One Couple’s Coast FI Journey
Cory & Cassie Jenks join Tim Ulbrich to share their specific path and plan towards achieving financial independence through a Coast FI approach. They talk about why and how they have aggressively saved for retirement early in their careers, how they have worked together to achieve their goals, and how Cory’s side hustle doing improv comedy has helped their financial plan all while filling a bucket of doing something he loves.
About Today’s Guests
Dr. Cory Jenks PharmD, BCPS, BCACP, earned his PharmD from the University of South Carolina in 2011 and completed a PGY1 residency at the Southern Arizona VA Healthcare System in 2012. His past pharmacy experience has included time as a retail pharmacist, outpatient clinical pharmacist, and inpatient clinical pharmacist. Currently, he practices as an Ambulatory Care Clinical Pharmacy Specialist where he applies his passion for lifestyle interventions in the management of chronic disease. Cory is also an accomplished improv comedian, having started on his comedy journey in 2013. Since then, Cory has coached, taught, and performed improv for thousands of people. His passion for improv comedy led him to start ImprovRx, where he provides seminars and workshops for businesses and healthcare organizations on applying the skills of improv comedy for their employees and leaders.
Dr. Cassie Jenks, DNP, earned her Bachelor’s Degree in Nursing from the University of Arizona in 2009, and her Master’s and Doctorate of Nursing Practice from the University of Arizona in 2015. She currently practices in the Outpatient Pulmonary Department at the Southern Arizona VA. Beyond her pulmonary practice, Cassie holds a Blue Belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and loves pursing her passion for physical fitness and nutrition. She lives in Tucson with her (very handsome) husband and 20-month-old son.
Summary
Cory and Cassie Jenks share their unique journey to achieving financial independence through a modified Coast FI approach. Cory, a pharmacist at the VA, and Cassie, a Nurse Practitioner at the VA, were born in Tucson, Arizona and live there today. Cory became interested in personal finance when he came across the Mr. Money Moustache blog. He thought that they were doing a good job with their finances, but quickly realized there was a lot more they could be doing. Cory was empowered to dig into personal finance and saving for retirement and knew he was capable of learning it. This ultimately sparked his interest and really pushed him to focus on where their money was going.
Cory and Cassie are using a Coast FI approach to financial independence, which is a variation of FIRE (financial independence, retire early). A purist FIRE approach says that you should save enough for 25x your annual expenses which you can then withdraw indefinitely at a 4% rate. To get to that point, you have to work really hard for 10 to 20 years. Cory explains that FIRE is a very viable path and if they would have discovered it in their mid 20s before they had kids, they might have taken that approach.
After having a child, they realized that they wanted to spend as much time with him as possible. They worked with a financial planner previously who mentioned three different pathways to saving. One of those pathways sparked their interest and Cory later learned that they were using a Coast FI approach. Coast FI (financial independence) says that if you save enough at a high rate for a short period of time early on in your life and career, it’s going to have time to compound and grow to what it needs to be by the time you want to retire. This allows you to scale back your work, or stop entirely, and use your time in a different way. Cory and Cassie don’t want to hit a number and then completely stop working and contributing to retirement, however they do want to contribute less and work less while spending more time with family and doing things they really want to be doing. Cory and Cassie’s why behind pursuing this approach are that they want control and flexibility in their schedule and are ultimately seeking more time, not money.
To figure out your Coast FI number, look at your current spending and expenses to see what you need now vs what you may need in retirement. Currently, their savings plan will give them $80,000-$100,000 a year in income. They are saving for retirement by maxing out their thrift savings accounts, a backdoor Roth IRA account and they then put any excess into a tax brokerage account all while paying extra on their mortgage principal each month.
Mentioned on the Show
- Refinance Your Student Loans
- Enter the New Year’s Giveaway
- YFP 104: Jason Long’s FIRE Journey
- YFP 111: How One New Practitioner is on FIRE
- Mr. Money Moustache
- YFP Podcast
- Four Pillar Freedom: What is Coast FIRE?
- Cory Jenks on LinkedIn
- Cory Jenks on Twitter
- Cory Jenks on Instagram
- Cassie Jenks on Twitter
- Cassie Jenks on Facebook
- Cassie Jenks on Instagram
- Atomic Habits: An Easy and Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones by James Clear
- Your Money or Your Life: 9 Steps to Transforming Your Relationship with Money and Achieving Financial Independence by Vicki Robin
Episode Transcript
Tim Ulbrich: Hey, what’s up, everybody? Welcome to this week’s episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Joining me today is Cassie and Cory Jenks to talk about their journey towards financial independence. Now we’ve talked before on this show about the Financial Independence Retire Early movement, aka the FIRE movement. And we did that in episodes 104 and 111. And we’re going to talk today with Cassie and Cory about a modified approach to FIRE, the Coast FI journey. And I think this is really going to resonate with many of our listeners that don’t want to necessarily grind it out with super aggressive saving rates for a long period of time but really also don’t want to follow a traditional path to retirement, which is work for 40+ years, save up a bunch of money, and then sail off into the sunset and hope there’s enough time and health to enjoy all that life has to offer. So Cassie and Cory, welcome to the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast.
Cory Jenks: Thanks so much for having us on.
Cassie Jenks: Yeah, thank you. We’re excited to be here.
Tim Ulbrich: I am excited as well. And I’m typically a ladies-first kind of guy, but I’m going to break that pattern today and Cory, have you introduce yourself first as you are the pharmacy representative here in the relationship. So give us a quick background on your path into pharmacy, where you went to school, and the current work that you’re doing.
Cory Jenks: Sure, well, I grew up — we live here in Tucson, and I grew up here in Tucson. And so I made the obvious choice of going across the country to the University of South Carolina for undergrad and pharmacy school. And so when I was there, I had chosen pharmacy as a path in high school, and so I picked my college based on the availability of a college of pharmacy. And really enjoyed my time as a Gamecock, and when I was finished, I realized that all of my family was here back home in Tucson. And as much as I loved it out in the southeast, I wanted to come back home. And so I came back to Tucson and did a residency here at the VA in Tucson. And I’ve been there ever since I graduated in 2011.
Tim Ulbrich: Awesome. So you have one of the highly sought-after VA jobs that I feel like many pharmacists — Tim Church, our very own at YFP, works at the VA in West Palm Beach, Florida, and loves it for many reasons. And I think it’s just such a good example of the level of practice that we often think of as the ideal level of practice for what a pharmacist should be doing. So Cassie, with that background, tell us a little bit about the work that you’re doing, your background, and a little bit about where you went to school.
Cassie Jenks: Sure. I’m also in healthcare, so I stayed here in Tucson. I went to the University of Arizona for my undergrad. And then got my bachelor’s of nursing in 2009. And after doing that for a few years, got a little restless. I toyed with the idea of med school but decided I wanted to have a life.
Cory Jenks: She met a strapping young pharmacy resident in 2012 that sort of —
Cassie Jenks: Yeah, met Cory —
Tim Ulbrich: That’ll happen.
Cassie Jenks: The year we met, I ended up starting grad school that year and became a nurse practitioner. And I finished with that in 2015. So I’m at the VA also, and I’ve been there pretty much since before I was even a nurse. So I’ve kind of grown up at the VA throughout my healthcare career.
Tim Ulbrich: So do you guys get to commute together or are schedules different enough that you’re kind of off sync with one another?
Cory Jenks: We had a good run of commuting. And then we had our first kid, and so the coordination of day care dropoff and pickup has sort of put a damper on the carpooling. But we did for a long time. And despite what many couples might experience, we actually really enjoyed the extra time together in the car. It’s something I kind of miss.
Tim Ulbrich: Awesome. And I was curious, we’re going to talk in a little bit later about cutting expenses and just curious if that was one area you were able to become more efficient on in terms of obviously gas and car maintenance. So let’s talk — before we dig into the Coast Fi and your journey to financial independence and how that differs from both the traditional, purist FIRE model as well as a more traditional retirement approach, I would love for our listeners to know why did you even become interested in this topic of personal finance to begin with? I’m always fascinated about where does this spark of an interest in this topic of money come from? Because I think you really see when people catch fire with this, it really just takes off. And often, in a couple, it can be for different reasons and maybe even different motivation levels, which is OK. So Cassie, why don’t you start? Talk to us a little bit about why and how you became interested in the topic of personal finance.
Cassie Jenks: Well, I’m going to have to give Cory some credit here. I hate to admit this ever. And especially so publicly. But he really started this for us when he came across the Mr. Money Mustache blog. He can tell you a little bit more about how he found that, but he kind of dove into that rabbit hole. And we both were always reading books and trying to learn new things, so whenever one of us learned something, the other person usually is at least willing to entertain the idea. So I started diving in myself, and it was kind of like a red pill moment. Once we started looking, we couldn’t stop.
Tim Ulbrich: So Cory, let’s talk about the triple M, the Mr. Money Mustache. So what was it about Mr. Money Mustache or even maybe some of what else you were reading that really ignited this passion to really get your financial house in order and then ultimately be on this path toward financial independence?
Cory Jenks: I think it was the gut punch of thinking that we were doing really well and realizing that there was so much more that we could be doing. We had worked with a financial adviser, and he actually had laid out — as we’ll talk about later — the different paths of savings. And so we were saving what we thought was well, and we had a couple vehicles we were using that maybe we regret, whole-life, for example, or high fee investment, after-tax investments. But it finally empowered me to feel like I can learn this. And so it’s just you read one article and then another, and it links to another blog that talks about it. And so from there, that like sparked our interest of wow, we’re spending — we’re saving “well,” but we could be saving so much more. And where is all of this money going that we work so hard to earn?
Cassie Jenks: Yeah.
Cory Jenks: And it was like a couple — it was like two periods. It was like the initial, this was 2017 of this freakout of like, oh my gosh, what are we doing? And then the sort of second impetus was as we got pregnant for the first time, thinking about moving to a new house, raising a family at a different place, we wanted to save for a down payment on our next house, and we looked down, and we’re like, well, we’ve read through Mr. Money Mustache, we’ve cut a lot of expenses, but where else is this money going that we’re going to save for our next house? And so it was just coming across YFP and any number of other different podcasts and books. And because we had done Mr. Money Mustache, it was a lot of library time. But.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head, you know, the magic question of where is all this money going? That’s what we hear a lot from people in our community. I know Jess and I often talk about that. We’ve talked and thought that in our own journey. And one of the other, Cassie, you said, and Cory, you alluded to, which I’ll ask you a question at the end about what are some of the recommended resources or books, but I sense from both of you really a passion to learn, you know, a passion to read, to read blogs, to read books, to listen to podcasts, and I think that’s such an important takeaway for our community that man, once you catch that fire, it is a rabbit hole that you go down. And I think that’s true of so many things in life. But here, we’re talking about really catching that personal finance fire to say, OK, what would financial independence mean for us as the Jenks, as a family, what would this mean for us? And what are we willing to sacrifice to get there? And what would that sacrifice look like? And how do we get on the same page of doing that? So let’s dig into your approach to financial independence, which we’re going to refer to here as the Coast FI journey. And we’re going to link to an article in the show notes. And we know that you’re taking a little bit different path and modifying it, but really going to compare that to a traditional kind of purist FIRE approach, and as I alluded to in the into, a typical traditional retirement savings model, which is really work for 40 years, maybe save 5%, 10%, 15% of your income and then hope, as I mentioned, that you’re happy and healthy enough to enjoy everything that life has to offer. So Cory, walk us through briefly — even though we’ve talked about it in previous episodes of the podcast — walk us through the purist FIRE approach. What is FIRE? And then what really differentiates the Coast FI path from that purist FIRE approach?
Cory Jenks: Yeah. So you’ve had a couple great guests talk about their FIRE journey. But it’s essentially Financially Independent Retire Early. So you save enough and the number that is commonly used is you save enough until you have 25 times your annual expenses and then theoretically, you can withdraw that indefinitely at a 4% rate. And to get there, basically you’re going to have to really bust it for 10-20 years, depending on what your savings rate, depending on what your own spending rate is. And as Mr. Money Mustache and hundreds of other bloggers and people have shown, it’s a very viable path. And I think that if we had found that in our mid-20s before kids, like, OK, we could have sucked it up and both worked full-time hardcore to get there. But then we had a kid and realized we want to have time with them, as much as he can be a little pain. And so I came across this idea of Coast FI. And so the FI being Financially Independent. And this says that you, if you save enough at a high rate for a short period of time early on in your life and career, you’re going to have the time and compound interest to have it grow to what you need it to be by the time you retire so that if you hit this Coast FI number, you can scale back the work you’re doing, you can take a job that has a little bit more risk, knowing that you don’t need to continue to contribute to your retirement in order to hit that number. Now I love how you like to personalize this idea of personal finance because traditional FIRE people would get angry at you for not just going all the way through and maybe Coast FI people would get angry at us because our version of it is to try to get to a number but then still work some in order to save some. I don’t think we want to hit a number and then stop. So our version is like to get to the number we want and then have the freedom to contribute a little bit less as our lifestyle changes with our family.
Tim Ulbrich: And I love, love that, the personal approach. I think for many pharmacists and maybe some heard our previous episodes about FIRE and said, ‘Hey, that’s me. I really want to be there. I want to aggressively save for 10 years, I want to get to this 25x income or the amount that I would need and do the 4% withdrawal and stop working because I either don’t like my job or want to do something else,’ whatever. But I think many others, what you’re describing here is what really would resonate as well to say, ‘Hey, I want to put myself in a position of financial independence. Maybe I even love my job, but you don’t know what life will throw at you.’ It could be that you want to have more time with family, it could be that eventually hours get cut or positions get cut or one spouse in a relationship wants to have an option to work part-time or there’s a sick family member, whatever, but you put yourself in a position because you’ve gotten to some point of financial independence that as I like to say, the exponential curve of savings takes off. And I know our listeners who are in the weeds of saving right now, especially in that first five to seven to 10 years, you know what I’m talking about where you’re saving, saving, saving, grinding it out. It feels like it’s not taking off from a compound interest standpoint. And then boom! All of a sudden that really starts growing and you see that exponential growth. So Cassie, what resonated with you about this model? And really, how did you buy into this as a vision for your family?
Cassie Jenks: So the interesting thing is way back when we thought we were making smart choices and working with a financial advisor, he presented us with three different saving strategies. One was the kind of middle-of-the-road standard, save a little every year until you’re retired, one was you wait way too long and then you have to save a bunch at the end, and then he showed us one where you save aggressive up front and then it was 0s from there down and you were done saving. And we both saw that and not even knowing anything about FIRE or Coast FI, we thought, that looks smart because we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future. So that’s almost kind of always been our mindset to begin with was always do as much as you can up front. And then as I got into my working career, like you said, it’s not about not liking your job or not wanting to work. I realized I want control. I want flexibility, and I want to be able to make decisions that are the best for my family right now. And so that’s where bringing in the concepts of FIRE and Coast really made that initial idea really turn into what it is now.
Cory Jenks: Yeah, we were like accidentally Coast FI. Like we were doing this thing that we had not labeled on the Internet yet. And so I happened to come across this article about Coast FI, and I was like, “Honey, I think this is what we’re doing and now there’s a label for it.”
Tim Ulbrich: That’s awesome. You should have branded it back then.
Cassie Jenks: Totally.
Tim Ulbrich: So you know, Cassie, one of the things that you mentioned when you met with the advisor that presented three different options, you know, the one that really resonated with you guys was aggressive upfront savings and then you can obviously continue to save, but you really could take the heat off in terms of needing to continue to save at that rate. And I think while that may resonate with many because obviously our listeners are very well educated on compound interest and time-value of money and the earlier you save, the better, the two biggest barriers I typically see to being able to do that model as it’s presented to them are student loans and that they may be in a home position that is sucking up such a big percentage of their income. So talk to us about those two areas for you guys: student loans and then ultimately the home — and I’m guessing maybe there’s some lessons here learned as well along your journey. But how have you been able to do that, despite what many pharmacists are facing, typically in high student loan debt as well as usually home expenses that certainly eat into that available income?
Cassie Jenks: So for the home expenses, I believe it was 2017, Cory did an Excel spreadsheet. And we looked at where every single penny we spent went, kind of coming back to what we were talking about earlier, where does your money go? And that was when we really started dialing down our home expenses. And we looked at all the places where we were spending money that wasn’t adding value to our life. So we stopped buying books and started going to the library. We started getting less expensive haircuts.
Cory Jenks: Cassie doesn’t charge me anything for my haircuts now.
Cassie Jenks: Yeah, I cut Cory’s hair now.
Cory Jenks: Huge savings.
Cassie Jenks: You know, they sound like little things. But we cut our phone bill, and we got rid of cable. And when we started adding all this up, it really changed our monthly expenses dramatically.
Cory Jenks: Yeah, there were a couple missteps when it comes to our housing and our student loans. I guess chronologically, I, again, am a proud Gamecock for life. But my dad teaches at the University of Arizona, not in the College of Pharmacy, but I could have had significantly reduced tuition. But they wanted me to go out of state, and so I did. And those were back in the good old days when it was only $100,000 of student loan debt that I had coming out.
Tim Ulbrich: So Cory, I think as I understand, working with the VA really afforded you an opportunity to have some of your student loans, even though you went to an out-of-state institution, had a cheaper option available, really afforded you the opportunity to be able to take some of the weight off your shoulders so that you could free up income to do other things. So tell us a little bit about what the VA provided for you in terms of student loan forgiveness.
Cory Jenks: Yeah, I was very fortunate at the time that they were offering student loan reduction program. It’s EDRP, Education Debt Reduction Program, that basically you give them your student loan debt, and they give you an amount that if you work for five years, you get x amount per year that you work. It’s an incentive to keep you employed at that particular institution. So I was fortunate enough to get that, and that really helped to cut down on my student loan burden, obviously, and I’m very fortunate to have gotten it. And so I was able to pay my loans off by 2017 I think they were totally gone. And so when you take that amount out every month, it really frees up what you have to work towards a goal like this. And for Cassie, her nurse prac school, we almost cash flowed that. She came out with like $7,000 or $8,000 of student loan debt. So that was another fortunate thing where we found each other and were able to help each other out in our journey. Once she was out and making full-time prac salary, we didn’t have that burden of her loans.
Tim Ulbrich: I love the ‘nurse prac’ lingo. I’ve never heard that before, but I feel like I’m in the club now. So that’s good.
Cassie Jenks: Nurse practitioner is just such a mouthful.
Tim Ulbrich: Yes, right? So we’ve established with this model what worked for you guys is really saying, OK, we’re going to aggressively save up — not to the level of a traditional FIRE purist approach but more so than a we’re going to save a small percentage over 40 years, we’re going to save more up front, we’re going to let that really accrue in a short period of time, and then of course, we’re going to allow compound interest to continue to do its thing over your career so you can achieve your goals but also have options to reduce hours, change jobs, stay the course, whatever. But you’re in a position of decision-making. And we established that what, in part, allowed you to do that was putting yourself in a position obviously from student loans, we talked about some of the home buying, so I want to get in the weeds a little bit more, Cory. Can you talk to us about some more details of what is your savings goal? How did you determine that number for our listeners that are maybe trying to figure out OK, what does this look like? Where do I begin? And where are you saving that money? Because I know that’s obviously a point of interest and hey, I’ve got lots of different options and should I do this in traditional retirement accounts or brokerage accounts? So talk to us a little bit more about the specifics.
Cory Jenks: Yeah. I think what we did when we were trying to figure out our “Coast FI number” was to look at what our current spending rate is now and adjust around within our budget — we meet every month and have a little budget party — and so look at what our expenses we will have now, what our expenses we likely won’t have at our time of retirement, and just come up with a number. And then we padded some to that just assuming there could be other things that we want to do or will come up. So that’s where we came up with our number of somewhere between $80,000-100,000 a year of income in retirement, which is more than we spend now. But no one’s going to be upset having a little bit more than they need. And so that’s where we came up with that number. And of course, we haven’t heard the YFP Crystal Ball segment yet, so we don’t know what life is going to be like in 30 years. So this is our best guess, our best idea of what we’ll need.
Tim Ulbrich: Sure.
Cory Jenks: And so what we do to save, we maximize our Thrift Savings Plans, which is the government word for 401k. And we also utilize backdoor Roth IRAs and any excess that we have, we just put into an after-tax brokerage account at Vanguard in just the total stock market fund. And that way, for us, that’s our other — when there’s nowhere else to put it in a tax-advantaged place or retirement-advantaged place, we put it into Vanguard. And then something that isn’t necessarily “saving,” but we do pay down our mortgage principal extra every month as well.
Tim Ulbrich: Awesome. Yeah, I was just trying to kind of figure out — and I think this helps our listeners, you know, if you think about a traditional 401k or here a TSP, we’re looking at $19,000 a year. You think about a backdoor Roth IRA is $6,000 per year per individual. We’re going to see those go up obviously in 2020, but here we’re talking about 2019. So you start to put the numbers together, and you guys are making big savings progress, obviously those are big numbers, it’s a big chunk of your income, but it’s not the massive percentages that you see in a traditional FIRE type of model. So I think that really highlights the differences in what we’re talking about here. So I want to dig in, Cassie, to a little bit more of the why. And we’ve dodged around it a little bit, you’ve mentioned obviously for you guys a pivotal moment was the birth of your son. But talk to us a little bit more about your why, your motivation for achieving financial independence and really trying to get to this point of what’s behind the effort and at some level, the grind of both cutting expenses as well as aggressively savings, which means that you’re of course giving up some things in the short term. So talk to us a little bit about what really resonates for you, what’s most important, and then how did you and Cory have this conversation and ultimately get on the same page?
Cassie Jenks: Probably the word that would sum it up the best is control, getting to have control over how you spend your day, how you spend your time. I’ve always just not understood this idea that we’re all supposed to work 40 hours a week. It just didn’t ever make sense to me. And being able to pursue other passions, there’s things we both — we don’t dislike our jobs, but there’s things we really want to do that we can’t fit into the weekends and hobbies we want to pursue. Having time for family I think most people probably resonate with that.
Tim Ulbrich: Totally.
Cassie Jenks: Getting a balance of feeling like we are raising our child but also getting to be productive employees at the same time.
Tim Ulbrich: And Cory, what about for you?
Cory Jenks: Yeah, I think that the ultimate commodity we’re saving is not money. It’s time. And when you kind of lay out, we’re weirdos. We do a budget, but we also do a time budget every month, and so we sit down on our calendar and we have our friends that we want to see every month, we have family, we have — like Cassie said — our different hobbies and pursuits. There’s not a whole lot of other time left over after five days a week of work. And so to us, we use the term sacrificing. I think Cassie and I, we talk a lot about the gratitude is a word we throw around a lot, the idea of wanting to work less is not that we’re not grateful for all that we have, but we are very fortunate in the jobs that we pursued. My parents were both teachers, her father was in the military, so we grew up quite middle class. And so we’re very fortunate to what we have. So it’s to have that time, but it really doesn’t for us feel like it’s a sacrifice. I think we’re fortunate we found each other and that we have very similar values, dreams, ideas about money. And we frame it, we take care of veterans every day. They’ve had much rougher days at work than we’ve had. Our grandparents grew up in the depression, and they had to be frugal out of necessity, and we’re fortunate to be frugal out of kind of the privileged world that we live in now. And so when we frame it like that, it doesn’t feel like a sacrifice. And then the ultimate goal or endpoint of that is to have more time with the people we care about and to do the other pursuits aside from our 9-5 day jobs that we care about.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, I really admire, Cory and Cassie, just — I respect and understand that you guys are on the same page with this, which is awesome. When two people really come together and they have a vision and you start to execute it but also don’t want our listeners to take for granted that this is hard. Two people, even when you’re often on the same page, you know, we know the friction money can cause. And I sense very much for the two of you an openness of conversation, a willingness to work to get there. And I think it’s such a reminder for me and Jess and for our listeners that it’s so fruitful when you can have those really big conversations. And then the budget, the month-to-month, really becomes an execution of the vision. And I think that’s when things start to get I guess “fun.” I don’t know if we ever use fun and budget in the same sentence. But budgeting can be such a grind. But when we’re talking about things like gratitude and really being able to capture more time and really establishing more of that family atmosphere and thinking about the next generation, and that’s what gets me excited is your 18-month-old, the position that you’re going to put your family in going forward because of all the things that you’re setting up but also everything that he’s going to observe throughout this journey, said and unsaid, is really incredible and inspiring to hear. Now, I do have to ask, Cassie, I have heard Cory say “budget party,” and I’ve heard him talk about spreadsheets. So complete nerd, obviously, of course. You know, does that resonate with you? Or for maybe some of our listeners where maybe they’re married to a financial nerd, but that’s not them. What advice would you have in terms of how someone who maybe isn’t that budget part of your spreadsheet person can really come into the fold and make sure this is a priority to the couple?
Cassie Jenks: I think talking about the why is really what gets us on the same page. I have to admit, I do kind of love spreadsheets myself.
Tim Ulbrich: OK, OK.
Cassie Jenks: But —
Cory Jenks: She also loves dark chocolate, so I get a bar of that out and it’s not hard to get her in front of that computer.
Cassie Jenks: Make your budget party fun. Like we sit down on the couch together, we have a little treat. And like Cory said, it’s our financial budget, but it’s our time budget. So we get excited making up our plans. But for us, I think what works is just that openness that everybody has to navigate finances in the relationship in a way that works for you. I totally respect that. But what’s worked for us is we know every dollar each other spends. Every account is shared, there’s really nothing hidden between us. So we have a lot of accountability. There have definitely been times where I have — I’m a little bit more of a spender than Cory. I’m not a heavy spender, but there’s times when I have an impulse to buy something. And I think, he’s going to see that, can I really justify needing this purchase right now? And that’s worked for us because we’re comfortable with that accountability together.
Tim Ulbrich: And I think it’s important for our listeners to hear in your story that it’s not just all a grind, but I sense that the two of you are having fun along the way. And it’s not just all delayed gratification. I mean, that’s a big part of it, but it’s not no fun today and all fun later. So I think one great example of that is, you know, especially the year the two of you had in 2016, which was a 30-for-30 year. Can you talk to us a little bit about that? I think that’s such a great example of having fun along the way.
Cory Jenks: Yeah. So in 2016, if anyone wants to guess our age, we turned 30 in 2016. And we were kid-free, dual income, feeling pretty good. And we wanted to do something special for turning 30 to commemorate it. And my dad — I have to give him credit — came up with this idea probably after watching ESPN of like 30-for-30. Do 30 fun, interesting things over your 30th year. Now, for us, there was some really nice trips. There was also some trips to museums, some hikes around Tucson. But it really was a special year, and as a lifelong Cubs fan and somehow who she married into it, we ended up going to a World Series game because — and we didn’t go into debt for it. We were financially prepared for it. So it was a year that allowed us a lot of fun, but it wasn’t something we look back on with regret financially. We loved every minute of it.
Tim Ulbrich: And I think for — as I heard of that and I’m guessing our listeners think the same thing, you know, that concept can be done in a very inexpensive or a very, very, very expensive way, right? I think it’s to be just as much about the memories and the planning and the fun and could be day trips, it could be something more extravagant. But I love the creativity and really making that a priority for your family. And I’m guessing you guys have a vision to do something similar as your family continues to grow. Cory, I want to ask you about your side hustle because we talk about side hustles a lot on this show, and I think you have a really unique side hustle doing improv comedy. Talk to us a little bit about that, where the motivation, where the inspiration comes from, and where you’re currently doing this work?
Cory Jenks: Yeah, so I’ve always enjoyed comedy. I watched a lot of Saturday Night Live and Simpsons as a kid. And in pharmacy school, there was an improv group at the University of South Carolina, but I was just very focused on school at the time. And so once I finished my residency, was dating Cassie, she got me an improv class through a local theater here in Tucson back in 2013. And I just did it and loved it and kept doing it. And have taught, performed, coached it. But something that really sticks out for me is that the tools of improvisation: listening, communication, teamwork, are all things that as pharmacists, healthcare providers — Cassie’s done the classes too — they’re useful and really help you connect with your patients, help you get the most out of what can be really frustrating work environments. And so doing this now for seven years, I was like, pharmacists should do this. And I’m fortunate enough to help teach a section of it here at the University of Arizona. But my side hustle now, ImprovRx, is taking this to other healthcare organizations, other colleges, other businesses, trying to teach people these tools because love it or hate it — I think we have great intergenerational workforces, but I think millennials, which Cassie and I are a part of, the generation below us and every generation can use an improvement on these skills. And not to stereotype pharmacists or pharmacy students, but we’re generally kind of Type A people.
Tim Ulbrich: Just a little bit.
Cory Jenks: Just a little bit. We were talking about how much fun spreadsheets were just a couple of minutes ago. So I’m going and I’m doing this and I’m teaching this to other organizations and in students. And I’m getting a lot of really interesting and fun feedback from people who are like, oh my gosh, yeah, you could use this to be a better listener for a patient because, you know, when it comes down to it, we can’t control a lot of our work environments. But if you can be a better listener for a patient one day, if you could be a great team member on your healthcare team, be an ear, be a better empathizer, it’s a really great tool. So that’s kind of what I’m working on right now. And it’s really exciting to get to share that.
Tim Ulbrich: I love that. And I think that’s such a great example we talk about with side hustles — and shoutout to Tim Church, he does a great job with this on our side hustle series. But I think the best side hustles are those that certainly there’s a financial piece, it helps you accelerate your goals, but it’s those things that really hit into a spot that gives you that fulfillment and allows you to serve and meet others and really identify an area that you’re passionate about but also you can essentially generate some income and make a business opportunity out of that. So I think that’s just a great example of that. Great work on what you’ve done. And I’m guessing we may have some people listening, whether it’s from colleges of pharmacy, state organizations, companies, that say, “Hey, I want to work with Cory. I want to learn more about what he’s doing with ImprovRx,” or maybe just has a question about something we’ve talked about here tonight on the show with Coast FI or what does your budgeting process look like. So where can our listeners get in touch with you if they have additional questions?
Cory Jenks: Well, I am on LinkedIn, so my name will be spelled in the show notes there. I’m also on Twitter, @CoryJenksPharmD, and then my Instagram’s more of a fun place, so it’s @pharmacomedian.
Tim Ulbrich: Love that.
Cory Jenks: And then Cassie, you’re on Twitter as well.
Cassie Jenks: I’m on, yeah, Twitter and Facebook and Instagram as —
Cory Jenks: @NPCassieJenks.
Cassie Jenks: @NPCassieJenks, yeah.
Cory Jenks: But we love talking about this stuff, whether it’s improvisation, finance, working in healthcare, it’s a really cool world we live in where I can send YFP an email saying, “Here’s a cool article about what I think my wife and I are doing.”
Tim Ulbrich: I know, right?
Cory Jenks: And we get to share that. And I think that’s really special. We really appreciate this opportunity to share our little slice of financial life with folks.
Tim Ulbrich: And I appreciate that. I’m not going to let you off the hook, though. You’re both readers, and I’m a big reader, and I’m building my 2020 reading list. So I need a book recommendation from each of you. What have you read recently that, you know, you just said, “Hey, this is a home run,” or maybe something you’re currently reading that you’re drawing inspiration from?
Cory Jenks: Alright, well, one of the books that I read at the beginning of 2020 was called “Atomic Habits.” And it’s a great book about how to break down habits — it’s not even about setting goals, it’s just kind of tricking yourself into having a better process with going about achieving your different goals. From that, I’ve developed a system for like a To-Do list that he mentions. It’s called an Eisenhower Box. People can Google it on their own time. But it’s really helped me organize all the different facets of my life, and I kind of get hung up in all of the different minutiae that can slow you down and send you into wormholes.
Tim Ulbrich: Love it. Cassie, what about you?
Cassie Jenks: Well, I have to say that Cory gave me this suggestion, so I have to give him a little credit here. But “Your Money or Your Life,” fantastic book that really dives into how much time you have to spend to make all the purchases you make in your life and to really reframe how we think about money and thinking of it more as currency of time than anything else. And that probably really drove home for me our why and what we’re trying to do with our financial journey.
Tim Ulbrich: Awesome. Great recommendations. We’ll link to both of those in the show notes. Cory and Cassie, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show to share your journey, share your why for what you’re doing here with the Coast FI, and I think just a different perspective for our audience to consider. I know you have inspired me, and I’m confident you’re going to do the same for our community. So thank you so much for coming on the show.
Cory Jenks: Certainly.
Cassie Jenks: Yeah, thank you.
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