YFP 362: Fatherhood, Family, and FIRE with Author Cory Jenks, PharmD

Cory Jenks, PharmD, author, speaker and comedian talks about his newest book on fatherhood titled, “So I Guess I’m a Dad Now.”

Episode Summary

On this episode, Tim talks with Cory Jenks, PharmD, a comedian, pharmacist, author, and speaker who helps create more adaptable, empathetic, and humanizing healthcare experiences. Cory shares his journey of writing his second book ‘I Guess I’m a Dad Now’, why he chose to write a book on fatherhood, the strategies he has employed in his journey of being a dad to three kids ages six and under, and why he and his wife Cassie used a Coast FIRE approach for their financial plan.

About Today’s Guest

Cory Jenks is a convention breaking pharmacist, comedian, author, speaker, and dad from Tucson Arizona. Since earning his Doctor of Pharmacy degree in 2011 from the University of South Carolina, he has been on a mission to help people get off medications through lifestyle. Since 2013, he has taught, coached and performed improv comedy for thousands of people. And since 2022 when his 1st book Permission to Care: Building a Healthcare Culture that Thrives in Chaos, came out, he has been making readers laugh out loud while reading.  His newest book, I Guess I’m a Dad Now, provides practical and hilarious tips, tricks, and stories to help new dads earn that “#1 Dad” shirt they will inevitably be gifted on Father’s Day. With the little spare time he has, Cory enjoys harvesting rainwater, raising chickens, and attempting to play various sports with variable success. He is currently earning his Master’s Degree in Dad Jokes with the help of his daughter and two sons.

Key Points from the Episode

• Fatherhood and new book release with comedian pharmacist. [0:00]
• Fatherhood, healthcare, and intentional living as a pharmacist. [3:42]
• Fatherhood, self-deprecation, and humor. [7:39]
• The importance of being physically fit for dads, using examples from the speaker’s personal experience. [11:51]
• Daily routines for physical and mental well-being as a busy dad. [17:43]
• Parenting challenges and finding balance between work and family life. [21:56]
• Balancing work and family life, prioritizing presence and play with children. [25:59]
• Community and support for dads, emphasizing the importance of having a tribe for mental health and personal growth. [31:40]
• Fatherhood, finances, and intentional spending. [35:01]
• Financial planning and saving for a couple with different saving mindsets. [39:05]
• Parenting, financial planning, and work-life balance. [42:20]

Episode Highlights

“And I think that with what I’m doing with this fatherhood book, and what I do with my other speaking, it’s, it’s not just healthcare in comedy, it’s it’s being willing, able, and I’ll use the word brave enough, to break the conventions to live that for life, too.” – Cory Jenks [6:13]

“Humans are humans regardless of their credentials or degree and you can go a long way just living those simple tenets. So a lot more showing than telling, which is great. Set a great example and your kids will do what you do as well.” -Cory Jenks [14:30]

“My vision as a dad is to help my kids fulfill their full potential being physically fit, in addition to mentally fit. Is this an important part and being financially fit as well.” – Cory Jenks [17:26]

“Playing with your kids is just so much fun. And I think the simplicity of that wins out over almost every complicated vacation, app, toy, tool, tech thing you want to do.” – Cory Jenks [31:14]

“I think for a lot of dads who I’ve talked to, they had these like relief moments of like I’m not feeling who feels like this. I’m not alone in this. And guys are not known for our open communication. So if you can find a real life tribe, if it’s an online community, but it’s really supportive and productive, that’s great too. And then sometimes reading a book that makes you laugh and realize okay, I’m not the only idiot dad that does dumb stuff sometimes like okay, if Cory did that, then you don’t feel so bad if you made that mistake, too.” – Cory Jenks [34:18]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Planning
• YFP 134: One Couple’s Coast FI Journey
• YFP 196: How Cory Uses Improv to Create a Better Healthcare Experience
• YFP 356: How to Successfully Navigate Finances with Your Partner 
• I Guess I’m A Dad Now by Cory Jenks
• Cory Jenks
• Cory Jenks on LinkedIn
• Cory Jenks on Instagram
• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter
• YFP Disclaimer

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich  00:00

Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to the YFP Podcast where each week we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom. This week I welcome Cory Jenks on to the show a comedian pharmacist, author and speaker who helps create more adaptable, empathetic and humanizing healthcare experiences. During the show Cory and I dig into his journey of writing his second book, I Guess I’m a Dad Now, why he chose to write a book on fatherhood, the strategies he has employed in his journey of being a dad to three kids six and under, and why he and his wife Cassie, used a Coast FIRE approach to their financial plan. 

Tim Ulbrich  00:36

Now, before we jump into my interview with Cory, I have a hard truth for you to hear. Making a six figure income is not a financial plan. Yes, you’ve worked hard to get where you are today. Yes, you’re earning a good income. But have you ever wondered, Am I on track to retire? How do I prioritize and fund all these competing financial goals that I have? How do I plan financially for big upcoming life events and changes? Whether that be moving, having a child, changing jobs, getting married or retiring? Or perhaps why am I not as far along financially at this point in my career, as I think I should be? One of the answers may be that your six figure income, while good is not a financial plan. As a pharmacist, you have an incredible tool in your toolbox. And that’s your salary. But without a vision and a plan that good income will only go so far. That’s in part why we started Your Financial Pharmacist back in 2015. At YFP, we support pharmacists at every stage of their careers to take control their finances, reach their financial goals, and build wealth through comprehensive fee only financial planning and tax planning. Our team of professionals, including our Certified Financial Planners and our CPA, works with pharmacists all across the US to help our clients set their future selves up for success while living a rich life today. If you’re ready to see how YFP can support you on your financial journey, you can learn more by visiting yourfinancialpharmacist.com/learn. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/learn. 

Tim Ulbrich  02:09

Cory. Glad to have you here. Glad to have this time together.

Cory Jenks  02:12

It’s always special with you, Tim. I was just saying before we went live, you’re super generous, super helpful, super supportive. And as a pharmacist and a dad and anyone in this community, you really lift up a lot of us. So thank you. You have been buttered up. Let’s go.

Tim Ulbrich  02:30

Well, I have been looking forward to this. Fatherhood is one of my favorite topics to talk about. We’ve got a couple neat interviews lined up, including yours. My dad’s coming on the show to do an interview next week leading up to Father’s Day, you released a brand new book, I guess I’m a dad. Now we’re going to talk extensively about that. I got my copy, which I feel super special to get a copy of this. I had a chance to read it. I think it was in the near final draft. It was really darn close several months ago and you just did a awesome job. We’ll talk more about that here in a little bit. And we’ve had you on the podcast as interviewed previously, Episode 134. You and your better half Cassie came on the show to talk about your journey as a FIRE enthusiast Financial Independence Retire Early. We had you back on episode 196. You talked about how to use improv comedy. We’ll talk about your role as a comedian to create a better healthcare system. This episode, this interview, we’re gonna take a little bit of a different angle centered around fatherhood. And again, your new book, I Guess. I’m a Dad Now. And before we get too far into the book and the discussion around fatherhood, which I’m confident is going to be rich, give us a brief overview for those that don’t know who you are in the work that you’ve been doing. What has Cory Jenks been up to over the last several decades? Who is this guy?

Cory Jenks  03:52

Oh my gosh, yeah, I don’t make sense. I’ll preface it with that. I get a lot of introductions. And I’ve literally can, I’ll keep this PG but I am a pharmacist. I live in Tucson, Arizona. So logically, I went to the pharmacy school at the University of South Carolina, go Gamecocks. And I moved back to Tucson in 2011 did a residency here at the VA, worked there for a decade plus. And I’ve done everything in pharmacy – inpatient, outpatient ambulatory care. Kind of kind of love the ambulatory care world 2022, I left the VA and worked for another company now doing ambulatory care, but going part time, and if you go back to the Coast FIRE episode with Cassie and I and my wife kind of explaining why we did that, because part of that is I’m a dad of 3- six and under: 6, 4, 1 basically. So drinking from the firehose, the life there. And beyond that I’ve been doing improv comedy and comedy in general for over a decade, which is not a normal pharmacist combination, but there are a lot of us out there. And so I do that and have been really working on reaching out to healthcare organizations about applying these skills, which are not just being funny, that are listening, empathy, communication You wrote a paper in 2019 kind of talking about pharmacy residencies, deficiencies or how our GPA is not measuring everything we need to be successful and it really dovetailed nicely with the start of what I was trying to do. Because I realized that was never going to be on a Saturday Night Live so I can go, please. Yet. Yeah, maybe I will get really famous. And I will then host who knows, I will not limit myself. So yeah, so now I, you know, I’m basically a convention breaking pharmacist, I get people off medicines when I work. In my practice. I do a lot of diet/nutrition counseling. I applied comedy to health care, which is not a normal thing. And now I’m a two time author. So that’s my other book is over my shoulder here, Permission to Care Building a Healthcare Culture that Thrives in Chaos came out in 2022. So if you’re not a dad, and you work in healthcare, and you’re like, I don’t need a dad book. You can get that book too. So, yeah, I think that I get uncomfortable talking about all the stuff I love. Not all, but the stuff I do because I don’t love the narcissistic view Millennials often have of like, I’m doing all these things! But it’s just, I like doing lots of stuff. And if we get into fatherhood, my dad is always someone who’s couldn’t sit still, my grandfather was always someone who couldn’t sit still. And I think Jenk’s men just like doing stuff. So I do lots of stuff that doesn’t always fit into one category. And I think that with what I’m doing with this fatherhood book, and what I do with my other speaking, it’s, it’s not just healthcare in comedy, it’s it’s being willing, able, and I’ll use the word brave enough, to break the conventions to live that for life too.

Tim Ulbrich  06:27

It’s interesting, Cory, you often say, break the conventions, which I see you very much as that person. I also see you as a very intentional person. That’s the theme, the word that keeps coming to mind for me, whether it’s as a father or husband, in your financial journey. Obviously, we’re going to talk about fatherhood today and your physical fitness. We’ll talk about the tie between that and fatherhood as well today, but I see a thread of intentionality and really encouraging motivating inspire in other people in their own journey. And speaking of intentionality, it takes intention, it takes work to write a book, this being your second one. And you and I both know that when you’re self publishing a book, there’s a big investment of time and money and it ain’t about the money. And so my first question is, why write the book? What were you hoping to accomplish when you sat down to write, I Guess I’m a Dad, Now.

Cory Jenks  07:18

I had too much time, money and sanity, it was like I need to throw…. So part of the part of the inspiration for the book came when I when I cut my hours to help watch the kids a couple days a week, hanging out with them at the park and watching other parents and dads interact, or in my case, like not interact with them. Like being on their phones being distracted. And I’m not going to pretend I’m a perfect dad. And then the audio version of this book, my brother-in-law’s an audio. He’s a musician that has a studio so he helped engineer it. And he said, you know, Cory, you know, this is a parenting book, I would expect to have a lot less like self deprecation. I’m like, No, I don’t want to be someone who thinks they know it all because I know they’re lying. So I’m not going to say I’ve never been on my phone around my kids. But seeing a lot of the checkouted dad’s just sort of started sparked an interest and perspective in me of like, there’s a joke there. And I literally wrote a joke in notes phone of like, you know, first idea for the book was, when you’re at the park, make sure you’re not looking at your phone. Yes, I wrote this as I was on my phone. So if you don’t heed this you have you will have wasted the fact that I ignored my kids for five minutes like writing this down. And then from there, it just sort of snowballed into other observations about fatherhood, like my own, our own struggles as parents because I do this along with Cassie, my wife, and observing other dads good, bad, my own shortcomings, my own wins. And basically then trying to turn everything into like a joke so that it’s more easily digestible. Because I think the other impetus for the book was reading, you know, talking about intentionality, like we read some parenting books, and that can be heavy that can be boring. With the acknowledgement that, you know, if dads don’t do our job, like society kind of collapses. So it’s really important job. And I start the book off with some statistics that show that, but also like, if it’s not fun, funny, dudes aren’t gonna want to read it. So how can I turn this message into something that’s easily digestible, realizing that…I don’t know if you’re a Seinfeld fan, but I have a friend that’s like, we could just talk in Seinfeld quotes for the next hour. Yeah, like we could try to give me like two steps of the Krebs cycle, which we had to learn like seven times, we couldn’t do it. But we could go through Seinfeld quotes because when it’s funny, you’re going to remember it. And so that’s kind of the other goal with this book is using that comedy side to turn it to funny, but also using that pharmacist analytical brain to analyze something and sort of flip it in a way that’s like, okay, yeah, that’s true. It’s funny. He made fun of himself or some other unfortunate dad that I observed, and I will not make that same mistake.

Tim Ulbrich  09:43

Yeah, it’s interesting. You mentioned that self deprecation. I thought the humility was there throughout you know, the acknowledgement. You gave the phone example but many others throughout the book where you’re in it, right, six, four, and one. It’s not like you’re waiting until a far off date in the future when you can look back with the glossy version of what was reality, right? You are in the thick of it. And I think as you’re writing in the thick of it, in the moment, it allows for it to be very real, very authentic. And I think it’s just natural, the farther we get removed from it, I know I feel this way with my oldest who’s about to be 13. Like, those memories become fuzzy right over time. And I love the authenticity. I love the realness of it as you wrote it.

Cory Jenks  10:27

Yeah. One is, as you get further from it, the hardness kind of fades, which I think is our nature designs it. Your youngest is what six?

Tim Ulbrich  10:27

Going to be five soon. 

Cory Jenks  10:33

Yeah, so if you, if you really remember how hard it was with your first three, you’d be like, I’m never gonna do this again. But nature is like, you know, we need more people. So I think it’s the same with anything like you look back into pharmacy school wasn’t that bad or high school wasn’t that uncomfortable? Like, no, it was terrible. It felt terrible at the time. And so the subtitle of this is:  A Humorous Handbook for Newish Dads Who Don’t Want to Suck. So it really is for that thinking about kids up to about age five, which is when I finished writing the initial draft. And so and I say it in the book, like, if you want advice for raising a teen, I couldn’t tell you because I’ve never raised the teen. Tim, you could write that book in a couple of years, but I’ve not been in it. So you know, the good joke is like the next volume will be like how to raise from like six to 11, which is like, from what I hear is like a really golden age of kids, because they’re not quite angry teens, but they’re, like, have enough skills, mental and physical to really make the most of those moments that teens won’t be great. And not that having little kids isn’t great, but like a newborn can’t play catch with you. And the other day, like yesterday, we actually played catch with my oldest kid, like he’s able to catch and throw. Like, I was like, Oh my gosh, I was expecting way too much when he was three. Yeah, but it’s kind of a cool moment. Not that you don’t love them when they’re younger. But like when you if they’re able to do more stuff with you, as a dad, you know, I don’t I don’t grow it, I didn’t birth it. Now I can kind of help shape and shape them, he, my kids. ,

Tim Ulbrich  11:57

You know, I was thinking about especially as we we get ready to celebrate Father’s Day here in a couple of weeks that you know how we show up as a dad. And this can be the good, the bad, the ugly, but how we show up as a dad so often stems from how our dad showed up. And you know, they did the best that they could and obviously how they showed up was largely from how their dad showed up. And you know, based on the dedication, where you give a shout out to your dad, I suspect that he’s had a big influence on you and your journey of fatherhood. So tell us about Papa Jenks.

Cory Jenks  12:29

Mark. Mark, was, I don’t know if he’s, he’s, he’s here. Like we’re doing this live as we record it on LinkedIn. He’s on LinkedIn. He likes to comment on my posts, but he still teaches he’s a PE teacher. He teaches at the University of Arizona now in the College of Ed, but he’s, you know, I think he was someone that really showed by example. He’s from a small upstate New York town. You know a few things about upstate New York. His parents, my grandparents were like, when that generation was called the silent generation. I think they named it after Harry and June, like not that they didn’t love you. But they just dinner was very quiet because we’re eating and that’s in my a lot of feelings talk not a lot of like warmth, I love you love us, but a lot of showing love by you know, all the memories I have with my grandfather – building things, having those memories together. And then my dad, like he loved me, he was always there to support me. And unfortunately for him, like he was a great athlete, played college football. I was not that good. But he still supported me, helped coach me. And I think that the big things I got out of it from him were how to work hard. How and we talked about finances like he would teach, he was a teacher. So in the summer he was off but he would teach swimming lessons, he would coach to earn extra money. And I remember going with him to the place he taught swim lessons because they had a place where I could play and he’s like, alright, well, this is our vacation this summer. Like those little things stuck with me. And he tells tells me about how grandpa would change the oil in their own car instead of taking it he’s like, Well, that’s a dinner instead of paying someone the money to do it. So I think he really showed me the value of hard work and utilizing those skills to support yourself and not being afraid to you know, we say side hustle now. Millennials and Gen Z is all about the side hustle like my dad and grandfather were the original side hustlers. They just didn’t call it that. So, taught me the value of hard work and then the message I write about in the book is he was very supportive in a pragmatic way. Like I would be you know, I’m going to pharmacy school, Dad,  this is healthcare. This isn’t just teaching kids dodgeball. Okay, this is big time stuff. He’s like just show up on time, work hard and be pleasant. It’ll be fine. But it’s healthcare, Dad! And then every step of the way through undergrad pharmacy school, residency, I was like, oh, yeah, you’re right. Humans are humans regardless of their credentials or degree and you can go a long way just living those simple tenets. So a lot more showing than telling, which is great. So set a great example of your kids will do what you do as well because you know, he played racquetball golf, like doing all the same activities as him too. so inspires me to try to make sure that instead of telling my kids stuff, I’m showing them.

Tim Ulbrich  14:55

Cory, when I think of you, you know the words that come to mind if we do word association with Cory, right I think pharmacist, I think FIRE enthusiast, I think comedian, author, speaker, I think fitness guru as well. I know that’s an important part of your life journey. And you brought that into the book and chapter two, you talk about the connection between your passion for fitness and health and why that’s important, as soon to be, although I would, I would argue whether it’s someone who’s expecting or thinking about having kids or, you know, your 10 plus years into it, it’s a priority, and they’re very much is a connection. Tell us more about what that connection is, and why you felt like that was important bring into the book.

Cory Jenks  15:35

There’s sort of the celebration of DadBod, which is sort of like, Oh, I’m, you know, my wife’s pregnant, and I’m gonna, you know, look like her too. You kind of let yourself go. And I don’t think that body shaming is great, I think they’re a little shame might be good. Like, because kids are energetic. They’re, they want to keep going. And I just see, so often, kids with fathers who are out of shape that are just like play with me, play with me that they’re just like, oh, I can’t, I can’t. And if you if you don’t have like, I there are, if you play the comparison game, there’s always gonna be someone who’s way fitter than you and way less fit than you. But if you are able to keep up with your kids have some muscle like, like every night that kids fall asleep in a different room, and I have to carry them to the other room, like my four year old is 40 pounds, and he’s on the other side of this full size bed, like, there’s some functional fitness picking up 40 pounds and lugging it across the hall. So if you really want to be there for your kids, as a dad, I think it’s non-negotiable to be in shape for to be there for them. And also to set the example because I can’t tell you the number of kids I grew up playing league or soccer or whatever, that their parents are very out of shape. And they’re like, you will play sports and the kids like, well, you’re not doing anything, right. Like, you know what your words are hollow with your actions or not. So and setting the example like my dad was a PE teacher, so he was always active, he hit me, he’s, he’s such a, I’ll use the term like adorable nerd about this stuff. So send me articles about like, you know, if you get 10,000 steps a day, you look five extra years, or like what you know, and it’s great. Like, that’s what a great example, the set and then we see that with our kids that for my six year olds birthday, he got a pull up bar for the door. So he looks like climbs and hangs and we play, you know, we’re active. And it doesn’t mean that you have to play sports or be in the sports. But I think that being physically active is non-negotiable. And I think that if you want to help your kids fulfill their greatest potential, which is sort of I got asked this on a podcast the other day, like what’s your like, kind of vision as a dad is to help my kids fulfill their full potential being physically fit, in addition to mentally fit. Is this an important part and financially fit as well. Yeah. Yeah, getting getting getting your gear in shape. And ignoring the siren song of the dad bod is is important to, in my opinion.

Tim Ulbrich  17:43

Yeah, the connection you just made is interesting. And we often talk about helping our kids to be the best version of themselves, which requires a ton of time, attention and understanding who they are. And each one of them is very unique. And I think that becomes a little bit more evident. Like as I think about where my boys are at in age, I’m seeing it more and more with my older three. And it takes time and patience. But what’s underneath that is interesting what you’re saying, right? Someone’s physical health, mental health, we know that as adults that how critical those things are. When those are humming, we are more likely to be bringing the best version of ourselves, right? We feel better, we feel more engaged. We’re better in relationships. I mean, there’s such a stemming effect from that, which is a good segue. I’d like to kind of peek into the author’s brain here. Like for you, physical health, obviously a priority. I know emotional health, spiritual health, financial health other things. What are the routines that you have employed in your day? Or your week, however, you want to frame this that have allowed you to bring the best version of Cory every day? What are those habits?

Cory Jenks  18:45

Yeah, this is this is the part where you’re, you might not want to hear all this because it’s hard for some to hear, but I get up early. Like so with kids, they’re either gonna get up early, or they’re gonna stay up late. So you so adjusting around my kids schedule, and I get up around most days between like four and five o’clock in the morning. And that first 15 minutes is usually some version of like brushing teeth, my eyes half opened and like getting chores done around the house, like prepping the day like getting getting lunches ready, like my wife and I make these like collagen gelatin beverages. So like getting those all teed up so that when she wakes up, we can just hit the button and we’re going. So taking care of my spouse, that’s a big part of it. I tried to sit quietly for like, even just like two to two to five minutes, just to have a few moments of just trying to like breathe a little bit. And then two days a week, I’m doing a 15 minute quick, quick and dirty fitness routine, which if you’re listening or watching this, if you buy the book, I’ll send you my my routine. It’s part of my preorder bonus, but it’s already out so I’m just gonna send it to you if you want it. It’s just a very simple short routine because with three kids I don’t have time to hit the gym a ton, and then two days a week it’s it’s like going for a run or doing some some HIIT like some sort of like, I don’t know what interval interval training or something like that and I have a father in my neighborhood that we go for a run once a week. So helping, you know, helping bring another dad into this fold, you know, he says I hate getting up in the morning. And that’s why I do it. So do that, if I’m able to, you know, a couple days a week, it’ll be some writing in the morning, because I write a newsletter and then trying to promote myself on Twitter or LinkedIn trying to come up with something there. And then a couple days a week, I’m at work. And then the other days, I’m with my kids, and just try and be with them. And then in the evening, it’s winding down, get them to bed, if I’m, if I’m humming real good, I just go out and read a book or strum a guitar or, or do something like that. And if it’s not, then I’ll try to check it up notification, I’m turning 30 minutes into warmholing. So I’m just like you, everybody gets stuck on the computer. So and then I mean, foodwise, if you want that part, too, I mean, from fitness side, I eat a lot of protein, a lot of veggies, not a lot of carbs, and fats, and don’t overthink it. So that’s, that’s the main thing. And then just always checking in from a from a from a relationship side of it, checking in with my wife, making sure she’s taken care of, her needs are taken care of. Because she bears the brunt of our baby at night. So she’s, you know, and on top of all this, I’m Cassie jokes that there’s a Laundry Fairy and a Dinner fairy. Because Dishwasher Fairy because I’m the one that does all that. So fathers are not off the hook there. Started doing a lot of the chores around the house, because she does a lot of the other stuff that I can’t do. And then usually at the end of the day, our joke is we say good morning, and we’re trying to lay down a bed at night because we’re so so busy. So it’s going to probably depending where you’re at in life, if you’re a dad or not, or even if you’re not a dad, I think having some of these routines is good. And I a big part of it for me is simplicity. And I know just spent three minutes rambling about stuff, but you know, there’s people are like you get up you do 15 minutes of journaling, you just seven minutes of breath work, you’d look at the sun with your eyes closed, you look at it without like, Yeah, but then your kid wakes up at 5:15 with a bloody nose and all that’s out the window. So how can you maintain that good day without having all these things that are locked in place.

Tim Ulbrich  21:56

That’s exactly where my mind was going. I’m so glad you said it. Because as I think about my own journey here in Utah, I have found the morning routine is a non negotiable for me. And granted, I’m a morning person, I’m not a four or 4:30 morning person, but I’m a morning person. And I’m grateful for the flexibility to really start the first couple hours of the day. And as my boys would be gotten gotten older, it’s more predictable, right. But it wasn’t always predictable. And there are seasons where it is not predictable. And I think my encouragement to those listening is to find the system and the routine that works for you. That gives you enough structure that really helps move the needle on the things that matter the most but also enough flexibility that, hey, one season looks very different than another and you can be humming. And then a month later, it’s like why aren’t my kid ever sleeping, I’m not getting up at 4am. And I got to shift some of this. I’m a morning person, but I gotta shift this. And I think sometimes if there’s too much rigidity, especially for those with young kids, sleep is variable kids get sick, we know this happens, right? That’s when we feel defeated, all of a sudden the guilt comes in. And that’s not productive, you know, in any way, shape or form. So I’m a big fan of like, hey, find, the system and the routine, but especially for those with young kids, like give yourself some grace and some flexibility that things are gonna change. It’s gonna happen.

Cory Jenks  23:13

Yeah, I liked the things you said there, the seasons. I think that’s something that Cassie and I talk a lot about us that, season X where we I mean, we had a newborn, a five year old, a three year old and it’s just chaos. What we found works is what is the minimum we both need, like we talked about, you know, you and I have talked about, like filling your bucket every time like, what’s the minimum you need, and Cassie knows that I need like 15 minutes to lift weights and like a 30 minute walk. And I’m like in a much better like she’ll say you need to go for your walk or you need to go for your run. And I know that if I get that she knows if I get that like I’m good to go for the day I like I just need physical movement. I mean I’m a pharmacist, I work at a job where I sit like hunched over all day, so I need some of that movement. But for everyone’s going to be different. And like you say that the rigidity and there’s you don’t have to feel guilty about taking care of yourself as a parent. Your kids are pretty resilient. Like that doesn’t mean you ignore them for eight hours while you watch Netflix. But it does mean that if you need to like they watch a show for 30 minutes while you walk or do you just even if it’s clean the dishes and or whatever in your house. It clears your mind so much so and then also to stay off Instagram because every father Instagram account that I was trying to use to like promote my book just makes you feel like the worst dad ever. So just ignore those and you’ll be good to go.

Tim Ulbrich  24:31

Yeah, one of the greatest challenges great, I think a parenthood is being present, truly present in the moment and the experience that’s in front of you, you know, not cut up in analyzing the past worrying about what may or may not come in the future. Easier said than done, off course and we’re not going to get this perfect. But you talk about this in the book in chapter six. All it takes is being president let me read the first couple paragraphs and then I’ve got a question for you. You say, “A lot of newish dads wonder if they will be ‘enough’ for their kids. Will they make enough money to support their family? Will they provide enough emotional support? Will they be enough for their kids to love them, or at least tolerate them? To make this happen, dads can sometimes go overboard working, trying to pry the feelings out of their kids and smothering their kids with so much love that the kids will actually push away. I shared those feelings of needing to be enough. While more money is nice, it’s important to be a loving and emotional pillar. There’s just one trick to success as a father, be present.” Be present. Now, this if you had to say, Hey, Tim, what’s probably one of the greatest challenges you’ve had, as a father, I would say it’s really honing in on this. And again, there’s permission and grace that needs to come in here as well. What, for you, has been the secret or has allowed you to be as present as possible as a father? You just talked about in the book how important it is.

Cory Jenks  25:52

Well, I don’t know if it’s a secret so much as a lot of self reflection and being called out for not being present. I think having having a having if you’re there, if you’re raising them with you, with your spouse, with your wife, and she’s like, Hey, you’re on your phone, that like that’s a dagger to be like, Okay, I’m not there. But like going through the different pillars of like, what would take you out of the moment with your kids. So there’s, there’s work and so I, the longer I’ve worked, the better I’ve been at leaving work home when I come home. That being said, like in a world of entrepreneurship, like the work typically, I mean, literally never ends. So there’s always like a notification, you could check, there’s always something you can do there, so trying to block time to be like, okay, when they’re at school, like for this hour, I’m working on it, and then like letting it go. So just letting stuff wait. And it could wait. I do comedy, there’s never a comedic emergency. So like, there’s no, there’s no need to get to that. I think that the other pillar’s of presence. So like trying to earn a ton of money for your kids, like my kids. It’s like the trope of like, they’ll play with a box or like a stick in dirt, or a balloon. And this is something that’s probably one of the biggest conflicts with the grandparents, it’s like you stop getting them stuff, like they’re so happy with the balloon like imagine a world where you could be entertained with a balloon for an hour, we would all be so much happier if we didn’t have to feel like we’ve spent money on stuff. So if I’m not taking myself literally, physically away trying to earn money to buy stuff I don’t need that I’m going to be more present. And fortunately, again, I’m married to someone who’s not a huge like checking phone person. So I kind of take cues from Cassie and we have a spot where we charge it in our laundry room. And we’re pretty good about just ignoring that and just not trying to kind of piggybacking off that, like there’s a chapter in the book, like don’t try to like make memories. Like you let the memories happen. So if you’re not in this is a sort of pet peeve of mine, like we don’t try to document everything with like every, we don’t do a picture of video of like every little cute thing, because you literally can’t. Because if you’ve tried to do that, you’re going to take yourself out of the moment of taking a picture, is it good enough, we’ll take another picture. Well, now the kids want to look at the picture. And then if you’re someone who posts stuff publicly, then you’re posting it, then you’re checking on the comments of those things. And so we don’t, we don’t put anything with our kids on the internet, short of like the backs of my kids heads, which just hit the back of my baby’s head spoiler alert, you can see the back of my baby’s head at the end of the book, if you make it through. I think that’s been a big part of it is just living within our house instead of worrying about what other strangers on the internet or, you know, acquaintances might think of what we might post. So we, we we like we’d go on vacation, we have a policy, like we take one picture at the beginning, we put the phones away, and then we just play, we’re gonna like we accept that we’re gonna miss stuff. But we were telling our kids last night about the good old days when you had 25 count disposable cameras and that’s all you got. So trying trying to live a little bit less fast, I guess.

Tim Ulbrich  28:40

And what I heard throughout all that Cory was: we. You know, we we, we, right? There’s tactical strategy you talked about where you put your phone and how you handle vacation, the posts and all that stuff. But it’s we. It’s, hey, we’re on the same page with this and through the “we.” There’s accountability, you know, in that process as well. So great, great insights to share there. I want to ask you about play. I have found for me, when I am truly involved in play with my boys, like those are the moments that really are rich memories. But those are the moments where I am all in present. I’m talking about like rollerblade hockey on the driveway, like epic games of soccer in the basement. You know, freeze tag. Not we’re like I’m kind of having like a yeah, I’ll play, or I’m watching, but like I’m actually in on the play. And I’m curious to hear for you, like is that a similar experience? or what have you found in terms of how important play is when it comes to engaging and be involved present as father.

Cory Jenks  29:39

I’m glad you said that because it was a great reminder for me that it’s probably one of the most if not most important ways to be present. I can’t you know, yes, we all have presence. I’d even say play. My goodness. Read my own book. Yeah, I think and this is just to use that improv comedy side of my brain. Improv is adult play and kids we play we live in the moment. We grow up, we have responsibilities, we have jobs. So like when I’m doing an improv scene, like you have to totally be in that moment, it’s you talked about the like moments of flow and creativity and being all present, like improv forces you to do that and playing with your kids. If you’re doing it right, if you’re not trying to record everything to put on YouTube, if you’re not trying to document every little thing, you’re just playing, those are the moments that you’re going to be totally in it with your kids, you’re having fun, you’re and the time like slip like it’s a combination of it, like slows down and it speeds up because you’re like, oh my gosh, that was an hour of playing. But it was so much fun. And for kids development, I this is you know, not an expert writing a book. But it’s everything that I’ve been reading and I just read a great book called The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt talking about all the issues that screens potentially could be having on our kids. Like play builds resilience, it builds it builds neuroplasticity. So for all you pharmacy leaders out there who want to have another PowerPoint on resiliency, just like let your staff go out and play tag or something. Like you’re literally better off than trying to like cram down more information. That’s a little side pet peeve of mine, but yeah, the place where they’re gonna like they’re gonna learn like right and wrong, what boundaries to push. And yeah, for us, it’s a lot of a lot of wrestling to the point of you talking about being physically fit, like, like, kids beat me up. There’s strong. But yeah, we were just they just learned the great game of Three Flies Up the other day. So and it’s just it’s it’s so much fun with like, let’s play Three Fies Up. Let’s play this. And you’re just playing. And and that is I think the the simplicity, the simplicity of that wins out almost over every complicated vacation, app, toy, tool, tech thing you want to do. And yeah, yeah, you’re right. I won’t ramble anymore on that, because you actually made the point better than I have in the last two minutes.

Tim Ulbrich  31:40

No, it’s great. And it really is a good reminder and challenge for me, I wish I get there more often, when I really let myself into those moments like, again, were really rich memories. But as you alluded to the time really does kind of fly and pass away. And I think it’s important that they see Dad, in a very different environment, you know, I can get into a very structured, everything so serious, we got things to do, places to go, right life’s busy, and like to really have a space where we can play and engage without that type of structure. I think it’s so rich, to really see me in a different light right than they probably do. And other other moments and other seasons. I want to ask you about community. You mentioned this a little bit when you’re talking about a neighbor. I sense that there’s maybe some community there and the influence there. But I have found for me, you know, I’ve got a core group of men that are absolutely critical. When I think about having a safe place, a truly safe place where there is vulnerability that is allowed. There’s accountability, that is key to that group. And I’m curious for you, whether it’s a group, a guy, some friends, like as a father, as a husband, when you think about bringing your best self, like, what does the role of community play for you?

Cory Jenks  32:56

Oh, it’s huge. I think you got to have your tribe and I think we’ve evolved as tribal creatures and we’ve now found these like weird online tribes that don’t actually mean anything and support us in fact, actually probably hurt our mental health. But for me, I have there’s four or five other families in our neighborhood around the same age, kids around the same age and we joke because all the the wives and moms are older than the dads so they’re the Cougar Club. We call ourselves the Manthers. I mean, it’s silly. Like you’re talking about play, like it’s ridiculous. So we’ll go on, like yesterday I went I went on a run with one of the guys. Like everyone has their own little like strength like there’s one that’s like a phenomenal engineer that helped me design and build my chicken coop. There’s one that I go run with. There’s the one that’s like the more like feelings guy, so when I need to talk about something like that, we go for a walk and it’s it’s really great there. And then I have friends that are across the country that it’s just a text. I text my buddy Kendrick more than I text my wife so we go back and forth with the wins the losses and just there to share and listen. And that’s one thing that and even like yesterday at this Memorial Day party we were at as we record this, like was talking to the dads and the moms too like sharing our struggles with our own families and issues and just being having just, sometimes just talking about it you feel so much better. It doesn’t solve the problem but it helps to feel like you’re not alone. And I you know as selfishly, like this book I think for a lot of dads who have read it and I’ve talked to, they had these like relief moments of like I’m not feeling who feels like this. I’m not alone in this. And guys are not known for our open communication. So if you can find a real life tribe, if it’s if it’s an online community, but it’s really supportive and productive. That’s great too. And then sometimes reading a book that makes you laugh and realize okay, I’m not the only idiot dad that does dumb sometimes like okay, if Cory did that, then you don’t feel so bad if you made that mistake, too. So and then having your group of people that are have skills you don’t have mostly because I’m not handy. So I talked about the importance of that, too.

Tim Ulbrich  35:02

My experience has been, you know, in the absence of community, or present in isolation, I think the challenges that we inevitably will face can start to bleed with our identity. And we get those two things confused. And I think really having a group of people around us, you know, you mentioned your book, right? The people that read that and say, hey, wow, like, I’m not alone, I have these feelings, it’s okay to have these feelings. I don’t have to be defined by these feelings like, these are to be expected on some level. And there’s other people that are going through this journey. And again, it’s going to have highs, it’s gonna have lows, that is a roller coaster. That’s the reality of fatherhood. And so I think whatever that community looks like neighbors, you know, people across the country, friends, whatever be – so important, you know, and for me, at least, as I think about my own journey of fatherhood. I do want to talk a little bit about finances as a finance platform afterall. You talked about finance in the book as well, chapter 15, titled Money, Money, Money. And I think you scratch the surface on some important topics, you know, life insurance, estate planning and building a strong financial foundation. Obviously, you didn’t, you didn’t set out to write a personal finance book, so I wouldn’t have expected you to go a lot deeper. But I want to go a little bit deeper with you. As I know, this is an important part of your financial plan and journey. And as we’ve already established, I think there is a connection, when we think about this to fatherhood as well. We’re not going to re live your entire financial journey. We talked about a lot of that on episode 134, with you and Cassie talking about your FIRE pathway. But I do want to start there FIRE: Financial Independence, Retire Early. I know that’s been a key pathway for you and Cassie, as you think about your own financial journey and success, why has the FIRE ourney been important, continue to be important for the two of you?

Cory Jenks  36:45

Well, I will say I will disclose that we are not at the FIRE level. So it is a journey. But I think what we found in 2017, when we kind of found this idea of FIRE was it forced us to re examine our finances. It forced us to look at how we were spending money and you you mentioned the word intentionality at the beginning of the recording, that we realized a lot of our money was going places we weren’t really being intentional with and because we were blessed with big shovels. She’s a nurse practitioner, I was working full time as a pharmacist, you paper over a lot of your mistakes. And you the 401k is growing pretty good things are looking good. You’re living a happy life or taking vacations. And then realizing that there’s there’s this point like 1000s of dollars a month that we can be reallocating to more efficient and effective ways of establishing our future in a more secure way, then you become intentional with that. And while we haven’t hit full FIRE, we talked about this idea of Coast FIRE where we stayed really despite our mistakes. Because we are we are blessed to have jobs that have the big larger incomes, compared to the average American, we hit a place with the idea of Coast FIRE, you save a lot in retirement and get to a place where at that point like time and competition will get you get you to the finish line. And so we’ve more or less hit that place. It doesn’t mean we’ve totally stopped saving, but it’ll allocates more funds for inevitable kid expenses. It allowed me to cut part time. Gives me a little breathing room when I invest in a another self published book. Because, by the way, if you want to write a book get really famous first so they give you a big advance. If you have a huge audience to start, it really helps. Just a little insider tip there. But it’s been an important part of us to be intentional with how we spend money and like, it’s a mindset, like we just bought a new, like a new vehicle to us. It’s an eight year old vehicle. But we spent two years figuring out what we wanted. Like it was a two year process. Our family was so tired of us talking about it. But when you think about I could spend $70,000 on a new vehicle or I could spend $25,000 on a vehicle like what’s the delta of that money? What could it be used for? What’s the opportunity cost? What’s the time I’m going to spend and I we talk a lot about like the life energy to buy something, your money or your life concept. And so it really affects us when we decide do we really need to buy that thing for the kids, we really need to buy that other thing, or with going out with three little kids to a restaurant really bring us much joy? No. Save the money and cook at home and, you know, watch a Netflix movie or something instead.

Tim Ulbrich  39:04

Yeah, and I think it’s a Coast FI is an interesting pathway. You know, not everyone obviously is able to do it, everyone comes out with a different income level, different debt position, other goals that they’re working on. But when I think about the journey that you and Cassie are on now that you’ve got six, four, and one, you know, essentially, as you mentioned, you’re not not saving anymore, but you’ve largely checked that box because time value money is going to do its thing, right? And so you’re entering into the ages were experiences and time to get those experiences is going to be more readily available, right? I mean, there’s only so much you can do with a one year old, obviously. But as they get older, like the opportunity to travel, the flexibility that you guys have in your schedule to do whatever it means for you guys to be living your rich life that’s going to become more available and to have the opportunity to invest in those experiences to a greater degree I think is exciting. And you know, perhaps a reason for aggressive saving early is great. I am curious. I know one of the most common questions I get, Cory, when people are thinking about really FIRE any part of the financial plan, is how to me and my spouse get on the same page. You know, one person may be an aggressive saver one is not or there’s different philosophies, different mindsets, different ways that they grew up with money. So for you and Cassie, as you’ve been on this journey, I sense you’re very much on the same page. But what allowed you the two of you? Is that where you started? Or was this a process that you guys developed over time.v

Cory Jenks  40:31

I was definitely much more like the saver mindset, not that she was like a frivolous spender. But I think what we did was a lot of shared, like we did podcasts and book clubs. I would literally listened to an episode of YFP. And be like, hey, what do you think of this idea of an HSA account? And you know, the various financial podcasts, but I’m gonna plug you guys because you’re the best, and your pharmacists. If you Google other resources, you can find them. But YFP is  a great place to start, so you listen to a podcast. And  we do book clubs together, like we would read a book or because she’s kids, I read a book, take notes and go through the highlights with her. And it just it provokes questions. It provokes discussions. And it’s never a, you’ve spent this, I can’t believe that you didn’t spend this, I can’t believe it. I don’t know, I’m just I’m very blessed to be married to someone who’s like we’re both when it comes to finances pretty reasonable people who want to meet in the middle and have not had a lot of, I can’t remember a money fight honestly, we’ve ever had. Because maybe the only one being like Cory, we can spend more like okay, fine, save less. And that was that was the hardest thing was to take the break off the savings. But I think like turning it into an activity versus a chore. If it means you have a nice dinner and talk about it, if it means you’re on a walk together. And you each have a Bluetooth pod, like your air pod, and you’re listening to Tim and Tim and talk about something. You pause it and say that was good, or I don’t understand that. That’s where we started. And it really hasn’t been a huge conflict for us.

Tim Ulbrich  42:04

Yeah, and I love the concept of the book club and just getting thoughts moving, right, conversation starters, we did an episode not too long ago, around 25 Financial discussions that couples should have, and it really wasn’t about like, Hey, you should do X, Y, and Z. It was about start talking about, you know, these areas. And there’s, of course more questions in that and figure out for the two of you what what does it mean to be living that rich life? What does it mean to have that balance between today and tomorrow? And, you know, the back of the back of your book, you referenced several books, one of which, you know, I know has been transformational on my journey Die with Zero by Bill Perkins. But even reading books that have different philosophies, different perspectives, just to get things moving. Conversation wise and figure out, hey, for the two of you, what does success look like? And I often share that we get in the weeds with the X’s and O’s. All of those are important. But we often have to start at a higher level, which is what what is the vision? What does success look like for the two of us? What do we want this to look like for our family? And then from there, the X’s and O’s have to support that vision?

Cory Jenks  43:07

Yeah, I think I skipped over the strategic vision and goal setting and skipped right to the tactical stuff that we would do. But yeah, I think yeah, you nailed it. Having the, I think I think what helped us get on the same page was, what do we want our life to look like? What are the what’s the one year goal, five year goal, 10 year goal? What’s retirement goal look like and then working backwards from there, you can decide what that how that fits into your day to day. And I think having that ultimate vision of how we want our life to be is important. And for both of us, the biggest thing we care about is options. We want to have options to manage, to own as much of our own time. And we were not 100% there yet, but it’s been a very useful journey in helping us get to where we, you know, it’s we’re recording this on a Tuesday morning and she’s home. She’s not working today, and I’m not working today. And our kids are, you know, in a perfect world, they’d be home with us and we you know, making memories but they’re exploring. We get a little bit of adult freedom and don’t feel guilty about that when you do need it, by the way.

Tim Ulbrich  44:05

Yeah, options and flexibility. When I poll a group of pharmacists, I serve a group of pharmacists and say, hey, what, what’s most important to you, right? That those are the two things I hear over and over and over again. And sometimes we get lost in the weeds of hey, do we need 2 million or two and a half or three or three and a half million and those are good conversations, but really, it’s often the emotion behind that. What are we trying to achieve? What does that vision look like? Cory, this has been great. So I Guess I’m a Dad Now:  A Humorous Handbook for Newish Dads Who Don’t Want to Suck. If I can make one gentle amendment to your subtitle, I appreciate the focus for new-ish but I found this as a father of four soon to be teenager. I don’t consider myself a new or new-ish dad. But I found this to be incredibly insightful and helpful. So I would say for dads everywhere at any stage, adult children, soon-to-be, expecting, planning kids, could make a great Father’s Day gift. So where’s the best place that people can go to get a copy of the book and follow your work? 

Cory Jenks  45:03

It’s on Amazon. So you could look you could just look the title up there on Amazon. If you go to my website Coryjenks.com C-O-R-Y-J-E-N-K-S.com. My parents were cheap, didn’t but the “E” in Cory, although I should probably buy that domain and just send people to my website. You can, you can get some information on like, I still have my pre order stuff up so you can see what if you if you order the book, just email me I’ll send you all the pre order stuff. We’re dads we’re busy. We didn’t get we didn’t get there in time. It’s okay. You can kind of see the other stuff I’m up to and you can connect all my different socials from from my website.

Tim Ulbrich  45:35

Awesome, Cory thanks so much for doing the interview. Appreciate it.

Cory Jenks  45:38

Anytime this is you know, you talked about playing time flying by I can’t believe it’s almost been 50 minutes, Tim. It always happens. So that’s a sign of a great a great time. So thanks again and anytime you want to chat, happy to. Thanks.

Tim Ulbrich  45:50

Thank you so much. Take care. 

Tim Ulbrich  45:53

As we conclude this week’s podcast an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacists podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

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