home buying lessons

YFP 316: Real Tips From Recent First-Time Home Buyers

Posted on by Tim U

Neal and Kaitie Fox join Nate Hedrick, The Real Estate RPh, to reflect on the lessons learned as first-time homebuyers.

About Today’s Guest

Neal and Kaitie travelled from their hometown of Coshocton, OH to attend Cedarville University in 2011. A year later they married at age 19 and began their joint financial adventure. Kaitie began working at the University food service contractor and eventually became the Head Baker, supporting the family through pharmacy school and until the birth of their second son. Now, Kaitie is home raising Timothy, 5, and David, 1, while Neal works. Neal completed his PharmD at Cedarville and a PGY1 residency at Premier Health Miami Valley Hospital, a Level 1 Trauma Center with over 950 licensed beds and over 110 adult ICU beds. He currently serves as one of the Medical ICU Clinical Pharmacy Specialists and the Research Project Coordinator for the PGY1 pharmacy residency program. He occasionally gives lectures or hands-on training at Cedarville University while also taking APPE students from several pharmacy schools throughout the year.

Episode Summary

Buying a home can be a daunting, exciting, and overwhelming experience. On this weeks podcast, sponsored by Real Estate RPh, we are joined by Neal and Kaitie Fox to discuss how they went about buying their first home. Neal is a pharmacist and Kaitie is a stay-at-home mom, and in this episode, they tell us what made them decide to buy a house when they did, what they would say to someone wanting to purchase their first home, and how interest rates and other aspects played a role in their decision. They delve into how they chose a financial lender and why they decided to change who they financed their house with at the last minute before explaining how YFP assisted them in this process. When looking for a real estate agent, it is important that you find someone who takes your needs into consideration and communicates effectively, and Neal and Kaitie explain why they decided to change agents early on in their journey. Finally, our guests remind us to use our resources wisely and ask as many questions as possible when buying a home.

Key Points From the Episode

Introducing today’s guests, Kaitie and Neal Fox, and a brief overview of their careers.
What made Neal and Kaitie decide to buy a home when they did.
Their advice on a starting point for someone wanting to buy a home in the near future.
Why interest rates were a barrier for them when buying their first home.
Things to consider when choosing an area to look for a house in.
The importance of moving fast when you find a house you’re interested in.
How Kaitie and Neal navigated financing a house and what that process looked like for them.
Their home-buying team, changing agents, and why YFP was so helpful to the Fox family.
The importance of having clear and responsive communication with your real estate agent.
Why you must utilize your resources and ask questions when closing on a house.

Episode Highlights

“The biggest thing is to find that person who is your trusted expert in home buying.” — @ThePharmFox [0:05:10]

“Have at least two, maybe even three [financing] options because as long as your pre-approval is still valid, you should be able to pick the best option that fits you.” — @ThePharmFox [0:16:44]

“Utilize those resources that are right there [and] are helping you through the process anyway.” — @fox_kaitie [0:29:06]

“Expect the unexpected because it is a very long, complicated process and you will almost certainly run into something that you didn’t think about before.” — @ThePharmFox [0:33:51]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00.4] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrick here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. Today, I pass the mic over to Nate Hedrick, founder of Real Estate RPH and cohost of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, where he welcomes Kaitie and Neal Fox to talk about their journey as recent first-time home buyers. They discussed the lessons learned along the journey, including common pitfalls to avoid that will be helpful to anyone that is looking to buy a home for the first time. So let’s hear it from today’s sponsor, Real Estate RPH, and then we’ll jump into Nate’s interview with Kaitie and Neal Fox.

[SPONSOR MESSAGE]

[0:00:39.2] TU: Are you planning to buy a home in the next year or two? With the state of current home prices and mortgage rates, the home-buying process can feel overwhelming but what if you can leverage the knowledge and ongoing support of someone who has worked with dozens of other pharmacists through their home-buying journey, all at no cost to you? I’m talking about Nate Hedrick at the Real Estate RPH. Nate is a pharmacist who has been a partner of YFP for many years now and offers a home-buying concierge service that can help you find a high-quality agent in your area and support you throughout the entire process. So head on over to realestaterph.com or click on the link in the show notes to schedule your free 30-minute jumpstart planning session with Nate.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:01:26.1] NH: Hey, Neal, Kaitie, welcome to the show.

[0:01:28.1] KF: Hi, thank you.

[0:01:29.2] NF: Yeah, thanks for having us.

[0:01:30.4] NH: Yeah, absolutely. I knew when we had first talked that you guys are going to be fun to work with and I’m excited we get the opportunity to talk all about home buying today with a couple of recent home buyers, it’s going to be great. So maybe for our audience, just kind of give us a brief introduction on yourselves and a little bit about your pharmacy career and we’ll take it from there.

[0:01:49.7] NF: Yeah, sure. So I’m Neal Fox, I am a 2018 graduate of Cedarville University. I practice as a clinical pharmacy specialist in the medical ICU at a large level-one trauma center in Dayton, Ohio with just over 900 licensed beds and just over 110 adult ICU beds.

[0:02:15.5] KF: I’m Kaitie, I’m Neal’s wife, and I am currently a stay-at-home mom with our two boys and I’d previously been a baker for about eight years.

[0:02:24.7] NH: And we got connected, gosh, it was back in late 2022, talking about you guys are ready to buy your first home and we wanted to help you with that and so you know, what we thought we do today is get together with you guys, talk a little bit about first time home buying with someone who has recently gone through it and you know, talk through any pitfalls or words of advice. Things you guys learned along the way because I think a lot of our audience is sitting out there looking at current market conditions, looking at the current financial situation, and saying, “I don’t know if I can do this” or “I’ve got questions but I don’t even know where to start” or, “I don’t even know enough to ask questions” right?” I think if we talked through a couple of things, talk through the process, it might help a lot of the audience out there that might be trying this for the first time. So if you’ll indulge me, I’ll be firing off the questions and you guys just give me your hot take on what it was like and we can learn from each other. So does that sound good?

[0:03:14.1] NF: Yeah.

[0:03:14.1] KF: Right, yeah.

[0:03:15.0] NF: No problem, happy to share.

[0:03:16.5] NH: Awesome. So I think, you know, one of the things we focus here a lot at YFP is kind of the “why” behind the financial decision and it could be putting money in your 401(k) or paying off your student loan or in this case, you know, buying a home. Did you have a particular “why” behind you know, buying a home like when you felt you were – you felt like you were ready to do that?

[0:03:34.3] KF: Frankly, at this point, we have outgrown our current living space. We’re currently renting a two-bedroom apartment and we have two young children and then ourselves and it’s getting very, very cramped very quickly.

[0:03:49.6] NF: Yeah, home ownership had always been an intermediate to long-term financial goal for us. We definitely were not in a position to do that coming right out of residency but over the last few years, we’ve been able with YFPs help a lot to get into a better position and now for us, the living situation, the space, you know, we’ve been room sharing with our 14-month-old for 14 months.

[0:04:16.4] KF: 14 months.

[0:04:17.8] NF: So we don’t really have anywhere else to put him. So the “why” for this year was kind of that, like we didn’t feel like we had the option to wait much. So in some ways, that made it easier because we had the resolve to get it done, to go all the way through the process.

[0:04:33.4] NH: Yeah, I love that and I am sure there are many people resonating with that of like, “I am out of space” and sometimes it’s kids, sometimes it’s pets, sometimes you know, whatever it is, right? It’s time to make that move, so I think that totally resonates. What about you know the getting started process, right? So you have this “why” and you say, “Look, we’re out of space, we got to move, it’s time to buy” but how do you get started? Like, now that you’ve done this and kind of looking backward, you know, we talk about ways to get started all the time but for you guys, specifically, like what would you recommend as a decent starting point for somebody who is thinking about buying a home in the next, let’s say six months?

[0:05:07.7] NF:1 Yeah, for sure. So I think, the biggest thing is to find that person who is your trusted expert in home buying. So obviously, I’m not that person, that’s not what I went to school for and if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re probably not that person either, right? So you know, what I’ve always said, what we’ve always said working with YFP is they’re like our money mechanics. So in the same way, that I go to a mechanic for my car because I know nothing about my car, because again, that’s not what I went to school for, I need a trusted person, a trusted expert who can tell me what’s wrong, explain it to me in simple terms and then help me make a decision very similar to how they teach healthcare professionals that you know, we need to explain things in patient-friendly language. You know, I need that same person when it comes to money, financial decisions and that’s what YFP is for us, and then home buying is another like sub-specialty within that. So that’s why we immediately went through YFP to find a point of contact, which started with you, Nate, to guide us through the first part of that process.

[0:06:21.9] NH: Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense and again, we’re biased here, right? At YFP because we like what we offer but I think you’re totally right, you don’t know where to start, getting a great expert on your team is a great place to start, you know? We’ll talk about this more in detail but we use the home-buying concierge services with you guys, getting you connected with a great real estate agent and then getting off and running. We even had a couple of bumps at the beginning, which I think I like to talk about here in a bit but you know, having that point of contact is how you get passed those bumps. I think that will resonate really well. So I appreciate you sharing that.

[0:06:49.9] NF: It was a really good way for us to initiate a process that we felt like we had studied and talked about but didn’t really know what to do and had never been through before.

[0:07:02.8] KF: Right.

[0:07:03.3] NH: Makes a lot of sense, I like that. One of the things that I think people are talking about right now that I think is kind of scary, especially when you’re thinking about getting started is that “current market” right? High-interest rates, lower inventory, do you feel like those were a factor, a barrier to you guys buying your first home?

[0:07:18.8] KF: To some degree, especially the higher interest rates right now because you know, we had this idea of you know, we have this wide range that we are able to buy from and so then looking at our interest rate and talking to our realtor, we were able to decide like, “Okay, we need to look at this you know, lower end spectrum” to say, “You know, we’re comfortable with this monthly payment” because of the interest rates. I feel like we didn’t really run into like low inventory in our area. I mean, hundreds of houses that were for sale but again, it was making sure that they were within our budget, that we had kind of decided on, that we were comfortable with paying like every month.

[0:08:01.4] NF: Yeah, and we’ll talk about this more in a moment but there was definitely, Kaitie was doing more of the house watching and there was a decent amount of turnover even though there were constantly houses up, they weren’t staying on the market in general for very long and what we realize, so what Kaitie was alluding to is we kind of had a number for total purchase price that we thought we would be able to get to. And then we realized that it was less about total purchase price and more about what our monthly payment would be because you know, we’ve worked with YFP for years on thinking about like a zero-based budget and you know, you can have whatever purchase price you want but if that monthly payment doesn’t fit within what you can reasonably do and right now, we’re a one-income household, you know, that was the number that we needed to focus on more.

So once we realized that, the thing about the market in our area that I came to realize was that it’s not homogenous, that different neighborhoods, even different sides of the same highway, obviously different school districts and things like that, there is a wide variety in terms of what you were going to see in price per square foot and stuff like that and thinking about us, for our family, you know we’re thinking about possibly private school for the kids. So public school district wasn’t as important in considering these things, we actually shifted our focus to a different area within our geographic region that’s really only like, five minutes away or so from – at least, in terms of distance – from my work from where we are now and where we had been looking and that made a big difference in terms of the length of time that houses were staying on the market and their cost per size.

[0:09:48.8] NH: It totally shows how local real estate is, right? It can be different 20 minutes away, 10 minutes away sometimes. Just like you said, you know if you shift that locust of search from a five-minute geographic area to a different five-minute geographic area, you’re going to get totally different results. So that’s good to hear that you know, I think you guys went into it with the right mindset but were able to shift as you started to learn more and see what made sense in terms of the areas you were looking in and the numbers and ultimately, that monthly payment is what made that determination, so that’s cool. Did you lose out on any houses? I know you said that the inventory was turning over quickly, did you lose out on any houses or anything? I mean, I know a lot of people are struggling with that right now.

[0:10:26.8] KF: The first couple of houses that we looked at were super early in our process. We kind of went into them thinking you know, we probably aren’t going to put an offer on these but we want to get the feel for actually physically going with our agent to a house and looking at it and seeing what that feels like but I think both of those houses went off the market that night. Like, the night that we looked at them, they went off the market.

[0:10:49.2] NF: And both of them, we went there and either someone was already showing when we got there or someone showed up to show before we left. So that was in the initial “hotter market” near our geographic area but even though we weren’t planning necessarily to make an offer that early in the process, it did give me some trepidation. This feeling like, “Oh man, when we find the right house, we have to move really, really fast or we’re going to lose out on it.” You know, that’s how it made me feel, that was my initial impression to the market, these houses just gone.

[0:11:29.1] NH: I think a lot of people feel that way and it can feel more overwhelming, especially if you’re like, looking at a house and someone shows up and you know, waiting for you to leave so they can go look at it. That feeling is like, I’m with you. I totally get it.

[0:11:39.2] KF: It was a little scary there first, you know, not knowing if we were going to be able to get the house that we wanted.

[0:11:44.5] NH: But I like your approach of you know, even though we’re not maybe a hundred percent ready or these aren’t houses that we’re a hundred percent certain on. It’s nice to go through the process, walk through the steps, and understand that, what that looks like so that when you were ready, when that house did pop up and come along, you can make the action point very quickly. So I think that was a smart move, that makes a lot of sense. You know, so talking about looking at houses then the big thing that I think people run into at that point too is, “Okay, well now, I’m ready to look at homes, I figured out my budget, you know, all these pieces are in place but what about financing?” I think that paying for a new house is a pretty overwhelming part of the process. How did you navigate that I guess and what did that look like for you guys?

[0:12:20.1] NH: So through our local realtor contact, we first were talking to her about – we had talked with YFP over the years about the different options available to healthcare professionals like pharmacists, you know the “physician style loans” or healthcare professional loans, whatever and particular institution chooses to call them and we’d said, “Hey, you know, this is something we’re interested in because we’re pretty sure we qualify and do you know anyone who does this?” and she got a contact that she was pretty sure did. So that was the first bank loan officer that we talked to and separately, through YFP, we had a resource that let us look by our state and my degree, which is pharmacy, PharmD, and see what banks have the pharmacist included in their physician-style loan programs. So we kind of had that list and then we had this contact and we worked through the process of pre-approval and kind of talking about some of the things and we actually found out that that bank didn’t routinely include pharmacists. The loan officer was super great, she felt like she could get us an exception and essentially get us one of those style loans, and then the week that we went to get that pre-approval all the way through, get that loan kind of nailed down was the week that there was some kind of like banking crisis, some bank in California.

[0:13:53.0] NF: Collapsed?

[0:13:53.4] NH: Collapsed. Yeah.

[0:13:54.4] NF: Something like that.

[0:13:55.6] NH: I remember.

[0:13:57.1] NF: And so that bank institutions were not doing any exceptions right now.

[0:13:59.7] KF: Yeah, they completely locked on exceptions for all of their loans.

[0:14:02.4] NF: So she put together the best custom loan that she could do for us and we went ahead and got that pre-approval but even she said like, “You should talk to another lender and see what they can offer you.” So then we went back to that list that we had through the resource from YFP and talked to one of those lenders and they, who did explicitly include pharmacists in their healthcare professional loan program and we went through the process with them as well of getting pre-approved. Now, their pre-approval was a little more vague in terms of what the interest rate would be in things. It was a lot of like, “You’re pre-approved but you won’t know any details until you give us like a purchase price and a date” kind of thing.

[0:14:49.3] KF: Yeah.

[0:14:53.1] NF: So we actually ended up going all the way through the process, getting to the point of making an offer, starting off with bank B, and then when we got the final numbers, it was not good.

[0:15:04.3] KF: They were terrible.

[0:15:05.6] NF: They were not good compared to bank A, and so we ended up switching lenders in that final week of between putting in the offer and having the offer accepted. We ended up switching lenders because everything across the board between the two offers was better for bank A, even though it didn’t end up being explicitly like a physician-style loan program. So that was surprising to me, it definitely wasn’t something I was expecting. I also didn’t fully realize before the process that pre-approvals only last for a certain period of time and because they’re a hard check on your credit, you obviously don’t want to go and get pre-approved at like 10 different places. It was definitely a process but we started with our local realtor to get someone that she was familiar with and had worked with before and that’s ultimately where we ended up back and so that ultimately was a good experience but there was definitely some angst. Once we started getting –

[0:16:06.4] KF: To put it lightly.

[0:16:08.0] NF: Once you started getting those final numbers from the second place that on paper, should have been better.

[0:16:13.4] KF: Better for us.

[0:16:14.1] NF: But again, we’re really focusing on like, “What is that monthly payment going to be?” Of course, we were talking about like PMI, we were going to like have to have PMI with the second place and I don’t really know why. One of the big distinctions with those healthcare professional loans is the amount that you need to put down in a down payment and we’re going to have to put down a lot more for Bank B. So like all of these things, again, just everything across the board ended up being better for Bank A. So I’m so glad that we talked to them first and had the option. That’s the bottom line is have at least two, maybe even three options because as long as your pre-approval is still valid, you should be able to pick the best option that fits you.

[0:16:56.0] NH: So many good nuggets in there and I want to make sure we highlight a few because I think you guys hit the nail on the head on all that stuff, right? So point one that I want to highlight is shop the lender, right? Talk to multiple lenders, don’t just buy into one person and lock into it. I am notorious for this. I will like, convince myself that once I’ve had a decision that like, I’m just going to stick with it because I’ve already made a decision, and even if it’s the bad one, I don’t care like I’m in, right? Don’t be me on that, right? Shop lenders upfront, that’s super smart.

Then, what I loved too is that you mentioned about changing the lenders along the way. So many people don’t realize you can do that, right? Even when you’ve put an offer in already, with the pre-approval letter, you can go back and get a different lender after the fact, right? You can’t be a week away from closing and change lenders but if it’s still early enough in that process even after the contract’s been accepted, you can change lenders. So definitely approach it for you guys on that and then the other thing you mentioned too was the hard credit checks. I advise my clients, any time they’re shopping around, try to do all of your pre-approval shopping within a two-week period that will ensure you only get one credit check. It will basically you know, trunk it down to one credit check across all those lenders, and then if you have to re-up your letter in three months, you know, you can do that for another poll but at least it won’t hurt your credit nearly as much.

So really, really good stuff you guys mentioned in there, I love that.

[0:18:10.4] NF: Well good, because we learned it by doing it.

[0:18:12.7] KF: As we were doing it.

[0:18:14.5] NH: It wasn’t that we knew it going in, which again is the point of this conversation.

[0:18:18.6] NF: Yeah, that’s exactly why I wanted to talk about this stuff because it’s those things that you don’t even know to ask those questions until you’re in the middle of it and then you learn it, you’re like, “Oh, wish I would have known this.” So yeah, I’m glad we’re covering this. Talking a little about the lender piece, you’ve mentioned your real estate agent a few times. We talk a lot here at YFP about using a team, right? Especially when making a financial decision, especially in the world of pharmacy, you know just about everything can benefit from that team approach. Were there other people on your team or were there key pieces of your team that you felt like were essential that maybe we haven’t mentioned or anything you want to highlight within the team that we’ve already touched on?

[0:18:51.0] NF: When you think that you know, it started with our YFP financial planners and so we’ve worked with YFP for three and a half years about. We started early 2020, actually just pre-COVID, which was a really fun time.

[0:19:04.3] KF: Yeah.

[0:19:04.9] NF: To get started, we were actually a week away from refinancing our student loans when the lockdown hit and everything. So I mean, we were on the cusp. So all that to say just to give people some context, so we’ve had three different people that we’ve worked with as our one-on-one financial planner and we actually started with Tim Baker, which is a ton of money.

[0:19:25.7] KF: Yes, it was.

[0:19:26.6] NF: And so along the way with all three of them, we’ve talked about our goals and we’ve talked about home buying, so it always started there and we definitely went there first to get in contact with you. You got us in contact with our local real estate agent. Our local real estate agent got us in contact, like I said, with our loan officer. Those were really the main people. They kind of facilitated most of the communication with all of the other, to use medical lingo, all the other consultants, if you will. We did a little bit of emailing back and forth with like a title agent and some things like that but I don’t feel like I knew those other people the way that I feel like we knew and talked a lot with our loan officer and our realtor.

[0:20:14.4] KF: Yeah.

[0:20:15.0] NH: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I know we touched on this a couple of times but you know, you guys used the home-buying concierge service that we offer here at YFP, and for those who haven’t heard about it maybe, basically it’s a free service that we offer, not just to planning clients but to anybody who’s interested. You can go right to our website, yourfinancialpharmacist.com, and click on “buy a home” and right there, you can sign up for a call with me. A 30-minute phone call or less, we can talk about your goals, we can talk about what you want to achieve, kind of home you want to buy, and then we’ll get you connected with a great real estate agent and something we really like to be upfront on here, right? Is like it’s not always perfect, right? So we’re pretty good at what we do, matching people up with great agents but sometimes the communication isn’t there upfront. So when we connected with you guys with the first agent, somebody that we’ve actually used in the past for other clients and has been fantastic the communication just wasn’t there, right?

[0:21:05.2] KF: At very first, things were fine. You know, we email back and forth, we were trying to set up a date to have a not really face-to-face but –

[0:21:12.9] NF: A more in-depth.

[0:21:14.1] KF: Like a more in-depth –

[0:21:14.8] NF: First conversation.

[0:21:15.6] KF: Conversation to get to know each other a little bit and what we’re kind of looking for and I had told her, “You know, we’re free at these three or four days the following week” and I never heard back from her and two weeks go by and I still haven’t heard back from her. I’ve reached out a couple of other times and so then we reach back out to you, Nate, and we’re like, “We don’t know what’s going on. We hope she’s okay but she’s not responding to anything. So what do we do?” and you were like, “You know, I’ll reach out to her, see if we can get you guys back in contact. If not, let me know and we’ll move on from here.” I was like, “Okay, great” and then we still didn’t hear from her.

So then you got us in contact like the very next week with our current real estate agent and she has been absolutely amazing. You know, she’s been very responsive, she’s been easy to communicate with, almost overly so. You know, there have been a couple of times that she’ll email us back and you know, “As soon as I get back from the gym, I’ll call you and do this, this, and this” and like, “Wow, you do not have to email me while you were working out but okay, thank you.”

[0:22:26.2] NH: Yeah, that’s good and it just shows that like you know, real estate is like any other business, right? There are good people and bad people within every business and there are good times and bad times for those same people, right? These are agents that we’ve worked with in the past and it just maybe there is something going on with their life that doesn’t work and this isn’t the right time for that connection to take place. So one of the things we really try to focus on with the concierge service is not just giving you an agent and walking away but being part of that team, right? YFP stays a part of your team the whole way so that if you do have that, we can come back, get you reconnected, and get you on the right path.

So again, I like to be really transparent with these conversations and tell people exactly what it’s like because it’s not as easy as picking up the phone, calling the first agent with the most highest reviews and then you get off and run, right? It doesn’t always work out that way, so I’m glad we get to share that story a little bit and it sounds like once you guys got off and actually looking at houses, it was the right fit and you guys were able to close, right?

[0:23:20.5] KF: Yeah.

[0:23:20.8] NF: Yeah, absolutely. Everything went well from there and honestly, like probably would have been fine because we were starting very early in the process but just again, with so much uncertainty and ignorance, for lack of a better term, on our part we wanted to start really early because we didn’t actually even know if that was early. We thought maybe six, seven months from our target buy date might have been late. We didn’t know and so that’s why we were really keen to start having conversations with someone and so that’s why we’re willing to go ahead and make a connection with someone who’s going to be able to interact and respond to us right then. So it was really nice, like you said, to have that lifeline of being able to come back to you, Nate, and say, “Hey, is there another direction we can go?”

[0:24:09.3] KF: Yeah.

[0:24:09.7] NH: Happy to do it. I mean, now that you’ve worked with an agent and again, gotten to the closing process. Are there tips you have for people out there that might be vetting their own agents or maybe not using our concierge service, like things that you think are super important to have as part of – as a good real estate agent?

[0:24:24.0] KF: I mean, I think we already said it a couple of times but I mean, being able to have clear and responsive communication.

[0:24:31.3] NF: Yeah, reasonably responsive, you know? I don’t need my realtor text if I send an email at midnight because I’m up just worried and thinking about something, I don’t need you to respond at 1:00 in the morning that kind of thing but you know accessible was certainly a thing, especially because there were times, there were parts of the process that we were working through on weekends, in the evenings. That week of like putting in the offer and getting the offer accepted was a very hectic four to six days and it felt like we were emailing and communicating and doing stuff –

[0:25:08.6] KF: Phone calls, texting.

[0:25:09.5] NF: Finding any paperwork, getting the paperwork signed.

[0:25:11.8] KF: Scanning stuff.

[0:25:12.7] NF: Doing all of this stuff nonstop for that whole week.

[0:25:16.4] KF: For that six days, yeah.

[0:25:18.0] NF: So you know, that’s important but I’d say the other piece and you can speak to part of this honey, is like having an agent who’s really listening to what it is that you’re looking for in a home not just in terms of price and that’s the piece you can speak to but also you know, if you’re saying or you’re finding, that was something we found things that were important to us that we didn’t realize were important to us once we started looking at homes and actually picturing our self living there with our family. You know, so the simple example for us is like we really wanted a fenced-in backyard, you know, just the idea of like being able to tell the boys, “Okay, go outside and play” and not have to worry about wildlife or somebody’s dog or whatever, you know?

As I started looking at different houses, some that had it and some that didn’t, I found that that was important to me and we were able to communicate to our realtor that. And then when you see that they’re responsive and they start then bringing you homes that match what it is that you’re saying that you want and what you’re finding that you want, I think that is really key. You know, if you are working with someone and they’re continually bringing things to you that are outside of your price range or not matching what you say you’re looking for, then that person for whatever reason may not be the right agent for you to find your home because it’s about you finding your home.

[0:26:48.7] KF: Right. Our agent said that to us a couple of times. She goes, “Well, this is not my home. So you know, if you like this that’s great.” That was really fun to hear her say that. What Neal was eluding to earlier was when we had initially talked to her, we had this really broad price range that we were looking at and you know she’s like, “All right” so she put it into her system and was able to email me houses to look at. Once we got closer and we were seeing, “Okay, these houses are probably way out of our comfortable price range” I emailed her and I said, “Hey, let’s change that filter to this price range” and she did it that day and I never received a house after that that was over that price range. So that was really, really nice to see her be responsive in that way, especially that quickly.

[0:27:39.3] NH: That’s great, I love it. I appreciate you guys giving that synopsis because I think those are all super important pieces and things that, like you said really well, it’s the things you don’t realize until after you’ve gone halfway down the process, you’re like, “Oh man, this is important and I didn’t know it’s important.” So that’s really key. So I want to go back really quickly to one other thing you mentioned about that crazy six days that you mentioned, right? So after the sort of like place is under contract, now what? Anything really stick out in there, things like tips you would give to people? I know it’s a ton of hurry up and wait and 30 people are emailing you that you don’t know any of them and they all need documents from you, right? I always know that process is hectic. Any tips or words of advice you can give to our audience that like, “Hey, do this upfront so that the six days aren’t as crazy.”

[0:28:23.8] KF: Well, it’s something that we did really early on in the process with our agent before we had even looked at a house at all was ask her for all the papers that we’d be seeing at closing. So she emailed us all the blank documents, we were able to read through those. We were kind of half-familiar with them by the time we were actually signing them so that we weren’t totally drowning in all that information all at once. So that was something really good that we were able to do but then I feel like something else that we were able to do was utilize our real estate agent and say, “Okay, what does this mean? Why are we doing this? You know, is this reasonable to ask the buyers for this or the sellers for this?” or whatever. Just utilize those resources that are right there that are helping you through the process anyway.

[0:29:11.2] NF: Yeah, I’d say, you know, it’s really easy to get overwhelmed and one thing that you definitely should do is actually sit down ideally together if you’re a couple and read the documents that you’re about to sign because sometimes, there might be things in there that you don’t either understand or didn’t expect. You know, if they say that they’re taking all the appliances out of the house and you didn’t know that –

[0:29:36.3] KF: That’s a big deal.

[0:29:37.6] NF: You need to know that. So that’s like a really simple thing, it’s very easy to skip over that and there were a couple of times where we were like, “Wait a minute, why is this number this? Shouldn’t it be different?” you know, we add a lot of communication about that. I didn’t realize our final closing cost changed multiple times because it’s like a projection and it had things in the projection and then they took them out and then they put them back in.

[0:30:03.7] KF: We thought they were a different price when they put them back in.

[0:30:05.6] NF: And we actually ended up scheduling our wire transfer for amount X and then it changed like 48 hours later and we had to call the bank and change the wire amount again, change it, and that was a little stressful, you know? Because we’re talking about a lot of money so you really don’t want to mess it up.

[0:30:22.5] KF: Right, that is where our loan officer came in. You know, I talked to her three or four times on the phone a week of closing and she was very, very good about walking me through like, “Okay, this is what’s happening right now, this is why the amount says this. This is what it should be closer to actual closing” and again, communicating with her and having her be accessible as well was really good for us not to get lost in the process.

[0:30:50.5] NF: Yeah, if you see something weird or you have a question, you should ask. If you don’t feel comfortable asking, you should take a big step back if that’s a big red flag. It is too big of a decision to go into it not knowing and understanding a lot of it. Now, that being said, I felt like when we actually finally signed our documents electronically, there was like a whole set. I mean, we did a physical signing part too, that was fine.

[0:31:16.4] KF: That was it.

[0:31:16.8] NF: There was like this whole section that was basically like, what is a home loan for dummies, and all this terminology. I was like, “Why isn’t this the first thing they send you?”

[0:31:26.7] KF: Yeah, why isn’t this the first thing that you read?

[0:31:28.6] NF: Somebody take these last 20 pages and just send it to me at the beginning and that would have made things a lot easier but overall, you know because we felt very comfortable asking questions and we just did, we just asked questions all the time.

[0:31:42.0] KF: I sent so many emails and so many text messages.

[0:31:45.2] NF: That helped. I mean, being organized, you know we had a lot of our documents saved like in a folder on the computer for like home purchase documents. That made it really because you’re going to have to upload a million things. Even something as simple as if you have the ability to scan documents, if you are printing them manually, signing them, or you have the ability to sign things electronically, you will make that process go a lot faster. If you have you know, a touch screen device and a PDF editor that you can sign right there, you know, like that is so much faster than printing and signing and going to the library and faxing it to yourself, so whatever.

[0:32:23.2] KF: Yeah, you know whatever you have to do.

[0:32:25.1] NF: You know, whatever you have to do to get all that paperwork done, it’s quite a process. Yeah, so it was fun for lack of a better word and we got all the way to the physical signing and it really was what everybody tells you like you’re going to sit there for an hour and a half and sign documents and get a cramp in your hand. Something that was interesting like we never ever saw our sellers. Like they had done everything ahead of time and just have like their representatives there.

[0:32:49.8] KF: Yeah, they’d pre-signed.

[0:32:51.4] NF: Kind of wasn’t expecting that but it did made a difference. There was even like a little hiccup at our closing, where the title company wasn’t sure that we had actually given them earnest money and we had and so then there’s –

[0:33:04.9] KF: Well and our loan officer was at our closing and she was like, “We definitely have this on file, we sent this to you.”

[0:33:10.7] NF: You know, so and if the title company, you know they have just like someone that they’ve hired, a third party like be there to do all that process so –

[0:33:18.8] KF: She has no idea, she doesn’t know us at all. She doesn’t know anything.

[0:33:21.9] NF: Yeah, she just has a file that’s like four inches thick with all of their documents and these notes in it, so then she’s talking to the title company people and they’re talking to the realtor and you know –

[0:33:34.5] KF: And they’re talking to the bank and we’re just sitting there like, “Okay, better run snacks to the boys.”

[0:33:40.4] NF: It all worked out but all that to say, I think that’s to say you know, do as many preparations as you can but don’t be surprised when –

[0:33:48.5] KF: Surprises come up.

[0:33:50.2] NF: Unexpected that you know, expect the unexpected because it is a very long complicated process and you will almost certainly run into something that you didn’t think about before or you haven’t heard that term or whatever.

[0:34:04.5] KF: Yeah.

[0:34:04.9] NH: Well, I really like the expectation setting, right? Like this is going to be a little crazy, be prepared for that and all the other prep work, the tips that you guys gave and I think creating a file in your computer that’s a great one. Being able to save documents because you might have to send them multiple times, referencing them, right? In case you did send the earnest money, you’ve got a document that says, “Hey, look, this is here” just in case someone else didn’t have access to that. So again, really great tips and it’s very clear that you guys have been through the process because I’m thinking about all these pieces like, “Oh yeah, I remember that. Oh yeah, that’s a problem. Oh yeah, I see my clients running into that.” So you guys are not alone and again, it’s nice to hear hopefully for some of our audience just how overwhelming it can seem but how you can make it through with a little bit of prep work and access to good resources.

So I really appreciate you guys hearing your story today, giving some first-time homebuyers out there some confidence that they can make it through and get to where you guys are now and again, just congrats on the new home, and seriously, thank you for sharing your story. It’s been awesome.

[0:35:01.6] KF: Yeah, thank you for having us.

[0:35:02.2] NF: Hey, thanks for having us.

[0:35:03.2] NH: Yeah, take care guys.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:35:04.3] TU: Nate and I have covered a ton of information in this podcast. So imagine working with Nate one-on-one through your home-buying journey and having his support to give you much-needed peace of mind. We know many pharmacists want to feel confident about big financial decisions including a home purchase. So if you have fears of being house forked, concerns about the impact a home purchase might have on your other financial goals, Nate and his home-buying concierge service can help all at no cost to you. You can visit realestaterph.com or click on the link in the show notes to schedule your free 30-minute jumpstart planning session with Nate.

[DISCLAIMER]

[0:35:43.6] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information on the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post, and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 066: 10 Home Buying Lessons Learned

Posted on by yfpadmin

10 Home Buying Lessons Learned

On Episode 066 of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, Tim Ulbrich, Founder of Your Financial Pharmacist, talks through 10 home buying lessons that he learned over the past few months as his family makes the move from Northeast Ohio to Columbus. He shares the good, the bad, and the ugly and hopes these lessons learned will help you in your home buying journey.

Summary of Episode

Tim Ulbrich shares the top ten home buying lessons he’s learned.

DIY route
Read, re-read and understand the fine print
Set your own budget
Ask lots of questions
Put 20% down
Shop around
Consider the total cost of buying a home by including all of the fees
Long-term hidden costs can make a difference
Value of an emergency fund
Have a great team around you

Mentioned on the Show

CommonBond
YFP Episode 064: 6 Steps to Homebuying (Part 1)
YFP Episode 065: 6 Steps to Homebuying (Part 2)
Real Estate RPh
YFP Concierge Service w/ Nate Hedrick
YFP Facebook Group
Send in Questions for Real Estate Rapid Fire Q&A
Homebuying Quick Start Guide
Script Financial
Wyndam Capital Mortgage
Dave Ramsey
The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America’s Wealthy by Tom Stanley
New York Times Rent or Buy Calculator

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich: Welcome to Episode 066 of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. I’m excited to be here, and this week I’m flying solo, following up on the two-part episodes that we did in episodes 064 and 065 with Nate Hedrick, the Real Estate RPH. And he’s going to be coming back on next week in Episode 067. We’re going to be doing a rapid-fire Q&A all about home buying. So if you have questions related to home buying, make sure you get those questions answered and ask them. You can head on over to the Your Financial Pharmacist Facebook group or shoot us an email at [email protected], and we’d love to feature your question on the podcast next week in Episode 067.

So this week is all about lessons that my wife, Jess, and I have learned and in some cases, to be frank, mistakes that we’ve made during the home buying process. So we are in the thick of it right now, actually getting ready to move next weekend from northeast Ohio to Columbus, Ohio, so I’m in transition from my job at Northeast Ohio Medical University to Ohio State University. Go Buckeyes! Excited about the opportunities ahead and with this transition, of course, comes selling and buying a home. And so just a few weeks ago, when we were planning this episode, believe it or not, it started as five lessons learned. And it quickly grew to 10. And to be honest, it probably could be many more than that. But that’s just sometimes how it goes. And so this episode is about being transparent, it’s about being honest — I’m not going to hide anything from our listeners — and the reality is, even here, a topic that I feel like I know fairly well, I think this just shows that anything related to personal finance, we’re prone to making mistakes. There’s something to be learned in everything that we do. And obviously, I’m hopeful that these lessons can be passed on to you all in the community and can even help Jess and I as we go through this process again in the future.

So to be honest to the listeners, this process of home buying — and for those of you that have gone through it recently, you know that it can be exciting, it can be emotional, it can be stressful — all of which have a tendency to throw us off of our financial game. And I think when we’re talking about such a large purchase and a home buy, and obviously, the selling aspect of it as well, there’s lots of emotions that can be flying around, lots of excitement, lots of highs, lots of lows. And all of those I think are the more reason that we have to have our financial guard up when it comes to home buying and making sure we’re educated and ready to make the best decisions in this area.

And so a couple reminders that I have before we jump into some background about the move that Jess and I are going through and then I’ll jump into the 10 lessons learned. And if you listened to Episode 064 and 065, we reference that all of the month of September is about home buying. And so along with this month, we’ve developed a YFP first-time home buying quick start guide that you can download for free at YourFinancialPharmacist.com/homeguide. Again, that’s YourFinancialPharmacist.com/homeguide.

OK, so here’s the background. Jess and I have been living in northeast Ohio since 2009, actually neither of us are from this area. I grew up in Buffalo, New York — go Bills — and Jess grew up in the Toledo-Bowling Green area in Perrysburg she spent most of her life, and we’ve been in our current home in Rootstown, Ohio, for eight years. And we actually rented for one year prior to that, so we made the move directly after my year of residency. We came up to northeast Ohio, we’ve been here for nine years. Eight years, we’ve lived in our current home, and we had one year that we rented prior to doing that. Now, when we bought in 2010, we bought with an FHA loan — and you’ve heard us talk about that in episodes 064 and 065. And the main reason we did that is because we didn’t have 20% down for the home. And I’m going to talk about that as we do go through these 10 lessons that are learned. So we only put 3.5% down, which is standard with an FHA loan. At the time, we had lots of student loan debt, as you’ve heard me chronicle my journey before, had no significant emergency fund and had no clue, no idea of the process that’s involved. And ironically, as I look back on that, there was very little stress that was involved with that purchase when in fact, there probably should have been a lot of stress. Very little down, lots of student loan debt, no significant emergency fund, and having really no clue of what was going on and the papers that I was signing. Now, here we are in 2018, we’re moving to Columbus, exciting new job, going to be starting at Ohio State. I have no student loan debt, we’re able to put 20% down, we have a fully funded emergency fund, we’ve got a great retirement account and to start on that retirement. And I think we have a decent, solid understanding of the process. But to be honest, I’m finding it incredibly stressful. And I don’t know if that’s because I’m more aware of what’s going on, I’m more concerned about the places where things can go wrong, maybe I have a little bit of post-traumatic from 2010 and thinking of the things that I could have done better. Whatever the reality is, what I’m fearing right now in the moment as we’re about to close in the next week is I’m feeling a little bit stressed, a little bit anxious and obviously, there’s so many moving parts that go along with this process. And hopefully, we’re going to cover many of these in these lessons learned.

Now, the big difference here in 2018 is that we are both buying and selling. And obviously, all that comes with that and the timing of that can be incredibly stressful. So here’s the deal. At the end of the day, home buying, like any other part of your financial plan, it’s all about being intentional. Being prepared, putting it in the context of the rest of your financial plan, and giving yourself from grace when you make a mistake here or there, and learning from those mistakes and being willing to share those mistakes with others. The only difference here is this is arguably the largest purchase that you’re ever going to make.

And so here we go, 10 lessons that I’ve learned or maybe a better word here would be mistakes or maybe even things that have been reinforced for me as we went through the process back in 2010 and I’m reliving here in 2018.

No. 1, the DIY route, the Do It Yourself route, has saved us a lot of money. BUT, capital B-U-T, is that wow, it has been a lot of work and to be frank with you, I’m not sure if I would do it again. Now, what am I talking about, the DIY route? So No. 1 here, the DIY route has saved us a lot of money, but it’s been a lot of work, and I think it’s added a lot of stress along the way. So what I’m referring to is in terms of the DIY of the sale of our home. Now, the only reason we are doing a for-sale-by-owner is because we literally have somebody in our neighborhood that was interested in buying the home. And so long story short, a few months ago when we were just getting ready to think about putting our home up for sale, we have a Facebook community group that has a, somebody sent out a message and said, ‘Hey, we’ve got somebody in the neighborhood that’s been renting. They’re looking at buying. Is anybody looking at selling their home in the next year?’ Saw the message and said, ‘Well, in fact, we are.’ And so I reached out to them and said, ‘Hey, we’re looking at selling. If you’d love to see the home, we’d love to have you come over and check it out.’ They came over two days later, came back and saw the home another week later, and they said, ‘Hey, we want to buy the home.’ And so obviously at that point, I didn’t feel like we needed to have a realtor in the process to be giving up 6-7% of commissions on the home. And so ultimately, by not having a realtor in the process, that saved approximately $12,000-15,000 if we were to assume a 6-7% realtor fee on the sale price of the home, which is pretty standard. Now, that sounds great, $12,000-15,000, but as I’ve alluded to in the intro to this No. 1 DIY route saved us money, but is it’s been a lot of work, a lot of stress and a lot of ups and downs all the way. And so because we had a neighbor that was looking to buy it, it made sense, we didn’t have to go through the process. We have three young children, so going through that process of listing the home, showing the home, we’ve been through that before and we know how much work that could be. However, as I look back and as we work through the process of making sure the language in the purchase agreement or the contract was in line, looking and finding a title company that we felt comfortable with, being in constant communication between the parties, the different lending agencies, the title company, the sellers — or excuse me, the buyers that are looking at the home, you are that central glue to the process. And really, the thing that I think has got me the most is the uncertainty that can come with this process. And things have literally been in flux from the second we started working with these buyers. And nothing that necessarily is on their back, but they ended up switching lenders because they were having difficulties with one lender, which re-started the entire process, which meant that there was paperwork that had to get re-filed, and ultimately, we are now running up against potentially not having our closing dates align — fingers crossed we’ll hopefully figure that out tomorrow if that’s going to happen. And ultimately, we are so far along the process with them and we have been along the way, and it’s a great opportunity to have them involved so early, but where ultimately it’s at some regards at the whim of what’s going on in their situation, and so that can make things quite different. And now I will say if I did not feel comfortable with working a title company that we had a good connection with, being able to reach out to the Real Estate RPH, Nate Hedrick, with a question here or there, working with my financial planner and YFP team member Tim Baker, obviously all those really help support me along the way. But I think that as I look back on this journey, I’m not sure that I would do it again, although ultimately, it did save us money in the process, so what’s the lesson learned to be here? If you are somebody that is selling your home and you’re looking at the DIY route, make sure that you feel comfortable and understand all the pieces and parts of the process and not just look at what am I going to save by not having a realtor fee, but do you feel comfortable with everything that’s behind you and how might that also impact you on the buying side of things? So that’s lesson learned No. 1.

Lesson learned No. 2 is the importance of reading, re-reading and understanding the fine print. Now, this sounds like common sense, and you’re probably thinking, Tim, come on. You do this all the time, how do you not read the fine print? Now, it’s not that I didn’t read the fine print, I’m actually quite obsessive about reading the fine print. But it’s making sure that you don’t assume things along the way in the fine print and you re-read the fine print. And obviously when you’re going through this process, you’re excited about buying a home, you’re excited about selling a home, you want things to naturally work out, so you have an optimistic lens in which you’re reading things. And so I think that tendency there, at least it was for me, is to not really read to the detail and understand to the detail that you’re asking the tough, probing questions and you’re not making assumptions that somebody else is taking care of it. And so there’s lot of fine print to read. You have the purchase agreement documents, you have a loan estimate documents that will show you as you get closer to close what are all the different fees involved and what you need to bring to the table as you are selling your home, and as you’re buying your home, what you need to bring to the table at the point of close and what are all those fees that are involved and do you understand exactly what that 85-page document says. And if not, are you willing to ask the questions along the way? You know, what a couple examples that I’ve run through along the way here is actually in a home that we were looking at purchasing in Columbus, that ended up falling apart is that there was something in the contract, which come to find out is actually pretty standard in Columbus contracts, that essentially gives the sellers a three-day, 72-hour clause, almost like a seller’s remorse clause. So if for whatever reason within 72 hours the seller decides, you know what, I really don’t want to sell my home because of reason A, B or C, they can pursue that if they issue an attorney letter explaining exactly why they do not want to pursue that, and that ultimately gives them a right out of that contract or at least to have to offer a counter to that, but of course, they could offer something that is egregious and ultimately, you’re not going to be interested in anyway.

So I’m going to give you an example of this is that we were looking at a home in Columbus. And I never knew that a washer and dryer were something that would be such a big deal to a seller. So long story short, in Ohio, it’s pretty standard that your appliances are going to stay with the home, the washer, dryer, that was going to stay, that was in the contract. We were on vacation, we get a call from our real estate agent, who says, ‘Hey, you know what, the buyer — excuse me, the seller really didn’t want to give up their washer and dryer, they didn’t mean to do that. Can they pull it out of the contract?’ And without even thinking much about it, not really objectively thinking, you know what, now we’re going to have to spend money to buy a washer and dryer, wasn’t trying to be a jerk but said no problem, they can keep the washer and dryer. Just add $1,000 toward close and we’ll go out and buy a washer and dryer. Well, that apparently sent the seller off the deep end, and I guess if you love your washer and dryer, you love your washer and dryer, that’s how it is. And they decided to pursue that clause, issue an attorney letter, spent $300-something dollars to do that, and came back with a counter offer that was $20,000 above what we had originally agreed on, which obviously, we were not interested in at that point. And so the lesson there was I read the purchase agreement. I read every detail of it more than once. But I never caught that section and the detail that obviously until it plays out, I thought maybe you can’t even necessarily do that. And so making sure you’re asking questions where you’re confused, you have people around you that can help and support you, and I think what I’ve learned is that by reading the fine print and showing a commitment to your real estate agent if you’re working with one, to the title company, to the lender, the more you are reading, you’re learning, you’re asking questions, I think the more informed buyer that you are, and it keeps all parties accountable and they’re ready to answer your questions because they know they’re probably coming. So No. 2 is the importance of reading the fine print.

No. 3 is a key one. And Nate and I talked a little bit about this in episodes 064 and 065, but I want to reemphasize it here is that you as the buyer set your own budget. Do not let the bank or the lender set your own budget. And I can speak here from firsthand, going through this right now, is that it’s easy to look at a certain range and then you start looking and you think, that would really be nice or this area would be really nice, and all of a sudden, you’re creeping up. And if the lender is setting the budget for you, you’re not going to necessarily really evaluate does the purchase of this home fit within the context and the other financial priorities that I have? It’s a great example that’s right now is that when Jess and I started working with our lender, Wyndham Capital, who has been outstanding, they’ve done a great job, is that they essentially — and this is in part because I think the lending is fairly loose right now because of how good the market is versus where it was, say, 10 years ago after the crash — they pretty much said, I hear what you’re saying, I know what you want, but you can have double that. Or are you sure that you need to or want to sell your current home? Because you know what, you don’t necessarily have to from our end. And so remember, and Nate talked about something called the 28-36 rule that will be used by the lender in determining what they will allow you as a maximum, what they will allow you as a maximum, to take out or to loan. And the 28-36 rule basically says that a household should spend a maximum of 28% of its gross monthly income on total housing expenses, total housing expenses, and no more than 36% on total debt, including housing and other debt such as car loans and other debt that you have as well. So the 28-36 rule, which may be used by a bank to determine what they will allow you or what they will give you in a pre-approval, $400,000, $500,000, $300,000, isn’t necessarily what you should be purchasing in the context of your other financial goals. And this is where it’s really critical to take a step back and say, what other financial priority goals am I trying to achieve? Maybe it’s paying back student loans, maybe it’s paying off credit card debt, saving for retirement, kids’ college, whatever the other things that you’re working towards, and how can I purchase a home in a way that allows me to achieve these other goals? And what is the maximum I am willing to do in terms of that purchase, not what the bank is willing to give to me.

So just quickly, a couple rules of thumb that I really like that you may have heard of before. If you’ve listened to or read any of Dave Ramsey’s stuff, he refers to a mortgage payment — and there’s different variations I’ve heard of this — a mortgage payment — it could be the mortgage alone or it could be the mortgage and insurance, it could be the mortgage, insurance, taxes and interest, so you’ll hear different versions of this — that is no more than 25%, no more than 25%, of your take-home pay. So if your monthly take-home pay is $8,000, this rule of thumb would say that your mortgage payment, and if you want to be conservative, with taxes, with insurance, with interest, your total monthly payment would be no more than $2,000 if you had an $8,000 take-home pay. Now, what that’s trying to do is prevent you from becoming or feeling like you’re house-poor. So if you have other goals that you’re trying to work on and achieve, you know then that no more than 25% of your take-home pay is going toward your home. Therefore, you’ll be able to achieve your other goals. Now, that’s a great general rule of thumb, but some of you maybe listening have no student loan debt, others of you may have $200,000 of student loan debt plus credit card debt plus very little progress on retirement, and obviously, those two situations would be very different. And so you need to evaluate this on a case-by-case basis.

Another rule of thumb is from the book, “The Millionaire Next Door,” by Tom Stanley says that no more than 2x your household income on the purchase price of a home. So if you have a household income of say $150,000, no more than $300,000 on the purchase of your home. Again, that’s trying to get to this idea of preventing you from becoming house-poor. And I cannot emphasize right now for those of you that are looking at buying in this moment, the lending right now — and I’ve experienced this firsthand — is pretty loose, meaning that you as a pharmacist with a good income, a good, stable earning potential, I think you’re going to find that the bank is willing to give you much more home than you probably need to have and that you probably want in terms of the other goals that you’re trying to achieve. And so what I really encourage you to do is zoom out of the lens of just the monthly payment and look at the total payout of what this home is going to cost you. So as one example, if you were to have a purchase price of a home around a $350,000 with mortgage, taxes, insurance, assuming a 30-year home with about a 4.5% interest rate, it’d be about a monthly payment of $1,900 a month for 30 years. If you do the math, that $350,000 home over the course of 30 years, you’re going to pay out about $684,000. Now, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad decision. It may be a great decision, depending on the other financial goals and what you’re trying to achieve, but looking beyond just the monthly payment also helps you look at this in a different way and evaluate how does this fit in with the other goals that you’re trying to achieve.

So No. 3 here is set your own budget, it’s a great reminder. Jess and I had this reminder this year, especially as the lending is loose. Don’t let the bank set the budget for you.

No. 4 is ask lots and lots and lots of questions. And I alluded to this a little bit in No. 2, but Jess and I have experienced this firsthand is that you want to be respectfully annoying. Be respectfully annoying because I think asking questions and showing a desire to learn, as I mentioned before, keeps all parties — the title agency, the loan officers, the lenders, everyone that you’re working with — let’s them know that you have a desire to learn, let’s them know that you’re ready, you’re invested, and I think it keeps people more accountable along the way. And I’ve had several individuals in this process, everyone from the loan officer to the title agency say, ‘You know what, I can tell that you’re really interested in this, and I usually don’t get these types of questions.’ And I think ultimately, I want them to know that I’m probably going to be asking questions. I think that helps them give me a more detailed and thorough response, also helps keep them accountable to make sure that they are giving the attention due to the process that is going along the way.

And I think this is really true of anything, whether it’s a home, a car, any major purchase that you’re making, an educated buyer, I truly believe, is going to get the best value along the way. And so just a few examples that we have in the lesson learned of the value of asking lots of questions is by asking lots of questions along the way, this has allowed us to negotiate and reduce title fees that actually identified an error in a property tax calculation that got corrected — and maybe that would have probably been identified anyways, but that question really helped identify that, and obviously that led to a reduction in what will be our future monthly payment. And for us, most importantly, as those two examples I just gave you are short-term savings, is that it helped us ensure we understood the process and we know exactly what we’re paying for. So whether it’s cost at closing or whether it’s when we send in that monthly payment each and every month, I know exactly where that money is going each and every month. And I think obviously that is powerful in and of itself, but I think it’s valuable just to know going into the future when we do this again or as we’re helping guide others in the process as well, knowing where that money is going, I think obviously is going to help motivate us to eventually get this paid off and turn this liability into an asset.

OK, so No. 4 is asking lots of questions.

No. 5, I’ve hit on this many times on the podcast and in blog posts, is the importance of 20% down. Now, no judgment here. I’m speaking from making this mistake back in 2010, I alluded to that at the beginning of the episode. Jess and I put 3.5% down through an FHA loan, and to be frank with you, we were paying for that for many years — really up until probably the last year because the reality is the way the mortgage is constructed with interest, it takes so long to build up equity in a home. And so to me, there’s lots of reasons to have 20% down on a home. Instantly, you have equity in the home. So if something like 2008 were to happen and the housing market would flip, you’re not likely to be underwater on your mortgage. Or what if you go to sell unexpectedly in two years because of a job change? And maybe you thought you’d be there 10, 15 or 20, you could build up equity, but you’re not for whatever reason or something unexpected happens. Now, you may not have enough equity in the home to cover all the costs associated with selling that home. And obviously then, you’re going to need additional funds to bring to the table to cover those costs.

Other advantages of 20% down — obviously, no Private Mortgage Insurance, we’ve talked about that, PMI, which is foreclosure insurance. You don’t have restrictions that are associated with loans like an FHA loan, which is in terms of how that PMI is structured and how you’re going to pay it, more stringent inspections and appraisal processes. And I think obviously, 20% down just keeps it simple. No PMI, no restrictions on how that loan is being structured, a cleaner inspection, appraisal process, you’re not trying to buy points in the process and trying to eventually get your PMI reduced. It makes a conventional loan purchase process incredibly simple, and I think it makes you an attractive customer to the lender. That’s something I heard over and over again from the lender that we’re working with, Wyndham Capital said, ‘You know what, you’re a great buyer. And we’re glad to be working with you,’ and I think it’s because of that 20% down, they obviously feel very comfortable with that conventional loan.

Now, the other thing I think 20% down really does — and again, I’m speaking here out of a personal mistake — is that it forces you down in the expectation of the home that you’re buying. It forces you down in the expectation of the home that you’re buying. Now what do I mean by that? If Jess and I right now were to say, ‘You know, we really want to buy a $500,000 home,’ if we stayed committed to 20% down, that would mean we have to come up with $100,000 in cash to be able to go to closing at that home plus the closing costs on top of that. Now, if we don’t have $100,000 equity in our current home or we’re buying for the first time, that obviously is going to take a lot of time to build up $100,000 of cash to be able to close on that home. So I think what that does if you stay committed to 20% down, you say, you know what, maybe that’s a $250,000 home. Maybe that’s a $300,000 home. Maybe less than that or maybe slightly more than that, depending on the market that you’re living in, will allow you to potentially buy down on the home, whereas if you go into a 0% down loan or a 3.5% down loan where you have to bring very little, if any, cash to the table, obviously I think it’s much easier to buy up on home and find yourself in the situation where you feel house-poor.

So 20% was the lesson learned No. 5, and I think here, this is an important point where you really have to evaluate, am I rushing to buy a home? Should I stay in a rent situation for longer? Should I buy? We have talked about this at great length, and what I would reference you to and will link to in the show notes is the New York Times has a great rent v. buy calculator that really helps you look at this in an apples-to-apples way in the best that you can to make the comparison. Because I know the trap that I fell into was well, I’m paying $1,100 a month for rent, my mortgage with taxes and with insurance is going be $1,100 a month. Why wouldn’t I buy a home and build up some equity? And the reality I learned, which is an obvious one now looking back is that I was really building very little, if any, equity because of how the loan was structured and because I had almost nothing down and I forgot to include all those other fees on top of that in terms of the maintenance and everything that comes with the home that easily is upwards of 30-50% of the mortgage payment by itself.

So before we jump into points 6-10, I want to take a quick break and just re-emphasize something we talked about in episodes 064 and 065 is that if you are looking to buy or sell a home, get started in real estate investing or have a question that you want to have answered by a licensed real estate agent that is also a pharmacist, make sure to head on over to YourFinancialPharmaicst.com/realestateRPH to get in touch with Nate Hedrick, the Real Estate RPH. Again, that’s YourFinancialPharmaicst.com/realestateRPH. And you can submit your question. We have a few details and information to fill out, and he will respond to you as soon as possible. Again, we’ll have him back on in Episode 067 for the rapid-fire Q&A on home buying.

OK, so points 1-5, we covered lessons learned. No. 6 is shop around. Shop around for title companies that you’re working with if your contract allows that, shop around for the lender that you’re going to work with, but be careful how you do it. So lesson learned No. 6, shop around, but be careful how you do it. Now, why am I saying be careful how you do it? So I made a mistake — and I alluded to this on Episode 065 — I made the mistake of saying, I’d really like to see this tool that’s out there now advertised called Lending Tree becuase if it’s a good tool to compare for lenders, rather than just depending on the local bank or a lender that I’ve worked with previously, I’d love to be able to share that with the YFP community. Now, I’m glad I tested that first because honestly, I would not recommend that you use a tool like Lending Tree because I submitted my information, and literally for about a month-long period of time, I was getting phone calls and voice messages all day long of lenders trying to get ahold of me, even long after I selected a lender. And so I think that the point here is a good one is shopping around and not just depending on one lending quote or one title company, whatever you’re working with, one real estate agent, is really shopping around will allow you to look at multiple options just like you would with any other major purchase. However, do not just focus on the price when it comes to a title company or an insurance quote that you’re getting or a commission that you’re going to pay a real estate agent or a rate that you’re going to pay a lending company on your loan. That certainly is a critically important factor, but you need to make sure you’re looking at the other components like are they easy to work with? Are they communicative? Are they responsive? Do they have a good reputation? Because I can tell you from this process over the last month, all of these individuals I’ve been in touch with, on some weeks on a daily basis. And so working with one lending agency that’s going to give you a 4.55% rate versus another that’s going to give you a 4.6% rate, but one’s not going to respond to you as much or not going to close on time, they’re going to cause you a lot of headaches, you have to really evaluate is it worth it? And obviously, if you can get the best of both worlds, that’s the place to go. And so making sure you’re shopping around for all these different areas, making sure you know what is and is not neogtiable, I think is a great lesson to be learned, certainly one that I’ve learned. But be careful how you do it in terms of getting multiple quotes.

Lesson No. 7 is make sure to consider all of the total costs and fees that are associated with buying a home — and if you’re selling a home, obviously that’s associated with the selling as well. And to be fair and to be honest, don’t be surprised by a few more that come along the way. And there was sometimes I would look at documents, and just this past week, I was looking at our loan estimate closing documents, and all this laundry list of title fees and no explanation of what they are. And they ended up being legitimate fees, but again, back to being an educated buyer, making sure you’re asking questions, making sure you’re trying to compare one of these to another if you’re looking at shopping around with two different companies, but I think what tends to happen when you’re buying a home is you hone in on the sale price of the home alone. So ooh, that home’s at $350,000, it’s within our budget. Great, that is certainly an important factor, but what about all of the other fees that are involved.

Now, if you’re just buying a home, as Nate mentioned on the previous episodes, there’s really no realtor fees that are involved because of how they’re absorbed by the seller, so that’s simplified somewhat. However, when you’re on the selling end, you obviously have the realtor fees, which can be 5-7%, roughly, of the sale of the home. And depending on the purchase agreement, you may be responsible for some of those at the buyer’s expense. And obviously, that can vary from state to state, region to region, purchase ot purchase. You’ve got the down payment on the home, you’ve got the appraisal cost, you’ve got inspection, you’ve got title fees, you’ve got prepaids at close in terms of homeowners insurance and mortgage insurance if you don’t have 20% down, and property taxes and HOA fees. You’ve got moving fees, right? So if you have to pick up and move across the state or across the country, are you going to hire a mover? Are you going to do it yourself? Are you going to have them pack? Are you not going to have them pack? And of course, you have the transitionary fees. So as you’re in the pack-up phase, you’re probably eating out more, you’re taking trips to Lowe’s to fix things on your current home before you sell if that’s the case or when you’re buying a home, when you get there to do some quick home improvements. So really set out and not just look at the purchase price and say, ‘OK, we got to 20% down or whatever our goal is.’ But look at all of the costs that are involved with the purchase along the way.

And prior to this episode, I sent a note out to our Facebook group to say, hey, what are some of the lessons that you’ve learned along the way when it comes to home buying. And I like what Wes said in terms of ‘be wary of what’s called a special assessment fee in a new neighborhood. Typically, it’s a fee being applied to each homeowner for the cost of development of the new neighborhood. Think bonds taken out by the municipality that include interest that then are being applied equally to each new homeowner for a period of time, say it’s 10 years.’ So Wes, thank you for contributing. For those of you that are not yet a part of the YFP Facebook group, we’d love to have you join. And I think that’s just an example of this laundry list of fees and miscellaneous fees and more fees that can come along the way. And I think the lesson that Jess and I learned is we are so focused on the sale price and so focused at getting that 20% down, thankfully, we had some buffer beyond our six-month emergency fund, our 3-6 months emergency fund to cover some of these other costs. But making sure you’re really looking at the entire picture of all fees that are involved. So that’s No. 7 is consider all the costs.

No. 8, the lesson learned here is the long-term “hidden costs” when buying a home that can make a difference. Now, I’m not talking about the transactional cost, I’m talking about the long-term hidden costs beyond what I just covered in lesson No. 7. So here, we’re talking beyond the sale price, beyond the transaction costs. So what I’m referring to here are things like property taxes, homeowner’s insurance, HOA fees, local income tax if that is applicable or not. And so I think here that again, another area you tend to focus, I know we tend to focus, on the sale price of a home. But in reality, from one neighborhood to another in the same city, your property taxes could be different by $2,000-3,000 a year. Well, that has a huge impact on your monthly payment. Or homeowner’s insurance that you’re going to be paying each and every month, each and every year. Or does the development have HOA fees or not? Does the city have a 1-2% local income tax or not that you’re going to be paying each and every year? These are the long-term, what I call hidden costs that — not saying you necessarily wnat to avoid these because there could be great reasons for being in an area that has these: great schools, great community, great neighborhoods, etc. — but making sure you’re aware of these and how they’re going to contribute to your monthly payment and making sure you’ll be able to stay within budget and to achieve your other financial goals.

And Brittany from the Facebook group here says that, ‘Upkeep costs of one home versus another for sure. So we have two acres and a pool. Upkeep is quite pricy.’ And I think that’s great is if you’re looking at two very different styles of home that’s on land, a home that’s not on land, a home that has a pool, a home that does not have a pool, or any other factor like that, what is going to be the upkeep differences and making sure you’re acounting for those and how that may fit into your monthly budget, obviously those factors being beyond your monthly payment.

No. 9, Jess and I have learned this firsthand, we are feeling it right now, is the value of having a solid emergency fund in place when you’re making these big purchases. So we’ve talked many times before on this podcast and the blog, 3-6 months of expenses in a long-term savings account set aside to cover a job loss or some other emergency fund, and I think it goes without saying that here, when you’re making a massive purchase, you’re in a transitionary period of time, a solid emergency fund in place gives you peace of mind that if something goes wrong on either end, if you’re buying or selling, or you have some backup there during a transition, if you have a gap of employment, as I mentioned, something goes wrong, the peace of mind here can not be traded in terms of what a solid emergency fund will bring. And so I’m a big advocate of, again, 20% down, a solid emergecny fund, neither of which Jess and I did on our first purchase, both of which we’re doing now, brings an incredible amount of peace and I think reduces anxiety during that transitionary period.

And finally, lesson learned No. 10 is the importance of having a good team around you. Now, I mentioned at the very beginning, lesson No. 1, that we’ve taken the DIY for-sale-by-owner approach because we had essentially a buyer approach us in our neighborhood. And so we don’t have the real estate agent involved in the process. However, as I alluded to, if I had to do it all over again, even with a known buyer, I would question that decision, although it’s had great value. And so here, a great team around you, I’m referring to a real estate agent that is transparent, that is acting in your best interests, that you know and that you trust; a good financial planner that knows your situation and that can keep you accountable in this process. So for Jess and I, Tim Baker is a phone call away, and I called him just a couple weeks ago because we were having some potential issues and still are potentially with closing dates to say, hey, what are the options? Help talk me through this. What am I not thinking about? What are my blind spots? And I think for such an emotional, big decision, having a financial planner on your team that can say, hey, does this fit in the context of all these other things that we talked about? Or what if we waited three more months? Or maybe it’s the right time, but what about this or that? Somebody to keep you and/or a spouse accountable through this process is incredibly important. Obviously, you have the lender, the title company, this team is one that you’re going to be communicating with regularly. And Nate alluded to this on previous episodes, making sure you have this team ready to go and knows exactly what your priorities are before you get started in the process.

So there you have it, 10 lessons learned that are reinforced or in some cases, mistakes that we’ve made through this process. And we’re not fully through it yet. So we’ve got a couple weeks. Hopefully at the end of this month, we’re going to be moving into the home in Columbus. We’re in the final processes of getting paperwork signed, closing date’s hopefully this Friday, early next week. And so stay tuned; I may have more stories to share — successes, mistakes along the way. Again, that’s what this is all about, hopefully helping you learn through the process as well and I’m hoping through these lessons, you can save yourself some headaches and do this in a better way or potentially even share some of your own stories with others as well.

So as a reminder as we wrap up here, again, along with this month-long series, we have a YFP first-time home buying quick start guide that you can download at YourFinancialPharmacist.com/homeguide. Again, that’s YourFinancialPharmacist.com/homeguide. And as we wrap up this episode of the podcast, I want to take a moment to again thank our sponsor of today’s show, Common Bond.

Sponsor: Common Bond is on a mission to provide a more transparent, simple, and affordable way to manage higher education expenses. Their approach is no big secret. Lower rates, simpler options, and a world-class experience, all built to support you throughout your student loan journey. Since its founding, Common Bond has funded over $2 billion in student loans. This is the only student loan company to offer a true one-for-one social promise. What that means is that for every loan Common Bond funds, they also fund the education of a child in the developing world through its partnership with Pencils of Promise. So right now, as a member of the YFP community, you can get a $500 cash bonus when you refinance through the link YourFinancialPharmacist.com/commonbond. Again, that’s YourFinancialPharmacist.com/commonbond.

Tim Ulbrich: Thank you so much for joining me today. I look forward to next week’s episode where we’ll bring Nate, the Real Estate RPH, back on to do a rapid-fire Q&A on home buying. Have a great rest of your week.

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