The Mindset, Habits, and Behaviors of Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs
CEO of Kay Pharmacy and host of The Business Pharmacy Podcast, Mike Koelzer, joins Tim Ulbrich to discuss the mindset, habits, and behaviors of successful pharmacy influencers and entrepreneurs.
About Today’s Guest
Mike Koelzer is the host of “The Business of Pharmacy” podcast. In addition to hosting the podcast, Mike owns an independent pharmacy in Grand Rapids, Michigan. When not working, Mike enjoys spending time with his wife and 10 children, following the news, and improving his sight-reading at the piano.
Episode Summary
Today, Tim Ulbrich welcomes Mike Koelzer, CEO of Kay Pharmacy and host of The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, to the YFP Podcast to discuss lessons learned from his experiences interviewing pharmacy leaders. Mike has interviewed over 100 well-respected pharmacy influencers and entrepreneurs on his show. Today, he shares his takeaways on the mindset, habits, and behaviors of these individuals as they strive to be the best versions of themselves and create positive change in the profession of pharmacy! Mike shares some common threads his guests have in how they overcome fear and take calculated risks. You’ll get a peek into the daily habits of successful pharmacy influencers and entrepreneurs that lead to a mindset of success and whether those individuals believe that their success is attributed to luck or hard work. Hear him recount his professional pharmacy journey of more than 30 years in a family business and how he manages to balance his time while running a business, hosting a podcast, being a husband, and father to 10 children. This motivational episode is for anyone unsettled with the status quo and itching to take it to the next level personally and professionally.
Key Points From This Episode
- How the family business started.
- Hear about the creation of The Business of Pharmacy podcast.
- Mike’s approach to maximizing his time each day, and how to use lists more efficiently.
- What common threads Mike’s guests have, striving to achieve something great.
- How focus and goal-setting are like sailing.
- The amazing ways we are now able to receive feedback faster and pivot quicker.
- Mike shares some actionable advice about how to get started with any new idea.
- The general outlook most guests have on the pharmacy profession.
- Talking about luck versus hard work.
- A common thing that takes people out of just being satisfied with the status quo.
- Mike’s strong advice for those who have dreams but are struggling financially.
Highlights
“Start focusing on something. And whether it’s a day later or a week later or a month later, you see that goal changing, [and] change it.” — Mike Koelzer, PharmD [0:13:32]
“You don’t have to monetize something right away for it to be valuable for your career. Sometimes it’s just getting off of TikTok and getting off the couch and putting out valuable content instead of just reading the content.” — Mike Koelzer, PharmD [0:36:19]
“If you’re married, make that relationship the most important thing in the world to you.” — Mike, Koelzer, PharmD [0:40:50]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode
- Kay Pharmacy & Home Medical Equipment
- The Business of Pharmacy Podcast
- YFP Planning: Financial Planning for Pharmacists
- Schedule a free Discovery Call with YFP Planning
- The Business of Pharmacy Podcast: Is Pharmacy School Worth It?
- Procrastinate on Purpose: 5 Permissions to Multiply Your Time by Rory Vaden
- Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen
- How I Built This with Guy Raz
- 17 Questions That Changed My Life by Tim Ferriss
- The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss
- Start.: Punch Fear in the Face, Escape Average, and Do Work That Matters by Jon Acuff
- Tribe Of Mentors: Short Life Advice from the Best in the World by Tim Ferriss
- 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Jordan B. Peterson
- Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life by Jordan B. Peterson
- Connect with Mike Koelzer on LinkedIn
- Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures
Episode Transcript
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here. Thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.
This week, I had a chance to sit down with Mike Koelzer, CEO of Kay Pharmacy and host of The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, as Mike has interviewed over 100 well respected Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs on his show. Today, I asked Mike about the takeaways he has had, from hearing about the mindset habits and behaviors of these individuals as they strive to be the best versions of themselves and leave a positive dent in the profession of pharmacy.
This episode is for anyone, students, residents, seasoned practitioners that are unsettled with the status quo and itching to take it to the next level personally and professionally. A few of my favorite moments from the episode are hearing Mike recount his own professional journey of 30 plus years in a family business, how he manages to balance his time running a business, hosting a podcast and being a husband and father to 10 children and his takeaways from interviewing influential leaders within our profession, on how they overcome fear and take calculated risks. Their daily habits that lead to a mindset of success and how they view how much of their success has been luck versus hard work.
I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40 plus states. YFP Planning offers, fee-only high touch financial planning that is customized to the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner, may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning financial planning services are a good fit for you, we know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:01:57] TU: Mike, welcome to the show.
[00:01:59] MK: Thank you, Tim.
[00:02:00] TU: Really excited to have the opportunity to share your story with the YFP Community, as we continue on this journey of trying to feature more and more pharmacy entrepreneurs on the podcast, to highlight some of the ways that a PharmD can be used. I like to say the PharmD is the starting point. It’s not the finish line and our interview today talking about your career journey and that of other pharmacists that you have interviewed is really a great, great example of that. So Mike, before we get into some of the lessons that you’ve learned from various influencers and entrepreneurs that you’ve interviewed on The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, tell us about your career journey as a pharmacist, including the role that you have currently as CEO of Kay Pharmacy.
[00:02:42] MK: Well, as my dad would say, our business is a family business, but it runs best on having one benevolent dictator. So it’s questionable if I’m that person, but my grandpa started and my dad was there until he passed on there. I’m the only family person to speak of. I have some children that work there, but I was never a fan of going into this with my siblings. That’s part of the reason maybe why I chose pharmacists, because I came from a family of 12 children and I was down at the bottom of the children as far as age goes.
So I maybe subconsciously – once I realized that none of my siblings were going into it, and also that my dad would then be at the age where he would not be around for a long time, because it’s okay to have a partner, but if I don’t need it. And I thought that maybe five or 10 years would be enough and not a 30 year period with him. I went into pharmacy, took a while. Tim, you and I talked on my podcast about bouncing around different things. I finally got my pharmacy degree, which is a five year degree back then, in seven years, I guess. I had done a few different things in there.
So basically, I joined the family business and worked with my dad for a while till he passed away. So I’ve been running the show for the last 20 some years, where I typical corner pharmacy. I suppose that’s what pulled me out of that. Doing some of this stuff, taking advantage of social and podcasts and things to maybe break out more into the world, because I knew that my area of influence, I suppose, was fairly small in my city. I think that’s what broke me out into the internet more with the podcast.
[00:04:29] TU: My time is something I often think about as a father of four. I can’t stack up as your father-of-10. I’ve come to really appreciate with a young family that that time is finite. We all have the same amount of time available each day. I think when you stop and think about that, that we all have the same amount of time available each day. It really at least for me has changed my mindset around, how am I making the most of this day. I think for many, especially me, pharmacists that are more task-oriented, that have developed ways to become more efficient with their time so that they can complete more tasks. But I have found that that often ends up in a spiral of just more and more tasks to complete.
However, I think if there’s finding ways that we can create more time, as Rory Vaden says, and one of my favorite books Procrastinate on Purpose, doing things today that save time tomorrow, and therefore increases our time available. As someone who owns their own business, as someone who’s a father of 10 kids, hostess of a successful podcast, what has been your approach for making the most of each day and ultimately, the limited amount of time that you have?
[00:05:41] MK: Dropping a book in here early, David Allen, Getting Things Done. That was a huge book for me. What I loved about what he teaches is that, the real reason for lists, which are a very important part of my day, a very active do-list. The main reason for that is not to get things done. It’s to know what you’re not getting done exactly when you’re taking that free time to create, and whether that’s creating a podcast or exercising or practicing piano or just screwing off, but you know exactly what you’re not doing. Then when it’s time to come back and get to work, you’re ready to roll.
The do-list for me has never been so much a list of difficult things to get done or monotonous things to get done, but it’s allowed me to have that free time and those goals that I have, go right onto that list. So I have a goal every day, it says practice the piano and do this and do that. Even the fun, relaxing goals are tasks out. Again, the whole thing is not to necessarily get things done. It’s to allow that free space in your head, that creative space to do things, knowing that your important tasks will be waiting for you when you get back.
[00:07:08] TU: Absolutely right. I think there’s freedom in being able to see those things on paper, sometimes giving yourself permission to not do things, but also to make sure you’ve got the right things prioritize as well. I know for me, and it sounds largely for you as well, like getting that out of our head onto paper, so we can start to see it and prioritize it as well.
Mike, as you mentioned, I recently came on your show Business Pharmacy Podcast, we’ll link to that in the show notes, to talk about the ROI of the PharmD. Great discussion. After doing that recording, I was reflecting on all of the movers, shakers and entrepreneurs in pharmacy that you have interviewed and the insights that you must have to share from those conversations, being an aggregator of some great minds. 135 episodes at the time of this recording that you’ve done. So first of all, congratulations, you know that’s no small feat. That’s really awesome. So I’m going to use this episode to pick your brain about the lessons learned from being in the interviewer seat talking with some of the great minds in our profession.
So for those that are familiar with the How I Built This podcast and book by Guy Raz from NPR. I view Mike as the Guy Raz in pharmacy, who has had not only his own experiences to draw from, but a lot of insights that he’s gained from picking the minds of lots of folks that we can certainly all learn from. Some of the individuals you’ve interviewed, Mike, are folks that own their own business. Others don’t, but the thread that I see is folks that are on a mission to achieve something great, that likely aligns with a strong vision that they have and a personal why and motivation for the work that they’re doing.
So one of my passions, is trying to understand what makes folks tick. And today, we’re going to get your viewpoint on that with some of the folks that you have interviewed. So first question out of the gate, since we talked about education on your podcast, in the ROI of the Pharmacy Degree, what threads if any, do you see in the folks that you’ve interviewed? Some of these that we would consider to be movers and shakers, pushing the envelope and the professional pharmacy, threads that you see and their view on education, either the background of getting education formal or even on their philosophy of continuous learning and professional development?
[00:09:20] MK: I guess, I’ve never seen a real strong emphasis on a certain degree or getting a certain amount of education or getting a certain degree. I think the value that I’ve seen from my guests, and a lot of them are PhDs and PharmDs of course and across the board, attorneys and so on. I think, the value I’ve seen in them has been that they are goal-oriented people and that’s what college has done for them. And advanced degrees, that they’re goal-oriented. That shows I think, that’s the, whether it’s the chicken or the egg, but I think when you see that degree, you’ve seen a purposeful goal that they’ve done.
I think the other thing it shows is, besides just a goal, I think it shows that they’re able to niche down to the market and they’re able to focus. I think that’s been very important too and in fact, when I look for guests, so out of the hundred and some guests, my listeners don’t want to hear just about a good pharmacist, even though a good pharmacist is of course, very important. I know the most interesting guest and I know the listeners, and I always think about what am I going to title this show. I can’t just title a show A Good Pharmacist, I have to for the purpose of the show notes or not the show notes, but the title, I have to say, this is what we’re talking about. This is the niche. This is the goal of the show.
I think that all of my guests, and I think the one the guests that I’ve been attracted to, to get on the show have always been in their schooling, in their job, even coming on the show. There’s always been that focus to that niche and to that point and to that goal, and I think that’s probably the overall personality I’ve seen of everybody in the show has been niching down, going for a goal, moving forward, pointing towards a target that target might switch, but it’s pointing towards a target.
[00:11:45] TU: You mentioned focus, Mike which I recently read something from Tim Ferriss, he’s got a great, short PDF document, we’ll link to in the show notes called 17 Questions That Changed My Life or questions that he asked himself at various pivot points in his life. One of those which I like to think about, and I’m going to ask you about, what you maybe have heard from other folks in terms of focus. One of those questions is, if I could only work two hours per week on my business or in some cases within my organization, what would I be doing with that two hours? Now, of course, it’s intentionally dramatic, right? To get us thinking about the most prioritized, focus, valuable use of our time that has a greatest return on investment.
As you mentioned, some of these folks that have a strong ability to focus, what do you think these folks would decide in terms of distilling down the time available and prioritizing the tasks that are most important to them and the work that they’re doing?
[00:12:42] MK: Here’s the problem with focus, Tim, is that when we focus, it’s like it’d be easy for the naysayer to say, “Yeah, but what if you’re making the wrong focus? What if you’re going down the wrong path?” I don’t see it that way. I see that – it may be cliched, but I see it as getting onto a boat, you can sit there on shore forever and say “What if I’m steering in the wrong direction?” It’s like, “Yeah, fair enough.” You might go in the wrong direction if you get on the boat and start steering, but if you don’t, you’re just going to be sitting on the shore forever.
I’m always thinking, get on the boat, push off, show yourself that you know how to sail, show yourself that you’re able to leave the confidence of the shore and start going somewhere. Start focusing on something, and whether it’s a day later or a week later or a month later, you see that goal changing, change it. I’m a big fan of Jordan Peterson, a psychologist online and his rule of thumb is, make a goal and if you find out that you want to switch to that goal, ask yourself this one question, “Am I switching to something easier or maybe to something even more focused and more challenging?”
If it’s something easier, well maybe you just have to rethink the purpose of goal setting and go back and reevaluate why you’re maybe not able to set a goal. But if it’s something more focused and more difficult, that’s probably a good sign. I think the main thing I’ve seen from a lot of my guests is, I think it’d be hard for me to maybe say what do they do for two hours of day that’s very valuable for them. I think more generally, I can say they all seem not only goal focus, but they’re moving and they’re willing to pivot not to something easier but to something harder.
[00:14:37] TU: You’re willing to take action, willing to step into it, right? Willing to have to pivot. I think all of those are great things and when you mentioned get in the boat, right? Get in the boat start sailing. I think that’s just great, great wisdom. I read several years ago at the very beginning of my journey, starting YFP, Start by Jon Acuff and that was the book that really just sent me over the edge of like. I was very much and always been an idea person, but quickly the objections might come in the fears, the risks, what’s this going to look in five years? What about this? It was like, enough. Just get started.
That’s the advice I give to folks often to have an idea, business within the organization side hustle, whatever. What is really the true risk? Let’s evaluate that, let’s put it on the table, let’s call it what it is, typically is not as big as we may build it up to be in our mind. Then let’s take a step forward without getting paralyzed in what this may or may not look like 12 months from now, because you and I both know that I could do my best to predict what YFP is going to look in 12 months in terms of both the challenges and successes. Some of it I have right and a bunch of things I could never predict.
[00:15:42] MK: It’s amazing, Tim. I tell my kids this all the time. It’s amazing the world we’re in right now, because even 20 years ago, if you had a business idea, especially if it was like a retail business idea. I mean, you’ve got maybe a business plan in your head, maybe a dream, but then you have to go rent the brick-and-mortar and buy the cash register and buy the sign and do all this stuff. Then harkening back to Tim Ferriss, in his Four Hour Workweek book, he talks about the beauty of like A/B Testing on Google, for example. You can even do it more easily now on social by just putting out a post, just writing a little article on LinkedIn, and maybe putting two of them out there a week apart in whichever one gets more thumbs up or more comments.
It’s like, “Oh, maybe the world needs more of this.” You focus and things like that and Boy, and as far as the actual technical part of it, you can buy 10 different URLs for a total of $20 for the first year trial or something that, and see which one gain some attraction, just an amazing time. As far as switching goals and pivoting and so on, we’ve never had a time like this in history where you could have those dreams and goals get feedback so easily, and then change direction. I’m not saying you should do it this fast, but you could change direction within 24 hours.
[00:17:14] TU: You’re spot on, Mike. I think the asterisk there is that, we can either look at that half-full, as we live in a time with no greater opportunity to do many of the things that you just mentioned to learn, anything that we want, right? Which wasn’t afforded at the same level and degree generations before us, but also there’s an infinite amount of material of things that we can digest. And to your common a focus that can be overwhelming and paralyzing, if we can’t distill it down and figure out what we’re going to be doing.
So that paralysis by analysis definitely can happen. Social media could be a good example. Mike you mentioned, some of these folks having an ability of what I heard, set goals, certainly an ability to get started on their journey, even if the end is not fully scripted or they’re not aware. You mentioned focus, are there other habits, disciplines that you have noticed in these folks that those listening could draw from of, these are some of the rhythms, these are some of the trends, these are some of the behaviors of these folks that might put them in the right mindset, to then be able to do some of those things of setting big goals and focusing and moving towards your vision?
[00:18:26] MK: I guess, one of the things that I see, and sometimes this can be taken to an extreme of faking it till you make it, but one of the things on the goal setting and what I’ve seen a lot of the guests do, it seems to me is it’s easy now, because we’re all with the internet and with social media. We’re all our own media company right now. So a lot of the people that have the goals, and I say this to my own team at the pharmacy, it’s like we’ve got the idea for this and on a small scale, I’m like, “All right, write up the procedure of what that would look like in real life, if we went down this road?” And quite often looking at it negatively, quite often they might say, “Yeah, we started writing this, we realize how in the hell would we – how can we check this for quality control or how could this happen?” It’s like, “Yeah. Well, I figured that, but I wanted you to see it on your own.”
On the positive note, how easy is it to go in and have this idea for something, whether it’s a business or whether it’s a personal goal of whatever, learning how to play tennis or something like that. But how easy is it to say, “Well, let’s picture this down the road and for the business part, maybe we make a website.” It’s not going to be published, just make it, just see if that works and make a sign up form online, just start picturing what this looks like, what this success would look like. Even before you have to take it to the market and get A/B testing across a real world, just in your own head.
I think the point on that is, it’s okay to have a goal, it’s okay to have thoughts, but move forward even if you’re not moving forward into the world at least move forward on your own damn computer by making a fake web page and making a fake whatever. I think that’s important. Along that same vein would be start writing. Start writing a book, start writing an article, go on LinkedIn, write an article. Anytime you’re doing that and you’re able to take those words out of your head and put them into paper, that’s a great thing.
It’s not great only for the world potentially and rarely it is, because how many of us are going to be, well besides yourself Tim, how many of us are going to be famous, well paid authors. That’s not the point. The point is can you get it onto paper and sometimes that is indicative of whether it’s just a dream up there or it’s something that could actually happen someday.
[00:21:09] TU: Mike, I think that’s really great advice and something that I’ve fallen into, but haven’t thought about as intentionally as you just described there. But whether it’s drafting a webpage, right, beating up a procedure and writing it out, getting some writing on paper, even if you don’t share that. I mean, I would encourage folks to share it, I think it would stimulate good conversation, but as you were talking it made me think of the importance that does in a few areas. One, it helps you to begin to validate the idea, right? Whether you get feedback on that or not but just because you’re going to start to develop it a little bit further.
The other thing is, it’s going to really help you start to beat up the idea that I have found when I do activities like that. I start to continue to think about it all throughout the day, right? To your comment earlier about goal setting, getting things down on paper, we get that out of our head, and we can start to see it for what it is and really take it to the next level to try to figure out, is there something here is there not. And I have found that when I start to do that, one of two things usually happens, either I can’t let the idea go for days, weeks, months, that’s a good sign, right? In terms of some of the energy passion or I put it down and I’m like, “Oh, my gosh. What was I thinking right?” As you start to flesh that out further and giving yourself some space to do that and start to see it, to play out. Love that, great stuff.
[00:22:31] MK: That’s quite often why I’ve heard it said that, as humans, if we were in solitary confinement or not able to see other humans, sometimes it would make you go crazy, literally crazy, because other humans are the way that, when you say something – if I say something crazy and I see someone’s face go into shock, it’s like, “Oh, I went too far in the human race” or “I guess I’m not stepping outside of what it means to be a decent person” and so on. I think that writing can do that too, because maybe you don’t have someone across from you listening to your three hour thesis on your new business, but just getting it down on paper, it forces yourself to get this fake, like another person even though it’s just the paper against yourself, but it forces you to say, I can’t even write anything on this. This must not make sense.
[00:23:24] TU: Then to distill it down, right? I think at least from my experiences, I tend to be very long-winded whether I communicate that externally, only to myself when I put something on paper, and then you start to say, “Okay, what’s the two or three –” taking a play from Steve Jobs, “What are the three things that folks need to take away from this? Have I clearly and succinctly and effectively communicated that?”
[00:23:46] MK: For sure.
[00:23:47] TU: Often I find that I don’t, right? That’s part of that process of doing that.
[00:23:51] MK: Yeah. If you can’t do that in yourself, how is the world going to listen to you through a real quick – social media scroll or a short blip online or something like that.
[00:24:02] TU: Mike, outlook of the profession, I think we’re at a time period – I have only been in the profession, started school in 2002, graduate in 2008. I certainly have seen in my short career, I would say some of the shift in the optimism of the future, the profession and what folks are looking at in terms of 10, 15, 20 years from now, some of the threats, some of the challenges around debt loads and salaries.
So I think we’re at this place where, when I talk with pharmacists, there tends to be a half glass, full half glass, empty feeling. Either that gloom and doom of, it’s inevitable things we talked about in your show Automation Technology, other providers coming into the space, writing’s on the wall, the challenges that we have, especially if we look at certain segments of the profession. Then I’ve been a part of many groups, organizations, associations and conversations with thought leaders that it’s very much they look at this as, “Yeah, those are real challenges, but that means it’s ripe for opportunity, disruption and innovation.” I’m curious from your viewpoint of interviewing some of these folks on your show, what is generally the outlook that they have on the profession of pharmacy?
[00:25:14] MK: Well, of course, Tim. I’m inviting people on that have typically their own goal or individual forward thinking goal inside of the profession. I’m the person that gets to sit on there and gripe about stuff. I don’t want to just have someone on there that just a general griper. As you and I talked a bit on our episode on, when we talked on my podcast, I think that anybody, going into any profession, whether it’s an architect or an attorney or whatever it is, I think anybody should go in saying, “I’ve got this idea that I want to get my degree and then do this novel thing or I want to invent this or I want to conquer the world with this goal.”
Now, is that going to happen? It doesn’t matter, in my mind, it doesn’t matter if that individual goal, but I think it shows somebody coming into a profession especially one that’s a lot of the money in there is paid by a third party where you’ve got someone else like pushing you down with their thumb, but when you go into a profession, when you’re an 18, or 20 year old, you want to go in with the idea that you want to change the world with something that 95% of that profession are not doing. I think what that does is, if that never happens, but at least it shows that you’re going in, that knowing that you’re not just going to be the status quo of the rest of the profession. Also, you do have a dream and if maybe that goal doesn’t work out with that degree, it shows the person you are that you are able to set goals and pivot and things like that.
The actual profession of pharmacy, it’s like, I’m an old guy that seen a lot of negative stuff in the profession, but the people that I’ve talked to, are the ones that are moving forward and doing things with a lot of success. But you’ve got to have that mindset. It’s not just going to come at you. You’ve got to be the person that we talked about from the beginning of this show, with these goals and ideas and fortitude and all that kind of stuff.
[00:27:33] TU: Yeah. I love what you shared there. We talked a little bit on your show as well. That idea of are you entering the profession with the expectation that you’re going to perhaps change, evolve, add something new, different and not entering into the status quo. That is a totally different mindset. Granted, I’ll give myself a little bit of grace, I went into the profession at 18, but as I think about how fast things are changing in our society, but in the profession of pharmacy as well, if you go in, it’s just such great advice, because if you go in with the mindset of entering into something status quo, and you’ve got 60 years to get to that finish line, maybe two more years if there’s additional training, like wow, that’s going to change, right? Even in that short period of time.
[00:28:19] MK: Right.
[00:28:20] TU: Mike, one of Guy Raz’s questions that he asks of every entrepreneur on How I Built This, and I just love hearing the variety of answers and how folks look at this, is how much of your success would you tribute to luck versus hard work? Luck versus hard work? So when you’ve interviewed these folks and I’m not asking if you’ve asked this question specifically, but just your perception of these individuals, the positions that they’ve been in, the success that they’ve had, the momentum, the mindset. How do you think they would respond to that question of how much of their success is luck versus hard work?
[00:28:57] MK: That’s a difficult question, because I think there’s always a sense of false humility in people. I think the natural first answer would be say, “Oh, it’s a lot of luck.” I think that people would say that to look good to cover the bases, then I think they would say, “Have been a hell of a lot of work into this.” Look around, no one else is doing it, I suppose. I look at myself, I think of, I wouldn’t be where I was without my grandpa and dad being in the business. That was luck of the draw. Then I guess what I would say for myself is that’s where the podcast has been a lot of fun for me, because that’s still luck in itself of having social media not having the middleman pushing you down, like the old TV networks, always had that middle person in that.
I guess, I would look around what I’ve done and say, “Oh, yeah. The podcast, maybe after 40 years in the industry.” Oh, yeah. The last year, that’s been hard work that got me above because I look at all my comrades. I said, “No one else did this.” It’s like, “Ah, okay. I’ll take a little bit of that.” I think most of the people that I would interview, I would think that a lot of luck, a lot of family status, how they were born, all those thing probably goes into saying, “Yeah, that helped me get my education and this and that.” I think most of them would probably say, “Yeah, but I did something pretty cool to get this going.” Whether it was, whatever the reason, I think at that point, they would say, that’s maybe where the hard work was, and maybe getting to the status quo was a lot of hard work, but also a lot of luck getting there.
[00:30:45] TU: Yeah. That’s right. Building on the status quo concept, I’m curious of your thoughts, individually in your own career or what you’ve heard from other folks. What takes someone over the edge of just being satisfied with the status quo and playing it safe? I’m thinking about how have these individuals or yourself address their own fears about failure, about not being significant enough, about not being able to achieve a goal and then had made a decision to take some calculated risk that moves beyond the position of status quo? What are your thoughts there?
[00:31:21] MK: I would probably say that almost everybody I have interviewed has built what they have from an area of pain, whether they think it’s their own failed goals in their day to day business or whether they think someone screwed them over. I think that pain has pushed all of these people to where they are. I think there’s a lot of beauty that comes from that pain, because without that pain, you would have probably been at status quo, which might have been okay, but maybe not see the joy in some of these people’s eyes.
I know, for me, if it wasn’t the PBMs and all the problems with stuff and all this, I wouldn’t have done my podcast, let’s say that was a mini goal of mine. I wouldn’t have done that, because I would have been so busy, I would have been content, I would have been all that. I think probably if you look back across history, to all the explorers and everybody who’s either found a country or found a business, it probably started with some pain.
[00:32:19] TU: Mike, speaking of pain. Financial pain is top of mind for me, not only my own journey, but what I see in our community of some of the stress that that can cause and one’s ability to be able to achieve their full potential and the goals that they have. So I think lots listening might get enthused by this conversation, but fairly quickly start to think of the objections to why they, themselves can’t take some calculated risks.
Of course, the one again, I’m interested in here is the financial aspect, but could be met many other objections as well. As I mentioned, on your show a lot of good ideas and dreams die with financial stress. I believe that wholeheartedly. So what would you say to the folks listening that are like, “Mike, I’ve got an idea. I’m excited about something not exactly sure where it’s going to go.” If you’re really passionate about doing X, Y, or Z, “But Mike, I’m behind retirement savings. Mike, I’ve got $200,000 of student loan debt. Mike, I’ve got a young family and all the expenses that come with that. Mike, I’m taking care of my elderly parents while also trying to take care of my children.” How do you reconcile that?
[00:33:27] MK: I would say you’ve got to play both sides of that. You’ve got to go to work from nine to five, come home, have dinner with the family, read to your kids, give him a bath, put him to bed. Then you’ve got from 10 PM until 1 AM, to make that work, as we talked earlier, what a great time. I mean, you can, you’ve got your own production studio at your home and no complaints, because the dog sleeping and the kids are in bed and all that stuff and the wife’s watching Hallmark movies on TV. I mean, that’s your time.
So there’s no better time. I don’t think there’s any excuse to not do that. The better part of it is, we just talked about that. It’s like you don’t want to do what they did in the past of selling everything, so you could buy a brick-and-mortar and open up a shop and buy a sign and all the stuff that goes along with that. You don’t want that, because then you can’t pivot. There’s never been a better time for people to put in their two or three hours, hopefully, it’s something that they would enjoy too, but that can all be done and I think there’s never a better time for that, to try these things out.
[00:34:43] TU: Yeah. Mike, I found personally, when I feel stuck, when I start giving myself excuses as to why I can’t do something when I come up with a list of objections. I usually go back to that means, my ‘why’ envision is not strong enough. It’s not compelling enough or it is but I need to remind myself have that. Maybe that resonates with folks, maybe it doesn’t, but I would encourage folks, if you feel stuck and again I’m not suggesting that everyone should go out and start their own business.
I think, there’s many opportunities to obviously be the best that you can within your position to create to innovate, to move things forward, rather than just showing up and going through the motions. But if you feel stuck, if you feel there’s objections that are coming to the mind, if there’s excuses that are there, is your vision, is your why strong enough? I just think that’s something I try to reflect on often.
[00:35:33] MK: Yeah. I think, there’s a lot of things you can do that you don’t necessarily monetize that can very much help that end goal of your finances down the road. I mean, for example, I haven’t monetized my podcast at this point yet, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a financial value. Because let’s say, God forbid that I lose the store tomorrow or something happens or I choose to go to the store tomorrow.
Now, I’ve talked to 135 people and one of them being you, Tim. Not only have I talked to them, they’ve spent a couple hours with me. I’ve sent emails back and forth and this and that, the same with whether it’s writing an article or doing whatever online. You don’t have to monetize something right away for it to be valuable for your career. Sometimes it’s just getting off of TikTok and getting off the couch and putting out valuable content instead of just reading the content.
[00:36:34] TU: Yeah. Back to your comment earlier, even if it means just opening up a Google doc on your screen and not hitting publish yet. Don’t underestimate the energy that comes from sitting down, getting your thoughts on paper, beating him up and the momentum and compound effect that, that can have over time. Mike, I’m going to put you on the hot seat with some of my favorite questions and rapid fire style from Tim Ferriss book, Tribe of Mentors. You ready for this?
[00:37:00] MK: All set.
[00:37:01] TU: All right.
[00:37:02] MK: Born ready.
[00:37:04] TU: What is the book that you’ve recommended most are given as a gift and why is that the case?
[00:37:11] MK: I already talked about it, Getting Things Done by David Allen. It lets you create the free space in your head. You can be creative and get out of the mundane tasks that would typically overwhelm somebody.
[00:37:25] TU: I want to come back to you, you mentioned Jordan Peterson, is there something specific you like of his work or follow?
[00:37:31] MK: Jordan Peterson, there’s two books I would recommend. One is his, 12 Rules for Life. Then his second book is basically another 12 rules. Jordan spends a lot of time talking about something. He’s a psychologist, psychiatrist. One of the things I love most about Jordan Peterson, he spends a lot of time talking about the division or that step between chaos and order. There’s a beautiful line between chaos and order where I love to live.
You know what it is, it’s either, you’re either bored at work, some people are bored at work or there’s too much to do at work, but there’s this really sweet line in the middle, whether it’s work or hobby or something like that, where you get lost in time a little bit. That’s where it’s just a sweet spot and that’s where we want to live. That’s what I love so much about him, is just that line between order and chaos and sweet line that really makes life interesting. He’s a huge influence of mine or a huge influence to me, I should say.
[00:38:38] TU: Yeah. No, that’s good. Failure is, there’s a specific favorite failure of yours?
[00:38:45] MK: My biggest failure, if I could look back, was saying that I spent too much time worrying, too much anxious time. That doesn’t necessarily go away just by effort. It goes away, maybe by professional help and maybe goes away with medication and it goes away with a lot of reading and things that. So I don’t know if I’d call it a failure, but I’d call it my biggest cross. I think that, I’m turning it into some beautiful things and I still hope to, but I’ve spent too much time in my head and not always enough time present.
[00:39:36] TU: Mike, that’s really reassuring. As a young father, that’s something I’ve identified early in my career is the difficulty I have with presence. I’ve just realized our last five years through talking more of this out loud, reading coaches and others, one being aware of it and then two taking baby steps to move things in a different direction, but really uncovering that and making it a priority. Really appreciate you mentioned in the beauty that you’re turning that into.
[00:40:05] MK: Yeah. That’s not all. I mean, it’s not your fault. I mean, when you’re with your family but away from them mentally, you’ve got a lot of stress on you and you’re basically trading that current time for the future. You’re thinking about how are you going to whatever, feed your family or at least deal with a situation that ultimately is maybe you don’t dealing with someone ultimately, it’s because there may be in the way of taking care of your family and things. It’s not something that you have to beat yourself up over, but it is something that’s been my biggest cross.
[00:40:37] TU: Mike, if you get a gigantic billboard, anywhere, with anything on it, metaphorically speaking, getting a message out to millions or billions of people, what would it say and why?
[00:40:48] MK: I probably say, it would say, if you’re married, make that relationship the most important thing in the world to you. I’ll start there, because a lot of people – if you’re not married, stealing from Jordan Peterson, I would say clean your room. Get your room cleaned up. If you are married, I would say make that relationship the primary thought on your mind at all times, because it’s easy to save the world as you’re stepping over a bunch of crap around your bedroom. You can’t even get that cleaned up. It’s easy to save the world when your wife and or your husband and you are – when that relationship doesn’t mean much to you. I would say, I would say a billboard would say “Work on your marriage.”
[00:41:34] TU: Clean up your room. I love that too. That’s a great plot to be thinking about. Last one here, Mike. When you feel overwhelmed, unfocused, again, you’ve got a lot of different things going on or even have lost your focus temporarily. What are some things that you do to get back on track?
[00:41:48] MK: Probably the biggest thing is always getting everything on my one do-list, computerized do-list. So it doesn’t happen too often, but when things are really flustered, the first thing I do is collect all my thoughts, all my papers, all my whatever, it all goes on the list. Until it’s on the list, then you can start to prioritize, you see what’s important, doesn’t keep going through your head. It’s all in that list and then you can say, all right, my world is right there. Let’s take a look at it. That can happen through, you can have a crazy hour at work, you got to get back to your list. A crazy week got to get back to your list, hopefully not a crazy year, but if you do, you get back to your list. At least look in one spot for everything and then you can go from there.
[00:42:35] TU: We’re going to link, you’ve mentioned it a few times now, Getting Things Done. We’ll link to that book in the show note, as clearly that work by David Allen has had a really important impact on you. Mike, this has been great, really appreciate the conversation, the work that you’re doing at The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, the work that you’re doing for our profession, and really being a microphone to bringing the voice of many different leaders and influencers and making that available to other folks. So number one, thank you. Number two, where is the best place that our listeners can go to learn more about you and the work that you’re doing?
[00:43:06] MK: I would just say on LinkedIn. Just my name on LinkedIn, that’ll take you to my thing. I’ve got stuff on there. I guess the official probably going to my podcast. I have a URL, but basically look up, The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, and I’d be fun to have people join in there too.
[00:43:24] TU: Awesome. We’ll link to your LinkedIn as well as The Business of Pharmacy Podcast in the show notes. Thanks so much again, Mike.
[00:43:30] MK: My pleasure, Tim. Thanks for all you’re doing.
[OUTRO]
[00:43:31] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.
Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date publish. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.
For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.
[END]
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