Tag: pharmacy entrepreneur

Kun Yang, a pharmacist and Co-Founder & CEO of Pricklee Cactus Water, shares how and when he knew the entrepreneurial path was right for him. In this episode, he discusses the experience of being on Shark Tank, where he effectively navigated a negotiation with two sharks that led to a deal, and the most important skills he has had to acquire as an entrepreneur leading a growing company.

About Today’s Guest

Kun Yang is a recent dad and pharmacist-turned-CPG entrepreneur. He grew up in Canada but has spent his professional life in the United States, where he is building his business, Pricklee Cactus Water, with some incredible humans who want to make the world a better place.

Pricklee is on a mission to inspire people to be resilient like the cactus through health, happiness, and sustainability. The refreshing cactus waters are made from the drought-tolerant prickly pear cactus and packed with antioxidants, electrolytes, and vitamin C, with 50% less sugar than coconut water. It’s 100% refreshing, with 0% pricks.

Kun is passionate about brand building, CPG, leadership, founder stories, futurism, mental health, and all things wellness. He looks forward to connecting and learning from others that build businesses through conscious capitalism!

Episode Summary

This week on the YFP Podcast, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, welcomes fellow pharmacist and Co-Founder & CEO of Pricklee Cactus Water, Kun Yang, to the show. Highlights from this episode include hearing Kun talk about how and when he knew that an entrepreneurial path was right for him, the experience of being on Shark Tank, and the skills he has had to acquire on his entrepreneurial journey leading a growing beverage company. The discussion begins with Kun sharing his start in pharmacy, his pharmacy education, the moment he realized that a traditional pharmacy path might not be right for him, and the surprising story of how he got started as an entrepreneur. Kun speaks on how Pricklee came to be, his experience navigating negotiation with two sharks on Shark Tank, and ultimately getting a deal for Pricklee. With the added attention from the show, Kun shares how Shark Tank positively impacted the business in unexpected ways. He discusses the power of having a mentor, the skills needed to be a true leader, how he views leadership, and how he is cultivating a culture of growth in his company. Listeners will also hear an interesting parallel between parenting and entrepreneurial leadership. 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Planning: Financial Planning for Pharmacists
• Schedule a free Discovery Call with YFP Planning
• Pricklee Cactus Water
• Shark Tank US | Barbara and Kevin’s Prickly Fight Over Pricklee Product
• Hangry: A Startup Journey by Mike Evans
• Shoe Dog: A Memoir by the Creator of Nike by Phil Knight
• Brian Scudamore: Founders Stories Podcast
• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as if Your Life Depended on It by Chris Voss
• Connect with Kun Yang on LinkedIn
• Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. 

On this week’s episode, I welcome fellow pharmacist and the Co-Founder and CEO of Pricklee Cactus Water, Kun Yang. Highlights from the show include hearing from Kun about how and when he knew the entrepreneurial path was right for him, what the experience was like being on Shark Tank, where he effectively navigated a negotiation with two sharks that led to a deal, and the skills that he has had to acquire that have been most important to his entrepreneurial journey and leading a growing beverage company.

Now, before we jump into today’s show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 250 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized to the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom. 

Okay, let’s jump into my interview with Kun, the Co-Founder and CEO of Pricklee Cactus Water.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:20] TU: Kun, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:21] KY: Glad to be here, Tim. Nice to see you again.

[00:01:23] TU: So we had an interesting crossing of paths through a mutual connection in the biopharmaceutical industry space, where we’ve done some personal finance education with some of the fellowship programs. You spent the early part of your career, before working on Pricklee, in an industry role. So let’s start there. Tell us about your career path into pharmacy, where you went to school, and what led you to going down that path of industry.

[00:01:50] KY: Yeah. So I graduated from the University of Maryland School of Pharmacy 2015. I have a lot of pride in my alma mater, and I think many people might relate to this. But it’s almost like the further removed you get, the more you realize how lucky really you were in that situation. But I had a chance to kind of go back this past year as the white coat speaker, and it just brought back a flood of just really incredible memories and just appreciation for just how difficult it is to be faculty and kind of lead the next generation of youth and just had a lot of proud moments to kind of know where we kind of came from in that space. 

But I kind of grew up all over the place. I mostly grew up in Canada, and I always knew that I wanted to pursue health and wellness and many different components and also had a very, I guess, just entrepreneurial mindset to begin with. So I think pharmacy really kind of attracted me because fundamentally so much of pharmacy as an industry has been built upon independent business. Just the kind of skills that are required to be successful, to be able to socialize, to connect with your patients and provide value and help them lead healthier and better lives and be that trusted partner really kind of just gravitated to that profession. 

As I entered pharmacy school, I think I realized that there was a lot of different ways that we could make an impact in society. Over time, as I learned more and more about all the incredible opportunities to affect population health and take all the skills that we were getting in pharmacy school and apply them in really creative ways, yeah, I just naturally gravitated towards more “nontraditional” roles. But I would just say that they were just roles that I think allowed us to flex additional skills that we didn’t know we had, and then eventually ended up pursuing a fellowship through MCPHS at Biogen in a sort of medical value-based outcomes type program, which is sort of a managed care-focused direction because I was very involved with AMCP and was very interested in the whole population, health management piece of that profession, going into graduation. Then through that, just really found myself appreciating and just developing a lot of incredible skills in the biotech pathway.

[00:03:57] TU: You and I talked maybe a week or two ago, and we’re talking about for those students that have that business or entrepreneur type of desire, I think the industry pathway is a natural one where there’s some exposure to that. But certainly, that’s still a step away from entrepreneurship and growing your own company, still a very different experience working within an organization, although, of course, less clinical and more business minded. 

I’m curious, before we talk about Pricklee specifically, was there a moment during your fellowship or perhaps a moment in your first job where you looked around and you’re like, “Man, this just isn’t for me. I’ve got this entrepreneurial itch. I’ve got this pharmacy degree. Maybe I’ve been down this pathway, but like I don’t see myself doing this for 30 years.”

[00:04:43] KY: I think there were a lot of moments. When I look back, it wasn’t like I think one specific. I mean, I do have a specific moment that I’ll share, but I think there were a lot of feelings that I think that felt familiar to me, even in that moment, that I can kind of trace back and say, “Okay, this kind of makes a lot of sense.” So the moment really was walking into – I just finished our fellowship, and programming had started at a new company with a spinoff of our existing fellowship business. I kind of just walked in and had really, really fallen in deep appreciation for the opportunity and the people that I was working with. 

But I think one of the days I kind of walked in, and I looked around, and this was still pretty early on in our journey, but something hit me that I had always thought that through all the different career changes and exploration of getting to that point that going this “non-traditional” path would have led me to move away from this feeling of “imposter syndrome” or feeling like everything that I was doing was actually getting more and more specific. It was because it was leading me to a point of clarity, right?

Really, over time, I realized that imposter syndrome and point of clarity had a lot to do with an understanding of who I wasn’t, as opposed to understanding of who I was. I think that’s something that probably a lot of us can relate to is growing up in your 20s and maybe sometimes early 30s, you have a lot of ideas of maybe what you don’t like to do, right? What are some of the things that don’t excite you? What are some of the general things that do excite you? But you may not really understand specifically why or what you’re really good at to allow you to succeed in those roles. 

Again, all those feelings led to that one moment I walked in and looked around in this open office setting. I was kind of like, “Man, there’s a lot of incredibly talented and smart individuals around me. And if I work really, really hard here for another 15, 20 years, I can really be like one of them.” These were at the time, again, all my heroes I look up to that kind of forged the pathway for us before. I guess it hit me in that moment that there wasn’t a specific role that I could look at and say like that is exactly in specific what I wanted to do. I think that that was my – I call it a quarter life crisis moment of really all that imposter syndrome bubbling and kind of blowing up all at once, realizing that, wait a second, how could I have done all this and pursued all this specificity, only to feel this still in this moment? There’s not much more specificity I could pursue. 

That was when it really kind of became an introspective question of like is there something outside of pharmacy that I could apply my skills to, still within the health and wellness space that we’re really passionate about, that I could find truth and clarity? 

[00:07:17] TU: Where do you attribute – Obviously, you have an entrepreneurial spirit and desire. You’re pursuing that with the work that you’re doing at Pricklee, and I suspect this may not be the first venture and the last one that you’re going to do. Where do you attribute that entrepreneur spirit coming from?

[00:07:33] KY: It’s a really good question. I think it is family-driven in many, many ways, right? I’m a first generation American. My father actually immigrated over from China when I was one and then moved over to Canada when I was three and a half. To see kind of his journey and where he came from, where it was a small farm town that was – He was the first person in his entire family lineage to graduate high school and then did do college and all that stuff, and it wasn’t like there were resources around him. 

So for him to kind of persevere and find a way through all that, pursue higher education, and then bring us over and provide, create a better life for his family, and then give us this opportunity then to live a really privileged life of education, of connectivity, of culture, of just growing up in North America, Canada, and the US, and really being shielded from a lot of that and realizing that, for me, a lot of the journey of getting to really, I guess, in many ways what I had initially idealize as the pinnacle of success, which was I think much more defined from a lower wealth generation value standpoint of like earning and salary and maybe comfort from a capitalistic standpoint. Getting to that point and realizing that it was much more than that, that was behind the growth that my father and sacrifices my father had made. 

To look at that journey that he went on as a pretty entrepreneurial one himself, I think I got a lot of that same sort of mentality of like, okay, this still feels like the great opportunity has been presented. How can you take this opportunity and truly make a bigger impact? And take that opportunity and say if you have that privilege, and you have the connections and maybe the skill sets and the network to do more, to truly make an impact on society. Can you look introspectively and find authenticity in that journey to make that impact as positive and helpful as possible? So that’s really kind of where I think the initial energy came from.

[00:09:31] TU: I love that, Kun. One of the things I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, and I think your alma mater could give them some credit, is light years ahead in terms of a focus around entrepreneurship and nontraditional career paths. They put some specific efforts in that area to really be intentional and brand themselves as such. But I’ve often thought like we recruit for someone who wants to be a pharmacist and that clinical type of a mindset and then hope we can apply some entrepreneurial principles on top of that. I almost wonder if we need to flip the script in that like you recruit people that have an entrepreneurial mindset or interest, and then pharmacy gets overlaid on top of that. It’s just a totally different shift in how someone is thinking. 

I think what’s interesting about your journey, and I think there’s a lot of people that may feel some of that imposter syndrome or feel that tug and pull of like, “Hey, I have an interest in this or that, but my identity is in I have a PharmD, or I’ve done a fellowship, or I’ve done two years of residency.” We know the reality of the sunk cost fallacy of, “Hey, I’m $200,000 in, right? And I’m not going to pivot or take that risk.” So I just think there’s a really neat opportunity for our academic institutions to be able to take this up and see what we can do in terms of some of the disruption that’s happening in our profession and how can we, especially as we train the next generation of pharmacists, be a part of that. I think to Maryland’s credit, they’re making some progress in this area, which is pretty cool.

[00:10:56] KY: I think that that’s a very, very, very astute point. I would just say like still early on in my journey, so I imagine that my view on this and perspective will change over time. But I would say that what I found in our in our journey, where we’ve kind of really broken into multiple industries now and almost from the bottom up and try to find value in that, it really comes down to aligning the journey to some core set of values that are intrinsic to an individual. I think that that’s something that a lot of institutions have maybe not done effectively. I think, obviously, professionalism, and I think core behaviors of what a profession should look and act like are definitely important. 

But I do think that sometimes a lot of students come into these professions with personal values that are maybe extremely different, right? These personal values are often shaped by households and maybe by your initial friend network, right? I guess the challenge of this is then if most people are within this way of, this mindset of thinking you go through life, really kind of reflecting the same values that you’ve kind of been around since you were a kid, right? Your parents’ values and the friends that you’ve kind of grown up with. 

It’s really hard to break free from that, right? Because as you get more and more within a bubble of people in terms of the work that you do, your interests become even more specific. The challenges that you own become more specific. It’s probably very hard for an average pharmacist to relate to like the challenges that a construction worker, for example, would relate to day-to-day. So naturally, these worlds don’t collide as often as you would see, right? So what does that really result in? That results in people finding answers to like these bigger questions of like how do we become more entrepreneurial? Or what can we do with our pharmacy professions? 

They find answers amongst their direct community. Why is that challenging? Well, it’s challenging because a lot of people that go into higher education, they come from families where maybe their parents didn’t do this, right? Or maybe this is now a wealth generation they’ve entered making pretty healthy salaries, where their parents didn’t have that luxury, right? So what happens is you’re not asking maybe your reference point of like what success looks like is anchored to people that have never had the type of wealth opportunity that you do now. So to find answers to the questions that like, well, what’s next? If we’ve hit our milestones of getting your house or like having children and doing these things that seemed like, pretty far reaching milestones previously, and you’re starting to trend in that direction, where it’s pretty feasible, then you start thinking, “Well, what’s next right?” Then the answers often become, okay, invest your money, do these things, and grow your wealth. 

Then simultaneously, alright, who else would you ask? You ask your friends and your colleagues, who, again, were raised by the same kind of parents that you’ve been around. So it’s really hard to get answers to these bigger questions of how do you make more out of the way that our institutions are set up when a lot of the influence of what the values are in society are really limited to the same influences and values that you were raised with, right? So what I found is when you want to answer a question as big as what’s next, ask people that have done those things. So a lot of the mentors that I’ve met in my life that have made these tremendous impacts, I mean, they’ve built and exited companies, global companies. They’ve done these things. Time and time and again, you start to realize that oftentimes the value system changes from one of just wealth creation to one where you start to realize that your wealth is really a set of tools that you can leverage to create value for others and to create not just a better life for yourself but for your profession, for people around you, for anyone, right? 

I think as you meet more and more successful people that have gone through that journey, you really feel that, and it’s not only just really inspiring to see that that’s really what people stand for at the end of the day, but that that’s what the world and the universe tends to reward in the long term.

[00:15:04] TU: It’s such a great point, and I’m reading right now Hangry by the GrubHub founder. It’s a great book. It reminds me a lot of Shoe Dog. It’s another great read on kind of an entrepreneurial startup story, that one, obviously, of Nike and Phil Knight. But he talks about in the GrubHub journey like his initial goal was like do this thing to be able to pay off student loans. Then it gets to this point where he raises $31 million, and he gives up a stake of a company, and then it’s like, “Oh, wow. This got like really real. And, obviously, I’m now exceeding that goal, and there’s on to something else.” 

Then, obviously, at some point, he exits what will be a multibillion-dollar company, and then he’s kind of asking this question of like, alright, that wealth and, obviously, paying off that debt was a very small goal that wealth was achieved. But like I’m trying to find my identity back of like who am I, what do I want to be, what do I want to be my legacy and my contribution. 

So let’s shift gears and talk about Pricklee. For those that aren’t familiar with Pricklee yet, and I hope they will become soon, if they’re not already or they haven’t tried the product, what is it, and how did the idea come to be?

[00:16:07] KY: Yeah. No, it’s definitely an interesting story. So Pricklee is a cactus water. It’s a delicious, refreshing cactus water made from really the most sustainable and resilient plant on the planet, the prickly pear cactus. It’s packed with electrolytes, antioxidants, vitamin C, that just offers superior and natural hydration. It’s about half the sugar and calories of a coconut water, and it’s really just good in smoothies by itself, mixed drinks, and really any which way you want to have it. So that’s really what Pricklee is. 

We actually created Pricklee right in the middle, again, of our fellowship. Our co-founder, Mo, grew up in Lebanon, and his grandma used to make prickly pear mixed drinks, prickly pear just smoothies, prickly pear just hydration beverages all summer long. It’s his favorite thing going up with him and his siblings. So one day, when he was shopping at our local grocery store, and he saw prickly pears in the market, he was blasted with nostalgia. He’s like, “I have to bring this back to my friends.” So he shared it with us. We were just blown away by the taste. 

Then being in health care, we look at the benefits. That was really, really interesting as well. I think over time, we just realized like this is such an amazing opportunity to take a health and wellness platform, introduce an ingredient that meant something, significant to one of us, and then find ourselves in this, and that journey of really discovering authenticity through the creation of Pricklee, and figuring out that we could leverage the platform of the cactus to inspire people to be resilient. To really promote health, happiness, and sustainability became really what our core mission was. Then over time, really that mission manifested itself into a company that we now are privileged enough to be able to support and to grow every single day.

[00:17:47] TU: So I want to talk about your Shark Tank experience. You and your co-founder, Mo, also a pharmacist, appeared on Shark Tank, season 13, episode 22. We’ll link to it in the show notes, if folks want to go back and watch it. You were looking for $200,000 for 5% equity, which equates to a $4 million valuation. I want to talk about the numbers. But first, I want to hear about the experience. What was it like walking through those doors, and how did you prepare for that opportunity? Because as I’ll ask you in a moment, there were some instances in your responses with the sharks that it was clear you had done a lot of preparation. So I’m curious to hear how you went about that preparation. 

[00:18:28] KY: Yeah. So we’d spent almost two years just sort of beta testing our product at farmer’s markets, figuring out how this whole industry worked. It was really, really something that just blew our minds because of how complex the industry was and the different aspects that went into it from D2C e-commerce, to retail, to supply chain, to operations, to production, to sales and marketing. I mean, there’s just so much to uncover, and it took us some time to really grapple around that. So we didn’t launch until February 2021. 

Something to note of that is, I think, pharmacists and STEM individuals, specifically, are fantastic entrepreneurs because testing is so ingrained in our DNA. So we really went through it pretty – Really kind of taking our emotion out of it as much as we could. But in any case, we launched in February of ‘21. Within the first week, we’d run these Facebook ads and the production studio at Shark Tank, at SEMA, and these ads. So they reached out and were like, “Hey, you guys should apply.” We thought it was a complete scam. We had no idea this was real thing. But we pursued it. Next thing you knew, we had this gigantic application. It was like 40 pages. I mean, we were just spewing out all aspects of our life in this application.

This ended up being like a 16-month process from when we first [inaudible 00:19:44] to when we’d been filmed and then when we finally aired the following May. So it was probably the longest kept secret of our lives. When we started getting through the process, the team assigned us a production staff that really helped us kind of frame the pitch, prepare us for the kind of conversations that we’re going to have. A lot of that was just, again, an ongoing 16-month journey that eventually led to the air date on Mother’s Day weekend, actually May of 2022.

[00:20:15] TU: I’m curious. Yesterday, I was listening to a podcast of the founder of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?, and he had talked about a moment in their business, which it took them eight years to get to a million dollars in revenue, and now they’re north of $600 million a year. So a very patient slow growth and then, obviously, more of an explosion of that over time. But he talked about this instance where, after a lot of persistence, they got on to Oprah, a huge opportunity, couldn’t hire enough people to have the phones ready after that went live. But they didn’t have a same experience when they went on The Ellen Show. It was actually very quiet after that, and part of that had to do with, obviously, people can more easily get in touch now than they could when they went back on a previous show with Oprah. 

But I’m curious how defining of a moment was that? Or was that not in terms of that goes live, and the business changes?

[00:21:07] KY: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think it was it was a defining moment. I think a lot of companies find a lot of luck in different components. You kind of have to. I mean, timing luck, it’s in every company’s journey. Shark Tank has manifested as one of those things for us, for sure. We had been on this like interesting media tour. Leading up to Shark Tank, we had actually filmed TODAY Show in August, right before we had filmed Shark Tank in September. That was a pretty big deal. I mean, Al Roker drinking your product on air. I mean, sharing your story. We got some texts about it. But it wasn’t comparable to the Shark Tank experience. 

I mean, I think there’s something societally and culturally relevant about Shark Tank in the connection that every person has with that being like some pinnacle of entrepreneurship and a goal, and a milestone I think a lot of people will look for in starting businesses. So I think that there’s something innately exciting about it. Still to this day, anytime people see our booth, our materials, see us out in public with Pricklee, like we definitely get people being like, “Oh, we saw you guys on Shark Tank.” We always – The number of times we’ve had to tell the story of like, “What was that like?” It’s definitely something that we’re passionate about. But it was definitely one of those things where that was absolutely Shark Tank. 

[00:22:23] TU: Not once. I don’t think not once did you or Mo mentioned that you were a pharmacist on that show. Was that an intentional move?

[00:22:30] KY: I think we actually did but –

[00:22:32] TU: Oh, did you?

[00:22:32] KY: Well, so the time that you’re in there is quite a bit longer than what actually gets aired. We think we’ve been there for almost 45 minutes. It was cut to eight. They did a really good job of actually representing the conversation and negotiate the intent of it. But, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, they’re trying to put on a good show and trying to make it very, very snappy and quick. 

It was funny. We had like a couple of our partners and friends actually fly in and put on cactus suits to like introduce the brand and the products, and that entire segment was cut out. So it was really funny. I mean, they were there. You saw them. But the whole dance sequence entrance, that was cut out. I guess they weren’t – I guess we just didn’t rehearse well enough, or like it wasn’t entertaining enough for dancers across the US. But, yeah, I know. We talked about it, I think, a couple of times. But definitely within the 45-minute segment, they cut that down to 8 minutes.

[00:23:22] TU: So one of the things Tim and I were talking about this, Tim, my partner at YFP last week, he does a lot of teaching on negotiation. One of the things that happened in the Shark Tank episode, at least, of the eight minutes that they filmed, is when Kevin – He went on this rant of, “I hate beverage deals. However, I like this product.” He ended up countering that. I think it was $200,000 for a 20% stake, instead of a 5% stake. Then you had a brilliant response, and you said something along the lines of how are we supposed to do that? Then you provide the rationale behind the how are we supposed to do that, in terms of needing the cash flow and so forth to grow and sustain the business, which is a textbook calibrated question or negotiation. 

The book, How I Split the Difference, Chris Voss, he talks about this question precisely. So I assume you were prepared for that specific type of instance, where you had to negotiate. Was that fair?

[00:24:17] KY: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, no Shark Tank deal goes on air and comes out the way that it was presented. It was kind of incredible how textbook the negotiation went to how we had prepared. We expected them to go to 20%. We expected Kevin in negotiation and then go to a royalty deal [inaudible 00:24:34]. Then our whole bottom line was going to be to offer the initial deal at a 5% line of credit. So the fact that it played out to a tee was just mind-blowing, I think, in terms of the preparation of that and to feel like we were actually in control of the entire conversation was pretty. 

One of our first actual adviser, Patrick Muldoon, who’s the previous CEO of Zola Coconut Water and Detour Bar, an incredibly brilliant guy. He was the one that, to your point, brought up Chris Voss, How I Split the Difference. We read that. We kind of really prepared. What happens when this likely scenario occurs that somebody’s – Let’s say you left with one truck, and you have an offer, and it’s 20%. The fact that, again, happened at that exact moment was really funny. This is a guy who’s gone through so many tough negotiations in this life and I think can really speak to experience with it. Just he kind of coaches the same thing.

Like at the end of the day, when you’re in a tough situation, I think that the best thing to do is ask questions, right? There, you’re faced with an impossible situation or impossible task or ask, which oftentimes is the case with Shark Tank. These deals are impossible deals. Yeah. Yeah. Like you ask the question of like, well, lean into their expertise and experience and figure out what is it that they’re looking for? Oftentimes, that opens up the conversation from seeming like your back against the wall, no counter. This is the final offer on the last shark, to then turning that into an actual conversation where that results in negotiation. That’s absolutely part of the game.

[00:26:01] TU: It’s interesting seeing Barbara jump back in. I didn’t see that coming. Then I thought it was cool that you guys got caught a little bit in the middle for the benefit of at least the show, where there’s, obviously, an ego play going on between the two of them that she – So that was fun to watch.

[00:26:17] KY: Yeah. We were like, “Was this about us?”

[00:26:19] TU: Right. Kun, I’m curious that as your role expands, obviously, you’re leading a rapidly growing beverage company. I don’t think any schooling, including a PharmD program and even one that has more of an entrepreneurship focus, I don’t think any schooling can prepare someone for the work and the leading that you’re doing now. I’m curious, what what skills, if you had to pick one or two, we just mentioned negotiation potentially one, what skills have you really had to develop and hone that have proven to be most valuable to you in terms of leading this company?

[00:26:52] KY: Well, it’s hard to boil that down. So I would say if it really comes down to it, I think leadership is definitely the one that has been the most difficult for me because I think – I mean, I don’t know. I think leadership is often put together as this package of people in roles, in “leadership positions,” and that’s oftentimes rewarded. There’s often momentum built around that, right? If somebody tends to be active and speak up, this tends to happen. But you really realize over time that it’s really not about that. It’s really about how do you serve the people, your constituents, your workers, your partners, your friends, your customers, and your vendors, everyone that you work with. 

Again, finding a voice of authenticity and a mission that’s so much greater than the product that you’re selling, ultimately, at the end of the day, and making sure that that’s an authentic mission and a set of value systems that really represents the people that are truly behind this company because the company really is just a journey. It’s really a journey of humans coming together, bringing their talents, introducing their networks of other talented individuals to come through. So at the end of the day, does the product really matter? Or is it really the people that come together and make it come to life? I really kind of believe that latter certainly to some extent. 

But that was a really hard thing to understand. Because I think the skills that – Again, the leadership skills that are oftentimes rewarded in a corporate setting are oftentimes selfish and ones where it’s like what are you good at. You tend to see this too with a lot of individuals that when they find themselves in conversations with senior leadership, for example, which oftentimes isn’t the case in a corporate American setting, I mean, most of the time, it’s jockeying of position of like, “This is what I’ve done. This is how I’m effective. This is what I lead.” It’s like that doesn’t really provide a lot of value in your conversation, right? 

I mean, the ultimate value, understandably, for any business is to move forward as a company because that improves everyone’s livelihood and, ultimately, your customers’ livelihood, right? So I think when you look at it in that macro, you realize it’s not about the individual. It’s about the bigger piece of like what are we all working for and realizing that the individual growth journey will actually lead to overall growth in the business. But, again, if you come from a place where you’re thinking about your specific role in that, as opposed to looking top down on how do you truly create and cultivate a culture of growth, it’s really hard to understand how to take yourself out of that and turn it the other way around and reflect all of that growth towards others, while still finding that your personal growth journey is actually felt that. 

So that was a really, really extensive journey that I’m still on, and I think there’s a lot of the people in my team and partners have been extremely patient with me through that. That I would say has been the hardest, most emotionally intelligently challenging thing and process that I think I still undergo, and I still just – I’m so in awe of people that have mastered that, and I see how they bring them to home to their families too. That’s really, I think, what keeps me excited about the growth journey in that specific way.

[00:30:14] TU: I love what you just said there, and I think you can relate to this as a relatively newer dad. But I think parenting and entrepreneurship, at least in my own journey, have really forced some of the most significant inner reflection, which can be humbling and painful sometimes in the moment of like – My kids, I love them to death. But parenting exposes every limitation I’ve ever had that I was able to hide. 

I think entrepreneurship can do the same. But I think if you lean into that, as I hear you are, it’s such a rich and rewarding journey of what are the opportunities to grow and to develop and flourish and to really think about some of these bigger questions of, sure, there’s going to be opportunity to build some wealth and create jobs and provide a really cool company and a product that’s awesome and tastes great. I can attest to that. My boys and wife can attest to that that have tried the product as well. 

But it’s bigger than that, right? It’s bigger than that, and you’re already talking about that. I think that bigger than that also enhances the product, and it makes it attractive to people that are using it and the team that is behind that. It’s energizing when you have that type of a mindset. 

[00:31:21] KY: Oh, my gosh. You hit the nail on the head. I mean, that same mentality when you apply it, to your point, I mean, having a kid, immediately put somebody significantly ahead of you in terms of priorities. That is what you have to do with entrepreneurship too, right? It’s really just not about you. It’s about the people that you serve. I think when it comes to product that you hit the nail on the head. I mean, as soon as we launched our product, we already knew that we were selling a product, and we had to find authenticity in our journey to express a brand, and that’s exactly what it was. 

It just so happened that we had – I had my daughter in that really existential brand, soul searching phase. So it actually really helped us internalize like what it meant to feel empathy for consumers in that way and build a brand that really spoke to their needs, as opposed to a brand that we wanted to express ourselves. Then finding a common ground of authenticity so that when we build everything, it feels like a true genuine expression of self, as opposed to here’s a list of factors and characteristics of this product that you should buy into. 

Sort of I think there’s a really interesting tidbit on that that I’d love to share, which is growing up in STEM, we were kind of taught to look at data and place data at a level of gospel sometimes, right? Where like the higher the end, for example, the more statistically significant, the more correct this data point ends up being. That is absolutely true, and there’s obvious logical science built into that way of discerning data. Then simultaneously, you do have occasional situations where a clinical trial may fail. Yet you have individual patients that may be cured of cancer. Does it necessarily mean that the product is not good? Or was it not tested in the right patients? I mean, you start to answer a lot of these interesting questions. 

But the reason I bring that up is because this comes back to the value system of health care, which is it’s interesting. Because within healthcare, we’re tasked to be compassionate to care for our patients, and there’s sometimes like a disconnect with the way that we think about our jobs and the way that that happens. Because when you look at datasets, you look and you’re taught to think that the higher the data set, the more accurate, the more useful this information is, almost to the point where an N of 1 becomes tossed away as meaningless. 

The irony is as we’ve built in our consumer journey, we’ve put all of our efforts into appreciating the N of 1 because the N of 1 is actually the lived journey that every single human being on this planet is born into, like every single person goes through an end of one journey. Your journey is your journey. That’s it, your perspectives, people that you’re with. I mean, that’s uniquely yours. That’s what you’re born into. That’s what you die with. The fact that that’s held out important sometimes or the importance of that, the significance of that is lost in our way of appreciating that people aren’t data points, people are people. 

If we sometimes look at that N of 1 in the context of a broader dataset and find appreciation in the outliers, you actually will find a lot more answers to those questions that you may not even know you’re asking for. That’s actually where entrepreneurship really, really has taught us is we don’t find a lot of value in our aggregated success. Aggregated success is just the status quo of what’s working. We have so much failure that there’s no real N of 1 failure that you’re looking to innovate on. 

But occasionally, we get an N of 1 that just blows our mind. How did that happen? Like where’s that coming from? Why is that happening? That insight that we get, picking up the phone, talking to that one person, can shift business strategy in ways that are so significant and unlock opportunities that we’d never considered, and it’s because we value that N of 1. I think if we look at that in health care and truly ask those questions, those deeper questions of making sure we don’t lose that context in the scheme of pursuing greater science, I think we can probably affect the holistic health of patients in a greater way as an industry. So that’s something that, again, going back full circle to your question of institutions is something that, as a value system, we should probably try to find a way to embed in our curriculum.

[00:35:30] TU: Great insights, Kun. Really have enjoyed the conversation. I’m excited to get this out to the YFP community. Where is the best place that folks can go to connect with you and to get involved perhaps in Pricklee as well?

[00:35:43] KY: Yeah, absolutely. So you can find us – For myself, personally, you can find me on LinkedIn in just Kun, K-U-N, last name Yang, Y-A-N-G. Yeah, feel free to connect and reach out if you ever want to have a conversation. We’d love to meet other pharmacists and hear about your journeys. 

Then also, it just so happens that we actually are just opening our seed investment round for Pricklee as well. So if that’s something of interest, please feel free to reach out and let us know if you have any questions or want to learn a little bit more about that opportunity as well.

[00:36:11] TU: Awesome. We’ll link to both the Pricklee site, as well as Kun’s LinkedIn profile in our show notes. Kun, thanks so much for taking time to come on the show. I appreciate it.

[00:36:19] KY: Yeah. Thanks so much for the opportunity, Tim. I had a great time. 

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:36:22] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. 

Thank you, again, for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week. 

[END]

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Dr. Jimmy Pruitt, an emergency medicine clinical specialist and entrepreneur, discusses what led him to start the Pharmacy and Acute Care University, how he monetized his clinical expertise through developing masterclasses, workshops, reference libraries, community forums, and webinars about the effective use of medications in the management of critically ill patients, how he has balanced the start and growth of his business while working full-time, and the role his business has played in helping him achieve his financial goals.

About Today’s Guest

Dr. Jimmy Pruitt is originally from Orlando, FL, and is a combination of nerd and gym funky having a background as a division 1 cornerback then turned Doctor of Pharmacy from Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy in 2017. He completed a PGY-1 Pharmacy Residency at Florida Hospital Orlando, and then went on to Grady Health System in Atlanta GA for his PGY2 Emergency Medicine Residency. Dr. Pruitt is currently an Emergency Medicine Clinical Pharmacy Specialist at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, SC.

Dr. Pruitt was honored with the Excellence in Diversity from MUSC College of Pharmacy, Presbyterian College School of Pharmacy (PCSP) Alumni of the Year, and keynote speaker for the 2021 PCPS graduation. Dr. Pruitt’s professional interests include cardiac arrest, shock syndromes, trauma, hosting the #1 Emergency Medicine Pharmacy Podcast “Pharm So Hard” and operating his new pharmacy academy called Pharmacy & Acute Care University.

Episode Summary

This week on the YFP Podcast, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, sits down with emergency medicine clinical specialist and entrepreneur, Dr. Jimmy Pruitt. They touch on what led Dr. Pruitt to start Pharmacy & Acute Care University, how he has scaled the business, and how entrepreneurship has moved him forward in his financial plan.

Dr. Pruitt started by answering questions presented to him by other clinicians, often looking for resources for himself and other pharmacists. Jimmy decided to start Pharmacy & Acute Care University, meeting a need in the community while monetizing his clinical expertise by providing pharmacy-related content from a pharmacist with experience. To date, Jimmy has developed masterclasses, a reference library, workshops, community forums, live seminars, literature reviews, and webinars about the effective use of medications in the management of critically ill patients. One of Dr. Pruitt’s goals for the platform is to be inclusive of healthcare providers outside of pharmacists. 

Tim and Jimmy close the interview with a conversation about balancing entrepreneurship with competing responsibilities. Jimmy shares the first steps he took to build his business, how he has formed his team behind the scenes, and how he overcame some early challenges of expanding the PACU and its offerings. Lastly, Jimmy shares some personal insight on how Pharmacy & Acute Care University helped him reach his financial goals and reframe his view of retirement.

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Planning: Financial Planning for Pharmacists
• Schedule a free Discovery Call with YFP Planning
• Pharm So Hard Podcast
• Pharmacy & Acute Care University
• KelleyCPharmD
• Who Not How: The Formula to Achieve Bigger Goals Through Accelerating Teamwork by Dan Sullivan
• Membership Geeks Podcast
• YFP 265: 10 Lessons Learned: Employee to Entrepreneur
• The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don’t Work and What to Do About It by Michael Gerber
• Procrastinate on Purpose: 5 Permissions to Multiply Your Time by Rory Vaden
• Follow Jimmy Pruitt on Twitter: @pharmd_intheed
• Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. 

This week, I had the opportunity of sitting down with emergency medicine clinical specialist and entrepreneur, Dr. Jimmy Pruitt. During the show, we discussed what led him to start the Pharmacy & Acute Care University. How Dr. Pruitt has monetized his clinical expertise through developing masterclasses, workshops, reference libraries, community forums and webinars. How he has balanced the start and growth of his business while working full time. And the role that his business has played in helping him achieve his financial goals.

Before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YPF Planning does in working one on one with more than 250 households in 40 plus states. YFP Planning offers fee only, high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one on one with a certified financial planner, who may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.

Okay, let’s jump into my interview with Dr. Jimmy Pruitt.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:20] TU: Jimmy, welcome to the show.

[00:01:21] JP: Oh, thanks for having me on. It’s definitely a pleasure to get started with this and talk to you guys a little bit more about in Your Financial Pharmacist.

[00:01:31] TU: Yeah, I’m really excited to share with the YFP community about how you’ve been monetizing your clinical expertise, a topic we’ve been talking more about on the show over the past couple of years. But first, before we get into all of that, tell me what drew you into pharmacy, where you went to school, and when you graduated?

[00:01:47] JP: Perfect. I was fortunate that in high school, I had a chemistry professor that really challenged me to think more outside of sports, because my plan A was to go to NFL, and get lucky and went to a pharmacy school that had a football program. It was great. So, I went to undergrad at Presbyterian College and went to pharmacy school at Presbyterian College, and I was fortunate that I was able to live up two my passion with pharmacy and football and really, gave me the background to want to connect with a team, to be a team leader, and to just produce something more than what I’m used to. So, that was really my background and just being good at chemistry, being good at math, and a special interest to the medications.

[00:02:29] TU: So, you graduate from Presbyterian in 2017. Tell us about the career path since then, post-graduation, residency and the initial clinical work that you’ve done.

[00:02:39] JP: After pharmacy school, I went to AdventHealth Orlando, and was able to get a very good foundation at that very large program. It’s one of the top five largest programs in the nation. From there, I really solidified me enjoying the acute care side of things, and particularly, the emergency department. Then from there, I went to Grady Health Systems in downtown Atlanta where I got to see and do more than I can ever imagine and that was just phenomenal. And more particularly, being able to see and manage those critically ill patients in a manner that most pharmacists and the laws don’t really allow them to do.

So, I really got hands on with those patients and really working with physicians, nurses and things of that nature really helped me understand my expertise. And then from there, my first job outside of residency was at Augusta University Medical Center, which is another large academic medical center that has a level one trauma center, really got my hands dirty there, and I was also still working at Grady Health Systems on my off time. So, I’ve worked quite a bit that first year and a year and a half. And as of lately, I’ve went to the Medical University of South Carolina, which is another again large center and trauma center as well, where I’m also part of the faculty at the School of Pharmacy and teaches on the acute care side of things.

[00:03:55] TU: Well, no wonder why you’re busy. Before we hit record, I asked you, “Hey, how are things going?” He said, “Busy.” It makes sense. You’ve got a lot going on and we’ll talk about the business in addition to the full time work here in a moment. But I’m going to brag on you for a moment because a lot has happened in a relatively short period of time. So, you graduated pharmacy school 2017. You did residency training, as you mentioned, PGY 1, PGY 2, and you’ve had quite a large amount of success as a new practitioner. You were honored with the Excellence in Diversity from MUSC College of Pharmacy. You were the Alumni of the Year from your alma mater, also the keynote speaker for their graduation in 2021. You’ve started a podcast, Pharm So Hard, we’ll link to that in the show notes. We’ll talk about, here today, Pharmacy & Acute Care University is really the business that you have been building to help clinicians that are wanting to improve themselves as it relates to that area of practice.

So, let’s jump into that. Tell us about when you decided to start pharmacy and acute care University. We’ll link to that site in the show notes. But it’s, pharmacy-acutecareuniversity.com. When you decided to start it and why you started it? What was the genesis and the origins for doing that?

[00:05:06] JP: Absolutely. So, the precursor to Pharmacy & Acute Care University was a thing I used to call a blog called pharmacy frothy pearls. And what it was initially, that was just a short form, a handout, it’s using front and back that really summarize a disease state or a particular topic, and many people really enjoyed that, and I was fortunate to win an essay, who’s got talent for that, but people want a little more. I kept trying to make pharmacy pros larger or more in depth, but it really didn’t – it really wasn’t what people wanted. And as I continue to build websites and continue to get more involved in the podcast, I wanted to see if there was a way for me to monetize some of this, so I can build these platforms. And really, the next step for me was to figure out a way to, okay, build something people want and go from there.

So, about last year, I was able to really go about doing things where I planned out, what would this look like? And that step for me was to be able to go for it and create a university or academies where I can build things that not only myself, but other preceptors that individuals can be a part of, and it really was something that was I just figured out, if you want a topic, let me know and I’ll ask people what they wanted. I looked online to figure out what are the disease these people are interested in, and what, I think, they’re missing, and I really start to build upon that, and it really was the thing I want to separate, being able to give people things they need from our free standpoint with my podcasts and pearls, but then be able to get a little bit more in depth and provide some more value.

[00:06:35] TU: Critical care is certainly not my area of expertise. Emergency medicine, critical care. But I know enough within the profession that this is a topic that certainly there are groups within pharmacy associations. There are large critical care organizations outside of pharmacy that are well respected, and certainly ones that clinicians go to for resources. So, what was the gap that you saw? What was the opportunity that as you looked at those other “competing resources” that were out there, that you felt like, you know what, there’s a gap here that we really have an opportunity to build something that can supplement those resources?

[00:07:09] JP: Absolutely, Tim. So, one of the things that I noticed was that, unfortunately, when you get so big that a lot of the resources are really catered to a large percentage of practitioners. And what I want you to do is figure out what are the things that I need on a day to day basis that are necessarily not there. So, some of the times, I spent a large percentage of my time collecting resources, collecting and organizing resources. And I really wanted to figure out if there was a way for me to have all that in one click, that would save me hours of time. And also, I thought about as a resident, I spent even more time trying to figure out what is actually useful? What do I actually need to read?

So, that was the first thing that came to me with the reference library within PACU, was figuring out what do I need that’s not currently there, and what I spend the majority of my time on as a resident, and then now as a preceptor. So, I started going through different aspects and figuring out is there an easier way, or a more convenient way to organize these resources? And that was like the first step to this. And then I thought myself, how can I make this more all-inclusive, so I don’t have to go to five different websites? Because what I noticed was, I would consume a ton of content, but I had to go to five or six different websites to get that information, or I had to spend a significant amount of money each time I got those things, when I only really wanted one topic or so.

So, that was the basis for me creating a platform that included all of these things, and really helped me understand that maybe there’s a niche there for me to be able to go in and talk about the things that I do, and emergency medicine as being one of the newer specialties, and really build emergency medicine outwards, and go from that, to critical care, to internal medicine. And really, I thought about all of acute care pharmacy, there are certain things that we can build for them that they’re needing, and a lot of the content I build is based off what people send me questions on and things they say that they need. So, that was really the niche that I picked up on.

[00:09:08] TU: Yeah, so valuable information to hear there. It’s one, you’re living it, as a clinician, you went through the training, you feel the pain point yourself, and then I think you mentioned a great point there as well that something that resonates with me at YFP is questions that come in. You start to see themes and repetition, you start to pick up on okay, what are the pieces of content? What are the resources that would be helpful to serve people in the community?

When I take myself back Jimmy to being in pharmacy school, which was a while ago. I graduated 2008 and I remember going through rotations and like critical care was overwhelming. It’s quickly rising, it wasn’t for me. But I remember working with a lot of critical care practitioners and I can see why the resource you’ve built is of such value to them. And you mentioned one thing already that there’s so much information, different resources that are out there, so maybe not something about well as succinct as it could be. And obviously, you’re trying to address that pain point in the academy.

I also, when I think of critical care, I think of the confidence level that’s needed among the practitioners and just the amount of information, the urgency of some of the care situations, time management, just the overall competence of the practitioner. Are those other things that you’re seeing in the community where folks that are interested in your model might be struggling with some of those areas as well?

[00:10:26] JP: Absolutely. And those ways that I’m trying to address that through our community forum, and just be able to have a conversation, because a lot of times where depending on what your practice or depending on where you’re doing your training, you may not have people that you can talk to that’s been through the scenarios that they’re training you on. The patient population may not be big on that. So, a lot of the time, we’re having mentor sessions, and we’re having one of the things I’m working on for next month, is given a class based off resources to use to save you time and organize yourself.

So, all these things, we’re looking at ways and where we can create content for people, not just on the clinical side of things, but also on the site where they are able to organize and to be able to be a little bit more confident, and maybe having one on one conversations with myself, maybe have a one on one conversations with others, and that’s where I think that we’re unique, because we’re small enough to take the needs of our clientele and say, “Okay, what else do you need?” And then I can go and use the podcast. I can go out and use all the other social media platforms that I’ve been successful on to find these people and to give them what they need.

[00:11:34] TU: When I look at your mission, Jimmy, you mentioned to empower healthcare providers with the knowledge and skills they need to provide evidence based safe care for critically ill patients. So, that terminology, healthcare providers, suggests it’s broader than pharmacists. Are you building an interprofessional platform? Is it mostly pharmacists? Tell us more about the demographic of your audience?

[00:11:53] JP: Absolutely. As of right now, the majority of our audience is going to be a pharmacist base. But again, we do have a few nurses, we do have a few physicians. And the ultimate goal is to be inclusive of everyone who utilizes pharmacotherapy to treat patients. So, the big goal, I want this to be something that everyone can use. And we have some different plans for the end of the year in early 2023, where we can provide certain solutions to a medical residency program. There’s an interesting component to where they have, at least for emergency medicine, they have a pharmacotherapy or pharmacology section within their training that needs to be marked off.

As of now, there is not a standard of how to satisfy that. So, the more and more I teach within a residency program, I have a standing position where I teach once a month to our medical residents, I’m noticing they really value that. And what if your residency program doesn’t have a pharmacist? What if you don’t have an EM pharmacist in your program? Eventually, we can get to the point to where we can provide some resources for those practitioners as well. The same thing I get from the NPs and PAs, they want more pharmacy related content from pharmacists actually practicing at the bedside. Now, I think that’s the unique component of where we’re trying to take the platform and grow this to where it can be everyone, but again, we provide you what you need, and create it in such a way that is suitable for that particular person at their time, in their training.

[00:13:20] TU: I think it’s a really interesting niche, the medical residency. Again, you’re living it, you’re teaching and working at a large academic medical center, you work with medical residents, right? So, you can design and customize curriculum and experiences in a way that you know, will be meaningful that have been tested. But to your point, not every medical residency program has access to a pharmacy practitioner. Especially, if you’re looking at something like achievement of goals and objectives within a residency program, it’s a really interesting opportunity. And to further that point, one of the unique aspects as you look at potentially marketing products and services out to residency program directors, is they’re a pretty well-defined market. You can figure out who they are and begin those communications and the network of those folks is relatively small versus blasting out the service more broadly. 

So, tell us more about Pharmacy & Acute Care University. What do you offer? You’ve mentioned a couple things with the reference library, community forum. What are the core offerings of Pharmacy & Acute Care University?

[00:14:23] JP: Absolutely. So, we have a few. Our main ones I’ve mentioned before is the reference library where again, we collect this content and save you time by putting it to where you have a quick review. So, we not only give you the guidelines and a primary articles, we can give you review articles and something that other places and other platforms haven’t included, is the podcasts and blogs that are out there, that are also pretty useful. We get all those things together because we know that our residents, we know that our physicians and PA, NP, are using those blogs. So, why don’t we look at those, examine and see if they’re useful and provide them with something that they’re going to use as well.

[00:14:59] TU: That component of that can be our master classes. This is our traditional course. I think this is something that most people are familiar with, where you go through some modules, you answer a few questions, there are some videos and different multimedia. Again, you can do on your own time, on demand class. The most popular of our platform is going to be the live seminars, and that’s basically you have a live event to where I open this up to everyone, and we can get some continuing education credit for it as well, and we those at least once a month, and that’s again, open to everyone. And then from there, if you want to get access to the slides, you want to get access to recording or continue education, that can be available inside our membership.

And lastly, something that’s new that our audience ask for was literature review. So, where we examine an article every other week, and we’re going to continue to expand this, and we break down an article based on our review. So, we read article, we provide our analysis of what it is and how to utilize that within practice, and we send you a summary of that to your email. So, if you can listen to the five to 10-minute spiel on it, you can. But if you just want to get to the bare bones, and add that to your knowledge, we have a handout that we send you every few weeks that you can just get continually updated information that’s out there in literature.

Lastly, for our more advanced practitioners, and really everyone can use this, is our patient case questions. So, we can provide you information up front, but how do you know if you really know it? Or you think I’m an advanced practitioner, I know these different things. Well, how about you test that knowledge and see if you really do and see if you can do some space retrieval and bring back some things that you highly haven’t studied in maybe a couple of months or even years. So, that’s one of the things that we’ve added on to where – this is why I call, pack you a complete, an all in one platform is simply because we can teach you something, you communicate within the community forum, but you can also test yourself and get continuing education. So, you don’t really have to leave outside of that ecosystem that we’ve created to get almost anything else. And if there is, again, I made it to where we have a wish list within our forum, to where you can put in what you want, and I work on using my network to build those things.

[00:17:10] TU: I love it. It’s such a cool example of how you’ve been able to monetize the clinical expertise, but also be able to fill a gap that’s out there and be able to serve other pharmacists and healthcare professionals with these resources. I want to dissect a little bit of what you’ve done, because I think for many that are listening that say, “Hey, I think I could monetize my clinical expertise.” And that could be building something like you’ve built it, or I’m also thinking about, a shout out to Kelley Carlstrom, at Kelley C., PharmD that has built an incredible community for oncology practitioners. Or it could be somebody that is thinking, “Hey, I want to contribute to a community that already exist.” One like Jimmy has built or one like Kelley has built. But that can be overwhelming to think about building something.

So, I’m looking at your site and you’ve described all of these products and offerings. You’ve talked about a reference library, a masterclass, community forum, live seminars, a membership feature. You’ve talked about literature reviews which you’ve launched more recently. There’s a membership component to login. You’ve talked about a podcast, a blog, a social community, there’s a lot of pieces that are there. And so, the question is not just the time investment, but also, where do I start? Where do I start?

So, if you take yourself back to the beginning of this journey, and obviously you’ve evolved and built this over time, and you have plans to continue to do so as you just mentioned, where did you start from idea to, “Hey, I just want to take one step forward on this path towards building this vision.” What were those first one or two or three steps that you took to build what is now up on the website?

[00:18:42] JP: I think the big thing, particularly when looking at Pharmacy & Acute Care University, and I call it PACU, for short. The first thing that I did was, I knew that I didn’t know much about building this platform. One of the things I did was actually reading a book called Who Not How by Dan Sullivan, and it really opened my mind. Because the first thing I did was read that book, and I realized that I didn’t have to know everything. Once I got out of that fear, it’s more of a mindset shift. So, I think the first step is just figuring out where your mindset currently is. And ask myself, “What do you want to do? Do you want to educate people? Do you want to connect with people?” For me, one of the things that I enjoyed the most was educating. It’s something that I did within residency first, with just doing the pharmacy pearls. And that was something that I just did for the Emory residence, and I just did – on a Friday, I will get a small topic and go from there. And I realized that that was something I really enjoy, and I thought to myself, if there was a way for me to bring that type of information, that feeling that I got to a wide source of people, and if I can make a business around it, would it be something I can do? And I knew at the time I didn’t know how to do that. But I read that book and it was Who Not How, then I realized, I say okay, “Who do I need to know or who knows this type of platform that I can build?” I got a podcast called The Membership Guys and they would talk about how to build their own memberships and I read a book on that. And then they walked me through step by step.

So, I think the mindset was first and then figuring out that there’s other specialists, and that’s what’s the first step for me, just reading a book. The very first step was reading a book and figuring out that I really enjoy educating. So, the book, the mindset change, and just figuring out what at the simplest level, what do you want to do? And for me, it was figuring out a way to educate and connect with people.

[00:20:40] TU: I love that, Jimmy. And the reason I asked that question, and I can remember my own journey is a lot of people will start with an idea. And if you think about this, like a visual of a roller coaster. You ride that energy high of the idea, you’ve got a solution to a problem that you see out there, and then you start to get into the weeds, right? And some people jump into WordPress, some people jump into logos, some people jump into how am I going to price my products or services or offerings, and that is typically where people get hung up, they might get lost, they might get overwhelmed. And I think the advice you give on mindset shift, and even that next step of a book, it was Who Not How by Dan Sullivan. We’ll link to that in the show notes.

But that’s one tangible step, I can read something that can evolve my thought process, it can open up my eyes to before I get into the weeds, who might help me on this journey along the way and make sure that I can keep that momentum going forward. So, my question building on that, Who Not How is as we look at PACU and what you have offered today, I’ve gotten the impression based on our conversation that it’s not just Jimmy, there’s other people that are involved in the business, whether that’s contributors, whether that’s contractors that you’ve worked with, to help you build out the site and other things. Is that fair? And if so, tell me more about the infrastructure of who’s helping you build the community that you have?

[00:21:54] JP: Absolutely. One of the things that I took my – when I first started off, I didn’t want to make this about me. Because again, at some point, I won’t be able to do all aspects of this. And it became very overwhelming when I thought I had to. So, after I read that book, I said, “Okay, who can – I need a website.” So, it’s like, “Okay, who can build a website?” I went through and looked on a free app, I looked on Fiverr, I looked at all these different platforms, and I just interviewed many different people. They got me the first person and I had a good interaction with that. So okay, how can I get more people? I did trial and error of finding different virtual assistants, finding different contributors. And I came to the point to where I said, okay, I have a basis of people who can web design and develop, and the next step was getting someone who can handle some of my more operational task. So, I hired someone on for that.

And then the next big step that I think, is not only going to help me, but I think is going to help the majority of the community is when I started getting guest writers and guest presenters to come on, and people really enjoyed that. What I start to realize is that many people, they want a platform to present. They want a platform to display what they know, because for one reason or the other, if they don’t have a certain credential, or they don’t have a certain – they didn’t go to a certain school, they may have been overlooked for these presentations, because you only have so many national conferences and ways to present, and people need it for the CV, people need it for their own conference, to be honest. So, I started reaching out and say, and ask some people on Twitter, “Hey, who will be interested in contributing to the platform?” And there’s many ways you can do it. Well, do you like to speak or not?

I noticed that there are certain people who just want to get presentations live. And then I noticed there was a group of people who they wanted to contribute, but they really didn’t want to face shown, they really didn’t want to be heard, they really don’t like their voice. I would say that, a little bit over 60% of my platform can be produced with not any voice, not with video and things of that nature, and people really took hold to that. And now, we’re to the point to where we have a rotation of probably 20 to 30 pharmacists that contribute on a platform. And that’s when things really started to take off. Because I started being more from a managerial and more operational standpoint, and being able to assign work, assign task, and really use my platform to connect with people, versus having to worry about creating the content consistently. And that’s really given me some satisfaction in my personal life. I think I’ve been able to meet more people that I wouldn’t have met if I wouldn’t have reached out to them and be contributors.

[00:24:30] TU: That’s a really important evolution in the business. Because I think that as you’re talking about here, you have 20 to 30 plus contributors, and obviously, your time is a finite resource from your sanity, as well as just hours that are in the day. But I would also argue and I think your point about, “Hey, this can’t just be about Jimmy is a really important one.” Because if you’re solving a problem and filling a need that’s out there in the market, your time was eventually going to become a rate limiting step to what you were going to be able to do in terms of the value you were going to provide to the community.

So, I think as you now building out this infrastructure of contributors, obviously, you’re able to begin to expand the work and the reach of that. Let me ask a follow up to that, and I think maybe some folks might be uncomfortable with that span and control. Yes, I get excited about the mission, and the work can move forward, and I’m not always writing them. But am I losing the potentially the quality or the span and control? How do I oversee all this? So, has that been a challenge for you? Or what have been some systems that you built to help with that?

[00:25:32] JP: Absolutely. One of the things that happened initially, I was getting some work done, and I got medical writers that can help with creating some of this content, and I noticed that it just wasn’t up to par from the advanced practitioner. And I noticed a big difference when a pharmacist create my information versus someone who wasn’t necessarily within pharmacy, or I would say, wasn’t an acute care pharmacy. And I noticed that as I’m getting ready to review this information, it was so much that I had to change and I noticed I need someone who gets it. And it’s someone who understands that and maybe the next limiting step was me editing that material.

So, one of the aspects of how I added on, I say, okay, I’m going to have to contributor who make the content, but also have a contributor who’s my editor, who edit this stuff before I see it and get it cleaner, and go back and forth from that standpoint. And that really helped quite a bit because it made me feel more comfortable with that content moving forward, versus me thinking, I had to change that, and I’m already making content as well. So, that was the big step. But it did make me feel a little uncomfortable again, because some of the things that was important to other people, other editors, wasn’t necessarily as important to me. But I realized it may be important to my audience. And that’s where it really became more prevalent that I needed to make sure I empower my editors, I empower my contributors. Because, again, they’re going to be the ones that build this platform to really be something that’s much bigger than what it currently is now.

[00:27:01] TU: So, as I hear you talk about this journey, and the work and the systems and the processes that you’re building now, I think a natural question is, Jimmy, how are you doing this? So, you’re working full time, you’re working in a large academic medical center, you mentioned a teaching component, which anyone who’s been in a shared faculty role, you know that that in and of itself can feel like more than one job. You’re teaching trainees, I suspect, medical residents, pharmacy residents, pharmacy students, medical students. So, how have you been able to balance this or maybe balance isn’t even a thing, as you’re getting it off the ground. But tell us more about the strategies that you’ve employed, to be able to work on this and move the mission forward. But also, make sure that you’re keeping yourself well throughout the journey?

[00:27:43] JP: I think one of the biggest things that came up was, I had some advice to make sure you make systems for everything. And I didn’t necessarily know what that meant, until I started building this. Because again, when you’re by yourself, you’re the system. But when you start to train other people to do a task, and you realize that you have to give very detailed instructions, or you’re going to spend more time revising things. So, I started using, again, everyone has their own productivity manager, I use the platform Click Up, and that’s where I basically have everything lived. So, everything has his own bucket. And within there, everything has their own sub tasks and different checklists to get a single task done, and I’ve worked with my assistant to where some of the more difficult tasks, I would have her go through it, but then create instructions on each step. Pictures and do think different things like that.

So, when I assign this task with someone else, they can go through and pretty easily get those things done. And once I built up a big base of that, I started using it for everything. So, even for, in my role within my course, every class have a certain lesson plan, every class have a certain setup, a certain thing that need to happen. I have made templates for emails I’m going to send. I’ve made templates for – on top of the discussions that I have. So, all these things have their own system now. And now, it’s been a couple of years where most of the – if I’ve done it two or three times, I just spend a little extra time making the system out of it, and I just use that over and over again. So now, it takes to where I can focus my time on creating new platforms and creating new systems, and all the ones I’ve done in the past, I just reuse that. It’s been phenomenal for me in saving time. And again, almost everything that I do now from the production of a podcast, from creating the conference, I’ve done it now more than once, and it’s easier for me to be able to put those things on autopilot, so to say.

[00:29:39] TU: I love that, Jimmy. I did an episode recently, 265 where we talked about – we’ll link to that in the show notes, 10 lessons learned from employed entrepreneur. And that was one of the things that I talked about, because it’s so important as you think about, again, how can this continue to grow and evolve and the question I encourage folks to think about that are beginning as a solopreneur and looking to build out some of the systems is, if you were to walk away for a month, you’re to take a break, something were to happen that you needed a month off, would the business be able to continue to go on and ideally grow in your absence? That question really forces the – okay, what are all the hats that I’m wearing, and are things documented in a manner that someone else can be trained up? And ideally, over time, people are able to take on those roles so that you can continue to move forward and grow the business.

Two books I would recommend on this concept that Jimmy is talking about here, we’ll link to these in the show notes E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. Great book that talks about the concept that that Jimmy just outlined, and then Procrastinate on Purpose by Rory Vaden talks a little bit about this concept as well that I think folks may find helpful.

Jimmy, my last question for you is, given this as a financial podcast, one of the big upsides I see as a side hustle or a business, especially as people are working full time, is it allows them to supercharge and accelerate their financial goals, whether that be debt repayment, saving for the future, having some extra cash on hand, whatever be the case. So, my question is, how has developing PACU, how has that helped you reach or advance your, your financial goals that you’re working on?

[00:31:14] JP: Absolutely. I think one of the big things is during this same timeframe reading and develop myself for this, I’ve learned where it’s the best to place money and how to have money work for you. And the biggest things as additional income start come again, I realized that, okay, I could really look to something to where it can not only supplement income, but potentially with greater success, being able to kind of take over part of that. So, it’s really helped me – the ideal of retirement has completely changed my mind. It used to be an age, but now it’s a number.

So, when I talk to my family, and I talk to everyone around me, there’s a certain number that I had to get to per month, to where I feel that I’ll be comfortable enough to not be full time anymore. I know what that number is, for part time. I know what that number is for 0.75 FTE, and it’s really changed my mindset. So, the biggest benefit to me is understanding that not only can money work for me in other aspects that will benefit from PACU, but it also, is going to allow me more time to spend time with family, to travel, do things of that nature. So, it’s actually given me a different approach to what retirement looks like, and really, to feel comfortable in that space. So, that’s the big thing for me, is spending more time with family, and change the mindset from when to and what that number looks like.

[00:32:35] TU: It’s great stuff, and I think as you talk about, it’s a number, not an age. We’ve talked about that on the show, and one, it gets me excited for your journey is not only is it about being able to spend more time with your family and friends and enjoy the experiences you want, but also connecting to our conversation just a moment ago, because you’re building the systems and processes on where it will go, the mission of what you’re working on, because you’re going to have other folks that are involved. And so, as you’re spending more time with family and friends, and enjoying those experiences, the company, the mission, the work, can still advance, even in your absence. So, this has been awesome. So excited for you, Jimmy and what you have a future in your community. We’ll link again to the PACU website. Where is the best place that listeners can go to find you and to follow your journey?

[00:33:20] JP: I think Twitter is going to be the best place to catch me, where I’m the most active, @PharmD_intheED. That’s where I spend a decent amount of my time. Again, if you’re interested in the PACU platform, we have platforms on all the social media, so LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, all those things we have platforms there. So again, I’ll be aware of any information that’s coming into those platforms, and Twitter is probably the easiest place to catch me. Again, @PharmD_intheED.

[00:33:47] TU: Awesome. Thank you so much, Jimmy for taking time to come on the show. I appreciate it.

[00:33:51] JP: Tim, it has been an absolute pleasure. Again, we follow you guys for a while and this is something that again, it’s really, I’m looking forward to.

[00:33:57] TU: Thank you

[OUTRO]

[00:33:58] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. 

Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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[pt_view id=”f651872qnv”]

Dr. Warda Nawaz discusses what led her to leave her full-time pharmacy job just 3 months in, how and why she pivoted to a career in writing, and what she has learned about herself in the early stages of entrepreneurship. 

About Today’s Guest

Warda Nawaz is a freelance medical writer and a creative writer of YA fantasy fiction. She is also the owner of her online medical writing business, Jasmine Medical, which empowers women to take ownership of their bodies by communicating health content that educates professionals and consumers. Warda also currently has a young adult novel set for publication, which discusses women’s experiences with misogyny, predation, and violence. Her goal is to promote the perspectives and experiences of minority women and to encourage other women to embrace creative endeavors by placing their narratives, fiction, and non-fiction, in the publishing space.

Episode Summary

In this week’s episode, Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, is joined by Dr. Warda Nawaz, a freelance medical writer and creative writer of young adult fantasy fiction. In their discussion, Warda shares what led her to leave her full-time pharmacy job after just three months, how and why she pivoted to a career in writing, and what she has learned about herself in the early stages of entrepreneurship. After walking through her pharmacy journey, Warda details how the start of her career aligned with the initial events of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States, making for a challenging and unusual career kick-off. Just a few months into her pharmacy position, Warda experienced a life-altering event that changed her career and the trajectory of her life. No longer able to endure the physical demands of her pharmacy job, Warda poured herself into her passion: writing. Now, as a writer, Warda has found herself in the medical and young adult fantasy fiction spaces. Her new career in writing has afforded her more work/life balance and allowed her to focus on her health. While she may have more flexibility, this new pathway in writing has not come without challenges, which Warda explains. Warda details how, through entrepreneurship, she has grown along the way, taking courses and coaching to improve her online presence, mindset, and marketing in her new creative career. 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Planning: Financial Planning for Pharmacists
• Schedule a free Discovery Call with YFP Planning
• Connect with Warda Nawaz on LinkedIn
• Jasmine Medical Writing
• The Happy PharmD
• YFP 259: Building a Medical Writing Business with Megan Freeland
• Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures

Episode Transcript

[INTRO]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. 

This week, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Warda Nawaz, as we discuss what led her to leave her full-time pharmacy job just three months in, how and why she pivoted to a career in writing, and what she has learned about herself in the early stages of entrepreneurship.

Now, before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one on one with more than 250 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one on one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom. 

Okay, let’s jump into my interview with Dr. Warda Nawaz. 

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:10] TU: Warda, welcome to the show.

[00:01:11] WN: Hi, Tim. It’s so nice to be here. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:14] TU: Yes. I’m excited to share your story with the YFP community, and really talk about how and why you pivoted to writing for a living, maybe a more nontraditional career path. We’re going to talk about that journey, why you made that pivot, what you’re currently working on, some lessons that you learned along the way as well. 

But first, let’s start with your pharmacy journey. Where did you go to school? When did you graduate? And what drew you into the profession of pharmacy?

[00:01:41] WN: Yeah. So I graduated in 2019 from pharmacy school. I went to California North State University. I’m from California. I’ve lived here most of my life. So I just went to a local pharmacy school, which was nice. It saved me money, somewhat. I originally had plans to do residency, but I didn’t do that. I got into pharmacy because I majored in neurobiology, physiology, and behavior. So I had a scientific background, a very strong one. 

The next logical step to me seemed like, “Okay, let’s build on that. Let’s do something with that.” At that time, I was really struggling with either let’s – Do I go the writing route? Or do I stick with the sciences? I have loved writing all my life, and it was always a passion of mine. But I also come from a community and a culture where the arts and the sciences are kind of looked down upon, and they’re not really taken very seriously. So I didn’t know if I could build a very serious career out of that, and I was discouraged from pursuing it. 

So it was a very big struggle right after undergrad to figure out, well, what do I want to do? So I stayed one extra year in undergrad to figure out which health profession do I want to go into. I chose pharmacy in the end because I ended up taking a class on the neurobiology of addictive drugs, and I got so fascinated by how drugs can change the human physiology and the behavior. I also noticed that there’s a really big problem in this country with substance abuse and drug addiction. I wanted to play a role with that as a pharmacist. 

That’s where my initial interest sparked. So I decided to go work in the community setting, and that’s what I was doing for the past two years. I was working on the frontlines of the pandemic. It was odd because I started working right when the world changed. So I never knew what a normal work situation looks like because everything was changing by the time I had just been hired. I got hired in March when the pandemic was announced. So everything had already changed. So it was odd, but it was interesting. But, yeah, that’s why I got into pharmacy.

[00:03:48] TU: So you mentioned 2019, you graduated, worked a couple years in community practice, and made a transition, which we’ll talk about here in a moment. Obviously, you’re in the thick of it in the pandemic. I’m curious, though, you mentioned a culture where some of the arts may not be as highly regarded and, obviously, we’re talking here about a career in writing. Where did that interest in writing come from? Can you remember back to your youth, having that love for writing? Where did that come from?

[00:04:16] WN: So I grew up in Pakistan. As you know, Pakistan was colonized by the British. So English was part of our language. In our culture, at least, I know growing up, I did not grow up reading books or novels per se, not like fiction novels anyway. I mean, there are books, obviously. There’s books in every country and nation and culture. But I realized there was something missing in my culture in regards to self-expression. I just didn’t see as much of people pursuing writing careers or scholarly kind of pursuits, and I had this burning desire to write stories, to share experiences. 

I remember sitting down when I was like seven years old, and I was like sitting right next to my mom. One of my assignments was to write like a story in English. My English then was very like broken and not very good. My mom had done a master’s in English, so she basically told me the story, and I just wrote it down. But it was all her ideas. I realized when I grew up, I want to have my own ideas. I don’t want somebody to tell me what to do or what to write. I want to create my own stuff. I want to write my own stories. I want to create my own material and then be able to share it with the world. 

I just didn’t have that power growing up. Like I was told, “This is what you need to memorize. This is what you need to know.” Then you just spit it out on a test, and I didn’t like that method. I didn’t like that way of learning. I wanted to compile different pieces of information and put it together, but I want it to be my own idea. I got that critical analysis and thinking, kind of learning more so when I came to the United States because the United States has a very different educational system and, I would say, approach to learning.

It’s very different from my own home country where over there, it’s more about regurgitation and memorization, which that works too for sciences. You got to memorize some things. But over here, there’s a little bit more, I would say, freedom to analyze and to criticize and to create. There’s more opportunities to publish, to write, to do things. I needed that freedom, and that’s what I was seeking.

[00:06:37] TU: Yeah. What a great time in 2022. We’ll talk more about this. But when it comes to opportunities for publishing and writing, it’s a much more open space than it used to be in 15, 20 years ago. So you have this initial flame through this experience as a child that uncovers this desire to really tell your own story, to write your own story. Then you go down this path into the sciences in the pharmacy school. But sure enough, this flame would remain and would come back. 

So a few months ago, on LinkedIn, of which I really enjoy following you, and I hope our listeners will as well, you posted about a brutal wakeup call that you had in 2020 that ultimately changed the trajectory of your career and your life. Can you tell us about that, and what shift started to happen career-wise through that experience?

[00:07:26] WN: It was actually kind of sad because I was only three months into my pharmacy, first professional job as an adult, first job. Just imagine, you’re entering, and you’re so excited, and all you want to do is go and help people. I mean, this is what I’ve been training my whole life to do, right, or at least my four years in pharmacy school to do. I was traveling as a pharmacist. I worked in the Northern California region, so I had to travel a lot. I got into a car accident while driving to work. 

The accident ended up damaging my foot in such a severe way that I couldn’t stand or walk for a couple months. My job, obviously, required me to be on my feet and to be very mobile and to move around. It was a very physically demanding job, and I was like, “Well, how am I supposed to do my job if I can’t even stand? I can’t even drive.” I couldn’t drive for a very long time. So that was a bit traumatic and also just PTSD. I didn’t want to go out and drive anymore. I was like, “I’m done.” 

I did take the time to, obviously, recover and do everything the doctor told me to do. But then I went back, obviously, because I wanted to get back in the game and do what you’re supposed to do. But I realized I kept suffering. My suffering had not ended. My pain was persisting. I was having more injuries at work. I was suffering with more stress and more setbacks. My car was vandalized, which was lovely. I mean, I was seeing like signs after signs after signs that like, “Maybe you’re not where you need to be because you need to do something where you can thrive and you can – You shouldn’t have to kill yourself for your job, essentially. You should be thriving and having a good time.” 

That’s not what was happening. I was not having a good time. Every morning, it was like waking up to like some dark abyss. I was like, “What have I gotten myself into? This is not making me feel excited.” During that time when I was recovering and I was just immobile and just sitting on my couch, I picked up my manuscript that I’ve been working on for many years, and I started working on it again. I’m like, “I have nothing else to do. I’m going to just work on my book. I’m going to pick up my writing and work on it because it doesn’t require a lot of driving. It doesn’t require me to be physically like on my feet.” I’m like, “I’m being productive. I’m using my mind. I’m using my research skills. I’m creating something. I’m being productive. Why don’t I do this? Well, why did I like leave this? Why did I abandon this?” 

That was wake up call. It was me realizing that you can lie to yourself about all that you want. About like, “This is not what I’m supposed to do.” But I think life will always try to push you back to where you need to be, sometimes in traumatic ways. But I think you need to listen to yourself and your intuition, and that’s basically what happened but in a more, obviously, very sudden way.

[00:10:23] TU: Yeah. I want to read for a moment from that post because one of the things I really appreciate about your journey is that, obviously, the impact that you’re having through your writing and will have through your writing but also the impact and motivation you’re providing to others. One of the things you said in that post was, “This, my friends, was a wakeup call and a much needed setback in my life that reset my life and career goals. Today, I no longer travel for work. Today, I write for a living. I wake up every morning, looking forward to having control of my life, building my medical writing business, and working on my debut novel, and feeling alive in the process. I don’t put myself in dangerous situations daily so that I can bring home a paycheck. I live my life with more uncertainty but also more freedom and reward. I also live with a greater appreciation for adversity and embrace it for what it has taught me.”

So as you hear those words now, a few months later as you’ve made this leap, what jumps out at you? I mean, I’m sure this has been a challenging season. It’s not all rainbows and butterflies, right? You made a significant jump from a very known entity in terms of the work that you were doing. But how have you reflected on that over the last few months, since you made that post?

[00:11:34] WN: I feel the same way. Everything that I said in that is 100% still true, still true, holds true. There is a lot of uncertainty in, I guess, my line of business, freelancing, because it’s not a set job. You’re not working for a company, and you don’t have set hours per se. You are your own boss. You have to go out and find clients. You have to take the initiative. You have to be constantly showing up for yourself. So you have to divide your time and block out your day and block out your schedule. There’s a lot of self-initiative that you have to take in order to do this work. There is uncertainty in that sense because you know that every day will look a little bit different, and you don’t know how much work that you’ll be given or that you’ll be blessed with.

Then for the novel writing, I mean, it’s something I have to block out time for that as well. Finally, after 10 years of putting it away and finally picking it up and doing it and I’ve actually tried to come up with a routine. I’m going to write in the morning, and I’m going to write in the evening, and I’m actually taking classes to help me learn how do publish authors who are successful and who’ve been in the business, how have they been doing it? Because I know it’s – How have they written like 50 novels? Like they must have a method, right? 

So I’m learning from the experts, like what did they do to make themselves so productive? Because you only have so many hours in a day and so many years in your life, so I’m doing what I can to make my time most efficient. I also use these last few months to recover. I had surgery in June. So I was also taking this time to improve my health. All of that is in your hands when you are your own boss. I mean, you decide when do you want to take a sick day, when do you want to be like working like crazy. I mean, it’s all up to you. But you have to show up every day for yourself. 

[00:13:26] TU: Warda, when you made this transition, was there any overlap? Had you been working on establishing some of the medical writing business or even perhaps some of the novel work? Or was this a hard like, “I’m out and I’m going to begin to build this thing from scratch.”?

[00:13:41] WN: No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I was already – There was some groundwork already done. For the novel writing, I had already finished my novel or my book in pharmacy school. So that was already done. That was a said and done thing. That was something on the backburner. I neglected it because I was now in the sciences and had zero time to write. I realized I can’t be writing full time and doing my day job. So I had to pick something. Obviously, the accidents and all these other events made me eventually choose one or the other. 

Then for the medical writing, actually, I had done coaching in 2021, when I was still in my pharmacy day job with Happy PharmD. That kind of helped me figure out and establish myself a little bit better on LinkedIn and also build my network a bit more. It also helped me connect with other medical writers. I met Brittany Hoffmann, an RX author, and I met Sophie Ash as well. I followed her for a very long time. I followed her content, her story, and I connected with her. I messaged her a couple times, just asking her questions about, “What is it like to have your own business, and how do taxes work? I don’t know what this is like. Can I actually make a living doing this? Do you ever find it struggling to pay bills?” 

So I asked these kinds of questions before I totally jumped because I didn’t want to jump and then not be like, “Oh, my God. Now, I’m all alone. What do I do?” So I had kind of done the groundwork, and I was talking and asking questions, and I attended webinars for medical writing as well and on LinkedIn, through LinkedIn, through people in the industry to help me learn more. I was following all these successful entrepreneurs, and I saw what they were doing. I’m like, “Oh, my God. Why is everybody starting a business? I guess this is the thing now.” 

But I was like maybe this is like the modern age. It’s like where you have to be your own boss because nobody wants to be in the pharmacy setting. Maybe everybody wants to create their own thing. But it wasn’t just for me like following a fad. It was also knowing that like I was being very honest with myself. I’m like, “If I do open a business, can I maintain it? And it also has to be a business I’m passionate about.” I was like, “What kind of business should I start?” I was like, “The only one I can think of right now is medical writing.” So I got into the medical writing coaching program in January 2022, literally January 1st, 2022, first of the year. A month and a half into it after I got one client, I know that doesn’t sound very successful now does it? But –

[00:16:14] TU: Well, yeah. You got to start somewhere, right? Yeah.

[00:16:17] WN: Right. So I actually started having people approached me and asked me for projects and things. So I was like, “You know what? I think I’m going to do this. But in order to do this, I need to let go of my day job because there’s no way in heck I can split my brain in like for my day job and do this.” At that point, I had to make the difficult decision of jumping ship and putting my resignation for my day job, so I can focus on my business. Because I was like, “There’s no way I can do both.” 

I mean, I do like the income side that comes with that security of that day job. But then I was like, at some point, you have to take a risk. From every advice that I’ve been given from the people who are way ahead of me, for these entrepreneurs, they say that you have to take calculated risks. You have to take risks. There’s just no reward if you don’t even try. So I was like, “I have to try at least.”

[00:17:10] TU: That was part of the reason I wanted to ask that question was because I hear from a lot of pharmacists that may have an idea, but they’re caught in between. When do I potentially take that risk? Can I bridge this and do two things at once? You mentioned calculated risk. Did you consider at one point like a part-time role, and then you’d work on the business part time? Or apparently, if not, like what really led you to this path of like, “I’m going to go all in.”?

[00:17:38] WN: It was at that point, honestly, my health was suffering so much, my mental and my physical health. There was no way I could have kept going at my day job. I couldn’t drive for long periods of time already. I had work restrictions. Standing on my feet hurt my foot. My work condition actually got worse as a result. So I knew if I chose my day job, just in order to keep the income and the sense of security, I was only going to dig myself deeper. I had already done that for the last two years. So I knew at that point, I had to pick me, even if it hurt me financially a little bit in the beginning anyway. 

So I had started to save up, and I was being very careful with how I was spending my money. Obviously, the coaching was an investment as well. So I calculated everything like, “Okay, how much have I spent? How much am I planning on actually making a return on this investment?” So I had to put all of that into consideration before I jumped. But at some point, you have to do it because there’s – You can’t predict all, everything that’s going to happen, right? You cannot. There’s no way. But you can just look at your bank balance and be like, “Do I have enough to kind of keep me going for the next few months? Is my lifestyle –” Like change your lifestyle. If you think you – You have to change who you are as well, right? You have to change your own lifestyle and habits that might be contributing to your financial distress. 

I’m no financial expert. You are, so maybe people can come to you and ask you about that. But I don’t invest money or anything. But, I mean, I know people do. People go into real estate and things like that. I, obviously, am way too young and early in my journey to know about all that. But I just make smart decisions and know what you have and save some for the next few months or maybe even a year ahead. It’ll help you so much during times of uncertainty or during times when you’re not getting any work.

[00:19:37] TU: Let me follow up on that because one of the things I often hear from pharmacists I talk with that have an idea and that could be a different position, that could be a business that they want to pursue, it could be a variety of nonprofit they want to start, is I can sense the passion and the idea. Then it’s often their financial position that really gives them pause about whether or not I should move forward. I think for many 2019 grads, such as yourself, they have an idea. They might be thinking, “Yeah, I have an idea. But I’ve got $200,000 of student loan debt. I feel like I need to be saving and investing for the future. I’m trying to buy a home. I’m trying to do other things.” 

So my question for you is how are you able to reconcile some of that tension personally when it comes to the finances? Obviously, position and community practice can afford some of that safety net and some guarantee to be able to overcome some of those concerns, financially, personally, to be able to make that leap into the business. Was it coming up with a certain amount of savings? Was it evaluating other parts of the plan? How were you able to think through that and ultimately make that decision, despite perhaps some of those financial stressors that were there?

[00:20:48] WN: So I’m blessed in that I do have family to support me. I don’t have to pay rent. I don’t have a mortgage. I didn’t buy a home. I don’t have kids. I can’t say that for everybody. Everybody’s situation is different. If you’re a single mom with kids, I know your situation will be totally different from mine, and my advice will, obviously, not be helpful. But it kind of helped that I was single, and I didn’t have tiny kids to take care of, and I had family to lean on to help me during this time. 

That being said, obviously, it was still a decision I made, knowing that maybe my family will not approve because it’s a risky one. So, yes, in the beginning, I was getting resistance and kind of side-eye look like, “How could you do this?” But ultimately, it was about them knowing that my health matters more than finances ever will. There is no point in being alive or having a six-figure whatever job if you’re not alive tomorrow, and you’re going to spend your days in the hospital, or you’re going to be going back to the medical office again for an issue that was exacerbated by your job. You have to ultimately pick and choose what is most important to you, what’s important right now, and what’s going to be most helpful for you in the long run. In the long run, my health was most important. 

Also, for me, writing is very important. I can lose my ability to walk. Fine. But I do not want to lose my ability to write. I don’t want to have like a hand injury. I don’t want to have a brain injury. I want – There are certain things I know I will not compromise. So you have to as an individual choose what are you willing to compromise and let go of and sacrifice in order to do what you truly love and what makes you feel alive. That even if you lose one of those things, it’s not going to like ruin your day, and it’s not going to ruin your life. 

Did my accident ruin my life? No, I think it just set me on a better path, and it helped me realize and reset my goals like, yeah, this is fine. Yes, I’m kind of in a financial rut right now. I’m not – I don’t have a six-figure income right now. I am struggling financially, right? But I have put the steps in to connect with people, which people are your wealth, essentially, right? Like your network is your net worth. So you don’t know what opportunities might come through the people and the relationships you’ve built. 

I look at it that way. If you just look at the balance sheet, then you’ll always feel disappointed in yourself. You’ll always feel like, “I’m not good enough.” I had a six-figure income, but I was not happy. So that, to me, was enough evidence to know that it’s not just about money. It’s about your quality of life. If you don’t have the quality of life you want, it doesn’t matter how much income or how much work is being sent your way. You could still be having a very bad day. So look at the quality of life, rather than just the balance sheet. 

I know in business that’s when most people like to follow the paper trail. It’s like, “Oh, how much money?” But it’s like that’s exactly why I did writing because I’m running away from that. I don’t want it to be all about that. So I’m okay not making six figures, as long as I am getting by, and I can change my lifestyle accordingly, like stop living so lavishly, stop buying unnecessary things, and lean on others. It’s okay to lean on others. You don’t have to have it all figured out. People assume that you hit a certain age, you have to have it all figured out. That’s not true. It’s a myth. Society told you, you have to have it all figured out, and you don’t have to. 

[00:24:25] TU: That’s right. 

[00:24:26] WN: Lean on your tribe. Lean on people you love.

[00:24:29] TU: That’s right, especially people. You mentioned a couple of folks earlier, Brittany and others. We had Megan Freeland on the show in 259. But others who have been down this path that you can lean on and learn from that have been down a similar journey. We talk often on the show that a good financial plan really has to be able to, yes, we got to take care of the future and plan ahead and think about 15, 20, 30 years down the road. But we also have to live a rich life along the way, and part of living a rich life is doing work that you love and contributing in a meaningful way based on the gifts that, obviously, you’ve been given and the impact that you can have. I think our work is often a piece of that. That can be so important. 

I’m curious, Warda, because I enjoy writing as a hobby. I won’t claim to be a great writer. I just – It really is a fun creative outlet. I like to do it. But there’s a whole different level in terms of like writing for enjoyment as a hobby to like going pro, right? This is like my main thing. So I’m curious, and you mentioned writers that have published 50 books and others. But how has that journey been where you’ve got to now have the discipline, the schedules, and making sure you’re writing so much per day? Like do you still maintain the energy and enthusiasm for the work? How do you build those disciplines and routines into the schedule each week to make sure that the production’s moving forward?

[00:25:54] WN: I’m actually part of a writing mastery academy. It’s basically a website created by a very successful bestselling author. She’s written like 20 novels, and she has a lot of content and coursework on there about exactly the questions that you asked like lifestyle, routine, things like that. But also like how to write quickly and efficiently so you can actually make a living out of doing this, how to sell your work, marketing because these are all these skills that, obviously, I did not learn in pharmacy school, right? These are new skills I’m learning and developing constantly. 

I have talked to authors as well. Then I’ve talked to publishing experts about like writers conferences and where you can meet people and you can develop yourself. So it’s basically like in pharmacy, where you go to conferences. You network. You talk to people, right? There’s just like that with the writing industry as well. There are so many writers conferences. I was like googling it the other day, and there’s like a million of them. I’m actually scheduled to go to one in LA. God willingly it works out in August. There’s another one in Kauai in November that I’m planning on going to. It’s, obviously, editors will be there. Agents will be there. Published authors will be there. There’s webinars, master classes. There’s workshops. You get feedback on your manuscript. I already have a manuscript, and I’m like I’ve prepared a pitch. You just kind of prepare yourself. 

For me, the daily routine – Right now, because my manuscript is done, my focus is more on preparing my manuscript, you could say, for sharing to an agent. So it has to be like polished and beautiful. So I’m like doing those last minute look through and read through on that. I’m also part of a beta reader and critique partner group in the community as well. So I have like a group of writers who are writing in my genre to read and provide me with feedback. All of that is happening simultaneously. So you have to start thinking of your writing as a business as well like, “This is my new identity. This is my career.” 

Then you start developing yourself. Go to conferences. Connect with beta readers. Connect with other writers. Have them give you feedback. Improve your work. Don’t take it personally. It’s not about you. It’s about the work and the quality of work that the publishing industry expects you to produce. I used to be like that. In the beginning, I used to take everything personally like, “Oh, my God. They hate me.” It’s like, “No, it’s not about you.” There’s certain standards in every industry, and you have to know about them, and that’s what I’m building myself. I’m learning from experts. That’s what I’m doing right now.

[00:28:35] TU: Warda, a couple of weeks ago on LinkedIn, you posted something about reaching out to an author that you’ve looked up to and was somewhat surprised, I think, by the response that you received. Can you tell us about that story and what you learned through that interaction?

[00:28:50] WN: Yeah. So as an author, a teen fantasy author that I had read her books when I was a teen, and I reached out to her, basically asking her like – I’m not asking her anything, but just kind of telling her, “Hey, I’ve read your books my whole life. And, oh, my God, I really admire you. And now, I’m starting to also become a published author. And do you have any advice for me?” Then she told me that like, “The best advice that I was given was that you should never stop writing.” She also told me about writers conferences, and she told me to develop myself more and to meet people in the industry. 

It just basically told me that even if you’re like the only person in your family or whatever who’s pursuing this path, don’t feel discouraged and just start. I think, for me, at least, I know I’m a perfectionist. I’m very hard on myself. I’m very self-critical. I’m like, “Will I ever be good enough?” But I think it starts with you not trying to compare yourself to people who are already well-established and knowing that everybody has to start somewhere. Yeah. I just loved her response because she was so supportive. It’s, obviously, a very big deal when it’s somebody that you actually read their works, and you really admire it. A lot of her stuff actually helped inspire me to get into this genre as well. So that was cool.

[00:30:15] TU: I love that that story because I think that for whatever reason, when I talk to aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs, and I encourage them to do what you just did, reach out to someone who’s doing something, along the work that you, obviously, admire and can learn from, there’s this perception that like people are unreachable, untouchable. I think more often than not, not always but more often than not, people are willing to share. People are willing to be encouraging. That might mean other pharmacists. Or in this case, it might mean not pharmacists and, obviously, other people that are out there. 

I think taking a little bit of a leap of faith to reach out to 3, 5, 7, 10 people, and get some input, feedback, someone that will be willing to take some time to bounce some ideas off and not necessarily just make the assumption that, “Oh, they’re too busy. They’re not going to take time to listen to what I have to say.” So I was glad to see that. That was a neat example. 

Warda, when I think about the transition to starting your own business, it can be exciting, and it can be overwhelming. It’s, obviously, exciting as you explore an area that you’re passionate about. But it also can be overwhelming. That there’s just a lot of things that you have to do and to put in place, and that could be things like setting up the actual infrastructure of the business. That could be now you’re having to market yourself and sales and reach out to folks. 

As you reflect on this journey and making this transition from employee to entrepreneur, have there been one or two areas that you can identify that have really been opportunities, whether you want to call them bumps in the road or opportunities to grow and to learn that you really have experienced and learned about yourself through this transition?

[00:32:00] WN: Yeah. There have been a couple of opportunities, where I’ve definitely learned new skills that I didn’t have before. Well, number one is, obviously, social media and being comfortable being on that platform. Figuring out, well, what’s the best platform to develop your presence? Depending on what kind of business you’re setting up, it will be different. For medical writing, I mean, LinkedIn is good enough. I could explore other options. But right now, I’m just staying focused on LinkedIn. It’s a very intellectual platform. I think, yeah, LinkedIn is just good for meeting other professionals because it’s focused more on your career development. So I like that. 

Then for my author platform, that is something I’m still looking into. I know a lot of authors use Instagram for that and also Twitter as well. So I was actually going to enroll myself in a master class to figure that out. There’s also a conference in San Francisco coming up in which a couple of speakers talk about what is the best platform that authors can establish themselves prior to putting their book out there. But the important part is to promote yourself and to be constantly present. That is the best way to grow. If nobody can find you, nobody – You can’t grow and your business can’t grow. So you have to be comfortable being in this space, in the public space. 

That is something that I, obviously, had to learn to do. It doesn’t come easy because I’m an introvert, and I’m extremely shy about being in this open space. It feels very awkward at times, but I know it’s part and parcel of just being in this business, even as an author. We’re very reclusive. We’re like, “Oh, don’t come near me. We don’t want cameras on us. We don’t want the attention.” But we do want our work to be known. But it’s not like – It’s hard. You have to eventually realize the focus is, in the end, not going to be on you but more on the types of work that you’re putting out there. So just learning about that, it’s a mindset shift as well. 

Also, another, I guess, hard skill that I learned, besides just developing an online presence, marketing, learning how to sell yourself. I mean, that’s pretty – I’m still developing that. I’m by no means an expert. I’m still figuring out, okay, what software should I use, if I want somebody to like buy something from me? Setting that up and also website. I have built a website, but it’s a DIY, do-it-yourself website. It’s not by any means done by a professional or a graphic designer. So I was learning about like graphic designing a little bit, like what fonts work, what colors work. I was just tinkering with it. I’m not an expert, but I’m figuring it out. What really helped –

[00:34:52] TU: Got to start. 

[00:34:52] WN: Yeah, exactly. That’s why I did the coaching program because it taught me all those skills. Week by week, we went and focused on different issues. So the first week, I think we focused on building your online presence. The second week, we worked on the resume. Third week, we worked on writing samples and portfolio, so having an actual thing to showcase. Then fourth week, I think we worked on something else. Then fifth week, we worked on building the website. So each week, we focused on something else, and that’s how I basically ended up building the infrastructure of my business like, “Okay, this is how I’m going to market myself. This is the platform that I’m going to use.” 

It’s up to you as a business owner. Do you want to have a website? It is an investment. That’s why I say like save a little bit ahead of time, so you can prepare yourself for this. But just also know it doesn’t have to be all squared away in the beginning. You can always invest more professionally later. But at least I got the basic groundwork. Also, do you want to have a logo for your company? Come up with a company name. Figure out a logo. Logo is not that important. But, I mean, it helps. It kind of makes you feel good if you created something for yourself, right? 

For medical writing, if you’re opening your own business or a company, it’s good to register it as an LLC, limited liability company, so you can protect yourself from liability. So all of that.

[00:36:15] TU: That’s great, and I admire your hunger to learn. I’ve heard you mentioned, at least three or four times, different courses you’ve jumped in to learn through new things, different communities that you’ve jumped in. So I think that hunger to learn, that motivation to recognize, it’s one of the gifts we have of living in 2022, right? We can pretty easily, if we’re willing to put in the time and the effort, go out and find opportunities where we can learn and grow our skills. So I love that mindset. I love not only the hunger to learn but also the hunger to just implement and get started, even if it’s not perfect, and really to step outside of your comfort zone. 

I would encourage you, and I think you do an awesome job of this that as you continue on this mission and the work that you’re doing, on some level, it’s a responsibility to put yourself out there because, yes, it’s increasing the awareness of your work. But I can also assure you that it’s also motivating others in their own journey. I think that is perhaps equally as exciting. 

This has been fun, and I look forward to continuing to watch your journey as you progress with the business. Where is the best place that folks can go to connect with you and to continue to follow your work? 

[00:37:27] WN: Oh, that’s so sweet. LinkedIn, I’m on LinkedIn. I’m thinking of actually creating an Instagram account. I was told by somebody in the publishing industry like, “Oh, you should have that if you’re really serious about this.” I’m like, “Okay, cool. I’ll do that.” But, yeah, LinkedIn is a great way to follow me. I don’t have any other. I mean, I do have Facebook, but I don’t really use it. So follow me on LinkedIn. Email me. DM me.

[00:37:53] TU: Great. We will link to that in the show notes. We’ll also link to the website, jasminemedical.com, if folks want to take a look there as well. So thank you so much for taking time to come on the show. I really appreciate it.

[00:38:03] WN: Thank you so much for having me. This has been very fun. 

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:38:06] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. 

Thank you, again, for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week. 

[END]

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Kim Newlove, founder of The Pharmacist’s Voice and host of The Pharmacist’s Voice Podcast, shares how and why she started her business in 2017, how she pivoted from her initial service and business idea, and what myths as a business owner she has found to be untrue. 

About Today’s Guest

Kim Newlove is a pharmacist, voice actor, podcast host, wife, Mom of 2 teenagers, and volunteer.

She earned her Bachelor of Science Degree in Pharmacy from The University of Toledo in 2001, and is an Ohio pharmacist. Kim founded The Pharmacist’s Voice ®, LLC in 2017, and launched The Pharmacist’s Voice ® Podcast in 2019. Her website is thepharmacistsvoice.com.

Finding the right voice for an audio project is important. Kim brings her years of expertise as a pharmacist to her audiobook and voiceover projects. Her delivery style is confident and trustworthy.

The Pharmacist’s Voice ® Podcast is a weekly podcast. It’s available on her website (thepharmacistsvoice.com) and all major podcast players. Kim alternates solo shows and interview shows. She shares her journey from pharmacist to voice actor and interviews a variety of people who use their voices advocate for something, educate in some way, or entertain so that listeners are inspired to use their voices too.

In her spare time, Kim enjoys spending time with family, playing Ticket to Ride Switzerland, swimming, and riding her BMW motorbike.

Episode Summary

This week, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, is joined by Kim Newlove, founder of The Pharmacist’s Voice and host of The Pharmacist’s Voice Podcast. In this episode, Tim and Kim discuss Kim’s journey from graduation in 2001 to the start of her business in 2017, the student loan debt picture in 2001 compared to today, and the power of having a plan for handling student debt. Kim explains the reasoning behind working part-time in her career and the financial decisions she and her husband made that tie into the success of her business journey. Coming from a position of financial strength because of sound financial decisions early in her career, Kim was confident investing in herself and starting her business. Kim shares the motivation behind The Pharmacist’s Voice and The Pharmacist’s Voice podcast, what inspired the name of her business, and how she was able to distill a business idea that worked for her as a mother, wife, and pharmacist. While Kim’s original business idea of narrating continuing education journals has not yet come to fruition, she and Tim talk about the evolution of her business offerings and how she was able to pivot to medical narration, e-learning, and voiceovers. Kim and Tim wrap up the episode by busting some entrepreneurship myths and shedding light on the hard work behind what it is to produce a podcast and run a company. 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Planning: Financial Planning for Pharmacists
• Schedule a free Discovery Call with YFP Planning
• The Pharmacist’s Voice
• The Pharmacist’s Voice Podcast
• Nancy Wolfson
• David Rosenthal
• Global Voice Acting Academy
• Impact Pharmacist: Start Your Own Wellness Practice and Leave Your Retail Pharmacy Job Behind! By Dr. Asha Pai Bohannon and Eric Bohannon
• Perimenopause: The Savvy Sister’s Guide to Hormone Harmony by Anna Garrett
• Kimnewlove.com
• Pronounce Drug Names Like a Pro
• Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University
• Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures

Episode Transcript

[INTRO]

[00:00:00] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast, where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. 

This week, I had the opportunity to sit down with Kim Newlove, Founder of the Pharmacist’s Voice and host of the Pharmacist’s Voice Podcast. During the show, we discuss how and why she started her own business, the Pharmacist’s Voice, in 2017, how she had a pivot early on from her initial service and business idea, and what myths as a business owner she has found to be untrue. 

Now, before we jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP Planning does in working one-on-one with more than 250 households in 40-plus states. YFP Planning offers fee-only high-touch financial planning that is customized to the pharmacy professional. If you’re interested in learning more about how working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. 

Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom. Okay, let’s jump into my interview with Kim Newlove. 

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:15] TU: Kim, welcome to the show. 

[00:01:15] KN: Hi, Tim. Good to be here.

[00:01:19] TU: Well, so excited to have you. Spent a long time in the making. We talked back in the winter, and then we had a chance to connect in person at Ohio Pharmacists Association meeting. I came on your podcast and really excited for the opportunity to talk several different things with you, entrepreneurship. We’ll talk a little bit about family. We’ll talk about personal finance. I want to start with your career and some of your career background. So where did you go to pharmacy school, when did you graduate, and what ultimately drew you into the profession?

[00:01:50] KN: Okay. If I leave anything out, remind me. I went to the University of Toledo College of Pharmacy. I graduated in 2001 with my Bachelor of Science in Pharmacy degree. I never got my PharmD. What was the next question, Tim?

[00:02:06] TU: So where you went to school, you answered that. Go Rockets, right? Toledo, 2001. 

[00:02:11] KN: That’s right. Go Rockets. 

[00:02:12] TU: When you graduated, you answered that. What drew you into the profession?

[00:02:16] KN: What drew me into the profession most was my Uncle Tom inviting me to shadow him when I was an eighth grade junior high student at Eastwood Junior High School in Somerville, Ohio. He invited me to watch him as a surgery pharmacist at St. V’s, which is one of the major hospitals in the Toledo area. I also, of course, love to help people, and I was good at math and science, and I really felt like I had all of those attributes that a pharmacist needed, being trustworthy and being interested in helping people and being intelligent and all the things.

[00:02:56] TU: So some of our listeners, they wouldn’t be aware but maybe interested to know. We share a Northwest Ohio connection. So my wife, Jess, is from the Bowling Green Perrysburg area. You’re, obviously, in Northwest Ohio as well. A little Rockets-Falcons rivalry that’s going on between Bowling Green and Toledo. So you came, and you snuck in right before the PharmD requirement, right? Because that would have been early 2000s. So you came in right before that.

[00:03:22] KN: Right. I was – One of the last classes to graduate was my class. I graduated in ’01 and, I think, in ’04. That was the cutoff. My brother, who’s also a pharmacist, graduated in ’03 with his bachelor’s. Never got his PharmD either. Yeah. It’s a great school. But, yeah, our cutoff didn’t end until ’04 for some reason.

[00:03:44] TU: And we’re going to talk in a bit about the Pharmacist’s Voice. For those that are watching this interview, they can see your background behind you. We’re going to talk about the business that you’ve created, what you’re doing, why you started it, what you offer. But before we get into that, give us some of the career journey because I think this is a really interesting part of your story and your family’s story, as we’re going to talk some personal finance here in a little bit. 2001, you graduate. It wouldn’t be till 2017, correct, that you launched the business? 

[00:04:14] KN: Correct. 

[00:04:15] TU: So give us the CliffsNotes synopsis version of your pharmacy career from graduation prior to starting the business.

[00:04:24] KN: Oh, boy. Oh, boy. There’s some retail in there, some hospitals, some compounding, and some behavioral health. I started off working at a small hospital. The schedule wasn’t right for me as a newlywed. I got married about six weeks after graduation in June of 2001. I passed the boards right away, like two days before I got married, which was kind of cool, yay me. Everybody was saying, “Congratulations on getting married. Did you pass the boards?” “Yeah.” “Okay. Congratulations on that too.” 

Then after that, about a year of trialing out, working at a small hospital and the hours not working out, I switched to working for Walgreens, and I worked part time at that hospital for about five months to transition my replacement in. Then I was working full-time at Walgreens for not – Well, sorry. Not for nine years. I worked at Walgreens for nine years, only worked full-time for about one year. Then I had my first child. 

While I was working part time at Walgreens, I worked at a small compounding pharmacy. If nobody would know the name, we got bought out by a competitor. But the focus was respiratory solutions for inhalation, and I coincidentally had baby number two, right, as we were getting bought out. I never went back to that job. I didn’t stop working for Walgreens until 2011. When I stopped working at Walgreens in 2011, our agreement, my husband and my agreement, was that I would stay home for one year. Then I would start looking for another job. 

I started looking for another job immediately because I can’t follow my own plans sometimes. But I didn’t get the jobs that I tried out for, so I truly stayed home for that one year. It was after that one year that my husband started getting other opportunities in climbing the ladder, and I ended up staying at home. 

Well, fast forward to the year 2015, I couldn’t just stay at home, Tim. I had to do something. So I started volunteering quite a bit. I had already volunteered some with the University of Toledo. While I was volunteering, I got connected with a woman who invited me to be her relief pharmacist in – I think it was October or November of 2015. I had been off the market for four and a half years. I felt a little rusty. But the job she offered me was really in line with some of my volunteer work, and it was at a behavioral health hospital. 

I worked there for one year. She moved on. I was her relief pharmacist. I didn’t feel comfortable staying without her, so I ended that job, and I didn’t work again until I started my company.

[00:07:02] TU: So we’re going to come back to that in a little bit. My first question for you, though, is student loan debt in 2001. A very different picture than what it is here in 2022, unfortunately, even if we adjust for inflation, right, which is something that we’re all thinking about at the moment. The numbers are drastically different. 

Our listeners know today, graduates coming out on average about $175,000 of debt. Often that will be much higher than that if we factor in undergrad debt and other expenses for those who go to private school. So tell us about, for you, even though that debt may have been a significant part of the journey, numbers were much smaller, right?

[00:07:39] KN: Numbers were much smaller. Yes. You know, Tim, every time you say that number, when I listen to your podcast, it moves up. 

[00:07:46] TU: It does. 

[00:07:47] KN: It used to be like 170. Now, we’re up to 175. For students listening to this, much respect. I know that’s a huge burden to take on. My student loan debt, I added this up before our interview here. From what my records show, I had $23,888.28 in student loan debt. I used 13,650 for actually paying tuition and all that. Then the disbursements were a little over $10,000, and I lived off that. I bought my books, my gas for my car at, what was it, 97 cents a gallon back then. I had to live off of that. 

I actually went back to my earnings history too to find out how much I made as an intern. In 1999, I made $10,000 as an intern, which was pretty good. But you know you got to live and, yeah, the student loan debt is real. I paid it off, I want to say, in less than two years. 

[00:08:47] TU: Yeah, yeah. I think for many graduates today, the number in and of itself is a lot to work through in terms of monthly payment. Obviously, right now, we’ve got a pause on those payments, which has certainly helped a lot of people. But it’s not only the dollar amount. It’s the paralyzing nature of the feeling that can come from that that can cloud the ability to make other decisions. 

So one of the things we often talk with individuals about is, yes, we’ve got to attack the number or perhaps pursued something like loan forgiveness. But we also need to make sure we don’t underestimate the power of having a plan. Even if that number doesn’t change a whole lot next week, something is drastically different if we can start to put a plan in place, so we can begin to move forward and consider that piece of the puzzle as we also look at other parts of the financial plan. 

I do want to come back to one thing that you mentioned because I think that we often assume that pharmacists are the breadwinner in the family. Pharmacists are the ones that are going to be making a significant income, especially if it’s two incomes that are in the household. You mentioned something that I thought was really important to touch on that others may be considering, which is you mentioned your husband and his income opportunities. Before we hit record, you mentioned several points of his career, where he had an opportunity to kind of level up to the next level. 

I think that was an interesting approach that you guys decided on as a family together that there was going to be an investment in his career and some of the upward mobility and upward nature of that income, which may not have necessarily been there with a pharmacist income. Can you talk more about how you got to that decision and why that was best for your family? 

[00:10:30] KN: Yes. If I leave anything out and you need clarifying details, please let me know. My story is very different. I mean, I come from a place of currently being a stay-at-home parent. Tim, you talk about pharmacists often being the breadwinner because they earn more money than their partner. I am a pharmacist by training. My husband is a mechanical engineer by training. 

When we started having kids, which happened pretty darn quick after I graduated, within like 18 months of graduation, I started having the kids. We talked about who’s going to stay at home or what are we going to do about daycare. At the time, we lived in Toledo, Ohio, which some people may think of as, “Oh, it’s big urban area. How can you trust people?” There were plenty of great choices in Toledo. Did we have anything set up? No. I worked full-time, seven on, seven off as a midnight pharmacist. I made a great income. 

As I mentioned before, when we started out, I also had a part-time job in the first five months of my employment as a pharmacist as a part-time hospital pharmacist. I had this income. My top earnings ever was like $97,000. I looked at my husband after we had this baby and I said, “I can make at least $97,000 working full-time as a pharmacist. Let’s look at how much you make.” Just disclosing how much he made in the year 2003 when our first son was born, it was around $60,000. He made significantly less than me. He said, “You know what? I don’t have a ceiling on how much I can make. But you kind of seem like you do.”

That was something I had never thought of. Being the mechanical engineer, a very data-driven person, and just somebody who I would actually listen to, I listened to him. What I did was I became a part-time pharmacist, full-time mom. Could I have gotten daycare? Could I have gotten somebody to care for my kids? Yeah, I could have. But we decided as a couple, that was not what we were going to do. Plus, we wanted to have another kiddo in about two years. That was just our plan. 

So I thought it was pretty hard being pregnant and being a pharmacist, standing on my feet all day, with the challenges of going to the bathroom and eating and drinking. Why would I bring that upon myself, and I’m exhausted just having a newborn? So we decided his 60,000, plus my going part-time, we thought would be maybe anywhere from 25,000 to 50,000, that would equal what my full-time income would be if I just went out and was the sole breadwinner, and he would stay at home and make no income. 

But you got to keep in mind. He had that opportunity to climb up the ladder, not just in title but in earnings. So I took that leap of faith, Tim, and I let my career take a backseat. I wasn’t that far into my career, and I haven’t accomplished that much. I didn’t have as much to lose, I guess you could say. So that is one of the factors that played into that.

[00:13:45] TU: Kim, what really stands out there to me is even in this case, you decided that for you and your family, it was going to be your career that was going to be a little bit on the back seat. Obviously, you mentioned your husband realizing that there was perhaps some more upward mobility in role over time. But even if those roles were flipped, right? Because I think there can be a lot of pride that can come through, especially for the pharmacist that may be listening. They can, “Hey, wait a minute. I just invested you know, $200,000, plus 6, 8, 10 years of my time,” and maybe this is something that they are considering as well. 

But whether it’s like your situation or even if the roles were reversed and your husband were the one to say, “Hey, I’m going to let my career take a backseat because this is what we want to do as our family,” I admire the intentionality, and I’m sure these were in-depth conversations that happened at the time. But really just the openness and the transparency and the intentionality of saying, “Okay, what do we want as our family? What do we think is best for our family unit?” 

That could be and is different for many different families, and there is no right or wrong answer. I think that’s so important for everyone to hear. But really, what is it for you that you and your family want and how do you ultimately be able to set up the infrastructure and the system that works best for you. So I really respect and admire that. My wife, Jess, and I have had a lot of those similar conversations along the way as well. 

You know what’s interesting, though? So I’m reflecting in 2022, and we think about what a pharmacist is making today. Your theory held true, right? So has the pharmacist income gone up since? You mentioned the $97,000. It has. But if you factor in inflation and other things, it really has had a ceiling, right? It really has had a ceiling, and I think we’re continuing to see that with some exceptions, and there certainly are some areas of practice where that may not necessarily be the case. 

So my next question for you is you decide in 2017 that you’re going to use your pharmacy background and degree in a very different way, in a nontraditional way, not only in starting your own business but in using your voice and under the brand what would become the Pharmacist’s Voice. My question here is what was the genesis of the Pharmacist’s Voice? I don’t know the answer to this question, so I’m excited to learn the answer. How did the idea come to be and what ultimately led you to begin down this path of starting your own business?

[00:16:13] KN: The genesis of the company name, let’s start with that. It came incredibly organically because I wanted to take my background as a pharmacist and my speaking voice or my voice and writing and combine them to do something in commerce, creating a company that did something. I knew I wanted to use my voice. Now, the why, why did I want to use my voice? That is like the best part. 

I have a son with autism. He is currently 19 years old, almost 19 and a half. I can’t believe it. He is nonverbal, and the thing that happens to a lot of people who have a child with challenges happened to me. If you’ve ever seen people on the news that have a child in a wheelchair, and the parent becomes a marathon runner, and they run those marathons together, and the parent is pushing the wheelchair. Or if you meet somebody who has a child who ends up being a deaf child, a child that’s hearing impaired. That adult, that parent learns sign language and becomes an advocate, right?

Having a person in my life who cannot speak, he cannot read, write, or speak that we know of, it really inspired me to respect my own voice and recognize the power of having a voice and using it. There are so many people that don’t take their passions and their strengths and use them. You have a responsibility to use your passions and your strength to do something that matters. Why wouldn’t I take my background as a pharmacist and my speaking voice put them together and make the Pharmacist’s Voice? I’ll tell you, there’s so much more that I want to say about that, but I think I should probably pause and just let you ask your questions.

[00:18:10] TU: Well, I think what I’m really curious about is you just said that there’s so many folks that don’t take their passions and their strengths and take action on it. You mentioned responsibility. I love that challenge because everyone may have a different passion or strength or a different challenge and may feel that sense of responsibility and for whatever reason haven’t acted on it. That can look like a million different things. You we’re talking, obviously, about the Pharmacist’s Voice and the business that you started. 

So my question for you is why do you think people typically are not taking action? Why are they not acting on that responsibility to be able to move forward with that passion, with that strength that they have? I mean, certainly a multitude of reasons. But if we distill it down to a couple, what do you think is typically blocking people from moving forward?

[00:18:59] KN: Man, Tim, you are so lucky I’m an ESTJ. I’m extroverted, right? So I’m not really shy about sharing, and I’m a little judgmental, meaning I’m great at making decisions. So why do people have that problem, that challenge? I want you to know, anybody listening, I’m not judging you if you have barriers to entry, if you have hang ups. I think it might be part personality. 

My personality, if you look at the Enneagram, if anybody knows that personality test, I’m an eight. I am the challenger. I don’t want to say fearless, but I’m the person that sees a problem and takes it as a challenge and wants to conquer it. I’m not the perfectionist, which is the number one, which is my husband, and he has a hard time with his perfectionism. A lot of times, I have to point it out to him and say, “Are you doing this because you don’t understand the first step? Or is it because you’re hesitant? Or have you made a list of pros and cons? I mean, help me understand.” 

For example, he lost his job at a company he was with for more than 12 and a half years in April of 2020. It was April 30th or May 1st of 2020, right as the pandemic was –

[00:20:27] TU: When it started. Yeah. Geez. Yup. 

[00:20:30] KN: Yeah, yeah. So being the support person I am, I wanted to go out there and like a light switch, turn on the business and say, “Oh, I’m going to go out and make all this money.” But voiceover, what I do the voiceover industry, it’s not like having a light switch. You can’t just turn it on. But anyways, what gets in people’s way is – I want to use my husband as an example. He wants to play a matching game. He is a mechanical engineer by training. So when he thinks about getting another job, he wants to match the words mechanical engineer with somebody who’s looking for a mechanical engineer. 

What I taught him about just all the things that I know from marketing and communications and storytelling is that what you really need to think about is all those things in the Ikigai. What do you love to do? What does the world need? What can you get paid to do? All those things. What do you value? Do you want to have to travel to Asia all the time, which is what he was doing two to three weeks at a time, up to five times a year? It was hard on our family. So anyways, that was one of the things, perfectionism.

[00:21:44] TU: Well, and we know that the matching game and perfectionism doesn’t go too well with entrepreneurship or starting something new. So my question for you here is I talked with many pharmacists, probably one or two a week that I can tell they’re on fire, and they’re passionate about something. That something could be another W-2 job. That’s something could be, “Hey, I’ve got this great idea for a book or a podcast or this nonprofit.” I had somebody messaged me recently about an idea they have for a nonprofit or a business idea, whether that’s a service-based or a product-based business. 

But when the conversation moves to, well, what’s next, what’s next, I can tell instantly the tone of voice shifts. Fear starts to come into the equation. More often than not, there starts to be a paralyzing reality of like, “I don’t know what the next step is.” So I’m thinking about those number one Enneagram perfectionists that are out there versus the eight challengers, where you might have an idea, and it’s not all fully fleshed out. Great, I’m going to do one thing that’s the next thing, just to get momentum on this. Then it’ll be messy, and it’ll get better, and I’ll get better, and I’ll get better. I get that, but a lot of people are not comfortable with that. 

So my question is for folks that are listening and saying, “I have an idea. I want to do X, Y, or Z. But there’s 15 things that I’m not sure exactly where do I go next,” like what advice would you have for them? I mean, even if you think about the Pharmacist’s Voice, and I’m looking at your background, and you’ve got nice logos, and you’ve got services and offerings and web things and courses we’ll talk about, that can be overwhelming. So like what is the next step, and how do people discern that?

[00:23:28] KN: Oh, Tim. This is such a great question. I’m so excited to answer this. I had to do this too. I have that problem too. In fact, I have a whole podcast episode about how I funneled all my ideas down to one, and it comes down to, okay, if you can imagine a funnel. Everybody listening to this has been to pharmacy school or their students, right? I mean, think about compounding lab, and you’ve got a funnel. In the top of the funnel, it’s broader than the bottom of the funnel. You put all of those ideas down in the top of the funnel, and you’re going to distill it down to just one. That’s going to pop out the end, and that’s going to be your one that you run with. 

I had all these ideas, and I just put them in that funnel. I mentally worked my way through each of them to find out if they were even possible. In doing that, I figured out that my number one barrier to using probably four or five of my ideas was childcare. I have a child who, at the time, was only – Was he 15? I think he was only 15. But still, rapidly approaching adulthood, can’t read, write, or speak. I’m going to be taking care of this person. I’m going to be as guardian. I’m going to be his full-time caregiver, until death parts us. I’m not trying to be morbid. Sometimes, when you have those constraints, it makes all your decisions that much easier. 

So when I found out that childcare seemed to be my biggest barrier, I realized I needed to find something I could do in the gig economy. It was just that easy, and I knew through my passions, through respecting the voice, and wanting to do something with my voice, that, heck, yeah, I could continue to volunteer when I have time. People don’t expect you to show up when you volunteer 100%. You let them know the expectations. If they can deal with it, they let you continue to volunteer, right? It’s okay to volunteer. You discover your passions that way. 

But then in going through mentally all these ideas, I figured out that I could not go to people’s houses and help them with their medication lists and cleaning up their closets. What if they were running late? What if I was running late? What if there was a school delay or a closing or whatever? I had a sick kid. I would have to cancel on them, and then making it up would be so hard. So anyways, all those things really added up. 

Then talking to other people, Tim, that’s so important. All of your listeners who are interested in entrepreneurship should really be talking to people who do the thing that they want to do. It’s common sense, but it’s also great advice because when you talk to people that do the thing – For example, I wanted to go to patients’ houses, help them clean out their medication closets, and help them make medication lists, just doing some basic MTM type stuff, then cash pay. So I wouldn’t necessarily have to use the insurance company’s definition of MTM. 

I found out that in Ohio, we needed to have a TDDD, a Terminal Distributor of Dangerous Drugs license. I think it was a level two or something. 

[00:26:40] TU: Two. Yeah, you’re right. Category two. 

[00:26:42] KN: Yeah. In order to have patient data in my home or on my computer. Honestly, I didn’t want to deal with that. So in talking to Sue Paul, who we both know through the Ohio Pharmacists Association, she’s an Ohio pharmacist and pharmacogenomics queen, I learned some of the issues that she deals with. I didn’t want to deal with those issues. So again, just fleshing out those ideas like how would I actually make this happen? What are the barriers I would come across? Who already does this? What are the challenges and the rewards? Yeah. Just flushing everything out. 

Out the bottom of the funnel came something where I would use my voice, and I didn’t know that I would be in the voiceover industry when I started. I ended up going into voiceover because my original idea didn’t even work. So I had to take that original idea that came out of the bottom of the funnel and pivot it to something else, which isn’t always fun because you have to admit failure. But you got to have a short memory about it. Kind of like when you’re up to bat and you strike out. You strike out. You still got that third pitch. You might fall or you might have a home run. So just keep swinging. 

[00:27:52] TU: I love that. No, it’s great. I love the practical advice that you gave, in terms of the funnel and having the ideas and talking with others, which I think not only helps you speak out loud your idea, which gets you thinking about it more, internalizing it more. It clarifies your message. Sometimes, I’ll have a great idea. More often than not, the day ends, I go home, and I’ll, “Jess, Jess, Jess. I got this idea. I got this idea.” Then I hear myself say it out loud. Then 24 hours passes, and I’m like, “That was really not a great idea.” But it was in my head, and I started talking out loud. 

Or sometimes, when I have those conversations, the ideas start to crystallize, or she’ll add to it. What about this? What about that? Have you thought about this? Those conversations of people that can help you build upon your idea, that can help you network with other people that have been down that path before, is so powerful. But you said something that the end that I think is so integral for people to remember, which is we have to, on some level, be comfortable with and accepting and embracing some failure along the way. 

I think if we can shift our mind around failure typically has a negative connotation but an opportunity to grow and to learn, but being comfortable with that, and you mentioned the first idea that popped out of the funnel, right? You had to pivot and do something else. Perhaps a whole separate conversation about how we get comfortable with failure. But I think really good advice for folks that are looking to get started because even if you come up with the perfect game plan, guess what, it ain’t going to be perfect. There’s going to be things and bumps along the road that are going to come to be.

[00:29:27] KN: Yeah. You got to have that abundance mindset. 

[00:29:29] TU: That’s right. 

[00:29:30] KN: Like there’s more than one idea here, and it’s okay to flush them out. Write them down too and revisit them because, like you said, Tim, you may come home and talk to your wife, Jess, and say, “I have the best idea.” But then when it comes out of your mouth, that doesn’t sound so good. But she’s kind of like a good sounding board, and she’ll tell you what’s good about it, and maybe you can just write it down. So I hope everybody out there has their own Jess or even a notepad and sleep on it and look at it another day.

[00:29:56] TU: I love it. I love it. We’re now – I’ve got four boys at home. I’ve talked about it before in my podcast, but it’s been fun, as my oldest is now about to be 11, and he’s heard so many of these conversations with my wife and I, just in passing. Just this weekend, he came up with, “Well, Dad, what about this idea? Wouldn’t it save time if we had a toothbrush that had two different brushes, so you could brush the top and the bottom at once? And is that something that could be invented?” I was like, “That’s it, right? You got to throw ideas out there. The process, they evolve and see what happens over time.” 

So as it relates to the Pharmacist’s Voice, what do you offer? What is the business, what’s the offering, and how has that evolved since 2017 to what you’re working on right now?

[00:30:39] KN: Starting in 2017, my original idea was to narrate pharmacy continuing education journals into audio. My original idea didn’t work. I approached all kinds of companies, for example, APHA. I approached the Ohio Pharmacists Association. I approached Pharmacist’s Letter. There were others too. I pitched it to somebody the other day, but I have a little bit more proof of concept now that I’ve been in the voiceover industry. 

But anyways, I didn’t have proof of concept. I didn’t really know what I was talking about. I didn’t know how to record, edit, and produce audio at the time. Everybody said no, and that’s all I needed. It’s not like I gave up early or anything. I just thought if they don’t like this particular idea, let’s try something else. 

What I did was I pivoted, and the first thing I did was when I pivoted, I went to talk to somebody who could teach me how to record, edit, and produce audio. Somebody who I thought could help me with that. I went to a local audio engineer, and he said, “Oh, yeah. We record people here. But I’m the one that records them. I’m the one that edits them. I’m the one that produces the final files and gives them to the client.” That’s a high ticket item right there. It’s expensive. So I thought, “Well, gosh. How can I do this at home?” 

I went on a journey of learning how to record, edit, and produce audio. I’ll tell you, that’s, for me, the hardest thing about having a podcast, hardest thing about producing audio books, which is one of the services I offer. It’s the hardest thing about creating voiceovers. I had to spend a lot of time in the trenches. Believe it or not, pharmacists would be awesome at this. I mean, if that was like part of the thing like, yes, we dispense pills. We make IVs. We mix audio. Pharmacists are very detail-oriented people. 

It turned out, I love it, and I’m great at it. So on my journey, I learned I can record, edit, and produce this. Great. What am I going to talk about? What am I going to produce? One of the things that the audio engineer that I talked to did for me was he connected me to my very first voiceover coach. I thought, “What’s a voiceover coach? I don’t know what this is. I don’t know if I want to do this.” But he said, “You need to learn how to talk and have good mic skills and all these things.” 

So I went to Nancy Wolfson. If you’re going to write this down, just please know that she is more of an advanced instructor, which is what I found out when I started working with her. She focuses on commercial narration. Once I did – I don’t know if it was eight lessons or something like that. I realized I needed to do medical narration because my heart just wasn’t into talking about pantyhose and banks and things that are on the news. Or not on the news. Radio ads or television ads. 

So anyways, I started working with a different coach, and his name’s David Rosenthal, and he’s with the Global Voice Acting Academy. Definitely look that one up because they do teach young voice actors, if you’re interested, and he helped me with medical narration. He’s like, “Yeah, you can say the words great.” I don’t want to paint him in a bad light, but he said things that I needed to hear. He said that, “You basically don’t know how to deliver. You know how to say the words just fine. You sound like you know what you’re talking about. But then other parts of the delivery are not so great.” During that whole discovery period and learning, I took group classes. I took private classes. I made my first demo. Moving forward, I have worked with other coaches too. 

Now, how did audiobooks come into this? Audiobooks came into this because if you can do audiobooks, you can do e-learning, which is what I have learned. That is what I originally wanted to do. Narrating pharmacy continuing education journals into audio format is e-learning. So I learned how to do audiobooks and e-learning. At the same time, I’m an audiobook narrator. I narrate books that are on Audible, Amazon, and iTunes. They’re for sale. 

Two examples are IMPACT Pharmacist: Start Your Own Wellness Practice and Leave Your Retail Pharmacy Job Behind by Asha and Eric Bohannon. I’ve also narrated Perimenopause: The Savvy Sister’s Guide to Hormone Harmony. So as I’ve been going through this journey, I have been figuring out what people want to pay me to do.

[00:35:18] TU: Well, I like that too because I think it connects back to what we were talking before. Now, you’ve got service offerings. But I’m guessing those have evolved and changed over time, as you kind of figure out what does the market need and want? What is the market willing to pay for? What are they not willing to pay for? Then, obviously, you start to spread that through word of mouth. 

So again, just a great reminder that as folks are getting started with an idea, where you start and where it goes is going to be an evolution. It is, and you’re going to look back and say, “I can’t believe –” I remember back to my first blog post, November 6th, 2015. I read it recently. Yes, I had a great, great story of our journey. But, wow, like writing had a lot to be desired for. I think back to the first podcast that we did in 2017. So it’s a journey. It’s an evolution, and I’m hopeful that we’ll say the same thing five years down the road as well. 

If folks want to learn more about the work you’re doing at the Pharmacist’s Voice and the offerings you have, they can go to thepharmacistsvoice.com. We’ll link to that in the show notes as well. You mentioned your summer project before we hit record, is you’re working on an online course. Tell us more about that.

[00:36:25] KN: Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. If you go to kimnewlove.com, you can see my current online course offering. It’s a drug name pronunciation course, believe it or not, and it’s called Pronounce Drug Names Like a Pro. The next online course, which I have not released yet, but it will be on kimnewlove.com, hopefully, by the end of August. That’s my goal. It will be a behind the scenes look at the Pharmacist’s Voice Podcast. The Pharmacist’s Voice, of course, is my company, but I am a business with a podcast, much like Your Financial Pharmacist. 

So the name of my podcast is the Pharmacist’s Voice Podcast. A lot of people ask me all the time, how do I start a podcast? How do you make your podcast? So this is going to be how I make my podcast, not how you need to make yours. Because a lot of people just want to know what goes into it. What does it look like to edit audio? Because you’re taking a visual representation of something you can hear, and not everybody really understands how you can manipulate something that you can see, but you end up hearing it. It’s really something. So, yeah, that’s my summer project, Tim. Thanks for asking.

[00:37:38] TU: Well, I’m looking forward to that coming out because I have a lot of folks that I talk with. They have interesting ideas or thinking about starting a podcast, and they often get hung up in some of the, “Well, what equipment should I use, and what platform should I use to record?” There’s a million options that are out there, and I like your approach of kind of a behind the scenes of what you’re doing, which I think what will give people some structure and some hooks to be able to hang some things on but not necessary the only way to be able to do or release a podcast show.

[00:38:07] KN: Yes, I agree. Tim, just to add something real quick, that, hopefully, is going to feed into me training pharmacists or healthcare providers, small cohorts, at a time how to start their own podcasts, if there is interest. So send those people my way. I would love to help them. It’d be kind of like a white glove type thing, where you have an idea of what you want to do and you want to flatten that learning curve. I can totally help you do it. I mean, I have my own podcast. I’m on episode 160-something. I know how to do this.

[00:38:37] TU: I love it. I love it. I love it. One of the things I wanted to ask you about is I personally feel that we’re in a period of time where there’s somewhat of an over glorification of entrepreneurship, and I love entrepreneurship. I think it’s something that the skills that are within owning your own business and starting your own business are things that everyone can learn something from, whether or not you have your own business. So, obviously, I’m a huge fan and have really found great benefit in my own journey. 

But I think there are sometimes some myths that come to be with owning your own business that people think, “Oh, well. If I just own my own business, like everything would be okay.” So my question for you is like is there a myth or two that you have found in your own journey and owning your own business that you’d like to share with the audience?

[00:39:33] KN: Oh, my gosh. How many do I get to share?

[00:39:36] TU: Go with it.

[00:39:38] KN: Okay, all right. Thank you for the opportunity to share this because with what I do now, which is voiceover, I do medical narration for pharmaceutical companies, biotech. I do e-learning, I do explainer videos. I do all this. People think you can just plug a microphone into a computer and talk, and the Brink’s truck will backup and dump a bunch of money in your driveway. That, I would say, is the number one myth about what I do now. What I do is voiceover, and it is not like that. 

There are actual studies now for the voiceover industry to demonstrate the people who have been in the business, who are just starting out, who work part-time like me, typically make $8,000 or less when they first start out. 

[00:40:22] TU: Per year. 

[00:40:22] KN: I work very part-time, and I make less than $8,000 a year, and I will probably say that. But it is in increasing, and I have negotiated $10,000 deals, $20,000 deals, and just the projects never went into production. So I’ve had great opportunities. But, oh, my gosh, the ups and downs of the gig economy are crazy. So I just want to point that out, and I would say you’re not going to make $100,000 right away, for sure. 

Then as an entrepreneur, I would say there’s a lot of risk, but you have to be smart about it. You have to not dump all of your savings into the shiny objects that you see. You got to have boundaries. If somebody says, “Oh, this microphone is the best in the business,” you find out what’s a starter microphone and see if you even like doing it. Yeah. If there’s anything else I can tell you, let me know because I’ll tell you. There are so many things, so many myths and misconceptions about voiceover industry alone. But entrepreneurship, I mean, gosh, I could go on and on about that, in general. Let me know what you want to know, Tim.

[00:41:36] TU: Smart risk resonates with me. I tend to have some shiny object syndrome myself. I think many entrepreneurs do, and it could be a new piece of equipment. It can be a new piece of software, right? And a new solution or course. I think one of the challenges as you continue to grow in your business journey and you grow your network and you talk with other people, inevitably, you come across conversations like the one we’re having, and someone may say, “Well, I use this tool or I use this software. I use this.” You’re like, “Oh, I need that,” right? I need that piece of equipment, that piece of software. So sometimes, the answer is yes. That’s going to be a valuable solution. But really taking smart risks and making sure you’re staying on course with the core offering and not getting distracted by that, I think, is really, really smart. 

Related to smart risk, I want to wrap up our conversation by bringing together the personal financial journey with your business journey. When I talk with a lot of aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs, one of the hurdles that typically comes up is the intersection between the personal financial journey and being able to start the business with confidence. That could be because of student loan debt. That could be because they have a young family, and there’s lots of competing financial expenses. That could be because they feel like they’re behind on retirement, and they don’t feel like they’re in a financial position of strength to be able to lean into their business idea. 

So my question for you, as you started the journey in 2017, how did your personal finance plan intersect with your ability to start the business and to feel confident making that jump forward?

[00:43:10] KN: I love this question so much. When – Oh, boy. We took Financial Peace University, the Dave Ramsey class at our church in 2013, and that made a big difference in how we attacked debt. I would say that the mortgage payoff was in the horizon. Like we were almost there when I started my business. I started my business November of 2017, right at the end of the year. Then we paid off our mortgage March of 2019. 

Having that financial freedom and really, honestly, extra space in my mind to let myself dream about what could be was huge. So I would say we started off investing in our futures through 401(k)s and Roth IRAs early. Okay. My husband as soon as he got a job that had a 401(k), I believe he was at least doing employer match and then eventually maxing out. Currently, maxes out. I think 18,500 is his current contribution per year, and that’s the maximum, I believe, he’s allowed per some law. Right, Tim?

[00:44:28] TU: It’s up a little bit in 2022. I think it’s a little bit north of 20,000, 20,500. But he may –

[00:44:33] KN: Okay. I’m sure he’ll be there soon. 

[00:44:34] TU: I don’t know. But, yeah, he probably is. He probably is. Yeah.

00:44:37KN: Yeah. But then I had my Roth IRA that I started in college because we had a speaker come to class and during our management and marketing class. That guy, I just called him up afterwards and I said, “Hey, you want to be my financial planner,” and he did. He became my financial planner. His company is still my financial planning company 22 years later, and I have all that growth and that trust and that relationship.

[00:45:02] TU: So slow steps to building the financial plan. You mentioned in 2017, specifically, the business. Having that home paid off was a big part of feeling confident to have the margin to get the business off the ground. I think that’s great because I think some sometimes every business is different, right? If somebody is developing a product-based business or a business that requires a lot of inventory, there might be a lot more upfront costs. 

I think of what we started at YFP. I believe of what you’ve done as well. Certainly, some upfront costs but maybe not to the magnitude of a product-based business, where you may need to have some more upfront capital. But nonetheless need to have a solid financial foundation in place to be able to make that journey and to do it with confidence.

[00:45:45] KN: Yes. Thank you for summarizing that. I feel like there’s so many little details that I could bring up. But, yeah, I don’t know how much into the weeds you want me to get. I think that if somebody is going to take a risk, a calculated risk, and start a business, you need to do your homework. I did my homework to find out. Once I discovered the voiceover industry, can I afford to do this? I found out that the microphone that I wanted was only like 199 bucks. I needed a stand. But I needed training. It was like $200 a pop for an hour. I needed a demo. It costs X number of dollars. Without a mortgage, we had that available capital, and we were still investing. 

Yeah. Over time, the investments – I mean, if you are faithful and you have a good strategy, you will eventually get closer to your retirement goal. But you need to have a goal in the first place, and you got to start somewhere, and I highly recommend that Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University and also getting somebody that you trust to help you with your journey.

[00:46:50] TU: Great advice. Kim, this has been a lot of fun, and I appreciate you taking time to come on the show. Again, for folks that want to learn more about what Kim’s up to, you can go to thepharmacistsvoice.com and also visit kimnewlove.com, and keep up to date with the newest course that she’s working on starting a podcast. So, Kim, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[00:47:09] KN: Thank you for having me, Tim. Take care.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[00:47:12] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements that are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. 

Thank you, again, for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week. 

[END]

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