The Ultimate Guide to Pay Back Pharmacy School Loans

The Current Reality

*Update – For student loan considerations during COVID-19, check out this post. “I wasn’t prepared to pay back pharmacy school loans, I didn’t understand all of my options, or I don’t know how to balance student loans with other financial goals.” That’s what I hear from many pharmacists and exactly how I felt when I graduated from pharmacy school. I once bought into the illusion that my “awesome pharmacist salary” would enable me to pay back pharmacy school loans very quickly and put me in the fast lane to building wealth. Unfortunately, it didn’t exactly work out like that and I made a couple of critical mistakes that cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars! Because I didn’t know all of the payoff strategies available, I failed to identify the best option and ended up paying way more than I should have. A pharmacist paying off student loans in 2018 is a lot different than one who graduated a decade ago. Since 2009, the median pharmacy debt reported has increased about $60,000 with those attending private institutions reporting a median amount borrowed of $200,000. However, these numbers may even be underestimating the issue. Since these amounts are self-reported, they may not include undergraduate debt or capitalized interest. In addition, the rising debt loads are only part of the problem. Salaries are not keeping pace with rising debt levels and since 2012 there has been a trend with graduates facing an increasing debt to income ratio year after year. Furthermore, many companies are cutting pharmacist hours forcing many to work full-time with less pay. Pay Back Pharmacy School Loans Therefore, now more than ever you as a pharmacist have to have a solid game plan to pay back pharmacy school loans. Pharmacy schools are not currently required to teach personal finance. Some offer electives and some provide education for their graduating class, but in general, the onus is on you to become informed. Sure, everyone is required to do the mandatory federal loan “exit” counseling but that’s really insufficient and doesn’t typically provide clarity in choosing the best payoff strategy. With the multitude of student loan types, repayment plans, forgiveness programs, and refinancing and consolidation, it can be overwhelming trying to come with a plan. This post is a comprehensive guide to help you take down your loans with clarity and confidence and choose the best strategy that saves you the most money and aligns with your goals. Even if you have been paying on your loans for years, this will help confirm you’re on the right path. We will go through 5 key steps in detail but if you want the short version, you can download the quick start guide.

Step 1: Inventory Your Loans

Before jumping into the payoff strategies it’s important to know exactly how much you owe and who you owe. Unless you used a private lender or already refinanced your loans to a private lender after pharmacy school, you likely have federal loans through the Department of Education. You can access all your federal loan information through the National Student Loan Data System (NSLDS). This is the national record of all of your loans and grants during their complete life cycle and contains information on your outstanding balance, interest outstanding, interest rate, and associated servicer. This can be accessed a number of ways but the most user-friendly path is the Federal Student Loan Repayment Estimator. Logging in with your Federal Student Aid (FSA) ID will pull up all of your loan information and quickly show you your total federal loan balance and weighted interest rate. Check out the video below for a step-by-step approach to access the information.

If you have already started making payments on your federal loans, it’s a good idea to match up the information with your current servicer(s) and the NSLDS. The specific type of federal loans and the respective interest rate is really important to know as it has implications for how interest is accruing, eligibility for forgiveness programs, and deciding which loans to consolidate or refinance. The figure below summarizes the major types of federal student loans and the key points about them.
take down your loans
To confirm the balance on any private loans, go to www.annualcreditreport.com. Through this site, you are able to access a free report once per year from the three reporting agencies: Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. Also, when doing an inventory of all your loans, don’t forget to include any balances owed to family members or friends.

Step 2: Determine Your Options

As I mentioned, one of the biggest mistakes I made with my student loans was not analyzing all of the options available. I was pretty much focused on figuring out how to pay them off as fast as possible without even considering the alternatives. Let’s review these strategies in detail.

Three Strategies to Pay Back Pharmacy School Loans

People often get student loan repayment options and payoff strategies confused. A repayment plan dictates your minimum payments over a designated term whereas a payoff strategy is your game plan for the most effective way to tackle your loans to save the most money which can be executed using a number of repayment plans. While there are many plans with federal and private lenders, tuition reimbursement, forgiveness, and non-forgiveness will be the major ways how to pay off pharmacy school loans. pharmacist paying off student loans
Tuition Reimbursement Programs
While not abundantly available, tuition repayment programs essentially provide “free” money typically from your employer or institution in exchange for working a certain period of time. Pretty awesome right? Others will require you to pay an amount toward your loans and they will match or reimburse you. The ones that tend to provide the most generous reimbursement are those offered by the federal government through the military, Veteran Health Administration, and the Department of Health. However, there are many state programs that offer assistance as well. Because the programs vary in amounts and how payments are structured, it’s important to know all the details so you determine how much to pay out of pocket in order to maximize the total benefit offered to you. Also, since many of these programs will not cover your entire student loan bill, you may have to combine one of the other payoff strategies to completely take down your loans. The following are programs currently available: Federal Veterans Health Administration – Education Debt Reduction Program Eligibility Pharmacists at facilities that have available funding and critical staffing needs. Benefit Up to $120,000 over a 5 year period Army Pharmacist Health Professions Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists who commit to a period of service when funding is available Benefit Up to $120,000 ($40,000 per year over 3 years) Navy Health Professions Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Must be qualified for, or hold an appointment as a commissioned officer in one of the health professions and sign a written agreement to serve on active duty for a prescribed time period Benefit Offers have many variables Indian Health Service Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Two-year service commitment to practice in health facilities serving American Indian and Alaska Native communities. Opportunities are based on Indian health program facilities with the greatest staffing needs Benefit $40,000 but can extend contract annually until student loans are paid off. National Institute of Mental Health (NIH) Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Two year commitment of qualified research funded by a domestic nonprofit organization. Benefit $35,000 per year with renewal potential National Institute of Health (NIH) Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Two year commitment to conduct biomedical or behavioral research funded by a nonprofit or government institution. Benefit Up to $50,000 per year NHSC Substance Use Disorder Workforce Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Three commitment to provide substance use disorder treatment services at NHSC-approved sites. Benefit $37,500 for part-time and $75,000 for full-time State Specific Alaska – SHARP Program Eligibility Pharmacists working in underserved communities. In order to qualify, pharmacists must work full-time or half-time and commit to serving for at least three years. After that, eligible candidates may qualify for an additional three years of loan repayment assistance. Benefit Up to $35,000 per year. In some cases, if the position is hard to fill, pharmacists may be eligible for up to $47,000 per year. Arkansas – Faculty Loan Repayment Program Eligibility This program is for Health Professions Faculty from disadvantaged backgrounds who serve on the faculty of an accredited health professions college or university for 2 years. Benefit Up to $40,000 towards repayment. The government pays up to $40,000 of the participant’s student loans and provides funds to offset the tax burden. Participants should also receive matching funds from their employing educational institution. Arizona – State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists serving at an eligible nonprofit or designated HPSA. Funding varies depending on a variety of factors, such as HPSA score, years of service, and more. Benefit Up to $50,000 in loan repayment assistance for a two-year contract and can receive additional funding by committing to additional years of service. California – State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists who commit to working in a designated Health Professional Shortage Area (HPSA). It’s important to note that pharmacists working in a retail setting are not eligible for the program. In order to qualify, pharmacists must work in an approved site, such as an outpatient or ambulatory setting. Benefit Up to $50,000 for a two-year service agreement — $25,000 from the program and a $25,000 match from the provider site. Full-time pharmacists may be eligible for one-year extensions for a total of four years, which could result in an additional $60,000 maximum in loan repayment assistance. Half-time applicants are also eligible for awards. Colorado – Health Service Corps Program Eligibility Full-time clinical pharmacists working in a designated shortage area. Pharmacists must commit to three years of service and work either part-time or full-time. Benefit Up to $50,000 for full-time while part-time pharmacists are eligible for up to $25,000. Idaho – State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Full-time pharmacists working in designated HPSAs and nonprofits. This is a matching program, so for every dollar provided by the program, the work site must also match the contribution. Benefit From $20,00 to $50,000 for serving a two-year commitment. It is possible to extend the contract for an additional two years as well. Iowa – PRIMECARRE Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Two years full-time service at a public or nonprofit private entity that serves a federally designated HPSA or four years or part-time work Benefit Up to $50,000 Kentucky – State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Qualified candidates that work at a designated HPSA and work full-time. This is a matching program, but with a twist. For every federal dollar spent, an employer, family member, friend, or state foundation can match the contribution. Benefit Up to $80,000 and must serve a two-year commitment. Massachusetts – Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Full time pharmacists working in a public or non-profit position, located in a high need area, participate in MassHealth, and serve all patients regardless of ability to pay or source of payment. The program is a two year full-time requirement. Benefit Up to $50,000 over two years. Minnesota – Rural Pharmacist Loan Forgiveness Program Eligibility Eligible candidates are those that work in a designated rural area. Candidates must work at least 30 hours per week, for 45 weeks or more per year and commit to three years of service. Benefit Up to $26,000 per year, for a maximum of four years, totaling $96,000. Montana – State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Must work at a National Health Service Corp (NHSC) approved site. Benefit Up to $30,000 total over a two year period. Nebraska NHSC State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists that work in designated HPSAs. In order to qualify, candidates must commit to at least two years of service. Benefit Between $25,000 to $50,000 per year. Nebraska Loan Repayment Program for Rural Health Professionals Eligibility Pharmacists that serve in rural communities in a designated shortage area. This is a matching program and a local entity must match the dollars you receive. There are opportunities for full-time workers and half-time workers, though benefits are reduced if working half-time. Benefit Up to $30,000 per year and must commit to three years of service. New Mexico – Health Professional Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Health professionals that serve in a designated shortage area. In order to qualify, candidates must work full-time for two years at an eligible site. Pharmacists may be eligible for the program, but funding priority is given to other healthcare professionals. Benefit The maximum award eligible candidates can receive is $25,000 each year, however, the award amount depends on a number of factors, including your student loan debt balance and the program’s available funding. North Dakota – Loan Repayment Program Eligibility In conjunction with the Department of Health, offers loan repayment assistance to registered pharmacists who work in designated shortage areas. This is a matching program where work sites must match the dollars provided. In order to qualify, candidates must commit to two years of service. Benefit up to $50,000 a year. Oregon – Partnership State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists who work in designated shortage areas. The program requires a two-year commitment, with the possibility of two additional one-year extensions. Benefit Full time providers may receive up to a total of 50% of their qualifying educational debt, up at a maximum of $35,000 per obligation year, for an initial two year obligation. Part time providers may receive up to a total of 50% of their qualifying educational debt, up to a maximum of $17,500 per obligation year, for an initial four year obligation. The award maximum is $100,000. The pharmacist’s practice site needs to provide 1:1 matching award funds in addition to a 10% administrative fee. Rhode Island – Health Professional Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists who work at a qualified site in a designated shortage area. There are award options for full-time and half-time employment. Candidates must commit to two years of service, or four years of service if they are working part-time. Benefit No specific amount or maximum listed. Virginia – State Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists who serve in a designated HPSA at a qualified site in Virginia. The program requires a dollar match from the community work site. In order to qualify, eligible candidates must commit to two years of service. Benefit Maximum award of $140,000 for a four-year commitment. Texas – Rural Communities Healthcare Investment Program Eligibility Pharmacists licensed within the past 24 months or be a licensed health professional practicing in a county with more than 500,000 people and move to practice in a qualifying community in the field. Must also provide services to clients that receive at least one form of indigent care in a qualifying community and practice there for at least 12 months. Benefit Up to $10,000 in student loan reimbursement or stipend. Washington – Health Professional Loan Repayment Program Eligibility Pharmacists who work at an eligible site. This program does require pharmacists to work at a designated HPSA. Minimum three-year service obligation. Benefit Up to $75,000 in exchange for three years of service. West Virginia – Health Sciences Service Program Eligibility Students in their final year of pharmacy school. Must commit to two years of full-time or four years of half-time practice at an eligible practice site located in West Virginia. Benefit One-time $15,000 award.
Forgiveness
If tuition reimbursement is not available, the first strategy to assess is forgiveness. You might be thinking this strategy isn’t for if you don’t work for the government or a non-profit, but what most borrowers don’t know is that you have the opportunity to have your loans forgiven regardless of who your employer is. Pique your interest? First, let me explain the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) option and then forgiveness outside of PSLF.
Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)
This is typically the loan forgiveness strategy that gets all the press, usually for all the wrong reasons, which we’ll outline in the coming paragraphs. Let’s first take a trip down memory lane to explain how this program came to be *flashback wavy transition* The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program was created under the George W. Bush administration via the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007 (CCRAA). Since the program’s inception, its faced political opposition from both administrations since Bush. President Obama proposed a cap of $57,500 for all new borrowers in his 2015 budget proposal to Congress. In 2016, the PSLF program was threatened this time by the Republican party with a Congressional budget resolution that saw PSLF on the chopping block for the first time for all new borrowers. PLSF has remained an endangered species since, as both President Trump’s budget and the Republican-backed PROSPER Act proposes the elimination of the program for borrowers after July 1, 2019. Despite its rocky past and uncertain future, the PSLF program is one of the best payoff strategies available for pharmacists paying off student loans. Without question, it is often the most beneficial to the borrower in terms of the monthly payment (it’s the lowest) or the total amount paid over the course of the program (it’s the lowest). These two factors are widely why the program is so attractive despite its poor and frustrating administration. Let’s look at an example of how impressive the math is for a pharmacist who plans on pursuing PSLF. We will make the following assumptions: single, lives within the contiguous U.S., has a student loan balance of $200,000 in Direct Unsubsidized loans with an average interest rate of 7%, and an adjusted gross income of $120,000, and 5% income growth per year (standard per repayment calculator). Compared to the 10-year Standard Repayment plan, pursuing forgiveness through REPAYE, PAYE, or IBR-New would result in only $130,657 paid, a difference of almost $150,000! Plus, the total amount paid could be even lower if the pharmacist were to maximize traditional 401(k) contributions and other options to lower adjusted gross income. Oh and that $209,343 loan balance remaining after 10 years? Forgedda bout it! It’s eliminated and no taxes to pay on that money. If you think you can stomach this gauntlet to take down your loans, there are a number of requirements to meet. Typically the cadence of the programs goes like this: you need to work for the right type of employer (typically a 501(c)(3) non-profit), with the right kind of loans, in the right repayment plan (one of the four income drive plans to be outlined soon), you need to make the right amount of payments (120 on-time payment which equates to 10 years, but does not have to be consecutive), you need to prove it (via the employment certification form) and then apply and receive tax-free forgiveness. *catch breath* Let’s break the requirements down into a little more detail. public service loan forgiveness Qualified Employment Verifying that your employer is a government organization or a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization is the first key to the whole process. You don’t want to make payments for 10 years only to find out the hospital you work for is actually for-profit. This is really important. Even though FedLoan Servicing determines your initial eligibility, the Department of Education has overturned some of these decisions after 10 years which has resulted in lawsuits by borrowers who thought they were on track to receive forgiveness. Shady right? These cases involved people who worked for a non-profit organization that was not tax exempt but was considered public service. This is really the grey area for what exactly qualifies as “public service” and you could be rolling the dice if that’s your situation. Besides having the right employer, you have to be working full-time based on how your employer defines that or 30 hours/week, whichever is greater. If you are working part-time for more than one qualifying employer, you can still meet the full-time requirement if you are working at least 30 hours per week. Qualified Loans Only federal Direct Loans are eligible for PSLF and this would be you if you’re a new borrower after July 1, 2010. If you borrowed before that time, you may have FFEL Loans. These, including Perkins loans, are technically ineligible but you can consolidate them through the federal Direct Consolidation Loan. This will unlock the eligible income-driven repayment plans and all payments moving forward would qualify. Take caution with this step, however! If you’ve been making standard 10 year or income-driven payments on any Direct Loan while working for a qualifying employer and you decide to consolidate, you’re essentially hitting the reset button on your PSLF timeline and starting your 10-year period anew. Therefore, you may have to designate specific loans to be consolidated vs. all of them. After you verify your loans are eligible or finalize the consolidation process, you want to complete the employment certification form that you and your employer will complete. Once you submit and your application is accepted, all of your loans will be combined and transferred to FedLoan Servicing, the exclusive servicer for PSLF. Some people wait to do this step after they have been in repayment for several years and technically you can do that. However, since only FedLoan Servicing will “count” your qualified payments, from an administrative and organizational perspective it makes sense to do this as soon as you can. Qualifying Monthly Payments You have to make 120 qualified payments prior to receiving forgiveness and you can’t make the process go any faster than 10 years. One key point though is that these payments do not have to be consecutive. So if you have to switch jobs from one qualifying employer to another and there is gap in employment, you can pick back up where you left off when you start working again. Qualifying payments have to be for the full amount on your bill and cannot be made more than 15 days past the due date. In addition, only payments under a qualifying repayment plan count. These include income-based repayment (IBR), income-contingent repayment (ICR), Paye-as-you-earn (PAYE), Revised-pay-as-you-earn (REPAYE), and payments under the 10 year Standard Repayment Plan. Even though the 10 year Standard Repayment plan is an option, it really does not make sense to use this option since your goal with PSLF is to pay the least amount of money over 10 years. So get moving and switch that ASAP if that is you! The plans that will result in the lowest monthly payments are REPAYE, PAYE, and IBR-New (which functions essentially the same as PAYE) since they are calculated as 10% of your discretionary income. Discretionary income is specifically your adjusted gross income minus 150% of the poverty guidelines for these plans. The repayment estimator will calculate this for you but if you want a detailed look at how to calculate discretionary income check out this post. At the time of applying for an income-driven repayment plan, you will need to document your current income. Usually, this is based on the previous year’s tax return, but if your income has changed “significantly”, you may have to provide your most up to date paystub that documents your adjusted gross income and other sources of income you are receiving (dated within past 90 days). This would obviously be beneficial if you experienced a pay cut since your last filing. But what about an increase in pay? Previously the income driven repayment form asked the question “has your income significantly increased or decreased since you filed your last federal income tax return?”. However, this has actually changed and now only asks if your pay has significantly decreased since last filing. income driven repayment plan This is a big deal especially if you are a resident or fellow transitioning from student life or from resident to first-year practitioner. Previously, you would have had to disclose if your income increased which would be true going from having zero to minimal earnings as a student to 1/3 of a typical pharmacist salary or from resident to new practitioner. However, with this change, you are going to pay substantially less during your transition years since your income is going to be based on the previous year’s earnings. Of course, you want to be truthful and accurate when filling out the form but if you are not required to disclose increases in your income then you shouldn’t. Why not take full advantage of the system in place? Incorporating spousal income into this calculation will depend on the income-driven plan and how you file your taxes. For REPAYE, spousal income will count toward AGI regardless of how you file. If you file separate income tax returns, then only your income will be counted under PAYE (and IBR-New). Initially, to qualify for PAYE you cannot have any outstanding loan balance on a Direct or FFEL Program loan when you received a Direct Loan or FFEL Program loan on or after October, 1, 2007, and you must have received a disbursement of Direct Loan on or after 10/1/11. Confusing right? If you can need more clarity on this check out this article. Besides that, for PAYE (and IBR-New), your calculated payment based on your income has to be less than what you would pay for the 10 year Standard Plan. During the 10 years you are making payments you have recertify your income annually. If your income happens to increase either because of your own efforts or spouse to the point where payments would match or exceed the 10 year Standard Plan, it is possible that you would no longer technically qualify for these plans and could be told or persuaded to change to REPAYE. The problem with this is that under REPAYE, you can actually pay MORE than the standard 10 year payment. Again, you want to pay the least amount of money as possible over 10 years so if you ever get in that situation, insist to FedLoan Servicing to remain in PAYE or IBR-New and cap your payments at whatever the 10 year standard payments would be. In other words no matter how much money you earn, you cannot be disqualified from the program or be forced into REPAYE. best student loan repayment program The best practice to confirm your qualifying payments is to submit the employment certification annually, so there are no surprises at the end of the 10-year repayment period. FedLoan will respond to your annual submissions via letter detailing the number of qualifying payments you’ve made thus far. Make sure you call them out if there are any inaccuracies. Unfortunately, this has been reported often so you want to ensure you get credit for ALL your qualifying payments. Once you have made all of your qualifying payments, you complete the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Application for Forgiveness form, cross your fingers/hold your breath as it is reviewed and receive tax-free forgiveness. Other PSLF Considerations I’ve outlined the history and the steps to get into the PSLF program and the benefits of the program, so what gives? How come borrowers aren’t flocking to and lining up to get their loans forgiven. Unfortunately, there’s been a lot of uneasiness about the program that’s completely justified. In March 2018, the Department of Education announced a new program, the Temporary Expanded Public Service Loan Forgiveness, to aid those borrowers who thought they were on the path to forgiveness but were ultimately denied when they applied after their 10 years of repayment. The reconsideration fund allocated by Congress and totaling $350M should provide relief for those borrowers who thought they took the necessary steps to achieve, but fell short for one reason or another. That demographic of people is quite large as Forbes reported that only 96 borrowers have had their loans forgiven as of June 30, 2018, equating to 1% of total applicants seeking loan forgiveness. Yikes. Aside for the mishaps of the past with this program, borrowers also have to look to the future with a measure of concern too. Usually, when we talk risk related to financial matters, it involves the risk you take with your investments, whether it be market risk or interest rate risk. However, borrowers who enroll and put their proverbial eggs in the PSLF basket take on legislative risk, which is the risk that a change in the laws could lead to a loss or adverse effects in the jurisdiction affected (i.e. ‘Merica). This program is at the whim of the President and Congress, which may not allow you to sleep easy at night. However, it is likely that any change in the program will merely affect future borrowers and not those already enrolled in the PSLF program. This is based on the fact that Congress has allocated that sizeable sum of money for those “oops” situations and the fact that the language suggesting that student loan forgiveness should go by the way of the dinosaur seems to suggest future borrowers. Lastly, many borrowers who seek this strategy often see their loans grow over their PSLF timeline although they are making qualifying payments. For that hypothetical borrower who is halfway through their PSLF timeline but has seen the balance balloon because of reduced income driven payments, would the government actually issue a legislative “sike…just kidding” for the loan forgiveness program and not grandfather that borrower in? It’s not out of the realm of possibility, but the political fallout that would ensue from many of those in public service would be a steep price to pay.
Non-PSLF Forgiveness
Many borrowers are under the impression that they have to work for a government or a non-profit in order to be granted student loan amnesty. Not so fast! Relief is out there, albeit with not as attractive terms, but forgiveness can still happen. The cadence for this program is similar to PSLF with a few differences: it doesn’t matter who you work for, you still need to have the right kind of loans, be in the right repayment plan (one of the four income drive plans to be outlined soon), make the right amount of payments (typically over 20 or 25 years depending on the type of loan), and then you can apply to receive taxable forgiveness. *catch breath x2* That doesn’t sound so different than the PSLF program aside from the term (20 or 25 years versus 10 years), but the taxable forgiveness versus the tax-free forgiveness is actually a big deal. Let me explain why. In the PSLF program if you pay for 10 years and have a balance of $100,000 when you apply for forgiveness, hakuna matata! It means no worries for that balance is forgiven! In the non-PSLF program, if you have a $100,000 balance forgiven at the end of 25 years, that $100,000 is viewed as taxable income. That means that if you’re in a 25% tax bracket, you’ll owe an additional $25,000 in taxes in the year following when you received forgiveness. Often referred to as a “tax bomb”, it’s something that non-PSLF forgiveness borrowers need to account for, typically by saving or investing concurrently to paying off your loans. Although the length of repayment and tax bomb can make this strategy unattractive to some, there are some situations where it can make a lot of sense. Typically, this strategy is best suited for those who are not employed by a non-profit and have a high debt-to-income ratio such as 2:1 or greater. What does this mean? If your total loan balance is $275,000 and your making $120,000, your debt-income ratio is 2.3:1. Depending on your cost of living, liabilities, and other and financial responsibilities, it could be very difficult to make non-income driven payments through the standard plan or even the others. Let’s look at how this plays out using the DoE Repayment Estimator. To make things easy we will assume the pharmacist is single, all loans are unsubsidized and qualify for PAYE and IBR-New, and the average interest rate is 7%. refinance student loans You can see that if this person were to extend payments out 25 years using the extended fixed plan, there would be a $1,944 payment and a total amount paid of $583,093. However, considering non-PSLF forgiveness using PAYE or IBR-New, payments would start $848 and increase to $2,289 (using a 5% increase in income/year per calculator assumption) and the total paid would only be $350,821. However, there would be $309,179 forgiven that is treated as taxable income. If we continue with the assumption of a 25% tax bracket, there would a tax bill of around $77,000. So even with the tax bomb, there are definitely some advantages here: 1. The total amount paid over 25 years will be much less even with considering the additional tax bill (by over $100,000). 2. For many of the years during repayment, the monthly payments will be significantly lower which allows more disposable income for retirement contributions and other financial goals. 3. The tax bill of $77,000 is in future value which is much less than it is today Therefore, this pharmacist should at least consider non-PSLF forgiveness as a viable strategy. The debate for using this strategy can also get interesting if refinancing is on the table. Depending on how low you can get your rate, you would also want to consider this vs. non-PSLF forgiveness. public service loan forgiveness
Non-forgiveness
Outside of tuition reimbursement and forgiveness programs, what’s left is basically paying off pharmacy student loans all on your own. There’s no set timeline or years you have to wait. You determine the time to pay off. You could pay off the balance today if you have the cash or extend payments as long as possible (generally up to 30 years). You make it happen when it’s best for you. Although your monthly payments will be dictated based on the repayment plan you’re in, you are not bound to this and can always accelerate and pay more if you want to. If you want to see how extra payments or a lump sum payment affect your savings or time to payoff you check out our early payoff calculator. Through this strategy, you can either pay off your loans through the federal loan program using one of the many repayment plans (if you still have federal loans) or refinance student loans to a private lender. paying off pharmacy student loans
Federal Loan Program
If you’re like most pharmacists, you probably took out federal student loans to fund pharmacy school. If your grace period is up for you or you have already started making payments, then you will have one or more of the federal servicers handling your account. These include Nelnet, Great Lakes Education Loan Services Inc, Navient, FedLoan Servicing, MOHELA, HESC/EdFinancial, Cornerstone, GraniteState, and OSLA. Since it is possible to have multiple servicers, you may actually be making multiple monthly payments to different servicers each month. If you’re in this situation, you could use a Direct Consolidation Loan to combine all of these loans into one and then make one monthly payment to one lender. This will take the weighted interest rate of all of your loans but not lower the overall interest rate as refinancing could. It really just makes things more convenient. Repayment Plans The default loan repayment plan is the standard 10 year plan where you make the same monthly payments over ten years. It’s the most aggressive of all the repayment plans and you will pay less total interest than other plans. Depending on your loan balance, household income, and other financial priorities, this could be tough to make it work. There are several other repayment plans available with some having eligibility based on the type of loan you have and income. The monthly payments under the income-driven plans are determined based on your previous year’s discretionary income as mentioned above. Advantages of the Federal Loan System Keeping your loans in the federal system will give you some protection and safeguards that are not always available through private lenders. If you die or become permanently disabled, your loans will be discharged without any tax bill on that amount. In addition, if you’re facing a financial hardship, want to go back to school, or have circumstances where it could be tough to make payments, you can request deferment or forbearance which would result in a temporary stop in making payments. The other advantage is the ability to make income-driven payments if needed which generally is not available through private lenders. Lastly, all federal loans have fixed interest rates so your monthly payments will not change unless you are in an income-driven plan or one of the graduated plans.
Refinance Student Loans
Advantages of Refinancing *Disclaimer – Due to recent changes to federally held student loans secondary to the COVID-19 crisis, we are recommending those with Direct Federal Loans eligible for the temporary waiver of payments and interest through December 31, 2022, carefully review their situation prior to refinancing as these benefits are not available through private lenders. The main downside to keeping your loans in the federal system is that you will often pay more in interest given most unsubsidized graduate/professional loans are 6-8%. When you refinance student loans, you essentially reorganize or change the terms of an existing loan(s). These changes include the term over which you pay back, the interest rate, type of interest rate, or a combination of those. Even though interest rates, in general, are rising, you can often get more competitive interest rates through private lenders. Consider a pharmacist with $200,000 in student loans with a 6.8% overall interest rate. Under the standard 10-year plan, the total amount paid would be $276,192. If the interest rate was chopped to 4%, the total paid would be $242,988, a savings of over $33,000. The total savings will vary based on the loan balance, how fast it’s paid off, and the change in interest rate. If you want to see your potential savings, check out our refinance calculator. You may be thinking “Wow, I could be saving a ton if refinance student loans.” But what’s the catch?” Refinancing is not without some drawbacks and it’s very important to know what you’re giving up if you make the move. First, once you refinance, you automatically become ineligible for any of the forgiveness programs. In addition, most private lenders do not offer income-driven plans, so you will lose the flexibility to change your monthly payments and could face a problem if you experience a sudden change in your income. Furthermore, the option to put your loans in deferment or forbearance may not be available either. Also, not all lenders will forgive your loans if you die or become permanently disabled. So if you do decide to go this route you will want to know what their policy is on this. Regardless, most of the time you should have adequate life and disability insurance policies in place if these events were to occur. disability insurance for pharmacists Goals of Refinancing Your main goal of refinancing should be to get a lower interest rate so that you save more money over time. You can pick and choose which loans you want to refinance and if you have some that are already low, you would obviously want to leave those alone. Beyond that, it is important that you find a reputable lender. Unfortunately, there are many scams and frauds out there and you want to have your guard up. Nerd Wallet has a watchlist of businesses that have been reported for criminal activity or who have filed bankruptcy or have tax issues. You can also check out the Better Business Bureau to review ratings and reviews of prospective lenders. Besides choosing a reputable lender to refinance with, you want to be sure there is no origination fee for the service. Remember, companies are eager for your business and are willing to pay you. Also, there should be no prepayment penalty. If you decide you want to pay off your loan faster than the term, there should be no additional fees. Another potential goal of refinancing could be to lower your monthly payment. Since your total balance will not change, if you keep the same term (e.g. 10 years) but lower the interest rate, your payments will go down since a greater percentage of the payment will go toward the principal and less to interest. However, if you’re really trying to accelerate your payoff, your minimum payments could actually be higher than what they are currently. This would occur if you are reducing the term such as 10 to 5 years. Although you may argue that you could have a longer repayment term and make extra payments, some like being forced to make higher payments as a way to prevent overspending and stay disciplined. Besides lowering your interest rate and finding a reputable lender, another goal for you should be to get some cash. Because many companies are eager for your business, they are offering a welcome bonus for being a new customer. Now, of course, they will be making money as you pay off your loans in the form of interest but why not take advantage of this perk. Here’s the best part as well. There is really no limit to how many times you refinance. You can refinance your loans multiple times and get cash bonuses from more than one company. My wife and I actually made $2,500 in a year doing this and were able to get a lower rate each time. If you do this very frequently, you may see a reduction in your credit score since every time a full application is submitted, there is a hard pull. YFP has partnered with multiple student loan refinance companies in order to get you a nice bonus of up to $850 and sometimes more if there is a special promotion running. Yes, we get a referral fee when you refinance through our link, but we have shifted the majority of the payout to you.

Current Student Loan Refinance Offers

Advertising Disclosure

[wptb id="15454" not found ] Types of Interest Rates As mentioned above, all federal loans have fixed interest rates. That is not the case for refinanced loans. Generally, like home mortgages, they come in two flavors: fixed and variable. Fixed interest rates stay the same throughout the term and result in the same minimum monthly payment until it’s paid off. Variable interest rates tend to start out low, many times lower than fixed but can change depending on the Federal Reserve and LIBOR. There is usually a max or capped interest rate and specific frequency in which it could change. Although variable rates can be very attractive, depending on the fluctuation, it could cost you thousands in interest. So if you decide to go this route, you have to be comfortable with the risk of rates climbing and increasing your monthly payment. Besides fixed and variable, you may also encounter hybrid interest rates. In general, these are rates that stay fixed for a certain number of years and then changes to variable. Typical Requirements to Refinance Private lenders will not refinance student loans for anyone. You will be required to have a minimum credit score (usually at least 650), lending amount, proof of a certain level of income, and potentially a certain debt to income ratio. This will vary from lender to lender and not only will these items determine your eligibility, but it will also impact your quoted rate. Getting Multiple Quotes You probably have received mail or emails from companies encouraging you to refinance with them. Even though you may be familiar with some brands or heard of good experiences about a particular one from friends and family, be sure you get multiple quotes to find the best deal. When you are shopping around to find the best rate, companies will run a soft check of your credit to give you an accurate quote. This will not affect your credit score but if you proceed to a full application, then you could see a very minor drop. When you receive quotes, this will usually be reported as fixed or variable along with the respective payment terms. Most companies have terms of 5,7,10,15, and 20 years and typically, the shorter the term, the better the rate.

Step 3: Do the Math

Even if you think there’s a clear winner for the payoff strategy that’s best for you it’s important to get crystal clear on the numbers. Knowing the projected total amount paid (including interest) for all of the strategies available will help you get clarity on which option will save you the most money. The Repayment Estimator at studentaid.gov will help you determine the cost for the federal repayment plans. To determine your savings and new projected payments from refinancing check out our refinance calculator. Besides knowing your options and the total amount paid, you have to analyze how the monthly payments would fit into your budget. If you are too aggressive it may put you in a tough position and may limit your ability to contribute to your other financial goals.

Step 4: Evaluate Factors Beyond the Math

It can be easy to simply look at the numbers, find the strategy and repayment plan that costs you the least over time, and call it day. Although that can work and the math itself will likely hold the most weight, there are some things to consider beyond the numbers. Your emotions and attitude toward your loans can have a big impact on your payoff strategy. If you are someone who is really anxious and has difficulty sleeping knowing you’re still in debt, you may feel inclined to pay it off as fast as you can rather than waiting the time for a forgiveness program. Mathematically, it may not even make sense to do this but it does give you more control and could make you feel a lot better about your situation. Now if the potential savings with a forgiveness program is overwhelming then you may just need a coach or a financial planner to help you along the way. When you choose and stick with a payoff strategy there will always be trade-offs or an opportunity cost. For example, if you choose a payoff strategy that results in a very high monthly payment, you will not able to put as much money toward investing, home buying, entertainment, etc. Depending on your projected time to payoff and years left working, you may not be willing to deeply sacrifice some of your other financial goals. With tuition reimbursement programs in addition to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, your career options will be more limited to fully reap the benefits of these programs. Since tuition reimbursement is mostly based on years of service for a particular company or organization, you have to be willing to stay employed there for the required time to realize the maximum benefit. Similarly, with PSLF you are essentially locked into working for a government or nonprofit organization for 10 years. If you have other career aspirations or plans on the table during this decade, you will have to weigh that against tax-free forgiven loan balance.

Step 5: Determine Your Payoff Strategy and Optimize

Ok, if you have read everything up to this point, first off congratulations. That was a ton of material! By now you should have considered the options available to you, figured out the math, and weighed in the other considerations putting you in a position to choose your payoff strategy for the first time or reorganize one you have already had in place. Because everyone has a unique situation with different loan balances, goals, and attitudes, there’s no way to say that one strategy is the best for all. However, I do think there are some truths that are going to stand strong the majority of the time. First, if you have access to a tuition reimbursement/repayment program, take it! This is free money! Most of these programs are 2-5 years and depending on the specific one, it could knock out all or a huge chunk of your debt. If you’re not fortunate enough to get into one of these programs or you have maxed out that benefit, most pharmacists should either choose PSLF or the non-forgiveness route via refinancing. However, if you have a high debt:income ratio and are not eligible for PSLF, you should also strongly consider non-PSLF forgiveness. Below is a flowchart summary of how to navigate the different strategies. pharmacists student loan forgiveness guide If you have the typical pharmacist student loan balance, it’s really hard to argue against PSLF. The math is not even close. You will pay thousands less than any other strategy. But not only that, you have the opportunity to optimize this strategy and be on the fast lane to building some serious wealth. Since your monthly payments through the program are dependent on your discretionary income and therefore adjusted gross income, there are ways you can lower payments while simultaneously investing aggressively. The key ways to do this will be maxing out traditional 401(k) contributions and HSA (if available to you). It’s possible to also count traditional IRA contributions. However, because the phase-out for this is a MAGI of $74,000 for single, and $123,000 for married filing jointly if you are covered by an employer-sponsored plan, most pharmacists will not be eligible to get the deduction. For more information on how to maximize forgiveness, check out this podcast episode. Now if PSLF is off the table, either because you don’t meet the qualifications or you don’t want to wait 10 years and rely on the government, refinancing is a strong option. Refinancing student loans after pharmacy school should be done as you can if it makes sense so you don’t pay any unnecessary interest.

Considerations During Pharmacy Residency or Fellowship

Doing a pharmacy residency is a great way to further your skills and knowledge and can unlock some great job opportunities. However, for 1-2 years, depending on your path, it can be difficult just trying to pay bills and survive let alone fight through student loans with only 1/3 of a typical pharmacist salary. Since the grace period for student loans will usually end midway through your PGY1 experience, you will have to make some decisions at that point. If you do nothing, you will be put in the 10-year standard repayment plan and unless you have significant side income or a working significant other, that payment is not going to be feasible if you have a typical loan balance. One of the biggest mistakes that I see residents make is putting their loans in deferment or forbearance. On the surface, this doesn’t seem like that big of an issue and will allow you to stop making payments during your pharmacy residency. However, interest will continue to accrue and there are much better options! First, you definitely want to keep PSLF in mind and if your residency program is a qualifying employer and you plan on continuing to work there or another qualifying employer, you want to make sure you start the process ASAP. One of the huge benefits of doing a pharmacy residency and pursuing PSLF is that for 1-2 years you could be making very minimal student loan payments. Think about it. If you made little to no money during your last year of pharmacy school, you could be making $0 qualifying payments or very little during your first year of residency based on your current salary. If you do a second year of residency, your payments will again likely be very low since it’s based on that salary. As I mentioned earlier, IBR, ICR, REPAYE, and PAYE are all qualifying repayment plans for PSLF but what is the best one for pharmacy residency? While most of these are based on 10% of your discretionary income except ICR, REPAYE has some unique features. For all Direct Unsubsidized loans, the government will pay 50% of the interest that accrues every month if your loan payment is less than the amount of the monthly interest. So let’s assume you have $160,000 in student loans at 7% interest. $933 in interest will accrue every month as soon as the grace period ends. If your payment is $0 which very well could be if you had little to no income in your last year of pharmacy school, the amount of interest that would accrue would only be $466. Plus, that $0 payment would still count as a qualifying payment toward PSLF. pharmacy residency Even if you don’t continue working for a qualifying employer post-residency and won’t be pursuing PSLF, REPAYE would help reduce the accumulated interest during your years of training. Because the different repayment plans have different rules regarding how spousal income is incorporated you definitely want to also keep that in mind when choosing the best repayment plan during residency. Refinancing is not likely going to be an option during residency unless you have substantial side income since your debt to income ratio would be too high to get approved and it could be difficult making the monthly payments even if the term is extended to 15 or 20 years. Even if you are enrolled in an income-driven plan during residency, you could technically make “extra” payments if you wanted. However, this would not make sense if there is a possibility of going for PSLF since your goal is to pay the least amount of money possible. If you are pursuing PSLF and find you have a little disposable income each month, instead of paying extra on loans consider contributing to your 401(k) if available, IRA, or HSA.

Conclusion

The average student loan debt to income ratio for new pharmacists has increased significantly in the past decade. This has resulted in pharmacists being in debt longer and can significantly impact the ability to save and invest and put delay other financial goals and life events. There are a number of ways to tackle pharmacy student loans and choosing the wrong strategy could cost you thousands. It’s important to calculate the total amount paid and determine the monthly payments to get a clear picture of your options. Also, you should consider the factors in play beyond the math so that you can choose a plan that most closely aligns with your goals. If you still have questions or are unsure about what to do with your loans, you can always reach out to us and schedule a 1-on-1 consult. We will develop a customized plan that considers multiple scenarios and helps you determine how to save the most money. It will also include any tax implications that may be in play with forgiveness programs.

YFP 071: Ask Tim & Tim


Ask Tim & Tim

On Episode 71 of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, Tim Ulbrich, Founder of YFP, and Tim Baker, YFP Team Member and Founder of Script Financial, tackle 10 listener questions that were posed in the YFP Facebook Group, covering a wide array of topics like investing, refinancing student loans after pharmacy school, taxes, and more.

Have a question you would like answered on a future episode of the show? Make sure to join the YFP Facebook Group to pose your question to the YFP community or shoot us an email at [email protected].

Summary

Tim Ulbrich and Tim Baker field 10 questions from the YFP community. The first question asks about the pros and cons of a traditional 401k versus a Roth 401k. Tim Baker explains that “Roth” means after tax (Roth 401K, Roth 403B, Roth IRA) and a traditional 401k means pre-tax. He explains that there are different participant contribution amounts to 401Ks and that you are able to have a traditional IRA and Roth IRA that you can put aggregate money in each year in separate systems. Question 2 asks, what is something you wish you would’ve started in pharmacy school based on what you know now? Tim Ulbrich says first become educated, especially around student loans, work in school to help set yourself up for a career to to form connections and skills, and, lastly, look at the amount of money you are borrowing as real money that you’ll need to pay back. Question 3 asks how to start earning interest on monetary gifts a child has received. Tim Baker responds that first you need to know the goal of the money. From there, you can put it in a high yield savings account or CD or put it in an index fund. However, a 529 is probably the best vehicle for the money to be put in, as it offers tax advantages. Question 4 asks about unconventional pharmacy jobs. Tim Ulbrich says that 45% of jobs are in community pharmacy and 30-40% are in residence training, however there are still many different avenues of unconventional pharmacy jobs to explore. The best advice is to find a mentorship, either within your college or outside, to help you see other possibilities. Question 5 asks about online banking and suggested companies other than Ally. Tim Baker says that it’s important to gauge the ease of use, customer service, and fees charged. These online bank accounts are best used for separate emergency funds or storage accounts.

Question 6 asks if there is any benefit to staying with the same home and auto insurance or switching companies for a better rate. Tim Ulbrich suggests that you should assess the price with the service you receive. Nickel and diming policy coverage over a company you are happy with should be avoided as it’s important to put value over relationship. However, if there is a significant savings, then, of course, switching makes sense. Question 7 asks what should be taken for an initial appointment with a financial advisor and what questions should be asked. Tim Baker says it’s important to ask good questions, such as how would we interact and how often, are you fee only or fiduciary, how is the fee calculated and how are you compensated? If you are going to a financial advisor strictly for guidance with student loans, be aware of how much knowledge they have. Question 8 asks if anyone has repaid their student loans through the federal government with income based options, such as IBR or PAYE, and if the better option is refinancing student loans after pharmacy school. Rim Ulbrich says that you have to assess what the best repayment option is for you. Run the numbers, look at the feelings you have toward carrying student loan debt for 20-25 years, assess your financial goals, and lay our all of your options. From there, you are able to make a decision. Question 8 asks if it’s better to file taxes married filed separately when a spouse is eligible for PSLF. Tim Baker explains that there are situations that married filed separately is the right way to go, however, it depends on the repayment plan. He suggests to do a tax projection and student loan analysis to see if you’re approaching the situation in the best way possible. Lastly, question 10 asks if someone should stick with federal loans to keep a minimum payment down or refinance to lower their interest rate. Tim Ulbrich suggests that as the interest rate market rises, refinance offers may not be as attractive. If you refinance on $100,000, a 1-2% interest rate change in refinancing may largely affect how much you are repaying. Regardless of the math, refinancing is off of the table if you are pursuing PSLF.

Mentioned on the Show

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich: Hey, what’s up, everybody? Welcome to Episode 071 of the podcast. Excited to be alongside Tim Baker as we dive into an Ask Tim & Tim episode where we take a wide array of questions, 10 from the YFP community that were posed in the YFP Facebook group. So Tim Baker, how you doing?

Tim Baker: Doing well, how about you, Tim?

Tim Ulbrich: Good. So you’re back from Iceland. Welcome back. How was the trip?

Tim Baker: Oh, it was awesome. Yeah, it was great. You know, I feel like the last few weeks has been crazy, but it was good to get away. I think I literally didn’t touch my phone for about a week. So now I’m trying to get back into the swing of things, but Iceland is an interesting place to visit for sure.
Tim Ulbrich: It seems like I’ve noticed a lot of friends from college and coworkers are taking that trip, it seems like on the East Coast here. I know Cleveland has direct flights over to Iceland, I’m guessing something similar by you guys. Seems like a popular destination to begin to see that part of the world.

Tim Baker: Yeah, it’s funny because like prohibition ended like for beer, I think in like the late ‘90s — don’t quote me on that — which was interesting. But I think since then, the tourism has become the biggest staple in Iceland, moreso than fishing. But you have a combination of just like incredible scenery, like almost where you’re on a different planet. And of course, beer drinking and things like that. So yeah, it was great. It’s one of those vacations where you’re out in the country, but it’s somewhat affordable. It’s expensive when you get there in terms of like food and things. But oh man, it was great. Just good to get away and reset and, you know, I’m ready for the final quarter of the year.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, welcome back. We’re excited to jump into this episode. And we’re actually getting together end of this week in West Palm Beach, Florida, where Tim Church lives. We have a YFP retreat, so excited to be jumping into all things YFP. And actually, as a part of that time that we’re together — to our listeners, we’re going to be recording an episode that’s taking all questions related to investing. So if you’re listening to this episode and you have a question, all questions investing, shoot us an email at [email protected] or jump on the YFP Facebook group and pose your question and we’ll make sure to feature that on the upcoming episode where we do that Q&A session. Alright, so here’s the format. We’re going to go back and forth. We have 10 questions, great questions from the community. We’re going to read the question, we’re going to answer them between the two of us, and then we’ll jump in with some feedback that the community has provided as well. So Question 1, Tim Baker, comes from Nidhee (?), and he asks, “What are the pros and cons of a traditional 401k versus Roth? Currently, I’m trying to maximize my traditional 401k. Any suggestions would be helpful.” What do you think?

Tim Baker: Yeah, such a great question. And you’re starting to see more and more 401k’s offer a Roth component. So just kind of to break this down for listeners who are kind of a little murky about this, anytime you see “Roth” before 401k, 403b, IRA, you’re going to think after-tax. So the money that gets thrown into that account is after-tax. Now, if you see a traditional 401k, traditional IRA and traditional 403b, you’re going to think pre-tax. So the money goes into that bucket pre-tax. And typically, the opposite is true when the money comes out. So it goes in pre-tax, it usually grows tax-free, and then it comes out taxed. And then the opposite is true if it goes in after-tax, it grows tax-free, and it comes out tax-free in the after-tax world. So to get back to the question, I think the Roth component is actually a great component to the 401k because a lot of pharmacists because of their salary, they make too much to actually contribute directly to a Roth IRA. So when you sign up for your 401k or when you’re adjusting your 401k, you’re going to want to see if there is a Roth component and if that makes sense for your particular situation. In our last episode, we kind of talked about all the different levers to pull when it comes to, you know, should I pay the tax now? Should I defer the tax? What does that look like? And this is actually one that you can do. So a lot of people get confused by kind of the Roth 401k because it really, you can’t commingle those accounts. So it actually looks like you have two accounts when you’re funding this. So basically, you go in and you would see a balance for your traditional 401k. And if there’s a match, that’s where all your match dollars are going to go from your employer. But for your Roth, if you’re deciding to fund that, you know, those are basically funded with after-tax dollars. So you would go in and you would set up an allocation similar to your 401k, your traditional 401k. And essentially, the difference would be just if those dollars are taxed or not. So that’s essentially the basics there.

Tim Ulbrich: Tim, one of the questions I often get here — and I think it’s good just to clarify for our listeners because the term “Roth” gets confusing when they see it as a Roth 401k versus a Roth IRA. Does the Roth contribution towards a Roth 401k go towards or impact the total of the $5,500 that you can contribute in a Roth IRA? Or are those completely separate buckets?

Tim Baker: Yeah, to kind of draw the lines around the 401k and the IRA. So you as a participant in the 401k, you can put in $18,500 — these are 2018 numbers — per year in aggregate between a traditional 401k and a Roth 401k. In the same breath, you can also have a traditional IRA and a Roth IRA that you can put an aggregate $5,500 per year. So these are, they’re essentially separate systems. So if you put money into a Roth IRA, it doesn’t necessarily affect how much money you can put into a Roth 401k.

Tim Ulrich: Got it, thank you.

Tim Baker: So the next question for you, Tim, is a great question from the Facebook group. “My name is Steven. I recently joined the group, and I really enjoy all of your posts about business and financials. I am in my third year in pharmacy school and wanted to ask you this question. Knowing what you know now, what is something you wish you would have done or started in pharmacy school?” That’s a great question.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, great question, Steven. And first of all, kudos to you for being proactive as you’re in pharmacy school. I think so many in this community — and I think some even commented in the feed of the question that you posed saying, “Hey, I wish I would have been thinking about this sooner,” and I know that’s something, Tim, that I often think back of, wow, what would have happened if I would have actually dove into this topic, been a little bit more proactive instead of reactive where looked up, had a ton of debt and then tried to figure it out and felt the pain. And that was the beginning of trying to figure this out. And I think that gets to the point of my answer to Steven’s question. If I had to go back and do it all over again — and this is not a sexy answer — to me, it’s all about being educated, specifically probably around student loans for many of the students that are listening. You know, I think as I look back, I was trying to dabble in the Roth IRAs and learn some other things here or there. All the while, I had student loans that are accruing above $152,000 at 6.8% interest, I didn’t have really a solid emergency fund, and I was just doing things out of order because I didn’t have a good education and understanding of what it meant to have a solid financial base. And that even, to me, trickled into new practitioner life where I was getting ahead of myself in some areas around kids’ college saving and other things at the expense of having, again, a solid emergency fund, the right life insurance protection, making sure I had end-of-life planning documents, all the things that we’ve talked about before around having a solid financial plan. So Steven, the one thing I would do, which you’re obviously doing, is getting involved in this topic, being educated. And hopefully you can inspire your peers and your friends and your coworkers to do the same. The other thing that I would do — and I know a couple people had responded, and actually, we had a response from Steve, who is another fourth-year student. And one of the things he mentioned was definitely work in school. And I would advocate for that. And I know I had a lot of faculty members who would tell me, “Hey, don’t work in school. You’ve got to focus on your academics.” Of course you have to graduate, otherwise your degree and not having one is counterproductive. But many students who can balance these things — I’m not saying you need to work 30-40 hours a week. But obviously a little work experience is going to, you know, provide a little bit of a financial component. But probably more important, it’s going to set you up for career components, going to allow you to begin to form those connections in your network, and I think as I now see new practitioners coming into the workforce, I think it gives you those skills that you just aren’t going to get in school, right? Dealing with difficult customers and time management and coworkers and understanding all of the things beyond the books and what you’re learning in school. So Steve, if you haven’t yet too, make sure to take a look at the responses from your peers and some of the group because there was some great feedback around — you know, I really like what Vbar (?) had to say about “borrow only what you need for tuition and fees because these student loans are killers.” And we say this over and over again on the podcast that if you look at the average indebtedness of a pharmacy graduate, those numbers are often double what are the numbers for tuition and fees. And that’s because of the borrowing that’s happening for cost of living expenses. So do everything that you can, especially in the interest rate market we’re in for student loans, everything you can to minimize the costs you’re borrowing while in school.

Tim Baker: And I think just to piggyback on that, Tim, one of the things that I think I hear quite a bit is it’s almost like Monopoly money, you know, like the loans you’re taking out. So I think if you can, you know, in your mind, make it real. And I think the best way to do that is to, you know — I know that with the average debt load being $160,000, I know that a standard — that equates to a standard payment of like $1,800 and change. So if you have loans that are $320,000, then you’re looking at a $3,600 payment. So obviously listeners, if you’re P3, P4, you’re going to know more or less where you’re going to fall in that, so I think — like you said, if you can work — anything you can do to kind of make it more real. And I think once it becomes more real, then you’re more likely to actually be intentional, I think, with what you’re trying to do, whether it’s working or just being more frugal as a student. I think the sooner you do that, I think the better you will be as you enter into repayment.

Tim Ulbrich: Great advice. Great advice. Our third question comes from Rachel in the Facebook group, who says, “My husband and I just had our first child and want to start earning her interest on the monetary gifts we have received for her. Any advice and suggestions?” So Tim Baker, I’m guessing maybe there’s a question behind the question here around college savings for kids or just investing money long-term for a child. What are your thoughts? And what do you do with clients typically in this arena?

Tim Baker: Yeah, I think the question with the question would be like, well, what’s the goal? What are we thinking we want this money for? If we want something that’s a sure thing and we want to be able to access this when the child is growing up for whatever reason, then something like a high-yield savings account or a CD might be the best bet. If it’s more of a long-term goal and we don’t really have an education goal in mind, maybe it’s just sticking the money in an index fund. But more acutely, I think the 529 would probably be the best vehicle to put money into that these monetary gifts, even some of these 529s are getting pretty creative. Like I know the Maryland 529, you know, I can send out links to grandparents and aunts and uncles and say, “Hey, contribute to Olivia’s 529.” I think the big advantage there is you typically, most states will give some type of tax deduction. And even with the new tax code we talked about a little bit last episode, you know, the 529 can now be used for kind of secondary school, high school, middle school, that type of thing. So you can actually use it as a pass-through to get a state tax deduction. But then longer term, you can invest it similarly like you would your 401k, your IRA, where you’re putting money in there and as it accumulates over 15, 16, 17 years, it provides a return on the investment that you can apply towards your child’s education. So you know, there’s a lot of I guess different sides to the answer. And same thing with 401k’s and IRAs and things like that, not all of them are created equal. So you’re going to want to really pay attention to fees and the investments that are there for you. But obviously, your state is going to play a role in that. But those would be kind of the top things that I would rattle off in terms of advice and suggestions.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, just a couple things to add there, you know, especially knowing where we are in the year and coming up on the month of November, if Rachel, if her and her husband are thinking 529 — and I don’t know, I’m guessing this is every state in terms of the income tax deduction, I know here in Ohio I think the limit to that is $2,000. And so depending on the amount that they’re looking at doing, there may be a play there to divide some between the 2018 and some between the 2019 year rather than going above that $2,000. And I think you and Paul did an awesome job last week talking about that in the context of tax. The other thing I think about here, Rachel and to the broader community that’s listening — and Tim Baker, you helped I think Jess and I realize this, that not only the why of what the goal is, what you’re trying to do, what you’re trying to achieve, but I think for those of us that graduated with tons of student loan debt, we tend to probably be compensated a little bit too much on the other side when it comes to kids’ college because we want to avoid that, naturally, for our own kids, right? And so I’m not suggesting here that Rachel, you and your husband take your child’s money that was received for your child, but I am just bringing up the point that as you and your husband talk through this going into the future, making sure that college savings for children is done so in the appropriate context of your own financial plan. And I’ve seen a lot of new practitioners, myself included, who, again, to my point earlier, maybe don’t have those foundational items like the right insurance and emergency fund, etc. but are running off saving for kids’ college, and that’s 18+ years away. So again, just thinking about the priority and the order of things within a financial plan.

refinance student loans

Tim Baker: Yeah. I’ve actually had some clients like stop at a certain amount of kids because their goal was to pay 100%. And I mean, obviously, it’s a personal choice. But there’s different ways you can go about funding education, it’s important to kind of talk with your partner and maybe a planner to kind of work through that. So great question by Rachel. So Tim, next question for you is — this is from Elise. “With the ever-changing pharmacy job market, I’m starting to think more about unconventional pharmacist jobs, i.e. not in hospital or retail. I think in school, we’re kind of programmed to believe that those are our only two choices, so it’s hard to even know where to begin looking for what else is out there. I’m wondering if anyone has experienced doing something other than hospital or retail that they really enjoy and is financially stable, offers good perks and benefits. Thanks.”

Tim Ulbrich: This is a great question, Elise. Thanks for taking the time to pose it. And I got fired up when I saw this question, Tim, because in my former day job at Neomed, I did a lot of career counseling, advising with our students. And I cannot tell you how often I heard from our own students, even as a P1 or a P2, even before they’ve really been getting along that path of looking for jobs, there tends to be this mindset that Elise is describing of, I’ve got one of two options, right? I’ve got retail community pharmacy, and I’ve got hospital pharmacy, which more often than not means residents to train.

Tim Baker: Right.

Tim Ulbrich: And really, if you look at the workforce data, the reason people think that is valid. If you look at the last workforce survey that was pushed, 45% of all pharmacists’ jobs are in the community pharmacy sector. Now, that can be obviously retail chains, CVS, Walgreens, etc. It could be independent pharmacies, but that’s almost half of the workforce. So that’s why I think you see — and depending on the school that graduates, you’ll see these numbers upwards of 50, 60, 70% depending on the region and the job that they have available. And then I know at Neomed, we saw 30-40% of our grads every year would go into residency training. So you put those two together, and that’s 80% or so of a graduating class. And so I think it’s easy for students and new practitioners to think these are my only two options. And for those listening that also have this question, please make sure to go check out the Facebook group and look at the answers because there’s some great examples out there that were highlighted of people that are doing different things. Somebody’s working for a hospice, pharmacy benefit manager on the side. People that are in pharmacy informatics. Nate Hedrick, who we’ve had featured on the show, the Real Estate RPH, during our September series on home buying, talks a little bit about his job working for a pharmacy benefit manager as a sales team clinical liaison. So very unique, niche position. And he actually I know did an in-patient hospital residency. So there’s many different paths and options, and I think the advice I would have to somebody asking this question is begin to find the mentorship and the people that are going to offer you this viewpoint, if you don’t feel like you can get it as a student at the college that you’re at. So are there new practitioners, are there people with an organizations, associations that you’re connected with that have these positions that are the “nontraditional” or unconventional positions that you can begin to form those relationships and networks and get them to help you along this process because the reality is we all know pharmacy’s a small world and we know that when it comes to these niche markets, it’s all about networking and building those relationships. So if you want to find something beyond the hospital, community pharmacy world, go find those practitioners who are out there. You know, you’ve talked before on this podcast, Tim, the 1,000 cups of coffee. You meet with people, have them introduce you to three more people, and keep going and going and going. And it may take 10 or 20 or 30 conversations, or it may take two, but doors will open over time. And you’ve just got to put the work and effort into doing that. The other thing I would just highlight, Elise, in response to your question, is if you haven’t done so already, check out the side hustle series that Tim Church has been doing on this podcast, episodes 069 and 063, also in episode 038, we had Alex Barker from the Happy PharmD on talking about his journey. He’s got some great context — or excuse me, he’s got some great information on the unconventional jobs that are out there. And then Tony Guerra, pharmacy leader and podcast host, we had him on in episode 053 as well, did a great job of talking about some of these other options. So Elise, thanks for your question. Alright Tim Baker, question 5 here comes from Lane inside the Facebook group. “What other banks do people use besides Ally? A Google search showed Northfield Bank offers higher APY.” And I think maybe we’ve brainwashed our audience unintentionally about Ally because you and I are Ally users, and we get giddy when we get the rate increase emails that come. I think they usually come on Friday afternoons.

Tim Baker: Yeah, and I think I missed the last one because when I was researching a bit for this question, I saw that Ally’s now at 1.9%, so I think I missed that last bump, which I’m pretty excited about.

Tim Ulbrich: So what — and maybe, so Lane is asking here what other banks do people use? But maybe there’s a better question here — not to hijack her question — is what should people be looking for when they’re choosing a bank specifically for more of that long-term savings, you know, emergency fund and whatnot.

Tim Baker: Yeah, so I think that having a bank set aside for kind of your long-time savings like emergency fund and storage account, which might be like a travel fund, a car maintenance, a home maintenance fund, I think what you’re really trying to find is something that there’s ease of use, there’s an app, there’s a website, that doesn’t charge fees, that you can move money in and out fairly easy. And for me, like when I started kind of recommending, I found that when I started working with clients, this was kind of a topic that came up over and over again. Where should I bank? And where should I put money? And again, it’s not something that most financial planners I think even think about because it’s very much investment-centric, and we’re not really thinking about budgeting and debt and things like that. But this was kind of a key question that came up over and over again, so when I did research on this topic awhile ago, those were some of the things that I was trying to figure out. OK, where is the best bank to park money and get a little bit of return and not be charged fees and all that kind of stuff. So I actually tested out Ally, Synchrony Bank, Capital One, and I think Barclays was the fourth one I looked at. And although Synchrony at the time was kind of providing a little bit more return, I just found that from a great experience across the board, Ally was far and away better in terms of opening accounts, moving money in and out of it, just the app, all that stuff. To me, I think Ally was head and shoulders, even I think above Capital One 360, which obviously is a huge bank. So again, I’m a big proponent of kind of keeping this type of banking kind of separate from your everyday kind of monthly expenses. So if you bank with BNC or Chase or something like that, I like kind of a separate entity that is going to park kind of your emergency fund and kind of those storage accounts for those particular goals. So that was just my experience in testing these out. And obviously, you know, it’s a little bit of an arms race because these companies are putting money into their apps and things like that. But at the same time, I think Ally — and even for me, I know, Tim, you and Jess are using Ally. And again, we don’t get any type of benefit from talking about Ally. I just think that they have a great solution.

Tim Ulbrich: You know, it’s funny how far we’ve come in this online banking. Do you remember when Ally came out and it was kind of like, really? Are we going to do banking online? I remember those days. And you know, great customer service and I think you can obviously find that with other banks as well, but I think looking at some of the components you mentioned is great advice.

Tim Baker: OK, so next question comes from Kara. “Home and auto insurance question. Is there any benefit to staying with the same company? We have had the same company forever, but I called MetLife to get quotes because I can get a corporate discount through my employer. For the same exact coverage, auto policies are almost half as much. Switch and save money?”

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, this is a great question. And actually, I just went through this in the move of getting a re-quote on home and auto. And you know, obviously as Kara mentions, the number half as much, it’s hard to not say, switch. But I think you always have to consider this in the context of price versus the service that you receive. And obviously, there’s a point where you’re going to be able to save a significant amount of money. But don’t — I guess what I’m trying to say here is don’t nickel and dime policy coverage for a company that you’re happy working with that you have a quick connection if you need it and that is responsive, obviously, in the times that you need them to be responsive. And Nate Hedrick really highlighted this for me as I asked him for his input as I was shopping around on home and auto. And that was his advice back to me is, you know, look at the total cost of the policies. And if you’re talking about saving $20 or $30 and you have somebody that’s an email or a phone call away that you have a relationship with, you have to put value to that relationship. Now, obviously if you’re talking about a policy that’s half as much, unless it’s just atrocious customer service and you’re not going to be able to get that same coverage, then obviously there’s a point where switching makes sense to save some money. The other thing I always encourage people to do is make sure you look side-by-side, whether it’s a home or auto insurance policy, look side-by-side to see the coverage that you’re getting is the same because if your deductibles are changing or coverage isn’t as good, obviously that may explain the price difference. But if you loko side-by-side and say, “OK. All coverage is equal,” now you’ve got to really weigh this against what is the level of the relationships and the customer service and how much am I going to save on this? Kelsey also makes a good point. In responding to Kara, she says, “I think it depends on the company. Some will now give you money back after x amount of years you don’t have a claim. My sister is an insurance agent, and the company she had me switch to will give us back 25% of our payment if we have no claims for three years.” So obviously, that policy is built in a way that incentivizes that relationship over time. So different factors that you have to consider as you’re looking at these different companies. Alright, Tim Baker, question No. 7, Devin asks, “Hello everyone, I’m meeting with a financial advisor tomorrow, and I was wondering if there was anything I may forget to bring them that you all think would be helpful. I’m a recent graduate.” So recent graduate, going to meet with a financial advisor, what information should they be bringing? Or what questions should they be asking? What do you think?

Tim Baker: I think typically when I meet with a kind of a prospective client, I don’t have them bring anything except for questions. I know some people’s process is different. They might start kind of getting down to some of the details of kind of the work they would do and everything. But for me, I think it’s just a matter of like do I have a connection with this particular person? Do I see myself working with them for a long period of time? And in Devin’s case, it might not be a long period of time. It might be I’m just trying to get a few questions answered and then I’m going to move on. So that would be kind of the question that I would ask first is how would we interact? And how often? I think the big thing is — and again, I’m biased here — is are you fee-only? Are you a fiduciary? You know, how is your fee calculated and compensated? Can I clearly see what I’m paying you? And nine times out of 10, these will send financial advisors squirming. And I think if you see that, then it’s probably a good indication to kind of go in the other direction. You know, just a lot of financial advisors, they have minimums. So you have to have — it’s kind of like, hey, I can help you, but only if you have a quarter million dollars or something like that.

Tim Ulbrich: Right.

Tim Baker: Or I don’t have minimums, but typically when you don’t have minimums, typically that particular client is maybe ignored more so than someone who does a quarter million dollars. So I think there’s a variety of questions. I think some of my FAQs that I would give a person to ask their financial planner — and I think a big one is around like what are the conflicts of interest? Are you a fiduciary? Are you fee-only? And from my experience, the majority of financial advisors out there — and I can say this with confidence that the majority of financial advisors out there are not going to be keen on a lot of the issues that pharmacists deal with, and the big one being student loans. A lot of — one of the reasons that I decided to kind of move on from my last firm was because there wasn’t a whole lot of understanding or process around student loans, which obviously is a major pain point for pharmacists. So if Devin, if this is one of the big things that you’re going to talk with a financial planner about, ask good questions because I would suspect that a lot of people in our Facebook group, a lot of our listeners, know more about student loans than some of my counterparts, sad to say.

Tim Ulbrich: Mhm. Yeah and Devin, make sure to check out YourFinancialPharmacist.com/financial-planner if you haven’t yet done so. Again, YourFinancialPharmacist.com/financieal-planner. We built out an entire page really getting to the gist of your question. We have a free guide that answers a lot of what to look for in a financial planner. We have a list of questions that you can ask inside of that document. What are the qualifications you should be looking for, some of the things that Tim talked about there. And then also on that page, we have referenced episodes 015, 016 and 017, where Tim Baker and I talk through a lot of this as well. And on that page, for those that are interested, you can also schedule a free call with Tim Baker if you’re interested in learning more about working with a financial planner and the value that he can provide. Alright, Tim, I think we’ve got three more, right?

Tim Baker: Yeah, let’s do it. So this question is from Sabina. So the question is, “Has anyone repaid student loans through the federal government and utilized the income-based options such as PAYE or IBR, both of which list forgiveness after 20 years as an option. Any recommendations on that approach versus refinancing with private companies?”

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, thank you, Sabina, for your question. And what really she’s asking here about is what we called in Episode 062 “the other forgiveness.” So we’ve talked a lot on the show about Public Student Loan Forgiveness, PSLF. In Episode 018, we talked about that. I think we’ve mentioned it probably in 15 other episodes, right?

Tim Baker: I think so, yeah.

Tim Ulbrich: And I’m glad we did because I posted in the group last night, there’s a lot of negative news coming out about PSLF, and I’m not going to get on the soapbox right now. News article that 99% of borrowers that applied for forgiveness didn’t get it. And while you and I think we both agree that the federal government and the loan servicers could do 1,000,000% better job than what they’ve done in terms of the PR or the press and all of this, if you really dig into the details of why people aren’t Public Student Loan Forgiveness, most of it if not all of it really isn’t a surprise. It’s either they haven’t consolidated to the right loans, they’re not in the right repayment options or they’re not working for a qualifying employer. So as I mentioned on that episode, dotting your i’s, crossing your t’s is critical. If you have questions, let us know. But what Sabina is asking is about the other forgiveness, non-PSLF forgiveness. So if you stay inside the federal student loan repayment system, and she mentioned two of the income-driven repayment plans, PAYE and IBR, after a certain period of time, 20 or 25 years, depending on the plan, there is an option for forgiveness. And the key here is you do not have to work for a qualifying employer, which is different than PSLF. However, the amount that’s forgiven is taxable, unlike PSLF, where it’s tax-free. So there’s some planning that has to be done with tax. All that we covered inside Episode 062. And so I’d reference our listeners to Episode 062, Sabina the same. And also, she’s asking about refinance. And I think the question here behind the question is what is the best repayment option for Sabina? And I know many of our listeners and followers have that question. Should I refinance? Should I stay in the standard 10-year repayment program? Should I choose one of the income-driven repayment plans? Should I go PSLF? Should I not? If I do refinance, is it five years? Seven years? Ten years? Fifteen years? And we talk a lot about choosing the best repayment option, and we’ve got a full course around that topic, specifically that I would point our listeners to as well. So Sabina, without being able to dig into the numbers, this really comes down to lots of different factors such as running the numbers on each of these options, what’s the math? What are your feelings towards having these loans around for 20+ years? What are other financial goals you’re trying to achieve? What’s your progress in those goals? And I think at the end of the day, what I’m trying to encourage you and our listeners to do is to lay out all of the options, refinance, no refinance, forgiveness, no forgiveness, PSLF, non-PSL Forgiveness — and then from there, look at all the numbers, consider some of the non-math factors, and you can move on and make that decision to ensure that you’ve got this big decision and you’ve made the best decision for your financial plan. Tim Baker, question No. 9 is from Blake, who asked, “My wife is a PA, and I’m a pharmacist. She’s eligible for PSLF, and I am not. She’s set up on an income-based repayment plan, but this will be the first year where we both have a full year of income when we go to file our taxes. We’re wondering if there is a best way to file taxes to keep her payments low to maximize the amount that’s forgiven. I didn’t know if we filed our taxes as married filing separate, would it be more beneficial than filing together?” What do you think?

Tim Baker: Yeah, it’s a great question. And it’s kind of similar to our last question. It’s kind of difficult to dig into without all of the nitty gritty details. But you know, I would say that I think that there are situations where with student loans and spousal income that married file it separately is the right way to go. And I actually have a few clients that are doing that. It also depends on what repayment plan you’re in. So if you’re in a REPAYE — and if you’re in PSLF, those are going to be the two that you are really going to want to look at is Revised Pay as You Earn and Pay as You Earn. One of them, REPAYE, it doesn’t matter how you file. It’s going to count both spousal income. Pay as You Earn, it does matter how you file, depending on if you do file married filing separately will only account for the one spousal income. So I think you have to actually sit down and maybe do a tax projection, so we talked about that last time. If you’re interested, YourFinancialPharmacist.com/tax, we’re doing tax projections right now. And maybe actually couple that with kind of a student loan consult, student loan analysis, just to see am I approaching this the most efficient way as possible. Now, it is a pain in the neck to file with your spouse to file separately for 10 years. That’s not fun. And for nine out of 10 scenarios, just strictly from a tax perspective, married filing separately offers few benefits. But if you look at it, and your benefit or your payment is hundreds of dollars a month or even equate to thousands of dollars per year, the tax benefit might not equate to that in terms of married filing jointly. So again, I think that your question, it does, Blake, it does have legs. And there are scenarios where it does make sense to actually not file jointly with your spouse, especially if you’re looking at PSLF. And it kind of just depends on some of the income and the underlying numbers with the loans themselves. Alright, Tim, last question here is question No. 10. This is from Joshua. So Joshua says, “I’m on course to pay off student loans in a relatively short period of time. I noticed that refinancing my federal loans to a private lender would decrease my interest rate, as expected. But because I’m set to pay off the loans in a small period of time, the amount saved in interest is relatively small for a pharmacist’s salary. Would it be wise to stick with the federal loans with the option of utilizing a graduated repayment option to keep my minimum payment low in case something unexpected happens that doesn’t get paid for by insurance, like having a baby, etc.?”

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, this is a great question, Josh. And Tim Baker, I don’t know your thoughts on this, but I have a feeling we’re going to get more of this question as we see the interest rate market rise. You know, I think a year ago, we had our student loans that were hovering around, what, 6-7% fixed rate? And some of our listeners were getting refinance rates in the 3-4% and obviously some a little bit higher depending on your credit and all those types of factors, debt-to-income ratio, etc. But I think as we see the interest rate market rise, then obviously we’re going to see refinance offers become maybe still attractive but not as attractive. Would you agree with that?

Tim Baker: Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the interest rates on here are a huge thing that’s hanging out there. I think it will always be competitive in the five-year or the seven-year, but if you’re doing like a 10-year and you’re at 6%, I think eventually that market will dry up.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, I mean, obviously when you’re talking about potentially refinancing $150,000-160,000 and you look at 1-2% interest rate change, that can be huge, you know.

Tim Baker: Yes.

Tim Ulbrich: And we’ve done the math before on some fairly conservative numbers, and we estimate that somebody who has the average indebtedness can definitely save around $25,000-30,000 in refinance, depending on your individual situation. So and I like the way Josh asked this question because I can tell he already did the math. And that was the first suggestion I would have for our listeners is go to YourFinancialPharmacist.com/refinance, shoutout to Tim Church, who worked hard to build out a refi calculator, so you can look exactly to see as you get quotes from different lenders exactly what is the difference? How much are you going to save? Is it worth it? And based on those savings, you can then make the decision — or projected savings — you can make the decision to switch or not. Now, I must clarify, any time we talk about refinance, you know, regardless of what the math says, if anybody’s pursuing loan forgiveness, obviously refinance should be off the table because once you refinance, you’re taking yourself out of the federal system into the private system. You’re then making yourself ineligible for a refinance — or for forgiveness, excuse me. So for those who are not pursuing forgiveness who are then doing the math on a refinance, now the question becomes what am I giving up by getting out of the federal system? And how much am I saving? And is it worth whatever I am giving up? And you’ve talked about before several times on this show that 10 years ago or so, there was some vast difference between the benefits of the federal program and the private system. And those really have gone away because as you’ve made the point, when you have such a lucrative market, those private companies have to be competitive against whatever the federal system is offering. And so I think as we now look at some of these major lenders that we have, obviously pumped on our page as well, SoFi and LendKey and Common Bond, etc., you know, they really are becoming apples to apples with the federal system, with of course the exception of the forgiveness clauses. Now, there’s a couple lenders that are still out there that do not offer a discharge on death and disability, so of course you need to look at that as a factor. And if you’re going to get a much better rate from them, you have to weigh that against the risk that you’re taking on there. But for me, it’s starting with doing the math, seeing what the savings are, and then making the decision as to whether or not you’re going to switch. And again, YourFinancialPharmacist.com/refinance, we’ll give you the information to get started. The other thing I want to add here, which is the second part of Josh’s question, is would I just be better off with a smaller minimum payment in an extended or graduated plan in case something unexpected comes up? Now, I think this goes all the way back to budgeting and financial planning and really trying to get a feel for what are you locking yourself into month-to-month. And the thing I would say here to Josh is don’t forget that you can refinance more than once. So if you’re looking at your monthly budget, and you’re saying, “Oh, I’d be really squeezed by a five-year refinance, but I feel really comfortable about a 10-year, and then I’ll reassess in 12 months or 18 months or whatever,” you can always refinance into a 10-year, and then you could reevaluate that into the future. Or you choose a lender that allows you just to make those extra payments, right? Which are all of the ones that we have listed on our website. So don’t feel like you’re locked out of that because of a refinance. You could choose a longer term period and then you could obviously make extra payments or you could reassess and re-refinance at a later point in time. Alright, Tim Baker, good stuff. This was fun to take on these 10 questions. I think we’ll be doing more of this. So again, as a reminder to our listeners, if you have a question that you would like featured on the show, shoot us an email at [email protected] or jump onto the YFP Facebook group if you’re not already there, join the 1,700 other pharmacy professionals, great conversation, great community, and certainly you ask a question, you’re going to get a lot of good feedback in addition to Tim and I — Tim, Tim and I jumping in as well. As we wrap up another episode of the podcast, I want to again take a moment to thank our sponsor of today’s show, CommonBond. CommonBond is a on a mission to provide a more transparent simple and affordable way to manage higher education expenses. There approach is no big secret…lower rates, simpler options and a world class experience…all built to support you throughout your student loan journey. Since its founding, CommonBond has funded over $2 billion in student loans and is the only student loan company to offer a true one-for-one social promise. So for every loan CommonBond funds, they also fund the education of a child in the developing world through its partnership with Pencils of Promise.Right now, as a member of the YFP community you can get $500 cash when you refinance through the link YourFinancialPharmacist.com/commonbond. Again, that’s YourFinancialPharmacist.com/commonbond. And one last thing if you could do us a favor, if you like what you heard on this week’s episode, please make sure to subscribe in iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to head on over to YourFinancialPharmacist.com, where you will find a wide array of resources designed specifically for you, the pharmacy professional, to help you on the path towards achieving financial freedom. Have a great rest of your week!

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