Day: August 11, 2022

Buying a Home with Spiking Interest Rates, Inflation, and Market Insanity

Nate Hedrick, The Real Estate RPh and co-host of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, discusses how interest rates, inflation, and market insanity are impacting home buyers.

Episode Summary

On this episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, welcomes Nate Hedrick, PharmD, back to the show to discuss inflation, interest rates, and the market insanity impacting home buyers in today’s market. Nate explains how the current interest rates may determine the affordability of homes for many buyers and how the change in interest rates can even price some buyers out of markets based on the monthly payment buyers face when purchasing a home. He shares that with interest rates rising, people may pay a similar monthly payment for a home of equal or lesser size if they consider moving right now, leaving many folks “locked in.” Nate shares insight into how inflation affects home buying behaviors concerning supply and demand. He sees two patterns playing out in the market. Buyers are getting into the market as quickly as possible to try to beat future inflation, as well as potential buyers opting out of buying homes at this time due to the increased cost of living and fears of continued increases impacting their budgets. Tim and Nate close out with questions from the YFP Facebook Group about investing strategy, finding “white coat” loans, and best practices for working with a realtor when relocating out of state. 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• Real Estate RPh
• YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast
• YFP Real Estate Concierge Service
• Book Your Jump Start Planning Meeting
• Find an Investor-Friendly Agent
• YFP 254: Home Buying Search: What to Do and What to Avoid
• Download the YFP Home Buying Quick Start Guide
• Join the Your Financial Pharmacist Facebook Group
• Join the YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook Group
• YFP 148: How One Couple Got Started in Real Estate Investing
• YFP Real Estate Investing 05: None to One: How to Get Your FIRST Investment Property
• Learn More About First Horizon’s Pharmacist Home Loan and Start the Pre-Approval Process
• 5 Steps to Getting a Home Loan
• The White Coat Investor: Physician Mortgage Loans
• YFP 160: Navigating the Home Buying Process Through the YFP Concierge Service
• Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This we got a chance to welcome a friend of the show Nate Hedrick, the real estate RPh and cohost of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast. On today’s episode, Nate and I discuss how interest rates, inflation, and market insanity are impacting homebuyers. Have a monthly payment at today’s interest rates is the same for $375,000 home, as it was about six months ago for a $500,000 home at lower rates. And how to find out more information on pharmacist’s home Loans, aka professional home loans, or doctor loans.

Now, buying a home or investment property is certainly an exciting experience but can feel overwhelming at times. Between finding an agent, securing your financing, and actually searching for a property. It’s hard to know where to start. And that’s why we’ve teamed up with my guests today, Nate Hedrick the real estate RPh, to provide a simple solution to jumpstart your home buying process. Through this concierge service, Nate will help you craft a plan, connect with a local agent that you trust, and stay by your side throughout the process to lend an ear for helping hand.

You can learn more about the free concierge service with Nate, and book a call by visiting yourfinancialpharmacist.com. Click on Home Buying at the top of the page, and then find an agent. Again, yourfinancialpharmacist.com, Home Buying at the top of the page, and then find an agent. All right, let’s jump into my interview with Nate Hedrick, your real estate RPh.

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:01:32] TU: Nate, welcome back to the show.

[00:01:34] NH: Hey, Tim. Always great to be here.

[00:01:35] TU: Really excited to have a conversation with you, as always, to tap in your expertise on what’s going on in the market more timely than ever right now. So, we’re going to talk about some of the market insanity, interest rates, inflation, the impact that that’s having for those that are looking at purchasing a home. But before we get to that, I’m dying to know, you made the transition since we last talked, a half time, in May. So, tell us more about that transition. Why you made that transition? Cutting back on some of your pharmacy work and what that has meant for you and your family?

[00:02:09] NH: Yeah, I had this moment I think I shared the last time we spoke. But I had this moment earlier last year where I realized that Lucy might, my eldest was going to be going to kindergarten in the fall, and just had this panic moment of like, “I’m missing everything. They’re growing up too fast.” So, my wife and I sat down and Kris and I really talked to a bunch about it and said, “Can we make this work? Can we cut back just to spend more time with them?” So, that’s exactly what we did. So, I cut back to half time, 20 hours a week, and it’s been a really awesome fit. We’ve been having a ton of time with the kids, taking them on vacations, doing fun, dad adventure, summer stuff. But I also feel like I’m still involved at work in a meaningful way, which is honestly the perfect balance for me right now. I’ve been loving this. It’s been great. 

[00:02:50] TU: That’s awesome. Summer of being a dad, right?

[00:02:53] NH: Exactly. It’s been really cool. After we record this podcast, I think we’re going over to Memphis Kiddie Park. So, anybody from the Cleveland area that knows that, big shout outs. That’s where we’ll be after this, if you want to find me.

[00:03:03] TU: I love that. We have fond memories of that when we were up in the Cleveland area for about 10 years. So, that’s a great, great place for the kids. I’m going to link Nate in the show notes, we last talked on episode 254. We talked about home buying, search, what to do and what to avoid, including evaluating listings, why open houses exists, how to navigate that, how agents get paid, that’d be a great resource, especially for first time homebuyers. We’ve got a lot more content on the site, podcast, blog that Nate has contributed, related to home buying. So, make sure to check some of that out.

But today, as I mentioned, we’re going to be discussing buying a home in the midst of spiking interest rates, inflation, holy cow inflation, and market insanity. Shout out to David Bright, your cohost of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast for giving us the alliteration of the three I’s, interest rates, inflation and market insanity. That was his idea. So, I can’t take credit for that.

So, Nate, let’s start with interest rates. Where are we at, at the time of this recording, and end of July? We just had the Fed announced a hike of three quarters of a point. So, give us an update of where we’re at in terms of interest rates and where we might expect for some of this to be going.

[00:04:12] NH: Yeah, so if you’ve been living under a financial rock, you may have missed it. But for everybody else, obviously the interest rates have been going up. The Fed is raising those interest rates in an effort to fight our second I, inflation. As a result, we’re just seeing everything is costing a bit more in terms of lending. So right now, today, I look back, just in prep for this recording, and on 7/14, the 30-year fixed rate was running around 5.67% as a national average. If you look back even a year, it was under 4%, if not under 3%, in some extreme cases. So, we’re really starting to shoot up in terms of interest rate and it can really affect a number of things. It can affect affordability, and for a lot of people that means their monthly payment on a property or on a mortgage.

But it can also affect just lending in general, right? You might be pricing yourself out of a particular market. Because now, with the interest rates going up, you have a larger payment, which means you can’t afford the same size home, which means you might not be able to buy in the neighborhood you want to. So, there’s a number of things that are occurring as a result of that interest rate hike.

[00:05:16] TU: Yes, crazy, Nate. I think we’ve been spoiled. I graduated in ‘08, you graduated not too long after me. But we have been used to this ultra-low interest rate environment. So, I think some of this is just shocking to us. We talked to our parents and grandparents and they’re like, “5% 6%.” I remember numbers in the high teens, right? But we haven’t experienced that. And so, I think, this period of high inflation, we’re looking at 8%, 9% over the last year. What we’re seeing in interest rates, is really having a shock, and I think for many of us that look at things like monthly payment and budgets, especially for pharmacists that haven’t seen their pay necessarily expand proportionately, these things matter. They matter big time.

Let me give one example, Nate, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on how folks are thinking about this that are in the buying process. But if someone is looking at a $400,000 home, and let’s assume a 30-year fixed rate loan, just a couple years ago, 3% was not too far out of the equation in terms of a 30-year fixed rate loan. That’d be a monthly payment of just shy of $1,700 a month, or about $600,000, that they would pay for that $400,000 home over the life of the loan.

Fast forward, if we use five and a half percent, which were actually a little bit higher than that right now. But if we use five and a half percent, instead of 3%, we look at a monthly payment of closer to 2,300 instead of 1,700. So, about a $600 difference. And instead of $600,000 paid out of pocket over the life of the loan, we’re looking at a little over $800,000 paid out of pocket over the life of the loan. I would suspect, Nate, that for many folks, while that $200,000 difference over 30 years is somewhat shocking, it’s probably that monthly amount that really folks are looking at most right now. Is that right?

[00:07:01] NH: I think so, too. I’ll put a kind of a similar example to you that I’ve been using recently. If you’ve got a monthly payment on a $500,000 loan today, at three and a half percent. So really, common. Lots of people out there have this. In fact, over 50% of mortgage owners or homeowners today have a mortgage interest rate less than 4%, that’s a national stat. If you’re at $500,000 loan at three and a half percent, your monthly payment is 20 to 45. That exact same payment is what you would get today on a $375,000 house at 6% interest.

So, we’ve got people out there who are maybe living in a $500,000 home or have a $500,000 loan, thinking about downsizing saying, “Oh, I sell this property off, I built up a lot of equity, we’re going to move to a smaller home, $375,000 house.” But you’re going to have the exact same payment in that new home. So, it’s really starting to affect the market. Because if I’m that person, and I’m thinking about selling, why would you sell? You’re just giving away your equity for free and it makes it really tough when you start to break down that monthly payment.

[00:08:07] TU: Yeah, that’s a really powerful example, because I think all of us can relate to scrolling through Redfin, and Zillow and realtor.com. Looking at homes at different values, but when you start to factor in the interest rates and pay a $500,000, home at what was three and a half percent, same as about a $375,000 home today, wow, like that really starts to put it in into perspective.

So, Nate, when I think about inflation, and think about interest rates, a lot of this, especially when we were talking about kind of the impact of the economy, a lot of this becomes a snowball type of effect, where when I hear that 50% of folks that have a mortgage are under 4%, and then conduct that with the calculation you just gave, that has to be furthering the supply and demand issue, right? Because if I’m in the home on that right now. My wife, Jessica, and I were locked in at 3%. Maybe we’re itching for something different, new home, new area, whatever, you quickly look at the math and the numbers. You’re like, “Wow, we’re going to give up a lot on home to be able to make that move. And is it really worth it financially, considering, maybe equity that we built up over time?”

So, I would imagine this is just furthering the previous issues we’ve talked about around supply and demand. Is that fair?

[00:09:18] NH: Yeah. I don’t know that I have empiric evidence of this. But I think when you run the numbers like that, and sit back and think about it, it makes a ton of sense. If I’m thinking about – even if I’m thinking about moving across town, because I want a different location of house or I want a slightly bigger house, when you run that math, it almost becomes, “Well, maybe we’ll make this work for a while longer”, because it seems terrible to move right now. I don’t want to do that. There are no houses available and I’m paying more every single month for either exactly what I have now or for a slightly bigger home. So, it feels like people are going to be – I’ve actually heard this term thrown around recently called, locked in, where like you said, I’m locked into an interest rate. Why would I bother moving when I’m sitting on this for 30 years at a lower rate?

[00:09:59] TU: Yeah. I think the question that everyone has is like, is this the new norm? Are we going to see returns to lower rates? Because I think often folks might look at that and say, “Well, maybe I do make that move for X, Y, or Z reasons, and I hope to refinance in the future.” But the question is, like, are rates going to go up? Are they going to go down? Again, in the future, no one knows. But certainly, as we think about this, from a financial planning perspective, when we zoom out for a moment, we certainly don’t want to be banking on rates going down and refinancing a later point. If that happens, great. We increase some of the cash flow, but we want to be making sure that this fits into the budget, as is, in case that does not happen into the future.

[00:10:38] NH: And you said something earlier too, that’s super important is that, this is – we’re spoiled, right? Every one of us that’s sitting in our current generation looking at interest rates, we’re spoiled with the low ones, right? We’re spoiled at 3%. So, five and a half, 6%, seems very high. But I think that will actually become pretty normal again. I think that over time, we’re going to realize that that is actually where we’re going to end up. Like you said, waiting for them to come back down to these pre-4% rates, don’t hold your breath, I guess is my point.

[00:11:09] TU: Speaking of being spoiled, Nate, inflation, our second I is a category we’ve been spoiled as well, again, thinking of my peers that graduated around the time we did, or perhaps even sooner than that. Other folks that have been in their career for longer have experienced higher inflation time periods. But we’re at a point in time where inflation is the highest it’s ever been, and I think we’re looking at a 40-year period. The Consumer Price Index, rose a little over 9%, from a year ago. Perhaps we’re at the peak, perhaps we’re not. But you’re probably feeling this firsthand. I know, our family is, with our four boys, food bills are insane. Obviously, we know a gas has been doing.

So, my question here is, how is this rising inflation on top of rising interest rates in a competitive market? How is this factoring into the equation?

[00:11:58] NH: Yeah, I think from a real estate perspective, it’s doing two things. One is you’ve got some people who have FOMO, right? They’re afraid of missing out, so they are trying to jump in quickly, which is keeping demand up. Where I’m looking at this and saying, inflation is only going to get worse, real estate is basically the inverse of inflation, right? It’s inverse or it’s protected against inflation in some capacity. So, I want to get into a house now, while interest rates are still reasonable. I think they’re going to rise and inflation is going up and up. So, again, I think that’s keeping demand quite high.

We’ve also got people who are looking at it and saying, “I was at the top of my budget before, now I’m spending all this extra money on gas and food and everything else, maybe I’m going to take a step back and see what happens in the next six months. Because this is getting out of hand and I don’t want to buy in right now, where it might get worse, and then I can’t even afford this property.” So, I think we’re seeing both halves of that – both sides of that coin, and it’s keeping demand up in certain areas. But also, having some buyers step back and others.

[00:13:00] TU: Are you seeing, Nate, in conversations you’re having with prospective buyers, are you seeing a significant shift in the wish list and the expectations for home? You and I have talked about this before, but I think of my parents’ generation, and that idea of very much a starter home and I grew up in a – it worked, it was great, but it was certainly much smaller than the home that Jess and our boys live in, in terms of number of bedrooms, and space and size and finished areas, and all those types of amenities. And it really wasn’t until I graduated high school and was in college that they really took that step to the home, I would say they would categorize as their forever home. But we definitely have seen a shift, where that idea of like that forever home is coming much earlier in one’s career.

So, is this causing for many folks like a shift in expectations of, “Hey, maybe that idea of let’s get into a home doesn’t have everything we have or want. We can grow into it and maybe we look at pivoting in 5 to 10 years.” Are you hearing more of that?

[00:14:00] NH: I don’t know. I’m only an n of one, right? So, it’s a hard perspective to give. For me, I’m not seeing it affecting first time homebuyers that much. I feel like most of those individuals are looking at it and saying, “I want to get into a house. Here’s what I can afford.” And then you just kind of look at the market and see okay, well what does a $300,000 house actually get me and how many things can I get on my wish list? Yeah, where I am seeing it start to impact my clients is on the investment side. That interest rate is really, and inflation in general because of price of materials, price of contractors, price of everything is going up. It’s really starting to affect that wish list, right? I don’t want to be doing as much rehab work. I don’t want to be doing as big of a project potentially.

So that, I’m seeing change in terms of wish list. But right now, anyway, I think as a first-time homebuyer, this stuff doesn’t come up as much. You just kind of look at your budget, you work out the numbers, and then you look for houses. I don’t know that people are that intentional as you and I would be looking at something like this.

[00:14:59] TU: Yeah, and that makes sense, because of exactly what you said. If I’m starting a home buying search, I’m looking at my budget, I’m looking at the numbers, and then I’m putting those filters into whatever tool I’m using, and you’re then evaluating from there, what’s the best fit for you and your family. So, maybe for some folks that have been searching for a couple years, they can really, really see like, “Oh, my gosh, $300,000, $400,000 does not go as far as it did.” Obviously, just –

[00:15:24] NH: Yeah. Anybody with a pulse on the market is definitely seeing that, for sure. 

[00:15:27] TU: Yeah. So, our third our I, market insanity. So, if we put together interest rates, we put together inflation, what are we seeing? I mean, national headlines, it feels like we’re seeing kind of a cooling off in the market. Your boots on the ground. We’ve talked about some supply and demand types of impacts. What have we seen in terms of the impact of interest rates and inflation on what seems to have been a very hot and active market over the last couple years?

[00:15:52] NH: Yeah, I still think it’s a pretty hot market. It’s shifting in subtle ways, though. So, the two big things that I’m seeing is, again, you’re seeing national headlines about like price decreases in certain areas. I think with a lot of that price decrease is coming from, is places that were previously overpriced, or at the top end of a particular market threshold. So, if I’m looking at a neighborhood where all the houses are $250,000 or so, yeah, and somebody fixes up a place, lists it for 300 grand. Well, a year ago, that probably would have sold like that, and somebody would have paid over asking, over appraised value and not cared, right? Because that was just the market that we were in.

Today, those are not selling. People are not as able to overpay for a property as they were a year ago. So, I’m seeing those houses be the ones that get the price decreases, the people who are trying to be greedy for lack of a better word, and trying to tap into that crazy market, those are the ones that I’m seeing get danged.

The other area I’m seeing some shifting or some slowdown, is in the property that need a ton of work. So again, with the market we had 6, 12 months ago, even if your property was really in disrepair, you could usually get away with selling it pretty quickly. There were tons of investors out there, tons of capital, lending was super cheap, everybody wanted to buy something. So, you could get away with that, right? Someone would buy it, they would fix it up themselves and do something with it.

Well, now, with interest rates where they are, it’s harder to refinance out of that. You don’t know what the next six months is going to look like. So, I’m seeing investors who would have taken on $100,000 projects, $200,000 projects, are just stepping completely away from those. So, I’m seeing a lot of properties that are at that bottom end, that need a bunch of help. And they’re just sitting there and nothing’s being done to them.

[00:17:33] TU: That makes sense. That makes sense. I want to pivot here for a little bit, and a few years ago, you helped us put together a really awesome first-time home buying guide, we’ll link to that in the show notes. It’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/homebuying, and you go through six steps for the first-time homebuyer. What I want to do is pick your brain a little bit of when you wrote that, the time period you were in, right now, are two very different time periods. I think as we look back on that now, different market in terms of buyer’s market, seller’s market, obviously, some of the factors that we’ve talked about here today and it’s just different.

So, as we look at some of these factors around being ready, and looking at what’s important, and negotiation, and inspections, and all those types of things, it’s a different landscape that we’re in today. So, I’m going to pick your brain here on a few moments of some of this. The first step, Nate, that you talked about in that guide, is make sure you’re ready. Know your budget, thinking about other debt, debt to income ratios. We’ve talked before in the show, but I want to highlight again, the 28/36 rule from a lending perspective. What is it, first of all, and what’s changed over the past couple of months, or even just the past year as it relates to lending? As folks are looking at, what they may or may not get approved for?

[00:18:48] NH: Yeah, great questions, Tim. So, the 28/36 rule, just to kind of highlight that for a second is the idea that lenders are going to look at your debt to income ratio, and give you an idea, a lending decision based on that number. So, what the 28/36 rule says is that you cannot spend more than 28% of your gross monthly income on housing expenses, and no more than 36% of your gross monthly income on all debt. What that can look like for, again, just to put a pharmacist’s example out there, is that if I’m adding up all my outstanding debts, meaning student loan, meaning the debt from my mortgage, anything that is a monthly payment, I had to pay credit card debt, you name it, it’s getting turned into that. And if that number exceeds 36% of my total gross income, they may deny you for that property.

So, those rules are still in place for a conventional loan established by – it’s backed up by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. But what we’re starting to see, the shift that I’ve been seeing, at least over the last –even going further back six, eight months ago, is letters that were kind of playing with that rule a little bit, using non-conventional products for certain individuals to try to get them into properties that they could afford, and really trying to push that limit. So, again, those rules are still in place. They absolutely need to be there for Fannie and Freddie Mac lending. But it is starting to shift a little bit in terms of the types of loans that lenders are offering up or that they are recommending to buyers, because there might be alternatives that can help them.

One of the things I’m seeing a ton of right now is lenders pushing arm products, adjustable rate mortgages, where that 28/36 rule might not apply, right? Where you’re going to have an adjustable rate after three years, or five years or seven. So, there’s changes in what’s going on in terms of the types of lending, but a lot of those rules are still in place.

[00:20:29] TU: Which is a really good place to remind folks that, as we’ve hit so many times on the show before, you really have to drive your budget and think about how this is fitting into the rest of your financial plan, especially, as prices are going up. If you are looking at a non-conventional product that increases that amount that you’re able to land, does it still fit within the context of your budget or not?

Nate, for those that are listening that have now had their student loans on pause for more than two years on the federal side, and we’re awaiting momentarily some updates on that, about the extension or not. Remind us of how those have been factored in? Or how lenders are looking at the loans where they have been making a payment.

[00:21:12] NH: Yeah, so it’s tricky, because the lenders can’t see that exactly right. So, they see that you’re paying zero, but that doesn’t tell them what they’re actually going to be paying. So, what I’ve seen from lenders, and again, not a lender, so don’t quote me on this exactly, but what I’m seeing from lenders right now is that they are trying to basically guess at what your payment is going to be. If you have past records you can provide them with and say, “Look, my normal payment is $1,400 a month, but now I’m paying zero.” They’re factoring that in. They know these are coming back at some point. If they’re wrong, if they don’t come back, for whatever reason, better to err on the side of caution.

So, those are still being factored in. You absolutely should factor that into your budget, because again, best case scenario, these go away somehow, or they get reduced or whatever. But you got to plan for that worst-case potential of these payments come back and they come back in full force.

[00:22:01] TU: That makes sense. Related to the making sure you’re ready in the budget, the other question I have for you is on the down payment. I would think in theory, that as home prices go up, as people are feeling stretched more month to month and budget, there might be more folks that are looking at some of those non-conventional options, where they’re not having to put 20% down on a conventional loan. Simple math, right? If you were a few years ago, looking at a $300,000 home, you’re looking at $60,000 down, 20%. $500,000 home, let’s say in today’s kind of market of what it is, obviously, that’s $100,000. So, that’s a significant difference in cash that you’re foregoing.

And so, folks are looking at, okay, not only is the potential for the down payment going to be higher, but also, we’re looking at a monthly cash flow difference because of interest rates. Are we seeing or do you anticipate seeing more folks are looking at some more of those non-conventional products where they’re having to put less down, and looking at different loan types that are out there?

[00:22:56] NH: Yeah, for sure. I think especially with the raising prices of homes in general, people who are sitting in the sidelines trying to save up enough money, they’re seeing their actual ratio of money saved versus down payment needed, decreasing as they fill up their account, right? And that’s just because the prices of homes are outpacing the ability they have to save. So absolutely, we’re seeing more people use those lower down payment options.

I was just talking to a lender yesterday or the day before, and he said he’s actually have a ton of pharmacists who are using FHA lending right now, not because they have bad credit or need FHA –pieces that come with FHA, but because they can do it at three and a half percent down. And so again, it’s interesting to see how things are shifting based on the rising interest rates and the increases in overall home values.

[00:23:42] TU: Nate, one of the other things we talked about in that guide, as well, as negotiating. Step five, you talked about find your home and negotiate. What leverage, if any, does exist in this current market of negotiation? Are we starting to see, in some cases, you mentioned just a few moments ago, that there may be scenarios where some homes that were just flying off the market are going for less than asking? Is there any place for negotiation in today’s market?

[00:24:08] NH: There is. It’s better than it was, certainly. I think, in those two areas that I mentioned before, the bottom of the market, and the very top, there’s a little more flexibility now. That middle zone, though, is still absolutely crazy. I’m seeing properties that when they come up, and they’re nice and priced appropriately, they’re still 10 offers and it’s inspections being waived, and all the other craziness that goes with it. So, it depends on where you’re buying. But absolutely. I’ve had a client recently that was able to get a pretty good deal on an investment property, just because they were buying a place that needed a lot more work and nobody else wanted to touch it. So, they were looking a pretty good deal on that.

[00:24:47] TU: You mentioned inspection waivers in those cases where there still are multiple offers, and that was my question for you as well is, have we seen any of that cooling off? Where there’s inspection waivers, we talked about appraisal gaps, people might need some cash, more cash at that table than they were anticipating. Is that cooling off at all? Or, again, just market specific type of property and the amount of demand that’s there?

[00:25:08] NH: Yeah, it’s pretty market specific. I was just speaking with a pharmacist last night, that is actually a pharmacist and her husband. And her husband is a structural engineer. He was looking at a property for a client, that the piers under the house, were leaning 20% or something crazy. Again, they probably waived inspections before they bought that property. And now, it’s a big problem. So, it’s still out there. It’s very market specific, but it’s still being done, and I still do not recommend it.

[00:25:37] TU: Again, if folks want to download that guide, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/homebuying. We’ll link to that in the show notes.

Nate, I want to pivot to a few questions that we got from the YFP community in our Facebook group, leading up to this episode, and if folks are not yet a part of that group, I would encourage you to join that awesome community more than 8,000 pharmacists across the country that are asking great questions engaging with one another, challenging one another, sharing wins, and so we’ll link to that in the show notes as well.

First question we have from the group for you is how are you changing your strategy for investment properties, given the current conditions that we’ve discussed on the show?

[00:26:12] NH: Yeah, so me personally, the biggest change that I’m seeing is just planning for interest rates to continue to increase. So again, if you talk to me a year ago, I was all in on BRRRR investing, right, the idea of buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. I still love the idea of BRRRR investing, but it’s getting more difficult because you’re talking about buying a property today. If you’re doing it with cash, or you’re doing it with even a mortgage that you’re going to then change down the road, that mortgage down the road, you know it’s going to be a higher interest rate and it’s hard to predict how high it’s going to be. So, it makes it a little trickier to make sure that your numbers are getting right.

So, we actually had a property that we’re dealing with right now. I actually just posted about this in the YFP REI Facebook groups, take a look, that we were going back and forth about whether or not we’re going to sell it, or rent it. When we bought it, it was all in. Like we were going to rent it, we were going to BRRRR it, we were going to cash out, refi. Well, if we cash out and refi’d today, with the amount of work that we put in, we’d be doubling our loan amount and doubling our interest rate. And again, because we bought it with a mortgage upfront, and then we were going to cash out, refi to a second mortgage or different mortgage. That strategy, basically, it could work, but it would totally destroy our cash flow. So, we made a decision to just leave it alone. We’re going to let that money kind of sit in the property for a while, as holding equity, and figure it out later if there’s a better time to refinance. So, it’s changing my philosophy in that way a little bit, but I’m sure it’s impacting others similarly.

[00:27:37] TU: That question actually came from Jenny, who we’ll link in the show notes. But Jenny White, we featured on the YFP Podcast Episode 148, how her and Mike got started in real estate investing. And you and David have also talked with Jenny and her husband, Mike, on the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, episode five. So, we’ll make sure to link to both of those in the show notes.

Second question is how to find white coat home loans? This question comes from Cassie. So, referring you here to Dr. Loans, pharmacist home loans, there’s different terms that are thrown out there. But quickly, Nate, what are those loans? And then information on where folks can find that?

[00:28:12] NH: Yeah, absolutely. So, there are loans that again, would typically fall into the conventional realm. But there’s different parameters out there for certain types of buyers. The ones that Cassie is referring to here are again, called professional loans or physician’s loans or pharmacist loans. The idea is that because of your profession, because of your potential of earned income, banks look at you a little bit different. They’re giving you basically some credit for the potential of your earned income. So, they’ll maybe give you a break on interest rate, or oftentimes, what we see is that they have very low-down payment options is the most common type.

We at YFP, have worked with first horizons in the past. There are many other loan officers out there, loan lenders out there that will do this type of investing or this type of lending, excuse me. But the idea is the same, where I can get a pharmacist home loan at two and a half or three and a half or 5% down only, but it has more conventional terms where I’m not paying PMI, I’m not getting hit on my interest rate, again, because of that potential earned income down the road. So, definitely worth looking at. I know we’ve got some great resources on the YFP page for accessing first horizons. And again, there are other investor or pharmacist friendly lenders out there as well.

[00:29:25] TU: Yeah, if folks want to learn more about that, you can go to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. We’ll link to that in the show notes. And typically, Nate, just to build on that a little bit is usually there’s minimum credit scores that are involved in their maximum loan amounts, so folks can look at that based on region they’re in, budget, what they’re looking at. So, another resource I’d point to is the white coat investor has a list of some of the doctor loans that are out there. Many don’t offer that to pharmacists, but some do. So, to Nate’s point, there are several options that are out there.

Our third question, Nate, comes from Ivana and she asks advice on how to interact with a realtor when relocating to a different state and seeing homes in a relatively short period of time. What are the right questions to ask during that home buying process? That’s a great question.

[00:30:09] NH: Yeah, it is. And it’s something that we actually deal with quite a bit, where you get a pharmacist that’s maybe finishing residency, for example, and then moving across country for a job, or vice versa. They’re moving from their home state, and they’re going out for residency, and hopefully a future job, and they’re looking at buying. So, it makes it really tough. I’ve done this before with other clients, and generally, the recommendation I gave is figure out first what your level of comfort is, right? So, do you need to see that property in person to feel comfortable with it? If the answer is yes, then you’re going to have to do a lot more coordination of okay, realtor, we’re going to be in town for Saturday and Sunday, I need you to set up for showings on Saturday, five on Sunday, and we’re going to just go whirlwind look at all these. Or are you going to be comfortable giving an idea to your agent of what you’re looking for, and then doing video walkthroughs or virtual walkthroughs.

So, I think stepping back and looking at your own perspective of what is my comfort level, and then finding an agent that’s going to be able to work with you at that comfort level. I think that’s super important. So, I’ve worked with clients that do both, that want to fly out, or drive out and see the properties themselves. I’ve worked with those that are like, “Hey, send me some videos, Nate, post them into a Google Doc, and I’ll look at him after I get off at work.” It’s your level of comfort. I think the questions to ask is around that level of comfort. So, if you decide one way or the other, how am I going to work with that agent within that realm that I’m looking to follow.

[00:31:29] TU: And that question is a great segue, Nate, into the YFP home buying concierge process that you lead, and we’ll link to that in the show notes, and we mentioned it in the introduction as well. Folks can go to our web page, yourfinancialpharmacist.com, click on Home Buying, find an agent, and they’ll see Nate’s face and more information about the work that he’s doing to connect individuals that are looking to purchase a home with an agent in their area that has been vetted, and that certainly aligns with what Nate talks about here on this show, and the educational strategy that he has. So, Nate, tell us about that service. I’m looking to buy a home, I’m looking for an agent, perhaps it’s a situation like Ivana, where it’s relocating to a different state, or perhaps it’s even in their area where they’re not already connected with an agent. What’s involved and how can they get connected with you?

[00:32:15] NH: Yeah, the whole goal of this service is really take the guesswork out of finding a really high quality agent. So, we’re going to go out and actually interview agents on your behalf, or we’ve worked with those agents before with other pharmacist clients. So, we can get you connected with that individual free of charge, so that you can get off and running on the right foot, and not have to worry about does this person have my best interests in mind? Are they just trying to get me to buy and move on? Right? We’re looking for people who are going to be interested in building relationships, who know how to communicate, know how to deal with the pharmacist busy schedule, and are going to listen to what your actual needs are. Not just how do I get this person to buy a house as fast as possible.

So again, the whole idea of that service is that you’re going to meet with me for 30-minute planning call, maybe even less, and we’re going to talk through things like budget. We’re going to talk through goals, must haves, answer any questions you have about the home buying process, and then we can use that information to get you connected with an agent who is going to be a really good fit for you.

The other cool thing about the services that we don’t go away, once you connect with that agent. We remain on your team. I remain on your team, so that if you’ve got questions or just want a second opinion from somebody, you know who to come back to, and you can get that from somebody who has that experience on both the pharmacist side and the real estate side. So, definitely recommend checking that out. It’s a great way. If you don’t know where to get started, it’s an awesome place to jump in.

[00:33:32] TU: And again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com. Click on Home Buying, find an agent, you’ll see more information there. And Nate, I would point folks to Episode 160, where you interviewed Bryce Platt and Shelby Bennett talking about their experience going through the home buying process with the YFP concierge service that you lead. So, folks are looking at more information on what it is, as well as other pharmacists that have had that experience and talking through that experience. Make sure to check out Episode 160 on the YFP podcast.

Nate, as always, I love having your perspective on this very important topic for the YFP community. So, thank you so much for taking time.

[00:34:06] NH: Yeah, Tim. Thanks for having me here. 

[OUTRO]

[00:34:08] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. 

Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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