COVID-19 & Student Loans: What’s Next?
Adam Minsky, an attorney devoted to helping student loan borrowers and a Senior Contributor to Forbes, joins Tim Ulbrich on today’s episode. Adam talks about the student loan proposals that do and do not have momentum including The HEROES Act recently passed by the House, and what you should expect going forward as it relates to your own student loan repayment plan.
About Today’s Guest
Adam S. Minsky practices in Massachusetts and New York, and is one of the nation’s leading experts in student loan law. He remains one of the only attorneys in the country with a practice devoted entirely to helping student loan borrowers. Attorney Minsky provides counsel, legal assistance, and direct advocacy for borrowers on a variety of student loan-related matters, including repayment management, default resolution, and servicing troubleshooting. He has been interviewed by major national media outlets including The New York Times, NPR, The Boston Globe, The Washington Post, and The Wall Street Journal, and has been named a Massachusetts Super Lawyer “Rising Star” every year since 2015.
Attorney Minsky regularly speaks to students, graduates, and advocates about the latest developments in higher education financing, and he maintains a nationally recognized student loan blog, “Boston Student Loan Lawyer.” He has published three handbooks including The Student Loan Handbook for Law Students and Attorneys, published by the American Bar Association. Attorney Minsky is also a contributing author to the National Consumer Law Center’s manual, Student Loan Law, and he is a Senior Contributor to Forbes, where he writes about the latest developments in student loan law and policy.
Attorney Minsky received his undergraduate degree, with honors, in Philosophy and Political Science from Boston University, and his law degree from Northeastern University School of Law. He lives in Boston, Massachusetts.
Summary
There have been several government proposals to help support people that are facing financial challenges due to COVID-19. Adam Minsky, Massachusetts attorney devoted to helping student loan borrowers and a Senior Contributor to Forbes, shares a recap of the student loan provisions in the CARES Act, the provisions proposed in The HEROES Act, and what student loan borrowers might expect in the near future.
The CARES Act was recently passed in March which suspended all interest, payments, and collections on federal direct student loans until September 30, 2020. These $0 payments count for those that are on a path to forgiveness with their student loans, whether that be through PSLF or non-PSLF forgiveness. However, FFEL, Perkins and private student loans, among a few others, are not covered under this provision and borrowers have to continue making payments on those loans.
The House recently passed The HEROES Act, a $3 trillion stimulus package which includes several other provisions for student loans as well as other proposals for stimulus checks among several other components. Although this isn’t law and is unlikely to pass the Senate, it’s meant to be a starting place for conversation and bi-partisan compromise. Adam discusses the student loan provisions and amendments that have already been made to the proposal.
Adam also talks about what’s next for student loans, his viewpoints on the longevity of the PSLF program and how student loan borrowers can advocate for themselves.
Mentioned on the Show
- Take the Financial Fitness Test
- The Pharmacist’s Guide to Conquering Student Loans by Tim Church, PharmD
- There Are Now Five Plans to Forgive Student Loans – How Do They Compare? by Adam S. Minsky, Esq.
- Student Loan Servicers are Dinging Credit Reports for The CARES Act Forbearance by Adam S. Minsky, Esq.
- AnnualCreditReport.com
- The HEROES Act
- Boston Student Loan Lawyer
- Follow Adam Minsky on Forbes
- Follow Adam Minsky on Twitter
- Connect with Adam Minsky on LinkedIn
Episode Transcript
Tim Ulbrich: Hey, what’s up, everybody? Welcome to this week’s episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. It’s a pleasure to welcome Adam Minsky, a senior contributor for Forbes and attorney who founded the first consumer rights law practice in Massachusetts and New York devoted entirely to assisting people who have student loans. In addition to helping borrowers navigate the complex web of student loan repayment programs, Adam represents borrowers who have disputes with their loan holders or servicers and those who are facing economic hardship, default or collections. Adam has also provided various training and seminars on this important topic, authored multiple handbooks on student loan law and advised elected officials and consumer advocacy organizations on student loan legislation. In addition to his contributions on Forbes, he has been featured in the New York Times, NPR, Washington Post, and has been named a Massachusetts Super Lawyer Rising Star every year since 2015. He completed his undergraduate degree in philosophy and political science from Boston University and got his law degree from Northeastern University School of Law. Adam, welcome to the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast.
Adam Minsky: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Tim Ulbrich: Certainly appreciate your time and your expertise in this area. And as I mentioned in my email to you, today’s pharmacy graduates, many of whom are on the frontlines of COVID-19, have a median debt load of $170,000, are overwhelmed on how to manage this debt, so when I ran across your article on Forbes — which we’ll link to in the show notes — that there are now five plans to forgive student loans, how do they compare, I thought to myself, we need to have him on the show as our listeners would greatly appreciate his expertise and insights on this topic that impacts so many of our community members. So before, Adam, we talk about what might be, let’s talk about what we already know. So give us a quick recap of the student loan provisions that were in the CARES Act.
Adam Minsky: Sure. So the CAREST Act suspends all interest, all payments, and all collections activities on government-held federal student loans from March 13, 2020 to Sept. 30, 2020. So let’s break that down. That means first of all, only government-held federal loans are covered by that. So that includes federal direct loans and a small number of other types of federal loans that the Department of Education has at some point acquired or taken over. There are a large number of commercially-held older federal loans that we call guaranteed loans or FFEL, stands for Family Federal Education Loan Program loans. Those are federal loans that are guaranteed by the government but are not held by the government. Those are not covered. Federal Perkins loans issued by colleges and universities, those are not covered. Health professions loans are not covered. And private student loans are not covered. So there are a lot of borrowers who unfortunately aren’t getting full or complete relief from the CARES Act. But a lot of people are. And the interest suspension means that basically folks have a 0% interest rate and no payments are due on their loans. And what’s more is that — so typically when you have some sort of payment suspension through a forbearance or a deferment, those months don’t count towards anything. They don’t count towards loan repayment, they don’t count towards loan forgiveness. But the CARES Act has a specific exemption in place that says that if you were already on track for a program like a 20- or 25-year loan forgiveness under an income-driven plan or Public Service Loan Forgiveness that the months of suspension, the months when no payments are made, will still count towards those loan forgiveness programs. So that’s a unique benefit of the CARES Act as well.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, great summary about who is included, who is left out, and a mention of those payments counting toward for forgiveness, which I know will impact many of our listeners and certainly a benefit for those that are pursuing that route. You recently released an article, Adam, which we’ll link to in the show notes, with reports about how student loan servicers are dinging credit reports for the CARES Act forbearance, even though this shouldn’t in theory be happening. And people have been assured that it shouldn’t be happening. So tell us more about this.
Adam Minsky: Yeah, so it’s sort of an evolving story. You know, so I started hearing about this from some clients, some other consumer advocates started hearing about it, some news sources started doing some investigations. But it sounds like some loan servicers were improperly reporting the loan status, either in a nonpayment or in some cases possibly even a delinquent status. And according to the provisions of the CARES Act, there’s nothing that says it should be reported that way. And the Department of Ed has actually confirmed that the loan should be reported as normal, as paid as agreed. So some folks apparently have seen a credit ding or a reduction in their score. Now, at least one of the services, Great Lakes Higher Education, put out a statement saying that they’re working on accurately reporting all credit report information and the loan status in accordance with the law. I know at least one of my clients did see a restoration of his score back to what it was before. So it looks like if there are issues, it’s being addressed. But another consumer advocate theorized that because this had to be implemented so quickly, it’s possible that some loan servicers sort of on the back end, there may have been some issues in terms of how the loans were being reported to credit bureaus for certain borrowers. So it’s concerning, but I’m hoping that it’s temporary and it will be addressed and fixed soon.
Tim Ulbrich: And I think, Adam, as you outlined in your article, this was just a good reminder for me and a good reminder for our community of why checking your credit report and understanding your credit score is an important thing to be doing, regardless of a situation like this. But obviously, it’s timely with this. So for those that do find an inaccuracy on their credit report, what steps can they take?
Adam Minsky: Yeah, so like you said first of all, it’s just good practice to periodically check your credit. Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, you are entitled to one free credit report annually from each of the three bureaus. So at a minimum, at least once per year, you should be checking your credit report. If you see anything suspicious or problematic or erroneous, you want to know about it and you don’t want to find out about it when you’re buying a house or you need access to credit.
Tim Ulbrich: Right.
Adam Minsky: So in terms of what you can do, obviously pull your credit. Annualcreditreport.com, which is sort of the go-to place to get that free credit score under the FCRA, due to COVID-19, they actually are now offering a free weekly online credit report through April 2021. That’s a new service. So that’s a way to kind of pull your credit report on a regular basis without having to pay for a service. Now, that won’t give you your score, so that’s important to keep in mind. It’s not going to give you a credit score. It’s going to tell you what’s being reported. If you do see something that’s inaccurate, so under FCRA, you can get inaccurate or erroneous information removed. So your first step would be to contact what we call the furnisher, the entity that’s reporting that inaccuracy. That could be the lender, that could be the servicer. Try to work with them to see if they can remove it. If they don’t remove it, then you can file a formal dispute with the Credit Bureau that is doing the reporting. That can be done online or in writing through mail to Equifax, Experian or Transunion. And if that’s not successful, and you’ve experienced some sort of harm as a result of that inaccurate or erroneous reporting, that might be a good time to get an attorney involved to see if you have any path forward legally under the FCRA.
Tim Ulbrich: Awesome. And you did a nice job in the article outlining those steps, so we’ll link to that article in the show notes for our listeners to be able to go and get more information.
Adam Minsky: Great.
Tim Ulbrich: So the CARES Act is temporary protection, which as I think you mentioned the dates of through September, and I think that is igniting debate and conversation about what could be longer term solutions. And we’ll talk about that here in a moment with the HEROES Act. And to be clear to our community, I think there’s so much moving so quickly that there’s often confusion of what is reality versus what is proposals? So what we’re going to be talking about as it relates to the HEROES Act over the next several minutes might become reality but certainly has a long path to get there. So this is the beginnings of the conversation. The HEROES Act has been passed by the U.S. House of Representatives. It’s a piece of legislation that’s essentially a $3 trillion stimulus bill that’s intended to help provide further financial relief beyond that to the CARES Act to both individuals, businesses, organizations, health systems and so forth. But again, to be clear, what we’re talking about here is not yet in place and still has a way to go to get there. So Adam, the Senate is on record for saying that this will be dead on arrival. The president has publicly mentioned that he would veto it. So why are we even talking about this? Why should borrowers care when the House puts forward a piece of legislation like this, especially as it relates to the student loan provision?
Adam Minsky: Yeah, well, I mean, so this is basically viewed I think by the House leadership as a starting point for negotiations. So it’s not necessarily as if the House passed this bill and the Senate is just going to ignore it and start fresh. You know, there has to be some sort of bipartisan agreement to some extent, at least. And I think the hope is that some of the provisions of the HEROES Act — and there are many provisions — the hope I think is that some of those might make it into a final Senate version of that new stimulus bill, one way or another. And so we don’t know what pieces will make it in, whether those pieces will be changed from what they are currently in the House-passed version. But I think it’s a starting point for negotiation, and I think that’s the key point.
Tim Ulbrich: So talk to us about those provisions that are in there. You mentioned there’s many, of course student loans aren’t the only part of this, but that’s what we want to talk about here. So what are those student loan provisions that are in at least for the time being the House version that’s been passed?
Adam Minsky: Yeah, so one of the big ones is an extension of the CARES Act. So the CARES Act currently suspends payments, interest and collections on government-held federal loans through Sept. 30, 2020. The Department of Ed does have the ability to extend that by an additional three months, I believe. So they could extend it to the end of the year. But it does expire relatively soon.
Tim Ulbrich: Right.
Adam Minsky: So the HEROES Act would extend all of those provisions by a year, to Sept. 2021. So it would basically give folks a year and a half of suspended payments and interest. It also would expand the CARES Act provisions to include some of those loans that were excluded from the original CARES Act. So I referenced those commercially held FFEL program loans and Perkins loans. Those would now be covered under the CARES Act suspension and not left out. Private loans would still not be covered, but all federal loans for the most part would be covered now if this did become law. The big sort of debate when it comes to the student loan provisions of the HEROES Act was with regard to student loan forgiveness. So House progressives had originally been pushing for $30,000 in across-the-board federal student loan forgiveness, which was pretty significant.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, I saw that.
Adam Minsky: The version of the HEROES Act that was initially released scaled that back but still had pretty significant provisions that provided for $10,000 per borrower in across-the-board federal student loan forgiveness and, interestingly, it also provided for $10,000 in across-the-board private student loan forgiveness as well. So you know, for folks who are carrying $100,000 or $200,000 in student loan debt, it may not seem like it’s that big of a deal, but this actually would result in approximately I think 16 million borrowers becoming completely debt-free.
Tim Ulbrich: Wow.
Adam Minsky: So it would have had pretty far-reaching effects. Now after they released that version, one of the main sponsors of the Act amended it to restrict those loan forgiveness provisions. My understanding is that after the initial version of the HEROES Act was released, the CDO came out with an estimate of the cost of this, and apparently the loan forgiveness provisions would cost upwards of $250 billion. And they’re trying to find ways of trimming that overall cost of the bill. So what they did is they limited who is eligible for those loan forgiveness provisions. And they limited eligibility to someone who they deem to be in economic distress, and this is very specifically defined as someone who is either delinquent or in default on the applicable student loan or they were in economic hardship deferment or forbearance or they were in an income-driven repayment plan with a calculated monthly payment of $0. And that has to be as of March 12, 2020, the day before the national emergency was declared. So it locks out a lot of people. It still has a lot of forgiveness in there, but it’s much more narrowly defined in the final version of the HEROES Act.
Tim Ulbrich: Great summary. And I think that applies, you know, when you said it’s been limited in a significant way, that certainly would be true for pharmacists if this were to move through. I mean, there certainly are some that would fall into that economic hardship definition, economic distress category that you mentioned or being delinquent or default. And I do think there’s certainly some probably trainees — I’m thinking about our pharmacy residents — that might be in an income-driven repayment plan that has a monthly payment of $0 a month. So I think there could be some situations, again, if this were to move through, that that would apply. However, as I understand it, the biggest piece that would apply to our community would be that extension of the CARES Act provisions through Sept. 2021 and the expansion to include, as you mentioned, the commercially held FFEL loans and Perkins loans. Adam, I also recall seeing something about a fix to PSLF. Tell us more about that in terms of what was there in the HEROES Act.
Adam Minsky: Yeah, so some brief background on Public Service Loan Forgiveness, I’m sure most listeners know how the program works. But the program requires 120 qualifying payments, which a qualifying is a payment made on a direct federal loan, which is a particular federal loan program, under an income-driven repayment plan while the borrower is employed as a full-time employee for either a 501c3 nonprofit organization or a public organization of some kind. You do that 120 times, which if made consecutively is about 10 years, and your remaining balance is forgiven at the end of that. A big problem with this is to go back to those commercially held FFEL program loans, those don’t qualify for Public Service Loan Forgiveness. There is a mechanism to correct for that, and that’s through a program called the Direct Consolidation Program where borrowers basically take out a new Department of Education loan, it pays off the old loans, and what they end up with is a new federal direct consolidation loan that does qualify for PSLF. The issue is that any payments made on the FFEL loans prior to consolidation don’t count towards the 120 payments required for PSLF. There have been a lot of — there’s been a lot of advocacy to fix sort of the seemingly unnecessary complexity of this program, and so the HEROES Act does include the fix for that where borrowers who are consolidating their FFEL loans through the Federal Direct Consolidation Program would be able to get those payments previously made on FFEL program loans to count towards the 120.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and I know that’s been a big point of pain and contention and certainly has gained the attention of the media in terms of people that thought they were on track and had qualifying payments and find out they didn’t. So I’m sure that would be a welcome solution for many if that were to go through. It’s important to note too — and we’ll keep bringing updates related to this and as Adam mentioned, it’s going to be an evolution. I think this was a starting point for the future debate and negotiation, but there’s other provisions in the HEROES Act that are relevant to the individual, including cash payments to households, extension of unemployment benefits, the enhanced unemployment benefits and housing assistance for mortgage and rent payments, to name a few. So if you’re not already familiar with the language that’s in there, we’ll link to it in the show notes. But again, we expect this will be a moving target in the future, and we’ll bring up-to-date to the community. So Adam, what’s next here? Obviously it needs to go to the Senate, they’re going to have debate on this. What do we expect in terms of a timeline for review?
Adam Minsky: It’s a good question. I mean, the Senate isn’t even returning to Washington until June, so I mean, nothing is happening anytime soon.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah.
Adam Minsky: And the Senate leadership has basically said they may not even be interested in passing a new stimulus bill, at least in the short term. Now, you know, they’re saying that publicly while at the same time there are reports that they’re kind of working in the background on a potential bill. But few details have really been released. I don’t anticipate any fast movement on this at all unless we see, you know, further cratering of the economy, which is possible. I mean, we’re in such a weird, uncertain time right now where half the country is still in various states of being shut down, but things are also opening back up. I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t think anyone does. I think all we know is that this version of the HEROES Act is not going to become law. And I think that whatever becomes law, if anything, we’re quite a ways away from knowing what those details are going to be.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and so again, just to reiterate what you said and I mentioned earlier, especially for those that maybe tuned in halfway through or have us on double speed, what we’ve been talking about has been passed by the House, still needs to be debated, reviewed by the Senate, signed by the president. As we mentioned, what has been proposed likely is not going to be what moves forward but certainly could be a starting point for the discussions of a future bill. So looking into your crystal ball as an expert in this space, what do you see as an outcome that you think has real potential to get passed by the House, get approved by the Senate and ultimately get signed by the president?
Adam Minsky: I do think it is possible that we could see an extension of the CARES Act. I mean, frankly, at a minimum, I think that because the Department of Education already has the authority to extend the CARES Act by three months, you know, just from a political perspective, I mean, payments are going to come due again in October, just a few weeks before the election. I just don’t see that happening. Who knows? But you know, hitting millions of borrowers with a bill a few weeks before the election, I could definitely see a reason to extend that CARES Act out a bit, which could mean that we might not see a further extension of the CARES Act in the next stimulus bill, right? I mean, Congress has a habit of kind of walking to the cliff before they decide to do something. And so if this is already going to be extended possibly to the end of the year, we may not even see an extension of the CARES Act in the next stimulus bill. We might have to wait until the next next one. Who knows?
Tim Ulbrich: Right.
Adam Minsky: But I do think extension of those benefits is something that is more palatable on a bipartisan basis and less controversial if there is an economic basis for arguing that folks really aren’t in a position to be affording these payments. So pausing everything I think could be palatable to enough people to pass. I think something like student loan forgiveness, most Republicans have basically said that’s a nonstarter. It’s gaining traction with Democrats, but currently we have divided government, so I just don’t see that necessarily passing now. But again, we have an election coming up. Who knows what the makeup of Congress will be after that? And frankly, who the president will be. So you know, we don’t know for sure what will happen. But I think in the current state of things, I think that student loan forgiveness in any form is going to be tough. That being said, I think that student loan forgiveness as a concept, whether it’s $10,000 on a limited basis or $10,000 on a broad basis or something bigger than that, it has rapidly gained traction among lawmakers I think in the past year. And so that is something that I think for the first time, even though it’s a long shot right now, I think it is more realistic in some fashion than it has ever been before.
Tim Ulbrich: So while we’re talking loan forgiveness and while I have you on the line, I want to get your input on PSLF and the future of that program. You know, when we talk with pharmacists, in my estimation 20-25% of pharmacy grads qualify for PSLF, most of them because they’re working in a qualifying employer like a not-for-profit hospital. You know, the No. 1 question I get — and I can tell there’s instant hesitancy — is I just don’t trust this program’s going to be around in the future, I’m worried that this program’s not going to be around and how that might impact me, especially as they see that unknown and the potential for their loan balance to grow through that 10-year period. So talk to us about what you see as the future of PSLF.
Adam Minsky: Yeah, it’s a good question, and it’s a question that I get all the time I think from people who are in the program and are worried about it. Let me start by talking about the past, which is that in the past couple of years, there have been proposals to repeal the program. One was initiated by the White House through a budget proposal. The other was initiated by Congress prior to the 2018 midterms through a piece of legislation called the PROSPER Act, which would have repealed the program. Now, some key points here: No. 1, in both of those proposals, current borrowers would have been grandfathered in. The repeal only would have applied to new borrowers taking out new loans after those bills would have passed. There’s no absolute requirement that current borrowers be grandfathered in. Congress passed a statute that provided for the existence of PSLF, they can pass a statute repealing the program. There’s nothing that says they can’t do that. But if they didn’t grandfather people in, I think that there would be first of all, potentially viable legal challenges for pulling out the rug from people. And I think there would be political blowback from fairly powerful constituents who work in various sectors that have some political power. So I think that there is good reasons to grandfather people in if a repeal were to be passed. The other key takeaway is that these repeal proposals did not pass, they did not come close to passing, and that was during one-party control of Congress and the White House. It didn’t even garner sufficient support to even come to the floor of either the House or the Senate for a vote. So that tells me that that type of repeal at least at that point did not have enough support to really threaten the existence of the program. And certainly now with divided government, any repeal of PSLF would never pass the House of Representatives, in my opinion. Now, let’s talk about the present. I have had several clients who have gotten their loans forgiven under the program. So I can tell folks I have firsthand experience. The program does work, people do get their loans forgiven, I’ve seen their balances go to $0, it is legitimate. So despite all of the well-deserved scrutiny and bad press that the program has gotten, it also does work for people. And I think that that’s an important takeaway. Now, looking ahead, you know, again, I wish I could make predictions. We are in weird times right now. But you know, anything is possible in theory. But looking at what has happened so far, certainly I don’t think that the program is in any immediate danger. The efforts to repeal it that we’ve seen would have grandfathered people in if they passed, and they didn’t pass. So who knows what the future would hold? It is possible it could be repealed.
Tim Ulbrich: Sure.
Adam Minsky: But there’s no immediate danger of that. And I think that’s the best I can do in terms of trying to help people feel a little bit assured about the existence of the program.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and connecting, Adam, something you said earlier about student loan — a concept like student loan forgiveness more broadly being acceptable. You know, it’s gaining traction, probably still a long way away from becoming reality, but it’s definitely more of a conversation now than it was two or three years ago. And I see this being connected, this idea of a change to PSLF and I don’t think that would be politically popular by any means, and you mentioned that. And so I think as this topic of student loan gains more national attention and I think it is here in the CARES Act, here in the HEROES Act, obviously we know it’s a $1.5 trillion problem and it’s impacting many, many people. I think there is a very significant political beast there constituents should have an important voice in terms of how these student loans are impacting them. Which takes me to my final question as I know you have been involved in student loan advocacy and people have looked at you as an expert. And I know many of our listeners with advocacy from the standpoint of advocating for their profession or advocating for their role as a pharmacist. But I don’t know if they have thought about really advocating for their position as a constituent as it relates to their student loans and as it relates to things like the HEROES Act that are being considered. So what advice would you have for our listeners that want to engage in the discussion on this topic in terms of how they can successfully advocate and have their voice heard?
Adam Minsky: Well, I mean, I think the best thing that people can do is to talk about it. Talk about it with your family, talk about it with your friends, talk about it on social media, and talk about it to your elected officials. I think that one of the big issues in our country is that people have debt and people have shame and guilt associated with that debt. And I think what that means is a lot of people carry this debt and then don’t talk about it. And I think that, you know, there’s 44 million Americans who have student loan debt in this country. There is $1.6 trillion in outstanding student loan debt. There’s a lot of student loan borrowers, there’s a lot of student debt. The system is really not working, or not working well at least. And I think that the only way that that’s going to change is if we talk about it and we get enough support, broadly speaking and also with our elected officials so that there can be meaningful change. And so that means sharing your story. If you just have a lot of student debt and you’re struggling to pay it back or you’re dealing with nightmare servicer issues or you’re getting five different answers from five different people or they’re not counting your qualifying payments, talk about it. Share this with the people around you. And tell your congressperson, tell your Senate office because they need to hear about it as well. Personal stories really do go a long way to kind of putting a human face — you know, I think a lot of times, elected officials are just looking at the numbers. And the numbers are important, but I think that the human stories really have to be highlighted as well.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, great point. I think it’s — you look at a number like $1.6 trillion — I was off by .1 — $1.6 trillion and as a legislator or even as a person, you look at that and it can have somewhat of a numbing effect. It’s just so big. So when you hear an individual story about how somebody’s been impacted or how it’s impacting their personal situation, their family situation and trying to make those payments or difficulties with working with a loan servicer, I think it resonates in a totally different way. So great advice there. Adam, where can our listeners go to learn more about you and the work that you’re doing on this important topic?
Adam Minsky: Yeah, so feel free to check out my website, easiest place to go would be BostonStudentLoanLawyer.com. You can also follow me on Forbes. You can go to Forbes.com/sites/AdamMinsky, that’s Adam Minsky. You can sign up for email updates. I publish pretty routinely on Forbes, once or twice a week, sometimes more often than that. I try to stay on top of all these developments. You can also follow me on Twitter or connect with me on LinkedIn or find my Facebook page. But I try to stay on top of everything and to post analyses of what’s going on because like you mentioned, this is changing rapidly, especially these days. And I think that it can be confusing to know what’s what, what’s law, what’s not law, what changes have been made to certain proposals. So I do my best to kind of stay on top of all that, so folks should feel free to follow.
Tim Ulbrich: Great stuff, Adam. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show to share your expertise and to contribute on this important topic to our community. Thank you very much.
Adam Minsky: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Tim Ulbrich: As we wrap up today’s show, I want to remind you again of our latest resource, authored by Tim Church, “The Pharmacist’s Guide to Conquering Student Loans.” We will be doing a full release of that book soon, and you can sign up for the list to be notified when we go live by visiting PharmDLoans.com. Again, that’s PharmDLoans.com. As always, if you liked what you heard on this week’s episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast, please leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts each and every week. Have a great rest of your day.
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