May 2022 – Your Financial Pharmacist

YFP 257: How This Pharmacist Helps Others Transform and Advance Their Practice to Have a Joyful Career

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How This Pharmacist Helps Others Transform and Advance Their Practice to Have a Joyful Career

In today’s episode, sponsored by Insuring Income, Dr. Kimber Boothe, PharmD, MHA talks about her career in health systems and the pharmaceutical industry, why she founded the Kimber Boothe Group, how she has monetized her expertise, and the lessons she’s learned from publishing her second book, ‘Pharmfluencers: The Inspiring Stories of Pharmacy Entrepreneurs.’

About Today’s Guest

Dr. Kimber Boothe, PharmD, MHA, is a pharmacist, healthcare leader, and entrepreneur with decades of experience in health systems and the pharmaceutical industry. Kimber is the founder and CEO of the Kimber Boothe Group where she helps pharmacists transform and advance practice to have a joyful engaging career.

She serves by providing coaching, consulting, and courses on:

Leadership & Career Development
Pharmacy Strategy & Innovation/Intrapreneurship
Pharmacy Entrepreneurship

She calls herself a Connector and a Pharmovator® and is the creator and author of several programs and books to guide pharmacists to success. CONNECTOR CORE™ is a program on the Connector Framework™ – Connectorability™, Connector Alignment™, Connector Foundation™, and Connector LIFE™. PHARMOVATION® is a course and system to Accelerate Your Pharmacy Career, Advocate for resources & Advance Pharmacy Practice, and PHARMFLUENCER™ is to Influence, Multiply, and Impact Pharmacy through Entrepreneurship.

Kimber previously led the pharmacy services for a four-hospital community health system where she drove innovative strategy for the pharmacy enterprise as the Chief Pharmacy Officer. She was also the Director of Clinical Pharmacy Services at Yale New Haven Health. She is a graduate of the University of Connecticut School of Pharmacy and Medical University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy, University of Phoenix Masters in Health Administration program, and completed residency training at Virginia Commonwealth University Medical College of Virginia Hospitals.

She is passionate about spending time on the right things to develop others and deliver strategic, focused results. Her motto is Pharmacy Can do More with More™ and her goal is to support the addition of 100 new health system pharmacy positions annually.

She is the recipient of the Connecticut Society of Health System Pharmacists Meritorious Achievement Award and her prior organization has been recognized with the Kentucky Society of Health System Pharmacists Innovative Health-System Pharmacy Practice Award.

Episode Summary

There are more methods to monetize your knowledge and expertise in the pharmacy industry than you think. All you have to do is pick one. In this episode, discussing the various options and sharing her personal pharmacy path from clinical roles to leadership and consulting is Dr. Kimber Boothe. Not only is Dr. Boothe the author of two books, Pharmovation: Advocate for Resources, Advance Pharmacy Practice, & Accelerate Your Pharmacy Career and Pharmfluencers: The Inspiring Stories of Pharmacy Entrepreneurs, but she’s also the founder of the Kimber Boothe Group, where she guides pharmacists towards a joyful, engaging, and lucrative career. Listeners will hear Dr. Boothe break down the differences between intrapreneurship and entrepreneurship and her experience with each. We discover the purpose behind her mission, learn about her personal growth goals as she moves from a solopreneur to filling staff positions and hear her thoughts on the importance of intentional career development. We also delve into the power of mindset with Dr. Boothe, who shares some actionable tips for shaping a positive mindset. Dr. Boothe also takes a moment to discuss the levels of relationships, types of coaching available to you as a pharmacist, and why she believes coaching is so important.

Key Points From This Episode

Dr. Boothe’s career path in pharmacy, from clinical roles to leadership and consulting.
Defining intrapreneurship versus entrepreneurship.
The pros of allowing for intrapreneurship within an organization.
Why Dr. Boothe believes pharmacy can do more with more.
The genesis of The Kimber Boothe Group and the problems it aims to solve.
Dr. Boothe’s growth goals.
The importance of being intentional about career development.
The purpose of Dr. Boothe’s book, Pharmfluencers, and the information it contains.
Ways to monetize your knowledge and expertise in the pharmacy industry.
The power of mindset and tips for shaping a positive mindset.
The four levels of relationships and why Dr. Boothe believes having a coach is critical.
Dr. Boothe’s transition from being a solopreneur to hiring and filling positions.

Highlights

“Intrapreneurship is the opportunity to be innovative at work within the safety and support of an organization. It’s basically that ability to do innovative things, but within that support where you have additional financial support. You don’t have the risk of having your own business.” — Kimber Boothe, PharmD, MHA [0:04:47]

“I’m really pro pharmacy. I want to advance the profession, whether it is through intrapreneurship or with entrepreneurs.” — Kimber Boothe, PharmD, MHA [0:27:51]

“Once you read [Pharmafluencers], you’re inspired. You can think through and find your ikigai, which is your passion and purpose, and tie that to something that can be monetized.” — Kimber Boothe, PharmD, MHA [0:31:59]

“Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. There’s not a thing to be waited for. It is a thing to be achieved.” — Kimber Boothe, PharmD, MHA [0:37:16]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here. Thank you for listening to the YFP podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I had the chance to welcome pharmacy leader, influencer, and entrepreneur Dr. Kimber Boothe, to talk about her career in health systems in the pharmaceutical industry, why she founded the Kimber Boothe Group, where she helps pharmacists transform and advance practice to have a joyful, engaging career, how she has been able to monetize her expertise and the lessons that she learned from publishing her second book, Pharmfluencer: The Inspiring Stories of Pharmacy Entrepreneurs.

Before we hear from today’s sponsor and then jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning, financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacies achieve financial freedom. Okay, let’s hear from today’s sponsor, and then we’ll jump into my interview with Kimber Boothe.

This week’s podcast episode is brought to you by Insuring Income. Insuring Income is your source for all things term, life insurance, and Own Occupation Disability Insurance. Insuring Income has a relationship with America’s top-rated Term life insurance and disability insurance company, so pharmacists like you can easily find the best solutions for your personal situation. To better serve you. Insuring Income reviews all applicable carriers in the marketplace for your desired coverage, support clients in all 50 states, and makes sure all of your questions get answered.

To get quotes and apply for Term life or disability insurance, see sample contracts from disability carriers or learn more about these topics. Visit insuringincome.com/yourfinancialpharmacist. Again that’s insuringincome.com/yourfinancialpharmacist.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:02:10] TU: Kimber. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:12] KB: Thank you, Tim. It’s great to be here.

[00:02:14] TU: So excited to have the opportunity to talk with you. Before we do a deep dive into the work that you’re doing today and much of your entrepreneurial journey as of late, talk to us about the path of your work in the pharmacy. Where that began, your interest in the profession as well as your career journey as a clinical specialist in the industry, and then as a health system leader?

[00:02:35] KB: Thank you, Tim. Well, I just, first of all, want to say that I do love our profession of pharmacy and I think, I want to thank you for everything you’re doing to support our profession’s financial health and support our innovation. I have had a wonderful career in pharmacy, starting mostly in hospitals and health systems and various clinical roles and as a cardiology specialist, moving up to leadership roles, ultimately into being assistant director, chief pharmacy officer for Community Health System, as well as being a director, system director of clinical services for an academic health system.

I also did spend ten years in the Pharma industry, so I had that experience, which I actually do owe a lot of my innovation and business savvy to the development I had in the Pharma industry where I did various roles in the medical affairs department. But was definitely drawn back to health systems, to what I referred to these days as my entrepreneurship activities, where I was promoting innovative practice, and bold strategic planning to advance pharmacy within an organization such as health systems.

[00:03:46] TU: Kim, I want to dive a little bit deeper on that, because I think there’s a lot of glorification that’s going on in entrepreneurship right now. We use that term a lot, and I think sometimes that can be interpreted as being synonymous with your own business or starting your own business, but entrepreneurship is a term where we’re starting to see grow, and I’m grateful for that. I think in the profession that term, I actually like a little bit more because I think it’s something that everyone can resonate with regardless of their role and the impact that they can have on the profession. So define for a moment what you mean by entrepreneurship and obviously, I think that’s something that we’re seeing. Lots of folks have opportunities within the profession that could be independent of owning their own business, right?

[00:04:26] KB: Absolutely. At the end of the day, entrepreneurship is wonderful. I know we’ll probably talk more about that as well, later on in this conversation, as I am now, what I like to call a full-time entrepreneur. But at the end of the day, most people are not going to be entrepreneurs, when you look at our total profession, 350,000 pharmacists in the US. intrapreneurship is that opportunity to be innovative at work within the safety and support of an organization. It is referred sometimes to as an entrepreneur on the job, or an entrepreneur in an organization. It’s basically that ability to do innovative things, but within that support where you have additional financial support, you don’t have the risk of having your own business.

That company is taking the risk, but there’s definitely some challenges because I know there are some organizations that are not open to these innovative ideas and you may not be able to implement something that you’re trying to do. But definitely the most successful organizations out there, whether they’re in health care or external to health care, those that allow for intrapreneurship’ to occur within their organization are more successful. Allowing the employees, team members to come up with ideas, allowing them time to work on those ideas while in the organization, helps their bottom line, helps them to be more successful, and ultimately to create more revenue for the company.

[00:06:00] TU: Yeah. I think that’s a great point. I mean, yes, it increases the bottom line increases of revenue, hopefully, pushes the innovation. I would argue also for the employee having that autonomy, having that space for creativity also probably ties to things like satisfaction in the workplace and retention and obviously can have a positive impact for employers as well, if they’re able to create that space to allow for entrepreneurship. Kimber, your motto is, “Pharmacy can do more with more with more.” What do you mean by that?

[00:06:30] KB: Well, I have to admit that definitely is my motto. Well, there is definitely times that we need to find efficiencies. I get very upset when I hear that phrase, do more with less. Yes, again, there’s times we can find efficiencies, use technology and be able to do more, but what I’ve seen in our profession is that we are underutilized and under-resourced for all of the massive amounts of unmet medication and health-related needs out there.

When I actually return to health systems after my ten years in PharmOn, I realized that the health system I was working at had grown immensely in terms of the number of patients, the number of services being provided, but the pharmacy team had really not grown in the same ratio. What I recognize is that we could be doing so much more, but we only had enough resources to focus on the most acute problems and whether that was on the acute care hospital side or even in the amateurish space where we had very few ambulatory pharmacists helping patients on an ongoing basis.

I came up with that motto and it’s definitely stuck with me and it’s really my mission and really why I left my intrapreneurship role to do entrepreneurship because my goal is to help create 100 new positions every year in pharmacy. When I think about some of the concerns that there is too many pharmacy students graduating, or when I look at the data and you really look at the unmet needs of complex medications, aging populations, clinician, physician shortages, I see a huge need for pharmacists.

Well, I don’t know the exact number of pharmacists we need. We definitely need more pharmacists practicing, but in different places than we are today, and also with different and better reimbursement models that value our overall benefit to health care and what I often referred to as the quadruple aim that we can help with improving the quality of care, we can improve the patient experience, we can improve provider satisfaction, and ultimately reduce costs by having more pharmacy team members.

The last thing I’ll say about it is, I often do the reason I say pharmacy can do more, not just pharmacists, is I definitely see a huge value of our pharmacy technician team members and have definitely advocate in for increasing their roles and as part of a true career for them, as well as, of course, integrating our students and optimizing more roles or creating more resonant positions. That’s why I often say pharmacy can do more with more, not just pharmacists.

[00:09:21] TU: Yeah. I love Kimber, your vision and an abundance mindset of creating new positions, right? 100 new positions in pharmacy each year. I wish we would see that adoption at a greater level among our national organizations and others because I think it really gets out of the conversation of, we only have so many jobs in this many graduates. What do we do? How do we increase the pie, right? How do we increase the pie and the opportunities that are out there? Which require, what we were just talking about a moment ago, that culture and spirit of intrapreneurship and entrepreneurship. So talk to us about the genesis of The Kimber Boothe Group. Your business and we’ll talk more about products and services here in a moment. But The Kimber Boothe Group, what problems or challenges did you face? What were you trying to remedy with this business?

[00:10:04] KB: Well, it’s interesting. When I first started the business really eight years ago, definitely as a side hustle, maybe many of your listeners are doing or considering doing. So at the time, actually when I started, I was actually still in Pharma at that time, and definitely, I had had multiple business ideas that all ended up in a file cabinet. So there was definitely a bug that I had around entrepreneurship but hadn’t found the right fit for me until I actually came across this thought leader, influencer model of an expert where it took away some of what I saw as barriers to a business like physical space products. It became about, what are you good at? What do people come to you for? What are you the expert in? How can you monetize that knowledge by sharing it with other people and helping them to grow, and becoming that multiplier to spread?

When I came across this expert’s model, that’s when I decided actually to create my business. I came up with a list of the things again that people naturally came to me for, the things that I was drawn to learning more about. It was definitely a lot about strategic planning, project management, and career development were the three main areas, both career development in terms of your professional development, but also being more assertive about your career trajectory and path. So that’s how I started. It was very general. I started to do some things on the side, some coaching.

I always to refer back to my first coaching client was an opera-singing soccer mom who just wanted some help to get back into opera singing and into the stage where she had to focus on her family for so long. We worked through that and she got on stage. So she was my first coaching client. From there it was a few years later that I actually went to the Medipreneurs Conference, which is an event that a few pharmacists had created, Anna Garrett, Sue Paul and Michelle Fritsch created that event. When I went to that event, I realized there that my passion is pharmacy, and that is where I had had definitely some success with doing some intrapreneurship business plans, justifying more positions.

I was being asked to speak by various organizations, conferences. I said, “Why am I trying to do this business very broad? I should be niching down or focusing my target to pharmacy.” Because I don’t mind helping soccer moms and things like that, but really, my passion is pharmacy. What I really wanted to do and connect those dots together was really focusing on helping the pharmacy profession to advance through sharing, again, similar topics. Strategic planning, project management, and career development were definitely a big part of that.

Back then, is when I created my Pharmovation course, which then turned into my Pharmovation book and the pharmovation consulting that I do for health systems which is where I spend most of my time these days, is actually helping organizations to write strategic plans, write those business plans that actually justify those additional positions.

[00:13:33] TU: For folks that are interested in learning more about what Kimber had shared of the influencer expert business model. She talks about it in her book, Pharmfluencers: The Inspiring Stories of Pharmacy Entrepreneurs. So more information there, I think that’s a great way for pharmacists to think about, especially what Kimber, or when I think about your career journey and the expertise that you have. I suspect many of the relationships in the network that you have, it makes a whole lot of sense that you’re doing some of that consulting.

If I heard you correctly you’re doing both on the business to business side, you’re consulting with health systems and organizations, helping them on a strategy leadership level, but then also you have a suite of services that are really on the business to consumer the B2C side for the individual being the courses, the coaching and the books. Is that correct?

[00:14:19] KB: Exactly, yes. I have what I call my product matrix of what I’m trying to support people with. Yeah, there’s definitely the consulting arm that focuses on the businesses themselves. I’m usually paid by director of pharmacy, usually. Then others, whether it’s individual coaching online courses or membership programs where people have opportunities for all of us to connect in a smaller group coaching atmosphere, both on the entrepreneurship side and the entrepreneurship side.

[00:14:53] TU: Could you break down a little bit further, Kim? You said you spent a vast majority of your time in consulting with the health system, roughly speaking certainly not share individual numbers, but roughly speaking on time spent or revenue of the business, if we think about this as a pie chart with your consulting to organizations, and then some of the coaching and the coursework that you’re doing with individuals or smaller groups as well as the books or other products. How would you break that down in terms of the different products and services that are within your business?

[00:15:21] KB: Yeah. That’s a very good question in terms of that breakdown and what it is now and what I wanted to be, I’ll share here. So right now it is more 90% of my time and 90% of my revenue is coming from consulting. That is that work and the other 10% is coming from the membership’s one-on-one coaching and other things like the summit programs that I’ve done. So that 90/10 a ratio, I’m definitely wanting to change that a little bit. I’m doing things like I have a full-time assistant and we’re trying to grow the online business through the membership basically, just because my time is limited.

If I want to be able to have more impact and reach more people, it’s not going to be through my one-on-one consulting. So I think the goal would be to grow that about to 40% of the business, 50 to 60% maintaining on the consulting side because I still think that’s vital for me. Having that integrated involvement with organizations is really helpful for me to grow and for me to really have the biggest impact, but I also know again, to reach more people and to get other people to write their own business plans so that we can create even more than 100 positions a year is definitely how I want to grow.

Again, moving towards more of a, almost a 50/50, but in this current year, my goal is to get to at least 80/20. So each year I have a goal to move that needle about 10%. Again, some of that is through growing my group membership that I have called the Connector Leadership Circle. Again that I can help more people at once and I can through, one-on-one coaching conversations or one to business consulting. I will share my other goal with growing is to add to my team. So I’m definitely talking with folks about doing some consulting with me, so I could potentially take on more consulting clients if I had a team. Right now it is just a team of one, right now.

While I have been asked by other consulting companies to become part of their firms, I’ve chosen to stay on my own, because of the flexibility, so I could focus on what I want with this ratio of services. Again, I recognize that organizations do need help. When I’m full on my consulting or my coaching clients and I can’t take anymore, well, how can I serve more? That would be adding to my team and them coming under the Kimber Boothe Group to do the consulting with me and as well as potentially some additional coaches.

I do recognize that people do come to me for my knowledge, but there’s a lot of people who have learned from me over the years and can teach and do what I’m doing. So it doesn’t have to be just about me. I think the last thing I’ll just share with that is when it comes to having a business, my current business coach, which of course I’ve always recommended having a coach throughout my career. I’ve either paid for myself or advocated through my organizations to have a coach. My current coach is definitely very focused business. What they say in that program, which is, it’s called Action Coach, and they follow very organized format for business owners, but their definition of a business owner is owning a business that can operate independently of you.

I definitely am not there yet, and I don’t know that I’ll ever want it to be that way. But if I want to leave a long-lasting legacy that is why I am exploring with my coach. What are these ways through adding to my consulting team or adding additional coaches, creating these membership programs where I can reach more people and it can become a little more independent. So that is my goal. I don’t think I ever started that way, though. I mean, honestly, that definition and that thought process is still pretty new, because when I did think of this thought leader model and when I did even think about what to call my business.

I called it my name because a lot of the people I was learning from back then, that’s what they did and then their products, so I brand my products and services and trademark them, but the business itself was me, but in this new mindset it won’t be me in the future at some point or it definitely will be a team. That is why it says group, not just Kimber Boothe, so that is part of that. So thanks for letting me share those thoughts.

[00:20:07] TU: No, I’m glad you did, because, because one of the things I always encourage folks as they have an idea that they’re passionate about. They want to pursue or they say, “I want to start my own business.” One of the things I’ll ask and encourage them is, what’s the goal? What do you want this to look like? What is the vision of that product or that service? But if we fast forward 20 to 30 to 40 years, is this a lifestyle business? Are you a solo entrepreneur? Do you envision a model where, as you mentioned, Kimber, by definition of sounds what the action coach program does that this can operate without you and therefore live on without you, which makes a whole lot of sense when you talk about this vision of really impacting and leaving a dent in the profession and growing positions, like scalability makes a whole lot of sense, right? Because there goes the impact that you can have and that could mean beyond your career that could mean time off that you have, but that other folks are helping to advance that mission.

That’s part of a couple of reasons why I wanted to dig in a little bit of behind the curtain of the business is, one I suspect that you may have many listed units and I am really interested in learning more about what Kimber is doing. You can find all this at kimberboothe.com. We’ll link to that in the show notes. Number two, is that I don’t think we often share enough of among pharmacy entrepreneurs of what is the actual bones of the business look like today and where do we want it to go?

I think that’s so helpful, because for many people that are at the different phases of, hey, I’ve got an idea, or it’s a side hustle, or I’m actually starting to validate an idea and grow it and scale it. Being able to hear, even if someone isn’t thinking about a model that fits necessarily within the realm of what you’re doing, I think it’s helpful to hear other models that exist, how those businesses are monetized. What are some of the challenges and where do they envision the growth going in the future? So my follow up question with that in mind, Kimber, is as you have this business that has both a, B2B, so business to business, working with health system organizations, consulting as well as a, B2C, where you’re doing individual types of coaching and programs and books, do you see synergy between the two?

As you talk about your services, I could see where you’re consulting with an organization, and leaders within that organization may say, “Hey, I want some coaching or services individually for me, or vice versa.” Where individuals are engaging with your products, as an individual, as a consumer, and they say, “Hey, we really would love to have Kimber be a part of our organization.” Do you see some of that crossover that’s happening?

[00:22:29] KB: Yes, definitely. There’s crossover on the B2B and the B2C where, yeah, I think both ways. Definitely where I’ve been brought in as a consultant and then they say, “Oh I want to join your membership to have this.” You can finish your consulting project, but now I want to stay involved either themselves or they want it for their team members. So they’ll have them join the membership or attend my summits, buy my books. Also on the other side definitely, I’ve worked with people as one-on-one coaches, and then they say, “Oh this is great. We’ve gotten this far, but it would really help if you can come in and work with us directly. So I’m going to suggest you be a consultant.” I definitely have started, I do plan to look into this further is also trying to get these organizations as part of a bulk purchase. So can they, as part of their professional development of their team members, they pay for.

[00:23:33] TU: Yes.

[00:23:33] KB: Rather than many times the individual is paying for some of my services and products with the health system or pharmacy pay for their members to go. I have group rates, again that I’ve introduced to a few health systems, but want to offer that more broadly where if they have ten people join one of my courses or join the membership, they get ten, 20% off, because they have paid for it. Then the individual has gotten that support and recognition from the organization, so absolutely a lot of synergy there.

[00:24:13] TU: I love that, Kimber. I think you and I maybe talked about this offline while ago as we share some previous career paths and links in the health system pharmacy leadership role. I think that area is so right for ongoing coaching development at the pharmacy director and management level of folks that have found themselves in those roles through extensive training and obviously lots of professional development that got them there. If I’m a director of pharmacy, Chief Pharmacy Officer, I want to not only recruit and retain that top talent, but I want them to grow in their awareness of what is possible. We’ll talk in a moment here about mindset. I certainly see value that can happen as you’re working with organizations also doing some individual coaching and consulting as well, so glad to hear that you’re exploring that direction.

[00:25:03] KB: I think. Well, I’ll just add to that, Tim, briefly. Obviously, you’ve focused a lot on the health system pharmacy leadership with the residency programs. It is great when people know they wanted to go into leadership and they tend to focus on that, but what I’ve definitely seen in pharmacy is a lot of times people are appropriate. They’re very focused on their clinical knowledge. Then they get tapped for leadership positions or they have an interest. It is surprising to me when I ask a group of pharmacists, “Who has a professional development plan?” And maybe five to 10% of the people will raise their hand. I’ve been in audiences where nobody has raised their hands.

Sometimes we finish school and then we’re doing continuing education, but we’re not being strategic about our career development. So for me, it’s all about being strategic, not just in the business plans, but being strategic about your career and those are a lot of the folks that I help in addition to the health system, pharmacy leadership, residency training folks who knew that they wanted to go into leadership. It’s all of the other team members who weren’t as interested, but because they’re strong clinicians, they do get tacked and there’s a lot of a need and opportunity there for ongoing support.

[00:26:22] TU: You’re giving me flashbacks, Kimber of I think everyone who’s gone through residency can relate to the days. It was resi track back in the day when I completed — I think it’s an out form academic, but just the extensive evaluation and goal setting and professional development that happens during that training year. Then you just enter into the wild, wild West. That’s a common thing you hear among folks of that transition is very stark from development and goal setting and evaluation that’s very rigorous to like it becomes much more self-initiated unless you’ve got a supervisor that is very, very passionate about that. So, great reminder for folks that have gone through that training or have not, I think of how important it is to be intentional as we think about the professional development piece.

Kimber, your latest book, Pharmfluencers: The Inspiring Story of Pharmacy Entrepreneurs. Folks can find that book available on Amazon. You can also go to our kimberboothe.com to get more information. One of things you say in the intro is, “I know far too many pharmacists who are experiencing burnout from working within the health care industry who find themselves unable to achieve the level of financial freedom they want, who believe that they can do more than what they’re allowed within the confines of their job.” For those that hear that, that are listening and say, yes, that’s me. What advice would you have for them?

[00:27:43] KB: Well, definitely get the book. The reason I chose to do to get this book together is again, I’m really pro pharmacy. So I want to advance the profession, whether it is through intrapreneurship or with entrepreneurs. So this book, what’s so cool about it, is it is 34 pharmacist entrepreneurs and their inspiring stories of how they have taken their passions, their knowledge, such as yourself as you are featured in this book to share that of how they have created a business to monetize their knowledge and have the impact that they desire.

Some people are doing it, definitely there’s people in the book that are doing it as a side hustle. Others that have been able to transition to it full time like you and I. It is just my way of helping to motivate people to know that they can do this again, either on the side or as a full-time career. Again, I don’t think this is the only path, by all means, I do see lots of opportunity in pharmacy. I do think within our organizations we need to be innovative about it, but I do love entrepreneurship. It’s been a wonderful experience for me in terms of being able to be having some freedom and the creativity to design a business that in some cases has more flexibility than a job.

It does have more risks sometimes. We know there’s some data that shows that small businesses don’t succeed. Again, a lot of what this book focuses on is this expert’s model or the that’s why it’s the pharmacist influencers. So in this book, I really focus on what I said about my business. It’s a slightly easier business model than others that have lots of infrastructure, but what we do talk about in the book and why I think people who are interested in or just want to understand more about businesses is getting the book, reading the stories to be inspired.

There is access to a chapter that talks about the outline of the Pharmfluencer business model, which will walk through some of the basics of starting a business and understanding some of those aspects of why would you start a business? What type of topics do you want to focus on? Definitely we go into what I’ve summarized as the 14 common methods to monetize your knowledge. This is where somebody who, and we definitely have a lot of different entrepreneurs out there like yourself who focus on an area. We have the Prednisone Pharmacists, we have the Fertility Pharmacists, the Public Health Pharmacists, we have all sorts of people who are diving deep in areas to get and share their knowledge, but also being able to monetize that.

Those 14 methods range from creating apps and tools, writing books or e-books, creating online courses, doing coaching one-on-one or group, consulting, clinical services, which is a lot of what I would say when we think about some of the entrepreneurship in pharmacy these days doing MTMs, doing fee for service, clinical services. That’s still an awesome method, but that’s not the only way to monetize your knowledge. You can do live seminars, create masterminds, memberships, sell to smaller PDFs. You could be physical products like Dr. Megan who is the Prednisone Pharmacist, she has a supplement for people on prednisone.

You can do speaking and that could be potentially a moneymaker. It’s definitely also a marketing tool. You can also sell webinars and even do virtual summits these days, which have become important. So those are the 14 ways that I think of to monetize your knowledge that we talk about in the book and then each of the 34 pharmfluencers shares what their journey is and what they’re doing to monetize their knowledge.

You only have to pick one to start. So once you read the book, you’re inspired, you can think through and find your ikigai, which is your passion and purpose, and tie that to something that can be monetized and you pick a method to monetize. I honestly did not start with books. Books are not necessarily my favorite thing to do. So definitely the coaching was where I started doing that one-on-one coaching that actually has probably the lowest barrier to entry in terms of ease for supporting people, right away. Then I moved on to creating the online courses and selling those. Then as you heard about some of the other methods that I am using.

[00:32:38] TU: That’s what I loved about the book, Kimber, is that the 14 ways and ideas that folks can have, the buckets, if you will, of how to monetize. The work that they’re doing, followed up with over 30 different pharmacists’ entrepreneurs and stories. I think the passion we share for featuring pharmacist entrepreneurs and stories is the desire that we, I see among pharmacists today, I’m interested in using my pharmacy degree and maybe what we call a nontraditional way. I don’t know exactly where to go and how to get started. I always say as we share more of these stories like we’re sharing yours here today.

Maybe for some folks, they’re going to say, “Hey, I hear what Kimber is doing. I want to do something like that, or it sparks an idea.” But more than anything, it’s that idea creation and Genesis and just opening up the door of I had no idea. There’s all these pharmacists that are out there that all graduated with a pharmacy degree, and now they’re doing 34 different things in the case of the individuals that are featured in the book. So I think it helps folks to spark an idea, perhaps to get them thinking a different way, but it’s tangible, right? I think often you read about, “Hey, how can you monetize your income or side hustle or this or that?”

Often folks are like, “Hey, that’s exciting, but I don’t really know where to get started.” That’s where the stories, that’s where examples of other pharmacists that are doing certain things and folks can say, “Oh, I’m a pharmacist in that setting, this is give me idea of how I might also be able to monetize the work that I’m doing or at least one place to get started.” So really well done, I think the introduction was brilliant the way that you wrote that. Then covering the business model the Pharmfluencer business models you mentioned, and then followed up with over 30 different pharmacists, entrepreneurs that are featured.

One of the things that you talk about in the book, and I want to dive a little bit deeper here as it relates to your own journey, as well as maybe what you saw as a theme or thread among those that were featured is the concept of the power of mindset. This has come up as a recurring theme of yes on this show. I want to just hear from you, Kimber, as you put together these 30-plus stories. Tell us more about the theme that you saw around mindset and why it was so influential in their own businesses and journeys.

[00:34:48] KB: Absolutely. It’s so important and I’m going to forget some of the great quotes on this topic, but what you think is what’s going to come to fruition, and it’s so important both with when we’re working as well as if we’re thinking about being an entrepreneur, because it’s it definitely can be very scary and it’s important that we think positive, we think boldly. Definitely, you mentioned abundance, a mindset before. That’s where we need to be in this a blue ocean mentality rather than read ocean. There’s a book about that where, again, there are so many needs and opportunities and there is space and need for everybody. We need to find that versus thinking that we’re all fighting for that same piece of the pie and it’s more of that restriction.

I focus on it here in the book. Definitely when I’m coaching people as well as in my courses, how important that is. I always try to support developing that and focusing on having a positive mindset and a critical way to develop that mindset is surrounding yourself with like-minded people. It’s important when you’re considering this journey that you do talk to people who have been there and done it, because it’s easy. I definitely experience this in my family. When you start talking about entrepreneurship and it’s like, oh, you’re going to behave your, you’re nice solid pharmacist paycheck to do something that’s this risky. Really, so you want to do that? It’s being around with other people.

When I was actually at a retreat and everybody’s like, well, Kimber, you need to give your notice. You need to do this now. As soon as you get back from this retreat give your notice. I’m like well, well, let me – I was, I knew I was going to leave within a couple of years, and I didn’t want to leave right then, because it was pharmacists month, but soon after that, I did make the decision, and it was surrounding myself with these like-minded folks that helped me with my mindset about this, that I would be successful and to think about it. I do think one of the quotes I do have in the book is that it did say that, “Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. There’s not a thing to be waited for. It is a thing to be achieved.”

I think those are quotes and mantras that I try to think about and repeat that helped me with my mindset as well as, like I said, surrounded myself with these wonderful pharmfluencers like yourself to motivate me as well as sometimes commiserate. We can have that positive mindset, but that doesn’t mean that bad things won’t happen. It’s more about how we approach it and how we react to it. That is the key part of the mindset and not just having that grit and resilience to move through any troubles that come up.

[00:38:03] TU: Yeah. Kimber, there’s something really powerful you said in the introduction that I think gives people a sneak peek into your mindset and the motivation behind your work. That was when you said, there’s something empowering about taking hold of one’s life and sharing that narrative with the world. I think for folks that have an idea and want to create something, you want to do something. Don’t underestimate the power that can come from that shift in mindset when you’re creating, your putting yourself out there. Yes, there’s fear. Yes, there’s risk that’s involved, but that’s a beautiful thing. When you start to see that you’re producing something that’s having a positive impact in other people’s lives.

Kimber, I have a follow up on that. In addition to surround yourself with like-minded people, so important and there’s lots of different ways that folks can do that. You’ve created community that helps that as well. Are there one or two other things that you have found either personally or in coaching others, thinking of things can be morning routines or just a voracious hunger to be reading and learning, but are there one or two themes that you have found individually or in coaching others that really help in this shaping up mindset?

[00:39:11] KB: Yes. I mean, a lot of the things you mentioned are definitely important. That’s why I in the book I know I refer to it as having your inner circle and your network, so that is around that creating those connections. I do think that continuous development is an important part of that. Having a professional development plan that not only includes your subject matter expertize, but now also aspects of entrepreneurship. You don’t have to learn and know every aspect of it, because you can definitely hire and pay other people to do certain things. But expanding your development so that you are considering learning, right? This is now your business. You do need to spend some extra time and investment in that.

Definitely having a coach I would say is probably the most important thing I have done for mindset through the years. Again, whether I had what I used to maybe refer to as an executive coach, maybe at one point a career coach and then more of an executive coach when I was in leadership positions. Now having a business coach, I think having a coach is critical. There’s four levels that I actually think about in terms of relationships. The first one is just networking. You’re like level one relationship building is like networking.

Everybody should have a networking plan and be strategic about it. Then people should have a mentor, somebody that’s more that you do meet with that’s within an area that’s related to your development. People should have a sponsor if they’re in an organization, so that’s the third level. A sponsor differs from a mentor usually, because they’re in a position of power. They can sponsor and advocate for you when certain positions come up. Then the fourth level of that relationship area that is critical is coaching.

Some of the training I’ve done on coaching calls your coach, your paid best friend, but it is somebody who will challenge you beyond what you would maybe challenge yourself to do, but also see things in you that you may suppress or not be willing to acknowledge and bring out and move you through your fears to success. I would say again, definitely just having that inner circle related to your networking and your mentors doing your development, but then ultimately having a coach has been what’s been so important for me with my mindset.

[00:41:53] TU: Yeah. Well said. I would agree with that too. It took me a while to get around to the importance of making that investment about time and money, but it’s so important. I would just echo everything you said in terms of when I think about the impact that my coach has had on my overall mindset and it’s not just in those coaching sessions, right? I think when done well and when you are ready for the coaching, it’s the constant thought and dialog that’s going on, could be internally, it could be after coaching session, my wife Jess and I or a friend we’re digesting and following up on things, but it’s a continuous process that’s ongoing and it’s really, really fun to think about, what’s the next level? What’s the next level? Where else can I continue to grow and stretch myself? Often that means perhaps going into some areas that are uncomfortable as well.

[00:42:40] KB: It’s sometimes what my coach has also done is, in a way the opposite. It’s also a matter of making sure I do have balance and that’s it is a business. There’s a reason like you said, about what you talk to your clients about is, what is your goal here? Well, it’s not in most cases to work more hours than you are working at the pharmacy, but it is for some more freedom and maybe that’s not something that you expect maybe in your first few years of business.

I know my coach also helps me with that to be realistic as well in terms of, am I prioritizing the most critical things and ensuring that I don’t burn out or put too many things on my plate. Or also definitely challenge me to make sure I’m outsourcing things, if it is definitely things that I can delegate. Definitely thinking new and balancing comes from a great coach.

[00:43:35] TU: Speaking of outsourcing, you talk about in the book that your biggest learning curve was being the transition from a solopreneur to hiring and filling positions, which I was surprised at, given your background in managing and leading teams. I would assume very, very comfortable with delegation, which may not always be the case for four folks. So talk to us more about why this was such a steep learning curve for you?

[00:43:58] KB: It is a good question. I still to this day, I think, I still have some trouble with it. I don’t know why, right? Like you said, I’ve hired hundreds of people. I’ve had teams of hundreds of people under me through a Matrix organization. It was — when you’re using your own money, I guess, and I guess like in some people, like bootstrapping, I didn’t take loans, the expenses for those first few years as a side hustle, I was losing money. Technically based on the investments I was making in my education, the website, some things, because it was on the side, I wasn’t bringing in a profit. So you think hiring is just going to mean more expense. But at the end of the day, and as I’ve learned from more entrepreneurs, the faster, and you can scale up through working with others that will usually get you to the finish line faster to become more profitable.

I did have trouble seeing that early on. Then interestingly, even when I was hiring it was easier definitely to hire for specific tasks. If I needed a graphic designer, I needed a video editor. Those things seemed easier to hire for. Then I definitely had a mindset around my assistant, again where I was doing things myself and then hiring an assistant for 10 hours a week or 20 hours a week. It wasn’t until I did take a course actually on virtual assistants. It’s like, how can you scale yourself, right? Then put yourself as the CEO. Literally, that’s what they called this course that I took.

It was like, you’re the CEO of your business. You would not be the ones posting certain things or you would not be the one to create a web page. That would be somebody else if you were the true CEO of your business and thinking through that and moving to actually hiring somebody full time where just like I do talk about in our profession, you should be practicing at the top of your license. You should do the same in your business. Unless it’s something you absolutely are uniquely qualified, and only you can do it then you should be able to delegate or outsource that.

It is interesting where I feel like I still was not doing a great job was even on the hiring process. I was trying to work and wanted to just hire different agencies, who would get me an assistant. I’m like, I have hired lots of people, right? Why haven’t I converted to do that myself? So once I switched and did that and I actually hired myself and same thing I’m doing now with looking for subcontractor consultants is I can do the interview the same way I did before. I don’t know why I was treating it differently. There are definitely a lot of things that should crossover from intrapreneurship to entrepreneurship that for whatever reason I had a mental block about, but that is cleared now and moving more focus into making sure that it is a true business. I’m hiring a team just like I would have done when I was the chief pharmacy officer.

[00:47:21] TU: Great stuff, Kimber. I think that first one is very difficult. I think as time goes on it becomes a little bit easier as well, but appreciate the reflection. I would encourage again, folks to make sure they pick up a copy of Pharmfluencers: The Inspiring Stories of Pharmacy Entrepreneurs, over 30 pharmacy influencer entrepreneur stories. You can pick that up on Amazon or you can also pick that up by going to kimberboothe.com. Kimber, what’s the best place that folks can go to learn more about you and follow your journey?

[00:47:48] KB: Yeah, definitely coming to my website at kimberboothe.com, they can learn a little bit more about me. If you go to kimberboothe.com/links, you can get access to my various social media channels, as well as get the Free Pharmevader score to see what a pharmacy innovator you are. Basically, just get on my email list, so I can communicate with you more regularly when these different opportunities come up. Basically go to my website, kimberboothe.com or kimberboothe/links to get to all of my contact points.

[00:48:24] TU: Great. We’ll link to the website as well as LinkedIn and the books, we’ll link to all that in the show notes. Kimber, congratulations on, again the new book, your second book, the work that you’re doing, the impact that you’re having on the profession. Look forward to following your journey and thank you so much for coming on the show.

[00:48:39] KB: Thank you, Tim. Thanks for having me.

[OUTRO]

[00:48:41] TU: Before we wrap up today’s show, let’s hear an important message from our sponsor, Insuring Income. If you are in the market to add own occupation disability insurance, term life insurance or both. Insuring Income would love to be a resource. Insuring Income has relationships with all of the high-quality disability insurance and life insurance carriers you should be considering and can help you design coverage to best protect you and your family.

Head over to insuringincome.com/yourfinancialpharmacist or click on their link in the show notes to request quotes, ask a question or start down your own path of learning more about this necessary protection.

As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information to the podcasts and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacists.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 256: Why YFP Planning’s Lead Financial Planners Are All CFPs®

Posted on by yfpadmin

Why YFP Planning’s Lead Financial Planners Are All CFPs®

On today’s episode, sponsored by Splash Financial, YFP Planning Financial Planner, Kimberly Bolton, CFP® discusses why the CFP® designation is the most valuable credential when providing comprehensive financial planning, why the term financial planner in and of itself doesn’t mean a whole lot, what questions you can ask to find a planner who is a good fit for you, and what someone can expect when working with a financial planner.

About Today’s Guest

Kimberly Bolton, CFP®, is a Financial Planner at YFP Planning. Along with her team members, Robert Lopez, CFP®, and Savannah Nichols, she strives to help YFP Planning clients on their financial journey to living their best lives. To go along with her CFP® designation, Kim has a B.S. in Consumer Sciences with a concentration in Family Financial Planning and Counseling. When not working, Kim enjoys being in the sunshine, hitting the gym, hiking, traveling, taking her dogs Nugget and Toot on adventures, being a food enthusiast with her husband Allen, and spending time with her bonus kids Brianna and Brady.

Episode Summary

This week, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, sits down with YFP Planning Financial Planner, Kimberly Bolton, CFP®, to discuss why all of the lead financial planners at YFP Planning are CFPs®. In their discussion, Tim and Kim cover why Your Financial Pharmacist believes the CFP®, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER, designation is the most valuable credential when providing comprehensive financial planning. Kim shares her personal story of becoming a CFP®, the rigorous education and experience requirements to become a CFP®, the comprehensive nature of the CFP® exam, the ethical standards associated with the credential, and why the CFP® is considered the most prestigious financial designation in the industry. She digs into why the term financial planner, or financial advisor, in and of itself doesn’t mean a whole lot, what specific questions you can ask to find a planner that is a good fit for you, and what someone can expect when working with a financial planner. Kim also explains common fee structures in the financial planning industry and why YFP Planning uses a fee-only structure. Tim shares a little bit of his own experience as a YFP Planning client himself, echoing Kim’s sentiment that the partnership between planner and client is an intimate one and that as a client, feeling comfortable with your planner will make an incredible difference in your experience. Kim closes with an awesome client success story, sharing how one couple was able to make their home-owning dreams come true years earlier than planned.

Key Points From This Episode

Background on Kim’s professional journey to becoming a CFP®.
What inspired her to pursue a career in financial planning.
We find out about the work that Kim is currently involved with at YFP Planning.
Why the YFP team believe so much in the CFP® designation.
Some examples of how comprehensive the CFP® training is.
How working with a certified CFP® is beneficial for the client.
Kim tells us what is required to enter the CFP® course.
What people taking the CFP® board exam can expect.
Learn about the experience requirement needed after passing the exam.
The expected ethical standards once you are certified.
Differences in the types of CFP® planners in terms of fees and services.
A brief breakdown of the different fee structures associated with CFP® planners.
Examples of good questions to ask a financial planner to ensure they are the right fit for you.
Kim shares a success story about working with a CFP®.

Highlights

“If you do any research on it, you’ll see that [being a Certified Financial Planner] is titled the most prestigious financial designation that you can have within the industry.” — Kimberly Bolton, CFP® [0:10:02]

“Here at YFP, it’s really important to us that our clients are comfortable with our recommendations. We want the clients to feel that the recommendations we make are made because it is in the client’s best interest.” — Kimberly Bolton, CFP® [0:11:58]

“Talking about your finances is a very intimate conversation. You want to make sure you are comfortable with your financial planner, because you’re going to have some intimate talks about your finances!” — Kimberly Bolton, CFP® [0:22:33]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where, each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I had a chance to welcome YFP Planning financial planner, Kim Bolton, onto the show. We discuss why we believe the CFP, Certified Financial Planner, designation is the most valuable credential when providing comprehensive financial planning. We also discuss why the term financial planner or financial advisor in and of itself doesn’t mean a whole lot, what questions you can ask to find a planner that is a good fit for you, and what someone can expect when working with a financial planner.

Now, before we hear from today’s sponsor and then jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 45 states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

Okay, let’s hear from today’s sponsor, and then we’ll jump into my conversation with YFP Planning financial planner, Kim Bolton. This episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast is sponsored by Splash Financial. With interest rates on the rise, it’s a good time to evaluate the refinancing of your student loans. If you’ve ever considered refinancing your loans, check your rate now through Splash Financial. If you qualify, refinancing could help you get a lower monthly payment on your student loans or get a lower interest rate. Splash helps you shop and compare loan refinancing offers across lenders nationwide.

Browsing rates through Splash Financial is fast, free, and won’t impact your credit until you complete a full application. Now, when you successfully refinance $50,000 or more, Splash Financial will give you an extra $500 in cash bonus using our link, splashfinancial.com/yfp. So check your rate today and see what you might be able to save at splashfinancial.com/yfp.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:02:21] TU: Kim, welcome to the show.

[00:02:22] KB: Thanks. Thanks for having me. I’m really excited to be here.

[00:02:25] TU: Well, this has been a long time in the making. We just celebrated your two-year anniversary here with YFP. So Kim is one of our financial planners that works with the team at YFP Planning. Today, we’re going to be talking all about why our financial planners are all CFP, certified financial planners, and why we believe so much in the CFP designation. The reason we’re putting Kim on the hot seat to talk about this topic is Kim just completed all of the components of the CFP to be able to use those marks. So, Kim, congratulations officially. Exciting to see that to the finish line.

[00:02:57] KB: Yeah, thanks. Thanks so much. It was a long journey. It took me – If you counted like my school and everything, it was about a six-year journey that it took to have the three little letters put behind my name.

[00:03:11] TU: We’ll talk about why that takes so long and why those three letters are so important. But before we jump into learning about the CFP requirements, a certified financial planner requirement, tell us more about your career journey leading up to and including the work that you’re doing with YFP Planning.

[00:03:26] KB: Yeah. So my career journey in the financial planning industry actually began with YFP. YFP is the first financial firm that I have ever worked for. Before Tim found me, I had applied and interviewed with a couple of big corporate financial firms, and I had just realized like that’s not really where I want to be. Like that didn’t feel like home to me. Prior to the financial planning industry, I actually worked for the University of Alabama. I was an office administrator in their maintenance department. So I kind of already had experience with like the customer service piece and like invoicing and paperwork and the admin part of the job.

[00:04:03] TU: Where did that interest come from, Kim, in terms of that pursuit of a career in financial planning?

[00:04:08] KB: So I was actually four months from graduating from college with an English major when I realized I want to be a financial planner, not an English major. So it started way back probably when I was like 16 and first started working. So I learned at a pretty young age how to semi-manage my finances since I had a car payment and insurance and things like that. Then I went through college thinking I was going to be an English major, and I realized in my thesis analysis class that that’s not where I wanted to be.

So I went and talked with my college advisor. Just through like brainstorming different jobs that I could have, I had kind of come up with the idea of a finance major. A finance major and a financial planning major are – It’s similar, but they’re very different. The finance major is more broad than the financial planning major. So you get pretty like concentrated when you do just a financial planning major. So when I had first mentioned finance to my advisor, we were going through the different jobs that I could have with that degree and everything, and we eventually just realized that I wanted to help people with their finances, and I wanted to help people be able to retire and live a financial-free life.

Then that’s when we decided that financial planning is what I wanted to do. So four months before graduating, I changed my degree to be financial planning. It added a year and a half onto my schooling, but it was completely worth it, and now here I am, being a financial planner.

[00:05:39] TU: I think for those, Kim, that have not worked with a planner, it can be hard to understand, like what do I expect? What is actually involved in that relationship? What does it look like? One of the things we’re going to talk about is how different this service can be. Certainly, that term financial planner, that term financial advisor, wealth manager, lots of terms that are used, it does not mean that all things are created equal. So there’s a variety of ways that it can be done.

But I think for folks that have not worked with a planner, it can even just be hard to wrap your arms around what does this actually look like. So as it relates to your work with YFP Planning and working alongside lead planner, Robert Lopez, give us a sneak peek into what your day-to-day, what your week-to-week looks like, as you help support the financial planning process for over 100 pharmacist households.

[00:06:23] KB: Right. So day-to-day, we’re pretty much in the nitty-gritty financial planning. So day-to-day, I’m helping Robert get prepared for meetings, making the presentations for him. So if you are a client of YFP and you’ve ever seen any kind of slideshow or slide deck, that is definitely me and Savannah, working behind the scenes to kind of put that together for him. Working with Robert to help make any kind of recommendations, usually like the two of us brainstorm together to make the best recommendation for the client based on their certain situation.

Then from a week-to-week perspective, that’s kind of when you get a bigger picture, and you have like more projects coming in. So right at this moment, it looks like transitioning our clients into like a quarterly meeting schedule and kind of what that looks like for them, what that involves from us from like a workflow perspective, and really kind of catapulting that into existence and moving clients into a quarterly schedule.

Overall, I directly support Robert and just make sure he’s prepared to give the client the recommendation, and I help him do any kind of research that is needed so that we can make sure we’re making the right call on different financial scenarios.

[00:07:37] TU: Robert, for folks that have not heard him on the podcast before, Robert Lopez is one of our lead financial planners, along with Kelly Reddy-Heffner. We had Robert on the podcast most recently on episode 248, where he talked about some public service loan forgiveness, PSLF, success story. So if folks are wondering, “Who is Robert,” that is who Robert is.

I think you highlighted well, Kim, that there’s a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes. I think about as we bring on a new client into YFP Planning, there’s a lot of work involved in terms of the onboarding, making sure we have all the information and then, of course, in the ongoing basis, preparing for meetings, following up for meetings. There could be transactions that need to happen, tasks that we need to make sure that we follow up on.

Even as one example, myself that you help, so I’m a client of YFP Planning, and Tim Baker is my financial planner. As I made the transition from Ohio State to working full time at YFP about a year ago, I had to do a rollover of my 401(a). So I had some questions as I looked at those forums. I wanted to make sure I did it right. I wanted to make sure there was no implications in terms of taxes or penalties. So you helped me execute that transition and that rollover. Lots of things that are happening that people may not see at face value, even for those that are engaged with the planning, where they jump onto an hour meeting or so with the lead planner.

Kim, one of the things we’ve touched on in the past is the importance of understanding, as I mentioned just a few moments ago, that not all financial planners are created equal. So they can have varied educational experiences. They can carry different designations. They can be regulated in different ways. They can charge in a variety of ways. We’re going to link to in the show notes an important resource that we have available to download for free, and that is the nuts and bolts of hiring a financial planner that I would encourage listeners to check out.

In that resource, we cover what are the different types of planners, how do they get paid, what are some questions that folks may consider asking when they hire a planner. Again, that’s the nuts and bolts to hiring planner. You can get that and download that at yourfinancialpharmacist.com/nutsandbolts, and we’ll link to that in the show notes as well.

So we’re going to focus our time on the CFP designation, the certified financial planners. We believe that that is the credential that’s an important criteria to do comprehensive financial planning and to do it well. We’re proud to have five CFPs on the YFP Planning team that collectively serve over 250 pharmacist households for one-on-one planning. Kim, let me punt this to you since you’re the most recent designee of the CFP on the YFP Planning team. Why does YFP believe so much in the CFP designation?

[00:10:10] KB: So the CFP designation, if you do any kind of research on it, you’ll see that it’s kind of titled the most prestigious financial designation that you can have within the industry. I really think that YFP believes in the CFP designation the way that we do, simply because when you have the CFP designation or you’re working towards that designation, you’re really proving to yourself and you’re proving to others how high of standards you have for yourself. So when someone is either in the process or has a designation, they are being extensively tested and quizzed on their knowledge of financial planning.

The questions and the coursework that you go through, it really digs deep and it makes you apply those financial planning concepts to real-life scenarios. So even though like you may be answering a multiple choice question when you’re being tested or when you’re doing like practice quizzes and everything, if you don’t understand how to apply the concept to a real-life scenario, then chances are you’re not going to be able to answer that question correctly. So the CFP designation really just sets you aside from everybody and shows how serious you are about your career in the financial planning world.

Another part to that is CFP designation requires that you be a fiduciary, which in short means you put the client’s interest above your own, even if that recommendation doesn’t necessarily benefit you. It just benefits the client. This would come into play, for example, like if a financial planner had recommended that somebody go out and get like a $1 million life insurance policy. There are scenarios where if you’re not a fiduciary, you could be recommending that to that client because it’s in your best interest, because you possibly get a commission off of that.

Here at YFP, it’s really important to us that our clients are comfortable with our recommendations. We want the clients to feel that the recommendations we make are made because it is in the client’s best interest. We don’t want that client to think like, “Hey, are they just making this recommendation because it benefits them, not because it benefits me?” So that’s really the big picture why I think YFP takes the CFP designation and so serious, is because it gives our clients that peace of mind. It gives them that level of comfort with us that we are working in their best interest, and we are doing what’s going to benefit them more than what’s going to benefit us.

[00:12:35] TU: Yeah. That was a great explanation, Kim, the fiduciary piece. We’re actually going to link that in the show notes. If people want to learn more about what the fiduciary standard is, why it matters, how it’s different from what’s known as the suitability standard, John Oliver has a great segment on this topic, and we’ll link to that in the show notes. Kim, you explained it well. So I think the highlights there would be the fiduciary piece, the rigors we’ll talk about in a moment, what makes up the CFP designation.

As Tim Baker often says, “The bar of entry into financial advising and hanging a shingle to be a financial adviser is fairly low.” So being able to have some rigor, some documented evidence of the work that’s been put in, the seriousness of that training, and obviously being prepared to then provide comprehensive financial planning, that’s something we see often that traditional financial planning services might not necessarily be serving at folks in all different phases of life. Are they well-versed in things from retirement planning to debt management and everything in between? I think if you look at the CFP curriculum, very intense but also very comprehensive.

So to that point, in terms of the rigor and the intensity, Kim you mentioned several years it took you to obtain that designation. So talk to us about the requirements that one must go through in order to be able to use those three letters by their name.

[00:13:52] KB: Right. So there’s a couple of different ways that you can be qualified for the CFP exam. The most common is for someone to go through the CFP board’s coursework. In my situation, my college degree qualified me for the CFP exam. So you either have to have a bachelor’s degree that qualifies you for the exam, or you have to go through the CFP board’s coursework. Then once you have completed the education piece, you were then allowed to sit for the exam. The exam is 170 questions. They give you a six-hour limit, and it’s broken into three-hour segments. So three hours and then they let you leave for 30 minutes, and then you come back for the remaining three hours. Yeah, it’s pretty brutal.

When I was taking mine, the lady that was working the front desk at the testing center when I left or when I was leaving, she told me, she said, “You’ve been here a long time today.” I’m like, “Yes, I just took a really long test.” Then once you pass that exam, which again during that exam, you’re tested on the ability to apply financial planning to real-life scenarios, and then you’re given a few different case studies where you have to dig through. It’s like a multiple answer question that you have to really look at.

Then once you have passed the exam, you are then required to fulfill an experience requirement. So if you are working directly underneath another CFP, which in my case, I was working directly under Robert and Tim Baker, so working underneath them, I was required to get 4,000 hours of experience, which comes in at almost two years of work in the financial planning industry. Once all that is complete, then you basically sign your life away, saying you will be a fiduciary from here on out, and you will uphold to the CFP board’s like ethical standards and their standards of conduct.

Then every year, we have some CE courses that we have to do. It sounds simple, but it’s really complex. After you’ve done all that, so the education, the exam, the experience, and then once you agree to the ethical requirements, you become a CFP.

[00:16:02] TU: Yeah. So I think pharmacists, they can relate to this, right? You described an educational component, you described an examination, and then you described what I would consider like an experiential component. So you mentioned 4,000 hours of practical experience and not until all of those have been completed and plus the acknowledgement that you’re going to uphold the fiduciary standard. Then at that point, you can use the certified financial planner marks.

We think about pharmacy education. You’ve got the doctor pharmacy program. You’ve got the experiential rotations, which are typically throughout school, and then the final year of pharmacy school. Then we have the licensure examination. So we have a NAPLEX exam, and then we have a state law examination. However, what I’ll point out here is that I won’t say the NAPLEX is easy, but the pass rate of the CFP is much lower than the NAPLEX. I’m looking at the March 2022 examination of the CFP, and the pass rate was only 65 percent, so a very rigorous exam.

Typically, we see board pass rates in pharmacy – I think the last I looked at it, we’re closer to 85 to 90 percent, so very rigorous exam. Then to my comment earlier, it’s a great benchmark, certainly not the only thing folks should be looking at as they’re shopping for a planner, but a good indicator that someone has gone through a rigorous process, educational component, examination, and an experiential piece that demonstrates their ability to do planning.

Kim, I mentioned this briefly earlier, but I want to talk more about it in this concept of are all CFPs created equal in terms of types of services and how fees are assessed. Really, when you get the CFP marks, you have demonstrated that you’ve gone through all the things that you just talked to, but that may not mean that all CFPs are operating in the same way in terms of the services that they offer or as well as in the fees that they’re charging, correct?

[00:17:44] KB: Yeah, that’s right. So it’s really a wide range of like different services and different fee structures that you can have. Kind of to be brief with it and not go down a rabbit hole, you can have CFPs that are comprehensive planners. So that’s like us here at YFP, where we go from one end of the spectrum to the other. We can help you buy a house, we can help you invest your 401(k), or we can help you improve your credit score, anything along the lines. So it’s really everything under that financial planning umbrella.

Or you can have CFPs that strictly do just investment management. This is going to be CFPs that worked directly with your investments, so like that employer retirement plan or that traditional IRA or Roth IRA that you may have. Just another different spectrum that you could be on is you could simply work at an insurance company, and you could be the financial planner that is selling the insurance, whether it’d be life insurance, disability, umbrella insurance. It’s a big world out there, and so your options are kind of limitless on what kind of services you provide.

Then as far as fees go, so really the three most common that most people have probably heard is a fee-based, commission-based, or a fee-only. So fee-only is what we are here at YFP. I’m sure we’ve mentioned it a few times on the podcast but fee-only basically. When you come on board with us, and we quote you your price to work with us, that is the price. That is what we are paid. We don’t get any kind of commissions or any kind of kickbacks or anything like that. Whereas with commission-based fees, that planner is going to work strictly off of the commissions that they make from selling you products.

Then fee-based gets a little sticky because it is where it can be a flat fee, but then you also receive kickbacks off of people’s investments or insurance policies or things like that. So fees and services can get a little bit sticky and can be a tad complicated, but that is in short are like the major ones that are the most common.

[00:19:44] TU: Yeah. As you described, Kim, it really is the Wild Wild West in terms of how services are constructed, how often you meet with a planner, what to expect, what they’re managing, what they’re doing, as well as the fees, and how those fees are assessed and charged. So that really means there’s due diligence on the client side to be asking the right questions as they’re conducting that search. We talked about this in detail in episode 54. Several other resources we have as well available at yfpplanning.com. Folks can look for more information there. But it really talks more about the model that we do at YFP Planning, as well as the concept of fee-only.

I want to just for a moment give an example, Kim, of fee-only and why we believe that matters. So you gave the definition of it. Let’s say you’re working with a client, Kim, and you determine that there’s a need for, let’s just say, long-term disability insurance on top of some employer coverage they may have. Well, under the fiduciary standard, under the fee-only model, as you work with that client to determine what the benefit need is, you’re not selling the insurance policy, number one, and you’re not getting any direct kickback for the recommendation of any specific product that you would be recommending.

In that case, you can really help evaluate objectively what does the client need, what does the client not need, and then help look at a variety of different options as they shop those policies around. So I think that many pharmacists that will resonate with them in terms of wanting to have unbiased recommendations as possible. To that point that I made that it’s important, we’re asking good questions to understand what do people do in terms of services and how do they charge. What are some questions that you would recommend, Kim, folks ask as they’re looking for a planner that is hopefully a good fit for them?

[00:21:25] KB: Yeah. So I think the first question you should ask is are you a fiduciary? Because simply, you want somebody that is going to give you advice based on your best interest, not the planner’s best interest. The second big one is like what qualifications do you have. You want to make sure that your planner is qualified to actually be giving you financial advice, and it’s not just somebody like posing as a financial planner. Then how are you paid is going to be another big one. So that’s going to tell you like, “Do they receive commission off of me like. Is this a fee-only relationship?” So how are you paid is a big one.

Then another one would be like how is our relationship going to work. So you want to make sure that you and the financial planner are on the same page about how the relationship will work between the two of you. So like how often will you meet? Like how will you manage my assets? How do you plan to help me buy a house? Like kind of what does the relationship look like? Other than those big questions, I would simply just make sure that you jive with that financial planner.

Talking about your finances is a very intimate conversation, so you want to make sure like you are comfortable with that financial planner because you’re going to have some intimate talks about your finances. So you want to make sure that you’re comfortable opening up with that person and that your personalities kind of go together. In that way, you feel comfortable talking to them, and you feel comfortable sharing details about your finances, and you don’t feel like you have to hold back because either personalities clash or because you’re not really comfortable opening up with them.

[00:23:03] TU: Great overview. As we always say, shout out to Justin here who does our business development and our discovery calls on the front end, it has to be a good fit from both ends, right? If you as a client are going to make an investment of time and money, and our planning time is going to make an investment in that relationship as well, there has to be a good fit, and that starts with expectations in terms of folks being on the same page. I think that starts with making sure you’re comfortable what that relationship looks like and by asking some good questions, as Kim just highlighted there.

Kim, do you have an anonymous success story or two that you can share of clients of YFP Planning that really highlights the impact that a CFP can have and that the planning team can also have at large?

[00:23:46] KB: Yeah. I actually have a really good example. I had even mentioned it to Robert to make sure he was okay with me sharing. When I told him the example that I was going to use, he was completely on board with it, so I’m excited. But we had these long-term clients. They’ve been around with YFP I think longer than I have, but they had gone through residency. The wife had already graduated, and she was in her career. But the husband was still in residency. It was cool to be able to watch him finish his residency program.

Then once he had finished, they moved states to be closer to where he had received a job. They were living in a townhome, and they had done a couple of budgeting meetings with us, make sure they were saving correctly and make sure that they were saving enough for retirement. Then the question came about. They were like, “Well, we want to buy a house.” Behind the scenes, they had done all the math to figure out how long they needed to save in order to have that 20 percent down payment that we always hear about when it comes to home buying.

They had figured out that it was going to take them five years to save a 20 percent down payment, and they were really in the dumps about it. Like they enjoyed where they live, but they also wanted to be homeowners. They wanted to get that next chapter in their life started. So we had a call with them. We could kind of tell that they were down in the dumps about it being five more years before they could even really begin to seriously look at houses and put in offers and everything. Then we made the recommendation to them. We told them like, “You are eligible for a doctor loan, which with the doctor loan, you don’t have to have the 20 percent down payment.” So we went through the whole process of educating them on what a doctor loan is and what those terms look like and like why they don’t need the 20 percent down payment.

Then it was literally like 30 days to the mark after that conversation. They were closing on their first house without a 20 percent down payment. At this point, they’ve probably moved in. I haven’t talked to them lately, though. But it was awesome to be able to help them realize like, “Hey, we don’t have to wait five years to buy a house. We can buy a house now.” So they were over the moon, they had found a home and that the home ownership chapter was beginning. It was awesome to watch, and it also just made me realize, and they even mentioned it. Like without the YFP Planning team, like who knows if they would have ever even known what a doctor loan was, and that it could have been five more years before they actually got in the home. So it was awesome to be able to help them make that transition into the next chapter of their life.

[00:26:24] TU: I love that story. Thanks for sharing. What I love about that too is when we think about the pharmacists home loan, doctor loan products, we’ve talked about them on the podcast before, one of the I think challenges that can be there is if folks aren’t really evaluating that home purchase in the context of the rest of the financial plan, is that home-buying can be exciting. It can be emotional. It can be stressful. We can easily find ourselves down a path of the home purchase that may not jive with the rest of the financial plan.

You are here. Robert is with a client and not only being able to open up a new avenue that maybe wasn’t considered to make this home purchase a reality, but also considering and evaluating that and the rest of the financial plan. So how does a home purchase fit with also making sure we’re progressing for retirement and with other financial goals as well? So really cool story to share, and I think one of the things that you and the planning team do so well is striking this balance between taking care of our future selves but also living a rich life today. Both are really important, and that’s a great story and example of why it is.

Kim, thank you so much for taking time, number one, to come on the show, and excited to get you in front of the YFP community, if folks don’t know who you are, aren’t familiar with you yet. Again, congratulations on all the hard work that went into getting the CFP. I would remind folks that we’ve got a great guide an overview of the nuts and bolts to hiring a financial planner. You can download that for free at yourfinancialpharmacist.com/nutsandbolts.

Then for folks that are hearing this and saying, “Hey, I’d love to learn more about the planning services offered by Kim and the rest of the team at YFP Planning,” you can book a free discovery call with Justin Woods, our Director of Business Development. You can do that by going to yfpplanning.com. So, Kim, again, thank you so much.

[00:28:11] KB: Yeah, thank you for having me.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:28:13] TU: Before we wrap up today’s episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, I want to, again, thank our sponsor, Splash Financial. If you’ve ever considered refinancing your loans, check your rate now through Splash Financial. If you qualify, refinancing could help get you a lower monthly payment on your student loans or get a lower interest rate. Splash helps you shop and compare loan refinancing offers across lenders nationwide. Browsing rates through Splash Financial is fast, free, and won’t impact your credit until you complete a full application.

Now, when you successfully refinance $50,000 or more, Splash Financial will give you an extra $500 in cash bonus using our link, splashfinancial.com/yfp. So check your rate today and see what you might be able to save at splashfinancial.com/yfp.

As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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YFP 255: Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career with Ashlee Klevens Hayes and Chris Cozzolino

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Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career with Ashlee Klevens Hayes and Chris Cozzolino

On this episode, sponsored by Insuring Income, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, welcomes back to the show Ashlee Klevens Hayes & Chris Cozzolino, two pharmacists and entrepreneurs. Together, they discuss the new book Ashlee and Chris have co-authored: ‘Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career: Real Life Advice from 50+ Pharmacy Leaders and Influencers.’

About Today’s Guests

Ashlee Klevens Hayes

Ashlee Klevens Hayes is a 3rd generation pharmacist who set out on a traditional pharmacy path that turned into so much more. She’s an initiator, a pharmacy entrepreneur, and career strategist. After graduating from The University of Southern California School of Pharmacy she completed a 2-year health system pharmacy administration residency at the University of Kentucky and then took on the position of Associate Director of Central Pharmacy Operations at UK. In 2017, she founded Rx Ashlee, a career development company that focuses on business development, branding, marketing, career pivots, and interview preparation for highly skilled professionals. Shortly after, she launched the Rx Buzz Podcast on the Pharmacy Podcast Network and started with the University of Southern California School of Pharmacy as a career strategist.

Chris Cozzolino

Chris Cozzolino is a recent pharmacy graduate (Class of 2020) from the University of Iowa and the Co-Founder of Uptown Creation, a B2B Business Development and Consulting Firm. Prior to pharmacy school, Chris founded an Amazon Dropshipping store, which he still has to this day. During his time in pharmacy school, he Co-Founded Uptown Creation. Uptown Creation began as an Instagram Growth and Consulting company but has evolved into a more full-service Business Development Firm. Chris has a passion for business and hopes to merge this with his love for the pharmacy community.

Episode Summary

Many people who graduate from pharmacy school can feel overwhelmed when entering the sector for the first time. Pharmacists often feel that their training and expectations of the field do not match the real-world pharmacy setting. Imagine if you could speak to some of the top people in the industry for advice and guidance to help you on your journey to a successful career. This goal was the object of today’s guests, Ashlee Klevens Hayes and Chris Cozzolino’s new book Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career: Real Life Advice from 50+ Pharmacy Leaders and Influencers. Their new book offers readers a wealth of information that can only be gained from experience, comprising over 50 interviews with respected and successful pharmacists and industry influencers. In this episode, listeners will learn about Chris and Ashlee, why they decided to write a book on the subject, the importance of interpersonal skills to becoming a successful pharmacist, and common traits that limit peoples’ potential. Chris and Ashlee speak about the gaps in what pharmacy school does not prepare you for, typical expectations of the pharmacy world from new practitioners, and how to adjust and find success in the various seasons of your career as a pharmacist.

Key Points From This Episode

Introduction and a brief background about today’s guests.
The motivation behind Ashlee’s and Chris’s decision to write a book.
What Chris’s and Ashlee’s overall goal of writing a book was.
A brief discussion about the importance of networking to become successful.
Examples of lessons learned while writing and interviewing people for the book.
Importance of soft skills to becoming a successful pharmacist.
How finding measures of success for different seasons of your career is important.
Common traits Chris and Ashlee noticed hold back people from reaching their full potential.
Where limiting thoughts come from for pharmacists.
Strategies that Chris uses to ensure that he is enjoying his current career path.
Where Chris learned how important enjoying the process is.
Ashlee explains the importance of mindset and how you see opportunities.
Chris tells us about his decision to self-publish as opposed to working with a publisher.
What Ashlee has enjoyed the most from the book writing process.

Highlights

“The goal of the book is really to try to bring out those authentic tidbits that you might not be able to get out of somebody unless you’re speaking to them over dinner or casually and not in a professional setting.” — Chris Cozzolino, PharmD [0:08:46]

“We’re in this limbo, in this transition of going from a very traditional marketplace to a very nontraditional marketplace. That is very scary and intimidating to people who are used to doing one plus one equals always two.” — Ashlee Klevens Hayes, PharmD, MHA, CELDC [0:19:49]

“If you’re able to enjoy getting there just as much as that final destination, I think that’s what happiness is.” — Chris Cozzolino, PharmD [0:22:20]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here. Thank you for listening to the YFP podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. What if I told you that you could interview 50 or more influential leaders within our profession? That would be incredible, right? Better yet, what if you could compile the key insights from those interviews for ongoing guidance and inspiration?

Doctors Ashlee Klevens Hayes and Chris Cozzolino have created that resource and Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career: Real Life Advice from 50+ Pharmacy Leaders and Influencers. These two leaders, innovators and entrepreneurs have demonstrated individually, how to own your PharmD, own your career. They have walked the walk, and while sharing their own insights and tips would produce a much needed resource, they decided instead to share the stage with some great minds in our profession.

[00:00:51] TU: Before we jump into the show and I talk with Ashlee and Chris about their book, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40 plus states. YFP Planning offers fee only high touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com.

Whether or not YFP Planning, financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacies achieve financial freedom. Okay, let’s hear from today’s sponsor and then we’ll jump into my interview with Ashlee and Chris.

This week’s podcast episode is brought to you by Insuring Income. Insuring Income is your source for all things term, life insurance and own occupation disability insurance. Insuring Income has a relationship with America’s top rated term life insurance and Disability Insurance Company, so pharmacists like you can easily find the best solutions for your personal situation. To better serve you. Insuring Income reviews all applicable carriers in the marketplace for your desired coverage, supports clients in all 50 states and make sure all of your questions get answered.

To get quotes and apply for term life or disability insurance, see sample contract from disability carriers or learn more about these topics. Visit insuringincome.com/yourfinancialpharmacist. Again that’s insuringincome.com/yourfinancialpharmacist.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:02:29] TU: Chris and Ashlee welcome.

[00:02:30] AKH: What’s up?

[00:02:32] CC: Excited to be here.

[00:02:34] TU: Both of you have been in front of the YFP community before, Ashlee way back when on episode 95 of the YFP podcast, Chris more recently on episode 28, but I don’t want to assume that folks know all the great things that you’re working on and who you are. So Chris, let’s start with you. Tell us a little bit more about yourself, your background into pharmacy and the work that you’re currently doing.

[00:02:57] CC: Yeah. My name’s Chris Cozzolino. I’m based in Iowa City, Iowa. I went to the University of Iowa for pharmacy school and graduated in 2020. I’m not currently practicing as a pharmacist, but while I was in pharmacy school in college, I was able to build a social media marketing business that does a lot of work with direct outreach and scheduling sales appointments for sales teams and business development reps. So that’s where my path is right now and really being in the thick of starting conversations with people, meeting people and doing things like this.

[00:03:31] TU: Awesome –

[00:03:33] AKH: You can’t say that you’re not a practicing pharmacist. You are.

[00:03:39] CC: I mean, I’m licensed and everything, so I can go practice at any point of time, but yeah.

[00:03:43] TU: That’s what I always tell Chris, my family and friends when they ask me a pharmacy question. I say, “You need to go talk to your local pharmacy.”

[00:03:51] AKH: Yes. Exactly.

[00:03:53] TU: How about for you? Tell us more about your background and the work that you’re doing now.

[00:03:58] AKH: Sure. I graduated pharmacy school a long time ago now. Then I did, I went to USC, so University State of California then I went to University of Kentucky. I was the first admin resident there. I think, it’s Health System Pharmacy, HSP. I don’t know. We didn’t have the lingo when I was back in residency, so I did that for a couple of years. Then I stayed on as the Operations Director of Bureaucratic Services. Then I transitioned to working for a medical device, pharmaceutical, a blend of a medical device at pharmaceutical company where I got this entrepreneurial mindset of why people are in pharma and they’re not pharmacists. I was confused. I didn’t know that existed. I thought you had to be a clinician to be in healthcare.

I worked for that company as an internal consultant for a couple of years, and then they ended up selling to a large pharmaceutical company and my position was severed in that transition in that purchase. For the first time in my career, I had a six month old daughter. I was the breadwinner. We were moving from Kentucky back to California, and I lost my job. It was a terrible situation, but it was the first time that I had the opportunity to take a step back and ask myself, what did I want to do with my career? What does success mean to me? How can I support my family, but still be around and how can I bring all of my different skillsets into just a different career?

With the blend of my pharmacy background, my business background, my operations background, I started RX Ashlee six years ago as a career strategist, and since then I’ve helped over 5000 pharmacies and mostly pharmacists, I would say 75% pharmacies and 25% health care professionals really thrive in their careers. That entails one-on-one services, keynote speaking engagements, workshops, seminars, webinars, podcast like this and then stuff like the little books that we get to write every once in a while, that Chris and I partnered in. So that’s been my our recent most fun passion project.

[00:06:03] TU: Six years with RX. Ashlee, where’s time gone? That’s wild. Yeah.

[00:06:08] AKH: I know, I mean, the first year or two, was my side hustle. It was definitely more of a let’s dabble in this and see where it goes. Then stuff got real once things started picking up and people were happy and clients are happy and that was happy and my husband was happy, I was like, all right, let’s see where this goes. So now it’s been it’s been amazing and I’m super grateful.

[00:06:29] TU: Why not? I’m sure this both with you before and I wholeheartedly mean, I have a ton of respect for both of you in terms of the work that you’ve done professionally of what I know of you guys personally. I think the value that you’re bringing to the profession of pharmacy is really inspiring to me. I know it’s having an impact on others. So we’re talking here today. Got my copy right here of your book that you guys recently launched, which is Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career: Real Life Advice From 50+ Pharmacy Leaders and Influencers, when Chris and Ashlee get together to collaborate on a book, I’m going to read it. Others should read it. There’s some great advice in here.

My first question here, and Chris I’ll kick it off with you is, you both are busy running your own businesses. Obviously you’ve got personal commitments as well, so why write a book? What inspired and led you to ultimately take on the task of putting this resource together?

[00:07:23] CC: Yeah. I think obviously Ashlee and I both like having our hands in pharmacy and Ashlee is a lot more on the forefront working with pharmacists on a daily basis, whereas I don’t get as much time to do that. Since I knew that I made it a goal of mine to make sure to stay active in the pharmacy community and be able to bring value from what my other passions are with business and entrepreneurship. There’s so many influencers in traditional entrepreneurship that spew the same messages that, if you’re in that ecosystem, you hear them over and over again, but if you’re not, you’ve probably never heard a lot of the even the clichés like, probably the most you’ve heard is your network is your network, which everybody here is it networking conferences.

There’s so many other tidbits from the entrepreneurship world and those influencers that have made my life a lot better to being able to bridge that into pharmacy. I’ve realize that a lot of other people gain value from that. Then on a secondary note, really wanting to tap into the brains of other people and take advantage of my ability as an extrovert to connect with people, have conversations and know that you can’t really pick at somebody’s brain unless you are talking to them or have a more real connection with them.

The goal of the book is really to try to bring out those authentic tidbits that you might not be able to get out of somebody unless you’re speaking to them over dinner or casually and not in a professional setting.

[00:08:59] TU: Yeah, that’s what I love about it. You can read it front to back if you want, and I think have a lot of takeaway, but also can sit on the desk and you can periodically have it as a source of inspiration. I hope, as I wrote as a challenge to folks in the forward to take advantage of the network that is inside of this book, right? Well, one of the things that and I know you guys have experienced this as well, when I talk with student pharmacists and even new practitioners and they’re talking boldly about ideas that they have, and they’re all energized, which is awesome. I said, “Hey, have you talked to so-and-so or have you thought about connecting with so-and-so?” There’s almost this fear that people are untouchable out there, that those are those people doing those things.

I’ve never run across a pharmacist that hasn’t been willing or another individual, especially if a connection can be made that isn’t willing to spend a few moments to share some wisdom advice, encouragement, and to connect you with someone else as well. I hope folks will take the advice that’s here, but also take it as an opportunity to connect with other individuals in the book.

[00:10:00] AKH: We just did that before the call, too. I mean, you guys, Tim, jumped on, said, “Hey, Chris, Ashlee is going to meet this person, you got to meet this person.” Then that is a trail of just amazing connections. You never know where it’s going to take you.

[00:10:13] TU: One of things I love about the way that you guys wrote this is that certainly the individuals that are here, it’s a diverse group of individuals, impressive titles and impressive accomplishments. I think what is most important is the insights into why they’ve been successful.

[00:10:29] AKH: Right.

[00:10:29] TU: I think that we can get hung up in a professional field that is highly credentialed of the number of letters we have after our name, and what titles we have. But what is it individually that has allowed those folks to be successful? As you guys distill the advice of these leaders, the 50+ individuals that are in this book. Chris, I’ll start with you. Did anything surprise you from the responses that came forward?

[00:10:54] CC: Yeah. I think it surprised me, but it makes a lot of sense looking back in hindsight. The biggest thing probably being that so much of the advice is very human advice and not necessarily profession, specific, while there are going to be those professions specific tidbits. It’s much more of the stuff that you don’t get by being a pharmacist. I think as pharmacists, we all go through so much training and that’s your day-to-day and everything. You’re so in the thick of it that being able to hear advice that goes bigger and beyond, just pharmacy as a profession, but more life advice and just profession advice. It’s still relative to healthcare, but has a bigger impact.

[00:11:40] TU: Yeah, there’s a vulnerability in the responses that I saw come through and into your comment earlier. That’s a lot of conversations over coffee to get that type of information that’s really here in one resource, but I was impressed with the vulnerability that came through and the responses and the humility that also came through and the responses. You can tell at least one of the themes I took away was a huge self-awareness among the individuals. So despite the success, despite the accomplishments, there’s great awareness into what has shaped them into the person and the leader that they are, but also what are the areas that they continue to improve upon to get better. I think that humility is really refreshing to read and to see as a team in the book. Ashlee, any significant takeaways for you?

[00:12:24] AKH: Well it’s interesting, because I train people on how to have humility and how to practice self-awareness every single day. When I saw the responses, I was like, “Yes, this is meat and potatoes that I’m trying to get into pharmacy practice.” It wasn’t necessarily surprising to me. It was more on par to what I believe in. It’s just nice that people are talking about it, because when I started blogging, when I started giving keynotes to pharmacists six or seven years ago, it was a very uncomfortable space, I think. People are, “Wow, you’re so brave. We’re talking about this.” It’s like, this is normal stuff. Why aren’t people talking about relationships, about marriages, about how to have a family, how to go through traumas in your life like divorce and still maintain a successful career?

When I started seeing these conversations pop up within some of the dialog and the conversations that we were having with the people who contributed to the book, I was like, “Thank you for just being open and honest and real.” Because I don’t think we – especially coming out of pharmacy school, I think you’re in this little bit of a bubble, not a little bit. You are in a bubble of what’s to be expected in the pharmacy world. Then you get into it and you’re like, “Wait a minute. No one told me about this stuff.”

Then I to say every level comes with a new double, so just because, I gave an example of just a recent grad, but ten years out, 20 years out, 30 years out, 40, 50 years out. Every season comes with a different challenge. A lot of the people that we brought into the book talked about the different seasons.

[00:14:02] TU: Yeah. Ashlee, every level comes with the new dev. I’m going to quote that for here. That’s a good one –

[00:14:07] AKH: I don’t know, if that’s me quote or I’ve learned it from somewhere else. So sorry, if someone else said it, but I just remember, I’ve been saying that a lot lately, because I’m in a different season of my life than I was ten years ago. I think no one told me to prepare for that. I think it’s really important for the readers or for people listening to understand to finding success at different, different seasons in your career is really important.

[00:14:29] TU: 100%. One of the things that really has hit me across the head over the last couple of years, but I would say has been a journey really over the last decade is I’m slowly realizing more and more that my mindset as I think about our business, what we’re working on and trying to transform the financial wellness of the pharmacist workforce. The greatest contribution that I can bring to our business to achieve the vision and the mission that we have is the mindset that I bring to see the potential of who we are and who we can become.

There’s a whole lot and I’m covering that of what are the limitations that someone puts upon themselves, where did those come from? How do we advance through the next level or bust through the next ceiling? Why does that ceiling even exist in the first place? There’s just so much to uncover there, but those are things in pharmacy school you’re not even thinking about and you start to see whether people use mindset, those words or not. That to me came through loud and clear in this book was the development of it. I get to talk with pharmacists everyday.

One of my greatest joys is when I get to talk with an individual that has a spark of an idea or has something creative they want to pursue. They just need a little push or a little bit of nudge, because they have a lot of self-doubts and fears and anxieties and a lot of things that it’s prevented them from moving forward with that idea and they need some challenging encouragement. So my question here related to that is, for many pharmacists to feel like, “Hey, I may not be the living to my full potential, I feel there’s something else that might be there. What did you take away as you compile this as one or two things that are often holding back pharmacies from really living to that full potential?

[00:16:11] CC: Yeah. I think the big one is fear of the unknown, just with the personality types that are in pharmacy and health care. We like structure. We like things that are known. It’s a little bit more difficult for us to push ourselves out of our comfort zones. I think for one, fear of losing a job or letting somebody down in your work, which from my experience, seeing other pharmacists, most pharmacists aren’t even close to the point of letting people down, but they’re still working vigorously to not let anybody down.

I think that so to take that a little bit further, the knowledge that you can always get another job, you can always take a year off and your life is going to be pretty much the same. That’s outside of having financial responsibilities. You need to be able to cover those financial responsibilities. But even if it’s you need to go part time to do some self-discovery, still make the money that you can support yourself, your family, your loved ones, but take the time to explore something else.

I don’t think anybody’s going to regret doing that if they’re able to have the conviction to take a leap of faith to do whatever that thing is or explore whatever that new area is. It doesn’t have to be outside of pharmacy, it could be just another roll in pharmacy or another area of pharmacy that is of interest to you. It’s never too late, which is such a cliche thing. I mean, it’s true.

[00:17:44] AKH: There’s a lot of people that talk about that in the book.

[00:17:46] TU: That fear of not letting other people down. I think you’re on to something there. Not to say thats unique to pharmacists, but I see that a lot inside of our profession like what is that? Where does that come from? Chris, I think your comment is spot on. It’s so far from that, right? But it can be paralyzing and it can be crippling when you’re operating each day with that fear. Not that I’m expecting you guys, but the crystal ball answer on this, but where does that come from? Why is that?

[00:18:15] AKH: Again, similar to what you said Tim, like this isn’t just a pharmacist thing that if I speak to pharmacists and I am a pharmacist and I’ve been around pharmacists, my best friends are pharmacists. I feel like I live, breathe and eat pharmacy, but I feel we think that we had to have it figured out. I feel like a lot of the people I work with have to know precisely what the next step is going to look like similar to what Chris said. I get the sense that we need a checklist, that we need one plus one always equals two. I mean, there’s no other way around it, right? There’s no gray.

In this ecosystem, in this non-traditional career marketplace, this gig economy, this crazy 2022 world, it’s just not as black and white as it used to be. So, my God, I’m a third generation pharmacist. So when my grandfather graduated he opened up a pharmacy and he did well. Then my dad graduated and he opened a pharmacy, but then he also had all these other gigs going on, and he had a pension plan, and he didn’t have student loans. His first car was a Porsche, like life was not terrible for him.

My experience was completely different. I have student loans. I do not have a Porsche. One day I will. My career has been really windy and I’ve been out for ten, 11, 12 years. I’ve had multiple different roles and not, because of anything other than advancing my career, but also wanting to do different things. I have different passions. I have different experiences, I have different skillsets. I think what happened is we’re in this limbo, in this transition of going from a very traditional marketplace to a very non-traditional marketplace. That is very scary and intimidating to people who are used to doing one plus one equals always two.

There’s no specific checklist, and that’s a lot of what the book talks about. That’s a lot of what I work on with my clients of, it takes time, but it actually pans out. It’s going to work out. So I think we’re just scared of that in limbo stage, if not knowing what looks like next.

[00:20:17] TU: Yeah. I was thinking about this a lot recently, Ashlee, and messy and non-linear, the words that keep coming in mind, and that is if we think back to our educational experience, it was clean and linear.

[00:20:26] AKH: Totally.

[00:20:29] TU: Messy and non-linear I think is where the magic happens. It can be painful like –

[00:20:34] AKH: Very painful.

[00:20:35] TU: It can be uncomfortable, but I think that’s where a lot of the self-discovery happens is in the messy and the non-linear. I think that when I read folks responses in the book that you can see that self-discovery, you can see that journey that the folks have been on. It wasn’t what they thought it was going to be at the beginning, typically.

[00:20:54] AKH: No.

[00:20:54] TU: Right.

[00:20:55] AKH: No, no way.

[00:20:55] TU: Which is exciting, I think. I want to give people a flavor of the book, and I’m going to do that by putting you guys on the hot seat with some your own responses. In the book, so each of you have a chapter in the book that you wrote similar to other of the 50+ plus leaders that responded. Chris, for the question where, what one piece of career advice would you give to your younger self? You said the following. “Enjoy the process. If you focus on enjoying the journey to your destination rather than fixating on the goal you will be happier. If you don’t want the process, you may not be on the right path.” Easier said than done, right? My question for you is, what strategies have you employed that you’re not just focused on the outcome that may or may not come into the future and it likely, if it does come, is going to be fleeting, but rather your focus on the day-to- day process and really having enjoyment in that. What strategies have you employed for that?

[00:21:44] CC: I mean, for one, I’m lucky that I’m able to do the things that don’t feel work to me and that spark joy within me. Yeah, that mindset of it, is a little bit of Gary Vaynerchuk and that’s one of the examples of an entrepreneur that a lot of health care and pharmacy people probably haven’t heard of, but spews the same messages that are very relevant. But the concept of enjoying the process and being able to have gratitude for the day-to-day that you’re able to do and you can have lofty goals and have goals that you’re trying to hit. But if you’re able to enjoy getting there just as much as that final destination, I think that’s what happiness is.

Finding a role, finding a position, finding a lifestyle that is conducive of that definitely takes a lot of trial and error. I don’t think anybody ever figures it out 100%, but trying to get closer to that and just doing the things that are enjoyable. I think again, going back to the ability to self-reflect and know what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, but more so, what you enjoy doing and what you don’t enjoy doing and how that plays into your day-to-day and how you can structure it to do the things that you don’t enjoy doing. Maybe get those out of the way and then put more effort into the things you do enjoy.

[00:23:08] TU: As I hear you say that, there’s a lot of wisdom in that. I admire that as someone who’s pretty darn early on in their career, where does that wisdom come from? Is that experience? Is that mentorship? Where are you able to get some of that, in terms of enjoying the process?

[00:23:27] CC: Yeah. I think I’ve always been one to take risks, which I’m lucky to have that affinity to taking risk, which has allowed me to do an entrepreneurial route and taste a bunch of different things to see what I like and inevitably find the things that I enjoy and don’t enjoy. My parents played a big part in it, encouraging me to try different things and being supportive of that. I think having that support system that’s going to be encouraging to you and a base of people that you’re able to bounce ideas off of and like you were saying earlier, Tim, to some extent was having people that you can bounce ideas off of and let them nudge you in the right direction. It’s probably going to be the direction you’re already headed, but there’s a lot to be said about just somebody giving you that affirmation that it’s okay to do this thing that you’re thinking about. It’s not going to burn down everything that you’ve worked for.

[00:24:25] TU: It’s okay to go down the messy non-linear path, right? It’s okay. It’s okay. Great stuff. I appreciate that. Ashlee, one of the questions that you responded to and what advice would you share with the pharmacy friend who feel stuck in their current role and burntout? You gave several responses, but one of those responses, you said, “Burnout and feeling stuck are not the same thing. Burnout means you need a break, need tighter boundaries, and might need to refocus on your priorities. Feeling stuck is a feeling of a fixed mindset. Change the way you look at opportunities. It will change your life.” If Ashlee says it’s going to change your life, I’m going to listen. So what do you mean by the fixed mindset and what do you mean about changing the way you look at opportunities?

[00:25:08] AKH: Yeah. I like that answer. It’s been a while. I’ve had a whole pregnancy in between my answers and today. I like it. The fixed mindset versus, I can’t recall the stuff in my head, who talked about it. It was Stanford faculty professor who coined this many years ago, a psychiatrist. The fix-mindset versus the growth-mindset is the growth-mindset just loves feedback, loves to change, loves adapting, loves getting constructive support, loves improving. Whereas the fix-mindset is, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, change is rough. I don’t really want to know about other things. I want to just stay on this path. Someone just needs to tell me how to fix a few things, and then I’m going to do it, and then it’s going to be fixed.

I get the sense that a lot of clients in the past have been down that fixed-mindset and only believe that they are capable of doing very limited things. It’s very challenging for me to convince them, that’s not my job to convince them, but I do try to encourage them with convincing them with data of, listen, you have so many opportunities in front of you, you have to actually believe that what’s capable for yourself. I can’t sit here and tell you what is capable despite the data, despite the facts, despite showing you percentages and just showing you other people’s LinkedIn profiles, other people’s CV’s, it doesn’t matter. You have to actually believe that there’s other opportunities for you.

I think a lot of pharmacies get stuck in that, “No, I have a B or an RPH, and this is just what my life is going to be. I’m going to be counting pills forever.” I’ve never had that, so to some degree, I have a hard time connecting with those people too, because I’m like, “Wait, why do you think there’s so many opportunities here? Go here, go LinkedIn, go look at all these different people, all across the world doing really radical life changing things with the same accolades and the same degrees that we have.

[00:27:04] TU: Yeah. I think to that point, if one can’t visualize what could be and if one can’t affirm themselves in that role or that being possible for them, that’s going to come through and how you approach every day. If you do end up pursuing a career change or a job interview, or you’re going to pursue all of it with that fixed-mindset as you’re describing it.

[00:27:25] AKH: Don’t give me wrong. Self-doubt, it’s definitely, it’s still there.

[00:27:29] TU: 100%.

[00:27:30] AKH: It’s okay to have somewhat limiting beliefs. It’s okay to have, I don’t like to say imposter syndrome, but it’s okay to not feel like you’re good enough. You have to commit to taking steps to get through that mindset. It’s for me it’s taken many, many, many years. I’m still working on it. There’s still things that freak me out that I’m like there’s no way I’m going to do that. There’s no way that people will do that with me either. I think if you have courage and if you have like Chris said, the right people around you and just a tad bit of strategy that I love teaching. I think that’s what matters the most.

[00:28:03] TU: I love it. Great, great stuff, you guys. Chris, for those that are listening that want to publish their own book, it’s something I hear a lot among pharmacists and other health care professionals as a goal that they have. Talk to us more about the process that you guys went through –

[00:28:19] AKH: Me just tagging him.

[00:28:20] TU: Why self-publish versus working with the publisher to tell us more about that journey.

[00:28:25] CC: Yeah. Ashlee, was definitely my guide on this.

[00:28:31] AKH: No, it was just more like, “Chris. I need this. Chris need that.”

[00:28:34] CC: Since she had already gone through the process, she knew the buttons to press, technically to do the publishing. One takeaway is that the actual route of getting words once you have them into book form isn’t that difficult. The hardest part is obviously getting the words there in the first place. If something’s stopping you, because you don’t know how difficult it’s going to be to self-publish that is very achievable. Again, Ashlee did a lot of the legwork on that, but from what I’ve seen and the way that she’s spoken about it, I know that it’s very doable and it was quicker than what I had even expected after we got in the words on the paper. But that was the part of the process that was the most time consuming and then editing and refining and making it tell the narrative that you wanted to tell in the format that you want to do that in.

Which I think goes into, why we wrote the book the way that we did. A big point that Ashlee and I both feel is that we’re stewards of the book since we have our passages, but then there’s also 50+ people that have their passages as well. It’s just as much their book as it is ours, which is for one of the reasons why we’re looking into making partnerships with organizations like AMCP to be able to donate any of the profits from the book to support student pharmacists and use this as not a vector that brings a ton to Ashlee and myself, but more of a way that it can be an evergreen novel and ever-evolving advice that is for the profession of pharmacy and that it’s as simple as that and not for anybody else.

[00:30:27] AKH: Yeah, and just to piggyback off that, Chris and I met four years ago on LinkedIn, I think, or some social media –

[00:30:33] CC: Yeah.

[00:30:34] AKH: We actually got to meet in person at AMCP. I was giving a keynote and Chris was a student. Tim, going back to your question of Chris, how have you become so wise and where does this come from? I plucked him out from the group and I could tell early on that he’s really smart, but also he’s a very, very good heart and really good intentions. Those are my favorite kind of people. So we’ve kept in touch over the years, and I’ve always begged Chris, to do some type of collaboration with me. I was like, “Let’s just do something we both love pharmacy and we both want to give back.”

Finally I told him, I was like, “Chris, I’m pregnant. It is done. We have to do it now or it’s never going to happen.” He promised me that we would do something before that in my pregnancy, and it’s coming, so we did it right in time. It was just the best project, Chris and then I couldn’t have asked for a better, more supportive partner to do this with. It’s been fun.

[00:31:32] TU: I love it, because I think that from my experiences while writing, when you find the right co-author and the right person in your jiving on the same page, it really is a rewarding experience. There’s accountability of course, it comes as a benefit. Ashlee, you’ve been through this before, you authored, Influential Dad, Empowered Daughter. We’ll be waiting for book number three.

[00:31:52] AKH: My goal is to write, once you get writing –

[00:31:55] TU: Fun.

[00:31:55] AKH: Well personally, my personal experience is once you get writing. I blogged for several years before this, so it’s not I’m a new writer-ish. Writing a book is totally different mindset, but once you get the bug, and once you see the impact, and once you see your contribution to the universe, and how people are writing to you from all over the world, and just how much you’ve touched them, how much you’ve challenged them, how much you’ve changed their perspective. Connections, the especial with this book, there’s a lot of people who are reading the book and then going out and connecting with all the different leaders and all different influencers, which is the goal of the book.

It really just for me personally, it motivates me to keep going. So I’m in the process even though Chris and I just published our last book, I don’t know, a couple of weeks ago. I already have a new book in mind. I already – my goal is to write it off open which I’m really, let’s see if that happens. Hold me accountable, Chris. For me, it’s like a bug. It’s like how can I help more people and how can I share my niche and my expertise with more people? Because again, like Chris said, once you write one, you understand the technicalities.

Now going the other route, the publisher getting a book agent doing all that, I’ve never done, but it is on my bucket list, but self-publishing is honestly just it’s for me personally, it’s been really valuable just to get your word into the world.

[00:33:17] TU: I love that. I would encourage both of you, because I feel very strongly that when you’re writing or sharing in another medium in a way that’s having an impact on others, you have a responsibility to keep doing it, if it’s having an impact. So I look forward to continuing to follow both of you in the journey. For folks that want to pick up a copy of Own Your PharmD, Own Your Career: Real Life Advice from 50+ Pharmacy Leaders and Influencers, you can pick it up on Amazon. Chris, Ashlee, thank you both so much for not only putting this together, but also for coming on and having this discussion. I appreciate your time.

[00:33:52] AKH: Yeah. Tim, we didn’t really talk about your foreword. I mean, you wrote a great foreword, too, for us. When Chris and I started working on the book, I was like, “Tim has to be person.” Then you guys officially met and Chris and I were like, “Oh, yeah, Tim’s definitely – ” You have such a great voice in the profession and you’re such an advocate and I mean, you fit right in with all of these other interviewers that we’ve been doing, and we both just really admire your work and appreciate the opportunity to connect with you. Thanks for taking the time to write such a great foreword. It was powerful. Even if you just read the foreword, I thought, I was like, “Oh, my gosh, this is really good.” So it was good.

[00:34:25] TU: Well, thanks for the opportunity. I was humbled to be able to do it, so it’s fun to be a part of it. Again, read it when it all came together. Congratulations to you guys and thanks again for joining.

[00:34:35] AKH: Thank you.

[00:34:35] CC: Thanks for having us.

[OUTRO]

[00:34:36] TU: Before we wrap up today’s show, let’s hear an important message from our sponsor, Insuring Income. If you are in the market to add own occupation disability insurance, term life insurance or both. Insuring Income would love to be a resource. Insuring Income has relationships with all of the high quality disability insurance and life insurance carriers you should be considering and can help you design coverage to best protect you and your family.

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For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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Cryptocurrency 101 for the Pharmacy Professional

Posted on by yfpadmin

Cryptocurrency 101 for the Pharmacy Professional

The following is a guest post from Samantha Boartfield, PharmD. Samantha Boartfield is a pharmacist in Phoenix, Arizona, who also writes for women and mother entrepreneurs (Mamapreneurs) on her site at SamanthaBrandon.com.

Disclaimer: This post is intended for general, educational purposes only. This post and the information herein is in no way meant to serve or act as a replacement for professional investment advice. Investing in cryptocurrency may be high risk with high losses and should be done at the sole risk of the investor. The following post contains affiliate links through which YFP may receive compensation.

I used to wave off cryptocurrency, thinking it was an online currency fad exclusive to techies and gamers. It seemed like one giant experiment (and I’m no gambler), but I think you could argue that we’re already in phase III of this currency trial with millions of users already testing the waters. Are we in the 1990s of the internet, and will crypto become a revolutionizing technology that changes our entire financial system? Or is this going to be the digital tulip craze 2.0?

Only time will tell, but before you get caught in the hype, it’s more important to understand the foundations behind cryptocurrency to make that determination for yourself.

Let’s start from the beginning with the history of money.

The Origins of National Currency

It’s hard to understand cryptocurrency without understanding the simple concept of money. Why do we as a society put any value into the U.S. Dollar? After all, it is a piece of paper that doesn’t serve a single human need like food or shelter (a house made of dollar bills certainly doesn’t seem very stable).

It all started in the early days of bartering. You know, I’ll give you five tomatoes in exchange for a kilo of flour. The trouble with that is you can’t grow a large society based on that type of trading system. How many tomatoes would it take to buy a house? What if you still wanted those tomatoes, but the tomato producer needed olive oil instead?

That’s where currency comes into play. It acts as a medium of exchange so that indirect transfer of goods can be made. Instead of trading direct goods, we exchange currency that has a unit of measurement. Fast-forwarding the history of a few millennia (salt, seashells, metal coins, gold, paper notes), we now find ourselves using national currencies.

Fiat Currency

No, I’m not talking about the Italian car driving down the Amalfi coast. Investopedia defines fiat currency as “government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity such as gold or silver, but rather by the government that issued it.” The reason the U.S. Dollar has value (and other countries’ currencies) is because it is backed by the United States government. That’s why if you go to another country and try to spend your dollars, they may not accept it or give you a funny look. Your dollar bills aren’t worth anything in their economy since there’s no guarantee from their government that those specific paper bills will hold any value tomorrow, next week, or even next year!

Since leaving the gold standard, fiat currency has had its benefits, including being traded as a widely accepted legal tender, the relative stability for short-term and long-term investments, and a central authority to help manage the economy.

The Pitfalls of Fiat

Taking a step back, there is one crucial aspect we need to remember about the history of currencies. There has always been a transition to a newer currency because the newer currency met a need that the former did not. Gold trumped silver thanks to its scarcity of resources and its chemical stability. The gold standard gave way to fiat because it couldn’t keep up with the demand.

So what about the pitfalls of fiat money? Although it’s hard to fathom a world not operating on the dollar, I believe if you asked your parents or grandparents if they believed the majority of transactions would be done with a phone or plastic card, they would laugh at you. It would have been unfathomable to not be using physical dollars and coins.

And now we find ourselves asking if fiat currency will give way to cryptocurrency due to the pitfalls we are facing such as:

Inflation or Hyperinflation: This article couldn’t be timed better as we all have felt the effects of inflation. If you keep printing money, then money loses its value. Milton Friedman said it best, “Inflation is taxation without legislation.” Check out Episode 239 on the YFP Podcast where Tim and Tim talk more about inflation.
Rise of the “Bubble”: Remember the mortgage crisis in 2007? Central banks weren’t able to prevent it.

This is a good time to transition to what is cryptocurrency, and if it can solve some of these problems we’ve discussed.

Step Aside Printing: It’s All About Mining and Staking.

BlockChain

Let’s first discuss the technology behind cryptocurrency, which is blockchain digital ledger technology. A digital ledger is a way to record transactions using code. When you hear people talk about “the blockchain,” they’re referring to the fact that these digital ledgers are chained together.

In simple terms, this is how it works:

A transaction is made and verified by computers in the network. The transaction is then stamped as a block and added to the end of the chain. Once it’s added to the chain, it cannot be altered or removed.

The best part about this technology is that it doesn’t require a central authority to manage or verify these transactions! So what does that mean for us?

Well, let’s say you wanted to buy your friend a coffee with cryptocurrency. The transaction would go something like this:

You and your friend’s computers would communicate that you want to make a transaction.

Your transaction is verified by the network of computers, and once it’s verified, it gets added as a block to the chain.

Your friend now has his coffee and you have your cryptocurrency. Yay!

Consensus Mechanisms

Now, all blockchains have this foundation, but they may differ slightly. One way they differ is with their consensus mechanisms, which are essentially the way that the network of computers agrees on the validity of a transaction.

The two most common consensus mechanisms are proof-of-work (POW) and proof-of-stake (POS).

Proof-of-Work (PoW)

With PoW, also known as mining, transactions are verified by computer nodes that solve complex mathematical problems. The first node to solve the problem gets to add the next block of transactions to the chain and is rewarded with cryptocurrency for their trouble! This is known as “mining” cryptocurrency.

Proof-of-Stake (PoS)

With PoS, instead of being rewarded for solving math problems, nodes are chosen randomly to verify transactions and add blocks based on how much cryptocurrency they have “staked” or put down as collateral. This system is said to be more energy-efficient than POW because there is no need for every single computer to solve the same mathematical problems as they race to be the fastest.

Which consensus mechanism is better? They both have their pros and cons.

The big thing to know is that PoW requires a lot of energy because you have thousands of computers working on the same problem. This is what makes PoS mechanisms more appealing.

Now, what exactly is Cryptocurrency?

Cryptocurrency is digital or virtual currency that uses blockchain technology. Each cryptocurrency will use a slightly different form of blockchain. A defining feature of cryptocurrencies is that they are not issued by any central authority like fiat currencies – which means they are decentralized! Cryptocurrencies are sent directly from person to person over the internet without going through a financial institution.

The Basics

We need to spend a moment discussing how to buy, sell, or trade crypto.

Where to Buy, Sell, and Trade

Cryptocurrency exchanges are websites where you can buy, sell, or trade cryptocurrencies. You’ll need to create an account on the exchange and then deposit funds into that account to buy crypto. Some popular exchanges are Coinbase, Binance, and Kraken.

How to Store

You can definitely keep your coins on your cryptocurrency exchange. For example, if you bought some Bitcoin through Coinbase, you don’t need to do anything else.

But seeing as the main focus of crypto is to be one hundred percent decentralized, many users want to secure their own coins. This is where you can place them in a software wallet like MetaMask or MathWallet, which has its own password called a “seed phrase.” This seed phrase is similar to a PIN for a debit card.

How to Secure

If you have invested a lot of money into crypto, you don’t want to leave it up to hackers to steal it. Unlike a bank account, there’s no one to get you your money back if it’s stolen. That’s where “cold” wallets come in. Trezor or Ledger are the most popular, and you can think of these as a USB drive that stores your coins offline.

How to Keep Track

Once you’ve started to invest in cryptocurrency, it’s important to know how much money you’ve invested, which is easily done through a cryptocurrency portfolio tracker.

Don’t forget that regulations have now been passed to help you easily report any income you’ve made from crypto gains. You’ll probably want to check out crypto tax reporting software as well.

Types of Crypto

Today, there are nearly a thousand different types of cryptocurrencies out there. Let’s break them down.

Bitcoin

Bitcoin is the original cryptocurrency, and it was created in 2009 by Satoshi Nakamoto. Bitcoin is a decentralized cryptocurrency that uses PoW consensus mechanism to verify transactions.

Altcoin

Altcoin is short for “alternative coins,” AKA any coin that is not bitcoin. You can sell and buy altcoins similarly to Bitcoin. Here are the most common Altcoins:

Ether: Ether is used on the Ethereum network and is very popular as it’s the crypto of choice for buying and selling NFTs. It was a PoW, but will fully transition to PoS by the end of 2022.
Dogecoin: Dogecoin was created as a joke, but it quickly grew in popularity. Dogecoin is a decentralized, peer-to-peer digital currency that allows you to send money online.
Solana: Solana is another proof-of-stake consensus coin and promises to be more scalable than other blockchains.

Stablecoin

A stablecoin is a cryptocurrency that is pegged to an asset with a stable value, such as gold or the U.S. dollar. The purpose of a stablecoin is to avoid the volatility that is common among other cryptocurrencies.

The most popular stablecoins are:

Tether (USDT): Tether is pegged to the U.S. dollar and it’s one of the most popular.
USDC: USDC is another USD-backed stablecoin, and it’s available on many different cryptocurrency exchanges.
DAI: DAI is a decentralized stable coin that aims to stay as close to the U.S. dollar as possible.

The Good and the Bad

Hopefully, by now, you understand why money plays a vital role in society, and our large-scale economies could not operate without it. You can understand that the tool we use as a medium for exchange also evolves as technology changes. So the question remains, could cryptocurrency play a parallel role with fiat money or could it be something that replaces it altogether?

The Crypto Advantage

Crypto has many unique advantages that can solve some of the problems we have with fiat currency.

Lower inflation risk: In a fiat currency, the government can print out more money. Not Bitcoin. Only 21 million can be mined and that’s it.
Money without borders: You can transfer Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency to anyone in the world without paying any fees, and it will arrive in minutes.
Fraud prevention: Another advantage of cryptocurrency is that it can help prevent fraud. With traditional methods of payment, it is easy for someone to commit fraud by using a stolen credit card or bank account.

The Hurdles

What could stop cryptocurrency from being adopted worldwide? Well, quite a few things, as there are tons of concerns that we have seen arise.

Ease of Use: There’s quite a learning curve when it comes to buying and selling crypto, so I don’t see it becoming more mainstream until this process is streamlined and people have an easier way of understanding crypto.
Volatility: The value of cryptocurrencies can rise and fall quite quickly, making them a huge concern for investments. Stablecoin may help with this in the future.
Government regulation: Government regulation will have a huge hand in dictating the future crypto. We have seen what happened with China when they banned cryptocurrency exchanges. This caused the value of bitcoin to drop by over 50%, but I don’t see the U.S. banning cryptocurrency. Recently, the U.S. has already given some guidance on how to report it, and now there’s crypto taxing software to help you.
Company adoption: We will need to see the market begin to accept cryptocurrency as a form of payment.

Crypto Crystal Ball

In the end, only time will tell what the future holds for cryptocurrencies. Maybe we’ll become the crypto century, or maybe not. That’s for you to evaluate.

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YFP 254: Home Buying Search: What to Do and What to Avoid

Posted on by yfpadmin

Home Buying Search: What to Do and What to Avoid

Nate Hedrick, The Real Estate RPh and co-host of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, discusses evaluating online home listings, why open houses exist, how real estate agents get paid, and how the home buying concierge service he developed can help first-time homebuyers.

Episode Summary

Searching for a house to buy can be overwhelming, particularly in today’s fast-paced market. There are several tools for potential home buyers to help them navigate the process, but these can often be confusing. This week, Your Financial Pharmacist Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, welcomes back Nate Hedrick, the Real Estate RPh and co-host of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, to discuss what to do and what to avoid in the home buying process. Nate shares four areas you should evaluate when reviewing home listings on the MLS or various real estate sites like Redfin, Zillow, or Realtor.com. He also gives insight into the real reason for an open house, why he prefers private viewings over open houses, how agents get paid, and why it is in your best interest to have your own agent. Listeners will hear some common-sense advice for homebuyers in the current market, general advice on making an offer, the purpose of signing in when visiting an open house, and what to do when asked who your agent is during a viewing. Lastly, Nate explains how the YFP Real Estate Concierge Service works with clients from the beginning to the end of the real estate buying process for first-time buyers and investors.

Key Points From This Episode

The resources that prospective buyers can use to search for homes.
Nate gives us an outline of the Multiple Listing Service (MLS).
What to look out for when viewing listings.
Being able to react quickly to the market to secure a purchase.
Steps to take when viewing a property listing.
The purpose of signing in when viewing a house
What to do when asked about an agent.
Advice on what to do when making an offer.
Rules and regulations regarding listing and buying agents.
The benefits of using a real estate agent when home buying.
A brief rundown of the YFP Real Estate Concierge Service.
Some of the challenges that first-time homebuyers are experiencing.
The best time to start the home buying process.

Highlights

“The things that are missing can be just as evident from the things that are present. Look at those pictures, but also look at what’s not in the pictures.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:07:11]

“I recommend doing a private showing. It’s a great way to get into the house early so that you can really take things on quickly and you can take your time.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:11:32]

“I’ve seen situations where it saves the buyer thousands of dollars because a real estate agent catches something or knows how to ask for something really important.” — Nate Hedrick, PharmD [0:17:26]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody, Tim Ulbrich here. Thank you for listening to the YFP podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I had a chance to welcome back a friend of the show, Nate Hedrick, the real estate and RPH and co-host of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast. Some of my favorite moments from the show include hearing Nate describe the four areas you should be evaluating when reviewing home listings on the MLS or various sites like Redfin, Zillow, or Realtor.com.

The real reason open houses exist and why a private showing is preferred over an open house. How the agents get paid and why is the buyer’s in your best interest to have your own agent? How the home buying concierge service that Nate developed can help a first time homebuyer navigate the process from beginning to end? Folks can learn more about their concierge service and get connected with a local agent by visiting yourfinancialpharmacist.com, and then click on Home buying at the top of the page.

Before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40 plus states. YFP Planning offers fee only high touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com.

Whether or not YFP Planning, financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacies achieve financial freedom. Okay. Here’s my interview with Nate Hedrick, the Real Estate RPH.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:42] TU: Nate, welcome back to the show.

[00:01:43] NH: Hey, Tim, always good to be here.

[00:01:45] TU: You and I both know that searching for a house can be an overwhelming process. I’ve gone through the process twice, to be honest. As exciting as it was at times, it was stressful. Not sure I really want to do it again. But here’s the thing. on one hand, we have great access to data, right? With services like Zillow, Redfin, I’m a fan, realtor.com that pulls information from the Multiple Listing Service, the MLS all over the country. But on the other hand, there’s not a lot of direction on what to do with all that information. What’s important? How do I schedule showing? When is the next open house? How do I submit an offer? So today we’re bringing you back on the show to talk and walk us through how to navigate all of this.

Before we jump in to our interview, I want to make sure to remind our listeners that there are some really important financial steps that you should be taking to make sure you’re actually ready to purchase a home, before we go down the rabbit hole that can be searching. So Nate put together a great article on how to manage buying a house despite having student loan debt. We’re going to link to that in the show notes, that was on the YFP blog. We’ve done a few podcast episodes dating way back to September 2018, where we talked through six steps to buying a home. That was a two part series. We did episode 64 and 65. Again, we’ll link to those in the show notes.

These articles, these episodes are really important that we’re laying the foundation. Are we ready before we get into the search? So Nate, let’s assume our listeners have done that up front work. They’re preapproved with a lender and now they’re actually ready to search. Of course there are sites like Zillow and Redfin, but are those the best places to search for homes?

[00:03:23] NH: Yeah. I mean those sites are fine and really great in many cases, but one of the problems with those sites is that they can be out of date, right? So what those sites do, in effect as they pull data, like you mentioned, they pull data from the Multiple Listing Service, which is really the source of truth, and it’s updated by real estate agents. Until those sites are updated the sites like Zillow and Redfin can’t pull the new data. Sometimes they do that scraping slowly and sometimes they do it more quickly.

I have seen examples multiple, multiple times, where clients have reached out and said, “Oh, Nate, can we go look at this place? It looks gorgeous. I saw that. It just came on the market.” Three days ago it was pending, but the site, for whatever reason, didn’t grab that MLS data and update it. But as soon as I logged in, I could actually see that the information. So the sites are awesome for doing up front searches looking at history. They’re very good at looking backward at historical data of what has sold, but truthfully, if you want to get up to the minute true information, you need to get an agent who can get you access to the MLS, so that you can get that data directly.

[00:04:18] TU: Yeah. I remember Nate, I’m sure all agents do this differently, back in 2009, when Jess and I moved to northeast Ohio, working with an agent. They have an MLS portal that we could log in and review in, just seeing the differences, as you mentioned, between that and realtor.com, Redfin, where we’d be really excited about a property contingent and it was already, had been sold. Before we go further, we throw on MLS a lot. Can you just break that down a little bit further? What is the MLS? Obviously, that’s going to be an important piece of what we’re talking about here today.

[00:04:46] NH: Yeah. The MLS is, like I said, the Multiple Listing Service. What this is, is basically an agreement between the brokerage is of a particular area or a particular state. The MLS is divided inter into regions, right? So they can be the entire state, they can be just a large city area. It depends on where you’re located. Basically, the brokerages or the Real Estate Association is within that area have gotten together and said, “We agree to share data between our brokerages and the MLS is how we’re going to share that data.” So brokerages will upload information directly into this database that’s managed by an independent organization and that organization puts out that information for everyone to be able to access. Again, what that allows other real estate agents and professionals to do is to look at that information in real-time so that decisions can be made much more quickly.

[00:05:31] TU: Nate, as you mentioned, sites like Zillow, sites Redfin, sites realtor.com, those are pulling from the MLS, correct?

[00:05:38] NH: Correct. They have some agreement in place where they can, again, scrape that data from the MLS and then show it in whatever way they like to.

[00:05:44] TU: Nate, I think all of us can relate to pulling up a listing, and browsing pictures from our couch, but there are important things that people should be looking for when they’re digging through a listing. Talk about what are those things that folks should be looking for?

[00:05:58] NH: Yeah, absolutely. It’s just pulling up a patient profile before rounds, right? There’s a ton of data to sort through, and it can be important to narrow things down. Like you said, it’s really easy to sit there and just look at the pictures upfront and dream about being in that particular house, but there’s actually a lot of great data there. If you understand what’s available to you, you can glean a lot of information from it. I’ll break it down, four main categories. I think this is how we can do this.

The first is the obvious one, right? The pictures and the video, you can use this information for a lot of things. It’s not just looking at the cosmetics, but you can also look for things like, are there obvious problems? For example, is the roof look like from the photos that it has problems or is there damage within the property that you can see in the photos? Sometimes it’s not just what’s being included, but it’s what’s excluded as well. Just like a missing lab value might tell you more than the myriad of in-range results that you get for a particular patient.

Pictures that are missing can be really telling too. If they say they’ve got a four-bedroom, three bathhouse, but there’s only one picture of one updated bathroom, it starts to make you wonder, “Well, what’s going on with those other two?” Is one of them hidden in the basement somewhere and never been updated in the other ones full of wallpaper that totally out of date. The things that are missing can be just as evident from the things that are present.

Look at those pictures, but also look at what’s not in the pictures. Then like I mentioned before, if you’re getting access to the MLS, a lot of times you’ll see brokers or real estate agents posting video walkthroughs. A lot of times the sites like Zillow and Redfin and things like that can’t pull that data or may not have access to those videos. So asking your agent, “Hey, can you give me access or is there a video of a walkthrough?” You can get that directly to the MLS, that’s the first one.

The next thing you want to look at is your stats, right? These are all of your basic information about that house, everything from bedroom and bathroom count like I mentioned. Things like square footage above and below grade and seeing where that information is coming from is really important too, right? Even as I go to list a property, the seller might say, “Yeah, this is four bedrooms, here are the four bedrooms, you can count them. But if the county records indicate that it’s only a three-bedroom house, or it’s been certified as a three-bedroom house through whatever past history, that fourth bedroom might either not be in the records for a very good reason, or it might actually not count as a bedroom. So again, think about that data and where it’s coming from.

The other things you’ll see is things the year that the house was built, and that can help you look at things like, okay, well if it was built before 1978 for example, there might be lead-based paint in the house. So I need to start thinking about that. If it was still before 1950s, there might be knob-and-tube wiring. So the year that it was built can tell you a lot as well. The last thing you want to look for there is things like the heating and cooling types. Some people depending on your area, this can be much more important than in certain locations, but understanding what type of heating is in that property. Does it have an air conditioner? Does it have a boiler? Does it have whatever? All that can be listed right there for you. It can provide you a lot of information.

The next data point to look for is the government data. So these are things usually displayed by the county that is listed on these websites and through the MLS, and that’s everything from school district, the property taxes. You can actually look at property lines and the parcel itself. You should be able to determine zoning from this. You can see if it’s zoned residential or mixed-use or commercial. Then again, like I said, past sales or rent prices will be listed there as well. That’s all through usually the county website and available.

Then that fourth piece is really the narrative. This is the, again, the physician’s notes. If it were our patient example, but it’s what’s included with the property, it’s what the seller wanted to tell you about it. It’s how they’re trying to sell it. Things disclosures from the listing description or brokers notes that can be available for the MLS again. So there’s a lot of pieces that you can look for on just what seems like a simple place to check out pictures.

[00:09:39] TU: Nate that was great stuff. You talked about for pictures and the video, the stats, the government data, the narrative. As you were talking, I was envisioning. That has to be a great way to set up a spreadsheet and record this information. My question, though, is with today’s market, analyzing all this information, really doing due diligence like things are moving quickly, though, right?

[00:09:56] NH: Yeah.

[00:09:57] TU: I think that’s one of the challenges in today’s market is making sure we have all the information, obviously, to be comfortable, to feel confident moving forward, but things are moving and getting the information that we need, but also being able to react quickly.

[00:10:09] NH: Making sure that you’re not making a mistake by reacting too quickly, right? So if you’re looking for a particular school district and it’s on the street that you’ve been looking at before, but you skip the government data and you skip the fact that it’s actually across the street, and that’s a different school district that could have huge ramifications on price and everything that goes along with it, taxes especially. So knowing where those pieces of information are upfront, so that you can move quickly is super important.

[00:10:33] TU: Nate, we dig through all of the background information. We found a house or several homes that we like want to look at. How do we go see the property? What’s the strategy here?

[00:10:42] NH: Yeah. So there’s generally two options to see a property, I guess. Three, I’ll talk to all three, but basically, the most common one that people think of, I think more often than not is an open house, right? Where you’re going to have the listing agent present, the doors are open, the house is vacant, and you’ve got the ability to walk through that with everybody else. I think the classic example of this is come by Sunday at 2:00 and there’s 30 cars in the driveway and you’re touring it with everybody else. Usually, those open houses will be again on the weekends and in the listing description or somewhere on the website you’ll be able to see when that open house or when the next open house will be.

If it’s not listed, they either might not have one or it might be not something that the data was able to be scraped on. So make sure that you ask your agent, “Is there going to be an open house?” But that’s only one way to go see the house, right? You have virtual showings as well. Or you could do private showing, where you can set up through the either listing agent or through your own agent to go see the house on your own time, and on your own terms.

Generally speaking, I recommend doing a private showing. It’s a great way to get into the house early so that you can really take things on quickly and you can take your time, right? You’re not shuffling around other people. You’re not trying to debate who else might be putting in an offer. You’re really spending the time that you need to evaluate. Is this the property for me? Again, in most cases, your agent can get that set up for a time that’s convenient for you. So rather than forcing it into Sunday at 2:00, you could do it at 8:00 at night or 7:00 at night after you’ve done the long working day. So lots of options with that.

[00:12:04] TU: Yeah. There’s nothing some pressure, right Nate? When you’re walking around open house and ten, 20 other people are looking at the house, you start to feel like, I got to act quickly –

[00:12:11] NH: Exactly, exactly.

[00:12:12] TU: Nate, I remember going to open houses in the past and one of the first things that they would have me do is sign in and then they would ask if I have an agent. Honestly, I never really thought much about that. So tell us more about what’s going on there. What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to say in that situation?

[00:12:29] NH: Yeah. Your best bet is just to be honest, right? This not a test or them trying to figure out if you’re supposed to be there. If it’s an open house, you are absolutely supposed to be there, right? Even if you’re not a qualified buyer, the whole point of an open house is to come look, so that’s okay. The best thing you can do is to be honest on that and what the agent is trying to do there. It’s one of the worst kept secrets of the real estate industry, is that open houses are not actually to sell a house. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but truthfully, in age of the Internet, they get plenty of marketability by just putting it on the MLS and letting Zillow and everybody else see it, right?

What the open house is designed to do is to drum up business for that real estate agent. So what they’re doing is they’re saying, “If you, Tim, are come into my open house and you’re ready to buy and you’re looking at houses in this area, but you don’t have an agent to work with, well, then you’re the perfect client for me,” right? “I can help you. I know clearly this area. I’m already working here and I’ve got a listing. I’d love to help you out with that.” So what we’re doing as agents when we’re holding it open house is trying to show the property, certainly, but more often than not, that agent is there to drum up their own business and try to create opportunities for themselves.

[00:13:34] TU: Nate, I go to the open house, I love the house. How do I make an offer? Well, using that listing agent save me money? Will that help in the negotiations?

[00:13:42] NH: Yeah. A lot of people assume this right, where, “I’ll use the listing agent, because then I’ll save money. I won’t have my own agent.” So there it is, but let me explain a little bit about how an agent is paid. I think that will dispel that myth. I’ll say this, there are times where that can be the case where it can save you something on commission, but the reality is not very often. So the way that the typical commission is paid is that the seller sits down with the listing agent and they agree on a price. They basically say, “Okay, I’m going to list your house for you. Here’s all the things that I’m going to do in terms of marketing, in terms of exposure, in terms of open houses. For doing all of that, when the house sells, I need you to pay me 6%.”

That might be high. That might be low. It totally depends on your area and the property that you’re talking about and the price point and all that. Let’s just assume it’s 6%. Well, that 6% then get split between the selling agent and the buying agent. So the person that actually brings a buyer to the property. So typically it’s a 50/50 split, 3% going to the listing agent, 3% going to the buyer. So if I come as a buyer with no agent whatsoever now all of a sudden that 6% doesn’t have to be split. What happens most often is that agent that’s listing the property simply keeps the 6%. It’s already been agreed upon, it’s already been signed by the seller. They don’t have to reduce that price at all.

You could, in theory negotiate with them to say, “Hey, if I don’t use an agent, can we get this down to 5%? Or can you take 1% off your commission or something like that?” That may work, but what you’re missing is that you don’t have an agent representing your best interest. The goal of that listing agent is to sell that property for as much as possible, because they’re representing their sellers interests. There are a lot of great real estate agents out there that will do their absolute best to split that difference between representing the buyer and the seller, but the reality is that they negotiated and worked at that seller first, and they have an obligation to treat them as best they can to get them the best price.

It can look like a savings, because you’re taking 1% off the commission or whatever, but if you don’t have an agent advocating for you, looking for the things that that agent isn’t there to help you look for, you might miss out on something even greater than that 1%, and it’s totally not even worth it.

[00:15:47] TU: Nate, does this vary from state-to-state? I’m not sure of the rules here of whether or not I don’t know what the term is dual representation, but of where someone’s acting is both the buying and the selling. I remember signing disclosures confirming that that wasn’t happening, talk to us more about what is or is not allowed here, and whether or not that very state-to-state.

[00:16:03] NH: Yeah. There’s a couple pieces here that we can break down. The first is whether or not that agent is actually representing you. So what you’re referring to is called dual agency, where that agent is representing both the buyer and the seller in a transaction. That idea of dual agency is allowed in some states, it’s not allowed in others. Some brokerages actually have a restriction on that. The broker was saying, “Look, we will never be a dual agent and here’s why.” But it’s permissible in a lot of areas. The other option or the other more likely scenario is that you’re going to be unrepresented. So you are coming in as a customer, not a client. So the agent that is selling the property represents the seller. They are not representing you in the transaction at all. They are simply helping you through it. So you’re a customer, not a client.

Again, I think understanding what that relationship is, if you are going to enter into an agreement like that and knowing what that means for you in terms of, “Are you actually my agent or are you simply an agent of the seller and helping me through the transaction?”

[00:16:57] TU: Nate, it sounds like having an agent’s a win-win better representation on your end as a buyer and doesn’t cost you anything, am I reading that, right?

[00:17:04] NH: Yeah. I mean, as long as you have the right agent on your team, someone that knows the market, what to look for, knows how to represent you in negotiations. Navigating the contracts like that is somebody that is a really important asset to you. As agents, we walk through these property deals all the time. You might be a first time homebuyer and have never done this before. So having somebody on your team that knows how to navigate all those pieces, they can be dramatically important. I mean, I’ve seen situations where it saves the buyer thousands of dollars, because a real estate agent catches something or knows how to ask for something really important.

I just had a situation come up recently with a buyer. It came back that there was a leak, it was a pretty simple leak, but it was at the water main of the house where it came in from the city. So the inspector said, “Yeah, this needs to be fixed. It’s leaking right now. It’s probably going to be a couple hundred bucks to fix it.” At first the buyer said, “Well, okay, that’s fine. I’ll just handle it myself when I buy the property.” But I said, “Well, hold on. This is a leak that is active, meaning that it has the potential to get worse. Meaning it could damage the property.” So this is something that the seller should address right away. “I’ll get this taken care of for you.” A quick phone call to the agent, and they agreed like that to say, “Oh yeah, we’ll handle that completely.”

Only a couple hundred bucks, but something that they didn’t have to deal with after they moved in, something that protected the property from getting worse and something that, again, going unrepresented, the buyer wouldn’t have bothered messing with. So having that right agent, somebody that can really advocate for you can really make the difference. Again, not to start plugging a service, but that’s exactly why we created the concierge service, the home buying concierge, because it’s designed to get you connected with really great agents that can have your best interests in mind.

[00:18:35] TU: I would encourage folks to check out episode 160 – Nate, you did an episode navigating the home buying process through the concierge service with Shelby Bannett, and Bryce Plott. I think that service really comes alive throughout that episode and the value that it has. Walk us through briefly, what is that concierge service? What value does it provide? What can folks expect and where can they go to learn more?

[00:18:55] NH: Yeah, so this all came about, because when I bought my first property, I had no idea how to find a good real estate agent, right? I just asked a friend, I Googled around and we ended up with an okay agent. It was fine. It all worked out great, but it just felt like there should be a better process to this. Again, especially if you’re somebody that’s moving out of state or to a new area, you might not know anybody there. So how do you wade through the myriad of real estate agents in finding somebody that’s actually going to be on your team? So what we created was the real estate concierge service, the whole idea being that you can sit down with me through a 30-minute prep call to really walk through your goals, your budget, what your must haves are, and starting to figure out what property you’re looking for.

Then once I’ve got that information, we’ll go out and find a real estate agent, that’s really a good fit for you, somebody that’s going to be that has the experience you need, somebody that knows the property types that you’re looking for, somebody that again is just going to be the right fit on your team, and it takes all that guesswork out of it. So again, the process is simple. You go online, you can go to yfprealestate.com, or you can go to your financialpharmacist.com/buyahome and you can tap into the book a call with Nate, and we’ll sit down and talk about what your needs are. I’ll get you connected with an agent and then you can get off and running. You can know that you’ve got somebody on your team that’s going to help you through that process.

The thing I really have been advocating for recently, too, is that it’s not just us handing off to an agent, right? I stay on your team through that whole process. I just had two emails this morning from a client who had a question. They didn’t feel like they were getting the full answer from their real estate agent. They said, “Can you just double check this for me, Nate? I want to have somebody else that knows what’s going on actually in answering this.” I confirm, “Yes, what the real estate agent is saying is accurate. Totally, you can believe them.” It gives that peace of mind behind the buying process with somebody that knows what they’re doing.

[00:20:38] TU: Yeah. I think especially for first time home buyers, right? It’s a big decision. We’re in this wild market that is, things are moving so quickly and I think just to have someone throughout process beginning and have a second opinion, examples you just gave would highly encourage folks to check that out. You’ve done an awesome job building this out.

[00:20:53] NH: Thanks.

[00:20:54] TU: Agents across the country in different areas, few different ways you can get there. Nate mentioned go to yourfinancialpharmacies.com, click on buy a home. We’ll link to that in the show notes. You can get a yfprealestate.com, so it’s not just for primary residence, for those that are looking at investing in real estate and finding an investor friendly agent also really, really important. Or you can go to realestaterph.com and that will all point you to the same place, which is a conversation with Nate. We’ll link to all of those in the show notes.

Nate, before we wrap up. Got to pick your brain every time that we talk about home buying in the last, seems since the pandemic. Each month it brings a different angle, different know, right? Here we are. Believe it or not, I seen interest rate on 30 year fixed mortgages starting to creep up closer, and closer, and closer to 5%. That is hard to believe when we look back in the middle of the pandemic, we were seeing 30 year fixed rates below 3% for a period of time. I remember back to October 2018 when we bought our home that was in the four or six ranges fixed rates on a 30 year mortgage and I thought maybe we’re not going to see that high again and here we are.

We’ve got now continued supply and demand issues. We’ve got more buyers and there are properties that are out there, and now we’ve got rates that are creeping up, so I think this affordability of home for first time homebuyers is becoming more and more challenging. Talk to us about what you’re seeing and what are some of the challenges the folks are facing.

[00:22:16] NH: Yeah. I think there’s a lot that goes into this, right? I think the biggest thing like you said, is the affordability, because if you’re all of a sudden jumping up a percentage point in rate, that could be a couple of hundred bucks. It could be even more depending on your market. So it can really start to affect, okay, well, what house can I afford? If people are going to be offering over asking price and competing with offers 20, 30, $40,000 over asking, that is going to start to go away, I think, as these interest rates climb even further. It doesn’t mean that the houses are unaffordable, but I think you’re going to start to see a shift back down.

I do want you to keep in mind too, in perspective, the interest rates we have today even if it is five, even 6% over the historical average, that’s still really, really low. It’s still below what inflation was in the last six months right? So historically, that’s not bad. It’s just when you compare that to the last two years, it feels like we’re in this state of, “Oh, my gosh, we’re really on these rising rates and it’s never going to end.” So put that in a little bit of historical perspective for yourself before getting too nervous. But I do think we’re going to start to see a shift in the market as a result of these changes.

[00:23:15] TU: Nate, one last question I have for you. If I’m someone listening and ready, I’m looking now versus, hey I’m thinking about this over the next three to six to 12 months. When is the right time to potentially connect with you and ultimately get connected with an agent?

[00:23:26] NH: Yeah. I think there’s never a bad time to connect with me. I think the best time is probably when you’re around six months out or sooner. I mean, it can be, you’re ready right now when you’re ready to look and we just are having look, we need a good agent or it can be again, we’re six months away, and I want to start planning ahead. If you’re before that, it’s probably a bit early to connect with an agent, but it’s a great time to start thinking about your overall finances, your budget, all the other things that we’ve talked about in the past about getting ready to buy a home. So once you get to that point where you’re in the ready state, that’s a great time to connect with me. Even if you’re not actively looking, we can start to talk through goals, objectives, things that are going to help you make that process that much easier.

[00:24:03] TU: Great stuff, Nate, as always. Really appreciate your insights to the YFP community and taking the time to come on the show. Thank you so much.

[00:24:09] NH: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Tim.

[OUTRO]

[00:24:11] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information to the podcasts and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates publish. Such information may contain forward looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacists.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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