January 2022 – Your Financial Pharmacist

YFP 240: How & Why This Pharmacist Started a Business in the Middle of the Pandemic

Posted on by yfpadmin

How & Why This Pharmacist Started a Business in the Middle of the Pandemic

Dr. DeLon Canterbury recounts how early setbacks motivated him to start a business in the middle of a pandemic and how his personal ‘why’ shaped the work he is doing to help solve the problem of mismanaged medications in the senior population.

About Today’s Guest

Dr. DeLon Canterbury is the CEO/Founder of GeriatRx which specializes in Pharmacogenomics, Medication Deprescribing, and Health Cost Savings for providers, caregivers, and patients. DeLon was fired in the height of COVID, and took this opportunity to pursue his passion for patient advocacy and empowerment while battling for health equity by addressing social barriers to care. GeriatRx has saved our patients well over $150,000 within its first year while keeping loved ones from being involuntarily committed into a nursing home!

Episode Summary

The senior population is a group that is often left to the wayside when it comes to healthcare, fraught with duplicate therapies, errors, and cost barrier issues that may be avoided with adequate knowledge and care. Dr. DeLon Canterbury, founder and CEO of GeriatRx, is a pharmacy entrepreneur who has made it his mission to help solve the multibillion-dollar problem of mismanaged medications that lead to preventable deaths in the older population. This week, Tim Ulbrich sits down with DeLon as he recounts his professional setbacks as a new practitioner, how those setbacks motivated him to start and lead a business, and why he decided that the middle of a pandemic was a good time to begin a new business venture. DeLon shares how his personal and professional ‘Why’ has shaped the work that he is doing at GeriatRx plus a few stories that exemplify the need for this type of senior care. You’ll hear how DeLon came to the position of strength financially, able to start his own business, and some apt and inspiring advice for fellow pharmacists who have a seed of an idea but no idea how to move forward with it.

Key Points From This Episode

How DeLon’s love of medicine was inspired by his mother’s expertise in herbology.
What moved him to get his Board Certified Geriatric Pharmacy degree.
The recognizable dark road that almost led him out of the profession.
How the experience of not getting into residency turned out to be a blessing in disguise.
How DeLon’s involvement with community helped him learn to lead by service.
The pivot point that reinvigorated his passion for pharmacy.
The power of patient advocacy and teaching patients to advocate for themselves.
About his work with a local nonprofit for older patients and what services they provide.
Hear about the care GeriatRx provides, from advocacy to deprescribing methods.
DeLon’s moving story of his ‘Why’ and becoming the voice for caregivers and patients.
Some of the groups he works with and their incredible service to underserved people.
A story of being an expert medical witness and the ugly part of families and elderly care.
Getting into the finances; how he got the capital to create this business.
Learning to articulate his value when he was starting out.
DeLon shares some great entrepreneurship advice for his fellow pharmacists out there.

Highlights

“Being in a pharmacy is not just pushing scripts, you’re literally learning how to motivate, energize, drive goals, and bring the best out of others.” — Dr. DeLon Canterbury [0:10:40]

“Truly teaching a culture of how patients can advocate for themselves can honestly improve health outcomes and build their confidence and trust in you, [not just] as a pharmacist but in the system.” — Dr. DeLon Canterbury [0:13:23]

“Our seniors are grossly overmedicated and we waste nearly $528 billion a year on mismanaged medications. That equates to nearly 275,000 people that die each year due to drug-related adverse events. Unfortunately, our seniors are the most susceptible to these numbers.” — Dr. DeLon Canterbury [0:17:44]

“It’s been such a blessing to know that I can be relied on and give a talk or give a presentation and empower people with the knowledge of a pharmacist but also show how versatile our roles can be in this profession.” — Dr. DeLon Canterbury [0:26:40]

“I learned that in business, capital is supposed to be fluid. Yes, you want to put some, pay yourself, put some in the business but your money is meant to help you make more money.” — Dr. DeLon Canterbury [0:38:06]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:00.4] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrick here and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I had a chance to sit down with Dr. DeLon Canterbury, founder and CEO of GeriatRx. A few of my favorite moments from this episode are hearing DeLon recount his professional setbacks as a new practitioner and how those motivated him in his journey to start and lead a business, why he decided that the middle of a pandemic was a good time to start this business and how his personal and professional “why” has shaped the work that he is doing at GeriatRx and his mission to help solve the multibillion dollar problem of mismanaged medications that lead to preventable deaths in the senior population.

Before we hear from today’s sponsor and then jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 household in 40 plus states. YFP planning offers fee only, high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com.

Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:01:26.8] TU: DeLon, welcome to the show.

[0:01:28.5] DC: Hey Tim, appreciate you having me on. Thanks so much, how are you doing?

[0:01:32.8] TU: I am well, it’s a great day here in Ohio, I’m excited to have the opportunity to share your story with the YFP community as we continue on this journey of featuring more and more pharmacy entrepreneurs. To highlight the various ways of PharmD can be used, as I’ve said before on the show, the PharmD in my opinion is just the starting point and I hope this story with DeLon is a great example of that and I’m hopeful for those that are listening, it will provide some motivation and inspiration.

DeLon, before we get into the why and what of the work that you’re doing as the CEO and founder of GeriatRx, tell us more about your decision to enter pharmacy school, the profession and what you’ve been up to since graduating from UNC?

[0:02:14.3] DC: Yeah man, I would love to. You know, my family, they’re actually from the Caribbean so my parents are Guyanese and when we grew up in Brooklyn, they came as immigrants in the 80s. You know, a lot of my family members would use herbal products and remedies to treat common colds or constipation and we generally call them bitters and we would just boil a bunch of tea pods and we would feel better even though it tasted gross.

My mom became this master herbologist, I don’t know how she did it but she grew up with all of these plants in our backyard. She got very used to knowing what to use and which plant and what situation, what indication. For the most part, they seemed to work, you know? We lived off of Tiger Balm and Vicks and these bitters that we would drink to purify the blood. That got me super interested in the world of medicine and healing and knowing the science behind these plants that lead to the drugs that we have today.

Try to get that nerdy side of how can I use this ability to understand, you know, the science and chemicals to treat and heal was what grew me to pharmacy. That background I attribute a lot of it to her and then of course, it does help to actually be good at chemistry and some of the math, but what I like the most about pharmacy before I got into UNC was really just the ability to know what all the drugs are doing.

I mean, it’s simple and plain but that was the best part of it, and it affirmed that if I can use this power to heal then this has to be my journey.

[0:03:57.0] TU: You graduate from UNC in 2014, here we are in 2022 and we’re going to talk about the business and the work that you’re doing with GeriatRx but of course, we got that time in between, 2014 and current state. Tell us more about goals when you are leaving pharmacy school and some of the initial work that you were doing as a new practitioner.

[0:04:17.7] DC: For sure, I was heavily interested in becoming an MPH PGY2 to work in the public health sector as a pharmacist and so I was interested in admin residencies, I was interested in being an administrator in a hospital setting. But unfortunately, I did not match. I mean, I had some stellar interviews and it took some final rounds here and there but no, nothing really matched for me and this was while I was working as a grad intern with Walgreens because I worked there for a year prior.

Here I am, literally at Walgreens, filling some scripts on a busy day and I get the email saying, “You did not match on match day” and I’m like, “Oh damn, this is – I’m stuck here, I’ve been trying to escape.” I was mad for a couple of days, got some drinks and realized, “Well, if this is what God has in plan for me then hey, I’m just going to keep doing it.”

Lo and behold, after what, six months of floating all over North Carolina, I was promoted to a pharmacy manager. This was back in 2015, 2014 in a really quick amount of time in Henderson North Carolina. I was there for about two and a half years and was able to move the metrics, was able to drive a team and meet goals but after a while, it got a little bit taxing on my mental state and in particularly in this high volume, high traffic store, it was rural, I had pretty much 50% geriatric patients.

That was some majority population there but in addition to that, you can see some of the health disparities among my Latino black patients, as well as my elderly geriatric patients and they’re the ones that had the most duplicate therapies, errors, cost barrier issues that all could have been avoided with just a switch of a drug and that got me thinking, one, I don’t know a thing about geriatric pharmacy at all. I went back, I said, “All right, let me get this credential because I want to learn more to better serve my patients.” I did that on my own time but –

[0:06:34.7] TU: Was that the CGP or –

[0:06:36.6] DC: Yeah, it was the CGP, Board Certified Geriatric Pharmacy degree. I got that in 2017, took me about two, three years to get it but truth be told man, the retail setting, you kept seeing the same thing day in, day out. Here we are taking care of people for metrics. That really isn’t taking care of people. It’s just what your boss want you to do and it doesn’t align with you and your spirit really as a pharmacist, it’s now what you came to school for.

We’re not here to be glorified cashiers and I’m not condescending anyone in the field, but that’s how we were perceived and unfortunately, you kept seeing the same issues with not just med errors but just the broken healthcare system as a whole. I mean, majority of care is at the urgent care in this small town. It’s like, those are the majority of your scripts and you start wondering, there’s got to be a better way.

If the one family doctor dies in town, half of the people are in turmoil, they’ve seen this one doctor for years and years and they had to rely on other sources, and it becomes a bit of a nightmare. And this is where we had to survive in that store, but lo and behold man, this journey got me down a really dark road. A dark road of not just chronic anxiety but literally just depression as a whole.

I mean, went in, was just super robotic, I would put on a face for my team but deep down, I hated every moment of my life, every second, every day. The one or few times you get that patient that says, “Thank you so much for being here.” It warms your day, it will always warm your day, you’re here for your patients. But it does not compare to the metrics, the pips, the disciplinary actions, the “You missed your flu shot by goal by five, so no pizza for you.” #pizzanotworking.

It doesn’t have to be this way and I felt, as a whole, I lost my soul in the pharmacy profession.

[0:08:34.8] TU: We’re going to come back to that because when you shared that with me DeLon, “I lost my soul in the pharmacy profession,” that idea of falling out of love with the profession, right? We all went into the profession with some aspirations, you know, personally and professionally, but also that love for, how can we better serve our patients and community?

I think for many listening, an opportunity to reinvigorate, reflect upon that love for the profession, it’s a great time to be doing that as we hear your story. I want to go back though, as you reflect back on your journey of not getting into residency and you mentioned potentially of the MPH advance programs, PDUI1 PDUI2 admin master types of program.

These are very intense, well-defined career paths and if you would have gotten into those programs, you know, I think for many, that script is written to director of pharmacy, chief pharmacy officer. And DeLon might be doing something very different and obviously, that didn’t go that path and led to the business opportunity.

As you look back on that journey of not getting into residency, what many students listening might consider their top and most important short-term professional goal? How did that experience – perhaps in the moment, leading to an illusion of failure but how did that experience help shape you as a person and ultimately as a business owner?

[0:09:52.9] DC: Oh my gosh, look, I can easily say, I was pretty darn depressed about that too and I mean, I was so confident. They were like, “Oh my god, here’s my cell, I’ll call you and speak and just ask anything, we want to see you in the future.” It was like, almost intentional how much they were like, “Oh yeah, we’ll see you soon” you know? When people give you that assurance and it was just crickets and it’s like, “Nah, bro, you’re not it.”

That was heartbreaking man, it killed my ego, killed my confidence a little bit, but man, I cannot overstate how much I learned about being an actual manager, being an actual driving force for a team, learning different soft skills and communication, understanding that being in a pharmacy is not just pushing scripts, you’re literally learning how to motivate, energize, drive goals, bring the best out of others even though you feel like complete crap.

I mean, you have to deal with it every day and you really do grow and build relationships with the people next to you. That was an intangible skill that I grossly underestimated while learning during this time in retail. Not only did it provide me a little bit of sustenance, pay off some student debt, we all have that. Also, it just taught me how to be a better DeLon when it came to management.

It put those tools into play. Don’t get me wrong, when I’m in the trenches, you’re not thinking, “Oh man, I’m a great manager.” You don’t care, you just go about your day and live your life and looking back, I had to learn so much about just being a team leader and leading by service. That was part of what helped me grow GeriatRx because I was all about community involvement, I was all about going to middle schools and doing health fairs or career days or drug awareness, like drug abuse awareness programs for the boys and girls club, all the things that I really liked in pharmacy school, I ended up doing in that job and it gave me the power to build some deep connections and just grow.

I subconsciously didn’t realize, I do that now with GeriatRx.

[0:12:11.9] TU: Yeah, when you just shared, you know, it taught me to be a better DeLon, that was why I specifically said the illusion of failure, right? Because I think in those moments, the weight of that is real, you felt it, right? Even in some of those days you reflect back on, in the moment, were you at the bench chain, “Hey, I’m becoming a better DeLon today” Probably not always, right? The compound effect of those experiences and learning, so important and obviously, the application to what you’re doing now.

DeLon, you mentioned leading by service, that’s something that’s been an interest and a passion of yours. When we first met, I was asking more about your career journey, you shared with me your experience volunteering and getting involved in different opportunities. Tell us more about what those opportunities were and how this was a pivot point that reinvigorated your passion and love for pharmacy and the role that a pharmacist can and should play in our broken healthcare system?

[0:13:05.0] DC: Man, for sure. You know, one component of healthcare that I think is grossly underestimated is the power of patient advocacy and of course, we do it when it comes to “Yeah, you should ask about this.” Little things here and there in our clinical settings. But truly teaching a culture of how patients can advocate for themselves can honestly improve health outcomes and build their confidence and trust in you as a pharmacist but in the system.

What I found with this broken system was, we weren’t doing our jobs to fully applicate. I got a little bit, I told you, depressed about that, but I found, thank god, a local nonprofit called Senior Pharmacist. This was while I was still in Henderson, moving on to Durum. They were a team of pharmacists and social workers that strictly helped people 60 and up in Durum County to not only enroll in appropriate Medicare plans, but they were this ship site for the county, needing state health insurance and information program.

They literally understand all the ramifications of Medicare and Medicaid within that state and county which, guess what, we don’t learn that in school, right? I don’t know any of that stuff and even when I hear Medicare, all I know is like coverage and deductible, donut hole, yeah, that’s it. That’s all I got.

This not only forced me to become a certified trained SHIP counselor, that means that I’m legally allowed to basically guide patients on what Medicare plans and Medicaid plans and what options are available for patients who are low income. This just changed my whole perspective of complete patient advocacy because here I am doing brown bags and net reviews and deep prescribing initiatives with this amazing nonprofit that’s not only saving patients on average $400 to $700 a year per person who are on fixed incomes, right? They’re literally making like, 18k a year if not less.

These are 65-year-olds who have already dedicated their lives to their healthcare, to our working force. This team of people saves thousands of dollars. In addition, they have their own prescription copay card. When people hit the gap, they can use a senior pharmacist copay card in addition to their Medicare, build them together and get the price cheaper. Because you and I both know that gap can be detrimental to people.

Again, this was like, complete opposite of Walgreens, I mean, we’re getting people off of drugs, we’re saving them money and the best part is, we are tracking things in real time because they were partnered with Duke University Hospital system.

Any communication was communicated in epic and documented and there was a drug change, there was a PA, we would do it for them, I mean, it was like an all-encompassing service, a concierge service so to speak, for low-income people who otherwise would have been lost to our healthcare system.

My god, that blew my mind and to this day, I still volunteer with them because that’s how much they mean to me and that’s how much I have actually based my business model off of what they do, which is cost of what it’s deep prescribing and patient advocacy. You really don’t know how to advocate if you don’t understand all the intricacies of Medicare and you know, parody levels, like, how low are you, what benefits are out there for you and I tell you, we don’t learn this in school.

It changed the way that I’ve perceived paraenesis and social workers and how the two are both needed to really mesh those barriers and social determinants of care. I love it, it’s been a driving force for why I’m here today.

[0:17:09.8] TU: Great stuff DeLon. We’ll link to Senior PharmAssist in the show notes for folks that want to learn more, whether they’re in the area and perhaps an opportunity for volunteering or folks that just want to see another model and perhaps find something, start something similar in their own area as well.

Let’s take a peek behind the curtain at your business that you started, GeriatRx, we’ll link to the website in the show notes, it’s geriatrix.org. DeLon, what is the problem that you are trying to solve when it comes to the business at GeriatRx?

[0:17:44.3] DC: I firmly believe that our seniors are grossly over-medicated and we waste nearly 528 billion dollars a year on mismanaged medications. That equates to nearly 275,000 people that die each year due to drug related adverse events. Unfortunately, our seniors are the most susceptible to these numbers and that is really the driving force on why I specifically help older adults get off of harmful medications, high-risk medications and not only focus on cost savings but focus on reducing the needs of our healthcare system to respond to mismanaged medications.

We’re directly and indirectly saving money but the key to GeriatRx is providing a holistic concierge, telehealth-based service where we use genetic testing, we’re here with deprescribing methods and of course, we use the patient advocacy piece by not only addressing sole determinants of health by looking for cost savings, food barriers, ability to reach needed services but we communicate things in real time to their doctor. We’re literally closing the loop that’s much needed in our senior population who sadly, I feel have been left to the wayside when it comes to our healthcare system.

[0:19:16.3] TU: Tell us more, DeLon, about your personal “why” specifically as it relates to your experience with your grandmother who is suffering with personal pain from unnecessary prescribing and the influence that that had, on starting the business and the work that you’re doing.

[0:19:29.6] DC: Yeah, I’m glad you asked. Yeah, my grandmother, Mildred, she was actually in the nursing home in New York for most of my college years. This happened when I was a junior/senior in college, thinking about pharmacy school. She was in a nursing home for a minute and we started noticing some changes in her behavior. She just was kind of forgetting her grandkids, my mom was a little nervous about that and it got to the point where in this nursing home, she was given the medication that completely spiraled her dementia out of control.

We at the time had no reason why she was declining so rapidly. The irony is, that very same nursing home kicked her out because she was having behavior issues. My parents are pretty much given the choice to basically invite her back home with them in Georgia and essentially raise another child because they both have full time jobs and now they have to be full time caregivers and balance with their work life schedules how to take care of my mom’s mom. This was a tough time for them.

My mom was a teacher who has to commute and my dad luckily had his own business and he was able to be flexible but for four months, my parents kept seeing her worsen. She was wandering out of the house in the middle of the night, she would snap at my mom, she would literally ring the doorbell at three AM and asked where she is.

Things that our parent’s worst nightmare to see who was once the rock of your family decline mentally. Again, we didn’t know what was going on for months and it got bad that we had to start getting home health services, we had to basically get some round the clock attention for her and put her into another nursing home because my parents couldn’t do it.

Again, more money wasted. Four months into it, luckily, a retail pharmacist, I believe it was Rite Aid, found that she was on Ziprasidone and she was on it quite a while but it had no indication and for those who don’t know, there is an FDA Blackbox indication for any anti-psychotic for dementia behavioral symptoms, which was why it was given to her which is wrong, it’s inappropriate and in fact, harmful.

Not only is there a risk of increased debt but of course, there’s a risk of, guess what? Delirium, dementia, acting out, having behavior issues. It wasn’t until this pharmacist, four months down the road advocated and pretty much demanded the doctor, stop it, who was still the prescriber in New York.

Two weeks later, her symptoms resolved. She remembered who she was, she was calm, she was just fine. Imagine how many families deal with this and don’t even second guess the medications that their loved ones are on. How many people spend tons of money and don’t even think that, “Well, the doctor ordered it so it must be safe.” This conception that patients have is they don’t think twice about the meds.

If they do, they’re afraid to speak up so I said, “You know what? I’m going to be that voice. I am going to be that advocate. I am going to provide a concierge personalized service where I do that for you and you don’t have to worry or have any doubts that it’s the actual litigations.” And that’s why I focus on senior patients even though I can help any older adult who’s medicated, I still do that too but this is such a passion project for me because I don’t want anyone to go through what my parents went through or what Mildred went through, who honestly could have died.

Just to be frank, she died, she lived until 90, which was fantastic but I got a text during my last day of rotation fourth year that she died as I was getting my presentation from my final rotation. You know, I knew she was at peace but she could have easily died during my time in pharmacy school if not earlier because of that pharmacist who saved her life.

[0:23:38.1] TU: Shout out to that pharmacist if they happen to be listening, what a cool testament to pharmacists who are in the frontlines being diligent about identifying some of those and raising the red flag, right? Sometimes in the midst of you’ve talked about the business, the chaos that can be the expectations, it takes time not only to identify but also be willing to kind of address and enter into the messiness that that can be sometimes.

DeLon, you highlighted I think and articulated very well the problem with mismanagement occasions, the need for deeper prescribing, the impact that mismanagement of medications can have on preventable deaths, so then tell us more about from a business standpoint as you’ve built out the work that you’re doing at GeriatRx, who is the customer and what are the products and services that you’re either offering or that you’re working on building out?

[0:24:26.0] DC: Sure, so customers tend to be frankly the caregivers, who are I would say the most neglected person in this loop of health care shenanigans. The caregivers are the ones who have pretty much minimal resources, they’re usually condescended to when it comes to the doctor’s office, they’re not listened to, they don’t have advocates and I figured why not be the clinical advocate for them.

I partner with caregiver support groups, I work with nursing homes, basically anyone who is senior facing. It could be an adult day care center and I give them the ways that they can advocate for themselves and their loved ones. I talk about de-prescribing. I particularly do a good deal of social media marketing. You know, a lot of the caregivers are on Facebook groups so I provide some solace to some of their questions on, “Hey, we’re starting Risperdal. What do you think?” “No, don’t do it.”

I do that a lot just to be a resource and I’ve gotten clients literally from my feedback, so you know, I do consulting and with telehealth. It’s interesting how the reach can be spread but again, there is a fine line on what you can and can’t do but even so, genetic testing has given me some versatility so patients who are interested in getting the best out of their meds who want to understand side effects, their genes, how it works with their bodies, I get a lot of support from the caregiver community.

Being in this space has allowed me to work with the Alzheimer’s Association, the Parkinson’s Association of Carolina, the North Carolina Dementia Support Group, you know I am creating content with Emery and we’ve done some Dementia Black Caregiver Supports with churches with an initiative to inform local churches on signs of dementia because we fail to remember that Blacks and Latinos actually have doubled the risk of dementia.

It usually is more undiagnosed in that population, so again, the social barriers to care play a part and so I have strategic partners across the states. It’s been such a blessing to know that I can be relied on and give a talk or give a presentation and empower people with the knowledge of a pharmacist but also show how versatile our roles can be in this profession.

[0:26:55.6] TU: That’s great stuff DeLon. I love the work that you’re doing, the passion that’s coming through here in the microphone that I’m sensing and I suspect those listening are feeling as well. One other story I want to highlight, you shared with us prior to the interview and this story relates to helping a family not only get off of 36 medications, let me just say that again, 36 medications down to eight but also being able to testify on behalf of the patient and prove that she was suffering from overmedication, which had led to her dramatic decline and behavior cognition attitude and chronic symptoms.

Tell us more about this example and probably how it’s unfortunately too common and obviously, the motivation that that’s provided to you as you continue to focus and grow in the business?

[0:27:40.2] DC: Yeah, I’d love to. That case means so much to me, that was literally my first leap of faith into this business, into GeriatRx, that happened in the middle of COVID like July-August and so, this was me hitting the ground running. I’m putting ads and basically talking everywhere I can on Whatsapp, Group Me, Next Door, Facebook. I’m saying, “Hey, I’m doing this” and believe it or not, this case was actually a referral from a fellow pharmacist.

She wasn’t a geriatric pharmacist but she felt something was off and so when she sent me that med list, I had a heart attack. There are like four antipsychotics, there was a Benzo, there was Dilaudid, why is she on Dilaudid? There was Benadryl, there’s all types of madness going on. I was like, “Oh yeah, we got a case here” so I said, “Hey, let’s just do a med review. Let me see what I can do.”

This is a 70-year-old African-American woman, barely 90 pounds and unfortunately, her caregiver described her as being a walking zombie and this was for months, just depressed, cathartic, irritable and I very much felt that my symptoms my grandma experienced were just like hers. This was going on for a month, I do the med review and I say, “Hey look, we got to create an action plan with the provider to get her off this things safely.”

Not just cold turkey stop but taper as we can and they agreed. They hired me to do the review but in the middle of me doing the review, like literally the week before the court case, which guess what? I didn’t know what’s happening, they’re like, “Hey DeLon, can you appear as a medical expert and give that testimony you gave about your med review to a jury of our peers?” and I was like, “Whoa, uhh, I don’t know. Do I need a lawyer?”

“No, no, just do what you got to do” and so I prayed on it man. I was like, “Okay, fine. I’ll do it” and so they hired me to serve as a medical expert in court and in this moment, I’ll tell you Tim, this was the ugliest litigation I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen a lawyer try to make this sweet woman look stupid. That was just evil, it was literally seeing someone make her look like, “You can’t even remember your own accounts so of course she need to be put into a nursing home.”

Unfortunately, the family was divided on the perspective of the medications being the problem. The majority of the family wanted to throw her into a nursing home, why? Here’s the ugly part, she had assets. Her husband was wealthy, she had a beautiful home, they wanted to seize her assets, her bank accounts and everything else and throw her into a home so that they can get the resources.

This is the ugly side of senior care because this happens a lot and unfortunately, the daughter who’s the only one who believed that it was the meds was the one who hired me. I did that favor, I played it my case, I gave my review, I talked about anticholinergic toxicities, I talked about sedative properties, I talked about overmedicating. I mean, the statistics of just being on more than five all in front of court, this is like the first time a pharmacists is in court to me.

I mean, I didn’t even know this is a thing. In fact, that could be a whole business model side, that’s for free guys, you can have that yourselves. It’s actually free, you can do that so I did that. The jury just was stunned, they even tried to cross examine me like, “What do you think about this report from the psychologist?” I mean, first of all, this was six months prior. Second of all, what you’re reading is proving my point that she is overmedicated.

Anyway, long story short, but the point is, they tried to be so evil. I was like, “I know it’s their job but I was like, damn dude, you’re making this woman, you are literally asking her to remember a date two years ago if she recalls that. I don’t remember what I ate yesterday, you’re trying to make her look like this woman who just has to be in a home.” Needless to say, I get my case, I talk about the meds.

I give my full report, the jury completely dropped the case. They completely dropped the case and they completely agreed that she was being overmedicated and they were able to keep all their assets and I shed a tear, man. She called me two hours when I got home, “DeLon, we won. We won! We won!” I was like, “Yes! Yo, yes” and that was God’s sign to me of “Yo, this is what you need to do for the rest of your life.”

For the rest of your life, I don’t care what and I was like, “You know what? You’re right because this was the happiest I have been in my career and just in my life, you know?” To have that level of impact, the keeper out of the nursing home and then the best part is a week later, we meet with the doctor, I gave all my recommendations, he’s like, “Okay, this is great, let’s do it” and a months’ time passes, a month and a half, she’s down to eight.

She’s down to eight and her symptoms did resolve, she did get better, less constipation, less irritability, she’s only on eight meds and she’s still going strong. I talked to them last week during the holidays and they’re doing great. Again, it was a blessing and that was my affirmation that taking this leap of faith is what I had to do, it’s my calling.

[0:33:06.4] TU: That’s awesome stuff and it’s inspiring as that example and the story is, it just makes me wonder DeLon, how many more are out there that don’t have DeLon in their corner, that don’t have a pharmacist that is advocating or family member that’s raising the concern that leads to the pharmacists who is recognizing and advocating on their behalf, right? You know, I think it’s just for me individually, it’s just such a great example and I’m inspired by the connection of the work that you’re doing at GeriatRx with your compelling vision and why, right?

I firmly believe that every great business, side hustle, project, whatever you want to call it, non-profit ultimately is solving a problem where there’s real pain, we’ve outlined that and as one that you personally care about and feel conflicted about and you’ve got both of those here, which I think is the recipe for success. Some folks might be wondering why on the YFP podcast are we talking about entrepreneurship. What’s the connection of personal finance?

I think as I think about the intersection of pharmacy and entrepreneurship and I am using entrepreneurship in the broadest sense, you know that could be folks that are internal within an organization that are kind of moving and shaking and identifying the opportunities for change, it could be somebody starting a non-profit, it could be starting your own for profit business but really, there’s a couple of reasons why I think this intersection and conversation that we’re having is so important.

Number one, there’s passion that I have through my own journey that the pharmacists I mentioned earlier really is the starting point I believe to a multitude of different pathways that someone might take. And I often hear from folks that listen to the show that say, “Hey, I feel stuck” or I hear from students that say, “I feel like I just have one or two options that I’m aware of” and so my hope is, is folks here, DeLon’s story, your other stories that some of the door start to open of the ideas of possibility that may be out there.

Then second is, how often have folks come to me and said, “Tim, I have a great idea for a side hustle, for a business, for a non-profit but…” insert lots of financial pain points, right? I have $200,000 of student loan debt, I’ve got this financial stress or I feel like I am behind on retirement saving and you know, this business endeavor is going to take some risk and perhaps, even take some capital contribution. It may certainly have an impact on the financial plan.

The reason I give that background DeLon is, as I reflect on my own experience and talk with other pharmacy entrepreneurs, I come to appreciate the connection between one having a strong personal financial foundation and that laying the ground work for them being able to approach a business idea, with the confidence and the attention that it deserves.

For you individually, tell us more about how you were able to get on solid financial footing such that you felt comfortable and ready to ultimately leave on the table what can be any six figured job that’s out there that would of course, pay the bills plus some but to be able to pursue this passion and interest that you have in the business?

[0:35:58.1] DC: Yeah, I think I’m still trying to find that. No, I’m joking but honestly, I didn’t expect to be fired in the middle of COVID. I stepped down from Walgreens in 20 – gosh, what was the year before COVID? Jeez, it’s been that long, 2019, I stepped down in 2019. I honestly took a pay cut because I wanted to work at the poison control and I would be paid, it was like a $50,000 pay cut.

I was burned out with Walgreens so they let me just step down and do something different, so I worked as a poison control pharmacist for like, I don’t know, $34 an hour and I loved it. I loved it but I ended up working a bit too much overtime because guess what? The poison control fields of the COVID calls and this was like in the beginning of the pandemic, so we didn’t even had any idea really much about COVID but we, a team of 12, ended up fielding the state of North Carolina’s nearly averaging 700, 800 calls a day.

Of course, not normal so that honestly burned me out. I honestly fell asleep at the desk after that period of time of still being exhausted and for that time period of five minutes falling asleep because it was policy, I was fired. And this was in the middle of COVID and because I was fired, I couldn’t file for unemployment so I was even more livid and I was like, “God, again, another step down into a dream job and I get fired. It’s just fantastic.”

I didn’t have as much of a financial plan in that regard for starting a business, however, I did have good financial standing and that was the best part I would say of working with Walgreens was having those buckets in reserve, whether it be savings, your 401(k), mutual funds, stocks, liquid assets, I had those and so, I did have to dip into the funds and guess what? I didn’t feel great about it.

I didn’t like having to rely on the things that I worked so hard to save but I learned that in business, capital is supposed to be fluid. Yes, you want to put some, pay yourself, put some in the business but your money is meant to help you make more money and it always takes money and some assets to make more money. It’s just the truth and I had to learn that the hard way so, I had some stocks that I can just sell and guess what?

I was riding a Tesla wave, it was just I have no footage of disclaimer so this closed but anyway, I rode Tesla and that made money during COVID and I was able to not only save but I was able to put that into the business and so the first thing I did was start getting – of course, I told my financial adviser. If you don’t have a financial adviser by now, talk to them, get your mind right because you got to have one in this game.

You really do because you don’t know it all and we’re not perfect at everything, so get one, but I have a financial adviser. I told him what I was doing. He was like, “Okay, let’s move from this front, let’s do some things here” and that helped me have a little bit of a guiding compass so I’m not sweating bullets to make the next paycheck. I also worked a little bit part-time, independent to help out with COVID shots, so that helped me with some income but guys, have some type of capital.

Have some type of plan for real, like I know it wasn’t as cookie cutter for me and I was forced into starting GeriatRx, which thankfully happened. But I found that having those buckets, the mutual funds, the savings, the stocks, allowed me to have that flexibility not to worry as much and so that gave me room to make mistakes because guess what? You’re going to make mistakes in business that will cost you money.

You’re going to undercharge for your services because you just want to do it and you realized, “Dang! I could have charged 10X that and it would have had the same effect. I would have felt better about it.” I remember one of my first packages, I sold for like what? I was like $1,800, which feels good, right? But it was for six months of service. I was getting paid $300 a month so that was like what? A dollar a day? 10 dollars a day? That’s crazy.

Anyway, I had to learn some things about how to better articulate my value and that takes some time to learn, we have a whole new business model. Again, it was critical that I had those buckets in place. I didn’t want to dip into them but I’ve gotten to a point now where I’m seeing it as what am I loosing if I don’t do this. What’s the cost of inaction? What’s the cost of not making that move, not getting that mentor, not investing in yourself, not growing yourself and your brand in a relatively quick amount of time?

I mean, here I am on your podcast, it’s only been a year and a half since I started GeriatRx, so I think it is part of the plan. It does help to have that financial capital but keep in mind that money is fully, you can make money doing all types of stuff. You could write, you could blog, you could review, I don’t know, charts. You don’t have to feel so confined to that job especially now with the great resignation, COVID has woken up people to doing better for themselves.

This has been a time where some of the most businesses have launched, really in the height of COVID, so don’t feel like you have to be stuck. Well, I had, guess what? I had debt too, are you kidding me? I went to every annuancy out of state so I know I got more debt than all of you all, but jokes, but still, you got to see things as gradual progression, fall forward, fail forward and keep pushing, keep moving and don’t – money is important.

Take care of your bills, take care of your family but know that if you’re investing in some things that you may do for free that the value and return down the road is going to be worth more and that’s something that I did not know. I did not know that at first and it really has grown my business with strategic partners and referrals and ongoing projects to this day.

[0:42:16.6] TU: Great wisdom DeLon, love the mindset that you have and you know, I’ve gotten a chance to know you a little bit here, a year and a half into the business but I would suspect if we would have talked a year and a half ago, you know, that same confidence, that same mindset, that same view and approach on, “Hey, what can I invest in that’s going to help me continue to grow” right? More of that abundance mindset I suspect has been an area of growth for you over the last year and a half.

Lots of takeaway there from the last few minutes and as we talk about so much at YFP, having that strong financial foundation, right? You mentioned savings and capitals, options, options, options, right? You never know what life is going to throw at you. It could be a business idea that you want to pursue, it could be a job, hours get reduced, you get let go, it could be a sick family member, an emergency. It could be an opportunity, right?

Having those options is so important. DeLon, this interview has been fantastic. I’m so excited to get it out to our community. I think it is going to be a great source of inspiration and motivation to many. Where is the best place for our listeners to go to learn more about you and the work that you’re doing with GeriatRx?

[0:43:17.9] DC: Yeah, I am all over social media, so Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, you can just follow me @geriatrx, of course my website is geriatrx.org. You can always get me there, my cellphone is literally on the website, you can email me at [email protected] but I’m most accessible on all of my social media, so I respond in any way, shape or form but LinkedIn has been probably the most easiest way to go and get in touch with me.

[0:43:52.9] TU: Great stuff, we’ll link to all the social, website, email in the show notes. DeLon, again, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.

[0:43:59.7] DC: Absolute pleasure Tim, have a good one.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:44:02.5] ANNOUNCER: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information of the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

Thank you again for your support of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 239: Two Financial I’s You May be Overlooking

Posted on by yfpadmin

Two Financial I’s You May be Overlooking

Tim Baker talks through two I’s that you might be overlooking as it relates to your financial plan: inflation and I-Bonds.

Episode Summary

Today, Tim Ulbrich and Tim Baker sit down to talk about the two ‘i’s that you may be overlooking in your financial planning – inflation and I-Bonds, more formally known as series I savings bonds. While these words may not scream excitement, understanding these two aspects can be valuable in helping you to get the most purchasing power out of your money in the future. During the interview, Tim and Tim discuss why inflation can sneak up on you and why it is an important yet often underestimated consideration for the financial plan. Tim Baker discusses the basics of inflation and some potential ways to combat its impact on your financial plan. Tim Baker also shares basic information on I bonds and who they might be a good fit for, considering the personal financial plan and situation. Listeners will hear about how to acquire I-Bonds, some interesting and quirky rules to take into account regarding this type of investment, and a detailed explanation of why these bonds (not to be confused with E-Bonds) can be used as one strategy to hedge against inflation. This episode has all the percentages that you’re looking for to figure out if I-Bonds are the right vehicle for you.

Key Points From This Episode

Kicking off with inflation; what the term actually means and why it’s the current hot topic.
Breaking down the inflation statistics and how it’s affecting your buying power over time.
Encouraging the listener to start by listening to Ask a YFP CFP® episode 93
Introducing I-Bonds, not to be confused with E-Bonds.
Who the I-Bond is suitable for, and the big potential drawback: the holding period.
Some of the interesting and quirky rules of I-Bonds.
Why methods to protect you against inflation are important.
How folks often underestimate their nest egg needs because of not considering inflation.
Talking about inflation in the context of an emergency fund.
Tim offers some different ways you can slice the apple, depending on the scenario.

Highlights

“Inflation is a thing that it’s kind of like death and taxes, right? Typically, it follows economic progress.” — Tim Baker, CFP® [0:05:44]

“The average value of houses has risen by 58% just over – Since 2011, in the last 10 years. The Dow Jones has been up 147%, Nacre Farmland up 37%. But I think it doesn’t really hit us in the face until we’re at the grocery store.” — Tim Baker, CFP® [0:09:16]

“For people who are on fixed incomes, retirees, or are looking for something safe, [I bonds] are definitely something that you can look at.” — Tim Baker, CFP® [0:11:47]

“Methods to protect you against inflation are really important because you really want to protect your purchasing power on your dollars, which means not standing on the sidelines. It means invest it. It means thinking of things like I bonds .” — Tim Baker, CFP® [0:17:53]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week, I had a chance to sit down with YFP Co-founder, Co-owner, and Director of Financial Planning, Tim Baker, to talk through two ‘i’s that you might be overlooking as it relates to your financial plan, that being inflation and I bonds, more formally known as series I savings bonds. During the interview, Tim and I discuss why inflation can sneak up on you and is an important yet often underestimated consideration for the financial plan, some strategies to combat inflation, and what I bonds are and how they are one tool to consider hedging against inflation.

Now, before we jump into today’s episode, now that we have put the calendar on 2022, it’s time to think about tax season. I’m excited to share that YFP Tax can file taxes for an additional 125 pharmacist households this year. The team at YFP Tax isn’t focused on just completing your tax return. Instead, they provide value, care, and attention to you and your taxes. Because YFP Tax worked specifically with pharmacists, they’re familiar with aspects of your financial plan that have an impact on your taxes. The YFP Tax finally waitlist is now opened. If you’re interested in working with a team of highly trained tax professionals, I invite you to add your name to the waitlist by visiting yourfinancialpharmacist.com/tax. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/tax.

[EPISODE]

[00:01:31] TU: Tim Baker, Happy New Year.

[00:01:33] TB: Yeah. Happy New Year, Tim. Hopefully, you had some good time off with the fam over the holiday.

[00:01:37] TU: We did and really excited for 2022. We’ve got a lot of exciting content plan for the YFP community. Today, we’re going to be talking about inflation and I bonds. I know that the words inflation and bonds don’t really scream exciting topics, but we’re going to have some fun with this episode, and I’m confident our listeners are going to take away something valuable that hopefully they can apply to their financial plan. Our approach for today’s show is we’re going to talk about inflation first, and then I bonds as one strategy to hedge against inflation.

Now, inflation, Tim Baker, something we haven’t really talked about in detail on the show, which I think is fitting because we’re a few hundred episodes in. If we think about inflation warnings, I think about is that we often hear that term. We think about it. We know it’s somewhere in the background. But it might not be front and center or something that’s top of mind as it relates to our financial plan. So we know it’s real, but it can be hard to put our finger on it, exactly what is inflation, what is the impact that it might be having to my financial plan. That’s something that I think hopefully folks will be thinking about, especially over the long run when we think about the impact that inflation can have.

So, Tim, kick us off. What is it, inflation, and why is that term getting so much attention right now?

[00:02:49] TB: Yeah. I’m going to steal Investopedia’s definition, and they define it as the inflation as the decline of purchasing power of a given currency over time. I think like for a lot of people, myself included, before kind of getting into financial services, I’m like, “What? What is this?” I kind of knew very high level what it means but I didn’t really connect the dots. I just thought, “Okay, like prices go up.” To date myself, I think when I started driving, gas was at like under a dollar, whenever that was, so 89 cents. I think that’s when my brother started driving, my older brother.

[00:03:22] TU: That’s when we were in high school, Tim.

[00:03:24] TB: Yeah. Then you think about where it’s at now. I think gas is very tightly controlled in a lot of ways because of one of those numbers that kind of hits us in the face every day when we’re going to work. So it really is reflected in the increase of the average price level of a basket of selected goods and services in the economy over like a period of time. We typically represent inflation as a percentage. So like when we do planning, we look at historical rates year over year, and most planners I think use a 3% inflation mark. Or right now, where inflation is, which is it’s been reported 6.8% there towards the end of the year, that’s not necessarily good enough.

But over time, typically 3% is what we use as planners. What it means is that our currency, the dollar, effectively buys less than it did in prior periods. I’ll talk about inflation when we typically talk about investments because I’ll say for a lot of people that are more conservative in nature or just don’t really understand investments, they’ll say like, “Tim, do I have to? Do I have to invest? I don’t like the swings in the market and like the news and all that kind of stuff. So I’d rather just not if I could.” Again, this is the extreme example, and I’m like, “Yeah, you kind of have to.” Because if you’ve heard one of my webinars, I’ll invoke my dad who’s in his 70s, and we talk about back in his day, a nickel would buy the whole candy store. Now, it doesn’t buy anything.

We also kind of illustrate the point of that, that Starbucks coffee that costs $4.20. In 30 years, using historical rates of inflation of 3%, that same Starbucks latte is going to cost you 10 bucks in 30 years. So what we can’t do is stuff our mattress full of dollars and hope that we’re going to have enough at the end of the rainbow there. We’re not, and it’s because of those little inflation termites are going to eat away at the purchasing power of your money. So that’s really what’s at stake here. Typically, the financial services world will say, “Invest, invest.” That’s typically what we want to do to kind of keep in front of inflation.

But here, what we’re going to talk about is more about what these I bonds are, and kind of follow that inflation and I bonds discussion. The idea here is that inflation is a thing that it’s kind of like death and taxes, right? Typically, it follows economic progress. Sometimes, it comes when there’s too much money in the system, which we’ve seen over the last couple of years of what the government is doing. So this can lead to an escalation of prices. This is – It’s important to understand, at least at a high level, and then that’s one of the reasons why we wanted to bring this up today.

[00:06:08] TU: Yeah, and I think it’s something – The time is right, Tim, right? I’ve mentioned on the show before, I’m still that old guy that gets the Wall Street Journal in my house every day. Every day, it’s either front page –

[00:06:18] TB: Like the paper version?

[00:06:19] TU: The paper version. I like –

[00:06:20] TB: Wow, that is old school. Do you like shake your cane at the kids that run through your yard? I love it.

[00:06:27] TU: I don’t know. There’s like – it might be from playing paperboy. Did you play that game growing up, Paperboy?

[00:06:31] TB: I did, yeah. That was cool.

[00:06:32] TU: There’s like some feel good. It’s like when I hear the car go by in the morning, I hear the paper hit the driveway, so yeah. But inflation is front page, and it has been for several months now. I think we’re getting practical here, which is what we need to because I think inflation, and you mentioned kind of a concept of termites, is a really good example because you might go to the grocery store. Even in this time of period where we’re seeing six plus percent for those of us that aren’t that old yet, this is pretty big for us historically, right? We’ve heard our parents talk about double-digit inflation and so forth. But for us, this is significant and perhaps something new that we’re dealing with.

But even on a $100, $200 purchase at the grocery store, you might not be like, “Oh, wow, that’s having a big impact.” But if we take a step back and extrapolate that across all of your expenses, it could be groceries, it could be households, it could be goods, it could be utilities, it can be cars that are being purchased, the list goes on and on, like and you’re spending X thousands of dollars per year, obviously that has a big impact that we need to be thinking about. If that continues to go on, we’ve got to have some strategies that can mitigate that over time.

I think it’s really important as we think about some strategies. We’re going to talk about one of those today, which is the I bonds, more formally known as the series I savings bonds. Just a reminder, before we dig into this discussion, certainly this is not intended to be investment advice, right? We’re going to be talking about one vehicle. I think the strategy of inflation and mitigating inflation across the financial plan over several decades, of course, goes well beyond just considering series I savings bonds. So, again, not investment advice but I think one unique opportunity and tool.

A shout out, this question actually came originally from an individual that attended a YFP investing webinar in 2021. We then addressed it briefly on Ask a YFP CFP, which we publish weekly, episode 93. The question at the time related to, “Is it okay to have a portion of my emergency fund in an electronic US Treasury savings bond, specifically in reference to the I bond?” What was interesting was at the time that question came in, the I bond combined rate, which we’ll talk about what that means, was 3.5%. Now, because of inflation and the discussion we just had, we’re seeing that rate now north of 7%. So, again, one vehicle, but something I think that’s worth considering might be something of interest to many that are listening. So, Tim, give us an overview of what I bonds are. Then we’ll talk about some of the pros, cons, and potential role that this may play in the financial plan.

[00:09:01] TB: Yeah, and just to address the point to piggyback on. Before I talk about the I bonds, there’s a piggyback on the idea of like why is inflation, outside of it going up a lot – I think that what’s happened over the decade is that – I think people have seen this, but then now we’re seeing it more tied to consumer goods. The average value of houses has risen by 58% just over – Since 2011, in the last 10 years. The Dow Jones has been up 147%, Nacre Farmland up 37%. But I think it doesn’t really hit us in the face until it’s like we’re at the grocery store or that type of thing.

I think that’s why outside of the huge increase, and I think it’s leading to discussions about double-digit inflation and kind of returning. I looked up some numbers back in the early ‘80s, again to kind of when I was born. The interest or the inflation percentage was like 13.5%, and that was leading mortgages to go up as high as 17%. I think even higher than that. So think about that. Like I was kind of complaining when I bought my house in Baltimore. That was like 4.5%. I’m like, “Oh, man. This is so high.” Especially now it’s like 3%. So a lot of this is relative, and we’ve seen this has been cyclical. It was really high in the ‘70s and ‘80s. It was high, I think, in the ‘40s at one point. It was high like right before the Great Depression. That was kind of one of the causes there, so yeah.

I think to talk about like how to mitigate this, which is, we talked about the I bonds, the tried and true is always talking about equities, stocks, like investment in stocks. Investment in real estate’s another thing. So to kind of preface that, and I would encourage everyone to kind of listen to the Ask a YFP episode because we kind of talked about even just setting it up and how that experience was, it’s really about going to the treasurydirect.gov, and you can buy them directly from the government that way. What we’re talking about here, the series I bond, not to be confused with the double E bonds. It’s really, again, I think what I said in the episode is kind of eye-popping where those were when I bought mine, which I think was like 3.5%. Now, the inflation component is like 7.12%.

The way it works is you buy the I bond. I think it’s every six months, the Treasury looks at the inflation rates, and they basically adjust that inflation component. So when you buy an I bond, there’s really two components. There’s the fixed component, which is at 0% and then the inflation component, which is at 7.12%, which I think holds until April of this year. Then those two things combined are your composite rate, and that’s basically compounded semi-annually. Right now, for these first six months, it’s going to be locked in at that 7.12%, and they’ll reassess, and it could go up, go down. It sounds like it could go up based on the news and things like that. It’s really a – in the episode, I kind of talk about tips, like where it basically follows inflation. It’s kind of the same thing.

For people who are on fixed incomes, retirees, or are looking for something safe, these are definitely something that you can look at. We talked about it in the context of emergency fund. There’s tax advantages here. The big drawback to the I bond is the holding period. So basically, the reason that we were kind of not an advocate for using it for an emergency fund, especially as you’re building it, is that you cannot touch the dollars that you put in there for a year. So obviously, that’s not ideal for an emergency fund. But once you get beyond the year, you can touch it, but you’re penalized. So I think there’s like a three-month penalty of the interest that’s been accrued, and then you can get to it. Then after five years, you can essentially do what you want with it. But the rates are interesting because it’s really been the highest that they’ve been since I think May of 2000.

Again, if you’re thinking like, “Man, I’m looking at my high-yield savings account, which is paying half a percent,” or a five-year CD is paying less than 1% or 1%, whatever they’re at today, this is an interesting way. I talked about it again, so I’m going to keep it simple like investments, high-yield savings account, not a lot of variation from that. But I think where everything is in terms of the state of rates and things like that, I think it’s a viable way or viable way to go.

Some of the things that are interesting about I bonds, there’s just kind of some quirky rules. So like as an example, if Shane and I want to buy these bonds, we’re really limited to $10,000 each per year. Then you might say like, “Well, that’s quite a bit of money,” and I would agree. But if you’re looking at this as a major component of, say, your retirement portfolio, retirement paycheck, that might not necessarily be enough.

But if you have children, you can also buy I bonds at the same rate per year for the kids that you have. Then the other thing that you can do, and, Tim, this might be something that we just often talk about, is you can buy them for entities. So we might be able to buy them for, say, the business entity, even though that we own the business entity and we have our own portfolio. That’s something that I think allows you to be a little bit flexible. Then the other thing is that the levels of which you can buy are basically set but outside of like if you were to use like a tax refund. So right now, we’re hitting tax season. If you’re thinking, “This sounds really interesting. Maybe I want to do this to kind of eke out a little bit more yield from what I’m doing and kind of my cash components of my wealth building,” you can actually use the refunds that you get from the IRS to purchase additional amounts of I bond.

It’s something that, again, it’s tied to the consumer price index, which is very much related to inflation, that the US Treasury Department basically reviews and then adjusts the inflation component of the rate accordingly. So if you’re out there and you’re like, “Man, I do not like the rates that I’m currently getting in kind of my cash and cash-like investments,” this is definitely something to potentially look at, given what you’re looking at it for, your financial situation. Again, I wouldn’t necessarily do this if you have no cash component, but I look at it as a very viable way to kind of hedge against the inflation. Because just to talk in broader concepts, Tim, if you have a savings vehicle and you’re earning 1% on that savings vehicle, which is very generous right now, and inflation grows by 7%, which is kind of what it’s been trending to last couple months, you’re essentially 6% poorer.

You might feel richer because you’re putting those dollars aside. That’s why a lot of people call inflation the worst tax because it kind of goes back to that idea of like it’s the termites that eat away your purchasing power. It’s that hidden ninja, that hidden assassin, that’s just really beating you down in the background. So these are things that, especially because of where it’s trending, just to be cognizant of. So you kind of talked about how powerful this can be. One of the things we do with clients, Tim, is go through the nest egg calculation of like, “Hey, you need $4 million to retire,” and that’s where a lot of people look at us, like we have 4 million heads, right? Because it’s a number that’s in the future that’s very large that tangibly I can’t really wrap my head around.

What we say is, and I’m going off just an example here, if you make $125,000 as a pharmacist and say you’re 35 years old and you want to retire at age 65, that gives you 30 years left to work for the man, right? So you have 30 years of earning potential and you’re going to retire at 65. We’re going to assume that your wage is going to increase over time as well. We’ll say that for the purposes of this, we kind of do a wage replacement ratio of what you need to live off from 65 until basically the end of life. That allows us to get to that number of three, four million in that range. But that wage replacement ratio of, say, $125,000, if we discount that sum, we’d usually discount it by about 30%, and we’re planning for that 70% is what we need to live in retirement. That’s 80 cents. So 70% of $125,000 is $87,500.

But in 30 years, when you are 65, no longer 35, use in historical rates of inflation 3%, that paycheck is not at $87,500. It’s grown because of inflation. So now it’s $212,000. So think about that. Right now, I’m saying if I were to retire right now at 35, I would need $87,000, and I’m making $125,000. I would need – If we discounted a little bit because typically we don’t plan for like saving for retirement while we’re in retirement, right now I would need $87,500. So that’s where I kind of talked through, Tim, you would come to me and you would say, “Tim, I need $87,500 for 2022 and then basically the next year, $87,500 for 2023, given some inflation.” But if we don’t retire and we wait until we’re 65, that $87,500, you’re going to basically hand out and say, “Where’s my retirement paycheck for $212,400, essentially?”

If you think about it in those terms, you’re like, “Holy geez. $87,000 in 30 years is going to be $212,000.” That is why methods to protect you against inflation are really important because you really want to protect your purchasing power on your dollars, which means not standing on the sidelines. It means invest it. It means thinking of things like I bonds, etc. So I know very much tangential here, Tim, in terms of stream of thought in terms of this. But that’s what we’re essentially talking about when we talk about inflation and then kind of how I bonds can keep pace with that.

[00:18:19] TU: Yeah. I’m glad you went there, Tim, because I think this is something I’m sure you and the planning team see with clients. I’ve seen it over and over again when we do sessions with pharmacists on investing, right? We have them dust off that nest egg calculator. We punch in the numbers. They spit out a number, and like you can see that overwhelm look.

[00:18:37] TB: Or crickets like, “What does that mean?”

[00:18:39] TU: Yeah. I think one of the things that the planning team does an awesome job of is when you’re thinking 30 to 40 years out, like it can feel like fake fuzzy math. I think it really has to be discounted back to what does this mean today. What does this mean today in terms of, here we’re talking about commodity inflation? But also, what does this mean today in terms of my savings plan, and really trusting the math, and trusting the process in terms of where we’re trying to go for long term? But that’s why when I say, “Hey, audience. How much do you think you’re going to need to have to save for retirement,” inevitably folks are underestimating what is the true need, right? Because they’re not thinking about it in terms of inflation and the impact of what future dollars are going to be needed. They’re thinking about it of, “Okay, I make $100,000 today. I’m going to retire in 30 years.” They’re not thinking about what might be the impact of what they’re going to need, if that income continues to rise. Obviously, the expenses rise with it accordingly.

A separate conversation for a separate day, but I think one of the concerns that we need to be thinking about talking about pharmacy is, when I then go down that path in a presentation and have that discussion, people are like, “Man, is a pharmacist really going to be making $200,000 in 30 years,” whatever that would be. Obviously, that gets to supply and demand and rules and all those types of things. But certainly, we need to be thinking about what is the impact of this over many, many, many years over time.

Tim, talk me off the ledge. Okay, so I’m looking at my Ally account. A couple years ago, we would have been better off storing some cash in a high-yield savings account when they were – Remind me. I think we were almost at 2% a couple years ago, weren’t we?

[00:20:14] TB: I remember Ally. I think it was like 2.35%.

[00:20:18] TU: Yeah. So I’m looking at .5.

[00:20:19] TB: I would twist my mustache every time, Tim. I would get the email saying, “Hey, your Ally interest rate has gone up.” Then when we just get those emails,” that like, “Your rate’s going down because rates have gone down.” But they’re kind of back on the rise, yeah.

[00:20:31] TU: So I’m looking at 0.5%. At the time, obviously, we’re looking at the composite rate reminder. I bonds includes both a fixed component currently 0% and inflation component currently 7.12%. So that combined rate of 7.12% clearly beats 0.5%. But that was a very different scenario a couple years ago. If you look at what those rates were then, you would have been mathematically better off stashing your money in an Ally account.

In this period of time where folks might be feeling that pressure of inflation, I want to talk about this in the context of an emergency fund specifically. So let’s say that, Tim, you personally, so this is not advice for anyone else. You personally, maybe you have a need of, I don’t know, $40,000 in emergency fund, %30,000, whatever the number is. As you’re kind of evaluating that, especially where you’re seeing this discrepancy of 6.5% or so, like how are you thinking through or questions you’re asking yourself about, “Hey, what might I keep right here? It’s liquid. It’s accessible. I can easily get to it when I need it.” Versus something I might put in an I bond, try to beat some of this inflation or keep pace of what is going, knowing that there’s these limitations? You talked about them in terms of within a year, no bueno. Within five years, we got to pay a few months penalty on the interest. So obviously, we lose some liquidity and accessibility. Tell me more about how you’d be thinking through that.

[00:21:49] TB: I value simplicity a lot. I think, for me, the numbers would have to really be I think telling for me to like kind of change up my, I guess, pattern of how I do things. So if you take an example, say we shave off $10,000 of that $30,000 or $40,000 dollar emergency fund, or say you have something that’s going to come up because the hard part about – investing long term I think is fairly easy. It’s when you start investing in the medium term or even the short term where it kind of gets funky because, again, the market. If you look at the S&P 500, I think like the worst year-over-year return in the market, it’s like down 37%. But then it’s been up 40% year over year.

So when people say like, “Tim, what should I do with this money,” I’m like, “Just put it in a high yield. Don’t even mess with it.” If it’s like three or four years, that’s when you’re like, “Okay, is there a portfolio you can build out where you’re going to take some risk?” That’s a stock and bond portfolio that you’re taking some risk, but you’re kind of hedging in some bonds that can eke out more return than like what a high-yield or a CD can do. So if we take this example and we say, “Okay, there’s $10,000 there, whether it’s for an emergency fund or something that’s in the future,” if it’s a half of a percent that you’re getting from a high-yield, at the end of that year, you’re going to have not $10,000. You’re going to have $10,050. $51. Because of some of the compounding period, $52.

But if you were to do the same thing right now with the I bond, the I bond would be worth $10,360 bucks. Now, I’m thinking. I’m like, “All right, do I want to do it for an extra $300?” For me, I don’t know. The answer might not be great enough. Maybe if it’s $100,000, which, again, I’m not putting $100,000 myself into an I bond, maybe that’s a different. So the thing is like, okay, so then if you say a year out, I need this money, but then you take the haircut on the interest penalty, it’s probably not worth it, right? But the further you go out, and that’s the case with any investment is typically the longer that you own it, the better it is.

So I’m going to go back to my age-old saying, which it just depends. Again, if your emergency fund is not built, then I would say probably not. Get that level of cash, and then you can start looking at a deeper reserve or for something like if you know that you have something out, that’s two years out that you’re like, “Hey, we’re going to save for an investment property or for a wedding or something like that,” then this might be a good way to go. Because if you invest it, there’s a chance that you could have a negative return, which that is not here. This is backed by the full faith and credibility of the – even if we go into a deflationary period, where interest rates are negative, which that’s not the case, it’s still buoyed by the composite and even like past earnings that you’ve had at that 7.12%.

It really depends, Tim. I think you have to figure out like the penalties, how long you’re going to hold it. For retirees, this might be a good component of even like a bond ladder or things like that. So people that know, “Hey, I’m 60 years old and I want to retire at 65,” this might be a component where you are building out the first couple years of your retirement paycheck that it makes sense. So there’s just a lot of different ways to kind of slice the apple here, and I think it just depends on your situation. But I think if you’re out there and you’re like, “I’d rather do this with my emergency fund than I’m building right now,” I would say pump your brakes because, again, I don’t want you to have to reach for the credit card, if something comes up, to kind of cover that emergency.

Again, if we’re kind of trying to keep pace with inflation, this is something that kind of automatically does it for you that the Treasury sets. But it’s not going to get you – so the caveat to all these conversations, Tim, is that if you need three or four million when you retire, investing in I bonds is not going to do it, right? You have to have a stock portfolio that will get you there. Now, if you’re approaching retirement, a bond portfolio and a bond ladder or some type of SPIA or something like that that will kind of get you to where you have basic needs and can kind of also [inaudible 00:25:55] market and get some return is going to be important as well. So it just really depends on where you’re at, what you want to use it for, as is the case with everything. But if it’s something more near term or if you want to kind of – because I would even argue that a bond portfolio compared to an I bond, you’re probably going to be better in a bond portfolio even right now. So things ebb and flow as well. It just really depends on the situation, but there’s a lot of factors to consider.

[00:26:21] TU: I think there’s a lot of good stuff in there, Tim, though, and that was partly why I asked the question because I think sometimes I’m speaking here to my fellow hyper-analytical pharmacy nerds that are looking at the percentages. But it’s a good reminder. I think sometimes we see a savings account. We’re like, “Oh, .7 versus .2.” But do the math, right? I mean, if you’re looking at 10,000, I mean, even if inflation keeps at this rate, and we see the composite rate for two or three years, even if you max that out, like what is the true net difference, right? I’m not mitigating what a few hundred dollars 100 can mean. It’s important, but let’s not lose the big picture of what we’re trying to go or let’s also make sure we’re factoring in some of the downsides, considering the liquidity, the time periods, and things like that.

Hopefully hitting home that there’s some value, there’s a role. But I think a tendency, when folks hear about something like this, myself included, is like, “I’m logging on to US TreasuryDirect. I’m buying right now,” right? Take a step back, pump the brakes, look at the math, look at the bigger picture, and I think that’s something obviously the planning team in the process can really help with as well.

[00:27:24] TB: Yeah. I think it’s probably a good place for me to acknowledge because sometimes I beat up on people that will do things out of order a little bit where I’m like, “Well, we have a bunch of credit card debt but we have like $5,000 in like Robin Hood, kind of out of order.” I think sometimes that happens because of just curiosity, and this is kind of like what we did. We’re like, “Oh.” I’ve always kind of said, “Hey, keep it simple, high-yield, maybe CDs, that type of thing.” When this was brought forward, I obviously knew what I bonds were, but I was not necessarily paying attention to the rates because they’re typically very, very minimal because of where inflation has been. But we kind of went through that and experimented a little bit and like as we see kind of with people that do Robin Hood and don’t necessarily have the foundation set.

I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Again, I don’t necessarily have my I bonds on my balance sheet right now because it’s just kind of something that is in the background. But I do think it is, I think, a viable vehicle to consider, kind of depending on where you’re at. Again, at the end of the day, I’m always going to go back and say work with your advisor and see if this is something that fits with you or your spouse and kind of get a sense of what that particular vehicle has a place in your wealth building in your portfolio.

[00:28:32] TU: Yeah. I think is we say often, Tim and I know we talk about student loans. We often say, “Hey, payment plan decision, it’s the math plus, right? It’s the math, plus all these other factors.” I think it’s a good example of that here as well. I’m thinking about folks that might be hearing about this thing, about their emergency fund, looking at inflation and like, “Yeah, I’d love to do that.” But does something like having your money liquid and accessible to you, does that provide some peace of mind? Like don’t undervalue that, if that’s important to you and that idea that something might be tied up for a period of time. Is that worth it? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think that’s, again, a reminder of take a step back and look at how this can be considered as a part of the broader financial plan.

[00:29:11] TB: Yeah. I think to that end, Tim, like when I logged into my account again today, there’s no like get-my-money-out button because I’m still under the one year. Again, like if that – thankfully, I have a pretty robust cash reserve, emergency fund, that if something does hit the fan, I can always tap into that. But if that’s not the case, I’m like – that’s just a number on the screen right now. I’m assuming after a year that kind of unlocks, and then kind of probably we’ll talk about penalties and things like that, interest penalties. But there is something very satisfying about, okay, like if there is.

Again, like I’ll harken back to the beginning of the pandemic when it was a very nice reminder, if I can say this without sounding like a jerk. The pandemic was a reminder that when the markets and – it seemed like everything was falling. It’s why we have the emergency fund, right? Because the emergency fund is never – it’s just not fun to – for me, it’s fun to like, when we dip into it, to like replenish it. I’m kind of a nerd there. So like if it’s below the level, I’m like, “All right, I want to make sure that we pay attention to this, so it’s back to its regular level.” But when you’re building it, especially from scratch, it kind of just stinks. Like it’s good to make progress. But you kind of want to get to steps five and six and seven. But it’s kind of following that, “Let’s do one, two, and three first.”

So this is where I think you can get in trouble because you don’t keep it simple, you do a little bit too much than what you need to do, and you can be burned by it. But I think sometimes we need those reminders to say like, “Okay, the emergency fund at the end of the day is not really to make you money. It’s to be there in case something happens.” But we try to put it in places that we can maximize the value because, again, that $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, whatever it is, that money that’s sitting there is going to buy you less in the future. So that’s another thing to consider as you’re looking at your cash level.

[00:31:01] TU: Great stuff, Tim. I’m going to make sure in the show notes we link to a few things. One, the Ask a YFP CFP episode where we talked about this as well. That was episode 93 of Ask a YFP CFP. We’ll link to the treasurydirect.gov website. Folks, lots of great information on there about the series I savings bonds, rates, terms, tax considerations, and so forth.

Then another thing I’m going to link to is, Michael Kitces has a blog called Nerd’s Eye View, and he had a blog out in December 8, 2021, series I savings bonds, some of the end of year consideration strategies. I thought there’s a lot of good information in there as well. We’ll link to that in the show notes.

For folks that are hearing this and wondering, “Hey, how might this fit into the financial plan?” As well as other things that you’re working through, whether that be debt management, whether that be saving and investing for the future, insurance considerations, estate planning tax, and so forth, the team at YFP planning would love to have an opportunity to talk with you further to determine if our services are a good fit for your financial planning needs. You can learn more at yfpplanning.com.

Thanks again for joining. Have a great rest your day.

[END OF EPISODE]

[00:32:02] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 238: The Mindset, Habits, and Behaviors of Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs

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The Mindset, Habits, and Behaviors of Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs

CEO of Kay Pharmacy and host of The Business Pharmacy Podcast, Mike Koelzer, joins Tim Ulbrich to discuss the mindset, habits, and behaviors of successful pharmacy influencers and entrepreneurs.

About Today’s Guest

Mike Koelzer is the host of “The Business of Pharmacy” podcast. In addition to hosting the podcast, Mike owns an independent pharmacy in Grand Rapids, Michigan. When not working, Mike enjoys spending time with his wife and 10 children, following the news, and improving his sight-reading at the piano.

Episode Summary

Today, Tim Ulbrich welcomes Mike Koelzer, CEO of Kay Pharmacy and host of The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, to the YFP Podcast to discuss lessons learned from his experiences interviewing pharmacy leaders. Mike has interviewed over 100 well-respected pharmacy influencers and entrepreneurs on his show. Today, he shares his takeaways on the mindset, habits, and behaviors of these individuals as they strive to be the best versions of themselves and create positive change in the profession of pharmacy! Mike shares some common threads his guests have in how they overcome fear and take calculated risks. You’ll get a peek into the daily habits of successful pharmacy influencers and entrepreneurs that lead to a mindset of success and whether those individuals believe that their success is attributed to luck or hard work. Hear him recount his professional pharmacy journey of more than 30 years in a family business and how he manages to balance his time while running a business, hosting a podcast, being a husband, and father to 10 children. This motivational episode is for anyone unsettled with the status quo and itching to take it to the next level personally and professionally.

Key Points From This Episode

How the family business started.
Hear about the creation of The Business of Pharmacy podcast.
Mike’s approach to maximizing his time each day, and how to use lists more efficiently.
What common threads Mike’s guests have, striving to achieve something great.
How focus and goal-setting are like sailing.
The amazing ways we are now able to receive feedback faster and pivot quicker.
Mike shares some actionable advice about how to get started with any new idea.
The general outlook most guests have on the pharmacy profession.
Talking about luck versus hard work.
A common thing that takes people out of just being satisfied with the status quo.
Mike’s strong advice for those who have dreams but are struggling financially.

Highlights

“Start focusing on something. And whether it’s a day later or a week later or a month later, you see that goal changing, [and] change it.” — Mike Koelzer, PharmD [0:13:32]

“You don’t have to monetize something right away for it to be valuable for your career. Sometimes it’s just getting off of TikTok and getting off the couch and putting out valuable content instead of just reading the content.” — Mike Koelzer, PharmD [0:36:19]

“If you’re married, make that relationship the most important thing in the world to you.” — Mike, Koelzer, PharmD [0:40:50]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here. Thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.

This week, I had a chance to sit down with Mike Koelzer, CEO of Kay Pharmacy and host of The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, as Mike has interviewed over 100 well respected Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs on his show. Today, I asked Mike about the takeaways he has had, from hearing about the mindset habits and behaviors of these individuals as they strive to be the best versions of themselves and leave a positive dent in the profession of pharmacy.

This episode is for anyone, students, residents, seasoned practitioners that are unsettled with the status quo and itching to take it to the next level personally and professionally. A few of my favorite moments from the episode are hearing Mike recount his own professional journey of 30 plus years in a family business, how he manages to balance his time running a business, hosting a podcast and being a husband and father to 10 children and his takeaways from interviewing influential leaders within our profession, on how they overcome fear and take calculated risks. Their daily habits that lead to a mindset of success and how they view how much of their success has been luck versus hard work.

I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40 plus states. YFP Planning offers, fee-only high touch financial planning that is customized to the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner, may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning financial planning services are a good fit for you, we know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:57] TU: Mike, welcome to the show.

[00:01:59] MK: Thank you, Tim.

[00:02:00] TU: Really excited to have the opportunity to share your story with the YFP Community, as we continue on this journey of trying to feature more and more pharmacy entrepreneurs on the podcast, to highlight some of the ways that a PharmD can be used. I like to say the PharmD is the starting point. It’s not the finish line and our interview today talking about your career journey and that of other pharmacists that you have interviewed is really a great, great example of that. So Mike, before we get into some of the lessons that you’ve learned from various influencers and entrepreneurs that you’ve interviewed on The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, tell us about your career journey as a pharmacist, including the role that you have currently as CEO of Kay Pharmacy.

[00:02:42] MK: Well, as my dad would say, our business is a family business, but it runs best on having one benevolent dictator. So it’s questionable if I’m that person, but my grandpa started and my dad was there until he passed on there. I’m the only family person to speak of. I have some children that work there, but I was never a fan of going into this with my siblings. That’s part of the reason maybe why I chose pharmacists, because I came from a family of 12 children and I was down at the bottom of the children as far as age goes.

So I maybe subconsciously – once I realized that none of my siblings were going into it, and also that my dad would then be at the age where he would not be around for a long time, because it’s okay to have a partner, but if I don’t need it. And I thought that maybe five or 10 years would be enough and not a 30 year period with him. I went into pharmacy, took a while. Tim, you and I talked on my podcast about bouncing around different things. I finally got my pharmacy degree, which is a five year degree back then, in seven years, I guess. I had done a few different things in there.

So basically, I joined the family business and worked with my dad for a while till he passed away. So I’ve been running the show for the last 20 some years, where I typical corner pharmacy. I suppose that’s what pulled me out of that. Doing some of this stuff, taking advantage of social and podcasts and things to maybe break out more into the world, because I knew that my area of influence, I suppose, was fairly small in my city. I think that’s what broke me out into the internet more with the podcast.

[00:04:29] TU: My time is something I often think about as a father of four. I can’t stack up as your father-of-10. I’ve come to really appreciate with a young family that that time is finite. We all have the same amount of time available each day. I think when you stop and think about that, that we all have the same amount of time available each day. It really at least for me has changed my mindset around, how am I making the most of this day. I think for many, especially me, pharmacists that are more task-oriented, that have developed ways to become more efficient with their time so that they can complete more tasks. But I have found that that often ends up in a spiral of just more and more tasks to complete.

However, I think if there’s finding ways that we can create more time, as Rory Vaden says, and one of my favorite books Procrastinate on Purpose, doing things today that save time tomorrow, and therefore increases our time available. As someone who owns their own business, as someone who’s a father of 10 kids, hostess of a successful podcast, what has been your approach for making the most of each day and ultimately, the limited amount of time that you have?

[00:05:41] MK: Dropping a book in here early, David Allen, Getting Things Done. That was a huge book for me. What I loved about what he teaches is that, the real reason for lists, which are a very important part of my day, a very active do-list. The main reason for that is not to get things done. It’s to know what you’re not getting done exactly when you’re taking that free time to create, and whether that’s creating a podcast or exercising or practicing piano or just screwing off, but you know exactly what you’re not doing. Then when it’s time to come back and get to work, you’re ready to roll.

The do-list for me has never been so much a list of difficult things to get done or monotonous things to get done, but it’s allowed me to have that free time and those goals that I have, go right onto that list. So I have a goal every day, it says practice the piano and do this and do that. Even the fun, relaxing goals are tasks out. Again, the whole thing is not to necessarily get things done. It’s to allow that free space in your head, that creative space to do things, knowing that your important tasks will be waiting for you when you get back.

[00:07:08] TU: Absolutely right. I think there’s freedom in being able to see those things on paper, sometimes giving yourself permission to not do things, but also to make sure you’ve got the right things prioritize as well. I know for me, and it sounds largely for you as well, like getting that out of our head onto paper, so we can start to see it and prioritize it as well.

Mike, as you mentioned, I recently came on your show Business Pharmacy Podcast, we’ll link to that in the show notes, to talk about the ROI of the PharmD. Great discussion. After doing that recording, I was reflecting on all of the movers, shakers and entrepreneurs in pharmacy that you have interviewed and the insights that you must have to share from those conversations, being an aggregator of some great minds. 135 episodes at the time of this recording that you’ve done. So first of all, congratulations, you know that’s no small feat. That’s really awesome. So I’m going to use this episode to pick your brain about the lessons learned from being in the interviewer seat talking with some of the great minds in our profession.

So for those that are familiar with the How I Built This podcast and book by Guy Raz from NPR. I view Mike as the Guy Raz in pharmacy, who has had not only his own experiences to draw from, but a lot of insights that he’s gained from picking the minds of lots of folks that we can certainly all learn from. Some of the individuals you’ve interviewed, Mike, are folks that own their own business. Others don’t, but the thread that I see is folks that are on a mission to achieve something great, that likely aligns with a strong vision that they have and a personal why and motivation for the work that they’re doing.

So one of my passions, is trying to understand what makes folks tick. And today, we’re going to get your viewpoint on that with some of the folks that you have interviewed. So first question out of the gate, since we talked about education on your podcast, in the ROI of the Pharmacy Degree, what threads if any, do you see in the folks that you’ve interviewed? Some of these that we would consider to be movers and shakers, pushing the envelope and the professional pharmacy, threads that you see and their view on education, either the background of getting education formal or even on their philosophy of continuous learning and professional development?

[00:09:20] MK: I guess, I’ve never seen a real strong emphasis on a certain degree or getting a certain amount of education or getting a certain degree. I think the value that I’ve seen from my guests, and a lot of them are PhDs and PharmDs of course and across the board, attorneys and so on. I think, the value I’ve seen in them has been that they are goal-oriented people and that’s what college has done for them. And advanced degrees, that they’re goal-oriented. That shows I think, that’s the, whether it’s the chicken or the egg, but I think when you see that degree, you’ve seen a purposeful goal that they’ve done.

I think the other thing it shows is, besides just a goal, I think it shows that they’re able to niche down to the market and they’re able to focus. I think that’s been very important too and in fact, when I look for guests, so out of the hundred and some guests, my listeners don’t want to hear just about a good pharmacist, even though a good pharmacist is of course, very important. I know the most interesting guest and I know the listeners, and I always think about what am I going to title this show. I can’t just title a show A Good Pharmacist, I have to for the purpose of the show notes or not the show notes, but the title, I have to say, this is what we’re talking about. This is the niche. This is the goal of the show.

I think that all of my guests, and I think the one the guests that I’ve been attracted to, to get on the show have always been in their schooling, in their job, even coming on the show. There’s always been that focus to that niche and to that point and to that goal, and I think that’s probably the overall personality I’ve seen of everybody in the show has been niching down, going for a goal, moving forward, pointing towards a target that target might switch, but it’s pointing towards a target.

[00:11:45] TU: You mentioned focus, Mike which I recently read something from Tim Ferriss, he’s got a great, short PDF document, we’ll link to in the show notes called 17 Questions That Changed My Life or questions that he asked himself at various pivot points in his life. One of those which I like to think about, and I’m going to ask you about, what you maybe have heard from other folks in terms of focus. One of those questions is, if I could only work two hours per week on my business or in some cases within my organization, what would I be doing with that two hours? Now, of course, it’s intentionally dramatic, right? To get us thinking about the most prioritized, focus, valuable use of our time that has a greatest return on investment.

As you mentioned, some of these folks that have a strong ability to focus, what do you think these folks would decide in terms of distilling down the time available and prioritizing the tasks that are most important to them and the work that they’re doing?

[00:12:42] MK: Here’s the problem with focus, Tim, is that when we focus, it’s like it’d be easy for the naysayer to say, “Yeah, but what if you’re making the wrong focus? What if you’re going down the wrong path?” I don’t see it that way. I see that – it may be cliched, but I see it as getting onto a boat, you can sit there on shore forever and say “What if I’m steering in the wrong direction?” It’s like, “Yeah, fair enough.” You might go in the wrong direction if you get on the boat and start steering, but if you don’t, you’re just going to be sitting on the shore forever.

I’m always thinking, get on the boat, push off, show yourself that you know how to sail, show yourself that you’re able to leave the confidence of the shore and start going somewhere. Start focusing on something, and whether it’s a day later or a week later or a month later, you see that goal changing, change it. I’m a big fan of Jordan Peterson, a psychologist online and his rule of thumb is, make a goal and if you find out that you want to switch to that goal, ask yourself this one question, “Am I switching to something easier or maybe to something even more focused and more challenging?”

If it’s something easier, well maybe you just have to rethink the purpose of goal setting and go back and reevaluate why you’re maybe not able to set a goal. But if it’s something more focused and more difficult, that’s probably a good sign. I think the main thing I’ve seen from a lot of my guests is, I think it’d be hard for me to maybe say what do they do for two hours of day that’s very valuable for them. I think more generally, I can say they all seem not only goal focus, but they’re moving and they’re willing to pivot not to something easier but to something harder.

[00:14:37] TU: You’re willing to take action, willing to step into it, right? Willing to have to pivot. I think all of those are great things and when you mentioned get in the boat, right? Get in the boat start sailing. I think that’s just great, great wisdom. I read several years ago at the very beginning of my journey, starting YFP, Start by Jon Acuff and that was the book that really just sent me over the edge of like. I was very much and always been an idea person, but quickly the objections might come in the fears, the risks, what’s this going to look in five years? What about this? It was like, enough. Just get started.

That’s the advice I give to folks often to have an idea, business within the organization side hustle, whatever. What is really the true risk? Let’s evaluate that, let’s put it on the table, let’s call it what it is, typically is not as big as we may build it up to be in our mind. Then let’s take a step forward without getting paralyzed in what this may or may not look like 12 months from now, because you and I both know that I could do my best to predict what YFP is going to look in 12 months in terms of both the challenges and successes. Some of it I have right and a bunch of things I could never predict.

[00:15:42] MK: It’s amazing, Tim. I tell my kids this all the time. It’s amazing the world we’re in right now, because even 20 years ago, if you had a business idea, especially if it was like a retail business idea. I mean, you’ve got maybe a business plan in your head, maybe a dream, but then you have to go rent the brick-and-mortar and buy the cash register and buy the sign and do all this stuff. Then harkening back to Tim Ferriss, in his Four Hour Workweek book, he talks about the beauty of like A/B Testing on Google, for example. You can even do it more easily now on social by just putting out a post, just writing a little article on LinkedIn, and maybe putting two of them out there a week apart in whichever one gets more thumbs up or more comments.

It’s like, “Oh, maybe the world needs more of this.” You focus and things like that and Boy, and as far as the actual technical part of it, you can buy 10 different URLs for a total of $20 for the first year trial or something that, and see which one gain some attraction, just an amazing time. As far as switching goals and pivoting and so on, we’ve never had a time like this in history where you could have those dreams and goals get feedback so easily, and then change direction. I’m not saying you should do it this fast, but you could change direction within 24 hours.

[00:17:14] TU: You’re spot on, Mike. I think the asterisk there is that, we can either look at that half-full, as we live in a time with no greater opportunity to do many of the things that you just mentioned to learn, anything that we want, right? Which wasn’t afforded at the same level and degree generations before us, but also there’s an infinite amount of material of things that we can digest. And to your common a focus that can be overwhelming and paralyzing, if we can’t distill it down and figure out what we’re going to be doing.

So that paralysis by analysis definitely can happen. Social media could be a good example. Mike you mentioned, some of these folks having an ability of what I heard, set goals, certainly an ability to get started on their journey, even if the end is not fully scripted or they’re not aware. You mentioned focus, are there other habits, disciplines that you have noticed in these folks that those listening could draw from of, these are some of the rhythms, these are some of the trends, these are some of the behaviors of these folks that might put them in the right mindset, to then be able to do some of those things of setting big goals and focusing and moving towards your vision?

[00:18:26] MK: I guess, one of the things that I see, and sometimes this can be taken to an extreme of faking it till you make it, but one of the things on the goal setting and what I’ve seen a lot of the guests do, it seems to me is it’s easy now, because we’re all with the internet and with social media. We’re all our own media company right now. So a lot of the people that have the goals, and I say this to my own team at the pharmacy, it’s like we’ve got the idea for this and on a small scale, I’m like, “All right, write up the procedure of what that would look like in real life, if we went down this road?” And quite often looking at it negatively, quite often they might say, “Yeah, we started writing this, we realize how in the hell would we – how can we check this for quality control or how could this happen?” It’s like, “Yeah. Well, I figured that, but I wanted you to see it on your own.”

On the positive note, how easy is it to go in and have this idea for something, whether it’s a business or whether it’s a personal goal of whatever, learning how to play tennis or something like that. But how easy is it to say, “Well, let’s picture this down the road and for the business part, maybe we make a website.” It’s not going to be published, just make it, just see if that works and make a sign up form online, just start picturing what this looks like, what this success would look like. Even before you have to take it to the market and get A/B testing across a real world, just in your own head.

I think the point on that is, it’s okay to have a goal, it’s okay to have thoughts, but move forward even if you’re not moving forward into the world at least move forward on your own damn computer by making a fake web page and making a fake whatever. I think that’s important. Along that same vein would be start writing. Start writing a book, start writing an article, go on LinkedIn, write an article. Anytime you’re doing that and you’re able to take those words out of your head and put them into paper, that’s a great thing.

It’s not great only for the world potentially and rarely it is, because how many of us are going to be, well besides yourself Tim, how many of us are going to be famous, well paid authors. That’s not the point. The point is can you get it onto paper and sometimes that is indicative of whether it’s just a dream up there or it’s something that could actually happen someday.

[00:21:09] TU: Mike, I think that’s really great advice and something that I’ve fallen into, but haven’t thought about as intentionally as you just described there. But whether it’s drafting a webpage, right, beating up a procedure and writing it out, getting some writing on paper, even if you don’t share that. I mean, I would encourage folks to share it, I think it would stimulate good conversation, but as you were talking it made me think of the importance that does in a few areas. One, it helps you to begin to validate the idea, right? Whether you get feedback on that or not but just because you’re going to start to develop it a little bit further.

The other thing is, it’s going to really help you start to beat up the idea that I have found when I do activities like that. I start to continue to think about it all throughout the day, right? To your comment earlier about goal setting, getting things down on paper, we get that out of our head, and we can start to see it for what it is and really take it to the next level to try to figure out, is there something here is there not. And I have found that when I start to do that, one of two things usually happens, either I can’t let the idea go for days, weeks, months, that’s a good sign, right? In terms of some of the energy passion or I put it down and I’m like, “Oh, my gosh. What was I thinking right?” As you start to flesh that out further and giving yourself some space to do that and start to see it, to play out. Love that, great stuff.

[00:22:31] MK: That’s quite often why I’ve heard it said that, as humans, if we were in solitary confinement or not able to see other humans, sometimes it would make you go crazy, literally crazy, because other humans are the way that, when you say something – if I say something crazy and I see someone’s face go into shock, it’s like, “Oh, I went too far in the human race” or “I guess I’m not stepping outside of what it means to be a decent person” and so on. I think that writing can do that too, because maybe you don’t have someone across from you listening to your three hour thesis on your new business, but just getting it down on paper, it forces yourself to get this fake, like another person even though it’s just the paper against yourself, but it forces you to say, I can’t even write anything on this. This must not make sense.

[00:23:24] TU: Then to distill it down, right? I think at least from my experiences, I tend to be very long-winded whether I communicate that externally, only to myself when I put something on paper, and then you start to say, “Okay, what’s the two or three –” taking a play from Steve Jobs, “What are the three things that folks need to take away from this? Have I clearly and succinctly and effectively communicated that?”

[00:23:46] MK: For sure.

[00:23:47] TU: Often I find that I don’t, right? That’s part of that process of doing that.

[00:23:51] MK: Yeah. If you can’t do that in yourself, how is the world going to listen to you through a real quick – social media scroll or a short blip online or something like that.

[00:24:02] TU: Mike, outlook of the profession, I think we’re at a time period – I have only been in the profession, started school in 2002, graduate in 2008. I certainly have seen in my short career, I would say some of the shift in the optimism of the future, the profession and what folks are looking at in terms of 10, 15, 20 years from now, some of the threats, some of the challenges around debt loads and salaries.

So I think we’re at this place where, when I talk with pharmacists, there tends to be a half glass, full half glass, empty feeling. Either that gloom and doom of, it’s inevitable things we talked about in your show Automation Technology, other providers coming into the space, writing’s on the wall, the challenges that we have, especially if we look at certain segments of the profession. Then I’ve been a part of many groups, organizations, associations and conversations with thought leaders that it’s very much they look at this as, “Yeah, those are real challenges, but that means it’s ripe for opportunity, disruption and innovation.” I’m curious from your viewpoint of interviewing some of these folks on your show, what is generally the outlook that they have on the profession of pharmacy?

[00:25:14] MK: Well, of course, Tim. I’m inviting people on that have typically their own goal or individual forward thinking goal inside of the profession. I’m the person that gets to sit on there and gripe about stuff. I don’t want to just have someone on there that just a general griper. As you and I talked a bit on our episode on, when we talked on my podcast, I think that anybody, going into any profession, whether it’s an architect or an attorney or whatever it is, I think anybody should go in saying, “I’ve got this idea that I want to get my degree and then do this novel thing or I want to invent this or I want to conquer the world with this goal.”

Now, is that going to happen? It doesn’t matter, in my mind, it doesn’t matter if that individual goal, but I think it shows somebody coming into a profession especially one that’s a lot of the money in there is paid by a third party where you’ve got someone else like pushing you down with their thumb, but when you go into a profession, when you’re an 18, or 20 year old, you want to go in with the idea that you want to change the world with something that 95% of that profession are not doing. I think what that does is, if that never happens, but at least it shows that you’re going in, that knowing that you’re not just going to be the status quo of the rest of the profession. Also, you do have a dream and if maybe that goal doesn’t work out with that degree, it shows the person you are that you are able to set goals and pivot and things like that.

The actual profession of pharmacy, it’s like, I’m an old guy that seen a lot of negative stuff in the profession, but the people that I’ve talked to, are the ones that are moving forward and doing things with a lot of success. But you’ve got to have that mindset. It’s not just going to come at you. You’ve got to be the person that we talked about from the beginning of this show, with these goals and ideas and fortitude and all that kind of stuff.

[00:27:33] TU: Yeah. I love what you shared there. We talked a little bit on your show as well. That idea of are you entering the profession with the expectation that you’re going to perhaps change, evolve, add something new, different and not entering into the status quo. That is a totally different mindset. Granted, I’ll give myself a little bit of grace, I went into the profession at 18, but as I think about how fast things are changing in our society, but in the profession of pharmacy as well, if you go in, it’s just such great advice, because if you go in with the mindset of entering into something status quo, and you’ve got 60 years to get to that finish line, maybe two more years if there’s additional training, like wow, that’s going to change, right? Even in that short period of time.

[00:28:19] MK: Right.

[00:28:20] TU: Mike, one of Guy Raz’s questions that he asks of every entrepreneur on How I Built This, and I just love hearing the variety of answers and how folks look at this, is how much of your success would you tribute to luck versus hard work? Luck versus hard work? So when you’ve interviewed these folks and I’m not asking if you’ve asked this question specifically, but just your perception of these individuals, the positions that they’ve been in, the success that they’ve had, the momentum, the mindset. How do you think they would respond to that question of how much of their success is luck versus hard work?

[00:28:57] MK: That’s a difficult question, because I think there’s always a sense of false humility in people. I think the natural first answer would be say, “Oh, it’s a lot of luck.” I think that people would say that to look good to cover the bases, then I think they would say, “Have been a hell of a lot of work into this.” Look around, no one else is doing it, I suppose. I look at myself, I think of, I wouldn’t be where I was without my grandpa and dad being in the business. That was luck of the draw. Then I guess what I would say for myself is that’s where the podcast has been a lot of fun for me, because that’s still luck in itself of having social media not having the middleman pushing you down, like the old TV networks, always had that middle person in that.

I guess, I would look around what I’ve done and say, “Oh, yeah. The podcast, maybe after 40 years in the industry.” Oh, yeah. The last year, that’s been hard work that got me above because I look at all my comrades. I said, “No one else did this.” It’s like, “Ah, okay. I’ll take a little bit of that.” I think most of the people that I would interview, I would think that a lot of luck, a lot of family status, how they were born, all those thing probably goes into saying, “Yeah, that helped me get my education and this and that.” I think most of them would probably say, “Yeah, but I did something pretty cool to get this going.” Whether it was, whatever the reason, I think at that point, they would say, that’s maybe where the hard work was, and maybe getting to the status quo was a lot of hard work, but also a lot of luck getting there.

[00:30:45] TU: Yeah. That’s right. Building on the status quo concept, I’m curious of your thoughts, individually in your own career or what you’ve heard from other folks. What takes someone over the edge of just being satisfied with the status quo and playing it safe? I’m thinking about how have these individuals or yourself address their own fears about failure, about not being significant enough, about not being able to achieve a goal and then had made a decision to take some calculated risk that moves beyond the position of status quo? What are your thoughts there?

[00:31:21] MK: I would probably say that almost everybody I have interviewed has built what they have from an area of pain, whether they think it’s their own failed goals in their day to day business or whether they think someone screwed them over. I think that pain has pushed all of these people to where they are. I think there’s a lot of beauty that comes from that pain, because without that pain, you would have probably been at status quo, which might have been okay, but maybe not see the joy in some of these people’s eyes.

I know, for me, if it wasn’t the PBMs and all the problems with stuff and all this, I wouldn’t have done my podcast, let’s say that was a mini goal of mine. I wouldn’t have done that, because I would have been so busy, I would have been content, I would have been all that. I think probably if you look back across history, to all the explorers and everybody who’s either found a country or found a business, it probably started with some pain.

[00:32:19] TU: Mike, speaking of pain. Financial pain is top of mind for me, not only my own journey, but what I see in our community of some of the stress that that can cause and one’s ability to be able to achieve their full potential and the goals that they have. So I think lots listening might get enthused by this conversation, but fairly quickly start to think of the objections to why they, themselves can’t take some calculated risks.

Of course, the one again, I’m interested in here is the financial aspect, but could be met many other objections as well. As I mentioned, on your show a lot of good ideas and dreams die with financial stress. I believe that wholeheartedly. So what would you say to the folks listening that are like, “Mike, I’ve got an idea. I’m excited about something not exactly sure where it’s going to go.” If you’re really passionate about doing X, Y, or Z, “But Mike, I’m behind retirement savings. Mike, I’ve got $200,000 of student loan debt. Mike, I’ve got a young family and all the expenses that come with that. Mike, I’m taking care of my elderly parents while also trying to take care of my children.” How do you reconcile that?

[00:33:27] MK: I would say you’ve got to play both sides of that. You’ve got to go to work from nine to five, come home, have dinner with the family, read to your kids, give him a bath, put him to bed. Then you’ve got from 10 PM until 1 AM, to make that work, as we talked earlier, what a great time. I mean, you can, you’ve got your own production studio at your home and no complaints, because the dog sleeping and the kids are in bed and all that stuff and the wife’s watching Hallmark movies on TV. I mean, that’s your time.

So there’s no better time. I don’t think there’s any excuse to not do that. The better part of it is, we just talked about that. It’s like you don’t want to do what they did in the past of selling everything, so you could buy a brick-and-mortar and open up a shop and buy a sign and all the stuff that goes along with that. You don’t want that, because then you can’t pivot. There’s never been a better time for people to put in their two or three hours, hopefully, it’s something that they would enjoy too, but that can all be done and I think there’s never a better time for that, to try these things out.

[00:34:43] TU: Yeah. Mike, I found personally, when I feel stuck, when I start giving myself excuses as to why I can’t do something when I come up with a list of objections. I usually go back to that means, my ‘why’ envision is not strong enough. It’s not compelling enough or it is but I need to remind myself have that. Maybe that resonates with folks, maybe it doesn’t, but I would encourage folks, if you feel stuck and again I’m not suggesting that everyone should go out and start their own business.

I think, there’s many opportunities to obviously be the best that you can within your position to create to innovate, to move things forward, rather than just showing up and going through the motions. But if you feel stuck, if you feel there’s objections that are coming to the mind, if there’s excuses that are there, is your vision, is your why strong enough? I just think that’s something I try to reflect on often.

[00:35:33] MK: Yeah. I think, there’s a lot of things you can do that you don’t necessarily monetize that can very much help that end goal of your finances down the road. I mean, for example, I haven’t monetized my podcast at this point yet, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a financial value. Because let’s say, God forbid that I lose the store tomorrow or something happens or I choose to go to the store tomorrow.

Now, I’ve talked to 135 people and one of them being you, Tim. Not only have I talked to them, they’ve spent a couple hours with me. I’ve sent emails back and forth and this and that, the same with whether it’s writing an article or doing whatever online. You don’t have to monetize something right away for it to be valuable for your career. Sometimes it’s just getting off of TikTok and getting off the couch and putting out valuable content instead of just reading the content.

[00:36:34] TU: Yeah. Back to your comment earlier, even if it means just opening up a Google doc on your screen and not hitting publish yet. Don’t underestimate the energy that comes from sitting down, getting your thoughts on paper, beating him up and the momentum and compound effect that, that can have over time. Mike, I’m going to put you on the hot seat with some of my favorite questions and rapid fire style from Tim Ferriss book, Tribe of Mentors. You ready for this?

[00:37:00] MK: All set.

[00:37:01] TU: All right.

[00:37:02] MK: Born ready.

[00:37:04] TU: What is the book that you’ve recommended most are given as a gift and why is that the case?

[00:37:11] MK: I already talked about it, Getting Things Done by David Allen. It lets you create the free space in your head. You can be creative and get out of the mundane tasks that would typically overwhelm somebody.

[00:37:25] TU: I want to come back to you, you mentioned Jordan Peterson, is there something specific you like of his work or follow?

[00:37:31] MK: Jordan Peterson, there’s two books I would recommend. One is his, 12 Rules for Life. Then his second book is basically another 12 rules. Jordan spends a lot of time talking about something. He’s a psychologist, psychiatrist. One of the things I love most about Jordan Peterson, he spends a lot of time talking about the division or that step between chaos and order. There’s a beautiful line between chaos and order where I love to live.

You know what it is, it’s either, you’re either bored at work, some people are bored at work or there’s too much to do at work, but there’s this really sweet line in the middle, whether it’s work or hobby or something like that, where you get lost in time a little bit. That’s where it’s just a sweet spot and that’s where we want to live. That’s what I love so much about him, is just that line between order and chaos and sweet line that really makes life interesting. He’s a huge influence of mine or a huge influence to me, I should say.

[00:38:38] TU: Yeah. No, that’s good. Failure is, there’s a specific favorite failure of yours?

[00:38:45] MK: My biggest failure, if I could look back, was saying that I spent too much time worrying, too much anxious time. That doesn’t necessarily go away just by effort. It goes away, maybe by professional help and maybe goes away with medication and it goes away with a lot of reading and things that. So I don’t know if I’d call it a failure, but I’d call it my biggest cross. I think that, I’m turning it into some beautiful things and I still hope to, but I’ve spent too much time in my head and not always enough time present.

[00:39:36] TU: Mike, that’s really reassuring. As a young father, that’s something I’ve identified early in my career is the difficulty I have with presence. I’ve just realized our last five years through talking more of this out loud, reading coaches and others, one being aware of it and then two taking baby steps to move things in a different direction, but really uncovering that and making it a priority. Really appreciate you mentioned in the beauty that you’re turning that into.

[00:40:05] MK: Yeah. That’s not all. I mean, it’s not your fault. I mean, when you’re with your family but away from them mentally, you’ve got a lot of stress on you and you’re basically trading that current time for the future. You’re thinking about how are you going to whatever, feed your family or at least deal with a situation that ultimately is maybe you don’t dealing with someone ultimately, it’s because there may be in the way of taking care of your family and things. It’s not something that you have to beat yourself up over, but it is something that’s been my biggest cross.

[00:40:37] TU: Mike, if you get a gigantic billboard, anywhere, with anything on it, metaphorically speaking, getting a message out to millions or billions of people, what would it say and why?

[00:40:48] MK: I probably say, it would say, if you’re married, make that relationship the most important thing in the world to you. I’ll start there, because a lot of people – if you’re not married, stealing from Jordan Peterson, I would say clean your room. Get your room cleaned up. If you are married, I would say make that relationship the primary thought on your mind at all times, because it’s easy to save the world as you’re stepping over a bunch of crap around your bedroom. You can’t even get that cleaned up. It’s easy to save the world when your wife and or your husband and you are – when that relationship doesn’t mean much to you. I would say, I would say a billboard would say “Work on your marriage.”

[00:41:34] TU: Clean up your room. I love that too. That’s a great plot to be thinking about. Last one here, Mike. When you feel overwhelmed, unfocused, again, you’ve got a lot of different things going on or even have lost your focus temporarily. What are some things that you do to get back on track?

[00:41:48] MK: Probably the biggest thing is always getting everything on my one do-list, computerized do-list. So it doesn’t happen too often, but when things are really flustered, the first thing I do is collect all my thoughts, all my papers, all my whatever, it all goes on the list. Until it’s on the list, then you can start to prioritize, you see what’s important, doesn’t keep going through your head. It’s all in that list and then you can say, all right, my world is right there. Let’s take a look at it. That can happen through, you can have a crazy hour at work, you got to get back to your list. A crazy week got to get back to your list, hopefully not a crazy year, but if you do, you get back to your list. At least look in one spot for everything and then you can go from there.

[00:42:35] TU: We’re going to link, you’ve mentioned it a few times now, Getting Things Done. We’ll link to that book in the show note, as clearly that work by David Allen has had a really important impact on you. Mike, this has been great, really appreciate the conversation, the work that you’re doing at The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, the work that you’re doing for our profession, and really being a microphone to bringing the voice of many different leaders and influencers and making that available to other folks. So number one, thank you. Number two, where is the best place that our listeners can go to learn more about you and the work that you’re doing?

[00:43:06] MK: I would just say on LinkedIn. Just my name on LinkedIn, that’ll take you to my thing. I’ve got stuff on there. I guess the official probably going to my podcast. I have a URL, but basically look up, The Business of Pharmacy Podcast, and I’d be fun to have people join in there too.

[00:43:24] TU: Awesome. We’ll link to your LinkedIn as well as The Business of Pharmacy Podcast in the show notes. Thanks so much again, Mike.

[00:43:30] MK: My pleasure, Tim. Thanks for all you’re doing.

[OUTRO]

[00:43:31] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast and important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date publish. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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YFP 237: 5 Financial Moves to Make to Crush Your 2022 Goals

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5 Financial Moves to Make to Crush Your 2022 Goals

Tim Ulbrich talks through 5 financial moves you should consider making in 2022 to accelerate your financial plan.

Episode Summary

Every New Year is a chance to turn the page and reset. That means this new year is the perfect opportunity to refocus those financial goals and clarify your plan and vision moving forward! This week, host Tim Ulbrich is flying solo to talk through five financial moves you should be making in 2022 to accelerate your financial plan or re-energize and remind yourself of the plan and goals you’ve set up. Hear about the importance of setting quantitative and qualitative financial goals and how to strike a balance between both. Discover some ideas for how you can button up your financial record-keeping systems and use the turn of the New Year as a chance to revisit and update those important financial documents. Learn about the importance of a legacy folder, what it is, and why it’s important to revisit each year. Tim also talks through some considerations on optimizing your tax strategy in 2022. He also takes a quick moment to touch on the end of the administrative forbearance, which is right around the corner, and what it could mean for your student loans.

Key Points From This Episode

How to take advantage of this time to reset, refocus, or create your financial plan.
Finding the balance between your qualitative and quantitative goals.
Tim offers to be your accountability partner.
How to take your tax strategy to the next level.
Updating your important financial documents: what is a legacy folder and why you should get one.
Revisiting your student loan game, plus some great resources to help.
Set your personal learning plan with our top book and podcast recommendations.
A reminder of the YFP services and community available to support your financial journey

Highlights

“Quantitative goals are really important: we need to be thinking about those and planning for those. But let’s not lose sight of those qualitative goals that help keep us focused on living that rich life today while also planning for the future.” — Tim Ulbrich, PharmD [0:04:14]

“Tax, in my opinion, is one of the most underappreciated and overlooked parts of the financial plan. Think of tax as a thread that runs across your financial plan that must be proactively considered and evaluated when making financial moves.” — Tim Ulbrich, PharmD [0:06:00]

“At YFP one of our core values is optimize you. We believe that when we live as the best version of ourselves, we’re more likely to achieve our goals.” — Tim Ulbrich, PharmD [0:13:38]

“Learning is one thing, but learning plus action plus accountability is where things really start to happen.” — Tim Ulbrich, PharmD [0:14:47]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey everybody. Tim Ulbrich here. Happy New Year. Thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday season, has had a chance to reflect on 2021 and is ready to chart a path forward for 2022. This week, I’m flying solo to talk through five financial moves that you should consider making in 2022 to accelerate your financial plan.

Specifically, I talk through the importance of setting both quantitative and qualitative financial goals, some ideas for how you can button up your financial record keeping systems, and use the turn of the New Year as a chance to revisit and update those important financial documents, considerations for how to optimize your tax situation in 2022. And, briefly, I talk through some of the considerations around student loans considering the end of the administrative forbearance that is right around the corner.

Before we hear from today’s sponsor, and then jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does, in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40 plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner, may help you achieve your financial goals. You can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP planning, these financial planning services are a good fit for you, we know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

[EPISODE]

[00:01:40] TU: Happy New Year to the YFP Community. Let’s jump right in with five financial moves that you may consider in 2022. Now we know that every New Year is a chance to turn the page, to reset. Yes, it’s just an artificial point in time and day that really is no different than any other day except for some tax reasons and for those of you that might have some benefits that are changing compensation and so forth with the New Year. But really it’s any other day of the year, right? However, it’s an opportunity for us that we can take advantage to reset our financial plan, to refocus where we’re trying to go in both defining and achieving our financial goals.

Perhaps for some of you, you’re listening and saying, “No, I feel pretty good. I feel like I’m on track.” This might be an opportunity to remind yourself of the plan that you’ve set, and celebrating some of the success and wins that you’ve had along the way. For others, maybe you’re listening to this, saying, “You know what, at one point, I had a good plan, but I feel like I’m off track for whatever reason.” This is an opportunity, of course, to reset that course and make sure we’ve got that vision clear heading into the year.

Finally, for those that are saying, “What plan?” Rightfully so, for many that – multiple competing financial priorities, perhaps feeling overwhelmed with how to best tackle those individual priorities and to put them all together in one plan moving in the same direction. Today is an opportunity to begin to set that path, to put those ideas, those priorities on paper and begin to have that plan for how we’re going to execute those into the future. Let’s walk through five financial moves that you may consider either making or perhaps for those of you that already doing some of these things to refresh or improve in these areas.

Number one, is setting both quantitative and qualitative financial goals. Shout out here to the planning team at YFP Planning that does an awesome job of finding the balance between living a rich life today and caring for our future self. As Tim Baker says, “It can’t just be about the ones and zeros in the bank account.” As you say, your financial goals for 2020. Yes, let’s focus on those important quantitative things. The things that we talk about often on this show, could be how much you want to move the needle on the net worth or your assets minus liabilities. What we talked about in the book, Seven Figure Pharmacists, is your financial vitals check, or perhaps you’re thinking about how much progress you’re going to make on any outstanding debt, or how much you plan to save and various investment accounts.

Or for those of you that have been thinking about real estate investing for some time, after listening to David and Nate, on the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, maybe you’ve been thinking about how much you need to save to pull the trigger on that first property. Those quantitative goals are really important. We need to be thinking about those and planning for those. But let’s not lose sight of those qualitative goals that help keep us focused on living that rich life today while also planning for the future.

Perhaps, we have some newlyweds that are listening, that have a long lost honeymoon to take that the pandemic disrupted? What’s the plan to make that a reality and who is keeping you accountable? Or for some, maybe you’ve been considering making a move to part time or reducing hours for whatever reason. Again, what’s the opportunity here? Have we evaluated that? What’s the plan to begin to see that through? Or how about those interests and hobbies that we used to long for, resuspend time on and prioritized that have gotten lost in the busyness of life and work? How is that going to be a priority and a focus? Perhaps that side hustle business, project that you’ve been dragging your feet on to take the first step on.

Let’s make this year, 2022, the year that we move the needle on both our quantitative and qualitative goals. While goals are good accountability is where it’s at. I’ve seen the power of accountability in my own life, and I want to see you achieve your 2020 financial goals. Here’s my offer. If you email me with one to two of your top goals, perhaps one qualitative and one quantitative, along with your why and motivation for achieving that goal. I’ll reach out a couple times this year to check in, see how you’re doing and perhaps provide some motivation along the way. You can send me an email [email protected], put Episode 237 with your first name in the subject line, so I don’t miss it. I look forward to hearing from several of you.

All right, so that’s number one, setting both are quantitative and qualitative goals. Number two is we have to take our tax strategy to the next level. Tax, in my opinion, is one of the most underappreciated and overlooked parts of the financial plan. Think of tax as a thread that runs across your financial plan that must be proactively considered and evaluated when making financial moves. Now, it sounds so obvious, but I used to view tax very much in the rear-view mirror. Filing each year by April 15, to meet the IRS requirements, and to account for what happened the previous year, and ultimately hold my breath and I would either get a refund aka paid too much throughout the year, let someone else hold on my money for a while, or I’d have a payment due. Less than ideal for obvious reasons, and indicative that I could have done more proactive planning.

So we need to shift our attention from tax preparation to tax planning. A very important distinction, that YFP Director of Tax and IRS Enrolled Agent Paul Eikenberg talked about on episode 233 of the podcast, along with other strategies for how to optimize your tax situation. If you don’t already know your key numbers, things like your marginal tax rate, your effective tax rate, your adjusted gross income. It’s time to nerd out a little bit. Let’s make a commitment this year to start there. These numbers help give us insights in the why tax planning and being proactive is so important. AGI one example, Adjusted Gross Income has important implications on student loan payments, especially for those that are pursuing public service loan forgiveness through an income driven repayment plan and of course, certain phase outs on child childcare credits, IRA contribution, student loan interest deduction, and more.

Some of the common mistakes that we run into, some that I’ve made myself is, number one, having an unexpected balance due on April 15. Less than ideal. This could be due to under withholding throughout the year, perhaps on accounting for self-employment earnings and tax and unique this year would be for those that have been taking advance child credits and making sure that we’re accounting for that, and expecting that, when we go to file in early this spring.

Another common mistake that we see, number two is having non-qualified IRA or 401K, 403B contributions from over contributing. This obviously creates a lot of headaches for both the prepare, as well as for the individual to correct and misunderstanding of the rules around Roth and traditional phaseouts, is often what is causing this problem. Number three in terms of common mistakes, would be missing deductions and credits that are applicable. So of course, beyond these mistakes, there’s opportunities to optimize our situation. HSAs, Health Savings Accounts, we talked about this on Episode 165, in terms of the power of an HSA and why from a tax standpoint, this is one of those optimization strategies.

Other optimization strategies we see that is frequent among clients, would be deducting qualified business related expenses for those that are side hustling or for those that own a business. And of course, the many benefits that are available for those that have children or childcare expenses, including the childcare credit dependent care FSAs, child tax credits in 529. As Paul helped me understand some of the strategies for bunching itemized deductions for further tax efficiency. It’s easy to see the value of a good proactive tax plan and why it’s worth its weight in gold. So for those that have not yet checked out Episode 233, Hot Optimizer Tax Strategy, I hope you’ll do that.

Also, we understand at YFP that filing your taxes and figuring out how to optimize your strategy can be stressful. That’s why YFP tax this year is opening up its tax filing services to 125 additional pharmacist households. So you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/tax to learn more, put your name on the waitlist and we’ll be in touch from there. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/tax.

Number three is, button up your financial documents. Not necessarily the most exciting part of financial plan but the New Year is a great time that we revisit things\ like our insurance policies, our savings accounts, retirement accounts, looking at beneficiaries. Is that information correct or do we need to update anything?

I also think here about the concept of a legacy folder. I first heard of the idea of legacy folder when taking Dave Ramsey’s FPU, Financial Peace University class. I remember thinking, “Wow, it’s so obvious, yet so important.” And something that my wife, Jess, and I had not done yet at the time. Essentially, the idea of a legacy folder, whether it’s physical electronic or both, is a place where you have all of your financial related documents, so that in the event of emergency, others would be able to quickly assess your financial situation, get access to those documents and accounts that pertain to your finances. This type of folder could include things like birth certificates, social security cards, marriage certificates, passports, insurance policies, wills and powers of attorney, login information for accounts and so on.

I think one of the benefits of putting this document together is, it also tends to spur good conversation that might allow you to also look at other parts of the plan that have been either ignored or just perhaps need to be updated. Speaking of some of the wills and powers of attorneys, we think about the estate planning side of the financial plan. That’s another part I think, about hearing “Buttoning up your financial documents.” If you haven’t yet, listened to Episode 222, Why Estate Planning is Such an Important Part of Financial Plan. We had Nathan and Notesong from Thoughtful Wills, to talk about the different parts of the estate plan, why that’s so important, who should be considering the estate planning process and how that fits in to the rest of your financial plan. Again, not the most exciting part of the plan to think about, but really important, and using the New Year is an opportunity to refresh or to set that information for the first time.

Number four is, revisit your student loan game plan. Now, what we know as of the first of the year, is that the extension of the administrative forbearance is expiring January 31st, 2022. Now is the time. We’ve got to have a plan in place. We had several extensions of that forbearance dating back to the beginning of the pandemic in March 2020 and all signals are pointing to that, this is the end. Last week Episode 236, certified Financial Planner, Lead Planner at YFP Planning, Kelly Reddy-Heffner joined me to talk about some common questions around Student Loan Refinancing, including who should and should not refinance, how you evaluate multiple offers, some of the considerations for refinance as one of many different repayment options that are out there. And some of the timing questions of when potentially to refinance, as we look at the end of that administrative forbearance period.

This is a great time. I’ve talked many times on this show, as we reiterated last week, that the decisions around student loan repayment – we think about the average debt of a pharmacy graduate today as around $170,000. We think about not only the amount of that debt, but the various options that are available both federal private forgiveness, non-forgiveness, taking the time to understand the nuances of student loan repayment and to ultimately find and adopt the strategy that is best for your personal situation is time well spent.

If you’re looking for more information about which student loan repayment option is best for your personal situation, looking for one-on-one help to make that decision, we have a student loan analysis service that we offer. You can learn more at yourfinancialpharmacist.com/sla. This is a one-on-one service that we have with one of our certified financial planners at YFP planning that will help you inventory your loans, federal and private, evaluate eligible repayment options including loan forgiveness, income driven repayment, private refinancing. And ultimately help you determine the best repayment strategy for your personal situation. Again, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/sla and you can use the coupon code why YFP for 10% off.

Number five is, set your learning plan. At YFP one of our core values is optimize you. We believe that when we live as the best version of ourselves, we’re more likely to achieve our goals, and we believe that for ourselves for our team and for you, the YFP Community. So what are some opportunities to learn? Of course, podcasts, you’re listening to this one. For those that are interested in in real estate investing, I hope you have checked out the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast that David Bright and Nate Hedrick are doing a great job releasing episodes each Saturday. Bigger Pockets, another great resource if you’re looking at information resources on real estate.

Some of the books that might make it to your reading list in 2022. Some of the classics my favorites, Rich Dad Poor Dad, The Millionaire Next Door. A couple other books that have been favorites of mine over the past couple years, The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy, The Truth About Money by Ric Edelman. Tax Free Wealth by Tom Wheelwright, for those that are looking to date a little bit more into the tax strategy and part of the plan. The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach, The Behavioral Investor, by Daniel Crosby. Happy Money, this one by Elizabeth Dunn and Michael Norton, Looking at the Science of Happier Spending. So just a few ideas of ways that you can learn, in terms of personal finance books.

Certainly learning is one thing, but learning plus action plus accountability is where things really start to happen. My hope is you’ll find a community and you’ll find a coach for accountability and guidance, if you’re not yet a part of the YFP Facebook Group, I hope you’ll join more than 7000 pharmacy professionals across the country that are really committed to helping empower and encourage one another in the financial plan. You can join that group if you’re not already part of it.

For those that are looking at one-on-one planning, YFP planning offers accountability and customization of the financial plan specific to pharmacy professionals, and you can learn more at yfpplanning.com, you can schedule a discovery call today to see whether or not those planning services are a good fit for you. Thank you so much for joining me. Again, Happy New Year to the YFP Community, looking to a great year that’s ahead. My hope is you will take these five financial moves for 2022 and begin to apply them in your own plan.

[OUTRO]

[00:15:41] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment, or any other advice. Information to the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation, or offer to buy or sell any investment, or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.

Furthermore, the information contained in our archive, newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.

For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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Month: January 2022

YFP 240: How & Why This Pharmacist Started a Business in the Middle of the Pandemic

How & Why This Pharmacist Started a Business in the Middle of the Pandemic

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YFP 239: Two Financial I’s You May be Overlooking

Two Financial I’s You May be Overlooking

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YFP 238: The Mindset, Habits, and Behaviors of Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs

The Mindset, Habits, and Behaviors of Pharmacy Influencers and Entrepreneurs

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YFP 237: 5 Financial Moves to Make to Crush Your 2022 Goals

5 Financial Moves to Make to Crush Your 2022 Goals

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