Tim Ulbrich revisits his 2019 conversation with David Burkus, author of Friend of a Friend, to explore how we can rethink networking and build relationships that unlock new opportunities. This episode is brought to you by First Horizon.
Episode Summary
In this week’s episode, YFP Co-Founder Tim Ulbrich revisits a 2019 conversation with David Burkus, best-selling author of Friend of a Friend, to explore how we can rethink networking and build relationships that unlock new opportunities. David, an expert in organizational behavior and network science, challenges traditional networking advice and highlights the surprising value of “weak ties”—connections we interact with less often but that can open unexpected doors.
He also explains the power of “dormant ties,” structural holes, super connectors, and the importance of authentic engagement. Tune in for an insightful discussion on leveraging your network to drive success, both professionally and personally.
About Today’s Guest
David Burkus is a best-selling author, a sought after keynote speaker, and Associate Professor of Leadership and Innovation. In 2017, he was named as one of the world’s top business thought leaders by Thinkers50.
His book, Friend of a Friend, offers readers a new perspective on how to grow their networks and build key connections—one based on the science of human behavior, not rote networking advice. He is also the author of Under New Managementand The Myths of Creativity. David is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review and his work has been featured in Fast Company, the Financial Times, Inc magazine, Bloomberg BusinessWeek, and CBS This Morning.
David’s innovative views on leadership have earned him invitations to speak to leaders from a variety of organizations. He’s delivered keynote speeches and workshops for Fortune 500 companies such as Microsoft, Google, and Stryker and governmental and military leaders at the U.S. Naval Academy and Naval Postgraduate School. His TED talk has been viewed over 2 million times.
Key Points from the Episode
Introduction to the Podcast and Sponsor [0:00]
Sponsor Introduction and First Horizon Home Loan [1:27]
Interview with David Burkus: Background and Motivation [3:09]
The Concept of Strong and Weak Ties [13:39]
Engaging with Dormant Ties [22:05]
Operationalizing Networking: Tools and Systems [26:08]
Addressing Concerns About Systematic Networking [29:21]
The Concept of Structural Holes [31:23]
The Role of Super Connectors [35:42]
Connecting Networking to Personal Finance [40:59]
Episode Highlights
“The goal is to make weak ties like your old friends, those people who you could pick up the phone and call and it just feels like no time has passed since the last time you’ve talked to them.” -David Burkus [17:52]
“The big lesson is, whatever is unique and authentic for you, that is a system where you’re regularly checking back in with these dormant ties that will work. You’ve got to be comfortable doing it, but once you do it, stay consistent with it.” – David Burkus [25:27]
“If you think about Facebook, for example, if you pull up a list of your friends on Facebook, it’s already sorted by how frequently you interact with those people, right? And in a lot of other places, you can ask for it to sort your existing connections that way, right? So scroll all the way down to the bottom, boom, we’ve already found some of your dormant ties.” – David Burkus [22:01]
“What I tell people, if you get all the way to the end of the day and you haven’t thought of something, you can send a three sentence email that will, believe it or not, jump start a conversation, and the three sentences are: “I was thinking about you today. I hope you’re well. No reply needed.” – David Burkus [24:11]
YFP Gives accepts advertising compensation from companies that appear on this site, which impacts the location and order in which brands (and/or their products) are presented, and also impacts the score that is assigned to it. Company lists on this page DO NOT imply endorsement. We do not feature all providers on the market.
$750*
Loans
≥150K = $750*
≥50K-150k = $300
Fixed: 4.89%+ APR (with autopay)
A marketplace that compares multiple lenders that are credit unions and local banks
The following post was written by Kevin and Erin Fuschetto. Erin Fuschetto, PharmD is a 2004 graduate of Ohio Northern University. Erin is a staff pharmacist for Giant Eagle Pharmacy in Salem, OH. Kevin Fuschetto, PharmD, BCACP is a 2007 graduate of Ohio Northern University. Kevin is the Clinical Coordinator for Giant Eagle Pharmacy in the Youngstown, OH region. I was inspired by their story to become debt free and to take control of their finances. I hope you find their story inspirational as well!
Erin: My name is Erin and I am a debt-aholic. This is my first month without debt. My debt problem began when I decided to go to pharmacy school with $0 in college savings. 6 years, 5 credit cards, 2 pharmacy degrees and one wedding later, my husband and I had accepted over $305,000 of debt. I say accepted, because we willingly signed up for this disaster. We were both full-time pharmacists with our “own money” and separate checking accounts. He paid his school loans, car, credit cards and the mortgage and I paid my school loans, car, credit cards and the utilities. We could afford the monthly payments and still enjoy fancy vacations every year. We were living the life!
Kevin: My name is Kevin and I am also a debt-aholic. Looking back at our original list of debt, my initial thoughts are, how did we get to this point? We were both pharmacists! Where was our money going? I honestly could not remember how this happened. I do remember how easy it was to go into debt. A credit card here, a car loan there and don’t forget the extra private “student” loan to pay for the wedding. We knew we couldn’t fix this on our own. We needed a new way to live. We needed help.
Erin: One day my husband came home talking about a radio show he listened to that talked about getting out of debt. He would come in every day with a new pearl of wisdom. He was spouting jargon like “snowball”, “rice and beans”, “live like no one else”. I honestly didn’t think we had a problem, so I didn’t take his words to heart, but he kept talking. He made me listen to the show and finally something clicked. We signed up for Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University at a local church. The first lesson for us was to get a joint checking account. I hated this idea. It was one of the toughest parts of our debt pay-off for me. I am a hider. I had cash stashed in coffee mugs, secret savings accounts and a “cushion” of $500 in my checking account, not recorded, just there to feel more secure.
Kevin: My wife and I are perfect compliments for each other. She loved to save and I loved using her “saved” money to pay off debt. She finally agreed to the joint account, but only if we got Muppet checks. Kermit, Miss Piggy and Animal made a lot of payments to our creditors. Not only did this simplify our debt pay off plan, it also seemed like we had more money! No more, I’ll pay this, you pay that, transfer this money here. We were well on our way. We ran our credit reports and closed all of our credit cards (even those we didn’t even remember we had) the first month. Then we cut them up, even my beloved Best Buy MasterCard… no more new DVD Tuesdays for me. Debit card or cash only for this family. Can you believe it? Paper money still pays for things!
Erin: The next few months were a crazy crash course in how to live on a budget and say no to new shoes and eating out. Satellite radio was canceled. Magazine subscriptions gone. Lunches were packed. Coffee was made at home. Every dollar we made had a purpose and a name. We paid off the smallest debts first, then moved onto the cars! I had never owned a car without a payment! The student loans took a long time. We would get excited for our tax return, our yearly bonus or coin wrapping day, because all of that was extra money to help us hit our goal.
Kevin: Initially the budgeting process was not easy, it took many months and meetings to fine tune the budget. We built up a small emergency fund and learned to plan for expenses. When a bill or an unexpected expense occurred, it was a great feeling to know the money was already there. We learned to cash flow everything! We wanted to start a family so we planned, saved, and budgeted our son’s birth. To make extra money, I took a part-time job as a MTM consultant on the weekends and during the baby’s naps. We traded in our now paid-for car and bought a new (used) car. The salesman asked us what kind of payments we were looking for. My wife and I laughed and I said “We are writing you a check for the full amount today!”
Erin: Our last student loan was a whopping $90,000 consolidated loan at 9% interest for 30 years. April 21, 2016, 20 years early, we made the final payment on that loan! We changed our future! Now I get to do what I love most… save, diversify and relax!
Kevin: Now we are free to start the next phase of this journey, no more looking back at the mistakes of the past but forward toward the future. Now we can save for our son’s education so he will not be burdened with student loans. Now we can save for our retirement. Now we can give back to those people and organizations that have helped us. Now we can do whatever we want!
It was a long journey, 56 months long! We wish someone had told us growing up how loans and interest worked. We were raised that if we could afford the monthly payment, that was good enough. Now we know the myths about debt. You don’t have to build your credit. You don’t have to go into debt to succeed. What does a credit score say about you other than how much you love being in debt? You can’t retire on cash back, bonus points or air miles!
Erin: We are debt free and we will never go back! Hasta la vista Visa! See ya later Sallie Mae! Kiss my ACS!
In celebration of Mother’s Day, my wife, Jessica Ulbrich, was kind enough to share her thoughts about our financial journey. As many of you know, she is mother to our 3 boys (Samuel, Everett and Levi) and I am forever grateful that they get to learn from her each and every day. As you will read, she chose to focus on budgeting and I am glad she did. This is tough area and not fun by any stretch of the imagination. She has great insight to share and I hope you will enjoy this post as much as I did. If you have any questions for her about this article, you can contact her directly at[email protected]
Budgeting.
Ugh.
It might as well have been a four-letter word in our home.
It felt like someone had taken all of the fun out of living – now with each purchase having to be diligently accounted for, it honestly felt like I was trapped and reveled that we couldn’t keep living as blindly as we were living. At one point, we were outspending our monthly income! While we weren’t living extravagantly, we were living irresponsibly and we needed to do something about it.
And that’s where we started talking about budgeting. When Tim and I set out to become debt-free, the budget was the necessary and essential tool toward achieving that goal. I can still remember sitting down with Tim and pulling up our bank account information online, grabbing spiral notebook and pen and starting to outline our monthly expenses for the first time. Only one of us was excited about this new journey…and it wasn’t me.
Tim looked at the budget as freedom. By knowing and accounting for all of our monthly expenses, we could start to live more. I, on the other hand, looked at it as chains, each envelope seemed dismally short-funded and there was not much room for “fun.”
Can you relate? Maybe you’re feeling the same way. Or maybe you have a spouse that doesn’t like sitting down to talk numbers. Certainly a lot of people must feel that same way as only 52% of Americans earn more than they spend.
After following the budget for a couple years and realizing some of our financial goals, here is how I went from hating the budget to fully embracing all the freedom it could truly provide:
#1 – Appealing to my heart.
Tim and I have three boys. Being a mom is such a gift. I love my role and responsibility as mom and Tim knows this very well about me. So, to help bring me on board he tapped into my love for motherhood to help explain why he wanted to be debt-free and how the budget would help us do that.
Here’s how he communicated it to me:
By living on a budget, we could get out debt faster. Getting out of debt would allow not only for more discretionary income that we could use for our boys, but also allow us to set crazy dreams and goals for them.
Before setting the single goal of becoming debt free, we had multiple goals we were pursuing simultaneously, including funding a college account for each boy. When we started honing in on eliminating debt, we temporarily put a hold on contributions to their college accounts to put all extra income toward debt.
Staying singularly focused on getting out of debt so that we could start helping our boys with college again was one way that I was absolutely willing to stay on track until we were debt free. It was also the first time that I saw our budget the way Tim saw it: a tool toward freedom. Our debt chained us down and prevented us from one opportunity we wanted to gift our children with. The budget was the path to cutting the chains and putting our money where we really wished it could go instead.
Maybe for you isn’t not about college accounts, but what is it that your debt is preventing you from doing? You could probably put down a list of things quickly! What do you dream about doing? Do you want to travel more? Do you want to give more? Do you or your spouse to be able to stay at home with your children? Whatever your goal is, write it down and it will help you stay committed to your budget.
#2 – Budget for some fun, too.
I recently had a conversation with an individual who said that she would love to get out of debt, but didn’t want to sacrifice all the things that she enjoyed. I hear you, it’s really hard (see my initial feelings up above!)
Each month, Tim and I had our own personal envelopes that we could use any way we desired. We could use it to buy new clothes or books (we love Amazon!) get a coffee or dinner out with friends, etc. We also created separate envelopes for date nights, family nights and an envelope for clothing/items for our boys.
At first, there wasn’t much put into each envelope, but the fact that we had dollars earmarked for those specific “fun” items was critical. It meant that we could still do some of things we enjoyed, but this time it was all budgeting and accounted for and would not derail our ultimate goal of eliminating debt.
It also meant our communication on spending was streamlined. So, if I wanted to use my envelope money on another pair of shoes or Tim wanted to use his on yet ANOTHER financial book (love you so much, Tim!), those decisions were individual and we trusted the other to use their monthly allowance as they saw appropriate. No more arguing over personal purchases.
#3 – Give yourself grace and revisit your budget often.
It took Tim and I several months before we finally set realistic numbers for our grocery category. At first, it was frustrating to me that we ran in the “red” on that category for so many months. Since we had never tracked our spending in that area before, we arbitrarily set a number. After months of monitoring receipts and spending, we could finally set an accurate number that we can work within every month. But I can say that it was disappointing when it felt like the budget wasn’t “working.”
It’s important to revisit the budget monthly and to talk about it weekly. Sometimes we have more birthdays in a month so the “gift” category gets bumped up. Some months we are hosting more, so we put some extra in the “grocery” category. Doing this allows us to stay on the same page and plan for where our dollars are going. We have also found that meeting weekly to review expenses helps us catch areas where we are overspending and then we can do a mid-month adjustment to make sure we stay on track.
#4 – Get help and encouragement.
I’m grateful that Tim is passionate and gifted in this area for our household. His commitment and expression of this goal was essential to keeping us on track, as I would have derailed our plan many times over by now. There is no way I would have been disciplined enough to continue to work within our budget if I hadn’t had Tim’s leadership.
It is so important to work together with your partner on this goal. And if you’re single working on a budget, find someone that can help you stay committed to your goal and hold you accountable on your journey.
#5 – Love the budget because it isn’t going away.
I wish I could say that now that we are debt-free that we no longer have to work within a budget. But even on the other side of the journey, we still have new goals to work toward and the budget is once again the tool toward achieving them. Even thought I am not passionate about budgeting, I am very passionate about the freedom living within a budget has provided for us and that is why I will stay committed to it.
After we paid our final college loan payment, we did go back and rework our budget to put a little bit more money in some of the “fun” envelopes I mentioned earlier and generally there is a bit more breathing room. But I know even if we had millions of dollars, we would still be committed to the budget and our goals would just be fueled by bigger and greater dreams!
Financial Homework:
So which kind of person are you – someone who loves the numbers or someone who doesn’t?
What if you love working with numbers and creating the budget and your partner doesn’t? What ways can you appeal to their heart? Find ways to make the journey to your goal realistic and still “fun” along the way.
What if you’re the one resisting the budget, but your partner is on board? Take time to express why this is difficult and how your partner can help you stay motivated on your shared journey.
If you’re working on a household as an individual, who can you bring in around you to encourage you and help you stay on track as your reach your goals? Find someone that will help you stay committed to your plan and check in with you regularly.
While Jess and I made some great decisions along our journey to pay off $200K in debt, there are some that I certainly wish we could have back. I recognize there is nothing we can change about these decisions now. My hope is this list will prevent at least one person from making one or more of the same mistakes that I did. It took me a while to hit send on this one since some of these are pretty embarrassing. Nonetheless, here they are…my top 10 financial mistakes.
#1 – Buying a house without 20% down
Jess and I moved to Munroe Falls, OH in the summer of 2009 when I started at Northeast Ohio Medical University. Not knowing the area, we rented for a year and then decided to buy a house in 2010. We got the itch to buy a home and the offering of the first-time homebuyer tax credit exacerbated that itch. As a result, we only put 3% down to get into our house. While the monthly payment for our mortgage was well within our means, we could have waited one more year and banked enough money to put at least 20% down.
I see three main reasons why it is good to put 20% down on a home, even with historically low interest rates. First, with 20% down, you will not find yourself in a situation where you have to pay private mortgage insurance. Second, you are more likely to buy within your means, especially if you desire to get into a home sooner rather than later. Think about it. If you hold yourself true to waiting until you have 20% down but at the same time are eager to get into a home, you will likely lower the price range of homes you are looking at so you can make that happen faster. Third, when you put a chunk down such as 20%, you instantly have some equity in your home so if the market goes down and/or you find yourself in a situation where you have to move sooner than you anticipated, you will be in a better position. Remember, mortgages are structured so the interest is frontloaded so it takes time to build up equity in the home by paying down the principal.
#2 – Delaying the purchase of life insurance
Delaying the purchase of term life insurance when you have a family that depends on your income is outright stupid. Go ahead; call me stupid, I deserve it. I’m not sure what I was thinking. Yes, I had some life insurance coverage through work (1x my annual salary) but nowhere near enough for what you would want to have in place (e.g., 8-12x your annual salary).
I currently have a 20-year term policy just shy of $1 million dollars in coverage that costs only $38 per month. Over 20 years, my payout in premiums will be just over $9,000. That is a pretty good investment for $1,000,000 of protection if my family were to need it in the event of my death within the next 20 years.
#3 – Trying to balance too many financial priorities at once
Jess and I were trying to balance a bunch of financial priorities at once. The problem is that we weren’t doing any of them very well. We were trying to pay extra on the house, save for retirement, start saving for kids college, build up an emergency fund and pay off student loans…all at the same time. While we were doing all of them OK, we weren’t doing any of them particularly well. There is something to be said about focusing on one thing and for us that one thing should have been getting out of our student loan debt as fast as possible so we could start focusing on the other priorities.
I’ve talked to too many new pharmacy graduates with loans that have interest rates above 6% and while trying to pay off those loans, they are also trying to balance buying a home, purchasing new cars, saving for retirement, and so on. Here is the thing. If you have high-interest rate debt (e.g., 6-8% student loans or credit card debt at an even much higher of an interest rate) there is little to debate. Pay it off as fast as you can. This should be your top priority unless you are banking on something like loan forgiveness. Where it gets sticky is when you have low-interest debt (e.g., car loan at 0.9%). Many will advise that it is not wise to pay off low-interest-rate debt at the expense of saving that money. That is an OK decision as long as you are actually saving that money which is often not the case. Why am I a fan of paying off debt no matter what the interest rate? By focusing on maximizing your debt payment within your monthly budget, you naturally limit your other expenses.
#4 – Waiting 7 years to create a ‘legacy folder’ including the will
For whatever reason, the idea of putting together a will seemed intimidating and time-consuming. While it wasn’t as critical when it was just Jess and me, it should have been much more critical when we had the boys. Amongst other things, the will covers what we would like to happen with our kids upon our death. We have all heard nightmare stories of custody issues that happen as a result of someone not having a will in place. As with many things we tend to drag our feet on doing, it wasn’t that bad after all. We used an online will-making site and had it done in under a couple of hours.
As Jess and I were going through Financial Peace University at our church, one of the lessons brought up the idea of creating a ‘legacy folder.’ Essentially, this is one place where you store all of your financial documents and important information so that in the event something happens to you; someone else can quickly get access to what they need to. If you are in a relationship where one person does most of the financial-related tasks in your household, this is even that much more important!
Putting together the ‘legacy folder’ took several hours but it was well worth it. In one place, we now have all of our financial documents. That is a great feeling.
#5 – Taking out student loans without knowing what was involved
I think most of us are guilty of this one. Taking out debt without knowing what we are getting into. For me, it was not understanding what my student loans were all about. I was 18 years old starting pharmacy school and the last thing I cared about was what a subsidized versus unsubsidized loan was or how the interest rate could compound over time at such a nauseating pace. Furthermore, I had little understanding of the repayment options and the advantages or disadvantages to refinancing and consolidating.
#6 – Cashing out retirement funds
I told you some of these were embarrassing and this one might top that list. After Jess decided to leave work to stay home with our boys, she had a couple of retirement accounts floating around from two different employers. For one employer, they kept changing accounts and I would constantly get letters mentioning the account was transitioning to a new plan sponsor. I was having a hard time getting access to these accounts so the money was sitting in a money market fund (this could be a whole separate point in this top 10 list). I got frustrated and since we were trying to pay off debt, we ended up cashing these out. Granted, it did go towards our debt that had interest accruing so that was a plus. However, we ended up paying income tax on the distribution as well as a 10% penalty for early withdrawal. As Dave Ramsey says, that is “stupid tax.”
#7 – Buying a car I had no business buying
In December 2014 as Jess and I were nearing the end of paying off our student loans, I bought a used Lincoln MKX. It was nice. Really nice. Leather heated seats, a moon roof, and an awesome sound system. Here is the problem. I had no business buying this car since I had a perfectly functioning Nissan Sentra with less than 50,000 miles on it. While the Lincoln was used and we paid cash for it, it still cost us $12,000 after we turned in the Sentra. That could have been $12,000 to get out of debt earlier or $12,000 to build up an emergency fund or $12,000 to save for retirement or $12,000 to save towards the kids’ college fund or $12,000 to go on vacation for a few years…you get the point.
According to Edmunds.com, the average monthly payment on a new vehicle in the US is $479. Ouch. If someone is struggling with debt and/or getting control of their monthly expenses, this is often the first area I recommend taking a look to cut back. You won’t miss your car as much as you think you will. I ended up selling the Lincoln MKX 6 months after I bought it (more ‘stupid tax’ to pay). In turn, I purchased a used Nissan Altima with 87,000 miles from my mother and father-in-law. After selling the Lincoln MKX and purchasing the Altima, the difference became our last student loan payment!
#8 – Opening a Lowe’s credit card
As with many store credit cards, we got sucked in by the 5% savings. The problem was that by having that card, we eventually decided to do a kitchen remodel that we probably would have waited on if we didn’t have the card. We could have saved up to pay for it in cash within 4-5 months but we got the itch. We ended up paying it off within a few months of the remodel being finished but still had to pay some interest we wouldn’t have had to otherwise pay.
#9 – Waiting to have a budget
This one is pretty simple yet we, like many others, didn’t have a budget in place for some time to plan and track our income and expenses each month. We were not outspending our income (which was good) but quickly realized it is a WHOLE new world to prioritize and strategize where our income should be going each month rather than reacting to where it went. What was the result for us when we decided to get serious about a monthly budget? Freeing up approximately $2,000 per month that was able to pay off our debts and then fund an emergency fund.
#10 – Misunderstanding about the priority of giving
While Jess and I were constantly giving throughout our journey to pay off $200K in debt, the giving was an afterthought. After all, we had other ‘priorities’ to take care of. In hindsight, this is laughable considering we created those ‘priorities.’ When we started making this a priority by giving the first % of our income, something magical happened. Our hearts changed towards doing this. We were humbled with what we had been given to us rather than trying to chase more. If giving is important to you, make it the first thing you do and budget off of the rest. For example, if you want to give away 10% of your income, set your budget off of 90% of your pay. Regardless of your religious beliefs, giving before spending really puts things into perspective.
Your Financial Homework is to take action on at least one thing based on this list. Whether it is making sure you have adequate term life insurance in place, putting together a will, or putting the pen to paper to create a monthly budget, we all have room to improve upon something. Take that one step today and share your progress.
