Tag: personal finance

In this episode, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, and Tim Baker, CFP®, RICP®, RLP® dive into the challenges and rewards of managing money in a relationship.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, and Tim Baker, CFP®, RICP®, RLP® dive into the challenges and rewards of managing money in a relationship.

They break down how different approaches—whether merging finances completely, keeping some things separate, or managing everything individually—can impact your financial harmony. Through real-life insights, Tim and Tim highlight the power of open communication, understanding each other’s money habits, and creating a shared financial vision. They also discuss when and how a neutral third party can help navigate tough conversations.

No matter where you are in your relationship—just starting out, engaged, or years into marriage—this episode offers practical advice to help you and your partner build a financial plan that works for both of you.

Key Points from the Episode

• [00:00] Introduction and Setting the Stage
• [00:56] Poll Results and Initial Reactions
• [02:06] Cultural and Societal Influences on Financial Management
• [03:21] Personal Experiences and Financial Dynamics
• [04:36] Client Trends and Financial Planning
• [08:06] Understanding Money Personalities
• [21:11] Pros and Cons of Merged vs. Separate Finances
• [30:42] Starting Financial Conversations
• [31:43] Joint vs. Separate Accounts
• [32:31] Managing Household Finances
• [33:57] Setting Financial Goals
• [35:45] The Importance of a Financial Plan
• [36:47] Cultural Differences in Financial Planning
• [40:20] The Role of a Third Party in Financial Planning
• [42:25] Balancing Present and Future Wealth
• [49:51] Creating a Shared Vision
• [59:20] The Value of Financial Planning Services

Episode Highlights

“There is no one right way when  it comes to managing your finances with a partner, significant  other, or spouse.” – Tim Ulbrich [0:50]

“ The more we understand how we grew up around money and how that shapes the perspective we have today, the better chance we have to be able to come together and figure out what this plan looks like going forward.” – Tim Ulbrich [10:05]

“ What I think is best is everything comes into a joint account. So all of the paychecks come into a joint account. And then I think if you do have separate accounts, some dollar amount or some percentage of that can go to  an individual account for you to do whatever you want  with.” -Tim Baker [31:43]

“ If you’re always just living a wealthy life tomorrow, what’s the freaking point?” – Tim Baker [43:37]

“M ost financial planning firms and financial planners are making financial decisions without a vision. And that is backwards.” – Tim Ulbrich [50:24]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP YouTube Channel
• The 5 Money Personalities
• YFP Resource: 25 Financial Discussions for Partners
• YFP 127: A Widow’s Journey to Love, Happiness & Financial Independence
•  YFP Book a Discovery Call
• YFP Disclaimer
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter
• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• Tim Baker on LinkedIn
• YFP on Instagram
• YFP Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich: Tim Baker, good to have you back on the show.

Tim Baker: Good to be back. [00:01:00] How’s it going Tim?

Tim Ulbrich: It’s going well, Valentine’s day, right around the corner. And so it’s only fitting that we talk about love and money. And let me, let me just start, Tim, before we get into the weeds on this, that we are coming from our experience and perspective. And of course, we’re going to talk about a broader perspective, hopefully in different options that people can consider as they’re working with a significant other spouse or partner to manage their finances.

But inevitably. We have a bias of what has worked for us, right? For Jess and I, and for you and Shay. And so we’re going to try to broaden that perspective, but I think it’s important that we acknowledge that right up front and that there is no one right way when it comes to managing your finances with a partner, significant other, or spouse.

And Tim, I want to start by getting your take on a poll I recently. Posted on LinkedIn. And I asked the following question for those that are working with someone else on their finances, which of the following best describes your situation is everything merged or something’s merged, something separate, or is everything separate?

And about [00:02:00] half people said everything was merged. 40 percent said some merged, some separate, and about 10 percent responded that nothing was merged and everything was just separate. What, what are your thoughts on that? Does that match with what you hear typically from, from clients and prospects? Hmm.

Tim Baker: think that the The half of everything merged seems really high to me Like I didn’t I didn’t expect that at all. Um, and I think the the 10 percent um You know where nothing is in merge is merged seems pretty low to me

Tim Ulbrich: Interesting.

Tim Baker: I thought I thought that we would see more of an even dish like not an even distribution, but um, the the all merged Is something I don’t want to say I rarely come across but like I feel like the most common the most common is some merge some separate

Tim Ulbrich: Mm hmm.

Tim Baker: in my experience, so I was a little bit surprised when I saw that poll um but that was the outcome because again, I I think most I think [00:03:00] most and I think I think a lot of like our culture and just how like how we We operate these days of affects this right like we’re getting married later.

Tim Ulbrich: Mm hmm.

Tim Baker: you know, I know I’ve talked about my wife being brazilian like in her culture You you know You you live at home until you get married and I know that some some people here in the united states do that too right, so like um, I think some of some of like well just what’s going on with our Socioeconomics like it’s it’s has changed this but I think by and large I probably see more of a hybrid model Which I think we’ll talk about here in this episode

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. I think your point about, you know, timeline of when people get married or when they have a significant other spouse and that shifting is significant, you know, again, speaking from my perspective or Jess and I, we got married relatively young, 24. Uh, and so we didn’t, neither of us had really a strong process of our own.

Right. So it kind of made sense. And, and we’re in, I guess what you’re calling kind of that, that where a smaller group where everything is merged, [00:04:00] but that would have been very different. I think if we got married at 30 or 35, right. And we were doing things on our own for a while.

Tim Baker: Yeah, I think very, and then I also like, like divorce, right, too, if you’ve experienced that, like your, your, especially if there’s money things that have come out of like, you know, so I think if people have been in serious relationships, and then, you know, are not, and then are in another serious relationship later, like, I think, or, you know, I know, divorce can be traumatic, or just trauma with finances growing up, I know, you got one, just like things, you know, with your family business and things like that, I think there’s all paints, Part of how we, how we look at this.

Um, so yeah, I, I know there’s some people that have gone through, you know, relationships. It’s like, I’m, I’ll never merge again. You know, our finances, like it has to be separate. Now they’re still working and trying to row the boat in the, in the same direction, so to speak. But there has to be kind of a little bit of a separation for them to feel comfortable.

And I, I understand that. And again, it’s not necessarily [00:05:00] something that I’ve had to deal with personally, but. Um, I get where that, where that can come from.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. And to be clear, this is not a scientific Gallup poll, right? This was a poll I just put out there and LinkedIn. I do think we had, I’ll have to go back and look. I think there was 150, 170 people that responded. So it was a sizable group, but certainly not representative of a larger group. Tim, the other thing I wanted to just get your pulse on, because you sit in front of prospective clients every day where you’re having conversations in a very intimate way about their finances as they try to Discover or learn more about our services, see if they’re a good fit.

And as a part of that, naturally you get a inside peek and everything that’s going on, you know, financially. And of course doing that confidentially is you aggregate some of those conversations. What, what are some of the trends that you are seeing? You know, is it what one person who’s typically initiating this conversation and they’re, you know, they’re dragging someone along to be there.

Is it maybe one person who’s making all the [00:06:00] decisions and the second person’s not there at all, or do you see. more cases where it’s, it’s really a shared decision making process to people present at the table.

Tim Baker: Yeah. And, and, and again, probably not an even distribution, but all of those things, Tim, like, I think there’s sometimes where, um, and there, I think there might be some gender dynamics at play and I don’t want to like, you know, uh, generalize or anything, but like. Sometimes it’s, you know, a lot of pharmacists are female, so it might be like, Hey, you know, I’ve been listening to you since like our P2 year on the podcast.

So they feel like they know me or know you, but obviously I’m the one mean with them. Um, and then they might tell their husband, we’ll call husband Brian, they might tell Brian that we’re mean with Tim, um, you know, like five minutes before we actually do, and they don’t know who I am from Adam. Right. So, um, You know, there’s some people that are that are both like in it and and most of the time when I asked a question Like hey, like when you hire a financial planner, like who is the decision maker?

Who are the stakeholders? Like a the overwhelming answer. It’s like it’s the two of us, right? We’re gonna be we’re gonna you know, [00:07:00] basically make this decision together now who takes point and who? Might be our main contact that can differ. Um It’s really really hard at least in in where with what we do to work and this is one of the things that happens a lot and i’m i’m i’m Sometimes unsure how to navigate where you know a person will book a meeting They said that i’m married, but i’m looking for a financial planner just for me And I think again we look at the whole picture.

Typically. We’re not looking at just like a project here and there We’re looking at a holistic kind of longitudinal relationship and sometimes it’s hard If the, if the partner isn’t represented in that. And I, I would say at a minimum, like I want, I need, we need to know like what the joint balance sheet is, right?

We know that like retirement accounts, they’re always individualized. You have an IRA in your name, Tim, right? Uh, you know, there’s a 401k in, you know, Shay’s name, like that type of thing. Like those are not joint accounts. Um. But we want the joint, we want the individual and the [00:08:00] shared balance sheet there, and then we also want like the shared goals, right?

What are we, and again, you could have a goal of, I want to do this and this, and Jessica would have a goal. I want to do that and that, and then we can have shared goals. And I think those have to be in the plan or we’re not really not doing you justice. Right? So all of the things that you mentioned, um, are.

Are are present right and I try to weed out people that are going to be less engaged because again like We want people that are engaged that take our advice for the most part You know, we we feel like the advice that we give is in your best interest. That is the client’s financial plan um But you know both partners are are somewhat, you know plugged into what’s going on but uh, yeah, it can be all over the map right and um You know, it’s just interesting to see how people approach.

And, um, again, people have, I don’t know if we talk about this, but people have different money personalities in terms of how they view money, you know, what, how they’re raised [00:09:00] around money, what is the vocabulary for money, like all that kind of stuff. And again, some, some of that could just be inherent to how, you know, how they are, it could be also like the environment in which they grew up in.

Tim Ulbrich: And I wanna start there, Tim, because I think before we talk about strategies or ways that people may think about. Working on their finances together. I think it’s so important that we first just recognize and understand and reflect on how did we grow up around money? And, you know, what I, what I call kind of know thyself in terms of the money personality, because when you bring two different money personalities together.

Right. Even if you end up having accounts that are, let’s say, completely separate or some combination of merge or separate, and we’ll talk about that more detail here in a little bit, inevitably, there’s going to be conversations where things start to overlap. You mentioned kind of shared goals and visions, and we all come with different money perspectives that shape our money personalities that we have today and what I have found, and I’m making this sound much easier [00:10:00] than it is for the sake of just the time on the podcast, like Jess and I came from very different money personalities.

And it took us a while. I think to really be able to articulate that out loud and say, Hey, these are the strengths that I bring to the table growing up in this environment. And these are the weaknesses that I bring to the table growing up in this environment. And I really felt like that took the pressure off some of the conversation that, you know, we can think about, Hey, because we grew up in this environment and our family maybe budgeted this way, or in my finance, my, my household growing up, everything was merged and I have vivid memories.

Of how my parents did the budget and the conversations and how the small business was a part of that conversation. Of course, that shaped the perspective that I bring good and bad right perspective. And so I think I want to get your thoughts on that because my experience, my personal experience says the more we understand how we grew up around money and how that shapes the perspective we have today, the better chance we have to be able to come together and figure out what this plan looks like [00:11:00] going forward.

Tim Baker: Can I, can I put you on the hot seat, Tim? I’m interested to see, like, cause I, I view again, working with you and Jess in the past, like I view you guys as kind of like similar. In terms of like money, if you don’t mind, like walk, walk us through, like, it might, maybe this will be a good way to kind of talk a little bit about the money personalities and like what those are, but like, where, where, where do you see you?

Because so when I think about many personalities, like the umbrella, and I’ve talked about this before, is you kind of have that person that is like open hand, like more of the spender, right? And underneath that, I think that’s the. The spender, um, the risk taker, and then the other umbrella is the closed hands that people are just like saving, you know, are afraid to part with their dollars.

So that’s typically the security seeker, the saver, and then the, the, the, the person that’s kind of in the middle is the flyer, which they’re kind of more like laissez faire, like money is a thing. Like, I don’t necessarily [00:12:00] worry about it too much. It’s very easy going. And you’re kind of like. in the middle somewhere, right?

So walk me through, if you don’t mind, like what, where do you, where would you say you kind of were and then where Jess, Jess was in, in, in those, uh, you know, in the, in those personalities?

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. Let me reference for, for people that are interested in learning more about what you’re talking about. There’s several assessments out there, but what one that matches up with the terms that Tim’s using. Around like saver, spender, flyer, risk taker is called the five money personalities quiz. And we’ll link to that in the show notes as well.

I’ll say that I think where we have similarities, let’s start there as we, we both grew up in households where the finances were merged. Um, and we both grew up in households where I would say there was shared decision making, but one person who was clearly taking the lead. With the finances and so that that’s the similarities.

I think we’re coming with um For for better or for worse. I I would say I grew up in a household that was uh, [00:13:00] very frugal There was more of a scarcity mindset around money and very much a focus on Saving for the future trying to do everything that we can to plan and prep for the future now Some of that I think comes from growing up in a small business.

Like I have vivid memories In conversations that my parents were having, you know, I remember my mom talking about, Hey, how hard my dad is working in the business. And, you know, we, we necessarily can’t do a, B or C. Because we’re trying to save up for this vacation a year or two years in the future. I remember my mom talking about, Hey, we’re able to go on this vacation that, that we maybe did once a year, once every other year, but it was paid for by coupons and clipping coupons.

And I remember mom kind of worked in the coupons on the living room floor. Right? So those are core memories. You know, I think of inside out, right? Core memories like, and I have carried those very much in. To the way I have approached money for, for better or for worse. I think the, I think the frugality has real benefits, but I have really struggled and have had to work [00:14:00] hard to evolve and have had to have your help and the planning team’s help and Jess’s help to really get outside out of that future only mindset and that scarcity frugality mindset to loosen the reins and ask some of the questions of like, what’s the, so what if today, and how do we find this balance, right?

Of living the rich life today and in the future. And I think on the flip side, Jess. I would say grew up in a family environment where there was some stress and fear and anxiety, uh, around the money, but I think there was, uh, more of an openness to the present moment and, uh, some of the experiences that are in front of us today.

But on the flip side, there was some of that scarcity mindset towards the future. Uh, as well, but there was definitely more of a present that I think she really brings that perspective today, where, where I’m kind of balancing us out to think about tomorrow. She’s really helping us focus in the present.

Tim Baker: yeah, and I think, I think, you know, sometimes I think people think that like if you have [00:15:00] multiple personalities in a, in a planning relationship, like, so if you, if you think about the security seeker, you know, someone who values stability, planning, uh, long term financial security and the saver, you know, they have satisfaction saving money and minimize the expenses.

Like, that end of the spectrum, I think, goes a long way in a financial plan, but I think it’s good to be counterbalanced by a spender, someone who views money as a tool for enjoyment, convenience, um, maybe some immediate gratification, YOLO, I’ve kind of talked about this with my own journey, like, I’ve kind of Going back and forth on this risk taker, right?

That might be someone because again, like it’s funny you say that because like the growing up in my household Like if you ran a business like you’re a risk taker if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a risk taker, right? And maybe not so much right? So risk taker thrives on opportunity Adventure and potential for big financial rewards and again that flyers, you know money’s not a central focus they prioritize other values like [00:16:00] Relationships or passions.

Um, I think it’s good to have, I think if you have all of one thing, if you have two savers or two people, security seeker, you’re, you’re a mess and a fortune hopefully, but for the purpose of what? Right. If you have someone that again opens the hand is spending or taking, you know, big swings and risking it all, you know We want to avoid having to like bag groceries in the future So I think having having that balance in a relationship is good And I think this changes over time like I mentioned, you know I grew up and again, my mom was a teacher.

My dad made some more money. We, we, we were fine. Right. But like my mom did the coupon thing and we scrimped and we saved. And when, if we did go out, it was, you know, we’d order a meal, no, no, no drinks, no desserts. Right. Um, so like, and they put a lot of their money into the house and like where our family spent time.

And, you know, growing up, I was in charge of [00:17:00] like, you need to get to a certain age. I was, I was working like in Russia. I was never allowed to work. Yeah. On a school night. So I’d work on the weekends. I was, I worked at an Irish restaurant where I grew up, but it was like, Hey, if you want to buy a car, like that’s on you, pal.

Like if you want insurance or gas, you know, if you want certain items, that’s on you. So I kind of, you know, fell in line with my mom who was a saver. Um, but then I, when I went into the army and nine 11 happened and it was kind of like Yolo, right? Like it was, I don’t really know if tomorrow’s going to happen.

So like that shaped. Yeah. More where I was more of a spender, right? And then I think I got positives and negatives from both things. And, and, you know, I, I’m kind of at where I am now, which is probably somewhere in the middle, I wouldn’t say I’m a flyer cause I kind of think of that as more maybe like, you know, off, but I would say I look more to the long term and, and Shay, as I’ve said on this as more like, bro, we have kids like,

Tim Ulbrich: This is the

Tim Baker: have one, yeah, this is the season.

We have one shot at this life. And I’ve kind of come around to that [00:18:00] too, because. You know, I do think that because we’re planning and we’re doing the things that we do and, and again, the numbers are, are, um, confirmed by our plan. Like, I feel more at ease. And more, um, um, comfortable spending, spending money, like, you know, especially if it’s for those things that, you know, um, are for our family and, and experiences and things like that.

But this is a hard thing too. And I, like, so we talk about the person that was, I don’t know if a lot of us just have the vocabulary ourselves to have the conversation conversations with ourselves about money versus having it with a. Uh, uh, a person, you know, that you’re in a relationship with, like, we don’t have the vocabulary ourselves.

So how can we expect, especially if we come from different places to be able to, you know, have the conversation, have the vocabulary or ask the right questions. Because again, like, you know, growing up, like money was kind of a taboo thing. Like, I never talked to my parents about how much [00:19:00] money they made, or how we, like, we never really talked, I know we would save, and I think we knew that money was a scarce thing, but, like, we didn’t really talk openly about it, um, and I think that, you know, that not having those conversations is a big deal too, so.

I think that’s why this is really important. This, this topic is really important. It’s, and it’s apropos, we’re doing this around, you know, Valentine’s days because it’s, it’s difficult for ourselves, let alone introducing a completely, you know, new set of beliefs and that type of

Tim Ulbrich: Mm hmm. So, first of all, I need you to stop hitting on people that are bagging groceries. Cause that was my first job and my, my favorite job. Uh, I loved it. I loved it. Like every time I go to the grocery store, I get to get the warm and fuzzy still. Like, I don’t know. There’s just something about like the methodical nature of it.

And I felt like it taught me a ton around communication skills, dealing with people like my mom that show up with their box of coupons. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is going to take forever. Right. Not now you just scan like an app and it has all [00:20:00] your coupons

Tim Baker: Yeah.

Tim Ulbrich: but, um, I loved it and I’ll give my boys a hard time every once in a while.

I’ll, I’ll throw out a produce code off the top of my memory. It’s

Tim Baker: No way.

Tim Ulbrich: presses them every time. Yeah. It’s awesome. Well, I used to impress them. They’re getting too old for

Tim Baker: So did you like it because it was kind of like Tetris too? Like, like bagging

Tim Ulbrich: yeah. Like I, I can’t stand how kids these days, right? Bad groceries, like so inefficient, so inefficient, but

Tim Baker: man. Maybe, maybe we need to get you, uh, back, back. I mean, the whole point of, of, uh, financial plan is hopefully to have to avoid that, Tim. So you don’t have to moonlight. But maybe a, but maybe no hate. Maybe that’s a, maybe that’s a good kind of a sunset job. I mean, I could see, I could see that being a cool job, especially you’re talking to people.

Um, no hate on

Tim Ulbrich: I liked it.

Tim Baker: my end. Yeah.

Tim Ulbrich: So fun fact for the YFP community, my IPMs, which is the items per minute. That’s the KPI for the cashiers. My IPMs were top at the top [00:21:00] supermarket in Western New York. So fun

Tim Baker: Whoa. That’s a quite, quite the, quite the flex.

Tim Ulbrich: but I, I think your point about emotional vocabulary is, is so important, right? Because my experience, Tim tells me that. When the emotional vocabulary isn’t there to be able to first identify yourself, where does some of these money scripts come from to then be able to initiate a conversation? This comes out sideways, right?

And I can think about some early experiences in our marriage where, you know, might, might lead to passive aggressiveness or, you know, internalizing some of what really is underneath that, which is the scarcity or the fear or the other things that has nothing or almost nothing to do with what actually is being spent.

But it’s activating an emotion that may be related to how we were brought up financially and, and being able to put a name to that, I think is so important. So let, let’s shift gears. We talked at the beginning about in terms of, of managing, [00:22:00] practically managing accounts and month to month finances, whether it’s credit cards, checking accounts, you know, some, some partners, some couples decide to have everything separate.

Some decide to merge everything and then others do a little bit of both. And from a high level, what, what do you see as the pros and cons to those approaches and functionally, like what, what does that potentially look like? And I’m, I’m specifically thinking about the group that maybe you said is the, is probably the largest group that has some merge and some separate.

How, how does that practically work?

Tim Baker: Yeah. So we divide these into three groups. We’ll, we’ll kind of go through the completely merged, the completely separate and then the hybrid. So I think if we look at the completely, the completely merged, I think some of the pros. For that group is simplicity and transparency, right? You know when one hand is washed on the other type of thing so you’re managing One a set of accounts to track expenses.

It makes budgeting and saving a lot easier Um, you know, I think full visibility can [00:23:00] foster Trust and reduce the chances of surprises Um, I think it’s easier to kind of align your financial goals. So it encourages more of a teamwork approach um You know, whether it’s a big goal or even something that’s, you know, less so, um, I think it promotes regular conversations.

Like, Hey, can you transfer that, you know, or can you, can you make sure that the money’s there? Because this bill is coming out, um, and it helps partners are on the same page. Um, I think it increases efficiency in, in money man, management. I know one of the things I was jealous about that you said, where you’re taking a lot of those like, um, uh, expenses that you always had, you know, we had to buy paper towels every three months or whatever.

And you’re like automating that with like, Amazon or whatever it is like in my house. So I couldn’t really do that because kind of shade takes care of that. So it’s kind of out of sight, out of mind for me. Right. Um, it could be with managing debt, you know, if you’re again, everything is, if you, if you have a shared credit card that, you know, kind of got out of whack, you’re seeing it, you know, together, um, and even investments again, most, most, [00:24:00] most of it, uh, retirement accounts are, are separate, but you know, you can, you can have joint investments.

Um, I think it helps streamline things like the redheaded stepchild of the financial plan estate planning. Um, that people often, you know, forget about if a partner becomes incapacitated, it’s easier to find stuff. Um, you know, and I think just easier during like life transition. So again, in the case of an emergency, um, a death, hopefully not, you know, the, the surviving partner has immediate access to all funds without any legal hurdles.

I think the cons here are, and I think this is probably the big thing is like loss of financial autonomy. So where, you know, like, hey, I was a grown up. I got my big boy job, big girl job. I’ve been kind of living on my own. And all of a sudden, um, Mary, I’m getting married and you want me to like combine everything like that.

It feels restrictive. I don’t I don’t like that. Um, I feel I feel controlled and that can lead to conflicts and spending habits and things like that. Um, [00:25:00] I think it could be potential for like power imbalances is like if one partner earns significantly more and everything is joint, they might feel entitled to have more control or, you know, the tiebreaker and that could create tension.

Um, the, the, I’ve definitely seen this where the lower earning partner might feel guilty about spending, so they don’t, they, they themselves don’t feel like they’re on the same level because. You know, they feel like that what they’re bringing to the table is not equitable. Um, could be conflicts over spending priorities.

So just, you know, the spender versus the saver can lead to frequent agreement, uh, agreements, disagreements where, you know, if you have kind of your separate playgrounds, your separate accounts that maybe that’s less so. Um, and then complications again, in case of divorce or separation, um, you know, Things, things like that, you know, and, and there’s probably a risk there too.

Like if one partner is less financially responsible, their actions can negatively impact both partners, credit scores and financial stability. So that’s

Tim Ulbrich: merged, right.

Tim Baker: Yeah, if they’re merged, so that would probably be the pros [00:26:00] and cons for the, for the merge. If they’re separate, the pros for it being separate is I think you maintain that financial independence that a lot of people kind of establish for a number of years, maybe before they get married.

Like you said, you and Jess were really young when you got married, right? I was, I was older. Um, you know, it’s simplifies, uh, personal spending. So I think like if you have hobbies or gifts, or I just want to spontaneously buy Shay a gift. I don’t want her to see that on a credit card statement.

I feel like this happens for us at like Christmas where I’m like, I’ll see something on Amazon, but she sees everything that we buy. So it’s like, there’s no surprise. So I’ll just say like, don’t look at the Amazon

Tim Ulbrich: to go take cash out. Although

Tim Baker: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. She’s like, why are you taking cash out? Like, you know, are you, you know, what are you buying?

Um, it could potentially. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that’s those are few and far between. Um, it can reduce those power imbalances. So you’re avoiding situation where one feels partner, one, one partner feels dominant, um, easier in the case [00:27:00] of divorce or separation. Again, we don’t plan for that. Um, and again, potentially protects against financial mismanagement.

I know there we’ve had people that we’ve worked with shades as she has experienced this. I had to a degree where a partner Runs up a huge credit card bill. And if you’re on that account, like you’re on the hook. Um, so cons for completely separation is increased complexity with managing shared expenses, right?

So there’s more coordination when you’re, you’re split in household bills, who pays for what some people, and they can do this. In either scenario, but you have some people that will live off of one income and everything The other income is is is cream. It’s you know, so that doesn’t matter but like it could be there um, there could be potential secrecy and mistrust like You know, sometimes we get scared of something that we don’t understand or see.

So, you know, that, that could be there. I think it takes more of a lift to have alignment in financial goals. Um, it could be inequity and kind of the lifestyle contributions of like, how are [00:28:00] we, how are we doing this? Cause again, in this model, a lot of it is, um, completely separate. So like, if I’m just paying for the electric bill, but you’re paying for the mortgage, like, how does

Tim Ulbrich: do we work that out? Yeah.

Tim Baker: and more complicated in emergencies, that type of thing. So that would be the second, the second bucket. And then probably the most common that I see is kind of some merged, some separate. So the pro here is you kind of get the best of both worlds. You have, you have some financial independence with the benefits of shared financial management.

Um couples can maintain autonomy over personal spending while working together on joint goals So you kind of have you know the venn diagram so to speak you have you know And I think that again, I think for the most part the venn diagram that shared shaded area should be the Biggest and then you have like the outlier of kind of your own maybe accounts um simplified shared expenses Encourages healthy communication.

So couples still need to discuss and agree on contributions um Promotes transparency, but also allows you to [00:29:00] have, you know, a little bit of space Um reduce financial stress. I think the cons here is again. You still have that potential for financial imbalance Um, there’s still complexity in the money management if you’re again managing multiple accounts I think you still have a risk of you know, what’s yours versus ours and then how does that does that create?

A space or, uh, an arm’s length in your, in your marriage, um, and then I think less financial, you know, visibility and things like that. I think regardless of approach, no matter where you, and I, and I think more so than others, like it’s clear communication. Right. So sometimes you’re clearly communicating by default.

So if I have, everything’s like shake and see, she knows that I can, I just spend a hundred dollars on a bottle of Brown, right? And she’s like, dude, what, what the

Tim Ulbrich: She’s used to it by now.

Tim Baker: she’s used to it. So I think clear communication, regardless, I think regular check ins, you know, scheduling periodic financial discussions.

And again, sometimes that’s with the help of financial planner. I [00:30:00] also think that you doing that as a couple is really important. I think clear agreements and setting expectations of, of how things are going to be split or whatever that looks like can prevent conflicts. I kind of think of our partnership charter like, hey, if these things happen, this is what we’re going to do.

I think those are important. And then just being flexible. I think the, the key to any financial plan is not the, you know, nothing is poured in concrete. Right. We need to have flexibility because Things change. Life changes, right? And it is, you know, I’m sure the listeners have heard this, me say this, it’s about planning.

So that’s for you, Corey, planning with an I N G, not the plan, right? Like, cause the plan, once we have it, something happens in the world and you know, the plan goes out the door. So it’s about, it’s about the process of planning.

Tim Ulbrich: Tim communication, and we’re going to come back to talking about the value of a third party. I know it’s something Jess and I have benefited from Tremendously, um, and so we’ll talk about the role is but in terms of couples and [00:31:00] communication, you know, whether you’ve been married for 20 years whether you’re been together for 10 and you’re not married, whether you’re, you know, just started dating.

I think there’s a space for some of these conversations regardless of your situation. And we compile the list of 25 financial discussions for couples. If people want to download that guide, your financial pharmacist. com forward slash a 25. And I often joke with people like, Hey, this is a third party list, right?

So if you’re wanting to start some of these conversations, you know, it’s not, it’s not me coming with the ammo. It’s the, Hey, I read about this. I heard about this on a podcast. We should have these conversations, which, you know, jokingly, but I think that that speaks to some of the value, uh, of the third party.

Hey, give me a visual on the Venn diagram. Cause I do think for a lot of people. That resonates you talked about some merge some separate and in your opinion, you know You want to see that center part to be the the largest part knowing everyone’s situation is different So, you know that might be something like [00:32:00] 70 percent merge 15 15 60 20 20 right something along those lines, but there’s of course variations of that like it is Is all the money coming into the central and then we’re dividing the percentages or are we waiting it, you know, according to what we make.

So, you know, if we’re both contributing toward the mortgage payment, but one person makes 70 percent of the household income, you know, are we contributing equally? Or is it weighted any more details? You can share on that of what you’ve seen people do.

Tim Baker: . What I think is best is everything comes into a, a joint account. So like all of paychecks come into a joint account. And then I think if you do have like separate accounts, some dollar amount or some percentage of that can, you know, go to a, um, an individual account for you to do whatever you want with.

Right. I think what most people do, because again, I think it’s, it’s, you know, the, the inertia of this is here. It’s like, I think what most people do is they put, they [00:33:00] get paid in their normal accounts and then they feed into a joint account. That’s what Shay and I do. And I have always kind of complained about that.

And I think it got to a point, cause again, she’s experienced things in her own life that I think, you know, we are a team and I have no, but like, I think it’s just more of a comfort thing for her. Um, You know, but I don’t even know what the percentage, you know, essentially the way we do and we kind of follow with no budget budget and like we look at all of our expenses and basically she, she’s the tracker, you know, I’m the financial planner, but she actually does all this like so she has a spreadsheet that she says, okay, you know, Zoe’s now in daycare that’s costing us a million dollars a week.

Um, you know, we have this project coming up or whatever. And she basically says, this is how much money you need to put in every paycheck. Right. And then I always push the envelope with like, okay, what are we saving for, for vacations? What are we saving for retirement? Like that’s my role in all of this.

So she kind of does the. the kind of like what is it to run the household and then [00:34:00] we kind of talk about our goals or our major projects and I kind of shared with you how we kind of get up like get the Priority of things and then that’s what we essentially do, right? So that works for us again I think if it were up to me, I would be more of a hey into the joint and then maybe some money out to an individual The percentage is again very widely Um, but I think that for for us, it works because again, it allows me to kind of do some things that have interest that I know she would roll her eyes at.

And I’m just like, you know, she’s like, you know, kind of not absent from that. But I, I look at it as as long as we’re taking care of those. Shorten medium term goals in terms of how we operate the household. And then I know that, hey, we’re maxing out retirement, that’s not even hitting the paycheck, or we’re maxing out an HSA or an IRA, like as long as the, and, and we’re funding, you know, that trip that we’re going on next and we, we calculate that’s gonna be X amount of dollars.

Um, and typically what we just do is we just say, Hey, this is [00:35:00] what we’re paying on the, you know, spending on vacations. We divide that by 12 or or 24, we put that number in and then the, the following year we just kind of check in. We like. Hey, we had to like reach into our pocket a little bit more because mickey mouse is super expensive or or not typically for things like that We’re continuing to push the envelope in terms of what we are saving Um, so having those sinking funds, um, and sometimes we’ll have to you know, they’re not necessarily Um emergencies, but we’ll have maybe we’ll move some money around in our sinking funds that that makes sense So that’s kind of what we do.

I think a lot of um clients They do some version of that in, especially the hybrid clients where it’s mainly like we have separate accounts and we put X amount of dollars in and that’s how we spend our bills. But I think there’s, there’s levels to this in terms of like what’s comfortable. Again, like I feel like if I had my druthers, like I would just have everything joint kind of like you and Jess, but you know, again, it’s a, it’s a little bit different dynamic I think in terms of where we come, where we come from.

Tim Ulbrich: [00:36:00] Yeah. Yeah. And I want to make sure I recap to understand and so our audience can understand as well. So you guys have. Uh, paychecks coming to individual accounts, then you fund through Shea’s kind of monthly process and tracking. You fund the joint account. Um, Shea’s kind of boots on the ground month to month tracking.

What do we need to be doing short term? And then together you’re working on some of the prioritization of the goals. And then you’re pushing some of the conversation of, of the long term. Am I tracking? Okay, cool. And there’s something there that you said, I want to make sure we don’t brush by that is so important where I see a lot of stress and anxiety and frustration and arguments coming in is in the absence of understanding what those goals are long term, short term midterm, and whether or not we’re on track to achieve those.

That to me becomes a space where things get dynamic to say the least. Right. Because, you know, when you talk about like, Hey, we’re, we’re going to see Mickey mouse and we’re, we’re [00:37:00] planning for a, B or C and we’ve got a bucket and it’s the Mickey mouse bucket and we’re planning for it or longer term things like retirement or, and days gone by, you guys were buying the RV, right?

Whatever are those shared goals, if you know what they are and whether or not you’re on track or a progress for them, to me, that just alleviates so much. Of the financial stress and pressure that can come, uh, it’s in the absence of knowing that where I think that uncertainty causes the anxiety and the feelings of, of overwhelmed.

That can be the divide to getting on the same page.

Tim Baker: Yeah, like I always joke around that You know Shea is definitely more of and again, like I think culturally like the idea of saving for retirement is very foreigner because in brazil You kind of just work and then you have a pension like it’s very different. So Like trying to get her on board with that has been harder.

And again, she looks at our young family and she knows that the time is now to really, um, [00:38:00] enjoy them and, and, and the experiences. And, you know, I, I keep joking around with her because I’m like, one day, you’re going to get to a certain age where you can start to see retirement. And you’re going to say, Oh, like Tim, you’re so wise.

For, you know, basically, you know, getting me to put, you know, max out my 401k or

Tim Ulbrich: Words that will not come out of Shea’s

Tim Baker: it will never come out of her mouth, but she will eventually wake up one day and might think that, you know, so, um, so, but I, but I take solace in the fact that, again, knowing the plan and knowing, like, Most people you ask, like, are you on track for retirement?

They’re like, I don’t know. Like I, there’s a calculator when I sign into my 401k that tells me, which I, which I think is very like irresponsible if I can throw that out there because like. You know, Shay, like going through, I’m sharing all the, like the emotional conversations that, but like Zoe, our youngest is 10 months old and she just started going to daycare.

We [00:39:00] had a, um, a live in nanny, an au pair. And if you finally got to the point where we did this, this didn’t work out. So we’ve gone through this emotional thing of like transitioning Zoe to the. Um, to daycare, and that invites an extra expense and, um, sickness and all the, all this stuff, right? And, um, and the emotional sides of that, and, you know, Shay will exasperate it through this process.

Like, oh, I wish I could just stay home and, like, just be with my baby. And I’m like, well, you can. It just means that we have to, like, make changes. Like, we have to tighten the belt a lot. And, um, It’s the same thing with retirement. Like, like you can, a lot of us, if we’re living off of beans and rice and our living expenses are low, like you can retire.

Right. It’s just maybe not a like the lifestyle that you are. But I think like, I know that we are like, I know being more of the longterm planner, like that we’re doing well. Right. And that’s not to say it’s always going to [00:40:00] be like that because things come in cycles and, you know, jobs changes and things like that.

But where we’re at and what we’re doing. Yeah. Yeah. I feel really comfortable. And to be honest, like the rest of it, it really doesn’t matter where it goes. Like we want to, we have the same values that we want to spend it on our family or right now it’s on our house. Um, so like I don’t, I don’t think twice about that because I really, I trust in the plan.

You know, I trust the process to, um, take that adage. And if I didn’t though. You know, it’s the same thing we talk about like student loans or retirement plan and like, unless you have the math, like you have, you have emotions related to money, but unless you have the math to confirm or deny that you’re kind of flying blind.

Right? So like, I have the math and I know that what we’re doing is, is going to set us up for the future. So I don’t care if we spend money, even though that’s not necessarily my money personality. I don’t care if we spend money today. Um, yeah. So I think, [00:41:00] again, it goes back to having a plan and plan in because things consistently change.

And if you don’t have that, and I think again, a lot of, of tension and, and disagreement and, you know, and I, and I think having, I think having these discussions one on one, but I think having them with an objective third party that knows your balance sheet and knows your goals is very, very powerful. And sometimes.

I can, I can say something to Shay, like, why are you like this? Or why do you think this way? Um, and I’m asking the wrong accusatory question or says somebody that is a professional can, and, you know, they can ask some more neutral sounding questions to kind of get to. How does she think about money versus how do I think about money in a non judgmental way?

And again, that goes back to like, a lot of us don’t have the vocabulary or know what questions to ask because we just, we’re not raised like that and we just don’t, don’t know.

Tim Ulbrich: Let’s talk more about that in the value of a third part. I think we’re dancing around it, [00:42:00] but you’re getting, you’re giving a really good example. Um, you know, when we talk about something like nest egg and retirement and I, and if Jess were here, I think she would say as much that for her, like there’s the numbers in the Excel sheet and then there’s the reality of the feelings.

Right. And when retirement is a question mark is an unknown is a, I never think there’s going to be enough. That very much informs how we feel today and how we act, whether or not that’s based on reality. And so I think this is one example where having a third party involved can not only take us jointly through an exercise.

You know, versus me punching in numbers and saying, Hey, look at the sheet. Look at the sheet, look at the sheet. Like let’s walk through this together and challenge the assumptions, but then also include the emotional piece of, Hey, like I recognize that this says we’re on track and perhaps we’re even over saving, which is a conversation we’ve talked about before on the show.

All the while we’re feeling the pressure [00:43:00] today of, Hey, I wish there was some more cash around to experience the things that we want to experience with the boys, well, maybe there could be. Right. Because of what we’re, we’re doing for the future. So to me, that’s just one, one example. And if you want to pay back off that, or otherwise where you’ve seen having a third party, of course, we’re biased in what we do in the planning where it can be so valuable and helping partners work together.

Tim Baker: Yeah, we just signed on a new client recently that, you know, she’s podcast forever and, you

Tim Ulbrich: Shout out.

Tim Baker: Yeah, much, much love for the support. And the big reason that she came, she finally booked an appointment with us was because she just recently found out that her grandparents are gonna be leaving a pretty sizable amount of money to, um, her parents.

And she’s kind of, and she’s, she’s kind of taking advice from like the family. It’s like, save, save, save, like max out your retirement. And they’re feeling the tightness in like the, the day to day of having young kids and a [00:44:00] family and things like that. And she’s like, for what? Like, so that I can pass on millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars to like, what’s the, like, why?

Like, I don’t want to repeat that. Like I want. That balance of I want to live a wealthy life today And she kind of called you out of like that’s kind of what you say live a wealthy life today a wealthy life tomorrow Um, like there’s balance there. So if you’re always just living a wealthy life tomorrow, what’s the freaking point?

Right? What’s the point of? Of taking on this debt or earning this income or or or having a family like you want to make sure that That you know, you got one crack at this and I think for her it was like i’m i’m maxing everything else out and if I told Like if if I if I were to whisper like i’m not going to do this anymore like her family would think she’s crazy I’m like, well, they don’t know you, right?

They don’t know like the, like, it’s just like, oh, like, you know, I should pay off my student loans as quick as possible, or I should invest like this. It’s kind of that water cooler. I should, I should, you know, I should get, I should [00:45:00] claim Social Security this way, like that water cooler, like that. They don’t know your balance sheet.

They don’t know your goals. They’re trying to help you as best they can, but like, that’s not advice. So, and we’ve had clients that have done those things that I’m like, well, maybe we don’t need to do that anymore or right now, right? Maybe when we, when we build a plan, we see that there’s room there for you to take care of Tim and Jess in 2025 and maybe not so much Tim and Jess in 2065.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah.

Tim Baker: And that’s okay, right? Um, but I think, I think sometimes having these conversations, whether they’re the discovery meetings to see if, if like we’re a good fit for, from a, from a planner to a client perspective, or when I used to do what the planning team does a lot better than what I did, like the scripter plan meetings, where there’s a lot of emotion there in both of those meetings, probably more so in the scripter plan where we’re talking about, you know, asking very pointed questions about like, like what are, what are the things that matter to you most?

And I remember those. [00:46:00] Meetings, there was tears, there was kind of the, the one partner like crane in their neck at their other partner, because they’re saying something, they had no idea that they felt, or it was a passion of theirs. Um, and I think that goes back to just not having the vocabulary or sometimes I always talk, I always tell the story of when I got out of the army, I was working in a where I was working.

Uh, I worked for Sears Kmart. They had just merged. We’re like, we’re going to buy for retail supremacy. And I was like, yeah, exactly. I was like, yeah, we’re going to beat Amazon and Walmart and all that. So it’s hilarious now, but I had a great interview with them and it was kind of more operational leadership than what I was experiencing in the army.

And, um, and it was, it was long hours. So I would, I would get up, I would leave my house at five o’clock and I would get there at five 30. Um, and then I would stay until probably six, six 30 drive the 30 minutes home and it was dark both ways, but I don’t ever remember most days. I don’t ever remember the [00:47:00] drive.

It was just like I was on autopilot when I got into my car and then when I, you know, basically part and I think a lot of the times that’s our life because we get so freaking busy, Tim, that we don’t slow down and actually like. Like reflect or ask ourselves these questions and again that goes back if we go back to like the third party And again, i’m biased Like if we’re meeting with you regularly, even if it’s just annually or semi annually Um, obviously we do a lot of work on the front end of a plan But even if we’re just taking the time twice a year To kind of check in and actually view that dashboard and not just stare out the windshield for 30 minutes, you know, on your commute to and from, I think that that action, um, and doing that with a partner to kind of tie it back to Valentine’s day is really, really powerful.

And I think just because of the hustle and bustle and the distractions that we have, um, with technology or whatever else, it’s hard for [00:48:00] us to kind of slow down and say, like, is this really what I want? Shay, is this really what you want? And I think like, you know, one of the things that Shay and I like to do when, so we do like a monthly date night, and then we kind of do ad hoc stuff, but like, we’ll talk about, it’s more of like dreams.

Like, like what, where do we want to go next? Right? So one of the exercises that we’ve done is, you know, we’ll put, I’ll make a list of all like the projects or things that I want to do. So whether it’s buy an RV or redo the kitchen or you know, redo our backyard. So we kind of have this list. And we both basically rank order the list in order, you know, basically what we want the most.

And then I basically combined that in a weighted, a weighted ranking. And then we talk about that and that’s kind

Tim Ulbrich: come up with a shared list first or do you have your own list? And then,

Tim Baker: we come up with a shared list that we’re both basically ranking. And then what’s come, what, what, some of the things that have come out of that. Where, you know, one of the things since we moved [00:49:00] into our house in 2020, she’s like, I hate this chandelier in the, in the front of the house.

And, and I’m just, and I, I could not care less about it, Tim. I, it’s not something that I even noticed, but she’s like, I hate it. It’s like this crystal thing. It’s gets dusty and cobwebby. Like, I don’t like

Tim Ulbrich: get it done and

Tim Baker: And I’m like, well, what is it, what would it cost us just to kind of get a new fixture and replace?

She’s like 1500 bucks. I’m like, why are we even wasting any more? And that, that’s probably not the way, the right way to ask it. Cause that sounds accusatory, but I’m like, what, well, what can we do just to make this go away, like, you know, so, so those kind of get knocked off, but then some of the major projects, like, Hey, we’re redoing our backyard.

Like we both put that at the top of the, uh, top of the list. And like, that’s what we’re attacking next. Right. So then the next one, you know, we’ll attack next, or we maybe we’ll, we’ll do the, the, the ranking again. But I think like, those are more of like the exciting, like nobody wants to talk about, well, some people do, but like.

Like paying off debt is like, nah, like it can kind of be a drag. Um, or some of these other more mundane parts of the financial plan. I [00:50:00] think, you know, aligning things that, and for us it’s like, you know, having a green space that we really want and is invited in that, you know, we see our family, you know, just enjoying was really important.

And we’re not going to move because of, you know, where the market is, the interest rates, like we’re going to put the money in the house that we have. And I think we’re excited about that. So like, those are some of the discussions that we have. And I think, you know, what you do is then you then plug that into a financial planner, um, and you say, okay, like, how can we make this happen?

Where are we, where are we pulling this money from? How long is it going to take for us to save? Do we use debt? Do we leverage, what does that look like? So.

Tim Ulbrich: Tim, one thing you said that is so important and Jess and I experienced this working with you and the rest of the planning team. You said, is this what we want? And a question that we have to come back to. And one of the things I love about our process, you know, step one, as we get organized, we really can’t do anything else until we have a good record and system of, you know, where’s everything at?

What’s the balance sheet? And do we have eyes on everything [00:51:00] that’s out there? Step two, how What’s the vision? We call it script your plan and, and once we set that vision, which I will go on record by saying, most financial planning firms and financial planners are making financial decisions without a vision.

And that is backwards. The

Tim Baker: even without like a balance sheet, 

Tim Ulbrich: without a balance sheet.

Tim Baker: you have a pulse. Let me sell you this insurance product that you don’t need. Yeah.

Tim Ulbrich: And the vision, I always describe it, the vision should be the window in which you’re looking through. And the other side is any financial decision you’re making, how are we gonna handle, you know, the debt? What are we looking at in terms of investing and saying for the future?

Should we buy this investment property? What about this vacation? What about that? Right. And that shared vision, which you talked about is so important in terms of two people working together. But once we set that vision, you know, this is not the strategic plan at your workplace where it sits on the shelf and becomes dusty.

Like this comes back in the meetings to say, Hey, Tim and Jess in 2023 or whatever it was last time we did this, you guys said that tangibly, these were [00:52:00] the things that meant. You were living your rich life with your family. Have we done them? Have

Tim Baker: Yeah. You hold the mirror up, right?

Tim Ulbrich: hold the mirror up. And when we think about how we measure the ROI, right?

Of the financial plan. I know, I know a topic you’re passionate about. Sure. There are X’s and O’s that we want to look at. We’re spending so much investing of time and money working with the financial planner and what’s the potential return on that if we didn’t have that relationship. Yes. Let’s have that conversation, but what is it worth?

To say, this is the vision for rich life. And we’re actually going to make this happen and tracking whether or not we’re achieving that. Like we all know when we look back in 30 or 40 years, that is going to be what matters, not did we get our nest egg to 3. 9 versus 3. 6 million. So that vision and having someone that can facilitate the conversations to get to that vision, and then to hold that mirror back up and say, how are we doing?

Right. How are we progressing?

Tim Baker: and, and, and I think it could be a little bit of tough love, you know, a little bit of the [00:53:00] stick of like, Hey, you know, and if I’m talking to myself here, it’s like, Hey, Tim, like nowhere in your script, your plan meeting, your goal session, did you say that you had to lead the league in like bourbon purchases?

If that’s important, then like that should be in the financial planning and we should, we should, you know, we should account for that. But if it’s not, then like, what are we doing? You know, I know people can relate to like shop therapy and things like that. You know, that some of the things that goes on there, but like most of the time people are like, Oh, I have to have like, I don’t have to have these things, but that’s what we typically spend is empty calories.

That’s what we spend our. Our dollars on. It’s more of the and I’ll, I’ll shout out one of our clients. It’s been working with us probably since 2018. Um, I talked to each other yesterday. Like one of the big things to, to major things, um, that we’ve worked on so she good amount of credit card debt. Large amounts of student loans didn’t necessarily love her her job when she was working with us initially.

Um, You know, she w what was uncovered in her script or plan when [00:54:00] she had this passion for horseback riding

Tim Ulbrich: mm

Tim Baker: you have to do this. Like, this is obviously a passion. When you talk about it, you, you’re glowing. And she’s like, oh, but like credit card debt and I have to work more. And, and my student loans and you know, you, you fast forward today, you know, she has, the loans are forgiven.

She’s left that hospital system. She’s working in industry now. She loves their job, a flexibility, better money. Um credit cards are gone She has pickles the horse She she moved from one part of florida to another to be closer to like the national questioning center So like so like that was the big and then that was the big things and then when I talked to her yesterday And you know, her, her other big thing was she wanted to do an African safari with her mom when she booked September, early September, right?

She’s doing it. And she was one of these people where I was talking about like seven figure pharmacist. She’s like, yeah, right, Tim. Like that, that’s, that’s made up, but we looked at her portfolio again. This is not [00:55:00] indicative of like future performance, but her IRAs that were managing grew a hundred thousand dollars year over year.

And she’s like, Oh. Okay. Like I’m now I’m starting to get it, but like super pumped up about like these trips and like the passion and things like that. So like we talk about ROI, like we can see her net worth and her investments growing. Like that’s, that’s, that’s. That’s happened. But if you were to say like, what are maybe some of the things that are better about the life plan that we’ve built out, that’s financial, that’s supported by the financial plan or these passions of like this once in a lifetime trip, the fact that she’s, you know, making it happen with her, you know, with, with showing horseback riding and things like that.

So, and, and again, like, I think this. Can be harder with two, like, with two people to go back to the couples. Right. And you know, I think the way that Shay, I Shay and I do it in terms of rank ordering and, and, and talking through things like that. I think the help of a financial planner goes a long, long way because there’s different dynamics in [00:56:00] different couples.

You know, there’s some people that are a bulldozer, some people that you know, are more timid. And I think bringing. To light both both partners contributions and viewpoints and what their passion are is that’s, that’s what’s going to like save the financial planning profession from the robots, it’s those types of engagements and that type of care and about about our clients and what we’re doing.

It’s not. Some of these other things, right? Like, like invest in or whatever, those things are going to eventually be, you know, everything’s going to be by robots. But, um, I think it’s important again, it’s, it’s really hard to do this by yourself. It’s even harder to do it, you know, with a partner that has a different, you know, value structure.

And I think making sure that you’re rowing that. Boat in the same direction is, is vital. Or you, you know, you get, it’s passive aggressive or, you know, you, you bury, you bury things down deep and, um, you know, you, you hold onto them and [00:57:00] it’s not productive either.

Tim Ulbrich: Tim, perhaps obvious, but I’d like to wrap up here. And I think it needs to be said, knowing that many of our listeners might be the nerd and their relationship, right? Um, and if one person is taking the lead and if that’s you, which is very common that you might have one person kind of take the lead, it’s critical that the other person, the other party is informed, right?

Delegation does not equal uninformed. And I think this is where something like a third party, Um, can be a really valuable asset. This is where making sure you have periodic meetings. You talked about that earlier in the show, making sure you’ve got good systems and documents like legacy folders. We’ve talked about that on the show before.

And it reminds me back to an episode four years ago, we’ll link it, link to this episode in the show notes. One, I often referenced back to with Michelle Cooper, who wrote a book. I’ve still got me a widow’s journey to love happiness and financial independence. And during the show, she shared her personal story.

Of after losing her husband [00:58:00] to suicide and realizing shortly after his death that despite herself being an attorney And working in the financial industry for years She was out of the loop of their family finances and was left to navigate everything while also grieving the loss of her husband And you know again if one person’s taking the lead and that function works great.

But what are the systems? What’s the third party solution? What are the conversations that need to be happening to make sure that both people are are informed in that process?

Tim Baker: yeah. So important, Tim, and, and like I said, you know, I think, I think the best results are when you have two engaged parties most of the time. Um, that more or less take, take our advice. I mean, we do use tools that. Can keep maybe an absent partner or a spotty partner up to speed whether that’s emails or Recap emails or things like that, but I think the goal here just ultimately You know when you’re working as a couple on your money You want to the goal is to win most of the time and I think you know You’re never gonna be perfect.

Some people, you know, will will have bad [00:59:00] months or make bad decisions and and they feel despondent but you know, I think I think it’s really exciting and, and can be very relieving, you know, especially when you have the plan in place to know like, Hey, we’re okay. So we can maybe do things that are outside of the comfort zone, whether it’s saving or spending.

Um, whatever spectrum you fall on. And again, obviously we’re super biased because we believe in what we do. And we’ve seen, you know, great results from a lot of our clients. Um, but you know, it’s something that again, we just don’t do well because we, it’s not something we have the vocabulary for. So I love, I appreciate the topic.

Um, and, and like, like we mentioned at the top, like it’s not a one size fit all like, like there, there’s a lot of ways to kind of a tackle the financial plan and how your, your finances are set up. And I think it’s trying to, it’s the same thing with the budget, trying to find what works best for you. Um, and running with that and then kind of iterating [01:00:00] and making sure that, you know, you feel that all parties are kind of represented and feel good about it.

Tim Ulbrich: Let me end him by putting a plugin for our services. Cause I think our team just does this incredibly well. Shout out to our team of certified financial planners. If you’re listening, thinking, Hey, I’d like to learn more about what it would look like in working. With one of YFP’s fee only certified financial planners, whether you’re single, engaged, married, partner, we’d love to have that conversation.

You go to yourfinancialpharmacist. com. You’ll see an option there to book a discovery call. Uh, Tim leads those discovery calls, opportunity for us to learn more about your situation, uh, learn more about our services and ultimately determine, You know, whether or not there’s a good fit there, we’d like love to have that conversation.

And I think that, you know, we look at our process and our system, as I talked about briefly in terms of making sure we have everything organized, scripting that plan, setting the vision. Uh, we, we just do this effectively. And I think that not only are we trying to move the net worth forward, that’s an important part, but we’re also looking at, you know, beyond the numbers, what does it look like to be living a [01:01:00] rich life and how do we get clear on that?

And how do we develop a financial plan that could support. Living that rich life. So Tim really, really enjoyed the conversation and, uh, we’ll, we’ll catch everyone back here next week. Take care. 

[END]

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