Day: November 2, 2023

On this episode, sponsored by Pyrls, Lan Ho, PharmD, Founder of Fat Miilk, shares her journey going from pharmacist to full-time entrepreneur featured on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars.

Episode Summary

Joining us this week on the YFP Podcast is Lan Ho, PharmD, Founder of Fat Miilk Vietnamese Coffee Company based in Chicago, Illinois. Tune in as we dive into her career journey in pharmacy before she shares why she started Fat Miilk, what she learned after appearing on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars, the most important thing she’s learned about herself since starting the business, and what lies ahead for Fat Miilk in the coming years. We discuss every step of Lan’s incredible journey to full-time entrepreneurship which began with an unexpected furlough from a retail pharmacy position in in 2020. We explore the rewards available when you are willing to take a risk, the biggest areas of growth she has experienced along the way, and why she is choosing a clicks-to-bricks approach to building her business.

About Today’s Guest

Lan Ho is a first-generation Vietnamese American who made a bold career change from pharmacist to beverage entrepreneur after being furloughed during the pandemic. She pivoted to pursue her dream and successfully launched Fat Miilk – Chicago’s first Vietnamese CPG coffee company. The brand saw instant global recognition when Bon Appetit listed Fat Miilk on their “Highly Recommend” list. Fat Miilk can be found in publications, including Eater, TimeOut, Thrillest, Roast Magazine, and more. Lan is recognized as a thought leader in consumer branding, customer experience, CPG, and the coffee industry. She was recently a finalist on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars on FOX network, where she represented her brand, leadership, and entrepreneurial story. Lan is currently expanding Fat Miilk’s reach through e-commerce and with Chicago’s first Vietnamese coffee bar showcasing a full cultural experience. She aims to inspire more minority representation in mass media, entrepreneurship, and executive roles.

Key Points From the Episode

• Introducing Lan Ho, PharmD, Founder of Fat Miilk Vietnamese Coffee Company.
• Her start in pharmacy fuelled by her parent’s goals for her education and career.
• Why it is so important to embark on self-discovery work before committing to a career.
• What motivated Lan to start Fat Miilk, the first Vietnamese CPG company in Chicago.
• Benefits and challenges of entering a saturated industry. 
• How Fat Miilk is merging two industries together.
• What it means to protect your energy as an entrepreneur.
• Lan’s experience on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars and what she learned about herself.
• The rewards of taking up space and being willing to take a risk. 
• Feedback Lan received from experts on the show. 
• How the creative agency, Truffl, challenged every branding decision behind Fat Miilk. 
• How Lan’s 2020 furlough led her to take the plunge into entrepreneurship.
• The biggest areas of growth and learning while transitioning into entrepreneurship.
• The clicks and bricks business approach that Lan is adopting for the product. 
• Engaging customers to make a difference in climate change.

Episode Highlights

“If you hit on that unique proposition, you will stand out and you will win big.” — @iamlanho [0:10:17]

“In entrepreneurship, you have to protect your energy, especially in the beginning.” — @iamlanho [0:14:54]

“Do an audit about what you’re telling people and until you’re at a place to invite their opinions or their feedback into your life, keep it to yourself. Do yourself that favor.” — @iamlanho [0:17:09]

“When you transition from you know, going from a corporate structure into anything on your own, you are the corporate structure. A lot of people don’t know that.” — @iamlanho [0:36:02]

“[Having] their online presence but they also have this in-person on-the-ground brand experience [which is] so necessary for an emerging market.” — @iamlanho [0:40:07]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• Lan Ho on LinkedIn
• Lan Ho on X
• Lan Ho on Instagram
• Fat Miilk Vietnamese Coffee
• Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars
• Truffl
• Pyrls
• YFP Planning: Fee-Only Financial Planning for Pharmacists
• YFP Disclaimer
• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00.8] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrick here, and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I welcome pharmacist turned entrepreneur, Lan Ho, founder of Fat Miilk Vietnamese Coffee Company that’s based in Chicago, Illinois. We discuss her career journey in pharmacy, why she started Fat Miilk, what she learned after appearing in the finale of Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars, the most important thing she’s learned about herself since starting the business, and what lies ahead for Fat Miilk in the coming years. 

Let’s hear a brief message from today’s sponsor, Pyrls, and then we’ll jump into my interview with Lan.

[SPONSOR MESSAGE]

[0:00:38.3] JW: This is Justin Woods from the YFP Team with a quick message before the show. If you’re tired of relying on shared passwords or spending hundreds of dollars for drug information, we’ve got great news for you. Today’s podcast sponsor, Pyrls, is changing the game for pharmacy professionals. Pyrls offers top drug summaries, clinical teaching points, a drug interaction checker, calculators, and guideline reviews, all in one user-friendly resource.

They also recently added free weekly quizzes to test your Pharmacotherapy knowledge. Whether you’re on your web browser or accessing the mobile app, Pyrls has got you covered. Visit pyrls.com, that’s P-R-Y-L-S.com, to get access to more than 25 free Pharmacotherapy charts to get you started. Upgrade your drug information resources today with Pyrls, don’t miss out on this game-changing resource.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:01:33.3] TU: Lan, welcome to the show.

[0:01:34.9] LH: Hi, happy to be here.

[0:01:36.8] TU: Well, it’s an honor to have you. I ran across your entrepreneurial journey after a former student of mine reached out and said, “Hey, you’ve got to check out this pharmacist turned entrepreneur, she’s going to be on the final of Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars.” Of course, I said, “Heck yeah, pharmacist, entrepreneur, I’ll be following that.”

[0:01:55.1] LH: Yes.

[0:01:55.2] TU: As I learn more about your story, I was fascinated with the work that you’ve been doing, why you’ve gotten into this area of work, and I wanted to introduce it to our community as well. And so, we’re going to spend most of our time on your entrepreneurial journey but let’s start with your career in pharmacy. What drew you into the profession, where did you go to school, and what area of practice did you find yourself in after graduation?

[0:02:18.5] LH: Yeah, absolutely. I’m happy to dive into all of that because it definitely is quite the story. My start in pharmacy, I will say, look, I probably did it for all the wrong reasons, right? And I say that because of multiple things. One, I come from a family, both my parents are Vietnam refugees, right? So, they are always pushing us to go for that really secure and stable career path, and the only thing that they really know is education is the kind of the only way to do it, right? 

And so, you know, me and my siblings were all in healthcare and I think when you’re at a young age and you don’t have a plan B and you didn’t grow up having role models and people to show you that there are other ways to kind of live life and go about your careers, the only thing that we really knew was to go to school and do something that’s secure and stable and get that degree, right?

So, if I had a backup plan, if I kind of knew what I wanted to do, I’m sure I could have you know, really posed a really good argument to my parents and be like, “This is what I want to do instead, I want to start my business, I want to go into the creative arts, I want to – you know, all these things” but I didn’t have a plan B, right? So, I was easily persuaded into doing something that my parents wanted me to do and at the time, that was pharmacy, you know? 

Pharmacy in Vietnam is considered like the gold standard for like one of the best career paths and just lifestyle and so, I really conform to that, made my dad really, really happy. The only pharmacist in the family and you know I was good at school. I’m good at learning, I’m good at teaching myself anything and I excelled in education and in higher education and went there, got my pharmacy degree, and had a great relationship with the district manager at Walgreens and I always thought I was going to do a fellowship but during my rotation…

[0:04:14.2] TU: Interesting.

[0:04:14.6] LH: Yeah. During my rotation with the district manager at Walgreens, we just vibed, it was all about relationships, right? And we just had a really, really good time together, really loved that he offered me a job after I graduated and so, that’s how I ended up in community pharmacy.

[0:04:32.3] TU: I love that story man, and I think it’s so important that we share, we all share our collective stories, right? You know, I think sometimes, going into pharmacy school, which could be true of medicine and I’m sure other health professions, you know sometimes, there’s the internal motivation, sometimes there’s external motivations, sometimes people have external motivations that you know over time, they fall in love with the professional work that they’re doing, other times, they don’t, and there is no one right path, right? 

And I think for everyone that’s on their own journey just as you are, just as I am, so important to do that self-discovery work and really, to find the path, you know, that’s most meaningful and I think as your story highlights so well, you know very rarely is one’s career path a straight line, right? I think sometimes in pharmacy school, I graduated in 2008 and I often felt the pressure and I can tell even graduates today, they feel this pressure that you know, there’s graduation, you take that first job or fellowship or residency, and that you know, from there on, it’s going to be one straight path.

And my career has looked like left turns, right turns, some straightaways, right? But – and there’s a lot more to go and I think as your journey, you know, that is the case as well and just a lot of wisdom there to share and I think as you continue on your entrepreneur journey, perhaps this is just one of many twists and turns that you’re going to take, you know, throughout your career. So, let’s talk about that entrepreneur or business journey. Give us the information on your company Fat Miilk. What is the product and offering and why did you start it?

[0:06:03.0] LH: Yeah. So, Fat Miilk is the first Vietnamese CPG and for people who don’t know, CPG stands for consumer packaged goods, we’re the first Vietnamese CPG coffee company in Chicago, right? And so, a lot of people don’t know is that you know, Vietnam is the number one producer of Robusta in the world. We’re a huge player in the coffee industry and what you’re seeing now is just a wave of first-generation Vietnamese entrepreneurs who are really showcasing that and really trying to put Vietnamese coffee on the map, right?

I think prior to like, the last couple of years, like one or two years ago, you could not walk into any major retailer, Walmart, Whole Foods, whatever, and find Vietnamese Robusta beans on the shelf. It just didn’t exist. And so, I’m really playing in an emerging category right now and we’ll say, prior to launching Fat Miilk, you know I’ve conceptualized this idea forever. You know, Vietnamese coffee in my household was a staple. 

You know, we grew up on that stuff and I just always thought, “You know, why do you have to go to a Vietnamese restaurant? Like a pho restaurant or a bánh mì restaurant to really get Vietnamese coffee?” and sometimes you don’t even know if it’s really Vietnamese coffee, right? It’s just – it’s just the way that it’s you know, presented and so, I saw this opportunity, not just to use Vietnamese coffee as the medium to what I want to present out there but also, like, if you look at what I’ve built with Fat Miilk, you know, you see so much of the story there.

So much of like, the story of the people behind the bean and just the culture, right? And that’s really what I enjoy. I really enjoy creative writing, creative strategy, and I love connecting with the consumer and that’s where I thrive. So, long story short, Fat Miilk is a coffee company, we sell whole-bean coffee. I import it directly from Vietnam and we have some really other exciting product lines that we are pushing forward as well but on top of that, we’re building out our first Chicago flagship storefront at the same time.

[0:08:07.6] TU: Ooh, that’s awesome.

[0:08:09.1] LH: Yeah, a lot going on.

[0:08:10.9] TU: And we’re going to talk about that as we head towards the end kind of, what is the next stage, where do you see the future and I think that’s obviously an important part of that and I hope our listeners will go check out what you’re doing. I’ll link to your website, fatmiilk.com. That has two “I’s” Just so people know as they’re looking that up. Please grab some coffee, you know, you’ve got some other product on there as well.

My wife and I have been working through a five-pound bag over the last few weeks, it’s delicious and I would just highly encourage you know, our listeners to check it out, and I will say, Lan, one of the things that really stood out to me is I did some background research on what you’re building is the strength that you have in storytelling and branding and marketing. You mentioned that creative pursuit, that is obvious in the work that you’re doing. So – 

[0:08:52.5] LH: I appreciate that.

[0:08:52.9] TU: You know, lean into that strength. I know you are but it’s really an incredible one to watch. Now, I’ve got some questions. You know, coffee, beverage, it’s a big industry, right? And for those that watch Shark Tank, you know that the Sharks are quick to object to beverage companies knowing that this is a crowded space. So, I think you answered this in part when you talked about the Vietnamese heritage of this product. But tell us more about what makes this product unique, especially as you think about coffee and beverage being such a big industry.

[0:09:22.7] LH: Yeah. You know, I think when people see such a big industry, they get a little intimidated by it, right? And there’s some major players in the coffee industry but I almost see it as an opportunity, right? Like, I’m not reinventing the wheel here, I’m playing in an industry that already has demand and it’s actually pandemic-proof. Like, if you look at coffee industry, I think it drastically increased during the pandemic, right? 

And so, this is something that people see as a daily necessity, it’s a commodity. I mean, you know, and if you’re able to enter a market that already is going to stay you know, and create something that’s niche but also, unique you can really, really stand out, right? So, when I look at really saturated markets, even in pharmacy, it’s community pharmacies or independent pharmacies, there’s always a way. 

There’s always a way and if you hit on that unique proposition, you will stand out and you will win big, okay? And so, I think we’re playing within the coffee industry at large, which is like a 130-billion-dollar worldwide industry by the way but the Vietnamese coffee category is new in the US, right? Obviously, you know, overseas and in Vietnam and Australia and a lot of the other neighboring countries, Vietnamese coffee is very known and popular. 

But here in the US, I have an opportunity to really be a first mover and I think that if done right and you do it with intentionality, you do it with heart and you do it with community, that to me, you can create a legacy brand out of that and that’s what I intend to do.

[0:11:05.0] TU: Yeah, I love that, right? Because I think that you know, in this example exists in pharmacy, you’re spot on. You know, we tend to speak in generalities, right? You know, independent pharmacy is dead, community pharmacy is changing or evolving but there’s niche markets, right? And you talked about, in your space, you know, obviously, there’s a niche. You know, what’s your differential advantage, what are you bringing that’s different?

Obviously, you know, you are in what you’re building and I think that’s so important, you know, that we kind of get away from some of those generalities, especially speaking about business, and really trying to figure out, “Okay, what’s the problem that we’re trying to solve, what’s the opportunity and how can I bring something that’s different or new or unique or serves a niche that may be otherwise hasn’t been served as it relates to this product?”

[0:11:46.4] LH: Absolutely. I think that’s just business in general, right? Like, you can’t go into a market and just do something that everybody else is doing, right? That’s not good business. You have to look at the market and see what you can bring to the table and what makes you unique and I will say with Fat Miilk when I look at – I will say, right now, being a Vietnamese coffee company is and can be enough, right? Because we are so new to the market. 

But I will say, that’s not what I – that’s not the angle that I’m taking. What I bring with Fat Miilk is a lifestyle, you know? And so, when you look at it, and we’re launching our new website actually on November 15th in this whole Fat Miilk 2.0 situation is, I really been able to capture the last, first, you know, two years of Fat Miilk, analyze what was working and what wasn’t working, and really determine who we are and who we’re not and got down to the roots and realized we need to exist for more reasons than to just make Vietnamese coffee accessible.

And so, when you look at Fat Miilk and you know, our intention to expand, what really makes us different is a whole lifestyle approach to Vietnamese coffee but we’re also merging two industries together. There’s this streetwear, very hype culture that exists in you know, a lot of sneaker and streetwear brands into a food and beverage company, you know? And so, at the core of all of that is this hustle mentality with a lot of humility, right? And that’s how I grew up. 

You know, both of my parents coming here and that’s something that I always wanted to honor, like, I don’t want to be this incredibly luxury brand but I’m going to be something that’s relatable to the times, right? And at the end of the day, me going from pharmacy to this was something that was so intentional about taking a bet on yourself, right? Which then everyone says, and really doing it with humility and doing it with intentionality, with value at its core.

[0:13:42.5] TU: Yeah, I think that’s really interesting, Lan because I think that concept, you know, the hustle mentality, the taking a bet on yourself, I think a lot of pharmacists struggle with that, you know? And part of that goes to – you know, we often talk about it in the show. The golden handcuffs of you got a doctorate degree, you got a six-figure income, you got USD 200,000 of student loans.

[0:14:00.1] LH: Yeah, yeah. 

[0:14:01.0] TU: It’s hard to take that risk, it’s hard to you know, have that hustle mentality when obviously, you’re making that kind of income and I think you know, as you alluded to, that goes back to in part, your upbringing and some of that entrepreneurial experience that you obviously have, and one of the things I want to dive into a little bit deeper, and you mentioned at the top of this episode was some of the family impact on your journey, not only the pharmacy but obviously on entrepreneurship as well and you’ve talked about publicly on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars. 

I’ve also seen it referenced in other articles that have featured your story that you didn’t share your business pursuits with your family until after you have launched the business for some time. One article I read said, “Long story short, I started an entire company, pretending to be a full-time pharmacist and later came clean on national television while competing for Gordon Ramsay’s partnership.” Tell us more about that.

[0:14:52.3] LH: Yes. Look, in entrepreneurship, I say this over and over and over again, you have to protect your energy, right? And especially in the beginning. Look, Vietnamese coffee, I went from being a pharmacist to you know, dealing lattes and so for my parents, you know, especially my dad, he didn’t understand that and for me, I was like, “I don’t think you need to understand it right now, you know?”

Like, I think when a lot of people have their opinions and tell you, you know, “Oh, I like that idea, I don’t like that idea, why are you doing this?” It’s exhausting and it’s taxing too. Like just the emotional capacity that you have and the mental capacity, and when you’re starting a business, you need your best self, you know? And there are just so many moments where I would kind of try to bring it up, you know?

And kind of talk about Fat Miilk and how like coffee, there’s this huge opportunity in Vietnamese coffee in the US, blah-blah-blah, like all this stuff and I was just presented with so much resistance, you know? And that to me was something that was so evident, that as I’m building Fat Miilk, I have to build it to a stage where there is no turning back, you know? And so, I was going to do it no matter what because I mean, look, we don’t have to go into it but I was a pretty miserable person when I was a pharmacist.

And I just knew that this was not the career choice for me and that I was going to do something creatively and I was going to do it without my parents and that was a big secret that I kept to myself and a lot of it was for me, more than anything because if I knew I invited that kind of energy into just the building stage of Fat Miilk, I would have had to not only find the strength to keep going but find the strength to resist that feedback, right? 

Like, that negative energy that I just did not need in my life while I was trying to make something happen and it all comes from a good place. I don’t – you know, the people who tell you, who are going to challenge you the most are the people that probably love you the most, right? So, there’s no ill feelings there. It’s just, for me, it was so important, and I always encourage people, watch – do an audit about what you’re telling people and until you’re at a place to invite their opinions or their feedback into your life, keep it to yourself. Do yourself that favor.

[0:17:22.1] TU: Yeah, you have to protect your energy. I love that. Such words of wisdom, you know, that you shared there and so important. I got that vibe, right? When I watched the show and I followed some of your journey, read some articles, I got the vibe that it was coming from a place of love and you know, I think that for the entrepreneurs that are listening, like, they know that well around the need to protect their energy. 

It’s so important and I think you also shared very well that also, you know, when you think about who is around you and some of the energy that you’re surrounding yourself with and you know, there’s a place to be challenged, certainly but especially early in that journey, you know, the momentum that you’re sustaining. You talked about, you know, the hustle mentality, the energy that you’re going to need to sustain that to see through the vision and the idea that you have, so important, especially early on in the journey.

Let’s talk about your experience on Gordon Ramsay’s Food Stars. What an incredible opportunity, and for those that are listening that are not familiar with the show, can you just give us a quick, general premise of what that show is all about?

[0:18:22.0] LH: Yes. So, Gordon Ramsay’s food stars, it is his brand new show, season one. It’s on FOX but essentially, he invited 15 of the most promising food and beverage entrepreneurs to compete for USD 250,000 of his angel investment, yeah.

[0:18:41.2] TU: And the 15, one thing I was wondering and maybe this was mentioned early in the show and I missed it but how did you get selected as one of those 15, was there an audition process or what did that look like?

[0:18:53.3] LH: So, me, personally they reached out to me on Instagram.

[0:18:56.2] TU: Oh, cool.

[0:18:56.8] LH: So, I got recruited to be on the show and there’s a casting director who reached out and said, “Hey, let me know if you’d be interested in this show. I think you’ll be a good fit.” And so, I – you know, for me, I thought it was fake news from the beginning. I like literally went to Gordon Ramsay’s Instagram and saw that he was promoting the show as well. So, that’s when I knew it was legit.

So, there is – you know, there was an application, you know, kind of on the Internet that you could go and apply. I think only one person out of the entire cast actually applied and got the position – or you know, got on the show. Everyone else was recruited.

[0:19:34.1] TU: Okay, that was cool. I was wondering about the process to get there and we’re not going to spill all of what happened, we’re going to make people go watch it if they haven’t watched it. We’ll just say that you were in the final three, we’ll leave it at that. One of the things I’m really curious about is you know, what you see on TV and obviously the thing that you experienced, I know those are two very, very different things.

And you know I’m curious, as you reflect back on that experience, what are one or two things that really stand out to you? Of things that you look back and say, “Wow, because of that experience, I learned this about myself.” What really were some of the takeaways that you had from that show?

[0:20:10.6] LH: Yeah. One of the biggest things that people tell me that I – maybe I didn’t know about me, I mean, I really didn’t know this about myself was how poised I am, right? That is probably – so, I learned a lot about myself based on how other people perceive me and that was like, probably the number one feedback when people would DM me, comment on my Instagram, Facebook, send me messages, emails, everything, they were just like, “We’re such a big fan of you, we felt like you, you know, held it together, you’re very professional, very poised.”

And then, you’re just like, “Wow, I didn’t know that I actually am like that” you know? So, you start to kind of think like, “You know, this is how I present myself and unknowingly, how people see in business, right?” So, that was kind of something that I learned about myself just being on TV and I think, another thing is that you have to take risks, right? I remember when they reached out to me, I had no intention on being on television, and I may have unlocked some other opportunities because of that.

But I remember telling myself, “Look, if you’re going to do this Fat Miilk thing and you’re going to build this to be what, you know, a global company or whatever, the potential you think it is, you have to go out there and put it all on the line.” You have to take that risk, right? And I remember telling myself that this is what it takes when you want to turn that big corner in your career, your life, whatever it is that you’re doing, you got to go out swinging and you have to be able to step up to it when that opportunity comes along and that was not only evident in some of the challenges on the show where I really took up space, right?

[0:21:53.0] TU: Yes.

[0:21:54.3] LH: This was going on the show in it of itself once an example of that and I think sometimes, a lot of entrepreneurs probably – maybe they reach out to so many people seeing if, “Hey, do you want to go on the show, do you want to do this?” And a lot of people are like, “Oh no, me on television? No.” You know?

And so, a lot of people, I think a lot of businesses probably turned that opportunity down, you know? And I think for me, the biggest thing was it does pay off when you not only stay prepared but you are prepared and you’re willing to flex that preparation, you know? Because I had one month to leave my life in Chicago and go to LA to film this thing and that’s exactly what happened and made it all the way to the finale like you said. So, I mean, you know it paid off.

[0:22:41.7] TU: Yeah, and I think just saying yes to that opportunity, you know, I think sometimes we see those opportunities, we’re like, “Oh, it would be so nice, right? If I had that kind of break.” But I think you’re point is a really good one. You have to have a willingness to say yes, you entered into an unknown territory. I’m sure there are fears and anxieties, you know, surrounding that, and just what you shared in the wisdom of taking up space, right? 

I think a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with that, I would say, pharmacists, entrepreneurs, you would struggle more, which is that concept of taking up space not only by being on the show but then, within, you know, the show and the interactions, making sure that you’re taking up the space that you need as well to grow and hopefully, you know, there’s a promotion, there’s other opportunities.

But what I’m also hearing from you which I love is the personal growth that happened to the experience because I firmly believe that often, the ceiling, how high, how far a business can go is directly correlated to the mindset of the leader of that organization, which is you, the founder, and the CEO, and what I’m hearing is this vast expansion of the mindset of what you believe is possible and where you can take this brand and where you could take this business, so I love that. 

I recall Lan, one of the experts and I can’t remember his name, I think he was from maybe Albertsons, Wholefoods, you can point me back in the right direction that I would say he was somewhat critical of the branding and the disconnect that he was seeing in terms of the coffee and the product being in a carton, maybe somewhat around the naming as well. 

So, refresh us on what happened there, and then I’m just curious as you reflect back on that, how did you take that feedback in the moment, and then what have you done or what have you processed since that feedback as well? 

[0:24:25.4] LH: Yeah, absolutely. So, in the finale, you know Gordon Ramsay brought on two experts, both of them very well-versed in retail distribution and CPG, right? And so, one of the biggest feedback that I got was the confusion of our coffee beans being in a milk carton and the name of the company being Fat Miilk. I will say this is nothing I don’t already know, right? In the case that I launched the company in 2020 and we did so many pop-ups. 

I mean, we did pop-ups all over Chicago. I mean, anywhere and everywhere, you know, gyms, Chinese restaurants, parks, everywhere. I mean, and we got all of that feedback, right? And people would say the same things you know? And I definitely took all of that into consideration and a lot of people don’t know that when I was filming for the show, I was already looking to address those concerns and I was also negotiating the lease for our first storefront, right? 

So, I was doing all of that because we all are there and we all have businesses, that’s the whole premise of the show is that we’re all entrepreneurs. We’re all still working on our business, we still have to keep the business afloat while we’re filming for this show in full anxiety mode. I mean, it was like a whole flex from mental, emotional, everything, physical, and I will say you know, those were – it was definitely confirming when he gave me that feedback that this was definitely something that we needed to address. 

And so when I came back from the show, you know I found my dream creative agency who was going to help me rebrand the entire business, right? And I am someone that has incredible intentionality maybe to a detriment sometimes, you know? I want to understand every decision we make with intention, like if someone tells me, “Oh, these are our brand colors” I want to know why.

[0:26:19.5] TU: Yep. 

[0:26:19.8] LH: You know, like it has to have a reason, it has to have some kind of intention as to why you made that decision and it can’t just be because you like it. In my opinion, you’re missing out in a huge opportunity, right? And so a lot of people don’t know that you know, I named the company Fat Miilk because when people think of Vietnamese coffee, the most popular way to consume Vietnamese coffee is with a little bit of sweetened condensed milk, right? 

And so when people say, “Oh, have you had Vietnamese coffee before?” they’re like, “Oh, yeah. I don’t like it, it’s too sweet” or it’s like, “Oh yeah, I do love it. It’s sweet and this and this and that” and I’m like that’s just one version to enjoy Vietnamese coffee but Vietnamese coffee is just beans from Vietnam, right? And it is a very bold nutty chocolatey two times the caffeine content type of bean that when you add a little bit of sweetened condensed milk to it, it just is the perfect balance. 

So, when I named the company Fat Miilk, not only do we intend to do some exciting things with condensed milk but also I get to educate people like, “Look, the reason why it’s called Fat Miilk is because you probably think sweetened condensed milk equates to Vietnamese coffee, right? But let me tell you why it’s not” and so I need to educate consumers and tell a broader story as to why Vietnamese coffee is what it is. 

And so when I came back from the show and hired on Truffl, they’re an amazing creative agency out in LA, I had them challenge me on every single decision I have made up into that point, right? And I said, “Challenge me, why did I name it Fat Miilk? Why is the logo a water buffalo? Why the colors, why the milk carton, why this, why that?” And if I didn’t have a good answer for that now we needed to come up with the solution, you know? 

And so yeah, and so you know, we’re about to launch our Fat Miilk 2.0 is what I call it because I had a huge opportunity and a huge blessing to kind of redirect this whole brand in a way where now it’s viable to scale. It’s really good logistically, you know when it comes to complexity. You know just the packaging itself, it’s ready to grow, and just use all of that feedback over the last couple of years now put the company in a position to really play in the category. 

[0:28:37.8] TU: Yeah, and what I love about that, my takeaway there is your openness and receptiveness to be challenged, right? I think so often especially as a founder, right? It’s your baby, it’s your product and there’s moments where we have to set ego aside, right? And acknowledge and recognize like, “Hey, we’ve done an awesome job of getting the product to this point. I started this literally from an idea to a product that people are willing to pay for.” 

That is an amazing accomplishment, an amazing accomplishment, and then to say, “Okay, next level” you talked about you know, hiring an agency. You obviously have input and feedback and you know, it sounds like there is some consumer research going on there, probably formal and informal, and then to go work with an agency and say, “Hey, challenge me, challenge me on everything that I’ve done” and not in a egotistical, “I’m going to tell you why.” 

But in a, “I’m going to make sure that this is the best product that it can be and if there is a way that we can make this better I’m open, I’m receptive to that” and that is beautiful and that is hard to do, very hard to do. 

[0:29:40.9] LH: It is. It is and let me tell you, when I made the decision everyone was against me. My fractional CFO was against me, my team was totally against it. They were just like, “No Lan, we love it, we love the water buffalo, we love the carton, and look, it was a success in the sense that it got the attention of Gordon Ramsay.” You know, if you watch the finale, our old brand is plastered all over our pop-up and you know, that episode. 

And so like, it is beautiful but when you think about it from a business perspective, it didn’t put us in a position to really play, right? It was complicated, it was confusing, it was so many things, and so I will say you know, everyone was pushing against me to keep it the way that things were and I had to challenge everyone and be like, “Look, I’m making this decision. We need to address these issues because if we expand and we’re in Iowa and Nebraska, are we going to be able to it on the show and have and communicate exactly who we are as a brand and without us being there?” 

“If I can’t say that with our current brand though, we need to make some changes” and there were days, there were days, let me tell you, where I was genuinely depressed. Like I remember when we made the decision to nix our logo, which is a water buffalo, the national animal of Vietnam but it has no relevance to coffee because coffee is not grown in the water, by the way, that was a really dark day for me. 

Because I was like, “What have I been doing this whole time?” Like you know, I feel like I’ve built this brand, people really love it, they resonate with the water buffalo, it kind of looks like the Chicago Bulls, you know with the [inaudible 0:31:24.0] It was this whole thing and people were genuinely sad about it and I was sad about it and I had to stick to my gut and be like, “We’re letting it go.” 

[0:31:33.6] TU: Yeah, yeah. 

[0:31:34.1] LH: It’s not going to be our logo anymore, you know? And so that was really hard for me during the rebrand but I stand by what it looks like now and I know it can go the distance. 

[0:31:44.3] TU: Well, and that’s the key, go the distance, right? I mean, I think what you’re talking about there the vision, you know I think about me as a consumer in Columbus, Ohio going to the coffee shelf like that’s what you’re talking about next level, right? 

[0:31:54.5] LH: Yes. 

[0:31:54.9] TU: You are not talking about your inner circle or people that are you know, attached to the brand and from Jump Street and there’s risk in any one of those decisions obviously but you know, I think that you’re talking about, “Hey, how do I take this to the next level?” and the bigger vision that you can see, so much there to takeaway as you shared that. 

[0:32:14.2] LH: Yes. 

[0:32:15.0] TU: Let me go – I want to share with our listeners and talk about the timeline of what you’ve built because it’s really incredible in a short period of time. 

[0:32:22.1] LH: Thank you. 

[0:32:23.0] TU: So, April 2019, you incorporated, you got the trademark in July 2020, you are furloughed from your pharmacy job. September 2020, just two months after that furlough, you launched Fat Miilk as a brand, December 2020 you secured wholesale partnerships. April 2022, season one of Ramsay, Gordon Ramsay’s food show starts. August 2022, lease signed for the storefront, we’ll talk about that here in a moment. August 2023, you launched Kickstart. 

I mean, we’re talking about a very brief period of time where a lot was happening and if I am following correctly, you were furloughed from your pharmacy job and that really accelerated the growth of your business but the idea had been around prior to that furlough. Am I following that correctly? 

[0:33:06.1] LH: One hundred percent. 

[0:33:07.0] TU: Okay. 

[0:33:07.6] LH: Yes. 

[0:33:08.3] TU: Awesome and you – 

[0:33:08.9] LH: That some people will say – just to quickly plug in there, people say, “How did you launch this company in two months?” It’s like I’ve been conceptualizing, which is the longest part by the way, when you’re thinking about how you’re going to do it, what it’s going to look like, and execute. I’ve been doing that for years, you know? And so when it came to the opportunity to actually put it in motion, that’s how we were able to launch in two months. 

Business, you know what I mean but like if I just thought about this in two months and launched it, I mean, that is – I just want to make that clear that you know, this was something that was brewing for a while. 

[0:33:41.2] TU: Do you think you would have pursued this regardless if the furlough happened? Would it have just been a delayed timeline? I’m curious to hear your reflection back on how much of the furlough was an accelerator or an initiator or you know, if you would have grown in that role or maybe pursued a fellowship industry pathway. Like is there a place where this idea maybe never sees the light of day or it would have just been maybe a little bit more down the road? 

[0:34:08.9] LH: Yeah, Fat Miilk was 100% going to happen. Yes, so 100%. I will say that furlough was the biggest blessing in my life because I told myself, “You know, once I get to this point I’m going to quit and go all in on Fat Miilk” and then that timeline started to get pushed back. “Once I get here, you know? I’m going to do that” and so that furlough was just like I took that as the sign, the universe telling me it is time to go, you know? 

And so, I think when I got furloughed I didn’t have a choice. It was I was furloughed, you know I had no choice but to make my dream come true as opposed to like go and look for another pharmacy job, you know? So that was a big sign for me and I ran with it. I saw that opportunity and I’m like, “This is it. This is the world telling me you need to go and do this” and so when they asked me to come back two months later I said, “No, I already launched it.” I already launched the company, so I’m just going to focus on this now, yeah. 

[0:35:08.1] TU: Lan, I’m curious as you think about all the different aspects involved in starting and growing a business, running a business, right? Marketing, sales, building a team, culture of the company, finances, distribution, supply chain management, when you think about all of the different pieces that you’ve been involved, what has been the area that’s had the biggest learning curve and growth for you over the past few years? 

[0:35:32.8] LH: Yeah, it’s a good question because I think everything has been a learning curve. I will say, just to transition from going from a very regulated structure and lifestyle with not only being a student in higher education for 10 years but then going into pharmacy to then going into entrepreneurship, that has always and still is a very big challenge in my life, right? I think when you transition from you know, going from a corporate structure into anything on your own, you are the corporate structure and a lot of people don’t know that, you know? 

They’re just like, “Wait, what am I supposed to do, you know?” Like you’ve been told, you know, I’ve been told exactly how my seasons look. You know, you have your fall semester, you have your spring semester, you have summer break, you know? And then from there, when you go to work, you have your schedule, you have your shifts, you have your you know, things that you know you can and cannot do, especially a very regulated industry like pharmacy. 

There is no creative flexes in there and so when I went from my entire life of living in structure to then going on and starting my own business, I had to wake up every day and sometimes I didn’t know what to do. It’s like, “Wait, you have so many things you need to do” and you have so many things you need to learn and you don’t actually know where you put your time and energy into what is going to convert for you the most. 

So, it’s so much trial and error in just learning, learning how to prioritize your days and sometimes, you don’t even move the needle an inch, right? Because you’re just like, “Okay, well, I guess I realize you know focusing on this email newsletter or what” you know, trying to cold call a bunch of other brands, it didn’t go anywhere but you have to keep trying and see and I think even until this moment, you know I still have to segment and learn that structure in my day that I thrived in corporate culture to then apply that to my own life. 

And being able to deliver and execute for my team and for the future and grow Fat Miilk and like you said earlier, you are your biggest asset to your company, you know? Like truly how you operate and how you structure your days and if you feel good about that day, you feel productive about how you structured that day, all of that is such a big influence in how your company ends up doing, right? 

And so, I always say like you, the only person that’s getting in the way is me, you know? I feel like I can teach it to myself, I can teach myself supply chain and customs and importing beans and all of these things but if I am not feeling it that day, that ultimately is my business is going to take a hit, you know? It’s like now you have to learn discipline to a T and that is the hardest thing. 

[0:38:24.6] TU: Yeah and I think to give yourself some grace like you know, you gave the example of like you can spend a day making cold calls or working on the newsletter and you’re like, “Hey, I thought that was going to be a high impact priority day where me as the founder and the CEO can move the needle most” and sometimes it’s not or you say, “Okay, that work, that didn’t work. Now, I’m going to bob, now I’m going to shift.” 

But giving yourself some grace in those moments of, “Yeah, maybe I didn’t tangibly move forward the business today but I learned something and I learned that hey, this doesn’t work or I’ve got to iterate” and you know I think sometimes, you know the wins need to be reveled in and enjoyed and celebrated but also there are those days, there are the seasons, there are the weeks where you’re grinding or you’re like, “I don’t even know where to start on the list of things to be done.” 

And like those moments, those seasons, those days are going to happen. They’re just going to happen and you know I think to recognize them and obviously, you’re speaking from experience there, it’s so important to give yourself grace in that season. 

[0:39:20.0] LH: Yes, that’s real. It’s real. 

[0:39:22.9] TU: As you think about the future of Fat Miilk, you’ve mentioned Fat Miilk 2.0 a couple of times, you mentioned at least once or twice getting ready to open a storefront. Tell us about what’s next for Fat Miilk in this 2.0 iteration and where you see the brand going here over the next couple of years. 

[0:39:39.8] LH: Yeah, absolutely. You know, we’re such at a pivotal time in the company right now in the sense that we had an opportunity to really restart the brand and do it with intention. A lot of brands don’t get to do that and not only that but we just had raising credibility from the Gordon Ramsay show, right? And so I’m really adopting this clicks and bricks business model. You know, if you look at businesses like Warby Parker and Outlaw, you know you have – they have their online presence but they also have this in-person on-the-ground brand experience, right? 

And I think that is so necessary for an emerging market and so, you’ll be seeing a lot of us double downing on our digital footprint but also expanding our community outreach, right? Through different storefronts throughout Chicago and expanding to major cities but also what’s really important to me is approaching Fat Miilk with the utmost respect for the farmers and the coffee industry, right? 

And if – you know, I don’t want to bore people with the history here but you know, just due to climate change, the Robusta bean is actually going to be the biggest shift in consumer just brands in general when it comes to coffee and what is going to be readily available, right? And so we have an opportunity to really be a huge player in the impact of climate change and I’m really looking into upcycling every single layer of the coffee bean itself because a lot of people don’t know what’s a cherry. 

So, there is a fruit around it and the seed in the middle is the actual coffee bean and so I’m working with farmers right now to see how we can upcycle parts of the pulp and the skin of the cherry to use in some of our other verticals and that’s been really exciting for me and maybe that’s the compounding part of pharmacy that I really enjoy and being able to take something and make something new out of it. 

So, that’s kind of the approach for Fat Miilk moving forward is having consumer experience in multiple channels but also doing something with the coffee cherry itself and having an impact on just the industry. 

[0:41:55.0] TU: And I think that connects so well to your strength that you talked about, you know, towards the beginning of the episode, which is your strength around the branding, the marketing, the creative side, the storytelling, right? Bringing the cup of coffee to individuals as an experience and I think we’ve come a long way as a consumer but I would argue we have more to go and you are obviously tapping into that. 

That you know, I think people, some people maybe just want a cup of coffee every morning they want to think about it but I think there is a big market of people that are very interested in where is this bean coming from and what is you know, the story of the farm, what is the story of the roaster and you know, how can this really come to be an experience and not just something that’s a functional part of the day that I don’t really think a whole lot about, right? 

[0:42:38.2] LH: Yeah, I absolutely agree, and I think a small part of people, I will say a minority group of people really, really geek out about that stuff but I think there is an opportunity for you know, mass appeal for people to care about that stuff. 

[0:42:52.8] TU: I agree. 

[0:42:53.2] LH: You have to do it, you have to do it with lifestyle. You have to do it where it’s a party and not a protest, right? Because climate change can very easily go into this protest mode, right? Where we’re not doing things right, we’re contributing to it like you know? And kind of playing this blame game but if you can create a brand where people just really resonate with you know, the packaging and what you’re doing.

The vibes you’re giving off, they naturally are inclined to care more about why you exist, and that is the approach that I am taking. I think a lot of brands go so far right or one way or the other about you know, going deep into climate change, going top of really, really using these big words and things that people get really bored about when it comes to the impact of the pulp and you know, just the coffee production and how that can impact just the industry and the you know, the world. 

And so, I think the best people to do it are brands who have a way to engage customers without them actually even knowing that they’re engaged. 

[0:43:58.1] TU: That is fantastic and this has been a real treat. I am so grateful for you coming on the show and sharing your journey and I’m really excited to follow what’s ahead. I have a feeling you’re just getting warmed up here. So, where is the best place that our listeners can go to follow your journey and learn more about what you’re building? 

[0:44:15.1] LH: Yeah, absolutely. We’re pretty active on social media. So, it’s you know Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all of that is @fatmiilk with two Is, so Fat Miilk. The best place to just get our coffee, experience the brand, we’ll always be fatmiilk.com, and then for people who are in Chicago or visiting Chicago, we are building up our Chicago flagship storefront and that is in uptown at the corner of Broadway and Arga. 

[0:44:42.4] TU: Awesome. Well, thank you so much again and when you decide to expand into Columbus, Ohio you have to let me know, Lan. 

[0:44:48.7] LH: Absolutely. 

[0:44:49.5] TU: Great market here as well but in all seriousness, thank you so much for coming on the show. 

[0:44:53.6] LH: Yes, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. 

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:44:56.1] JW: Hey, this is Justin again from the YFP Team. Thanks for tuning in to today’s podcast. If you’re a pharmacy professional, you know how crucial it is to have access to reliable drug information. That’s why we’re excited to tell you about Pyrls, today’s podcast sponsor. Gone are the days spending hundreds of dollars for access to drug information. Pyrls offers top drug summaries, clinical teaching points, a drug interaction checker, calculators, and guideline reviews, all in one user-friendly resource.

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[DISCLAIMER]

[0:45:50.3] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information on the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

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[END]

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