Tag: your financial pharmacist podcast

Tim Ulbrich, YFP CEO, talks with the five recipients of the first YFP Gives scholarships.

Episode Summary

This episode is filled with inspiration as we share the stories of the five winners of the first YFP Gives scholarship.

Let this episode be a ray of sunshine amidst some of the cloudy skies plaguing the pharmacy profession. If the future is in the hands of these outstanding students and new practitioners, then the future is bright. In this episode, you’ll meet: 

• Alyssa Falleni, clinical pharmacist who specializes in addiction treatment, HCV, and HIV and is currently working in HIV outpatient care at Hartford Healthcare
• Momitul Talukdar, who after working in the radiology department at a hospital, discovered her calling as a nuclear pharmacist. Momi currently works at PETNET in Cleveland, OH
• Perrigrine Garner, a pharmacy student at the University of Toledo with a passion for helping those in need and a dream of owning an independent pharmacy that caters to those with chronic medical conditions and disabilities
• Ruth Adeyemi, a fourth-year PharmD/MPH Nigerian International student at the University of Florida College of Pharmacy and College of Public Health and Health Professions, with a deep-rooted commitment to improving health outcomes in underserved communities, particularly in her home country, Nigeria.
• Ai Len Nguyen Phan, a Rutgers Industry Fellow at Roche Genentech in San Francisco, with a desire to work in medical affairs and give back to the pharmacy community through her mentorship to the Rutgers pharmacy students

About Today’s Guests

Alyssa Falleni is a clinical pharmacist who specializes in addiction treatment, HCV, and HIV. After graduating from the University of Rhode Island, Alyssa went on to complete an ambulatory care residency at Hennepin Healthcare in Minneapolis, MN. Following residency, Alyssa completed a two-year VA Advanced Fellowship in Health Professions’ Education, Evaluation, and Research (HPEER) at the VA in West Haven, Connecticut. She will be continuing her teaching with the Yale School of Medicine as she begins a new HIV specialty position with Hartford Healthcare.

Momi Talukdar, MS, PharmD Candidate 2024 is a graduate of Northeast Ohio Medical University College of Pharmacy. She’s an incoming nuclear pharmacist at PETNET in Cleveland, OH. Along with her passion for nuclear pharmacy, she loves teaching nuclear pharmacy as an adjunct faculty at University of Wisconsin LaCrosse. In her spare time, Momi enjoys watching new films and art shows and trying out local coffee shops.

Ai Len (Aileen) Nguyen Phan is a second-year Rutgers Pharmaceutical Industry Fellow at Genentech, Inc. – Rare Blood Disorders Medical Science Liaison. She graduated from the University of Maryland, School of Pharmacy with her Pharm.D. and M.S. in Regulatory Sciences in 2023. She supported the US Medical Information & Communication Target Therapies teams during the first year of her fellowship. While Aileen has just recently started her industry career, she continues to give back to the pharmacy community through her mentorship to the Rutgers pharmacy students, such as supporting their scientific research on using artificial intelligence to assess oncology treatments. 

Perrigrine Garner, a non-traditional student, and mother of three amazing daughters, is currently a P4 at the University of Toledo’s College of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences. Perrigrine is passionate about advocating for people with disabilities, especially in healthcare, as she is also a person with physical disabilities. Upon graduation, her dream is to help advance inclusivity in her community by opening an independent pharmacy that caters to those with chronic medical conditions and disabilities.

Ruth Adeyemi, a fourth-year PharmD/MPH Nigerian International student at the University of Florida College of Pharmacy and College of Public Health and Health Professions. Her journey in pharmacy is fueled by a deep-rooted commitment to improving health outcomes in underserved communities, particularly in my home country, Nigeria.

With this passion, she started The Compassionate Pharmacy Practice Project (TCPPP), a project dedicated to transforming the Nigerian pharmacy practice system. The goal is to ensure that Good Pharmacy Practice (GPP) and Compassionate Care are not just concepts but realities in both urban and rural areas, significantly improving health outcomes in these communities.

While Ruth is Nigerian, her commitment to improving health equity in underserved communities extends beyond borders. She is dedicated to her goal of ensuring that all patients, regardless of their neighborhood and built environment, receive the patient-centered, optimal, and compassionate care they deserve.

Key Points from the Episode

• Student loan debt and career transition with scholarship winner Alyssa Falleni. [0:00]
• Financial planning, upbringing, and community support for a pharmacist’s future. [5:18]
• Pharmacy career path and nuclear medicine technology program with Momitul Talukdar. [12:17]
• Pharmacy school, career goals, and community service with Perrigrine Garner. [20:18]
• Resilience and financial planning for pharmacy school student with disabilities. [28:24]
• Pharmacy student’s passion for advancing health equity in underserved communities with Ruth Adeymi. [34:41]
• Digital skills training for African women. [39:08]
• Career goals and experiences in the pharmaceutical industry. [44:36]
• Resilience and determination in overcoming challenges with Ai Len Nguyen Phan. [51:47]
• Managing student loan debt and long-term financial stability. [55:50]
• Financial goals and debt management for a pharmacy student. [59:31]

Episode Highlights

“I want to be able to be present. I don’t want to have money, and the fear of not having enough or running out or, you know, that is not what I want for my future. So I am trying to be very intentional in making these decisions to set me up, to keep me on that path that I want for my future.” – Alyssa Falleni

What I learned early on from my mentors is that when I was an API student, I had the mentality that I was an employee, and now that I’m an employee, I had the mentality of a student, and this way I always like to learn, and I always like to be in a growth mindset.” – Momi Talukdar

That’s what has helped me through this pharmacy school has helped me through pharmacy school, and just thinking of my kids and knowing I went into this to better the lives of my children and better the lives of other people with disabilities, that’s just what kept me focused. “ – Perrigrine Garner

“Wherever I find myself, always looking for opportunities to promote and advance underserved communities.” – Ruth Adeymi

“It was really focusing on what are my goals now? What are the long term goals? And working towards them has always gotten me to where I am today. Going from learning English to getting into being a first generation in college. For me, it’s always been setting goals and working really hard toward them.” -Ai Len Nguyen Phan

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Gives
• Ruth Adeyemi LinkedIn
• Alyssa Falleni LinkedIn
• Perrigrine Garner LinkedIn
• Momitul Talukdar LinkedIn
• Ruth Adeyemi Links: 
  • https://sarmlife.com/ 
  • Books
    • [Mastering the Art of Blogging for Your Brand]
    • [Mastering the Art of SEO for Brand Growth]
    • [Book Bundle – Discounted Price for purchasing both books]
• YFP Disclaimer
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter
• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• YFP on Instagram
• YFP Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich  00:00

Hey guys, welcome to this week’s episode of The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on the path towards achieving financial freedom. This episode is filled with inspiration as we share the stories of the five winners of the first offering of the YFP Gives scholarship. Let this episode be a ray of sunshine amidst some of the cloudy skies that are plaguing our profession. If the future of our profession is in the hands of these outstanding students and new practitioners, I do believe the future is bright. Each of these five individuals featured on this episode recieved a $1,000 scholarship, along with one year access to our online community, yp, plus a copy of our book, seven figure pharmacist and a one on one Ask Me Anything session with myself or Tim Baker. Each of these applicants submitted a video recording that described their career goals and journey and how they would benefit from the scholarship, along with a letter of recommendation. Now, I expected these submissions to be good, but they were great. You’re going to hear yourself here in just a few moments as I share their incredible stories. And while I am grateful to have the opportunity to give out these scholarships through our nonprofit, YFP Gives, we want to do more, and we need your help. Please consider making YFP Gives a part of your giving plan and set up a one time or recurring donation by visiting YFPgives.org and clicking on Donate Now. As you’ll hear from these stories, your gift will have a positive impact and go a long way in helping students and new practitioners make that important financial transition early in their careers. Again, you can make a donation by going to YFPgives.org and clicking on Donate Now. All right, let’s hear from our first scholarship recipient, Alyssa Falleni. Alyssa, welcome to the show, and congratulations on being a YFP Gives scholarship winner.

Alyssa Falleni  02:01

Thank you so much. It is such an honor, and I’m so excited to be here with you today.

Tim Ulbrich  02:05

So give us a brief introduction of yourself, your background in pharmacy and the exciting work that you’re beginning now.

Alyssa Falleni  02:12

Yeah. So I am a University of Rhode Island PharmD graduate, and after spending six years there, I went on to residency in Minneapolis, Minnesota, at Hennepin Healthcare, where I focus primarily on ambulatory, outpatient clinical care, specifically in HIV and primary care. And after that, transitioned a little bit non traditional pathway to an academic fellowship with Yale and VA Connecticut in health professions, education, evaluation and research. It’s a bit of a mouthful, but just finished up my two years there, and thankfully have found a position working with Hartford Healthcare, where I will be doing outpatient HIV patient care. So I’m super excited to be transitioning into that new role.

Tim Ulbrich  03:10

So nearly a decade you’ve been training, right? You mentioned six years of school, three years of postgraduate training, a really unique academic fellowship program, and now you’ve got an exciting position that you’re heading into in the HIV outpatient clinical space. So all of that great on the career side, but we know with nearly 10 years of training can come a significant amount of student loan debt, right? That’s a big investment of time, big investment of money. And one of the things that you shared in your application submission for the YFP Gives scholarship is that you’re gonna be coming out with nearly $200,000 of private student loan debt. So as you reflect on the path going forward, couple $100,000 of student loan debt, that’s a big number. I’m sure there’s some weight that you’re feeling there also the exciting aspects that are ahead for your career. Just emotionally, how are you feeling about this transition financially?

Alyssa Falleni  04:06

There’s definitely a lot of excitement. I feel like all throughout pharmacy school, and even when I decided to become a pharmacist, everyone told me, you know, oh, what a great career. You’re going to be making so much money. And I have not felt that yet. I’ve been, you know, paying off my loans since I graduated on my trainee salary, which, again, very blessed to have at least that opportunity to be paid for that, but transitioning now to making more than double what I just was for the past three years, I’m excited. I’m also terrified. You and I talked a little bit about that a couple weeks ago, where I just don’t want to make the wrong decisions, and I want to make sure that I am putting every dollar in a spot that’s going to serve me well. So, yeah. A lot of excitement, but definitely some nerves about making the right choices.

Tim Ulbrich  05:05

Yeah, and you’re not alone in that kind of the split feeling right, the excitement, the enthusiasm, also the fear can be real, the overwhelming aspects of the student loan debt, and as you said, wanting to make the right decisions. And that’s one of the things I really admire about you, Alyssa, when we talked last week, I really sensed an intentionality and engagement of how you want to do this well. And I often say that mindset is such an overlooked yet important part of the financial plan. And many pharmacists are blessed with a great income, but if we don’t put that income to work, which largely depends on, you know, what is the mindset that we’re bringing? How intentional are we going to be? How proactive are we going to be in our planning? That income sometimes can only go so far, and so I’m excited to see where you go over the next several years, and I sense and feel that fear and some of those feelings have overwhelmed with you. But I also think you’ve got a bright future ahead of you. One of the other things you shared in your application, which is worth discussion, because I think we often underestimate how our upbringing can inform how we approach our financial situation today. And so you shared a little bit about some of the challenges, some of the struggles financially in your upbringing, and perhaps how you want to rewrite that story going forward.

Alyssa Falleni  06:24

Yeah, you know, I never felt like I didn’t have all the opportunities growing up, but now that I have, you know, looked back and seen what my parents did, so that I never felt that way. They definitely were stressed about money all the time. I’m one of four kids. We live in New Jersey, so, you know, property taxes are really high, and, you know, my parents gave us everything to be able to play, you know, club sports and do all the activities. But now, you know, hearing some of their discussions, because they’ve gotten a little bit more open, discussing with us about their finances, and I realized that they worked really hard to do that, and it was always on their mind, and that is not what I want for me or for my future family. I want to be able to be present. I don’t want to have money, and the fear of not having enough or running out or, you know, that is not what I want for my future. So I am, you know, trying to be very intentional, as you alluded to, you know, making these decisions to set me up, to keep me on that path that I want, you know, for my future, and I just got engaged, so my future husband and I, you know, we’re starting to really think about how we want to, you know, merge our lives together and make sure, you know, we make the right choices so our kids can feel that way. But also, you know, I feel a little guilty now as an adult. You know, never made to feel that way by my parents. But yeah, you know, I had known maybe I would have given something up or, you know, and I don’t want that to burden my future.

Tim Ulbrich  08:08

and I really admire, Alyssa, your awareness of that, because we often may not realize that, you know, some of the upbringing, some of the emotions, we call it, the Money Scripts, the Money Classroom we grew up in, we bring that into our own financial plan. And when we’re in relationship with someone else trying to do this together, we bring that together and and an awareness of that can really help identify, you know, in the moments when you’re like, Oh yeah, I sense fear, like, Where’s that coming from? Well, you know, that was probably a script that you grew up with. And then you can begin to work through that. So excited for your awareness of that. As you think ahead to this transition again, you’ve been in training for a long period of time, income’s about to go up. How do you feel like this scholarship is going to help you as you progress forward in your career?

Alyssa Falleni  08:54

Yeah, well, you know, a big part of why I applied for this scholarship was not necessarily for, you know, just the monetary award, but it was for that YFP Plus membership. It was being a part of a community that thinks similarly. It’s, you know, having that opportunity to get advice from people who are in a similar position. You know, as a pharmacist, we fall at a very interesting spot in healthcare providers. And so, you know, hearing from other people what they’ve done and in a similar career path, it does make a difference. It’s not the same as general financial advice, in my opinion. And so I think this scholarship gives me, really that community to become a part of that maybe financially. I you know, who knows if I would have found it, um, but I think hearing from those people and being a part of YFP Plus, and having, you know, the opportunity to see what other people are doing. Um. I’m also super excited for the book. I had a friend who lent it to me a couple years ago, and I got to read some of it before I had to give it back. But I’m excited to kind of have my copy and go through my financial steps, you know, as I read through that. So a lot of different areas, this has definitely connected me and made me feel a little bit more autonomous in making these decisions and not as fearful.

Tim Ulbrich  10:27

Yeah, I hear a sense of empowerment there. And you said something really important about community and being around like minded individuals, and so important in many phases of life. Here, we’re talking about finance. But you know, whether people engage with YFP Plus or they find another community that’s a better fit, so important that you’re being challenged, encouraged, supported by others that are on a similar journey. Community is huge, huge when it comes to making sure that we’re really progressing with our financial plan and really being challenged in the direction that we need to be growing as well. I’m gonna embarrass you for a moment and brag on you as we wrap up here and and read to our listeners just a segment from a letter of recommendation that came from a physician, Dr. Turner, that you worked with at the VA that speaks to you as an applicant, and I think why you really stood out to the selection community. Dr Turner had this to say: “Alyssa has a special collection of skills and abilities. She was able to excel on an interdisciplinary team with a variety of people from different backgrounds. She was universally well received, and I was especially impressed by her work ethic, humbleness, curiosity and ability to be flexible to make any team composition better and more effective. Alyssa has a rare combination of strong clinical skills, interpersonal skills, and a professional, hard working approach that brings out the best of those around her. I could, in good faith, recommend Alyssa to almost any team or project and be confident she would make the team stronger.” Alyssa, you should be proud of that. That is incredible. I don’t even know if you’ve heard that, seen it come in. So thank you so much for your application. Congratulations on the success that you’ve had thus far, and I really look forward to following your journey into the future. 

Tim Ulbrich  12:11

Momil, welcome to the show, and congratulations on being a recipient of the YFP Gives scholarship. 

Momitul Talukdar  12:17

Thank you so much. I am so excited. I was jumping up and down when I got the email about the YFP scholarship. I was actually standing in line to get Graeter’s ice cream. 

Tim Ulbrich  12:32

Good stuff!

Momitul Talukdar  12:34

Yes. So definitely celebrated with the extra scoop of ice cream when I found out! 

Tim Ulbrich  12:41

It’s funny, you mentioned jumping up and down. I was thinking before we hit record of when I think of Momitul, what I think of, and we’ve had the chance to cross paths a few times. We share a connection with NEOMED College of Pharmacy, and I have the opportunity to meet you several years ago, and in my brief encounters with you, I picked up on two things. Number one, is your joy. So when you said jumping up and down, that doesn’t surprise me. And number two, the passion that you have for the profession and the work that you are doing, and both of those things are contagious. And so it’s a pleasure to have you on the show and to be able to award this scholarship to you. Give our listeners a brief introduction of yourself, including what led you into the profession and the work that you’re doing right now. 

Momitul Talukdar  13:25

Absolutely. So my name is Momi. Last name is Talukdar, but most people will call me Momi. I had quite the journey into pharmacy, so I had a very non traditional route. So after undergrad, I did my undergraduate studies at the University of Cincinnati, and that is my hometown. So I lived at home while I went to college, and at that time in my life, I thought I wanted to become an optometrist. Long story short, optometry was not for me, and at the time, I was a little heartbroken when things didn’t work out. But, you know, life led me into doing a Masters of Science program in Tennessee and so, and I encountered a lot of people at that time, and you know, I really developed a lot of my study skills in my Masters of Science program that I did at Lincoln Memorial University. And so after that, I moved back home to Cincinnati to work at Mercy Hospital, and I worked at the scheduling radiology appointments, and when I was scheduling radiology appointments, I encountered nuclear medicine, and a lot of nuclear medicine patients, and I was responsible for reading a lot of their patient prep instructions. And radioactive iodine piqued my interest in terms of all the patient safety things that patients have to do before and after ablating their thyroid with radioactive iodine. I actually reached out to the nuclear medicine manager, Ingrid, at the time, and I asked her, I’m like, Hey, like, this sounds really cool. Like, you think I could be a nuclear medicine technologist. And she said, yeah, like, go for it. I think it’s a very rewarding career. So I applied to Mayo Clinic. Mayo Clinic’s nuclear medicine technology program, and got accepted. And through my time at Mayo is what opened my eyes to pharmacy actually. I had a rotation at a nuclear pharmacy that’s on Mayo’s campus, and that was a 4am shift. And when I first got my schedule, I didn’t think I was gonna like it. I really thought I was gonna dread this rotation, like, you know, I’m just gonna try to, you know, get through it. I ended up loving it. And I ended up doing a project with the nuclear pharmacist, Dr. Andrew Paulson at Mayo Clinic. And you know, long story short, he convinced me to go to pharmacy school. And after, you know, some thought in the cold Minnesota morning, at 4am I decided to go to pharmacy school. I wanted to move back home to be close to my parents in Ohio, in Cincinnati, and I actually interviewed at NEOMED. And right from the start from the interview, even after the interview, I reached out to Dr. Jackie Boyle, and I asked her, What nuclear pharmacy APPY rotation opportunities there were, if that was my career goal, that was why I was going back to pharmacy school, is to become a nuclear pharmacist. And just after speaking with her and all the opportunities that she presented to me like, yes, we do have a nuclear pharmacy. APPY rotation. I picked NEOMED to pursue my pharmacy education. I know it’s a kind of a long story there, but that is really how I came into pharmacy, and especially nuclear pharmacy.

Tim Ulbrich  17:20

Bringing it full circle, today is day one, when we’re recording, of your job as a nuclear pharmacist. So tell us a little bit more about the position you have entered into.

Momitul Talukdar  17:30

Yes, so if anyone is familiar with the nuclear medicine world, so you have PET and then SPECT. So what does that mean? So this is referring to the two types of cameras that you’ll see in nuclear medicine. So PET is your positron emission topography cameras, and you are mostly dealing with oncology patients, and you’re looking at the metabolism of a tumor. And a lot of oncologists love to order PET scans to see a progression of a tumor, if it’s benign, if it’s malignant, okay, great. So then the other side is SPECT. And these radio pharmaceuticals that we deal with, spec cameras, they have a longer half life than your PET radio pharmaceuticals. Pet radio pharmaceuticals are very quick. SPECT is more diagnostic. So, S, P, E, C, T, so  Single Photon Emission Computed Topography cameras and so say you have gastroparesis, and the gastroenterologist wants to see how fast or slow food is moving through your stomach and your GI system. So they’ll probably give you a gastric emptying scan, and that is basically eating radioactive eggs in the morning and with sulfur colloid technetium, 99m sulfur colloid eggs. And after the patient digests or eats that very big breakfast, we have them come in and take pictures with two SPECT cameras at the one hour mark, three hour mark, six hour mark. That’s like one of hundreds of SPECT studies that are out there for nuclear medicine. My position is PET, so I will be dealing with a lot of the therapeutic side, not quite diagnostic side, of nuclear medicine. So it’s not chemotherapy. Often times that pet radio pharmaceuticals, or a lot of therapeutics in nuclear medicine, get confused with chemo. It’s a little more direct than chemo and less adverse side effects than your average chemotherapy that oncology patient would go through. But I do love the behind the scenes nature of nuclear medicine. I am a very much early bird, so a lot of radio pharmaceuticals are produced early in the morning, 12am 1am 4am because these radio pharmaceuticals are teed up for your 7am/8am patients, whether it be a treatment or a PET scan.

Tim Ulbrich  20:17

Well, congratulations on you know, you talked about the journey and progression to Mayo and the interest and the pharmacist that led you there, which led to pharmacy school, completion of pharmacy school and the job. So congratulations on the progression and achievement of that. I think I just learned more about radio pharmaceuticals. I don’t even know if that’s the right term, than I ever did in pharmacy school. All right there we go. And I also learned that I’d be a terrible spec patient because I don’t like eggs, and I definitely don’t like radioactive eggs, so hopefully I don’t ever need that therapy. But what will make do. Yes, shifting gears to the scholarship. In your application video, you talked about the magnitude of student loan debt that you and to be frank, many of your peers, are facing upon graduation and beyond the $1,000 award that’s associated with the YFP Give Scholarship, which, let’s be honest, any little bit helps, right, but that’s going to put a small dent in and the overall magnitude of we think about the average student loan debt today is about $160,000 for the graduate. So my question here is, how will the scholarship and the materials help you, as you make this transition as a from a student pharmacist to a new practitioner?

Momitul Talukdar  21:30

Yes, so as we know, transitioning from a student to a pharmacist is a little tough, because now I’m not reliant on student loans that I have been for the last four years, moving into our apartment, getting new furniture, just setting up a new life for myself. I know I’m no longer a student and the responsibility of a practitioner is a little bit bigger, but what I learned early on from my mentors is that when I was an API student, I had the mentality that I was an employee, and now that I’m an employee, I had the mentality of a student, and this way I always like to learn, and I always like to be in a growth mindset. And I say that to say transitioning from any position in life, whether you be a student, an employee, mentality or not, it comes with a financial burden. Moving is not easy, and nor is it cheap, and just setting up a whole new life for yourself. I lived on campus, so I had to benefit a lot of benefits you know, as a student that now I don’t have now that I’ve graduated, which makes sense right now, I have a paycheck that’s coming to me,but I say that to say it’s definitely eased my transition from student to practitioner. This scholarship has, yeah. 

Tim Ulbrich  23:01

I think you highlighted something that’s really important is that there is a lot of transition, both in financially, you know, no debt, to finally earning an income. Often there’s relocation that comes with expenses, as you mentioned, and so important in that transition to be setting a strong foundation for the rest of your career. So I’m excited for you, Momi, on what lies ahead into the future, I look forward to following your journey and staying in touch as well. And again, congratulations on being a recipient of the scholarship. 

Tim Ulbrich  23:32

Perry, welcome to the show, and congratulations on being a recipient of the YFP Gives scholarship.

Perrigrine Garner  23:38

Thank you so much.

Tim Ulbrich  23:40

Let’s start, if you could give our listeners a brief introduction of yourself, including what led you into the profession of pharmacy and some of your career goals after graduation. 

Perrigrine Garner  23:49

Sure. My name is Perrigrine Garner. I am currently a p4 at the University of Toledo, College of Pharmacy in Toledo, Ohio. What led I’m a non traditional student, so I like to throw that out there first. I’m a mom of three daughters, so I decided to go back to pharmacy school in my 30s. A couple reasons was, first of all, I’m a person with physical disabilities, and I just noticed in the healthcare setting, there was a disconnect between different providers and services for people with chronic conditions and disabilities for throughout their lifetime, and I wanted to go into pharmacy to not only educate myself to better my physical disability symptoms, but to assist others in helping them as well, and kind of close, try to close those gaps in access for people with disabilities and just healthcare education as well, and then also, my great grandfather was a pharmacist, and he managed and owned local pharmacies back in the 30s in Toledo and Sylvania, Ohio as well. So following that family.

Tim Ulbrich  24:55

I think the synchronicity is really incredible. You shared with me right before when we hit record that you happen to be living in Toledo, which has some big aspirations of becoming the most accessible city in America for those that have disability, and for you to be there with the goals that you have, I think is a really cool opportunity for alignment into the future. So tell us more about some of the career goals that you have after graduation.

Perrigrine Garner  25:20

For sure. So my biggest career goal, my dream, is to open an independent pharmacy, or have some sort of pharmacy business that caters to people with disabilities and chronic conditions, and that it makes it more accessible for them to access healthcare and medicine to make their lives better throughout their entire lives. And so I developed relationships with local nonprofits that help people with disabilities, for example, the Ability Center of Greater Toledo, and they are the ones that their mission statement right now, with their new CEO, is to make Toledo the most accessible community in our country. So we really my thought process and my ambitions really align with their goals as well.

Tim Ulbrich  26:05

It’s exciting. I look forward to following that into the future. We had a great conversation before we hit record about some of the directions that that might be able to go and really sense the vision and the passion that you have for that. You are recently recognized as a recipient of the 2024 US Public Health Service Excellence in Pharmacy Award. Tell us more about your work and impact that led to that award. 

Perrigrine Garner  26:28

So I want to, I want to state that was a complete shock. It was a complete surprise, and honestly, so what had happened was there was an opening for pharmacy director for our Community Care Clinic, which is a nonprofit, free clinic for people in need in the Toledo area community that is a student run by students, medical students, pharmacy, nursing, all different groups Through the University of Toledo. We have a little space in a church down the road where we help people every Thursday. And I just said, You know what? When that position came up, I said, that is exactly what my passion is, is to help people in need. So I’m gonna apply. And I got the position, and I just did what I thought was right. And I just said, Okay, we need donations. You know what are some ways I can just help people. And then I I realized that the Ability Center of Greater Toledo, like I’ve mentioned before, they take donations and but then I mentioned to them, like, oh, are there some items you can’t use through, you know, your services? And they said, Oh, yeah. Like, we have certain items. And I said, Well, we can use, we can use those items. Are we have items possibly you could use? And they’re like, Yeah, so I actually just developed this, continue to develop a relationship with them, and would get donations for the clinic. And I just, I just did what I thought was right, and I would just stay all night at the clinic, helping people, helping the students. I really wanted to educate students on how important it was to help people in need in our community. So I’d go to all the travel clinics and just try to really educate how important it is to help people and that I truly feel. That’s what led to that award, because, like I said, I was just doing what I thought was right and what I’m passionate about. And then one day I came into class, and all the staff of the university was there, of the college, and I was like, what is happening? 

Tim Ulbrich  28:23

What is going on?

Perrigrine Garner  28:27

So overwhelmed with joy, I was just so thankful for that to be recognized.

Tim Ulbrich  28:32

That’s incredible. And I hear what you’re saying in terms of, you know, some of the shock and surprise, it sounds like it was very well deserved. So congratulations on that award. I want to talk about resilience for a moment. You know, that was something that really struck me, and I think struck our scholarship committee as we reviewed your application, your letter writer spoke to it as well. But as a mom to three daughters, and someone who has openly shared some of the personal struggles with cerebral palsy, with a disability, what what has been your secret to staying resilient and maintaining a positive attitude that’s allowed you to lean into the efforts, the work that you’ve done, the impact that you’ve had, and even as you think ahead to the goals that you have.

Perrigrine Garner  29:12

For sure, you know what I love to say, so starting in pharmacy school, I was nervous about how I would do physically. I knew I had the mentality to get through pharmacy school, but with my physical conditions, I have, like, I get weakness and pain and that sort of thing. But I said, You know what? What’s the worst that can happen? So I was just like, I’m just gonna give it my best try and go and honestly, my education through pharmacy a lot of the clinical aspects of it, and learning about my body and symptoms has really helped me. So it it’s like that’s what has helped me through this pharmacy school has helped me through pharmacy school, and just thinking of my kids and knowing I went into this to better the lives of my children and better the lives of other people with disabilities, that’s just what kept me focused. And there were times I’d be sitting in class in tears because of just being in pain, but I said, You know what? It’s just a feeling, and then just push through it and keep studying and keep doing your best. And I would at some points, I even was going to physical therapy within the hospital or college is located in between classes, just to keep pushing through, because I knew if I could get through this, I would be able to help more people in my position.

Tim Ulbrich  30:32

And you said something there, Perry, that I want to reflect and mirror back to you, because I think it’s a really important point as you think ahead to the big goals that you have and the impact that you desire to have, and I think are going to have on other people. And you said, What’s the worst thing that can happen? Right? When you talked about going through pharmacy school, what I hear there is an openness and acceptance to step into something that’s unknown. And perhaps that means failure, however we define that, or perhaps that means success, but not letting that fear get in the way of taking that important step. And I just want you to hear that, because that’s going to be if you can hold on to that as you step into these next phases, whether that be as a mom or eventually as a business owner and this vision that you have to help others, the vision and the impact that you want to have is great, and in order to step into that, it’s going to require running up against that fear and being willing to kind of push through that, and it will involve some failure here, there along the way. That’s part of taking risk. And I think you obviously have done that once, and I look forward to you continuing to do that in the future.

Perrigrine Garner  31:36

Yeah, thank you. I’m so excited.

Tim Ulbrich  31:39

As you think about this scholarship, there’s a monetary component. There’s some other resources that we’re providing with this as well. What role will this scholarship play in helping you as you make this transition into your final year of pharmacy school and eventually as a new practitioner?

Perrigrine Garner  31:54

Yeah, so this scholarship was very, very important. So I want to preference with for my bachelor’s degree. Thank goodness I was able to get enough grants and scholarships to do my bachelor’s degree. But then when I realized the graduate part of it, I was have a struggling with grants and scholarships, and so this is contributing to that, and where I don’t have to pull as much loan for that. So I just spoke with Tim Baker the other day, and he says the average student loan debt for a pharmacy student is about $160,000 which is crazy to me, but I’m going to be at about $80,000.

Tim Ulbrich  32:39

 Let’s go.

Perrigrine Garner  32:40

Every penny, every dollar helps. And this scholarship, I actually immediately bought the NAPLEX prep guide book because I knew that was something. It’s expensive. And I said, You know what? This is going to help me push forward through my education and studying and to do that exam. And then, honestly, like, I have got the book right here. I’m already, like, halfway through, and I’m just making goals and plans for my financial success. I’ve had a lot of setbacks, but I feel like I’m on the right track, and this is definitely an amazing tool to help me through this. 

Tim Ulbrich  33:17

Perry you’re embodying something I think is really important for any other students that are listening is, you know, I think sometimes it’s sometimes it’s easy to look at a $500,000 or, excuse me, not, 500,000 a $500 or $1,000 scholarship, you know, is, hey, what impact is that really going to make, right, when I’ve got $100 or $200,000 of debt, or perhaps when it comes to, you know, taking out loans each semester, you know, does it really matter if it’s another $1000 or $2000 and the answer is, yes. It does mathematically. But what you’re really highlighting is it’s it’s really a mindset thing as well, because you know, when you make some of these micro decisions over and over and over again, that’s how you’re able to graduate with $80,000 instead of $160,000 and that’s going to give momentum as you make this transition, and through having a reduced indebtedness as someone who also wants to own their own business, that’s an important thing, right as you’re making those next steps financially as well. So just admire the great work that you’ve done on behalf of the YFP Gives Scholarship Committee. Again, I want to say congratulations, and you certainly have earned this award. We’re excited to be able to administer the scholarship, and I wish you the best of luck going forward.

Perrigrine Garner  34:25

I really, really appreciate it. Like I said, every penny counts, and it’s just, it’s just a wealth of information as well. So I really appreciate it.

Tim Ulbrich  34:32

Thank you, Perry.

Perrigrine Garner  34:33

Thank you.

Tim Ulbrich  34:36

Ruth, welcome and congratulations on being a recipient of the YFP Gives scholarship.

Ruth Adeyemi  34:41

Thank you very much. I’m very excited about that. It definitely met a need for sure. Well, let’s

Tim Ulbrich  34:47

Start with a brief introduction of yourself, including what led you into the profession of pharmacy.

Ruth Adeyemi  34:54

Yes, so my name for everybody listening, is Ruth Adeymi, and I’m a fourth year student at the University of Florida College of Pharmacy. Highly passionate about advancing health equity, particularly in underserved population. And I say I mentioned that because my passion for pharmacy actually stemmed from watching my uncle growing up. He passed away already, but then when I was growing up, he was just very devoted to his profession, and a lot of people nearby even thought that he was a medical doctor because he cared for his patients beyond what your average pharmacist would do. And then that led me to wanting to be more like him and also to carry on his legacy. And what I saw now that I’m grown is that in the rural areas in Nigeria, you have pharmacists that they’re very transactional. And then when you look at the urban areas, that’s not the case, because they they take their profession more seriously. Once you, you know, offer counsel and make sure that the patient understands why they’re taking the medication. But then when you look at the population of Nigeria, about 60% is rural, so the majority of the population are not getting that counseling. They’re not getting that pharmacy based care, you know. So my goal is looking at what my uncle did. Just wanted to go back home to promote the need for patient focused care, ensuring that counseling is a part of everything that we pharmacists and patients can actually trust us to do our job, to ensure that when they’re taking that medication off the counter, they know how to use it, they know when to use it, and they know what not to use it with and what to use it with.

Tim Ulbrich  36:37

I love that, and I shared with you before we hit record that you had a beautiful letter of recommendation that was written by one of your professors, Dr. Whitner, from Florida College of Pharmacy. And in that letter, one of the things that was mentioned building on what you just shared, is, “Ruth stated to me during one of our first meetings that following pharmacy school, she hopes to change the infrastructure of Nigerian pharmacy practice.” So you’ve done a great job of articulating that vision, obviously, to other people as well, and thank you for sharing it with us here. I want to ask you about your involvement in chartering a new pharmacy chapter of SNAFA, which is a national pharmacy organization whose mission is to serve underrepresented minorities and underserved communities, and chartering that new chapter at the University of Florida College of Pharmacy. How did that, or how has that impacted your development as a leader within the profession of pharmacy?

Ruth Adeyemi  37:32

Yeah, I like that question so much, because one thing for me is wherever I find myself, always looking for opportunities to promote and advance underserved communities. And when I came to the University here in Jacksonville, we’re literally positioned in an area where there is a need, you know, and realizing that we don’t have a student organization that focuses on meeting those needs and going out to share, you know, to the different marginalized communities on how to take their medications, you know, and even like, just different explaining to them when a vaccine is needed, explaining to them when a medical intervention is needed. To me, that was alarming. And then, you know, having Dr Whitner, who is also very passionate about underserved communities, when she raised that question of, you know, having an establishing a SNAFA chapter in Johnson, though it just clicked for me, because it was like two passions meeting two passionate people is meeting and wanting to achieve a common goal, which is ensuring that even the student population understands why it’s important to have an organization that is centered on promoting and advancing health equity in underserved population so and also using my expertise and the knowledge that I’ve gathered over the years, just working in Nigeria and working with Nigerian students for the vision that I just shared with you, that also helped in chartering this Chapter in Jacksonville, using the different knowledge that I’ve gathered from doing that and bringing all of that into chartering SNAFA in Jacksonville. And so far, I’d say that just starting this chapter has really helped me to number one when starting any initiative like this, first of all, just understanding like the needs of the community. That’s very important. Because when I started the compassionate pharmacy practice project, which is a project that I’m working on back home to advance pharmacy practice, that wasn’t one of the things that I did initially, just trying to understand the need of the people, but with chartering SNAFA here in Jacksonville, it definitely helped me understand the importance of knowing what the need is in the area and using that information to put together events right put together initiatives that would actually meet the needs of these people. So I’d say that this organization is definitely helping me and building me to become that health equity leader that understands those basic aspects of putting together an organization, and I’m hoping to use that knowledge to use the knowledge that I’ve gathered as I move on in my career.

Tim Ulbrich  40:13

Yeah, and it’s clear to me that you’re a builder, a creator, an innovator, which excites me. We need more of those in the profession of pharmacy, so that that is definitely exciting. It’s evident through the work that you’ve done in starting that SNAFA chapter you mentioned the compassionate pharmacy practice project initiative, and another I want to ask you about. You also started the SARM life Digital Skills Program, which to date, has served and coached over 100 African women across the continent, in Nigeria, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Kenya and Senegal to capitalize on the digital surge in an effort to build their professional brands. Tell us more about this initiative and how it came to be in the work that you’re doing. 

Ruth Adeyemi  40:52

I love that you asked it that way, because this initiative is very dear to my heart. When I graduated from undergrad at Jacksonville University, and my original thought was to go home say hello to my family, because I had not seen them for four years. So I wanted to go home to see my family, and then come back to the United States, because I already had my admission to go to University of Florida. But on going home, that was not the case. Funding became a huge issue, and because of that, I had to defer my admission for a year. Now, during that one year of deferring my admission in Nigeria, you have a one year service to the country program for those who would like to work in the country eventually, and based on what I’ve told you about my passion for going back home. That’s something I have in mind. So one of my mentors told me, You know what, Ruth, enroll for this program. And that’s what I did in 2019-2020, enrolled in the National Youth Service Corps. That’s what it’s called. And during the first month of the one year training, we all get to be together, the batch. We all get to be together, and then we learn different skills. We get trained, and then we get dispatched to the different states in the country. So during my time getting trained, I decided to learn digital skills, and then I learned, like, one other skill trade. But the digital skill was very dear to my heart, because I just started my website, actually, where I was talking about, you know, my travel to New York City, because, you know, I’m coming from, like, a very small village in Nigeria. So I just wanted everybody that, yeah, so with the digital skills, uh, training, every knowledge that I get in there, I put it into my website, and I saw the growth. So I share that online. And from there, people just wanted me to coach them and teach how I was able to grow my website within a short span. And I love teaching. I love to see technology. So that’s how my blog became. It turned into a business which is now storm life. Now what happened a few years later, a year or two later, was was started as just a passion, you know, for sharing information online via blog, became a business that come last year, was able to pay my tuition before paying my tuition for school. It was able to cater to my needs when I was in Nigeria and even when I moved back to the United States. So I thought about it. If having a digital skill, owning a digital skill, could impact and change my financial journey this way, I also want other people to experience that. The unemployment rate in Nigeria is quite high, and we as citizens can contribute to reducing that so that, that was the thought process that I had, you know, and then I started the summer live digital skills internship in 2020 that was the initial language that we used the Covid year. And we had a lot of students that joined. They just wanted to do something, because everybody was inside. And from there, you know, we thought about it and decided to grow the initiative from just focusing on Nigerian and Nigerians to expanding so this year and we expanded into different African countries, Ghana, Kenya, Ivory Coast, Senegal. And we had about 133 students this year that trained on eight different data skills, and I had to hire like coaches and these skills to ensure that they’re getting the best knowledge. So for me, it’s a journey of financial freedom, so to speak, and just wanting other people to benefit from that. 

Tim Ulbrich  44:35

And while, while there is a piece related to your own financial plan, there’s also a contribution component, right? There’s a building and skill development, and I love that. To me, those are the best kind of businesses when you can provide value and fulfill an unmet need while also growing a business that’s going to have positive financial benefits to yourself and allow for other contributions to be made as well. Those are the best kind of businesses to be building. So I look forward to watching that grow. We’ll link to the SARM Life Digital Skills website in the show notes if our listeners want to go and learn more about that work. Related to that you shared with me right before you hit record, that you’re in the final editing of two books, not one two books. And by final editing, I mean like coming out within the next week. At the time of this episode going live, those books will be out. So tell us more about those two books.

Ruth Adeyemi  45:28

Yeah, so the first book is Mastering the Art of Blogging for Your Brand, and this book literally walks a blogger or a potential blogger, through the journey of blogging. Everything you need to know, from what website platform to use, what themes to use, what plugins to use, and even how you could build a sustainable blogging business, so everything from A to Z, that’s what I’ve included in this book to ensure that a new blogger can use it and get good results. Then the second book is Mastering the Art of Search Engine Optimization for Brand Growth. Now, with blogging knowledge, what ensures that your blogging efforts is successful is understanding search engine optimization so earchers and users can see your information on search engines. So with this book, you’d understand the different aspect of search engine optimization, the different strategies, from local SEO to technical to content, every aspect of SEO to ensure brand growth on search engines. So that’s what those two books are about. I’m very excited, because it’s my first time publishing books ever.

Tim Ulbrich  46:40

It’s a big project. It’s a big lift. So I admire the work that you’re doing there, while completing your PharmD, while running the business, while doing other all these other things. So we will also link. We don’t have that information at the time of recording, but by time we go live, we’ll have some information on how folks can learn more about those books and get a copy if they’re interested. So we’ll link to that in the show notes as well. Ruth, I have just a ton of admiration for the work that you’re doing, the goals that you have for the future. It really was an honor on behalf of the YFP Gives scholarship committee to be able to award you this small monetary award, I think, is a recognition of the amazing work that you’re doing. So again, congratulations and thank you for taking time to come on the show. 

Ruth Adeyemi  47:21

Thank you very much. Thank you for the opportunity as well.

Tim Ulbrich  47:27

Ai Len, welcome to the show and congratulations on being a recipient of the YFP Gives scholarship.

Ai Len Nguyen Phan  47:33

Thank you. Thank you, Tim for having me here.

Tim Ulbrich  47:36

Well, let’s start. If you could give our listeners a brief introduction of yourself, including what led you into the profession and some of your career goals after completing your industry fellowship, upcoming this year with Rutgers and Genentech. 

Ai Len Nguyen Phan  47:50

Again, first off, thank you, Tim for inviting me here today. I’m grateful for the opportunity to share my journey and story. Hello. My name is Ai Len Nguyen Phan and I am a pharmacist currently completing my second year as a Rutgers industry Fellow at Roche Genentech in South San Francisco. I grew up in Northern California and went to University of California, Los Angeles for my undergrad, and then I moved over to Baltimore, Maryland and attended the University of Maryland, Baltimore School of Pharmacy. I graduated back in May 2023 with my PharmD and Master’s in Regulatory Sciences. And then I moved back to California in July 2023 when I started my two year fellowship at Genentech. During my first year, I was with the medical information and communication team supporting the oncology and target therapies team, and then this year, I am with the medical science liaison team supporting rare blood disorders. So pretty much what got me into the profession is growing up in a family of my father worked in the healthcare system, and pretty much my uncles and aunts were all in the healthcare system. So growing up, I’ve always had this mindset of I want to be in the same setting, working setting, as they were all in. And so it’s never something that my parents pushed me to be in. It’s something that I have just grew up loving seeing the different stories that they share with me, the different experiences of meeting different individuals and how they are able to help them in small or big ways. So then that led me to really looking into pharmacy. And so that’s why I pursue pharmacy, first off, and then after the first year Pharmacy school, I got an internship with a company in Carlsbad, California. Love what I did. It was in rare diseases, and so seeing the impact again with helping people in a different way, different setting, I really fell in love with that. So I got the opportunity after my internship, and they offered for me to stay on as a part time. So I was able to be in the industry for almost four years throughout pharmacy school. So I grew in terms of my experience in industry, learn the ways of you know, like what medical affairs consisted of. And so here I am with the USMA team, or the medical affairs team at Genentech, but what my career goals are. So currently, I am completing my second year in the fellowship. I would love to stay within the medical affairs team, there’s just a lot of strategies and excitement and seeing how products go from, you know, a small molecule into the approval and seeing the amount of patients that we’re helping with the even in the rare space where there’s no treatment, or if there is treatment to cover any of that unmet medical gaps, is really fulfilling to me. And so that is my goal, short term, but long term, I would love to, you know, expand more within medical affairs or even in other functional areas, just because within the pharmaceutical industry, there’s so many opportunities. And importantly, I would love to be a mentor to those in that are in pharmacy school, in college, considering pharmacy or early in their industry careers, because I wouldn’t be here without the mentors that I have and then so still very new in my career journey, with a lot of things to learn every day, but outside of work and professional life, one of my professional goal, personal goals is to increase my financial and investment literacy. So I am thrilled to be here and speaking with you. 

Tim Ulbrich  51:47

Well that’s an exciting journey. And one of the things I want to highlight there, especially for any students that are listening, is what I heard was some internships very early in your career that opened the door to different aspects of the profession, how you could use your pharmacy degree, which, obviously those experiences led to pursuing fellowship, and now the career path you’re going to go, and I always am encouraging students to make the most of the seasons of internship that you have, right? There’s only so many of them before that partly gets the dictated for you, whether that be on IPYS or APYs is you only have so many options and choices, and really using those internship opportunities to pursue some more of the quote, “non traditional pathways”, and to explore the many different aspects of the profession that a pharmacist could go. So love that journey, love what you shared there. And I can really tell you know how mentors, preceptors have influenced you and your desire to give back in that area as well. One of the things, before we talk about some of the financial stuff, your application really centered around resilience and determination as two characteristics that you have embodied, that have helped shaped who you are today, and I suppose, will help you as well into the future. Tell us more about that resilience and determination and where that comes from? 

Ai Len Nguyen Phan  53:04

I would say the resilience and determination comes from my family background, and I see it through my father and mom. But pretty much, you know, I moved here as an immigrant when I was eight years old. I didn’t really know English, really struggle in school, and for years, faced bullying, but through that, I still continue every single night, I remember opening the thesaurus and the and the dictionary and learning from A to Z all the words in there. And I don’t think by the time I became proficient in English, I got through all the words in the alphabet the dictionary. But, you know, every night, I continue to learn each word. I learn past, perfect tense and all that, and continue to see the progress from there I saw, you know, it took me a long time to get to be able to be proficient in English. And so being able to get through that, and then understanding the language, being able to speak it well, has made me feel like, okay, if I can do that. There are other things in life that in the moment it gets difficult, but just determination. And I do think a little bit luck here and there, when opportunities come up, take them. They do help. But I would say for me, going through one hardship, really focusing on, like, what are my goals now? What are the long term goals? And working towards them has always gotten me to where I am today. So, like, going from learning English to then, you know, getting into being a first generation in college where my parents didn’t go to college here, so they didn’t know, like, what the SAT was, or, you know, like you needed to take the SAT to get into college at the time. And so me, just hearing people talking about it, and being curious, I just started to study for this exam, and being able to get into, like a really good university, and making my parents proud, being the first generation student, and from that working really hard to get into pharmacy school, and then now getting a fellowship, which is something that is also not the easiest thing to do. So I think for me, it’s always been putting my, setting goals, working really hard towards them, and then when I do face conflict, I reach out to my mentors. So I think the theme for me has always been, reach out to your support system, get their input. And then, you know, seeing those advices and seeing what works for me at the time, it makes me comfortable to take those actions or advice that they have shared with me and then implementing that in my strategy to reach my goals.

Tim Ulbrich  55:50

Yeah, and I think that mindset, as we transition to the financial aspect, I think that mindset I see is already translating for you on the financial side, one of the things that you mentioned in your submission was that the weight and burden of six figures of debt is real, and the impact of that debt is real when it comes to, you know, other expenses that can fit into the budget, being able to save and invest for the future. And as I shared with you before we hit record, I think sometimes as fellows, residents or even other new practitioners, there can be this mindset of like it is what it is like I’ll take care of in the future. I don’t really have the time or the money to kind of worry about this right now, but you’ve taken a different approach, which is, you’ve started to make student loan payments, you’ve applied for this scholarship, you’re pursuing opportunities to increase your financial literacy. And so that’s the mindset that I’m referring to it, and I’m curious, as you reflect on that, what keeps you motivated to have that long term mindset while taking one step at a time right now, even though those may not feel like big financial decisions you’re making in the moment, but that allow you to keep momentum without getting overwhelmed.

Ai Len Nguyen Phan  56:58

Tim, I would be honest the first time when I looked at my loans and I opened my No Net and I saw the amount, it was so scary to me, because when I went through college and even going through pharmacy school, I knew that I had loans, but just being able to open my account and seeing those numbers, it then hit me that at one point in my life, I am going to have to repay this. And so I was very lucky in a situation where I started work so I was able to work while I was in pharmacy school, and my motivation was really seeing those numbers each month or each paycheck that I received going down as I was making the payments and at the time as a student and based on what I was making, I did a different approach, where I don’t think I would be using the same approach once I later on, after I am done with my fellowship, but I tackled those loan groups that I knew I could afford and afford to pay off. And so over time, throughout four years, I was able to pay off multiple groups of loans, and that kept me motivated, and then I saw the numbers slowly going down. And truly, for me, it’s also a psychological thing where I was very happy and satisfied that I’m slowly making progress, but I’m also always I’m a planner. I think about what are my goals later in life financially? I want to be able to afford a home. I want to be able to live comfortably where, you know, I don’t have to live paycheck by paycheck or being worried that I have such a huge debt that I owe to their, you know, like in terms of loans. So for me, that has been kind of the mentality now, going being a fellow, I would say, you know, being a fellow now, I am making more than I did when I was a pharmacy school. So then again, it that motivation where, okay, if I was able to make payments while I was in pharmacy school working, I should also be able to make a payment now, especially if I’m making a little bit more and so. So then I think it helps me. I feel like what I’m doing now will ease the worry and the burden later on in the future, and again, always sticking to those long term goals, which is being able to be financially stable one day.

Tim Ulbrich  59:31

A lot of richness in what you just shared there. And you know, I think as as I heard you say, like, hey, when you think about your student loans into the future, you might have a different approach in terms of how you tackle those but as a student, it was all about momentum. It was about traction. It was about not getting stuck. And you know that meant going after the ones that you could tackle based on what you’re making as a pharmacy student at the time, and that is so important, we underestimate that in the financial plan. Yes, we’ve got to worry about interest rates and all that stuff. All. Important that we nerd out on it, but momentum is such a driver of the financial plan and progress, especially when we think about doing this over a long period of time. You know, with our careers, I often say that the financial plan, it’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint, right? We have to maintain that momentum, and this is what Darren Hardy is talking about in his book, The Compound Effect, when he says that small, consistent choices over a long period of time equal radical difference. It’s the compound effect. It’s the momentum. And obviously there’s strategy to be had there. But I love that you were thinking about momentum even when you’re in pharmacy school. That is great. Let’s talk about the future. So you mentioned in your application you have a 10 year timeline as a goal for paying off your loans. I think you’re going to do it faster than that, but let’s assume that it is 10 years from now. We wake up, it’s August, 2034 which is weird to say that out loud, it’s 2034 you’re debt free. What else is going on? What are the financial goals would you like to accomplish in this first decade of your career?

Ai Len Nguyen Phan  1:01:02

Yeah, I would say, you know, looking thinking about 10 years from now. So by then, I hope I would already, like, I said, own a home, financially stable, living comfortably. But also I really want to dive into real estate. I feel like that’s something that has always been a goal of mine, or at least thinking about it, or seeing I’m always either real estate, a parking lot or a laundromat. Those are like the three things that I always think about investing in. But truly, before even diving into those, I just think that, you know, like I want to take care of myself, but again, the core of my success has always been my family, my parents. So I do want to also be able to financially invest in them in one way or another, either it’s their retirement home or just their retirement plan. But then also thinking about my retirement plan as well, and thinking of what investments I can make during that time. And like I said earlier, when I was introducing myself, one of the things that I want to be able to do is gaining increasing my financial and investment literacy, just because I don’t feel like I am there yet to comfortably make any decisions. And I think that is somewhere that 10 years from now, I hope to achieve that by then, and at least have my own retirement plan established, as well as a investment plan.

Tim Ulbrich  1:02:32

Well, I have no doubt that you’re going to figure all of that out. I hear a lot of different goals around not only the paying off the debt. I hear goals around financial independence, whether that be through traditional investments, real estate, etc, I hear goals potentially in owning some businesses, supporting family as well, right? And that that’s the clarity that I’m often encouraging new practitioners to really spend some time thinking about hard to do when you’re in postgraduate training. You got a busy schedule, but we want to have a North Star for our financial plan, so as you’re paying off debt, as you’re saving and investing money, like what’s the purpose? What’s the why? Where are we trying to go to make sure that we’re finding that balance that we so often talk about between living a rich life today and also planning and saving for the future? I look forward to following your journey. We’ll have you back on the podcast. 2034 we’ll get an update, see where you’re at. But in all seriousness, Ai Len again, congratulations on being a scholarship recipient, and I’m excited for what lies ahead for you.

Ai Len Nguyen Phan  1:03:26

Thank you, and thank you again to you and the committee for believing in me. And I’m so grateful for this scholarship. I do truly believe every dollar counts, and so this will really help me too with my financial burden. So thank you for having me again.

Tim Ulbrich  1:03:42

Well, there you have it, five incredible stories of the first round of winners of the YfP Gives scholarship. If you’d like to learn more about the efforts that are happening within YFP Gives, our nonprofit, you can visit YFPgives.org from there, you can learn more about the scholarship as well as participate by donating. As always, thank you so much for listening to the YFP podcast. If you found this episode to be helpful and insightful, do us a favor and leave us a review on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your shows each and every week, we’ll catch you next week. Take care.

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