online here in the fall. Many of our listeners, especially first-time homebuyers, may have upwards of USD 200,000 or more of student loan debt.

Now, depending on how they pay that off, they could very aggressively pay it off if they want to. The standard repayment is a 10-year default option, in that case, they would be looking at monthly payments, 1,800 to USD 2,000 a month, or they could take that out over a longer period of time, which is probably most common, on something like an income-driven repayment plan, which will lower their monthly payment.

So lots of nuances in student loans and I’m curious to hear from your perspective as a lender, someone who has had a lot of experience in this industry, working with pharmacists as well, how do they look at the student loans?

[0:10:31.5] TU2: Well, it is, it’s a great question. I mean, the first thing is normally, I find that the income-based repayment plan is going to give you, especially now, it’s going to probably give you the best ratios for most of our listeners, for most of our potential clients here. There is a factor we use.

For example, if there was no payment, right? Or if you’re in sort of deferment, we’re going to use a factor of the student loans, which is better than like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA would use but that factor can still be higher than what most have as an income-based repayment, I find.

But there is the factor that we use for the student loan payments that we’ll use to kind of generate a payment that will service that liabilities monthly obligation, and that factor again is less than like, for example, Fannie, Freddie are 1% of the balance per month. So if it’s a USD 200,000 balance, you’re at USD 2,000 per month.

[0:11:30.4] TU1: Yeah.

[0:11:30.8] TU2: Which is pretty unaffordable. This product is 0.5%, which is still high. I mean, at 200,000, it will be a thousand a month. So it’s a more generous way but it’s not, I find that the income-based repayment is typically better. So that’s normally what we recommend.

[0:11:50.9] TU1: I’m glad you brought that up because we do have people that may be deferring for whatever reason. Obviously, we’re in the pause period right now. So understanding again, we talk about all the time that we can’t be thinking about one part of the financial plan in a silo. This is a great example where how you approach your student loan may certainly have an impact on affordability and determination on the mortgage side.

Tony, you mentioned just a few moments ago that something like a higher credit score or greater down payment may be able to push that percentage upwards from 43%. Can the opposite be true? So, you know, a low down payment, and we’ll talk about different financing options here in a little bit, or a lower credit score, could that ultimately work in the opposite direction where maybe it’s not 43% but it’s a lower percentage?

[0:12:38.9] TU2: Sometimes yes. Yeah, there is such scenarios where it might need to be – if the credit score is rocky, although I mean, when we have a little bit of a credit challenge with low down payment, I always look for FHA loans because conventional the answer would be yes, there would be some challenges with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, conventional loans.

But with FHA, that serves as a good niche there and FHA serves that market really well. A lot of times, the interest rates are much better too for that borrower that has a little bit of a credit ding for conventional style, will pivot to that product but yeah, that is exactly right. If you have a higher debt-to-income ratio, low down payment, it’s going to be a more challenging situation for sure.

[0:13:26.5] TU1: So we’re talking here about you know, affordability. What the bank is going to determine that they are comfortable lending you with, and it’s important to call out and remember that the bank’s calculation ultimately is a CYA for the bank, right? It’s to minimize their risk on you as the “lendee” for closing on that loan.

So they’re trying to determine the likelihood of being able to repay that loan but it’s certainly not a calculation to determine what is or is not ultimately in your best interest with looking at the whole of the financial plan, right? It’s really on the individual borrower to determine what the monthly budget can afford with other goals and priorities in mind and that is a huge piece to consider.

We often say, Tony, that someone really should start with their own budget, and then obviously, there’s going to be most often, maybe a bigger number in terms of what the bank will determine as affordable and to be able to reconcile that as they go out and search homes. What we’re trying to really do is prevent a situation where someone gets into a home and then pay cut, temporary job loss, something happens and they feel like they’re really strapped month to month. So I would really encourage people, when they look at personal affordability, to answer the question, how much of your monthly take-home pay do you want to be taken up from a home purchase? And being able to feel comfortable with that.

And this is really a place to mention, you know, principle interest, taxes, and insurance is certainly a portion of that but there’s a lot of other things that we need to be thinking about, right? It could be association fees, it could be maintenance, it could be upgrades. We all know getting into home, things break, we want to upgrade things and so making sure we’ve got margin in the budget to be able to do that as well is really, really important.

[0:15:09.1] TU2: HOA fees are going to be included so if homeowner’s association fees, something else called CDD fees, which are community which developers pass along to the new homeowner in a lot of parts of the country for new construction communities and those can be, they’re like a non-Ad Valorem tax that gets added on to your property taxes.

Those are another cost that’s factored into the debt ratios and so that’s something to consider but again, yes, home repairs, furnishing, all that has to be considered. Just because the lender says, “We can give you this loan,” it doesn’t mean it’s what is best for you.

[0:15:51.6] TU1: So that’s number one on our checklist. Number two for our checklist for first-time home buyers is evaluating the different loan options. Tony, something we’ve talked about before in the show and we’ll link in the show notes to some of those previous episodes where folks can dig in in more detail but it’s worth revisiting as it’s an important part, a really important part for a prospective homebuyer to understand the various options and products that are out there.

You’ve already mentioned a couple of these, FHA, you mentioned the conventional loans offered through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Give us a brief overview of the traditional lending options that are available for our first-time home buyer, and then we’ll also talk in more detail about the pharmacist home loan option available through First Horizon.

[0:16:33.0] TU2: Sure. So there are a lot of programs available for first-time home buyers and for residential financing in particular. I mean, you’ll hear some things in the media about financing tightening up, lending tightening up. It’s primarily on the commercial side and some of the high-end bank portfolio side, whether they’re, you know, you have two million dollar loans, stuff is tightening. But there’s a tremendous amount of liquidity for first-time home buyers. So I would ignore a lot of what you hear, you know, in the media regarding that.

The first product I’ll mention, which I mentioned earlier, FHA is a very common program for first-time home buyers, especially if your credit is a little lower, if it’s under 680. A lot of times, that’s the best product option from a rate perspective. The benefits of it is you can put as little as three and a half percent down and the loan limits are going to differ by county. So it’s going to depend on what county you’re buying in and that will determine the loan limit, the max loan limit available.

The downside of FHA is it’s got permanent lifetime mortgage insurance. You cannot get rid of the mortgage insurance for the life of the loan. It’s always going to be on the loan and it’s something that gets added on to that monthly payment every month. So that’s the downside of FHA but one of the positives of FHA, and I write a few of these a year, is that it’s the best primary multi-family loan program out there.

I have some really good success stories over the years of young professionals buying triplexes and fourplexes and duplexes, living in one unit, renting the rest of them and it becomes this great lifetime asset. So there are some benefits to FHA financing. There are some good things, some flexibility on down payments and you can get gift funds and so forth, so there are some good things there.

The other is Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which are conventional loan programs. They have, again, some really good programs here as far as you know, 3% down, 5% down options. The PMI on those loans is not lifetime, it can be removed, typically after two years of paying it and even sooner if you come up with the down payment.

Like for example, I’ve had clients that put 10% down, and then literally, six months later they say, “Hey, you know, we ended up coming up with another 10% and we want to put it down and get rid of that MI,” and you can do that, you can do it within that two years. It’s based on the original purchase price but you can get rid of the MI that way too.

And then the other side of that is, we’re starting to see and this is, again, I gotta be careful how I say this but I’m based in Florida so I’m really familiar with these programs in Florida but there’s some state-based programs for first-time home buyers.

Like, we have one in Florida right now where you can essentially get 100% financing. We’ll do a Fannie Mae first mortgage or Freddie Mac first mortgage, and then the state will give you a second at 0% and there’s income caps on that one and the majority of your listeners, Tim, are probably not going to qualify for these interstates because there’s income caps. Like, you can’t earn over a certain limit. The Florida one is very generous, it’s 130,000. So that’s one of the highest I’ve ever heard of but that we’ve got some loans we’re working on here for that down here in Florida but there’s some nichey programs that can fall on our conventional with certain states.

Then the other – I say, the last one is going to be sparingly used, but VA loans. If you have someone that’s a first-time homebuyer or even if their spouse served in the military, VA is a great program for buyers. I mean, it’s just tremendous. No PMI, 100% financing, and some of the best interest rates on the market. We have no lender fees for them. It’s a very, very good program for that audience.

And then lastly, you know, the nichey programs like the one we offer for pharmacists and professionals with no PMI and again, you have to be a pharmacist or be in a certain field to qualify. But that can be as little as 3% down with no PMI if you’re a first-time home buyer and 5% down if you’ve owned before and that loan amount will go all the way up to USD 727,000. So it really covers the majority of first-time home buyers, maybe except those in California, you know, it is still pretty expensive there but for the majority of our audience, that will satisfy that need.

[0:21:17.9] TU1: Great overview Tony, I think that highlights well, you know, we’ll talk in a moment here about choosing a lender but when working with a lender, especially one that’s well-versed in all the options and nuances especially, you know, you’ve referenced several times here different cases where, you know, in working with many pharmacists, people have maybe done a house hack. That might be really attractive for an FHA. Or got a low credit score, maybe an FHA or availability of down payment or access to a VA loan and I’m not from there, it’s the first time I’m hearing about some of the state-based programs. So you know certainly, your expertise in Florida, although you work with pharmacists and others across the country as well.

So I think that’s an interesting one for our community to look into further and I know we do have folks that are listening in Florida that may be just hovering around that one, you know, 30 mark. So depending on applicability, I think that would be worth reaching out to inquire more about as well. I want to make sure our folks are well aware of the pharmacist home loan option via First Horizon.

You just covered some of the basics in terms of down payment, maximum loan amount. One of the reasons that we’ve been excited about this collaboration over the years is the national availability and the lower 48 of this product, knowing that our community is based all across the country. Tell us just a little bit more about that eligibility. You know, I’m thinking about things like credit scores.

So you mentioned no PMI, you mentioned the down payment, you mentioned the loan limits but are there folks where credit score may become an issue here that would point them to an FHA loan? Any other details that individuals need to be aware with this product?

[0:22:49.3] TU2: Sure, sure, good question. The minimum credit score, there’s no maximum but the minimum credit score is 700. So 700 is going to be the minimum credit score for the product and then if you’re under that, we do have ways to help boost credit scores. We have a technology where we can evaluate credit and we can actually see what your score can get to by certain activities, paying certain debts down, maybe a percentage of your credit card, and we’ve helped numerous clients with that. You know, it is almost on a monthly basis. That’s a good tool to get the credit scores higher but 700 is kind of that line in the sand. We can’t go below that for the no MI product, so it’s going to be your minimum score.

You know, as far as the overview of the product, what I love about it is there’s no reserve requirements. A lot of these products have hefty reserve requirements and we don’t have that for it because that really helps first-time home buyers that may not have a lot of savings built up yet or investments built up yet. There’s also no prepayment penalty, which I think is very important because I really believe in the next two years that we’re going to see some really good opportunities to refinance.

That’s why I still think it’s a good time to buy because the inventory levels are low, prices are stable, you can get a better deal than you could a few years ago when the market was so hot you couldn’t even order an appraisal sometimes. It’s still one of those times where I think you’re going to have a chance to get the home you need, build that, and actually have a chance to lower your payments in the future.

I do think we’re going to see that happen. The other variable would just be, we only offer a fixed rate on the product, so it is only a 30-year fixed on this particular option, there’s no 15-year. The last thing I will mention too is it does a lot of duplexes, the three and the fourplexes are allowed but it requires a pretty hefty down payment, it’s usually 20%, where the duplex is only 15% with no MI.

So we’ve used that a few times for pharmacists that want to get into their first property and utilize this program. Quick high level of it. To me, the biggest factors are the no MI, no prepayment penalty, and the flexibility on reserve.

[0:25:10.2] TU1: I’m glad you mentioned the reserve requirement because I think that’s something we’re going to be seeing as more of an issue. You mentioned first-time home buyers naturally that is but especially with student loan payments coming back online that are going to eat into the ability to be able to save up those reserves. Over time, I think that is going to be an important factor that individuals are looking for.

We’ve got some great information on the website, we’ll link to in the show notes as well. You can to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan, click on “get started,” we’ve got a brief form that you can fill out, and then we’ll get you connected with Tony so you can learn more about that product.

Tony, third on our checklist for first-time home buyers is choosing a lender and getting pre-approval. Obviously, you’re biased in terms of the work that you do for good reasons and the value that you provided to many pharmacists out there that are listening, but from your perspective, what are some of the top factors that one should be looking for when choosing with a lender that they want to move forward with?

[0:26:06.9] TU2: Sure. You know, I would say communication is one of the biggest pieces. Being able to communicate is critical in this process because there’s a lot of questions, there’s a lot of things that come up in the home-buying process, so I say communication is number one. The other piece would be service.

You know, I think a mistake a lot of people make is they kind of chase interest rates on the Internet and it can backfire because a lot of times, that’s how they get you in the door to call them and things change once you get in the door and get the application in and the, you know, I think that the service side, being able to close on time, meet the milestones of your contract is really important.

So finding a lender that communicates well but also can meet all those timelines, can close quickly if you need to because if someone – you can close in three weeks or under 30 days. Sometimes, you can go back to the seller and save five, USD 10,000 on the purchase price of the home. It’s a big deal, so I think having bid.

I think in service of meeting the commitment letter date, making sure you use local appraisers. Because some of the bigger lenders will actually use an appraisal management service, where you can have more challenges with the appraisal process than some of the smaller local lenders. So I think that again, it’s a comfort feeling, it’s communication, it’s service, and then having a competitive product I think is important too. You know, having a product that’s a good fit for your needs is important as well. I think those three.

There are a lot of good lenders out there. There really are. It’s getting hard. It’s tough on the lending industry, the volumes have dropped 40% from last year. A lot of lenders are leaving the business, so it is a much tougher environment for the mortgage market right now but there are still good lenders out there for sure.

[0:28:00.3] TU1: Once somebody choose a lender, quickly after that is going to become a preapproval so they can go out there seriously look at homes, be ready to make offers and I think this is an area we see a lot of confusion on partly because of the online shopping of rates and quick access and easy solutions and that being the preapproval versus the prequalification. So tell us briefly about the difference and why the preapproval process is so important.

[0:28:24.3] TU2: So when you go looking for homes, a lot of the real estate agents will ask you, and now we’re going to talk about real estate agents shortly, but they’re going to say, “Do you have a preapproval letter?” You know, that’s going to be the first thing before they even want to engage with you, they’re going to want to make sure you have that and the difference between the preapproval and prequalification are that the lender has checked your income, and checked your credit report.

Those are the two major factors, right? We verified the income, we verified your credit. The prequalification, which a lot of us can get online, is pretty simple. It’s more verbal than anything, right? So verbal verification, where a preapproval, you are actually providing the information to the lender and they’re reviewing it and making sure that from a high level, your income is accurate and your debt-to-income ratio works.

A lot of listing agents won’t even allow you into the property unless you first get that preapproval. It’s either, “Can you pay cash or do you have a preapproval?” Because they call us. We get calls from the listing agents all the time, “Is this client qualified?” And that’s a big factor when you make an offer, is what does that preapproval letter say? And because there’s still multiple offers and sometimes, you know, multiple buyers looking at a home, we still get those phone calls and that I think is very important to have a strong preapproval. That’s going to be the factor in a lot of times, moving forward and it gives you peace of mind.

I understand, you know, “Hey, I don’t want my credit run,” things like that and you know an inquiry on a credit report, having one or two lenders look at it is going to have no impact on your report. It’s when you have multiple types of creditors looking at one time. So if you come to our team and get your credit run and then you go to Bank of America and have them run your credit for a mortgage but then you have Dillard’s run your credit for a credit card, you have Macy’s run your credit for a credit card, and you have a car loan, well, those are different types of creditors all at one time that will impact for sure, but it still won’t be much, it will be a few points.

Where I find people get confused on this and start to go off on a credit tangent is, you know, you can go to a Best Buy, right? And buy a TV and they’ll say, “Okay, here’s that USD 2,000 TV with no interest for a year if you take this credit” and so many people will do that. That will whack your score 40 to 50 points immediately because it shows up as a maxed-out credit card.

[0:30:51.3] TU1: Yep, high utilization.

[0:30:52.7] TU2: Those are misconceptions, I see a lot of borrowers, especially first-time home buyers, will come to me so concerned about an inquiry and they have things like that or their credit card been up to – much more impactful and on [inaudible 0:31:09.0] but yeah, it is a critical thing to have a preapproval in my opinion especially your first time out.

[0:31:17.6] TU1: So glad you mentioned about credit. I remember you saying that on a previous episode and I think that’s just a lot of ways in there, right? Because we often think about it, you know, if you’ve got a personal credit card with a max of 20, USD 25,000 and you’re charging on average three or USD 4,000 a month, you’re at a reasonable percentage of utilization that’s not going to have a negative impact on your score.

In fact, you know, utilization and timely path of credit can have a positive impact on your score but if you go out and buy a piece of furniture, a TV, or whatever, that essentially looks like a maxed-out credit card so that can have a negative impact, great point there. So we’ve talked about affordability, we’ve talked about evaluating loan options, we’ve talked about choosing a lender and getting approval.

And fourth on our checklist is choosing a real estate agent and I would certainly want to give a shoutout here to Nate Hedrick, who is a frequent guest on the YFP Podcast, cohost of The Real Estate Investing Podcast, who has a home buying concierge service intended to connect folks with an agent local in their area. We’ve got more information on the website that we’ll link to in the show notes.

I’m certainly interested, Tony, in your experiences over two decades now, where you regularly work with agents. What are the characteristics that make up a good agent that someone can be looking for when choosing who they want to ultimately go forward with?

[0:32:33.1] TU2: Yeah, a great question and I’m going to bring up something else about agents here in a minute that could change the framework of the industry here very soon but a couple high-level points. I think, you know, the first thing would be, obviously, back to the same thing as the lenders is communication, right? Communication and that rapport is very important and the other piece is just doing their homework, right? What you’re looking for.

I mean, some agents will come to us, and I’ll just give an example real quick when we do conventional loans for 20% down through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, oftentimes we’ll get an appraisal waiver. So that means there’s no appraisal needed. Now, you could still do an appraisal as a buyer but oftentimes, when they get that, they want to waive it because they save the appraisal fee.

A lot of the good agents will do so much work on comping the home out and the offer price and knowing what the comps are, those borrowers will feel comfortable moving forward without the appraisal, right? Because of the work that agent has done. So I think just knowledge of the area, knowledge of the process, communication, do they have a good reputation with other listing agents?

That is huge, I mean, I find that some of the – I work with a lot of realtors just around here in Tampa especially but I have some in other states. It’s amazing, even not where I can see them face to face all the time. In fact, I had a Zoom call with a great friend of mine in Miami that has a big team and we would talk this morning to his team at nine just about the market and what we’re seeing.

But I think just seeing these agents that I have worked with around rather for a long time, ten-plus years, is the ones that play well with everyone else and have a good reputation, when they bring a buyer to that other list, that other realtor’s listing, guess who gets, “Hey, this guy, he knows he’s bringing a qualified buyer. He’s not playing games, he negotiates the right way.”

So I think having a good reputation is really important and that brings me to something else which I’m kind of following from a distance but it is going to be huge for the real estate industry, and I think for the entire residential industry is right now, the Supreme Court is reviewing a case with the National Association of Realtors and basically to summarize this case is it’s going to eliminate most parts of the country.

When you as a buyer go buy a home, the commissions are paid from the seller’s proceeds, right? So the [inaudible 0:35:03.5] who represents the seller will get 3% or 2%, whatever it might be for that area and then the buyer’s agent will get the same, right? Two and a half, 3%, whatever it might be. Well, under this new rule, it would be more like the commercial market, where a buyer of a commercial piece of property in a lot of cases pays their broker out of their own pocket, right? So they pay the 3% out of their own pocket.

Well, this is really significant for the entire industry, because however you’re going to source business as a real estate agent, your buyers are going to have to be educated now because they’re going to be responsible before your pay because of this new Supreme Court ruling not allowing the listing agent. So there is a lot of moving parts here, I don’t want to speculate.

[0:35:50.0] TU1: Wow.

[0:35:50.2] TU2: But it is a huge thing that I think not a lot of people know about. Some of the big real estate companies are talking about it but it’s a huge deal because in my mind, I’m looking at it I’m like, “Well, what do we do?” So you know, we do allow 3% seller concessions, can we increase the loan amount to cover part of it? I mean, is that going to still be allowed? Because a lot of first-time home buyers are going to be impacted [inaudible 0:36:14.4] either agent two and a half, 3% of the sales price, right?

So I think in the end, it’s going to be net-net the same day everyone because it’s going to mean, “All right, so the price is a little lower because you are paying that extra 3% directly,” but it could end up being, “Hey, you have to come up with more money at closing.” So this is a moving conversation.

I haven’t followed it close enough to know exactly when it’s going to come out. I don’t think the industry knows when the ruling is actually going to come out and which way it’s going to go but it’s like a lot of really smart people in the real estate business I’ve spoken to have told me that they think it’s going to pass or it’s going to change the dynamics of the industry.

So it’s just something to watch and if you’re kind of on the fence now buy, I would say, you’re going to buy and you’re going to be – you know, kind of my thoughts on buying is if you’re going to be in a city for five years or more, it’s almost a no brainer to buy. I mean, even if property values fail by 5% or 10% or whatever, between amortization, tax deductions, escalations annually, it’s hard to lose.

I mean, home ownership in the long run is just one of the best wealth-building tools, probably a good idea to do it before that ruling, right? If it does end up going the other way and you gotta come up with that additional 3% for your agent because it’s really going to change a lot of dynamics.

[0:37:39.3] TU1: Certainly a lot to follow there and a couple of thoughts are coming to mind, Tony, was one, you know the implications of a buyer now having to come forward with those dollars, right? Already – especially first-time home buyers, you know bringing cash to the table can be a challenge, and then I thought about the characteristics you listed off of a good agent.

You know, excellent communication, experience I think is one that is really significant. You see a huge range of experience and expertise and agents in terms of how many homes are they selling or working with the buyer-seller throughout the year, and for how many years? And then reputation in terms of reputation with other agents, are they kind, do they do business in a good way? But those characteristics I think, especially with that responsibility, potentially falling on the buyer. You know, anytime somebody has skin in the game now, they’re going to be looking for more of that, right? Whereas, I think right now, the bar of entry and to somebody choosing an agent is probably pretty low because they’re not necessarily feeling the financial transaction of that.

So great insights, that’s something we’ll be following as well and really appreciate your perspective as we went through this checklist as well. For folks that want to get connected with Tony and learn more, make sure to check out, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. You can click on “get started” and we’ll make sure to get you over to Tony. As always, Tony, I really appreciate your perspective and having you on the show.

[0:39:00.5] TU2: Thanks for having me, always great to be here. Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:39:04.2] TU1: Before we wrap up today’s show, I want to again, thank this week’s sponsor of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, First Horizon. We’re glad to have found a solution for pharmacists that are unable to save 20% for a down payment on a home.

A lot of pharmacists in the YFP community have taken advantage of First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan, which requires a 3% down payment for a single-family home or townhome for first-time home buyers and has no PMI on a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage.

To learn more about the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan and to get started with the preapproval process, you can visit, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.

[DISCLAIMER]

[0:39:48.9] TU1: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only, and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information on the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post, and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 206: Three Strategies for Buying a House with Student Loans

Posted on by yfpadmin

Three Strategies for Buying a House with Student Loans

Nate Hedrick discusses strategies for buying a home with student loans. He talks about the decision to rent vs. buy, how to determine when you’re ready to buy, and three strategies to consider when deciding to buy a home with student loans.

About Today’s Guest

Nate Hedrick is a full-time pharmacist by day, husband and father by evening and weekend, and real estate agent, investor, and blogger by late night and early morning. He has a passion for staying uncomfortable and is always on the lookout for a new challenge or a project. He found real estate investing in 2016 after his $300,000+ student loan debt led him to read Rich Dad Poor Dad. This book opened his mind to the possibilities of financial freedom and he has been obsessed ever since. After earning his real estate license in 2017, Nate founded Real Estate RPH as a source for real estate education designed with pharmacists in mind. Since then, he has helped dozens of pharmacists around the country realize their dream of owning a home or starting their investing journey. Nate resides in Cleveland, Ohio with his wife, Kristen, his two daughters Molly and Lucy, and his rescue dog Lexi.

Summary

Nate Hedrick returns to the show to discuss knowing when you are ready to buy a home, questions to ask yourself to gauge your readiness, and three strategies for buying when you have student loans.

The first strategy for buying a home when you have student loans is to buy a home as soon as possible. The advantages of this strategy include immediate emotional satisfaction, being your landlord, building equity in your home, and tax advantages for homeownership realized. The disadvantages include high upfront costs, increased likelihood of paying PMI, the effect the purchase may have on your budget, and the decrease in flexibility to move at will.

The second strategy is to pay off your student loans first, then buy a home. The advantages to this strategy are emotional relief from debts being gone, increased flexibility in the budget, and potentially increased emergency funds should problems arise. Disadvantages to this strategy include a period of renting and not building equity, potential loss of market appreciation, potentially missing out on historically low-interest rates, and delayed access to tax benefits.

The third strategy is more of a hybrid model. In this strategy, the homebuyer pays down the student loans and then buys a home. With this third strategy, there may be a feeling of relief and confidence, less overall debt, and a lower risk of defaulting on payments. Disadvantages are the same as the second strategy, though generally for a shorter time.

Mentioned on the Show

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich: Nate, welcome back to the show.

Nate Hedrick: Hey, Tim, great to be here.

Tim Ulbrich: It’s been so fun to hear you and David on the Real Estate Investing podcast as hosts. I shared with you before we hit record, I’ve enjoyed being a fan of the show, love hearing other pharmacists’ stories about their real estate investing journey. So kudos to you and David on the work that you’ve been doing. That’s not what we’re going to talk about here today, though. I want to bring you on as a guest in your role as The Real Estate RPh, someone who has expertise on the home buying side, also being a real estate agent, so we can dig into the topic that I think is front-of-mind for so many pharmacists out there, especially in this real estate market, and that is buying a home while still dealing with student loan debt. So Nate, before we jump in, I think folks if they’ve listened to any of the news lately, they know the chaos that is the real estate market right now. But just give us a quick pulse from what you’re seeing in your market in Cleveland and obviously as an agent in helping other pharmacists.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, absolutely. And thanks, it’s been really fun getting started with the podcast. And David and I are having a blast meeting all these great pharmacists doing real estate investing. And it’s been a really fun time. So but yeah, the market right now is obviously a big seller’s market. There is very low inventory. The interest rates are low, so it’s driving up people that want to buy because money is cheap. And so we’re seeing a lot of bidding wars. Houses come on the market and there’s 10 or 11 offers by Saturday afternoon and people are looking for highest and best by Sunday evening. And so it’s just — it’s a bit crazy. It’s nice for a market with my sellers. I had a listing that was on the market I think — I don’t know — two or three days that we got a full-price ask. So it’s really nice to have listings, but my buyers, it’s a lot of work. We’re doing a lot of offers that include escalation clauses, which bump up the price, and appraisal gap coverage and all kinds of crazy stuff.

Tim Ulbrich: I was thinking about you last week, you know, for agents that are obviously working with the buying and the selling side, like what a difference of just — I mean, effort of course and work but also I mean, you know, on one end you might be working with somebody who’s putting in one offer that is one of 10, 15, 20 offers. On the other end, it’s like, keep them coming. Keep the offers coming and we’re going to react to the best one.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, I had a physician client, two young physicians, new residency here in Cleveland, they’re moving from D.C. back to Cleveland. And I think we ended up looking at — it had to be 60 houses. It was the most I’ve ever seen with one client. And there’s other real estate agents that are listening that are probably like, that’s not a lot. But for me, that was a ton, a ton of houses. We did one offer every week and one offer every weekend, so two a week at least. It took us 10 or 11 houses, or 10 or 11 offers to get something accepted for them. But they’ve got a great house. It just took a ton, a ton of effort to get them there.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. Persistence for sure. So let’s talk about home buying and student loans. You know, our audience knows well that pharmacists today are facing big mountains of student loan, $175,000 is the median indebtedness for a pharmacy graduate in 2020. Hopefully we’ll be getting the 2021 data here soon. But I think we know where that number is going to be going. And we often hear from folks in the YFP community as well as prospective financial planning clients of ours at Your Financial Pharmacist Planning that pharmacists are often trying to juggle several competing financial priorities, which really of course depends on the person, right? It could be buying a home, paying down debt, investing, saving for retirement, the list goes on and on. And what we often do when it comes to comprehensive financial planning is we’re working with clients to help them determine their financial and their life goals and to ultimately develop and establish a plan to help those individuals reach those goals. So when we talk here about student loan debt, obviously one big goal that we hear from many folks in the community, a big barrier is I want to get a home, but I’ve got all this student loan debt. And when is the right time? And so I think there’s this question of, is there a best time? You know, what are the different options that are out there? So Nate, high level, what do you think of as kind of the buckets or strategies that folks may be thinking about when it comes to buying a home while also focusing on student loan repayment?

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, and I think this is, you know, regardless of the market, there are three main options for what this looks like. And you do this in a buyer’s market or a seller’s market. But you know, Option 1 is kind of the “I want everything now,” right? Buy a home ASAP. Go ahead and just do it. Option 2 would then be the opposite of that where you’re paying down all your debt first and then you buy a house, and that’s like the very Dave Ramsey approach. And then there’s Option 3, which we’ll talk a lot about I think as we go through this. But that’s kind of what I call the hybrid approach, where you’re looking at getting rid of the bad debt first and then going ahead and purchase that home, even though you’ve got some of those student loans in place. And we’ll talk through those details.

Tim Ulbrich: So we’ll dig into each of those strategies. First things first, you have to decide if it’s renting, is it buying, what’s the best move for you going forward? And really, if you do choose to buy a home, knowing whether or not you’re ready and being prepared to do so. So Nate, just some initial thoughts on how can someone determine if they are ready to buy a home.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, absolutely. I think there are a lot of things you can do in advance to make sure that you are prepared for that process and some questions you can kind of evaluate to determine is it right for me to rent? Is it a good time for me to jump in and start buying? And again, how do my other finances fit in with that? So you know, for example, are your student loans at a point where they are causing you significant stress? That’s just one easy-to-answer question, right? Are these driving me crazy? Are they the thing that I can’t stop thinking about? Or is it that I need to go buy a house first? And if your answer to that question becomes, absolutely, I’ve got to get rid of these student loans, it’s the thing that’s killing me, maybe you need to wait on that house purchase. And so questions like that can help you start to figure out where are your priorities, and then you can start looking at the actual financial pieces. You know, for example, do I have an emergency fund? Am I contributing to my retirement fund on a regular basis? Right? I would typically advise somebody to have those things in place first before going out and purchasing a home. You know, there are advantages to buying that house but not in replacing your emergency fund or taking away from your retirement just so you can go do it. So those early financial questions I think are a really good place to start so that you know your priorities before deciding what strategy is right for you.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, Nate, what I like about those questions, one thing I talk often about on the show — our audience has heard me on repeat say this — is really trying to avoid making any financial decision in a silo. Right? Taking a step back and saying, what else is going on with the financial plan? And I think in this scenario, right, we’re talking about home buying, we’re in the spring of 2021, the market is en fuego, like you’re talking to peers and friends and colleagues and others that are buying homes, it’s all over the news, interest rates are low, like that puts the pressure — perhaps — on like OK, got to buy, got to buy, got to buy, especially if folks are having that as an interest. And these questions, you know, are my student loans and other debt causing significant stress? What about my emergency fund? Where am I at with my retirement funds? Where are the contributions? How might this position to buy v. continue to rent ultimately direct that? So really taking that step back and asking those questions and also being fair that rent prices right now are also en fuego. So like this may not be necessarily just a home prices are escalating, therefore it’s best to stay put. But I think asking these questions to really try to evaluate it, you know, as objectively as you can with the rest of your financial plan in consideration. So let’s dig into those three strategies that you mentioned, Nate. And we’re talking here again about paying off student loans while also looking at purchasing a home. You mentioned No. 1 is “I want it now,” right? So ultimately, you know, getting the home as soon as possible and really focusing on that. The second approach you mentioned is really more of that Dave Ramsey type of approach of OK, let’s pay down all of the debt and then we’ll even think about a home after that. And then the third you mentioned is more of a hybrid approach. So let’s start with No. 1, the “I want it now,” buy a home as soon as possible. So who is this strategy for? Talk to us more about some considerations around this strategy.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah. And so full disclosure, this was me about seven years ago, right? We had come out of pharmacy school and residency and decided we wanted a house. We wanted space to call our own, we wanted space for our dog, we wanted — like, you name it, there were 10 reasons why emotionally we were ready to have a house. And so for us, it became alright, that’s going to be the driving decision, we’ll figure out the costs later. I don’t care, we’re going to buy a house. And so this strategy is really for those people that say, “Look, I am ready to jump in. I am comfortable with where my student loans are at, or comfortable enough that I can take this financial responsibility, and it’s time for us to dive in and take a look at purchasing that actual house.”

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, the other group I think about here too, Nate, you know, without getting into the weeds of student loans, would be for those that are pursuing a forgiveness option, right? So whether it’s PSLF, Public Service Loan Forgiveness, non-Public Service Loan Forgiveness — if you’re hearing those terms for the first time or want any more information, check out any previous YFP episode. I think we’ve talked about them. But you know, when I think about the strategy around forgiveness, now, granted if that is the right move, which is a further conversation back to my point about not looking at things in a silo — if Public Service Loan Forgiveness of non-Public Service Loan Forgiveness is the path forward, typically the strategy is then, OK, what can we do to minimize payment, maximize forgiveness. Well in that case, there might be additional cash flow, right, that’s there on a month-by-month basis that may not be the case if somebody’s let’s say in an aggressive repayment, either in the federal program or in the refinance. So great example where student loan strategy can really intersect here with the home buying discussion and decision as well. So advantages and risks. So as we talk about this strategy, Nate, buy a home as soon as possible, “I want it now,” what are some advantages? What are some potential disadvantages or risks?

Nate Hedrick: Yeah. I think most of the advantages here are emotional, right? I think they’re kind of obvious from that standpoint. You get the house, you get to become a landlord right away. But there are a couple of financial advantages as well. One is that you build that equity and that credit right away. I mean, if you had been in my shoes seven years ago and now where the housing market is today, right, our house has gone up tremendously in value just sitting here and enjoying it. So there is some advantage to that. You’ve got tax advantages as well. You know, you get to pay down or at least deduct in some capacity your mortgage interest and some of your property taxes in some cases. So there are definite financial advantages, but I think in this strategy, most of the advantage side is leaning toward the emotional aspects. And then on the risks or the disadvantages I guess, you know, obviously there’s less flexibility built in. You know, renting is great because you have that flexibility if your job changes or if you want to go to a different location. There’s higher upfront costs from doing it this way. Obviously you’ve got a lot more debt load, a lot more debt-to-income ratio is being increased by doing this. So you know, from a financial aspect, it’s a bit more tricky for sure.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and I think I’ve talked about this on the show before when we had a discussion on renting versus buying — we’ll link to that previous episode in the show notes — but you know, don’t forget about all the other costs. Right? We’ve talked about this on other episodes before, all of the other costs that come along with the home purchase, not necessarily just doing a rent payment comparison against what would it be with mortgage .Obviously you’ve got taxes, you’ve got insurance, you’ve got things that you need to furnish the home, take care of the house, etc., other costs that can be a significant factor. So strategy No. 2, get rid of all of the debt, then buy a home. Now I know folks are going to hear this, Nate, because I was in bucket No. 1, right, so I’m with you there. You know, folks that are looking at $175,000-250,000 of debt, like seriously? Like wait until I have all of that paid off? I mean, you know, some may — as we’ve had featured on the show before — some might be able to knock that out in 2, 3, 4 years very aggressively. But many folks are looking at 10, 15, 20-year repayment. So where does this strategy fall? What might this be an opportunity for some folks to consider when we talk about getting rid of all of your loans and then buying a home?

Nate Hedrick: Yeah. I definitely think this plays into someone who might have a smaller debt load than the average pharmacist. And by smaller, you could still be talking about $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 but something that you can tackle in 1 or 2 years if you really were aggressive with it. I think you’re right, the typical pharmacist or even the typical pharmacist couple in some cases where you’re coming out with $300,000 together in debt, like it’s just — it may not be possible to choose this strategy and still make financial sense. But there are plenty that do it. I mean, take a look at Tim Church’s story, right? He went out and him and his wife really focused every dollar on getting rid of that debt first and again, because it was a major pain point for them. They said, “I hate this debt. And the idea of taking on more makes me sick to my stomach. I can’t do it.” So if you’re one of those people, this might be the right call for you.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and I think that’s a good reminder, you know, Nate, of like really being true to how you emotionally feel. Here, we’re talking about how you emotionally feel about debt but also it will be about how you emotionally feel about other parts of the financial plan and not necessarily just what someone else is doing or what else you have read but really being true to how do you feel about that. And then this case, an obvious advantage would be if you just hate the idea of that student loan debt and you can really aggressively pay that off, then obviously the advantage being you’re going to have a lot of relief from having no other debt and be able to move into that home in a very confident financial position. So that of course is one advantage. What are some other advantages that you think about with this strategy as well as some disadvantages or risks?

Nate Hedrick: Yeah. From the advantage side, I definitely think that you have more flexibility once you get there. Right? All of the advantages are kind of once you get there. But you have that more flexibility in your budget when you’re ready to buy a home, you’ve got greater cushion, you can make bigger mortgage payments, especially if something unexpected comes up. So I know a couple of physician and pharmacist friends who are looking at methods like this where they want to get rid of their debt first so that one of them can cut back on their hours and they can still afford that home that they want to purchase. So there are definitely — it provides more flexibility, but again, a lot of those advantages don’t kick in until you paid off that debt. So you’re kind of sitting on the disadvantages until that point. And so again, obviously the risks there are it could take you several years to get there and you’re not building any equity in that time. And so you could miss out on significant market appreciation. You also could miss out on locking in these great interest rates that we’re having right now. I mean, we are talking about truly, truly historic lows. They’ve come up a little bit in the last couple of months as buying interest has increased, but I mean, truthfully, you cannot get interest rates much lower than they are right now. And so you might miss out on that if it takes you 2 or 3 more years to get access. And then of course, you know, there are very few advantages for income earners like ourselves in terms of tax implications. But getting a mortgage is one, and so you miss out on that small advantage as well.

Tim Ulbrich: I think interest rates is an interesting conversation, especially for those that are new graduates that are looking for a home or recent graduates. You know, Nate, it feels like — you know I graduated 2008, you were a few years after that — like we’ve been in a historically low interest rate period. Right? So I don’t feel like I have an appreciation — like when we say historically low rates, it’s like, yeah, they are relative to where they’ve been, but they were still really good just a couple years ago. And before that, we were talking about historically low rates that were there as well.

Nate Hedrick: Right.

Tim Ulbrich: So we don’t have the perspective. Like go talk to my parents or talk to my grandparents, and you hear stories of double-digit interest rates and other things. So definitely an important consideration, but I think it has become somewhat of a norm that we’ve been used to here more recently. But who knows where that will go here in the next year or so?

Nate Hedrick: Definitely.

Tim Ulbrich: Third strategy you mentioned, Nate, is a little bit more of a hybrid approach. So what do you exactly mean by that?

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, and so this is one that I really advocate for, which is really getting your financial house in some sort of order and then going off and purchasing that home. So it’s not paying down everything, but it’s also not just jumping in head first. What this looks like is getting those student loans either refinanced or into a student loan forgiveness program or under some sort of control, getting rid of the other bad debt that you might have, credit card debt, for example, getting rid of that stuff first, the things that are really going to outpace any of the advantages you get with purchasing a home. And once you’ve got that in line, you’ve saved up a sizable down payment so that you’re avoiding things like PMI or any sort of getting rid of your emergency fund, then you go forward and purchase that home. So it’s really about maximizing the benefits, minimizing the risks and trying to balance that out.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, this really intrigues me, Nate, and I wish I would have had you in my ear back in 2009 because I think what resonates with me with this strategy is, you know, I went into the buy a home ASAP. And I think with just a little bit more time, if I would have been able to really better understand like what are all of my student loan repayment options and what is the best fit for Jess and I in this repayment journey — and when I think about this, I think about locking in your strategy. Right? So it doesn’t mean — here, as you’ve articulated, it doesn’t mean you’re debt-free before you’re purchasing a home. That was No. 2. But we’ve got a game plan, and we know exactly what that game plan is, we’ve considered other parts of the financial plan. So whether that’s refinancing, whether that’s loan forgiveness, whether that’s some other plan, we know what that’s going to look like month-to-month, we know what the total amount is going to be paid or total amount that also may be forgiven in a forgiveness plan. And so now, we can put in that one puzzle piece of the plan of the student loans so we can then start to move these other puzzle pieces like the home in around it. Right? But we’re not moving into the home purchase decision still wondering like, what is the student loan plan? You know? What might this look like? We talk often on this topic, webinars and speaking events and other things, and I often will show a slide and a chart that shows for a pharmacist coming out with $150,000 or $200,000 of debt, if they choose Option A, B, C, D, or E when it comes to student loan repayment, whether that’s forgiveness or non-forgiveness, federal or private, there’s a difference, big difference that can happen on a monthly payment basis as well as what’s paid out over the life of the loan. So if that’s a question mark, you know, and you haven’t evaluated those options, I think it’s really difficult to know where does that home piece fit in around that, if the payment is going to look like on a month-to-month basis is still unknown. So talk to us then, Nate, about the advantages and disadvantages of this strategy when it comes to this hybrid approach of paying down the student loans and having a strategy while also moving forward with home buying.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, I think this really tries to play into the advantage — it really ups the advantages where it can and then it kind of disengages those risks wherever it’s possible. So for example, you’ve got that feeling of relief because you’re going to have the student loans under some sort of control, right? They’re not going to be gone.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah.

Nate Hedrick: But maybe you’ve refinanced them down to 3% now and now you know, OK, this is basically like inflation money. I have my payment, I’ve got that figured out every month, and I can stack things on top of that. It also helps because hopefully you’re going to be taking on less overall debt, especially if you’re taking the time to build up that down payment, that emergency fund, you know, and maybe you’re paying off things like — or you’re getting enough down payment that you’re going to avoid PMI or using a pharmacist home loan product to avoid PMI. All of those things are going to help you in taking on less overall bad debt. So those big advantages, and then again, kind of the ultimate is that if something does happen, right, if you lose a job, if you miss out on work for a period of time, or someone needs to cut back on hours, you have a lower risk of defaulting on those payments because you’ve set yourself up for success from the beginning. It’s not perfect, you’ve not paid down all that debt going into it. But you’re getting that home a little bit sooner, and you’ve got this cushion built in that may help you out. The disadvantages is obviously this still could take time, right? You could still take 2 years to approach this hybrid model where it makes sense. I like to think that you can pull this off in probably a year, a year and a half, because really, truly getting that down payment saved up in that time should be doable, especially using like a pharmacist home loan product. But you are waiting. It’s not getting the house tomorrow. It’s giving it a little bit of time still.

Tim Ulbrich: Great stuff. And for those that heard the three strategies and the discussion we’ve had here today and want a refresher without going back and hitting replay on this episode, Nate has put this into a blog post, “Three Strategies for Buying a House with Student Loans.” That’s available at YourFinancialPharmacist.com, on the YFP blog, and we’ll link to that in the show notes. Nate, I want to spend a few minutes and talk about the Real Estate RPh concierge service that we offer to the YFP community because I think that many folks that are listening to this are probably somewhere in the stages of home buying, whether that’s a hey, I’m out there looking right now, or I’m going to get started. Maybe it’s three months out, six months out, whatever be the case. But we know how important it is to have an agent that understands your situation and really ultimately has your best interests in mind. And we’ve got the advantage of having you, Nate, as someone who both understands the pharmacist, is a real estate agent, has gone through this process of student loan repayment and making a decision to buy a home, and I think that perspective can be incredibly valuable to other pharmacists that are in the home buying decision-making process. So Nate, tell us about exactly what is the real estate concierge service and what folks can expect as they go throughout that.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, so this goes back to when I bought my first house. And it came time to get myself an agent, right, I knew I was a buyer, I knew that getting an agent was basically free. But that’s about all I knew, right? I knew that I needed to go find one. And so I started asking my friends. And someone said, “Oh yeah, here, use this person.” And they were fine. They did their job OK. But as I learned more about real estate, becoming an agent, working with clients, I realized there was a lot of things that they could have done differently and that I wish I would have known as a buyer from the beginning. And so I said, “We can improve that for other people. Let’s go out and do that.” And so what I do is I actually connect with potential buyers, with pharmacists like yourselves or with anybody that’s looking to purchase a home anywhere in the country. We do a 30-minute planning call. It usually doesn’t take that long, but I at least set aside that 30 minutes to answer questions, go through the home buying process with you so that you can fully understand it, ask any questions that you have about it, and then once we have that conversation, I go out and I find you a great real estate agent. And sometimes it’s somebody we’ve already worked with, we’ve helped over 30 pharmacists close on houses at this point, which is pretty fun. And — so it might be somebody we’ve already worked with in the past, or it might be somebody that we simply know from interviewing them. And so I’ll go out and I’ll interview agents, try to match up someone who I think is going to be a really good fit for you. And then we get you connected, and you get off to the races with this great, personally-vetted agent. The other cool thing is that I don’t leave once that connection takes place. I get to be still a part of your team. And so if you need a second opinion, if you just want to bounce ideas off of me, somebody that isn’t your agent but is an agent, you can come right back to me, sign up for another call, send me some emails. You know, it just gives you that person in your back pocket that knows and understands this process to really help you out. And so it’s been a great tool for our pharmacists to tap into and our community to tap into. We’ve had a lot of success over the last year or so.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, that’s great, Nate. And for our community, this really initiated I think in part because of really the value that I see Nate brings to the community, his expertise in this area. We’ve known each I think for the better part of a decade now.

Nate Hedrick: Yep.

Tim Ulbrich: I realized that this topic of home buying is something that close behind student loans and some others is really top-of-mind for our community and going through this process firsthand a couple times, know how important it is to have a good agent that is in your corner. So —

Nate Hedrick: Especially in this market.

Tim Ulbrich: Yes. Big yes.

Nate Hedrick: I mean, having somebody that’s going to be able to fight for you and understand what kind of things are going to get the deals done — if you’re a buyer, I mean, that is so, so essential right now. I’ve seen tons of people that just get frustrated because the agent they’re working with isn’t helping them along or not explaining it to them well enough, and then they just say, “You know what, forget it. I’m just going to rent for another year. I’ll figure it out later.” But a lot of the agents that we work with, like they understand this market, they work in it every single day. And they’re able to navigate it for you and help you actually achieve that home buying process.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and full disclosure, as Nate mentioned, the service is completely free to use for the buyer. If you work with an agent within the network that is referred and end up closing on a property, then that agent pays a small commission back to Nate. So that’s full transparency of how the process works. Obviously having Nate in your corner can be a valuable resource. We know that home buying, it’s an exciting experience, it can also be overwhelming at times. You’ve got finding an agent, financing, searching for the place, this market, as you mentioned, Nate, so that’s really the value I think that can be brought through the concierge service and working with Nate. So for those that are interested, YourFinancialPharmacist.com, top of the page, you’ll see Buy or Refi a Home. Then you can click on Find an Agent. That’ll get you connected to getting some time on Nate’s calendar. And we’ll also link to that directly in the show notes. Nate, as always, appreciate you taking the time, appreciate your expertise, and looking forward to having you back on the show in the future.

Nate Hedrick: Yeah, thanks for having me. And we’ll talk again soon I’m sure.

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