January 2024 – Your Financial Pharmacist

YFP 343: Getting Ready for Tax Season with Sean Richards, CPA

Posted on by YFP Media

Tim Ulbrich and Sean Richards, CPA, discuss the tax preparations listeners should be considering ahead of the 2023 filing.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Tim Ulbrich and Director of YFP Tax, Sean Richards, CPA, discuss the tax preparations listeners should be considering ahead of tax season and the 2023 filing. Whether you DIY your taxes or work with a professional, there are documents that need to be on hand to file your taxes. Sean shares essential tax moves for the year, emphasizing the significance of being proactive for the 2024 tax season. Sean also discusses the value of a year-round approach to taxes and the in-house services by episode sponsor, YFP Tax, showcasing the value of personalized, holistic tax planning.

About Today’s Guests

Sean Richards, CPA, received his undergraduate degree in Corporate Finance and Accounting, as well as his Master of Accountancy, from Bentley University in Waltham, MA. Sean has been a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) since 2015 and is currently pursuing his Enrolled Agent certification. Prior to joining the YFP team, Sean was the Senior Treasury Manager at PRA Group, a global debt buyer based in Norfolk, VA. He began his career at American Tower Corporation where, over 10 years, he held several positions in audit, treasury and accounting. As the Director of YFP Tax, Sean focuses on broadening the company’s existing tax planning and preparation operations, as well as developing and launching new accounting offerings, including bookkeeping, payroll, and fractional CFO services.

Key Points from the Episode

Tax preparation for 2023 with a CPA. [0:00]
Tax moves for 2023 and preparation for 2024. [1:11]
Tax planning and preparation strategies for individuals and businesses. [8:56]
Tax season preparation and changes. [13:59]
Tax planning and goal setting for next year. [16:56]
Comprehensive tax planning and year-round approach to taxes. [22:25]
Year-round tax planning and personalized service. [27:24]

Episode Highlights

“And the big thing I’ll say about extensions is that the one of the things I’ve been noticing over the past few years is that there’s just this stigma about extensions, and how you know, a lot of people have never done it before. And it seems like it’s only something you can do if your situation is complicated. And it’s only something you can do if you are working with a professional and they need to do all the work for you and everything. But really extensions just give you and give your preparer more time to get things figured out, make sure that you are taking advantage of all your deductions and credits and everything.” – Sean Richards, CPA

“As Tim Baker would say, when it comes to extensions, right over rushed right over rush, right.” – Tim Ulbrich

“Yeah, I would be, you know, thinking about your own kind of general financial goals and then try to think about as you’re going through this whole tax filing process, how does your tax situation align with those goals?” – Sean Richards, CPA

“With comprehensive tax planning, is just looking at your taxes kind of throughout the course of the year like I’ve been alluding to throughout this whole conversation. And one big thing there is will be kind of what you were just saying that filing taxes. It’s not always really the finish line and might also be the starting point for somebody else.” – Sean Richards, CPA

“But with holistic plan, you have your tax return that you start with whatever is etched in stone sent to the government. And then from there, you’re able to sort of do whatever with testing out different types of scenarios and projections and looking at, hey, let’s take a look at our paychecks year to date, let’s see where are withholdings are at, let’s see what we expect our side income to be and our rental income. And oh, we’re going to have a kid this year congrats and, oh, we’re buying a house, let’s see how all these things play into our tax situation in the middle of the year.” – Sean Richards, CPA

“So there’s just so many different opportunities to, you know, maximize your efficiencies with your taxes, you know, take advantage of all the things that are out there. And if you don’t have a year round kind of approach to it, and you’re not looking at it in a cyclical kind of way, you’ll miss those things, you’ll come to filing, and you’ll be kicking yourself saying, let’s do it better this year, let’s do it better this year.” – Sean Richards, CPA

“So the name of the game with those is energies. Definitely still the big biggest thing. Energy efficiency, green initiatives. So people typically immediately think of EVs. I mean, that’s that’s a great example. And that’s one where the credits are sort of just getting better every year, there’s, more available to you” -Sean Richards, CPA

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

Tim Ulbrich 00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week YFP Director of Tax and CPA Sean Richards joins the show to discuss getting ready for the 2023 taxes. Yes, it’s that time of year tax season is officially upon us. And you probably started to receive various tax forms in the mail that are piling up if you haven’t already done so now is the perfect time to switch gears and start getting ready for the 2023 taxes. If you aren’t sure where to start, we’ve got you covered with a free checklist to help you along the way. In this free checklist we cover three final tax moves that you can make for the 2023 tax year, four ways to start prepping for tax season, and three key items that you can be doing now to plan ahead for this tax year and beyond. If you’re ready to take action and set the stage for a successful 2023 taxes, you can download this free checklist at yourfinancialpharmacist.com/taxchecklist. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/taxchecklist.

Tim Ulbrich 01:09

Sean, welcome back to the show.

Sean Richards 01:10

Thanks. Thanks for having me. And thanks for allowing me the chance to get on here before I disappeared. And hopefully I can spread some knowledge to folks again before I kind of go into my hole for the for the spring and start getting into the fun stuff that I live for.

Tim Ulbrich 01:26

Tis the season, hard to believe here we are and end of January thinking ahead to tax season. And we’re really excited about the work that you and the tax team are doing. We’ll get into that as we get towards the end of the episode. But we want to use this time of the year really as an opportunity to make sure that our community, our listeners are focused as early as they can on getting prepared for the tax season, whether they’re hiring a pro, like YFP tax, whether this is a DIY type of solution. You know, this is the season where we start to see those forms showing up in the mail, we put them aside on the desk. And then we want to do everything that we can to get ready. So we’re going to talk about in this episode, Sean, some some final tax moves that folks can make here. Even though we’re in 2024. We’re doing the 2023 filings. So some final moves that they can make. We’ll talk about getting ready for the tax season, how they can be prepared to make sure that the filing goes as smooth as possible. And then we’re to start the conversation about – as we’ve highlighted many times before on the show – we want to be as proactive as possible. So how can we be thinking ahead to the 2024 tax filing here in the beginning of the year, again with that proactive strategic approach. So before we jump into the meat of each of those sections of the podcast, Sean, just remind us of the deadlines. I think folks are probably familiar overall. But you know, we see more people in our community extending. So I think it’s worth talking about that as well. What are the deadlines that folks need to be thinking about this time of year as it relates to tax?

Sean Richards 03:01

Yeah, I mean, the big deadline that people typically are familiar with his tax day, and that’s usually April 15, which is this year, sometimes it falls on holidays, or, in fact, sometimes I’m from Massachusetts, and it often falls on a Massachusetts specific holiday. So we get a little bit of an extra push there that other states didn’t get but not not afforded to that anymore. But that mid-April date is typically the the regular sort of Tax Day date for regular individual filers, assuming that there’s no extension that’s filed. And the big thing I’ll say about extensions is that the one of the things I’ve been noticing over the past few years is that there’s just this stigma about extensions, and how you know, a lot of people have never done it before. And it seems like it’s only something you can do if your situation is complicated. And it’s only something you can do if you are working with a professional and they need to do all the work for you and everything. But really extensions just give you and give your preparer more time to get things figured out, make sure that you are taking advantage of all your deductions and credits and everything. And that bumps your regular tax deadline from April all the way to October. It’s six months. And it’s a guaranteed thing, basically. I mean, almost every state falls the Fed. And if you do the extension with the Fed, it’s guaranteed as long as you make a payment against any, you know, expected bills you’re gonna have. It’s just it’s worth doing. We do it for all of our clients proactively. That’s something we’ve been rolling out over the past couple years is just getting ahead of that, get it filed. And that way you don’t have to worry about it. You know, you can take your time figuring out if you think you’re going to owe any money, make an estimated payment, and then spend however much time you need to just dot all the i’s and cross the T’s and get everything figured out. You know, it’s what we see a lot of folks doing nowadays, it’s the way the industry is heading. So those are the two big individual deadlines. And if you’re a business owner and you actually have to file a business return, basically shift that up a month. Yeah. On March 15, and September, if you extend out.

Tim Ulbrich 05:03

As Tim Baker would say, when it comes to extensions, right over rushed. Right over rush, right. So I think when we look at tax season, you know, there’s a lot of work crammed in a short period of time, and we want to make sure that we’re doing it right. And that we’re, you know, optimizing the tax situation the best that we can. So let’s jump into the first section, first part of our discussion, which is some final 2023 tax moves that our listeners could make may or may not make sense, obviously, depending on their individual plan. So Sean, even though we’re in 2024, calendar year, there are some actions that can still be taken for the 2023 tax season. What are those key ones that our listeners should be thinking about?

Sean Richards 05:47

Yeah, and it’s one of those things that you always want to try to be doing things in the calendar year if you possibly can. But there are things that you aren’t going to be able to do by the end of the year. You know, some of these things with retirement contributions and stuff, you’re gonna want to know what your AGI is, or what you expect it to be. Or you might have to find out kind of what kind of cash flow you have available for yourself to make some of these different types of contributions and things. But right, so the IRS actually does allow some actions to be done after the tax season, when typically, if you’re a cash basis, taxpayer, it’s sort of whenever you get that cash, that’s the year that it happens. And so the big ones are retirement contributions, IRAs, specifically, those go out to your your regular deadline. So typically, it’s going to be April 15. For folks, the one I’ll mention there is that aside, for some exceptions, with some solo plans, 401K’s that’s typically a year end kind of thing. So if you didn’t max out on that, you probably don’t have much of an opportunity there. But again, you do have the opportunity to contribute to an IRA. So that’s something to look into. And I mentioned a solo 401K, but if you’re doing anything like that, or a sep IRA, those actually can be extended out if you have an extension. So another reason to file that extension, by yourself six more months to figure out where you’re gonna land, what kind of cash you have available to make a contribution towards something like that. And then the other big one is HSAs, very similar IRAs, it’s it goes to your your April deadline. So if you didn’t hit your max, or if your company contributed, but you still have some room to hit the max there, definitely tried to hit that that the HSA, I say it all the time, but it’s one of the few things that has the triple tax benefit of tax free contributions, tax free distributions, and tax free growth. So big one there. And then the other one is it. So it’s a little bit more, I don’t want to say complicated, but it’s, you know, not typically something that folks that are just having a regular kind of basic W2 job experience. But I was alluding to it before when I mentioned extensions, and that’s making estimated tax payments. So if you’re on a quarterly cadence where you know, your withholdings aren’t covering off on your tax bill, at the end of the year, whether you have side gigs, or it’s by design, you should be making estimated payments, those actually would have been due on the 15th of January. So hopefully, if anybody’s listening in, they’re supposed to make q4 payments and didn’t this will be a little reminder to go do that. But the other thing to keep in mind there is that even if you’re not making estimated payments, if you’re expected to have a balance due in April, you’ll want to make a payment against that before that date. So even if you do extend out, you know, get a rough number, do the math say hey, I think I’m going to owe approximately $1,000 make that payment now or any time between now and April. And then like I said, take the time, get your return figured out maybe that 1000 becomes 800. And you get to 200 of it back or, you know, you just buys you that time to really get things figured out. But you have the ability to make payments early anytime now for the 2023 season.

Tim Ulbrich 08:56

Yeah, and I think it’s really important. You know, for those that have been at this for a while they’re they’re probably well plugged into, hey, I can make IRA contributions after the first of the year, right before the deadline. I can make HSA contributions, but especially for, you know, our listeners that are relatively new at filing their own taxes or working with someone they may think which would be common sense that hey, calendar year is over. Therefore, opportunity’s gone. And as you’ve highlighted, that simply isn’t the case. And Sean, I also want to put a plug in when it comes to estimated tax payments -you mentioned this being a little bit more nuanced – and I think especially for those that have some more complicated tax situations, we’ll come back to this at the end. You can feel overwhelming in terms of you know, how do I determine that what’s the amount am I doing that correctly? What what changes are happening? And so I think this is a spot we’re really working with. Someone can be really valuable to feel comfortable and confident that you’re making those estimated tax payments. Yeah, in the correct way.

Sean Richards 09:50

We send out reminders to everybody that’s on that cadence and it might as well just be a reminder back to me because you know, all of our clients basically just say, I pay But we have the tools to go in and just you know, we have that number already figured out ahead of time. Usually it’s a little back and forth of hey, yeah, everything’s still the same, business still doing the same, you know, any changes on things, and we update our projections and get those numbers. But yeah, if you ever if you expect a big tax bill, or really have any kind of income, that you don’t have withholding for, that’s something you really should be thinking about. And if not working with a professional, at least having a plan to know what that number is going to be for yourself.

Tim Ulbrich 10:26

I get that email too from you, Sean. And then I say, hey, Sean, well, why don’t What is that supposed to be? So….

Sean Richards 10:31

I always push back a little bit to Hey, Tim, tell me about this.

Tim Ulbrich 10:34

Yeah, that’s right.

Sean Richards 10:35

He’s telling me to go check the books, so we go back and forth.

Tim Ulbrich 10:39

Awesome. So that’s the first part we want to talk about is making sure that we use this window of time right to make any of these 2023 tax moves before we file. The second part is getting ready preparing for the 2023 tax season. So Sean, we preach and teach proactive tax planning. And we’ll talk about that here shortly. Most of the focus this time of year is getting ready to file for the previous year. What are some things that our listeners can be doing should be doing to get organized, and be prepared for filing, whether they’re doing it themselves, or again, they’re hiring a tax professional.

Sean Richards 11:15

Yeah, whether you’re doing it yourself or hiring a tax professional, you’re gonna need to gather the documentation and either have it for yourself or give it to somebody. So that’s the big name of the game right now. So knowing when you’re going to get things, you know, a lot of that is you’re sort of at the mercy of whatever businesses you’re working with. So if it’s a bank, and you have interest income, there’ll be sending out 1099s. If you work for a company, and you get a paycheck, there’ll be sending W2s, the deadline for most of those is January 31. So folks are probably starting to get them in the mail now, if they have a little bit more proactive payroll companies. 1099, typically, they’re due on the 31st are most of them are and you’ll see those right around the 31st. Because those are a little harder to get out. But there’s other things that you can be gathering now to that may not actually have sort of deadlines that are going to be issued by a company, but things that you can pull together yourself. So if you have a rental property, you know, have you been taking income and expenses and have all that stuff figured out? Or if you work with a property management company? Do you know how you can go get that? Do you have a side business? Have you been tracking income and expenses there, you know, if you bought a house or sold a house this year, you’ll probably have the closing documentation and everything and that stuff that you’ll need or again, your accountant will need. So one good way to start is to just look at what you did last year and kind of figure hey, I needed all these things last year, I’ll probably need those again. And then think what did I had as a change this year? And you know, what could that possibly bring up? Having a system in place is great, you know, if you’re a client of ours, we have a tax questionnaire that I’m sure listeners are rolling their eyes saying, Oh, no, not again this year, though. I do promise it’s a lot prettier than it has been in the past. I’m really excited about some of the changes we’ve made there. But you know, it really guides folks through Hey, did you have this happen? Did you have this happen? Things that you might not think about. Hey, Oh, I did. I forgot I sold that stock in January of 2023. Right, of course. So just kind of understanding what situations you had in your tax life for the year, what forms may or may not be needed from that. And then when you’re going to be getting them and who you’re going to be getting them from. And sometimes it’s not even things that you’re going to be getting right now. Like I mentioned, if you have a business and your partner with that a business or an S corp or something, you might not get your K1 until September 15 when that extensions due. So there’s a lot of things for planning purposes, you know, if you know that you are a shareholder of a business, you’re going to want to file that extension now because there’s a good chance you’re not getting that until the summertime or something like that. So it’s a lot to think about. It might be overwhelming for folks. That’s why it’s you know, really good to have a system or work with a professional. But starting with last year is always a good place to start.

Tim Ulbrich 13:58

Yeah. And I found that to be really helpful. I use a combination of what you said. So I have a Google Drive, you know, folder for personal, for business, and I separate it by year. And then as those forms come in, you know, I’m scanning them, I’m dumping them into a folder just to kind of get them out of my mental space. And then exactly what he said, right, so I’m going through the tax questionnaire, which is super helpful to not only, you know, remind me of, okay, what were the forms last year that maybe I haven’t yet gotten or, you know, whatever, I need to look into that further. And then also asking those questions of are there new things that happen this year, and things that I need to be nudged and reminded of that might not have been represented in the documentation from the previous year? So I think a combination of the factors that you said, but that questionnaire I really like because that’s kind of the force point of are not only answering the questions, but then that’s the cue to upload all my tax forms and make sure that we have every documentation that’s needed, according to the questions that are being asked.

Sean Richards 14:59

Yeah, and like I said people are probably rolling their eyes. And I don’t mean that because the questionnaire itself is bad. It’s more that people are probably thinking, Oh, no, I have to gather those documents again. But unfortunately, everybody has to do that regardless. So you might as well have something that’s going to guide you through and remind you. It’s nice because like I said, our system is battle tested, we’ve had it for years now. You can put things in and save it and come back. So if you say, Ah, right, I forgot I had that transaction in January of 23. I mean, we’re already a year past that, when you’re filing, we might be a year and a half past. So it’s always good to have that little reminder to go back and get things.

Tim Ulbrich 15:36

As we’re talking about getting ready for the tax season. And the filing that’s coming up whether you know, that’s going to be the standard date or an extension. You know, the other thought I have here, Sean, is what new tax changes have been happening that folks, maybe or maybe not plugged into. And I feel like in years gone by, there’s been a lot more activity than than there was this past year. But talk us through some of the things that you’re seeing with our clients that our listeners might want to be tuned into.

Sean Richards 16:04

Yeah, I would say ’23 wasn’t the craziest year. I mean, it could just be with the election kind of coming up, maybe a lot of waves didn’t want to be made. But it also obviously comes down to Congress having to get things passed and making it through all of the checks and balances in the system. So we did have a lot of changes with the Inflation Reduction Act a couple of years ago that are kind of starting to roll out over the course of time. So I’d say that those were probably the biggest, year over year changes as far as actual real changes of like, Hey, this is a new creditor, this is a completely extended credit that used to, you know, phase out at $500. And now it’s 30%. with with no limits. So the name of the game with those is energies. Definitely still the big biggest thing. Energy efficiency, green initiatives. So people typically immediately think of EVs. I mean, that’s that’s a great example. And that’s one where the credits are sort of just getting better every year, there’s, more available to you. But even things that folks might not be thinking of. So if you had worked done on your house, there’s a pretty good chance that whatever you did was considered energy efficient by the powers that be and may qualify for at least some type of credit. So it’s worth at least thinking about, hey, I did this project, I replaced a window or I, you know, did some roof work or something like that, even just to ask the question of, Hey, can I get something for this? Worst case scenarios the answer is no. But you know, maybe next year or something. Aside from that, like I said, there weren’t a whole lot of crazy changes, there was a lot of increases across the board, just due to inflation with things like the standard deduction, and all of the kind of income brackets and everything. That’s not, you know, unusual, but it was a little bit more than it has been in the past, just given some of that inflation. And then there’s some new reporting requirements that know people are definitely getting fired up about. 1099k is a big one that gets thrown around a lot. So that’s with third party processors, if you work with like, Venmo, and things like that, and it scares people, because the question I get a lot is, hey, I, you know, send my dad 50 bucks every month for my cell phone bill, am I is he gonna get a 1099 at the end of the year for something like that? And the answer is probably not. The idea behind that is that third party payment providers, credit cards, Venmo, things like that are supposed to be identifying business transactions, because you know, you have that little button, you can click if you’re in Venmo, this is a business or purchase. And it gives you the insurance and everything, but it’s more intended for things like that. That’s not to say that you may get a 1099. Or it might come out of something like that, if you did give your family member $6,000 for something over the year. But that doesn’t also necessarily mean that it’s going to be income to that person. It’s just the company letting the government know, hey, this is the money that moved between these people. So a lot of things are getting thrown around. And you know, companies are trying to get people excited. So they’ll, you know, listen to their services and things like that. But I don’t want folks to be scared about these things. But definitely, you know, be inquisitive, ask your accountant, ask whoever you’re working with, hey, does this apply to me or you get something in the mail, ask them about it or you know, run it by somebody, don’t just say, Hey, I don’t think this applies to me. I’m not going to worry about it and deal with it later.

Tim Ulbrich 19:26

So thus far, Sean, everything we’ve talked about is really for the upcoming filing, again, whether that’s April or whether there’s an extension in October, so let’s shift gears to talk about thinking ahead to next year. So the 2024 tax filing. And again, even though we haven’t yet filed for 2023, we’re making decisions right now that are going to impact that filing. So we want to be thinking and planning as proactively as possible. And this is a great time of year to be doing it. So what are some of the areas, Sean, that folks should be thinking about here for next year’s filing in 2024.

Sean Richards 20:00

Yeah, I would be, you know, thinking about your own kind of general financial goals and then try to think about as you’re going through this whole tax filing process, how does your tax situation align with those goals? Or does it and if it doesn’t, should it and can we kind of shift it that way. So it could be something of, hey, I really want to pay off my student loans this year, that’s my my number one thing is that that’s what I want to do. So you might be more inclined to, you know, get more money in your paycheck in a particular year, in order to take that money and pay it against your debt, versus somebody who’s saying, hey, my number one goal by far is to lower my taxable income. And if that’s the case, you know, you don’t care about having your student loans paid off, or maybe you don’t have student loans, you just want your taxable income as low as possible. So we’re gonna max out 401K, we’re gonna max out HSAs or kind of, you know, do any of those types of things. So this is the time to really figure that out. Set goals for your tax situation that apply to your financial situation and overall strategy and also kind of come out of your tax return. Did you do your tax return and say, Oh, crap, I have a huge bill this year, I don’t, I don’t want that to happen. Or vice versa, oh, my goodness, I am getting a huge refund, I certainly could use that $1,000 a month back over the course of the year. This is the best time to identify those types of things and set those goals. And then from there, you can start to make changes, you can you know, if your goal is to not have a big tax bill at the end of the year, you can adjust your withholdings now and have 12 or 11 months of that to take effect. And by the end of the year, you’ll probably be in a good place. Or again, if you want to get more cash back to pay off your student loans, you can adjust your 401k or vice versa you want to lower your taxable income as much as absolutely possible, max out 401k. And now you have 11 months of that to go through. So it just a really good time to kind of get those goals set in place. Think about how you’re going to get there work with somebody who will build out a roadmap to get you there. And then just start checking in throughout the course of the year. It’s one of those things that once you file your taxes, I know everybody wants to say that they’re done. And it certainly is something you should celebrate. But it doesn’t mean that you should put it aside and not think of it till next year. Get those goals figured out now. And then, you know, constantly check in and make sure that you’re still on track.

Tim Ulbrich 22:25

Yeah, I like to think and we’ll talk about this with the services, we offer at YFP Tax. But I like to think about the filing is really the start line and not the finish line. Right. And, you know, as we talked about, in the very first section of this episode, there are some things that are calendar year deadlines, right? So we want to make sure that we’re taking advantage of those here in 2024. If it’s suitable for your plan, so that we’re not chasing it, you know, a year later, right, we’re able to really take advantage. And I think, as you mentioned, and highlighted well: it all starts with their goals. And this is why I’m so excited about the combination that we have of CFP and a CPA. When when you’re doing financial planning, and you’re doing that one on one and you have a CPA in your corner. That combination is really powerful as we can look across the financial planning and the strategy there, and then make sure we’re doing it in as tax efficient manner as possible. And just as a reminder, as I mentioned at the intro of the episode, we’ve got a checklist to kind of help guide you some of the things that we’ve been talking about, you can get a copy of that free checklist at your financialpharmacist.com/taxchecklist. And we’ll link to that, again in the show notes. Sean, let’s shift gears as we wrap up and talk about what we do at YFP Tax. Why we do it. By we I mean you! The philosophy, the philosophy, the philosophy behind this service and I think it’s it’s such a good thread to what we’ve been talking about. Yes, we’ve got work to do. We’ve got to file the IRS says we have to do but we also want to be thinking ahead and thinking proactively so we’re really excited. We’re now more than a year in of the shift we’ve made to offering comprehensive tax planning what we call CTP in-house. Tell our listeners, what is comprehensive tax planning and what does that offering look like at YFP Tax.

Sean Richards 24:16

Yeah, I’m excited too. It’s been you know about a year like you said of kind of having this as the flagship offering that we have on the tax side and it you know, I love where it where it’s been and where it is now and I love even more where we’re planning on taking it this year. But yeah, comprehensive tax planning, is just looking at your taxes kind of throughout the course of the year like I’ve been alluding to throughout this whole conversation. And one big thing there is will be kind of what you were just saying that filing taxes. It’s not always really the finish line and might also be the starting point for somebody else. It also is you know, could be the sort of middle of the year depending on what you have going on. Not everybody is on this exactly perfect cyclical cycle of hey Q1 of the year, which is this January, February, March, I’m going to be doing my full tax filings. And then mid year I’m going to be, you know, everybody, depending on what you have going on might be at different points in their individual tax cycle at any kind of point in the year. If you’re a business owner, you might not be filing your taxes until September, October. And then you know, you can’t be thinking about filing at this time of year when you’re going to be six months away from it. So comprehensive tax planning is really just having kind of a year round approach to your taxes and really catered to what you have going on. So again, where you’re at in the year, if it’s if it’s tax filing season, that’s what we’re focused on. If it’s more of that, you know, six months away from tax filing, we’re doing what we call tax projection. So we use a tool called holistic plan that we really use for our end to end tax process, which is amazing to have it all kind of in one place that we can carry over year after year. But with holistic plan, you have your tax return that you start with whatever is etched in stone sent to the government. And then from there, you’re able to sort of do whatever with testing out different types of scenarios and projections and looking at, hey, let’s take a look at our paychecks year to date, let’s see where are withholdings are at, let’s see what we expect our side income to be and our rental income. And oh, we’re going to have a kid this year congrats and, oh, we’re buying a house, let’s see how all these things play into our tax situation in the middle of the year. So we don’t come to whenever we file and say, Ooh, you know, I covered off on 75% of my stuff. But I kind of forgot about this whole other 25% here. So like I said, I love the projection process, I’m really excited to get into returns now and see exactly how accurate we were with them. And, you know, areas for improvement too. And not necessarily that we might have made mistakes or anything but looking at, hey, last year, we were really focused on the side income, but you know, you had more of an opportunity to be putting money toward your 401k and your W2 job that you had on the side there. So there’s just so many different opportunities to, you know, maximize your efficiencies with your taxes, you know, take advantage of all the things that are out there. And if you don’t have a year round kind of approach to it, and you’re not looking at it in a cyclical kind of way, you’ll miss those things, you’ll come to filing, and you’ll be kicking yourself saying, let’s do it better this year, let’s do it better this year.

Tim Ulbrich 27:24

I think he’s you articulated so well. We’ve really designed the service to match the philosophy we have right, which is tax is not one and done. It’s something we need to be thinking about throughout the year to really optimize this part of the financial plan the best that we can and I think the service does that incredibly well. And we do recognize Sean, that CTP comprehensive tax plan. We recognize that it’s not for everyone, right. So you know someone who is listening that, you know, is single, they’ve got one W two income, that withholdings are clean set correctly, there’s not a whole lot of changes, they probably aren’t in need at least yet. In terms of year round tax planning service. So with that in mind, who are you seeing with the clients that you’re working with YFP Tax that are getting the most value out of this year round service?

Sean Richards 28:11

I would say overall, you know, if you have a kind of a basic situation, that’s not typically the client that we’re seeing coming on and getting the most value out of it. That’s not to say that we don’t have plenty of people who want comprehensive tax planning, just to be able to say, hey, I don’t want to think about it. I just want someone’s hand on the wheel. And I want someone to take a look at my paycheck at the middle of the year and say, Hey, we’re still on track to have a $0 balance. And you know, we’re all good thumbs up and everything. There’s plenty of those. But I will say that the majority of folks are probably those who have slightly more of a complex tax situation or more of a complicated tax history or a little bit of both. So complicated tax history, think of things like big refunds or big bills, like I mentioned before, like, Oh, crap, you know, I’ve had a couple of years where I had big surprises that I wasn’t happy about, or I had that side gig and I completely forgot about that little thing called self employment tax, things like that. And then, you know, more complicated things. So real estate investors, tons of our clients have real estate, and there’s lots of opportunities to take advantage of tax laws there. And I don’t mean take advantage in in a shifty kind of way. There’s just so many different opportunities available to real estate investors out there. Folks with student loans, that’s obviously huge in the pharmacy space, stock purchase programs in restricted stock units. Another thing that’s huge in the pharmacy space, especially with our friends in the industry. So you know, those are definitely the biggest and then of course side hustlers and side gigs and stuff. But you know, I would definitely say that those are probably the biggest areas where we see people kind of proactively looking for that assistance. And like I said, just because your situation is uncomplicated doesn’t mean that you can’t benefit from having that year round look at it or if you anticipate it’s going to get more difficult getting ahead of that now, as opposed to, again, having that revisionist history and saying, Ooh, let’s hopefully not have that happen again, you know, to any extent you can get ahead of those things, it’s always a good thing in my mind.

Tim Ulbrich 30:14

Great stuff. And for those that want to learn more and determine, hey, is this a good fit for me, now is the time, right? So here in a little bit, we’re going to kind of shut down the doors and say, we’ve got to focus on really serving those clients well, so if you’re interested in learning more to determine, you know, for this year and beyond, can wifey tax add value to your tax situation, you can simply just go to YFPtax.com. From there, you’ll see an option to learn more and book a free discovery call that call will be with Tim Baker. And from there we can determine what the path is. That makes sense. And you know, Sean, just to be clear, you know, there are folks, as you mentioned, that might have some more straightforward situations, but want to know that someone has a hand on the wheel and want to know that they have someone in their corner year round, and that’s okay. But we aren’t and we’re not shy about it, we’re not trying to compete with big box solutions that are, you know, running commercials these days. 24/7 for, you know, free returns, right, very different apples and oranges, in terms of the level of service, the year round nature of it. And what we believe is, is really high touch as well. So again, learn more yfptax.com, you can book a discovery call, and we’d love to have the opportunity to discuss further. Sean, thanks so much. We’ll see you back in the spring perhaps when you’ve come out of hibernation well, not hibernation, because you’ll be working hard.

Sean Richards 31:30

It’s the opposite of hibernation. I’m not quite sure what the opposite exercise to that is. Yeah, yeah, hopefully I will emerge and not see my shadow or however that works. I will, I’ll see you in a couple months.

Tim Ulbrich 31:42

Awesome. And at that point, we’ll recap some of the things that you’ve probably been seeing throughout tax season and how people can be thinking again more proactively and strategically ahead. So thanks so much, and we’ll catch up later.

Sean Richards 31:53

Sounds good. Thanks, Tim.

Tim Ulbrich 31:56

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on podcasts, opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date published. Such information may contain forward looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 342: Replay – How Two Pharmacists Paid Off $250k of Student Loan Debt

Posted on by YFP Media

Kristen & Nate Hedrick share their journey paying off $250k student loan debt from the motivation to the role of side hustles and real estate investing.

Episode Summary

How do you go about aggressively paying off a $250,000 student loan debt without feeling overwhelmed? To help answer that question, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, is joined by fellow pharmacists Nate Hedrick, PharmD, and Kristen Hedrick, PharmD, BCACP. The Hedricks tell us how they successfully paid off over $250,000 in student loan debt, their motivation for tackling that debt, the pivotal moment that sparked making repayment a priority, and the role a side hustle and real estate investing played in their journey. After a brief history of Kristen’s background, listeners will hear what motivated the couple to take an aggressive stance on their debt repayments, how a life-changing event and one book altered their financial philosophy, and how the pandemic helped them focus on their strategy. Nate and Kristen share their reasons behind paying their debt off now instead of putting their money toward investments and how they found an additional $3,443 per month to make their goal attainable by reducing expenses and increasing their income. This earnest conversation takes us through the possibilities of working full time, raising a family, making investments, and paying off a huge debt, all at the same time. Nate and Kristen talk about their life after paying off this debt and share some advice for pharmacists who may be struggling with a similar debt situation.

About Today’s Guests

Nate and Kristen Hedrick met at Ohio Northern University and were married in 2013. Nate is a pharmacist with Medical Mutual and a real estate agent with Berkshire Hathaway. Kristen is a pharmacist with Bon Secour Mercy Health. Together, they graduated with over $300,000+ in student loan debt. They enjoy visiting National Parks as a family. Today they live in the suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio, with their two daughters, Molly and Lucy, and their rescue dog Lexi.

Key Points from the Episode

Kristen’s background, how she ended up in pharmacy, and what she’s doing now.
What their student loan debt looked like at its peak.
How student debt can creep up and surprise you.
The initial feelings the couple had towards their debt and their plans to pay it off.
What motivated our guests to come up with an aggressive plan for paying back their debt.
How a life-changing event (and a book) in 2016 changed everything.
The global pandemic as a moment of inspiration.
What they had to change in their lives to be able to make the monthly repayments.
Paying off debt now versus investing for the future.
The way the couple used ‘double motivation’ to reconcile an age-old debate.
How our guests were able to raise a child, invest, and pay off a huge debt at the same time.
Nate’s decision to pursue real estate investing and what that meant for their debt repayments.
The approach the couple has taken to make real estate investing work for their family.
Other strategies that helped to pay off the debt aside from cutting expenses and real estate investments.
The benefits of receiving objective, third-party advice.
What life is like now after paying off their massive debt.
How paying off the debt helped Nate make an important career decision.
Kristen’s advice for the pharmacist struggling with debt.
Nate’s parting words of wisdom.

Episode Highlights

“That was the worst that it got and, that same month, for what it’s worth, we had a negative net worth of $306,000. We had about 10k to our name and a bunch of debt to add on to that.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:03:44]

“I had no plan early on until we developed the ‘why’, which was getting our financial house in order so that we could live the way that we wanted to.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:06:23]

“The expenses were the catalyst, and then it was the extra income side of the equation that really boosted everything to actually make it possible.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:13:37]

“Spending more time with the kids without having that student loan debt, and being able to do more things and travel more, it feels like it’s definitely paying off in the end, with making some of those sacrifices.” — Kristen Hedrick, PharmD, BCACP [0:17:16]

“One great thing about real estate investing is even if something happens, you still own a building.” — Kristen Hedrick, PharmD, BCACP [0:22:00]

“Find something that is going to supplement your life that the more effort you put into it, the more reward you get out of it. That is a really great way to set yourself up for success.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:29:32]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00.4] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here. Thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Kristen and Nate Hedrick to discuss their journey of paying off $250,000 of student loan debt. In this show, we discuss their motivation and why, for aggressively paying down the debt. What the pivot moment was that motivated them to make the debt repayment a priority, how they were able to come up with more than $3,000 per month extra to throw towards the loans, and the role a side hustle and real estate investing played in helping them pay down the debt.

Before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers free only, high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional.

If you’re interested in learning more about working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

Okay, let’s jump into my interview with Nate and Kristen Hedrick to learn how and why they aggressively paid off $250,000 in student loan debt.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:01:23.4] TU: Kristen and Nate, welcomed to the show.

[0:01:24.7] NH: Hey Tim, good to be here.

[0:01:26.1] KH: Hi.

[0:01:27.0] TU: So Nate, obviously, you’re a frequent flyer. You’re old news so I’m not even going to spend a whole lot of time focusing on you. Many folks have heard you on the podcast before, whether it’s this show, talking about home buying, whether it’s the Real Estate Investing podcast on Saturday mornings, of course, Nate being the cohost of that show.

So, we’re going to focus a little bit more on Kristen’s background as we get started, and we’re going to jump into more about your debt-free journey and how ultimately, you guys were able to knock out $250,000 of debt, and what that has meant to you guys personally, to your family, as well as also the financial goals and plan that you have going forward.

So, before we jump into that debt payoff and that journey, Kristen, let’s start with you. Tell us a little bit more about your background, what drew you into pharmacy, where you went to school and the work that you’re doing now.

[0:02:13.0] KH: Yeah, thanks. I had some extended family members in pharmacy so I just thought it would be a good career path, and looked at the different pharmacy schools and found my way to Ohio Northern in the middle of cornfields, and no cellphone reception and for some reason, that’s where I wanted to go. I think we all know it’s a great campus and community there.

So went to Ohio Northern and that’s where Nate and I met. I completed my residency here in Cleveland, Ohio. Now I work for a large health system doing population health on clinical pharmacy, and following patients with their chronic disease states and helping them with their medicines, and helping in here in Cleveland.

[0:02:50.8] TU: Kristen, it’s funny you mentioned the cellphone reception in Ada Ohio, Ohio Northern University. I remember, I maybe as a P3, P4, just a few years ahead of you guys, but it was a big deal that they added a tower on campus, and I think we got one bar, maybe two bars, but not a whole lot going on in Ada Ohio. I had the chance to go back recently and take Jess and the boys. It was so fun to see campus and really relive some of the memories in that place.

So Nate, tell us about the student loan debt at its peak? What were you guys working with and then, from there, we’ll get into more of some of the motivation and journey of paying it off.

[0:03:26.4] NH: Yeah. So, when we graduated and totaled everything up and, I think it was even a month or two after we graduated that I even wanted to look at it. Because it was the initial plan of, “I just won’t look at it and then it won’t be a problem.” And when we totaled it all up, looking back at our highest count, we were at $316,000 in student loan debt at one point.

So, that was the worst that it got and, that same month, for what it’s worth, we had a negative net worth of $306,000, so we had about 10k to our name and a bunch of debt to add on to that.

[0:03:54.8] TU: I’m curious, did that surprise you guys? One of the stories I often share is that, it’s somewhat embarrassing, but when I was in pharmacy school, it felt a little bit like monopoly money, and it was all of a sudden when I crunch the numbers and I was like, “I owe how much, and how much interest, and what’s my net worth?” It just caught me off-guard, and it shouldn’t have. Were you expecting that or was that number somewhat a surprise at that point?

[0:04:15.4] NH: I agree, it was just totally like made up funds, you know? Every quarter or every semester, I’d have to go and submit for what I needed, and it was the tuition plus a little bit of living expenses, and I would just submit for it and it would get added into this imaginary pile of money somewhere, and I don’t think I ever checked the balance while I was in school, I don’t know why, I don’t know why I would have.

[0:04:35.7] TU: You’re dating yourself Nate, when you talk about quarters by the way. So that ain’t a thing anymore.

[0:04:40.7] NH: Old school, how I work.

[0:04:42.7] TU: Kristen, tell us about the plan that you guys had for the student loans after graduation, after you got married in 2013. How did you feel about the debt overall and then, what was the thought in that moment about how are you going to pay this off?

[0:04:55.7] KH: I think our main thought was it’s overwhelming. It’s just such a large amount that it feels so ambiguous that we thought that we had this plan. We had always wanted to try to pay it off within 10 years. I think I was a little more on track of, “Oh, I want to pay this off in 10 years” and we had some advice from a previous financial advisor that had said, “Oh, it’s just student loan debt, everyone has it, it will be okay.” We changed it to 30 years so we could have minimum payments but always pay extra if we wanted to and, ultimately, we just found that that eventually did not work as well for us.

We needed a more targeted plan to get us on track with what we were doing. We had always been paying the amounts, but I think it was how we were planning to target to actually pay it off. It always felt like this end date that we were never going to get to.

[0:05:44.4] TU: One of the questions I like to ask folks, and we’ll talk more in a little bit about how aggressive you guys were to really get a chunk of this paid off, but I like to understand, what’s the why? What’s the motivation behind it? It’s one of these things, as you mentioned, you can take them out 25, 30 years if you want to. Obviously, you guys made a good decision to be much more aggressive. Tell me more about for the two of you, for your family, why was that important?

[0:06:08.2] NH: It’s funny you say that because I think until I had a why, it wasn’t important. Like I said, I didn’t look at it, I barely wanted to check it. I think at one point in residency, I put myself on the graduated repayment plan and my only motivation was because the payment today is lower and that seems like—that seems better, right?

I had no plan early on, until we developed the ‘why’, which was getting our financial house in order so that we could live the way that we wanted to. Travel, work less, work in the capacities that we wanted to, all the things that have led us to this point. Until I had that in place, there wasn’t a why and it didn’t matter.

[0:06:42.7] TU: Yeah, I think that’s such a good encouragement for folks that are in the midst of their journey, or maybe have wondered into the repayment or for that matter, the financial plan at large, and feel like, “Hey, maybe I’m progressing but not as quickly as I would like to. I’m a little bit stuck.” Really going back to what gets us excited, right?

The topic of money, money is a tool. So, what gets us excited, why do we care bout this topic of money, why do we care about debt repayment, why do we care about saving/investing for the future, why do we care about giving? And then using that as the motivation to drive some of the action and the plan going forward.

So, Nate, what happened in 2016 that was really a motivation to say, “Hey, we’ve got to do something different?”

[0:07:22.0] NH: Yeah, that really is when it changed for us and, again, we’d been paying on them and, every once in a while, we get the idea that, “Hey, we should throw in some extra money because these loans are huge.” We would do it for a couple of months and I feel like we just were inconsistent. But in 2016, we got pregnant with our first child and, again, I tell this story on the podcast several times, but I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and it completely changed my mindset about money and what I wanted to do with money and what I wanted to do with my life and work, and just how I looked at finances.

It’s crazy it took that long to figure that out but I had no formal financial education. We go through pharmacy school, not business school, and until I read that book and changed how I wanted to approach finances in general, again, I didn’t have that why behind it. I didn’t have that motivation, so that’s what really jumpstarted us. I think it was a combination of, “Oh crap, we have a kid on the way and we have to pay for a lot of stuff” and again, this mindset shift that occurred, at least for me.

[0:08:16.1] TU: Kristen, I’m curious. I can just see Nate, because I know him now, I could see him like this totally nerding out over Rich Dad Poor Dad and coming to you with all these ideas and, “What about this, what about that?” Were you equally on fire in that moment or was there different motivations that really led you to say “Hey, we’ve got to do this differently?”

[0:08:34.4] KH: Yeah, I think I had always wanted to pay off the loan. Again, it was just so—it was a large amount that I think I didn’t know how to get there. When Nate said he read Rich Dad Poor Dad, he kept talking about it and talking about it. I think finally, in 2019, I read it, I said, “Oh, this is a really good book, I should have done it sooner”

So, I think we are a really good team together, in trying to work together and get those payments down, and Nate was very much more into it. I think at the time, I was like, I’m growing a human, I’m just going to keep doing what I’m doing, and that was the time that Nate entered real estate. He’s told this story before but, I’m six months pregnant and he goes, “Oh, I think I want to get my real estate license.” This is a time most people would have been getting board certified.

He’s like, “I’m going to go get my real estate license.” He had classes multiple times a week and I’m pregnant, trying to take care of the house and do all these things, getting ready for a baby. So, it paid off in the end and I’m glad that he did it, but I think in the moment there was also that stressful situation for me, but he’s a jack of all trades. He does lots of things and keeps busy, so it’s good.

[0:09:36.0] TU: We’re going to come back to that in a little bit, of what role did that play, Nate, for you, in terms of pursuing that, as you call, a side hustle. It’s much bigger than that, the work that you’re doing now, obviously, but why was that so instrumental, and not only to the numbers but also to some of the mindset and the motivation behind the financial plan and the journey that you were on?

I want to first talk about, though, Nate, walk us through what happened in the pandemic that really allowed you guys to say, “Hey, we’re going to get specific about when we’re going to payoff a big chunk of this debt, what it’s going to take each month.” Talk to us about what happened during the pandemic that led you to the decision around how you were going to pay off a huge portion of that debt.

[0:10:15.5] NH: Yeah, so, like I said, 2016 is where we started getting pretty serious, but even then, it wasn’t truly resolute plan, right? It was just, “Okay, we really got to be focusing on throwing extra money at this” and we did a lot better. But in 2020, we had a month or two in the pandemic and realized, “Okay, we’re not traveling as much, we’re not going to be going out to eat as much, everything shut down, let’s use this time to take the extra money that we’re not spending and really attack that loan.” At one point and, again, we were talking this morning, it was right at the end of the year, we said, “Okay, this thing is not going away, let’s really use next year to just get rid of this loan.”

So, right in December of 2020 and going into the beginning of the New Year, we said, “Let’s figure out a number. What is it that’s going to take to get this loan knocked out at the end of the year? Who cares of the balances right now, we’re going to do it in a year, let’s make sure to get it done.” So, we did some crunching of some numbers and basically said, “Okay, if we can pay everything we’re paying today but also throw an extra $3,443 at the loan every single month, mine will be gone by the end of the year and it will be just knocked out.”

So, that number, I wrote it on the big note card over here and it became like—actually got it here, I’ll grab it. Here you go, so there’s the evidence, right? 3,443. So, that became—I put that everywhere and it became the mantra of like, “If we can do that every single month, this will be gone” and that was such a huge motivator for us.

[0:11:32.8] TU: I don’t want to brush over that, because we’ll talk about it, I mean, that’s a big number, so we’re going to talk about the how of that, but tell us more about how you were able to get to that conclusion and get on the same page with that conclusion? What I’m specifically getting at here is, was it a, “hey budget status quo and we’re going to find ways to grow our income”? Was it a, “we’re going to cut some expenses”? How did you guys work through the details, Kristen, to ultimately say, “Yup, it’s $3,443 and this is how we’re going to do it.”

[0:12:04.5] KH: I think it was a little bit of a combination of both. During the pandemic, we had a little bit more interest. I think also, in doing some real estate investing and had an opportunity, we said, “Okay, do we take this money and do we put it towards real estate or do we pay down the loan more?” and eventually, we decide real estate, but we said, “Hey, like, maybe we should aggressively pay off our loan a little bit more if we are traveling and doing these things.”

So, I think in December, we had a lot of discussion about it and both of us just decided yes, we both want that to be our goal, that starting January 1st, we really start cutting back on what we’re spending. I think, really, from any area that we could, we went thorough our budget, we scrubbed it. We said, “What are we spending money on, what are the subscriptions we have, what can we cut out, what can we save money on?”

“Which of those little purchases can we just stop doing? Which things do we think that we need, can we actually hold off on buying?” and then, certainly, Nate’s side hustle helped with that as well. So, I think it was both a combination of, let’s cut back to really bare minimum spending. We weren’t eating out, we weren’t getting the extra cups of coffee from Starbucks, we weren’t doing the purchases at Target that said, “This is what you need, and this is in the dollar spot.” We just stopped all of that. And Nate worked as hard as he could with his real estate; it really is a motivator to keep putting that extra money towards it as well.

[0:13:22.3] NH: Yeah, I think we quickly realized that trying to find for an extra $3,000 in the budget. We weren’t over spending by three grand every month, that was not it, so it became my challenge to say, “Okay, well, how can I work at this side hustle to really get us the rest of the way?” So, the expenses were the catalyst, and then it was the extra income side of the equation that really boosted everything to actually make it possible.

[0:13:44.7] TU: Yeah. What I love about that is, certainly, cutting expenses, especially short-term, if you’re focused on a goal, you were talking about debt repayment, can be really valuable but it also can be a grind. I mean, it can be soul sucking sometimes, you know?

I think that one of the things I love about the approach that you took is that if you’re moving both sides of the equation, there’s a different level of momentum and mindset that come from that. Maybe the numbers aren’t as big for other folks that are pursuing ideas, but if you can both focus on, “Hey, how can we draw the income and how can we keep the expenses?” you all of a sudden feel like you’re picking up momentum in a significant way, but I don’t want to brush over that number.

$3,443 per month, that’s, for many pharmacist, if we assume, hundred, $120,000 of wage, it’s like, it’s about half of take home pay. I mean, for a lot of folks, we look at that at a monthly basis so that’s certainly commendable, and that’s a big number. Nate, I want to ask the question that I know the listeners are thinking, which is Nate, Kristen, you guys are smart. $3,443, why not invest that money?

Why not put that out so we could see that grow and compound over 20, 30, 40 years? Like, how did you guys reconcile this ongoing debate, which is maybe a little bit of a moot point right now because the administrative forbearance, but this ongoing debate of, “Should I pay down the debt or should I invest for the future?”

[0:15:03.9] NH: Yeah. This is something we struggled with for years. Should we go out and buy another rental property or should we just take this money and throw it at the loan? That’s been the back and forth. Like Kristen was saying, we were evaluating whether we should be doing real estate or paying down the debt.

We challenged ourself to say like, “Can we do both?” and so, for me, again, working and trying to add extra income to the equation. It became a game of, “Okay, if I can make $3,000 a month extra, that’s going to get us there. But if I can make 4,000 or 5,000, that’s another couple of grand I can put at the real estate investing budget.”

So what we have, we had a bucket in LI, in our LI bank account, that was the real estate investing fund and we still have that, we still use it, it is a great way to separate our money. I had to pull from that in any month that I didn’t make enough income to really make the difference, I had to pull out of that. So it was like this, I was afraid to give it up. So it became a challenge to myself and to us.

We need to cut our expenses and raise our income in a way where I can keep padding that account, that bucket, while also meeting our number. It was a double motivator of let’s get rid of the debt and I don’t want to lose sight of the other thing that I’m really passionate about. So, let us find a way to do both.

[0:16:09.8] TU: Kristen, we both know that kids could be expensive. We love them, but it can be very expensive. I think one of the challenges folks have that are raising young family, whether it is debt repayment, whether it is achieving other financial goals, is it’s an expensive phase of life, right?

The data suggested it’s multiples of hundreds of thousands to be able to raise a child, and I am curious of how you guys were able to reconcile this with young ones? I know you guys are so active and intentional as a family now. When you’re looking ahead to say, “Hey, this is a sacrifice now but it is going to allow us to really push our goals forward as a family later in the future.” Tell us about your thoughts on that.

[0:16:46.9] KH: For sure. I remember being pregnant in 2016 and just thinking like, “Oh my gosh, I already feel like we’re living paycheck to paycheck, how are we possibly going to raise a child and afford daycare?” We even joke now, our big expense is mortgage. Childcare and student loan debt was there, our mortgage was the least expensive of all of those.

So yes, certainly having kids is—we always felt like we knew we wanted to have kids and it was just figuring out how do we plan for that. I think, especially now, spending more time with the kids too without having that student loan debt and being able to do more things and travel more, it feels like it’s definitely paying off in the end with making some of those sacrifices or making those adjustments.

Really, that mindset change, I was joking this morning, like you said Tim, it’s mindset changing. In 2021, we actually kept a list of things of, what are things we didn’t buy that we’re going to buy when the student loan is paid, and I was laughing because I’m like, “I still haven’t even bought these things yet.” We just found that maybe we don’t actually need them.

[0:17:44.7] TU: Yeah and some of those behaviors. That’s what I always encourage folks, whatever goal you’re working towards, some of those behaviors you implement in that season will stay with you for the long run. Certainly, there’s a time and place to loosen the reigns a little bit and make sure we’re living a rich life today as well as planning for the future, but we’ll talk about what that looks like for you guys.

But some of those behaviors can stay longer, which I think is really an incredible part of the journey. I want to touch on two things we’ve mentioned I think play a really important role to this journey, which is, number one, that you talk about the side hustle you had working full-time as a pharmacist, as a real estate agent that allowed you to accelerate some of the goals and momentum.

Then the second being the investing in real estate, which much of our community already knows the work that you there on the Real Estate Investing Podcast but talk to us first about the side hustle as a realtor. When did you become a realtor, why did you become a realtor and you know ultimately, how have you been able to balance this while you are also at the time working full-time?” You are raising a young family, tell us about the decision to pursue that work and the role that it played and the debt repayment journey.

[0:18:51.3] NH: Yes, I mentioned that mindset shift that occurred in 2016. I realized I needed something else that was going to be able to supplement my pharmacy career, something where I could put extra effort in and get extra reward from doing that, real estate became a natural fit. Again, it is mentioned a dozen times in Rich Dad Poor Dad and I started reading other things about ways to diversify income streams and, you name it, right?

Real estate was in that conversation. I talked to my father-in-law who has been in real estate for years and he’s like, “You should just get your license.” At the time that felt like, “Well, that’s a different career. I can’t do that” but as I looked into it, it was actually a really reasonable option to supplement that. So I went, like Kristen said, to classes in 2016, got licensed in early 2017 and I assumed that everyone was all of a sudden coming to me, right?

All my family and friends were going to flock to me and say, “Nate, buy and sell me a house” and it was, I think, eight months before I had a real client and actually closed the deal. I mean, it was a long time, and that’s because I wasn’t putting the right amount of effort into it and I wasn’t targeting what I needed to be doing, right? I wasn’t niching down and, again, that’s what led to the creation of real estate RPH and all the work that I do with pharmacists and the real estate community.

All those things progressed down the road to the point where I am at today where, again, now I get to work with a bunch of active clients here in Cleveland. I help people all over the country with our real estate concierge service and it is a really cool way to put my passion for real estate into the world of pharmacy that I started out in and, again, it’s also been a great way for us to supplement our income stream just because it is something where I could put more effort in and get more dollars out as a result from doing that.

[0:20:21.6] TU: Yeah. I want to put a plug in, just so you don’t have to as well, but I think that service has really been so valuable to the community. So, if folks are looking to buy a home, sell a home, looking to buy an investment property and they’re looking for an agent that would be a good fit for them. It is okay if you’re not in the Cleveland area where Nate is, he’s built a network of agents all across the country that have supported other pharmacist.

So, if you go to yourfinancialpharmacist.com, you click on home buying, you’ll see a section for find an agent and from there, you can get connected with Nate further.

Kristen, I want to ask you about the real estate investing side just because Nate talks about this on the podcast every week but I know, because I’ve seen it offline through some of the times I am talking with Nate, you guys are crunching numbers on the property and you’re on the spreadsheets punching numbers, “Is this a good deal, is this not a good deal?”

Tell us more about the vision that you guys have had for real estate investing for you as a family, why that’s been a good fit, and the approach that you’ve taken thus far in your real estate investing journey?

[0:21:17.5] KH: Yeah, I think we always had an interest in real estate investing. You know, my family has some experience with that, like Nate mentioned, my dad is a realtor, so we knew its something we eventually wanted to do. It was just figuring out ,how do we put it in as part of our plan? But when Nate said he was interested, I was all onboard, but I was also that type-A risk averse pharmacist as in, “How do we do this? I have no idea.”

I vividly remember a lot of my commutes, listening to Bigger Pockets, reading a lot of real estate books just to fill my brain with the information I felt that I needed to feel comfortable with real estate investing, and we always knew that we wanted to have those properties. I think one of the biggest things I had learned from Bigger Pockets was, one great thing about real estate investing is even if something happens, you still own a building.

You still have something physical there that you could sell and we just—we always knew we wanted it to be something to supplement with one of our investments.

[0:22:13.4] TU: Yeah, so right now you guys have property, correct me if I am wrong, you’ve got property in Northeast Ohio and then you’ve also got property outside of the area, correct?

[0:22:22.0] NH: Yes, so we’ve got properties here locally and then some up in Michigan as well.

[0:22:25.7] TU: Awesome, love that. And folks can tune in to the Real Estate Investing Podcast for more stories of other pharmacists real estate investors. So, we’ve talked about really three main buckets that were instrumental in paying off this $250,000 of debt and that was, I categorize it as hustle, cutting your expenses that more than $3,000 per month, growing the income through the side hustle, and then also looking at how you’re able to build a real estate investment portfolio. We’re there other strategies that helped you along this way of paying off this debt?

[0:22:55.8] NH: There are little things. I think one that comes to mind for me is that we refinanced that loan, I think four different times, and a lot of that was because we were getting low interest rates every single time, and the other is because we were able to get big bonus. So, if you have been on any of the YFP resources for loan pay down or for loan refinance, you get cash bonuses depending on your loan balance.

A couple of times we would go out and refinance it, wait a couple of months, refinance it again, and we’d get a check and a lower interest rate, it just made a ton of sense. So, that was a little thing that helped quite a lot along the way.

[0:23:24.2] KH: I think another thing that really helped us was working with Tim Baker and the planning team at YFP. They were very much instrumental in guiding us through and helping us make the decisions. You know, I grew up putting my money under a mattress making sure it was nice and crisp and counting it every week. When we started this journey, Nate wasn’t financially savvy until 2016, when he got more into it after reading Rich Dad Poor Dad.

So, I think working together in having a third party objectively look at everything and give us some guidance was really helpful as well.

[0:23:55.9] TU: You don’t have to make Tim’s ego any bigger. No, I’m just kidding. I can see he is listening to that. So the question that I am begging to know the answer to is, you guys were throwing a huge amount of money at this debt. Obviously, at some point, you got that debt paid off and, all of a sudden, you’re not having to make that big of a payment anymore. I often think about this in the context of my journey and I often chalk it up to where did that money go.

Well, more kids, kids got expensive, other things come along the way, but I also know you guys have been really intentional as a family about what are we trying to do in terms of experiences and how we want to be intentional with the resources and the money that you have each month. So, Kristen, talk to us about this journey after the $250,000 of debt, where no longer making this massive monthly payment. What’s happening? What are we doing?

[0:24:43.5] KH: Well, we went to Disney World. I feel like that’s the most appropriate thing, you know? Honestly, in some parts, it feels like it hasn’t changed at all. We still have a lot of that mindset with being frugal and still saving for our future, but also trying to live in the moment, and we have done a lot of life planning as well and things that we want to do. I think we’re working on travelling more.

Like I said, we went to Disney, hopefully some other trips coming up, just being able to spend more time with the kids I think. People with children understand that the first five years before they start school is just hectic and overwhelming. We were just trying to take in all these moments before they head to school officially.

[0:25:20.1] TU: I love that. Right, it goes quick and everyone says that, but it’s real, and I think the intentionality around these experiences and making sure there’s the budget there to support those experiences and to be able to enjoy those moments along the way. Nate, you recently shared publically your decision to go from full-time to part-time work in your pharmacist role. So we’re going to officially call you a pseudo pharmacist now.

[0:25:41.7] NH: That’s fair.

[0:25:42.9] TU: How much of a factor was getting to this point of having this $250,000 of debt paid off, how much of a factor was that and being able to approach that decision and ultimately, feel confident in that decision.

[0:25:55.4] NH: Yeah, it was huge. I mean, I can’t say that when we stared off that was the plan but as we get closer, we realized that it was a possibility, and I looked at the timing and I looked at where we were at and I said, “Look, this is like the last summer before our oldest goes off to kindergarten and then it is just going to get crazier and crazier as time goes on” So I took a step back and said, “Now that this debt is gone, we really can take a step back.”

Kristen has been so supportive and helpful in allowing me to do that, but it’s been really cool because now I can just focus on them for the summer and those extra 20 hours that I found every single week is just, I’m on the kid’s schedule. Like the other day, it was raining in the morning and so we went to the movies and we saw a kid’s movie and then we got out and I was like, “Hey, it’s sunny. Let’s go to the playground” and so we did that.

It was just really cool to be on their schedule rather than some work schedule or something else that I had to do or had to get done. There wasn’t a timeframe anymore and that’s been really cool and again, without that debt being gone, there is no way we could have done that.

[0:26:51.3] TU: Yeah, what I love is I think both of you are such a great example. Where yes, you’ve got a PharmD, yes, you’ve got residency training, yes, you could continue to climb certainly in various clinical roles and there’s the opportunities always there and will be there, but you also have some opportunity for flexibility in those roles and I think sometimes we don’t think creatively enough as pharmacist about how we’re going to use our time each week, and that can change season to season.

I work with other pharmacists who went through a season with young family and others where they pivoted to part-time roles or more flexible schedules and then that changed the game at a later point in time. So I think there’s opportunities to make sure that we are coordinating our work plan with our life plan and with the financial plan as well. Kristen, I’ll start with you and then Nate, if you have other thoughts as well.

I’m someone listening who, maybe I’m a student, and I am like, “Oh my gosh, thanks so much I feel depressed about the journey ahead” or maybe I am in the middle of the debt repayment journey and I just feel like, “When does this going to end?” or I feel like I am spinning my wheels. What advice would you have for pharmacists that are in that debt repayment journey as they’re trying to really navigate that path forward?

[0:27:58.8] KH: Yeah. Not to sound cheesy, but I think a really big player, at least for me, was the YFP planning team. We felt like we had a plan but we weren’t really sure if it was a good plan, and really it was after I had our second child and I was listening to a lot of podcast. I was walking everyday on maternity leave and I was listening to podcast every time I would go for a walk and I was like, “We really need to look at this.”

I feel like we need a more set plan as to what we’re doing, especially since you’re at such an integral point of your life where you want to be able to spend extra time with the kids, but you also may feel like you can’t financially do that, and so I think having that, like I said, that objective third party look at what you two are talking about as a couple can be really, really helpful, and also helped us look at a lot of our other financial plan with the investments.

Like, can we get into more real estate investing, are we contributing enough to our 401(k)? Are we doing things that seem like we should be doing? I think that is really, really been a big impact on us on being able to achieve this.

[0:28:55.0] TU: Nate, any other words of wisdom, advice you’d have to folks that are kind of in the thick of it, if you will?

[0:29:00.6] NH: Yeah, I think for me, again, just for me at least, what were just this mindset shift away from being stuck at, “Okay, I only have—this is my income” right? “If I make a $110,000 a year as a pharmacist, that’s all I’ve got and there is no other opportunities and I have to make it work with that money.” I challenge everybody out there, and there’s a thousand and one different ways to do this, but you should find something where the more effort you put in, the more you get out of it, and it doesn’t have to be money, right?

That can be just time, that can be time with your family, that can be things that you enjoy doing, whatever that is, find something that is going to supplement your life that the more effort you put into it, the more reward you get out of it ,and that is just a really great way to set yourself up for success.

[0:29:40.9] TU: I love that. To reiterate what we talked about a little bit ago, the dollars are one piece of that, but don’t underestimate the momentum that comes from that as well, and that momentum is so important as it relates to the financial plan. You’re related to the debt repayment but I always stick to the other parts of the plan as well. Again guys, congratulations on knocking out this huge chunk of debt.

Really incredible to hear the story and the why behind it and how you’re able to do it, excited for what lies ahead of you guys and thanks for taking time to come on the show.

[0:30:10.5] NH: Thanks Tim, we appreciate it.

[0:30:11.6] KH: Thank you.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:30:12.3] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information of the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 341: 5 Financial Moves to Make in 2024 with Tim Ulbrich

Posted on by YFP Media

Tim Ulbrich, YFP CEO, shares 5 key moves for financial success, emphasizing automation, proactive tax planning, document organization, and continuous learning.

Episode Summary

In the first episode of the New Year, YFP CEO and financial educator, Tim Ulbrich, unveils a financial roadmap for 2024, emphasizing five key moves for achieving financial success and living a rich life. Tim highlights the pivotal role of automation in financial planning, proactive tax planning, the importance of organizing financial documents and the significance of continuous learning. He shares his personal financial goals and the systems he uses to organize and prioritize his financial goals. Tune in to gain insights and actionable steps for mastering your finances in 2024.

About Today’s Guest

Tim Ulbrich is the Co-Founder and CEO of Your Financial Pharmacist. Founded in 2015, YFP is a fee-only financial planning firm and connects with the YFP community of 15,000+ pharmacy professionals via the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast podcast, blog, website resources and speaking engagements. To date, YFP has partnered with 75+ organizations to provide personal finance education.

Tim received his Doctor of Pharmacy degree from Ohio Northern University and completed postgraduate residency training at The Ohio State University. He spent 9 years on faculty at Northeast Ohio Medical University prior to joining Ohio State University College of Pharmacy in 2019 as Clinical Professor and Director of the Master’s in Health-System Pharmacy Administration Program.

Tim is the host of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast which has more than 1 million downloads. Tim is also the co-author of Seven Figure Pharmacist: How to Maximize Your Income, Eliminate Debt and Create Wealth. Tim has presented to over 200 pharmacy associations, colleges, and groups on various personal finance topics including debt management, investing, retirement planning, and financial well-being.

Key Points from the Episode

Financial moves for 2024, including saving and automation. [0:01]
Balancing financial goals with living a rich life today. [3:04]
Proactive tax planning for financial success. [8:21]
Common tax mistakes and planning for tax season. [12:19]
Organizing financial documents for peace of mind. [14:43]
Automating financial planning for maximum profit. [20:19]
Prioritizing sinking funds for various financial goals. [25:21]
Prioritizing savings goals using a systematic approach. [28:24]
Financial moves for 2024, including automation and learning. [34:36]

Episode Highlights

“I get excited with the turning of the page into the new year. Not as a complete reset, but as an opportunity to really look more closely at the priorities that have determined to be most important to me, personally and professionally.” –Tim Ulbrich [02:22]

“Now tax in my opinion, is one of the most under appreciated and overlooked parts of the financial plan.” –Tim Ulbrich [08:27]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRO]

Tim Ulbrich 00:01

Hey everybody, Tim over here. And thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I kick off the new year by covering five financial moves that you can make in 2024 to jumpstart your financial plan. So whether your plan is humming or you’re looking to get refocused and back on track, my hope is that this episode will challenge and motivate you as you set your own goals and plan for 2024. During the show, I talked through why it’s important to set a plan that includes both saving for the future and living a rich life today, I discuss an often overlooked part of the financial plan that perhaps needs more love and attention, why automation should be a key part of your financial planning strategy, and much more. Before we jump in, I want to let you know about a free webinar that I’m hosting coming up on Monday, January 8, at 8pm/Eastern, it’s gonna be a party, and I don’t want you to miss it would love to see you there. During this webinar, master your money in 2024. I’m gonna cover my playbook going from $200,000 in debt to becoming a seven figure pharmacist. Specifically, I’m going to cover how to get clear on your vision for living a rich life, the system and money management routine that we use to get out of debt and save our first million, how to automate your plans, so you aren’t wondering if you’re on track to reach your goals, and how to determine your retirement numbers. If you can’t make it to the webinar live, no worries, we’ll send out a replay to those that register. But if you do attend live, you’ll have a chance to enter a giveaway where two live attendees will be selected for one of the following: $100 Amazon gift card or a YFP bundle including YFP tshirt, YFP pullover and your book of choice. You’ll learn more about the webinar and register your yourfinancialpharmacist.com/2024. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/2024. Alright, let’s jump into today’s episode, five financial moves that you can make in 2024.

Tim Ulbrich 02:03

Hi, there, Tim Ulbrich here and Happy New Year! I’m so excited to be kicking off 2024 with you here on the YFP podcast. Thank you so much for listening and for joining the show. I hope you had some time over the last several weeks to reflect on 2023, think about what’s ahead for 2024, hopefully unwind and spend some time with loved ones as well. I get excited with the turning of the page into the new year. Not as a complete reset, but as an opportunity to really look more closely at the priorities that have determined to be most important to me, personally and professionally. And to make sure that the schedule and activities align accordingly. And I hope the same is true for you. And as we talk about that turn into the new year, as it relates to the financial plan, I’m going to cover five financial moves that I think you should consider implementing here in 2024, if you’re not already doing so, in your own financial journey. We’re going to talk through each one of these in detail. I’m going to talk about how I’ve implemented this in my own life as well as why I think about each of these five areas really is core to your long term financial success.

So let’s kick things off with number one, which is making sure that our financial goals strike the balance between living a rich life today, as well as planning and saving for the future, right? We need to be thinking about tomorrow, we have to be planning and saving for retirement, making sure that we’re focused on moving our net worth in a positive direction, net worth being our assets, minus our liabilities, making sure that we’re taking care of our future selves saving for retirement filling those investment buckets, all of those things are a priority. And I hope you have some plans and goals around those in 2024. But let’s not lose sight of those goals that help keep us focused on living a rich life today while we’re planning and saving for the future, while we’re planning for tomorrow. So perhaps for some of you listening, you’ve long dreamed about a certain experience that has taken a backseat to the busyness of life. Maybe that’s as small as a weekend getaway. For those that have young kids, I know how difficult that can be. Or perhaps for some of you this is a big stretch goal, may be something as big as a year off, traveling the world having those lifetime types of experiences, those bucket list type of experiences that are most important to you.

You know, I think back to Matt and Nicky Javert that we featured on the podcast that traveled the world. Nick Ornella that took a year off from his job as community pharmacist to travel the world. We’ll share both of those episodes in the show notes. So no matter where your experience or goals live, there is no right or wrong. Each of us are on our own journey. Perhaps it’s something that’s experienced focus that hasn’t been a priority that you’d like to make a priority in 2024. But how about those interests, or hobbies that we used to long for and prioritize that have gotten lost again and that busyness of life and work? So for me in 2023 This wasn’t a financial expense, but it was something that brought great joy. One of the activities that I wanted to pursue was getting back into playing volleyball, something I had done competitively throughout high school, something that the busyness of life, other priorities and work just fell by the wayside. And I did that through a local rec league and that brought incredible joy to me throughout the winter. Or what about that side hustle business or project that you’ve been dragging your feet to take the first step on, or perhaps volunteering or giving opportunities that have gotten lost in the shuffle of other priorities of the financial plan.

So let’s make this year the year that we move the needle on both yes, those long term savings and investment goal saving for our future selves, while also prioritizing living a rich life today. Now, here’s the reality when it comes to setting and achieving our goals, many of us probably need to simplify and clarify our goals to put them in focus. There’s lots of competing priorities, regardless of the stage of life that you’re in. And so I would encourage you to put them down on paper, something that we’ve been doing inside of the YFP plus community last month in December of 2023, was writing down our goals in a measurable time oriented way over the next one year, two to three goals in each of the four areas that mean most to us and our own wellness, of course, finance here, we’re talking about one area of wellness, and sharing that out with one another as a mechanism of both accountability to do the activity, as well as hopefully encouragement and accountability and achieving those goals. So put them down on paper, identify two to three financial goals that you want to achieve over the next year. And again, yes, we’ll have some of those objective things, right saving for the future, investing in 401Ks and IRAs and all those types of investments. But I would challenge you: do you also have components of your financial plan that are aligned with living that rich life today? So we’re not talking about being specific, I’m referring to having a what, to having a when, and to having a why. To having a what, a when, and why. So for example, for us in 2024, one of the experiences we’re hoping to achieve is to go out west to visit some of Jess’s family in Montana in the summer of 2024. We know that’s an expense, right? Traveling from Ohio to Montana, we’ve got four young boys, whether we fly whether we drive, experiences along the way, that’s going to be a large expense. So when it comes to us, that might look like something that hey, by June 1 of 2024, we will allocate $5,000, so that we can take that trip out to Montana, and have that experience with our boys and be with our family, though that’s out there, right? We’ve got a what, we’ve got a when, and we’ve got a why. When we have a what, when and why, we can start to not only make that goal come to life, but we can implement that in a monthly plan to see what it’s going to take for us to be able to achieve that goal. And we’ll talk more about that later on this episode.

So again, before you set your goals for the new year. Get clear on the why right? Do your goals motivate you do your goals inspire you and for those that are you that are doing this together with a significant other, a partner or spouse, starting with the goal, starting with the vision, starting with the dreams and getting aligned in those areas, is going to really help the rest of the financial plan to flow. So that’s number one on our list of five financial moves that you can make in the new year, making sure that your goals include and strike the balance between living a rich life today, and planning and saving for the future.

Alright, number two is taking your tax strategy to the next level taking your tax strategy to the next level. Now tax in my opinion, is one of the most under appreciated and overlooked parts of the financial plan. And I want you to think about tax as a thread that runs across your financial plan, perhaps one that maybe you’re not thinking enough about that. Ideally, we are proactively considering and evaluating when we are making our financial moves. Now this sounds so obvious, but I historically previously have viewed tax very much in the rearview mirror, right we have to file by April 15, or thereabouts each year to meet the IRS requirements. We don’t want the IRS coming knocking at our doors. And when we do that we are accounting for what happened in the previous year. Now thankfully, because of our tax team, because of our attention and focus on this topic, I’ve become much more proactive in my tax planning as a part of the financial plan. But in years gone by, we would file our taxes and then we’d hold our breath right? Are we going to get a refund? Or are we going to have taxes that are due do we do we do our withholdings correctly based on differences in charitable giving from one year to the next right all of these factors?

I didn’t have a great picture on come that time of tax filing, what was going to happen, right, and that is less than ideal when it comes to optimizing this part of the financial plan. It’s so again, we need to shift our attention from tax preparation to tax planning. One is proactive. One is reactive right again when we go to file and we complete that paperwork whether you do that yourself whether you hire professional that is looking backwards if we start to think more proactive, hopefully at the point of filing, yes, we’re going to do that work, we have to do that. But we’re then looking ahead to say, hey, based on that information, based on the rest of our financial plans, based on our personal situation, based on changes that we know are coming or goals that we have, what can we be doing strategically in advance throughout the rest of the year, to make sure that we’re paying our fair share of taxes, but no more. So if you don’t already know your key tax numbers, I’m referring to things like marginal tax rate, effective tax rate, adjusted gross income, let’s make a commitment this year to get started and to learn more.

Now, I would love if you would get out the IRS Form 1040, we’ll link to it in the show notes. And just spend 10 to 15 minutes to make sure that you understand the terminology and the flow of dollars. I get it. It’s nerdy, right. And whether you like this subject, or you don’t you do it yourself, you hire someone else. Understanding these numbers and understanding the flow of dollars, and what those terms mean and how it ultimately affects your marginal and your effective tax rate is going to be really important as you think about the strategies, and you’ll be able to directly see how certain strategies you can implement in the financial plan are going to have an impact on the overall taxes that you pay. So as one example, AGI adjusted gross income has huge implications for those that are going through student loan repayment, right income driven repayment calculations, especially for those that are pursuing the Public Service Loan Forgiveness strategy, your adjusted gross income is directly tied to the monthly payment that you’re going to make under student loan. So if we understand that, we can then start to think about, well, hey, are there strategies I can use that can perhaps reduce or lower my AGI adjusted gross income? Not by making less than one do that, but by making contributions to things like traditional 401 K or traditional 403B accounts? Or how about health savings accounts? Right? These are types of things that can reduce our taxable income, therefore reduce our monthly student loan payment, which is a great thing, especially for those that are pursuing tax free loan forgiveness, all the while we’re accruing tax deferred savings into the future. Just one example of how important the proactive planning can be.

Now on episode 309 of the podcast, we’ll link to that in the show notes. Our CPA and Director of Tax Sean Richards covered the top 10 tax blunders that pharmacists make. So whether you have a negative net worth, or you have several million dollars saved, I think you’ll find a lot of value in that episode. Sean, reflecting on the recent tax filing season, where he filed he’ll correct me if I’m wrong, I think over 200 something returns for the different clients that we worked with. And what he saw as the most common mistakes that pharmacists were making. Some of those things, including having a surprise bill, or refund due at filing, probably the most common thing that we see, including some of the surprises that are causing that issue, right. And so what we want to be doing ideally is we’re shooting for zero, we don’t want to have an interest free loan that we have out to the government. And we also don’t want to have a surprise bill that’s due that we’re not ready for. So what are the common things that cause that refund or cause that bill so we talked about that on that episode. Another common mistake he discussed was pharmacists not employing a bunching strategy for charitable giving. So for those that are giving, especially giving at a significant level, and aren’t following the standardized deduction, Is there perhaps some strategy in the in the bunching of charitable contributions that can reduce one’s tax rate. He also talked about a common mistake he saw a new side hustlers and business owners not planning for taxes.

So earning income and being surprised by not paying estimated taxes along the way. We talked about under estimating the power of the HSA, the health savings account and an oldie but a goodie, not factoring in public service loan forgiveness when choosing tax filing status as married, filing separately or married filing jointly. So make sure to check out that episode episode 309. And easy to see as you hear some of those common examples why having a proactive tax plan is worth its weight in gold. Now, as we turn the page into the new year, this is a great time to be planning, right? We’re getting ready to go into tax season that mid April deadline that we talked about. So now is the perfect time to be thinking about the upcoming tax filing season. Our tax team is ready to help, yes with the filing, but also as I discussed here, with proactive year round tax planning. We do that through our comprehensive tax planning service you can visit YFPtax.com to learn more, and to see whether or not those services may be a good fit for you. Alright, so that’s number two on our list of five financial moves to make in the new year. Take your tax strategies the next level.

Number three is button up your financial documents. Button up your financial documents. Now getting organized with your financial records, I believe plays a significant role, not necessarily in terms of moving the needle on your net worth, but in making sure that you and others have access to all of the information that you need to make informed decisions with the financial plan. So think for a minute about all the financial accounts that you have out there, all the different documents, insurance policies that touch a certain part of your financial plan, the list quickly grows to one that is overwhelming. And the more you operate in your own system, the longer time goes by where you’re operating in your own system, the easier it is for you to navigate, but perhaps harder for others to navigate and unravel, should they need to do so in the future. And that’s where this concept of buttoning up your financial documents comes in. That’s where this concept of a legacy folder comes in. I first heard of that idea of a legacy folder, when I took Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University probably 10-12 years ago at this point at our local church. And I remember walking away thinking, wow, that is so simple. So obvious. Why haven’t I done that yet? Why haven’t Jess and I done that yet, as a part of our own plan. So essentially, the idea of a legacy folder if that’s a new concept to you, whether it’s a physical folder, and electronic folder, or a combination of both, it’s a place where you have all of your financial related documents. So in the event of an emergency, others would be able to quickly access your financial situation and not just access but be able to pick up and understand what’s going on and to be able to make key decisions in your absence. So we just went through updating this and shifting everything to an electronic version. So that in the event of something that happens to Jess and I those caring for our boys, along with the financial planning team at YFP have access to all of the necessary information. So here’s how we have organized it certainly not the only way to do it. But here’s how we have organized it in a combination of Google Drive, and a safe at home that has a passwords, all of our passwords stored in a One Password account. So we have nine different sections, I’ll describe them briefly, this sounds overwhelming, it did take a commitment of time to get started. It takes a commitment of time to update. But I will say there’s an incredible feeling of peace and momentum that comes from having this done.

So section one for us is what we refer to as important documents, okay, birth certificates for us, for our kids ,social security cards, marriage certificates, passports, all of these we have in a fireproof safe at home. And we have them just referenced as being there in the electronic version that we share with the financial planning team as well share with those that would take care of the boys in the event of our absence. So that’s section one important document.

Section two is all of our insurance policies and information – auto insurance, homeowners insurance, umbrella insurance, health insurance, long term disability, term life insurance policies for myself, for Jess, for the business, etcetera.

Section three is estate planning documents. So we have a hard copy of these in the safe that have been notarized and electronic version that’s uploaded in the Google Drive. So these are things like the revocable trust agreements, health care power of attorney living will last will and testament.

Section four is the car titles. Now, I’m not sure how valuable these are given our current condition of our Swagger Wagon, but they’re there nonetheless. So section four is the car title.

Section five is our home ownership documents. So this is the deed to the home, our home equity line of credit or HELOC information, we have another copy of homeowners insurance policy here just so it’s all contained in one section.

Section six is a summary of our financial accounts, our net worth tracking sheet, as well as our Social Security statements. So I’m going to talk about more of this in the webinar on January 8, and actually kind of show you the system that we have set up. But here I just have a quick summary, think of it as a table of contents of all of our financial accounts that are out there. So for example, we use Ally for checking and savings accounts, where we have our treasury bonds, where we have our different investment accounts, 401K’s, IRA accounts and so forth. So it’s just a quick summary of what is the account type, where’s the account. And then as I mentioned, we store all the passwords in a separate secure One Password account. We also have in this section, a net worth tracking sheet. So each month, we track all of our assets, all of our liabilities, we add those up assets minus minus liabilities equals net worth. And we’re tracking our progression of net worth over a period of time. So it’s a way that Jess and I can just quickly look at a 20,000 foot view of where’s our overall financial health whereas the overall trajectory of the net worth.

Section seven is our tax returns for personal and business tax returns.

Section eight is all of the records related to the business. So a summary of the different entities, legal documents, operating agreements, buy/sell agreements, etc.

And then section nine is just a miscellaneous so information about utilities and other accounts that don’t fit in the previous sections. Again, it takes time to get that started, but it’s something that you can act upon pretty quickly in the new year, and I encourage you to set an annual recurring reminder, whether that’s the turn of the new year, perhaps it’s daylight savings time or something else, that you just remember to update those documents as needed periodically.

Alright, so that’s number three in our five financial moves to making 2024, button up your financial documents. Number four is my favorite. This is the area that I think has moved the needle the most for Jess and I, in our financial plan over the last decade or so. And that is automation, making sure that you have a system and ideally a system that is working for you. Now, when it comes to automating your financial plan, again, I think just like the legacy folder concept we talked about, it’s so obvious, so effective, so easy to implement. But many people I don’t think are optimizing this. So think of automation, as the mechanism by which your income is working for you. And it’s automatically funding the priorities that you’ve already set, and determined to be most important in advance. Now, I know I’m not alone, when I say that I was feeling for some time that there are multiple financial priorities that are occurring at once that are swirling around in my head. And it can be overwhelming to think about what are those priorities? In what order? And how do we allocate the limited resource of limited income that we have to those? Should we focus on one? Should we focus on two? Should we focus on three? And so much of the stress around the financial plan, I believe, is from all of that unknown, and anxiety swirling in our heads, right? If we can get that down onto paper, and if we can start to put some numbers and a plan to it and prioritize it, we may not always like the outcome of how fast we may or may not be able to achieve those goals. But once we have a plan, once we articulate it, once we know we thought about it, we prioritize it, I think there’s a lot of clarity and momentum that can come from that. So automation helps put those goals into action. It takes the stress out of wondering whether or not they’re going to happen. So whether it’s saving for an emergency fund, whether it’s saving for a vacation, paying down debt, whether it’s student loan debt, consumer debt, auto loan debt, mortgage debt, whatever type of debt, whether it’s saving for retirement, saving for home, saving for investment property, automation helps identify and prioritize these goals and assign your income accordingly. Yes, it takes a bit of time to set up, perhaps not as much as you may think, because you hear about it. But once it’s set up, it provides a long term return on time benefit, but also better yet, as I mentioned peace of mind and feeling of momentum knowing that you’ve thought about prioritize and have a plan in place working itself to fund your goals.

Now, Ramit Sethi talks about this in his book, I Will Teach You To Be Rich, he does an incredible job of teaching automation credit to him. And he says that automating your financial plan will be the single most profitable system that you’ll ever build. And I remember hearing that and thinking, Man, that’s a big, big promise, right? But it is 100% true. Automating your financial plan will be the single most profitable system that you’ll ever built. So if you’re not already doing this, I want you to imagine a future state. Imagine a future state where your financial goals and priorities are clearly defined. You’ve determined how much of your monthly budget is available for these goals. And you have a system in place to automatically fund these goals every month so you get paid and your money is being distributed automatically. Paycheck comes in dollars are being funded to the goals that you’ve already determined and prioritized to be most important. Okay, so what does this look like? Here’s how Jess and I are currently implementing this. Now, previously, we adhere to a zero based budget, which I think really did help us laser in and focus on our expenses and account for every single dollar that we earned. That’s the premise of a zero based budget. I think that method works out really well, especially when you’re getting started or feel like you need to get back on track. But over time, we’ve loosened this up knowing that once we account for all of our monthly commitments, right, our monthly commitments, being mortgage insurance, property taxes, giving, groceries, subscriptions, utilities, etc. Once we account for those, and those are largely fixed, outside of some variation in utility payments, we have a certain amount of funds after we account for those things that we know can be allocated in two general buckets with several options within those two general buckets. So what are those two general buckets? General bucket number one is what we call everything else. So this includes things like gas, miscellaneous trips to the store, family experiences, family entertainment, eating out, et cetera. And we track this, Jess and I track this, in a shared Google Sheet. And I’ll talk more about this in the webinar on the eighth and what the system looks like. That just helps us make sure we don’t overspend this category. Okay, so we started with our total income. We define our total take home income. We then define, as I mentioned, all of those fixed expenses and aren’t really shifting too much from month to month – mortgage, insurance, property taxes, giving, groceries, subscriptions, etc. And in days gone by that would also have been debt payments. And then what’s left over, we’re going to allocate into two general buckets and what I’m talking about is this first general bucket of everything else.

The second general bucket is what we think of as our sinking funds. It’s the second bucket of funds that we want to predefine prioritize, set allocation amounts, and then set up auto-contribution of funds. So what do I mean by the sinking funds? Okay, so for us in 2024, the areas that we’re focused on are funding an HSA, I’ll talk about each one of these more detail, finishing our basement, funding that 2024 vacations, as well as saving for a summer vacation 2025, funding our Roth IRAs, funding the next car purchase, and then thinking more about the boys 529 funds for college savings. So for us in 2024, as we sat down and thought about what is the greatest priority, those are the things that rose to the top that we wanted to fund with these bucket two funds that I’m referring to, right, the sinking funds. So in this scenario, and within our discussion of automation, we would look to estimate the available pool of funds per month or per year divided by 12, we would then prioritize the list, determine the allocation order in the amounts. And then as I mentioned, we would automatically fund those and set up a recurring contribution. So for example, let’s walk through this let’s say that we assume that for the year, let’s assume we have $3,000 a month, or $36,000 for the year available to disperse across these bucket two goals. So again, I’m not talking about the expenses that we know we’re going to fund every month, we talked about that mortgage, insurance, etc., property taxes. I’m not talking about that everything else bucket that we know a certain amount for family experiences, for gas, other trips that we may take out. I’m referring to this bucket of sinking funds.

So let’s assume we have $3,000 a month or $36,000 a year to put towards the sinking funds. Now for some of you listening, you may think, Hey, we’ve got a lot more. That’s great, right? We want to be intentional with that. And for some of you, you may be thinking, Wow, we got a lot less, right? And so we have to focus on again, everyone is on their own journey. So how do we take this $36,000 a year? How do we take this $3,000 a month if we use that as an example, and disperse that across the different goals I just talked about: HSA funds, finishing the basement, Roth IRAs, car fund, etc. So for us, the HSA is really a top priority, not just because of the triple tax benefits. I know we’ve heard about that on that on the show before. But since we have a high deductible health plan, and we have four active boys, right, so we really need to minimize our risk there. And we’ve got a really high deductible as well as a high out of pocket max. So we know that we want to max that out and 2024. That’s $8,300 a year as a family contribution. And so we were going to do that as priority number one. So once we fund that HSA< again, we started with $36,000 a year, we fund, fully fund the HSA $8,300/year, we’re now left with $27,700. So working down the list, what’s priority number two? So for us priority number two is finishing the basement. Now we’ve been planning for this for years. And we’ve decided that based on this phase of life we’re in we’ve got boys ages 12 to four, it’s a great time that we want to make the most out of the space and we want to really make this project happen. For us, it’s the example I’ve referenced in financial move number one, right? Finding that balance between saving for the future and living a rich life today. Now, does finishing the basement financially make the most sense, right? Does does it objectively may make the most sense when we compare it against other types of things like Roth IRAs, or 529 funds, and be able to save and invest for the future? The answer is no. Right? It doesn’t objectively rank higher, any money that you’re going to save and compound over time is going to beat any expense, right? That’s just an objective fact unless that money loses a significant amount as you invest it. But as we step back, and as we look at for our family, finding that balance between living a rich life today, as well as planning for the future, as we look at the progress we’ve already made towards retirement savings, we’ve decided that in fact, we’re going to make this a priority over some other investment and savings accounts. Now, to be frank, I wish we would have done this sooner. And so we’re going to pull the trigger and make this happen in 2024. So for this example, let’s assume that it’s going to cost $25,000 to do the project. And let’s assume we already have $15,000 saved so we need $10,000 more to get the project done. So again, we started with $36,000. We fully funded the HSA at $8300. We’re going to now add another $10,000 in the basement. So we’re left over with $17,700.

Moving down the list of priority number three. So continuing this theme of finding that balance between living a rich life today and tomorrow, we want to prioritize two family experiences in 2024. One being a summer trip to the Fingerlakes that we take with my family. We’ve done this for several years. And another being a trip out west to Montana, I mentioned that a bit earlier. So let’s assume for both of those, that’s going to cost a combined $7,000. So after we subtract that, we now have $10,700 left.

Moving down the list. Next up for us is Jess’s Roth IRA, that’s going to cost $7,000 to fund and max that out and 2024. After we do that, we’re left with $3700, then let’s just round this out by assuming we’ll allocate the remaining amount to my Roth IRA to do a partial fund. Now, you can see this system and process that we worked through right, we identified the total estimated annual amount, you can do the same thing, divide that by 12 for monthly. We listed out the goals, and we match those up to prioritize accordingly.

Now, here’s the disappointing part. Or perhaps, depending on you look at it, it may be exciting is as I do. In this example, we have fully funded several goals, right? We fully funded the HSA, we fully funded finishing the basement, we fully funded to 2024 vacations, we fully funded just as RIA, we partially funded my Roth IRA. But we had several things that I mentioned that were left unfunded, okay? The kids 529 accounts and the summer 2025 vacation, as well as the next car fund. So we have a couple options here. We can go back to the drawing board and redistribute right, lower some of the other ones and partially fund some, and then have others that we are able to partially fund. Or we can stay as is knowing that if additional funds become available, right, whether that’s in the form of for us additional income, it could be tax refunds, although hopefully we’re doing a good job planning and that’s not the case. It could be side hustle income for some of you. It could be picking up extra hours, it could be gifts that you receive, whatever might be the additional income, we know that we have a system and a list that is prioritize that if that income comes in, we know exactly where we’re going to allocate that. And that is the power of automation. That is the power of having a system.

So one step further, what does this practically look like for us in terms of implementation? And I’m going to show much more of this during the webinar on the 8th, I’m really excited about that. So we use Ally for all of our online banking. Now, this is not a commercial for Ally. We really liked them. We’ve used them for several years. I like the capability they have with saving buckets and other features. But you can build a system like this, and many different types of savings accounts. So for us direct deposit from work income goes into Ally, goes into a checking account. And since we know the amount required per month to allocate to the goals we decided upon, there is then a bucket labeled for each of these goals inside of Ally. So the transfer of funds goes from checking account where the direct deposit comes in to savings account. And then within the savings account, we have a predefined bucket. So essentially what this looks like is you’ve got a certain amount of dollars, let’s say $30, or $40, or $50,000 in a savings account. But once you click into that, you see all these different sub-buckets for things like vacation, for a basement remodel. And again, you can do a multitude of different buckets, I think you can do up to 30 or so inside of Ally. In the case of for us, the IRA, the Roth IRA and HSA savings, you know, we could put those in the bucket as well inside the savings account, but we’re gonna set those up to be an auto contribution directly into the investment account, right? We want those dollars working for us as quickly as possible. So again, imagine that flow you get paid, right, we’ve identified the buckets that auto contribute into the buckets, because we know we’ve already accounted for it inside of the rest of the bucket and rest of the budget. And then that’s working for us once we have the system set up. Now depending on when you get paid for us, it’s the first of the month. But for you it might be two times a month. But regardless, once you know when you get paid and once that’s consistent, we know that anytime after the first so we get paid around the first of the month, as well as the 15th. But we use the first as our metric for when we’re going to auto fund these goals. So anytime after the first it could be the third, it could be the fourth, I think I have most of them set up on the fourth, we can have that auto transfer established to go from checking to savings to the bucket leaving only in checking what is left to pay off the credit card each month. And so that all other dollars, they have a purpose, right? They’re being defined and allocated towards a goal. That is the system of automation. And I’m gonna talk more about that in the webinar on the 8th. I’m gonna give you some visuals and show you how to set up so you can make the most of it for your own financial plan. So that’s the fourth financial move. I think the one probably that can move the needle the most. Automate your financial plan have a system in place.

And finally number five is set your learning plan. Now when it comes to personal finance, I believe strongly that there is no arrived with the financial plan. Right? This is constantly evolving. It’s constantly changing. And a commitment to ongoing learning and having the humility to understand that there’s much to learn, and that mistakes are inevitable, is really key to long term success. So next week episode of the podcast, I’m going to feature ten personal finance books that I think you can/should read in 2024 that have had a profound impact on my own journey. So make sure to tune into that episode. I don’t want to spoil the goods here. But it’s important that you define that learning plan and path that works best for you.

One of the greatest advantages that we have of living in the 21st century is that we have access to learning just about anything that we want. And often we can do it at a low or no cost, right. Thank you very much to our local public library. So whether it’s reading books, great to have at it! If it’s podcasts, blogs, videos, there’s many options out there, find the learning path, that means the most to you and has the significance and really engages you in the learning process. And I would encourage you -learning is one thing, right? But learning plus action plus accountability is really where things start to happen. So that’s number five of our five financial moves to make it 2024. Set an intentional plan around what you want to learn in this new year. And then determine what are those resources, what are the blogs? What are the books? What are the podcasts that are going to help you get there and I hope YFP will be an important part of that journey.

Alright, before we wrap up today’s episode, I want to remind you of that free webinar I’m hosting on Monday January 8 at 8pm/Eastern: Master your Money. This webinar, Master your Money in 2024 and a cover my playbook going from $200,000 in debt to becoming a seven figure pharmacist. Specifically I’m gonna cover how to get clear on your vision for living a rich life, to make sure we had that vision in place, the system and money management that I’ve used that we’ve used Jess and I, to get out of debt and save our first million. How to automate your plan. I’ll show you step by step process for automation. So you’re wondering if you’re on track to achieve your goals, and how to determine your retirement webinar. As I mentioned before, if you can’t make it live, no worries, we’ll send out a replay afterwards. But if you can make it live, we’d love to see you there and you’ll then be eligible for a chance to enter a giveaway. Two live attendees will be selected to either receive $100 Amazon gift card or a YFP bundle including a YFP t-shirt, YFP pullover and a YFP book of your choice. You can learn more at register at your yourfinancialpharmacist.com/2024. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/2024. Cheers to a great New Year. Have a great rest of your day.

[DISCLAIMER]

As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. information to the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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