YFP REI 126: Career Flexibility through Real Estate Investing with Kamren Gallon, PharmD

Kamren Gallon, PharmD shares how he is able to successfully flip and sell houses, the importance of mentors, and how he balances his real estate investments with his pharmacy career.

Episode Summary

Kamren Gallon, PharmD returns to the show and shares his journey from flipping six to eight houses a year to 20-25 houses a year, emphasizing the importance of having a mentor. He also discusses the benefits of owner financing and how he balances his real estate investments with a full-time pharmacy career.

About Today’s Guest

Kamren Gallon is a 3rd generation entrepreneur.  He was introduced to real estate at a very early age.  His father was a landlord in North Philadelphia and one day his life was tragically taken by a tenant.  After this life changing event, Kamren was very eager to go into the medical field.  After graduating pharmacy school from Hampton University in 2013, he spent the first few years of his career working overnight.  It wasn’t until 2017 after being robbed in the pharmacy that he realized one source of income was not enough.  Shortly after that incident, Kamren put his childhood fears behind him and started to invest in real estate. 

Kamren has successfully flipped and sold over 100 homes along with owning a 7 figure rental portfolio while working full time as a pharmacist and being a single father.  He is currently on a mission to inspire and teach other busy professionals how to achieve the same level of success so they can also reach financial freedom through real estate investing.

Key Points from the Episode

• Webinar Announcement and Guest Introduction 3:43
• Kam Gallon’s Real Estate Journey 7:32
• Scaling Up and Mentorship 17:38
• Investing Strategies and Financial Goals 32:36
• Day-to-Day Operations and Outsourcing 37:57
• Final Advice and Resources 42:17
• Conclusion and Contact Information 47:20

Episode Highlights

“I didn’t really realize the value of mentorship, and I think that’s how a lot of people are. It took me so long to realize I needed a mentor, and I’m a pharmacist. We’ve been trained our whole career. We had mentors in school that were called preceptors. But once you get into the real estate space, you just think you may know it all, or you carry your doctorate degree in the real estate space, which I did. And that’s the wrong thing to do. That’s the wrong mentality. This is a new area for us, we still need preceptors or mentors in this space as well.” – Kamren Gallon [20:36]

“I want you to be able to take your skills from the pharmacy world, your management skills, and just build systems. Build systems. Just because you’re making more money in real estate does not directly mean you have to spend more time in real estate.” – Kamren Gallon [25:26]

“[Y]ou have to stay in your lane. Just because someone may be doing Airbnb short term rentals, just try to just get good at one or two things.” – Kamren Gallon [29:10]

“Flipping houses is very active. It’s not easy, and you have to also pay a lot of attention to the news and what’s going on in the media as well. “ – Kamren Gallon [38:11]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP Real Estate Investing Webinar: Syndication 101 on October 7 at 9pm/E
• Aliquot Group
• Doctor Flipper 
• Kamren Gallon on Instagram
• The 10x Rule by Grant Cardone
• Subscribe to the YFP Newsletter
• YFP Disclaimer
• YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook Group
• Nate Hedrick on Instagram
• David Bright on Instagram
• YFP Real Estate Investing Website
• David Bright on LinkedIn
• Nate Hedrick on LinkedIn

Episode Transcript

Nate Hedrick  00:00

Nate, welcome to the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast. I’m Nate Hedrick.

David Bright  00:09

And I’m David Bright. We’re both pharmacists and real estate investors that believe that real estate investing does not have to distract from a meaningful career in pharmacy.

Nate Hedrick  00:18

Each episode, we share stories that educate and inspire pharmacists to leverage real estate investing as a part of your financial plan. Hey, David, how’s it going?

David Bright  00:29

Hey, good. Thanks. How you doing, man?

Nate Hedrick  00:31

Good. We’re back in school, back in sports for the kids, it feels like we’re back in the groove of the school year. 

David Bright  00:38

And it’s a fun groove to be in, right? Like our girls were in they both had games this last week, and so in addition to just being outside and having fun, like, it’s so good to see them just enjoying that teamwork and camaraderie and friendship that comes with with team sports.

Nate Hedrick  00:53

And I know you and I talked when the girls first started back up at school this year, of saying, like, Man, I don’t even care if they have a bad day in math or a bad day in reading, like, I want them to have a friend at recess, like a friend at the lunchroom, like that. That, yes, that is more important, right, for for their future than anything else.

David Bright  01:08

Yeah, because that that just carries through, whether that’s into later school or into career, like knowing how to work with others, and that that teamwork is just so important. Even in in pharmacy and healthcare, whether it’s real estate investing, teamwork is just critical.

Nate Hedrick  01:22

Yeah, I think that translates, like you said to all walks of life. And you know, over the years, we’ve talked a lot about working with other investors as partners, as a way to reduce risk, right? It’s using that collective expertise to basically take on projects that you couldn’t take on yourself, bigger projects than you could possibly take on yourself. 

David Bright  01:41

Nate, I know you and I have worked on several different projects together, starting off in the single family space, but more recently and in larger projects in the syndication realm, and so that that has worked well for us to either join with each other and share our expertise or to work with others and have a bigger team for that expertise and reduce the risk and allow us to take on projects that we wouldn’t have been able to do alone.

Nate Hedrick  02:04

Yeah, and you know, the more we talk about it, the more we realize that that idea of like a partnership is just a much more realistic and achievable way for a lot of pharmacists to kind of get started in real estate investing or to continue their real estate investing journey. And so before we get into today’s episode and talk all about the great guests that we had. Wanted to drop a quick announcement for you guys. We wanted to find a way to teach people more, have people learn more about this strategy of syndications and investing in larger deals. So we’ve got sort of two ways that you guys can jump into that. The first is an upcoming webinar that we’re going to be hosting. It’s October 7, at 9pm Eastern. We’re going to go through Syndication 101, how to join forces with other pharmacists and other like minded individuals and and really, just what does this look like, and how do I do it right, taking it beyond what we’ve covered in the podcast in the past into how do you can actually jump into this. And then the second big thing that we’re announcing is that you can follow David and I specifically and our journey into doing this through our new website, aliquotgroup.com. So David and I are have been partnering up on a couple of deals. We decided to kind of share that with everybody here as we’ve been going through. And aliquotgroup.com is the way you can you can learn more about that and follow our journey in terms of what deals we’re building on, what deals we’re investing in, and how it’s going.

David Bright  03:24

That Aliquot term, the portion of the larger hole, I just think that that talks through that team aspect. And so again, that can be great for those just getting started. That can be great for those that have some real estate experience but want to diversify out of what they’re doing into other projects. So whatever your your goals are, if you think that this may be a fit for helping to achieve those goals, we’ve got that webinar coming up: yourfinancialpharmacist.com/syndication, to register and for more details. 

Nate Hedrick  03:54

We’ll make sure I put that in the show notes as well. But yeah, good reminder. yourfinancialpharmacist.com/syndication for that webinar. So all right, excited announcements aside, we want to move to today’s episode we we really are excited about by the episode we have here. We got an outreach from Kam Gallon, who was way back on episode 13, and he reached back out to us and said, Hey guys, I’ve been doing a lot of stuff in real estate. I’d love to share it with your audience and kind of give you an update. And so we’re really excited to kind of keep that same, you know, idea of, how do we build on things for the future with Kam, by bringing him back on the show and then learning what he’s been up to. 

David Bright  04:29

Yeah, and he talks a lot about teamwork as well, so growing with a mentor and collaborating there, working on deals together, handing things off to each other, and really just an encouraging story about financial freedom. So not so that he could quit his job. He talks about how he still loves his pharmacy career, but so that he can have his dream pharmacy job and do that on his own terms.

Nate Hedrick  04:51

Yeah, a retail pharmacist, through and through, but somebody that now has flexibility in his career because of his real estate. And so I just think his story is a really good one to follow. And again, I’m really excited we had him back on the show. 

David Bright  05:01

So speaking of working with others, make sure you you focus in on how Kam talks about working with that mentor, of learning from others, seeking guidance, seeking collaboration, just a great way to continue to grow skills and expedite a real estate journey.

 

Nate Hedrick  05:04

Yeah, I love it. It’s really good stuff. So hope you guys enjoyed the episode as much as we did, and with that, we’ll take you to it. Hey, Kameron, welcome back to the show.

Kamren Gallon  05:27

Thank you for having me. 

Nate Hedrick  05:29

Yeah, man, we last had you back on episode 13, more than three years ago, way back at the beginning and at the time, you were a community pharmacist practicing full time, you know, just kind of getting rolling in real estate. You had a lot under your belt, but again, pretty, pretty new in the real estate world. And I guess give us, like, the two minute version of, you know, your pharmacy journey from then until now and then we can, we can dive into the real estate in a second. 

Kamren Gallon  05:56

Absolutely. Yeah. Like I said, thanks for having me on again. When I first came on, I was a few years into my real estate journey. I had just started from transitioning into the flipping houses, but I’ve always been full time since the last time, and even now, I’ve switched companies a few times, and the only reason I switched companies was because I needed to find a schedule that aligned with my pharmacy path. You know, I didn’t want to. My mentor told me, Don’t let work get in the way of making money. And it just stuck with me. I was like, what does that mean? And then he broke it down. He said, Hey, you are making good money in real estate, but don’t let your job inconvenience you. So I finally landed a job where I could coexist in both worlds and accelerate. But I’ve been a pharmacist since 2013 is when I got licensed. So it’s been a while now, and I’ve always worked retail. I never worked at any other industry, and, you know, I love it. Like I said, I’m pharmacy until pharmacy doesn’t want me anymore. 

Nate Hedrick  07:08

I love that. I think it’s going to be cool as we go through some stuff. I think again, David and I are big about preaching, not you don’t have to leave pharmacy to have success in real estate, like we talk about all the time. And as we go through today, I think you know, just talking with you before we hit record, I think people realize, like, you can still be a full time pharmacist, dive deep into your career and then still have wild success in real estate as well. So just want to highlight that up front. I appreciate you. You joining us and sharing it, because it’s going to be great. 

Kamren Gallon  07:36

Absolutely.

David Bright  07:38

You were flipping, you said at that point, six to eight houses a year. I know you’ve grown since then. So walk us through these last few years too, in that ramp up of real estate work that you’re doing, even while maintaining a full time pharmacy job.

Kamren Gallon  07:53

Right, so when I first came on, I was doing about six to eight flips a year, which, which is good. So we, you know, could probably knock out one, maybe two at a time. And then over time, you know, as you get more capital and you get more experience and you get better crews, you just start stress testing your crews. So then my crew grew from doing one to now two houses. Then we say we could do three houses, and all of a sudden, now we’re doing maybe like three to five rehabs at a time. So the last, I would say 2-3, 2 and a half years, I will say we’ve been doing about 20 to 25 houses a year. Every now and again we will do a build. So we may do one build a year. So this year alone, as of 2024 we’ve closed on 12. We will probably finish around maybe 18 this year. You know, if we’re lucky, we may hit the 20 mark. But I usually stop counting what we’re going to do in one calendar year after September, because after that, we still have to renovate some stuff and sell it, you know. So I’ll be buying all throughout the year, but throughout the year, we’ll probably close this year around 18. But I really made a bulk of my money, I’m gonna be honest with you, during a pandemic. But also lost a lot of money once the interest rates hiked on us out of nowhere. So I do want to be very transparent about that. So I got started flipping, and that’s when I, you know, it was almost like flipping on training wheels, because you could flip something, and you felt like you were a genius. So I was, I was, you know, it’s good that I got in during that time, because it gave me the confidence I needed. But trying to flip houses now, I’m not going to be I’m not going to lie. It is very difficult if you do not know what you’re doing, because this is, you know, is not the market for beginners, especially if you’re trying to scale, you really kind of want to know what you’re doing. You kind of want to work with experts, and you want to, like, put out a product, but not over-renovate the house, but you still want to make it affordable and attractive. 

Nate Hedrick  10:08

I appreciate your realism. A ton on that, because I think two things you said that are spot on accurate is one that during like the pandemic, it was like real estate with training wheels, right? You could buy a house, goof it up for six months and still somehow make money, because everything was just shooting up and up and up. And I think there’s a ton of people out there that pretended like they knew everything about real estate and didn’t actually know anything. They just were riding this wave, right? So I commend you tremendously for, one, recognizing that, and two, like you just said, it’s not easy right now. Interest rates are high, the market is high, like you have to really know what you’re doing to still keep making money in that and so again, like that, that was gonna be one of our questions is, like, Isn’t it hard right now to be a flipper? Like, isn’t that terrifying? I mean, how are you guys still finding deals that work? And what does that look like for you guys today?

Kamren Gallon  10:53

Yeah, so this, this market, is tough, but the good thing is, just like you just stated, you know, it’s tough, so it’s not a lot of competition, which is good, you know. So it’s not a lot of inventory, as we know, on a market. And also, during that time, during a pandemic, because the interest rates were so low, a lot of people are selling houses. So most of the houses I’m competing against right now are other flippers in the area. I’m not really competing against people trying to move out at our homes, which which is nice. So also in the area I’m in, I live in the area where there’s a heavy military town. So these people, they are usually buying off a VA loan, and they’re just looking at their monthly payments. They can really care less about the interest rates. So I’m very lucky to, you know, to be in an area like that. Also, let’s just say the median home price in the whole United States may be $350-$400,000 the houses I’m flipping max are about 225 ARV, so I’m staying way below the median home price. And because we do some build some build outs, I use the same crews that do my new construction stuff to do my renovations. So I bring a very luxury looking product to the affordable housing market. That’s really my niche in the market, and none of my other competitors are doing it. They’re usually around $350 -$400,000 you know, I’m in Virginia, so a lot of people like to have the houses on the beaches and everything, which is nice. But that’s not my lane. Like I said, I’m around that $225, and they fly like they fly, they fly. You know, now I’m not gonna sit here and say it’s easy, because sometimes, because I am in that price point, I do have a lot of FHA buyers. So sometimes, if I flip a house too quick, let’s just say a two week or a 30 day rehab, I still have to abide by certain guidelines, where I’m not able to sell it to certain buyers because of guidelines.

David Bright  13:07

yeah, that Nate and I talk often about how multiple exit strategies at the end of a project can be really, really helpful, and can help a detail oriented, risk averse pharmacist sleep at night, right? So when you are buying a house under market value, you’re doing rehab work to it, and you’re selling it in the low 200 range, there’s some there’s some profit in there. And a lot of folks also like the strategy of refinancing there, keeping that property as a rental. And I’m imagining that at that price point, those properties pencil out as rentals as well. Is that true?

Kamren Gallon  13:44

You hit it right on you hit it right on the money, Dave. That, that is exactly the best way to flip in this type of market. And if you’re scared, you have to have multiple exit strategies. Flipping in the higher price points, you know, is difficult because they don’t pencil out as rentals. If you run into 1% or 2% formula, whatever you may need to, you know, feel comfortable. But at that price point, you know, I could flip something that still cash flow about $400 or $500 a door, versus if you flip it in a higher price point, you may be around that $200-$250 per door, you know. So this is you’re exactly right. So I don’t ever feel the stress of, hey, it’s six months. My loan is due. And the nice thing is, about where I’m at now, in my business, is my lender. He’s also my mentor. He flips about 50 houses a year, so he understands the market, you know? So he sometimes, I’ll gage his stuff, and I’ll see him price dropping and doing certain things. And his stuff is either dropping it off the market and relisting it, and I’ll do exactly what he does. And we also do a lot of, you know, some other. Stuff seller contest, concessions and stuff agent bonuses. It’s a lot of tricks up the sleeve that you’ll learn over the years that I’ve been doing, like, I’ll list the house specifically on Thursdays and call for highest and best Sunday, you know. So we, we’ve been doing a lot of and this just comes with time. Like, the last time I was on a podcast, I couldn’t speak to these things because I, I didn’t, I was just getting into the groove. I didn’t lose, I didn’t lose enough money, to be honest with you at that point. Like I’ve made a lot, but I’ve also lost a lot, and, you know, so now we’re kind of getting in the groove. We’ve been stress testing a lot of things. You know, even back then some some contractors may cut corners, not pull permits, and then you get caught at the closing table, like, Hey, how did this house turn from a three bedroom, two bath when it started as a three, one? Where’s the permits? To say you added a bathroom, you know? And you’re signing the closing documents and you’re wondering why they’ve dealt it and fun. I’ve been in that situation as well, you know. So a lot, you know. So that’s why I said, in this market, you can’t cut corners. Buyers are picky. It is competitive, but you just have to be able to produce a product on the market that is cheaper than your competition, affordable for first time homebuyers, not second time homebuyers. You know, I like the state where the first time homebuyers, where they can appreciate a luxury product that looks like a new construction, but a substantially.

David Bright  16:36

Yeah, when, when you talk about a lot of those strategies, I know one thing that we talk often about is making this into a team sport, right? Getting a good realtor involved that can help you with the listing, getting other folks that can help you understand the construction strategy and things like that, and and I know you’ve, you’ve mentioned a mentor a few times. I want to get to that here shortly, but I want to, I want to hang on this question for one minute of you’ve got this property that you’re rehabbing, and you’re trying to figure out whether to sell it and make money as a flip or rent it and make money as a rental. How do you weigh those options, and how do you decide at the end of the deal, are you going to rent it out or are you going to flip it?

Kamren Gallon  17:17

Yeah. So for me personally, I think when I first started, I didn’t really know too much about flipping houses. I thought flipping was risky. It wasn’t a good time to flip. I thought I always had to just buy rentals, because, working as a pharmacist, we don’t have time, or we don’t think we have time to flip houses. It looks like it’s going to require a lot of time. So then you start reading books, you start educating yourself, you start listening to podcasts, you start reading books like The Seven Figure Pharmacist. And then you start putting together something called a freedom number, and that is your number that you as an individual, you say, Hey, this is how much monthly income I would like to generate to do whatever I want to do, you know, maybe to cut back my hours. If that’s something you want to do, maybe to just a freedom number could be something, even a pay for extra vacation for your family, whatever that number is. Like real estate, you know, you have to come up why you want to invest and put it, put it, put a value on it. So for me, when I first started, I’m gonna be very transparent with you, I just wanted to make $10,000 a month. And I was like, Whoa, 250 a door. And then you start doing the math, you’re like, Whoa, that’s a lot of properties, right? And it’s going to take a lot of time and a lot of debt. So now I’m like, I know how to flip houses where I can start paying for properties all cash out of state, and then I get higher cash flow. So that’s kind of my strategy. So if I could make a good return, if I can make, you know, about a 20% return on a flip. I’ll use the proceeds from that to either buy another flip, but ultimately, every three flips, I’m buying, excuse me, in the Midwest, a house all cash. That’s my game plan now. Now, like you just said, if I get stuck on a flip, which hasn’t happened, but it will happen. I just maybe haven’t done enough yet. It will happen. I will get stuck on a flip. It’s it’s inevitable, right? So if I ever do get stuck on a flip, I do have a lender that will refinance me out and like we just said, I buy them at a price point where I already run the math, you know, where I can at least cash flow about $500 a door. But when I first started, I wasn’t cash flowing that much. So for me, my number is $500 per door, or I would like to see a 20% return on a flip.

David Bright  19:55

Yeah, I like that. It’s really important to have those numbers figured out as well as the. Additional exit strategies so that when you do get stuck in a flip, and I’ve been there, that’s painful, you get stuck in a flip, but it’s so nice to be able to Refi and know that it’s not the end of your investing career, like you’re not in over your head. You’ve got another plan, and you can keep moving forward. And so I think that’s really important. You also mentioned, I want to go back now to the to the to the mentorship. You mentioned learning, you mentioned resources, you mentioned mentorship. How did you get connected with this mentor, and how do you keep pulling those nuggets of wisdom out of that mentor to push you and push you more in your investing?

Kamren Gallon  20:36

So I didn’t really realize the value of mentorship, and I think that’s how a lot of people are. We don’t really realize the value of mentorship until stuff hits the fan, let’s just say. But the sad thing is, it took me so long to realize I needed a mentor, and I’m a pharmacist, just like you guys are. We’ve been trained our whole career. You know, that’s what we went to school for. We had mentors in school that were called preceptors. But once you get into the real estate space, you just think, you know, you may know it all, or you carry your doctorate degree in the real estate space, is which I did. And that’s the wrong thing to do. That’s the wrong mentality. This is a new area for us, we still need preceptors or mentors in this space as well. So I connected with my mentor from the title company. I was closing a lot of deals using different lenders, hard money lenders. Sometimes I was trying national hard money lenders. Then I got smarter, and then I did the local hard money lenders. And there was a guy who always used the same title company, and he was trying to exit out of the business, not do as many flips. And he was just trying to make his money work for him more. And he wanted to work with someone that was hungry and, you know, had a track record. And at this time, I may have been about in 20 flips or so at this time. So the title company, as you guys, both know, they know what’s really going on. You can’t fake any receipts. They know who’s the real movers and shakers in the area. And the title company vouched for me, so they made the introduction. And ever since then, I have, I’m not gonna say I have great terms. It is really the reason I’m able to do and move at the speed I can, like, when people see my proof of funds, they know who he is, because he’s the second biggest flipper in the area. So that helps me out, you know? They’re like, Oh, you work with Jay, you know? And I’m like, Yes, Jason. And then it just, it’s just that have that credibility. And when I go to close a deal, you could say, Hey, I’m really a cash buyer. I could close in seven days. I don’t have to wait for appraisals. We don’t have to, we don’t have to worry about anything. And he trusts me so much now is just like, send me the deal. You just let me know how much money you need, and it’s and always, just make sure he gets paid back. You know, that’s the main thing. But to be honest with you, Dave, the reason he pours so much into me is because I have conversations like this with them. I even though I never come to him like I feel like I know it all. I’m always asking questions. I’m always just a sponge to him where he has his flips going on. I’ll ask, Hey, do you need me to go by and check on your flip for you, take some pictures for you, just trying to add value, you know, even, and, and one of the things he always told me is like, Hey, you don’t have to do that. You know, we’re business partners. You’re making me money too. So don’t forget about that. I still know that, of course, but always just trying to over deliver and give him value. His daughter is a real estate agent now, so even sometimes I’ll let her list my houses, you know, so just trying to keep that relationship, because it’s more than the money for me at this point that I need. And he’s not only a private lender, but he also is mentoring me. So he’s even told me he was like, you don’t want to do 50 flips a year. You need to stay where you are around that 20 mark. And that’s good. He was like, because once you get up here, your margins start getting thinner and thinner, and then you just start buying deals just to keep your crews busy. And he was like, your  margins are better than mine. You’re going to make more money than me off of your 20. Then I’m and once he said that, I said, Wow. And I really sat back, and it really made me feel good, and to hear that from him, you know, that was just, it was it was just confirmation that, you know, sometimes I just need to, you know, you can just stay in your own lane and do your thing, you know. And I’ve even expressed to him sometimes, like, Hey, should I quit my pharmacy job? And he’s like, Absolutely not. I said, Are you sure? He said, I’m doing all of this and I still run. He has a restaurant, so he still runs his restaurant. He said, No, because once you I’m trying to teach you and mentor you to work, you know, establish a business, you don’t have to work in your business this, you know, I want you to be able to take your skills from the pharmacy world, your management skills, and just build systems. Build systems. Just because you’re making more money in real estate does not directly mean you have to spend more time in real estate, and once he said that, I was like, Okay, I’m starting to get it now. 

Nate Hedrick  25:45

I really like that. And I think something you said that’s super important, because I think a lot of people are going to hear that and think, oh, man, okay, then I need a mentor. I’m going to go find somebody, and I’m going to tell them that I need help, and they got to help me, and I need to teach me everything, and then bring me another wing and give me money. And, like, what you said was, I found someone that I could bring value to, and they returned value to me. And like that. That’s actually how you find a good mentor, right? Is find somebody that you guys can share in value, even if it’s something small, like you said, like, can I go take pictures of your listings? Can I throw you a couple of deals that your daughter can list for me? Like, little stuff like that brings a lot of value to somebody, and then they can return, in their own way, value that they provide that’s totally unique. So I think I don’t want that to be lost on somebody who’s out there thinking, like, Man, I need a mentor like Kamren. Like, yes, you might. But find somebody some way that you can bring value first, and then you can work down that road. 

Kamren Gallon  26:38

Absolutely. I think the best way to add value to a mentor, especially like I said, he’s a volume flipper. I’m not a I’m not a volume flipper. So we only have so much money or capital to work with, so when I run out of capital, I still don’t want to turn down the deals, but I know he’ll take them. So that’s a value exchange, right there. You know, some people may do it and get an assignment fee or whatever they want to do, however they want to work that out. But just to just say, Hey, I know this pencils out for me, but I don’t have the money to take it down. You take this one big guy, you know, and just like that, that’s, that’s a way you add value, because you’re not even asking for anything in return monetarily, but it’s going to stretch so more in the future. 

Nate Hedrick  27:27

think that’s huge. All right, so something you mentioned that I think, I think, is something I’m curious about is, you know, the last time we talked, right, you were doing several flips a year. Now you’ve really scaled up to that. Talk to me a little bit about how you take that next step. I think there’s a lot of people that are probably out there listening right now that have maybe one or two rentals thinking about going to the next step. Maybe they’re running into issues with, you know, hey, I can only get so many conventional mortgages, or I don’t know any hard money lenders, or I don’t know how to take this and go, you know, to six deals a year when I’m barely getting through one. Like, what did that? What did that look like for you? And what advice do you have for somebody that’s looking to go from a few deals a year now to a bunch of deals maybe next year?

Kamren Gallon  28:09

So I think the first thing is, as far as on the flipping side, you have to, if you can find a mentor, number one, find someone that is doing something you want to do that. That’s the best advice I can give you in your market, go to a local Ria, or meet up and just try to get an alignment with them. The main thing you’re gonna get from these people is they do not have a scarcity mindset. You must develop that. I was asking a person that flips 100 houses a year. And I said, I mean, you must have flipped all the houses in Virginia Beach like he said. I said, How are you always asking me for more deals, more deals? And I said, you know, I’m thinking, how many houses I had to Google. How many houses are in the area? If you’ve been flipping this many houses right over 20 years you flip them. You are you flipping these houses twice? So, you know, he said you can’t have a scarcity mindset. So that’s number one. Number two is you have to stay in your lane. Just because someone may be doing Airbnb short term rentals. Try to just get good at one or two things. You know, flipping houses is active. Building houses is something totally different. The people I’m talking about that do 50 and 100 they are not building 50 and 100 homes a year. You know that that’s a whole different ball game. And when you’re flipping houses, you don’t always have to go for the most extreme flips. Sometimes you have to hit a couple base hits like, you know, get a couple $25-30k deals. You don’t always have to try to land a $50-75k flip. Those are few and far between. I make most of my bread and butter just by hitting base hits, base hits, keeping my crews busy. Now, when you find a good crew, you gotta keep them busy. That’s that’s the main thing. Now, when you find a good crew, test them out with one light job, then you want to test them out with maybe two. Everybody’s always going to say they could handle more, but you have to not put too much on them, and that’s one of the mistakes I made. I was trying to put too much on one crew, and I realized it was a catastrophe. They started skipping out on processes. They weren’t pulling permits on certain houses just to meet deadlines and and I started losing money. So you have to grow organically. I hate to say it when you start with a new crew, and I’ve been through like five contractors. Every time I start over with a new crew, I have to start all over again. So like I may say, I’m flipping 20 houses this year, but next year, if I was to lose my contractor, I have to start all over again now as one house. So to scale to that level, I’m gonna be honest, it takes a lot of trust in your team, but to build trust that takes time, so you can’t just come out the gate and just do that much volume. And as and as far as the rental properties. If you are going to probably use what we know as our 10 golden tickets, you know that’s the best financing you could get. Once you reach reach that limit, you got to do something, what I had to what I’m doing now. And you have to use these DCR on DCR loans, one of the major people I use is Lima One Capital. But these people, they will qualify you for a mortgage without pulling your bank statements, looking at how much student loans you have your you know XYZ, they are just looking at the deal. Can you bring them a property that is going to cash flow? That’s why I just got off the phone with Lima One two days ago, because the interest rates are dropping down. And I was like, Hey, I think I may get stuck on like, two flips this year, just like we talked about today like, Hey, I just want to check on the rates. It was like, Yeah, we’re good. Do you want any cash out? I said, Nope, I don’t want any cash out. You keep it all in. But these deals are gonna, you know, I already ran a numbers on it, and they’ll bring in about $500 so that’s the best way honestly. You link up with a debt, a debt service, coverage ratio, type of lender, and they will help you scale your portfolio. They are designed to help investors. They are that’s, that’s, that’s their bread and butter. They they are very easy to work with, very minimum documents, and as long as the property is cash flowing and you are making money, they will give you, they will fund it for you on a 30 year fixed note. I don’t do any adjustable rate mortgages. They may try to sell you on that, but I’m not interested in that. I just do fix that that way, you know, I don’t have any, you know, I could, I could just sleep at night, that’s all, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

David Bright  33:24

The the DSCR loans like that, the debt service coverage ratio loans, that could be a great strategy once you’ve hit that magic number of 10 conventional mortgages that you can have in your in your personal name, if you’re trying to grow your number rentals past 10. And yeah, I think that there are some people that are probably sitting there with one or two rentals, thinking, How could I ever have dozens of rentals? Right? And that’s but that’s the strategy, and that’s how some people do have a bunch of of single family or small, multi family properties. You mentioned earlier the freedom number, and you mentioned earlier that rentals are part of that strategy to get some long term monthly income coming in. What is the sweet spot of rentals that you’re honing in on, as far as whether that’s paid for or mortgaged properties like that? Like what’s your goal? Where you think this is enough to bring in what I’m looking for on a monthly basis, but not so much that I can’t sleep because it’s constant headaches,

Kamren Gallon  34:22

So I think my when I first started, like I said, my freedom one numbers was 10,000. And once I aligned myself with my mentor, he told me that was his freedom number when he started, but he started 20 years ago, right? So I said, he said, once you get to that number, your number is going to change. And I said, No, I think 10,000 is where I need to be. You know, based off the area I live in. I don’t live in New York City or California. It’s very affordable where I live. I said, I need more than 10,000 and then every now and again, he would toss me a couple books. And one of the books he tossed me was this book by. Grant Cardone that you may know of, um, called the Power of 10x and I started thinking. I was like, Okay, 10x and I wanted 10,000 then I was like, well, then we started just talking about maybe 10x-ingthat to 100,000 or six figures a month. And I said, that would be pretty cool if I can make six figures or close to a pharmacist salary every month, and we just start. And I was in his backyard one day, and we were talking about it, and he was like, and we just started road mapping it on a whiteboard in his backyard, you know? And it was pretty cool. And I think sometimes once you get see things on paper, and then he said, Okay, every day for the next 90 days, you keep writing this down. And I would go to work at the pharmacy, and before my shift, I would open the pharmacy. I would always write that down and just envision and just see how we get there, how we get there. Now I’m gonna be very honest with you. I have grown it up to six figures a month, but I’m doing so many different strategies, right? I’m not just making that off of rental properties. I’m flipping houses, like I told you. Sometimes I’ll sell it to my mentor or the other guy who does 100 flips a year. So I got so many moving strategies going on, but the ultimate goal we all know is to hopefully get it to the passive and the most passive will say, which is the rental properties. So for me, I honestly, I want to, I think I could take it up to six figures a month. You know, that’s my goal. The way I keep writing it out, it may take me till 50-55 but that’s only because now I have built a machine behind me where I’m flipping and I could pay for these houses all cash. If I wasn’t able to pay for these houses all cash and keep using the DCRs like which is great money. $500 is great money per rental property. I don’t want anybody to think that’s that’s phenomenal. Most people are only bringing in about $200 to $300 per rental property. So now that I’m able to pay for these houses all cash, you know, it’s just a snowball effect, so that that’s really the only reason why I’m able to jump my rental portfolio up. But that took so much time, like I’ve been doing this for six years, you know, I just started paying for houses cash the last year and a half, so that everything else just has debt on it. But now, you know, I’m gonna pay for these houses cash. And, you know, you just re you just keep realigning. Maybe you just pay the houses you do have that on pay them down, you know, you know. So I don’t really know what the future holds, but every time I do eventually want to make six figures per month without flipping houses, because I don’t want to keep flipping houses for the rest of my life only because, like I said, I’m only as good as my team. Like, I don’t know how to flip. I don’t know how to do any half of the stuff my team knows, and that’s and since we last talked, the prices of flips have went up too, you know. So, you know, flipping houses is very active. It’s not easy, and you have to also pay a lot of attention to the news and what, what’s going on in the media as well. 

Nate Hedrick  38:23

You know, it begs the question, then, I guess, how much are you involved in the day to day, especially like the rental operations or even, like, the flipping like, obviously not over there hanging drywall, right? But it sounds like you’ve got at least crews to manage. Like, how much of that are you doing yourself, and how much are you outsourcing to either a property manager like a construction manager?

Kamren Gallon  38:42

Okay, so, great question. So, for the, for the, um, the flipping side, I buy all the deals. So I’m, usually, I’m the guy that’s making all the offers. I’ll go see the houses. That’s me. I’m fully involved in acquisitions. I’m, I’m a solopreneur, you know, so it’s me doing everything. But then when it comes to the construction, I have a construction team, but I have a project manager, and I pay him about 10,000 per project to manage everything for me. So he manages everything for me, the deadlines we have contracts. Whereas if the house isn’t done on time, the guys are getting hit $75 a day. You know, we are. He’s very he runs it with an iron fist, which is nice, you know, because we come to the crews, we say, hey, how long will it take? And if they say 60 days, we’ll put 75 on there. And if they’re not done, if it’s day number 90, they you know, they understand, because we already, you told us this, and that’s how you bid it on a job. So he makes sure everything is permitted now, which I was skipping, so I’m be honest with you, I wasn’t doing that at the first but I got my hand spanked a couple times. You can’t cut corners. So he manages everything for me, and it runs me about $10,000 per project on a new construction house. It may get up to about $15-20 you know, just because we got to deal more with the city. Now, as far as the rental properties, um, I kind of, since I’ve been buying things cash, I haven’t I don’t have a project manager anymore. My new strategy is I own or finance all these homes. My mentor taught me that strategy. Unfortunately, I was going through a divorce, so I lost a lot of my portfolio, and he told me how to rebound and how he rebounded. He said, Hey, you could buy these properties, and you could owner finance them. I didn’t really know what it meant, and then I started looking into it. And a lot of people maybe feel familiar with Pace Morby, who’s teaching the sub two method. But if you own a property, Pace Morby is teaching the his sub two community, they’re looking for people like me, you everybody, they want to take over the mortgages we have, and we’re just the bank at that point. And once he started introducing me to that strategy, and it just changed my just my whole mindset, because I said, okay, the what he’s playing is he’s playing a different game, the ultimate game in real estate is to become the bank. That’s why he’s my lender. That’s why on the properties, he said, Hey, stop worrying about all the the headaches, the maintenance and all of this stuff, as long as you have cash, app for sale, you know, or an elect a form of where they could pay you monthly. So for the last two and a half years, everything owner finance for me. I no longer it is such, I’m not going to say it’s completely passive, but this is the most passive type of investing you can do as a pharmacist or as a full time worker. All you have to do is buy the house and someone will pay you a down payment for you design the terms you are the bank now, and it has changed my life. That’s why I’m able to tell you, Hey, I no longer get $250 per door. I could get 500 per door. That’s how I was able to do that. T

Nate Hedrick  42:27

hat’s great. Well, Kamren, I want to switch to, then to our final infusion questions. We asked you these same questions three years ago. So I won’t I won’t tip the hand as to what you said then. But I think, I think it’s cool to get to re ask you these again. So, so number one is, what’s one tangible strategy that you use, and you’ve shared a couple already, but one, one tangible strategy you use to make sure that you, that you’re investing works hand in hand with your career as a pharmacist. 

Kamren Gallon  42:55

Good question. I would say the management side. We work in retail pharmacy. You got so many things going on, phones ringing, patients talking to you, technicians talking to you, just being able to stay focused and keep a clear head is the same thing I brought over to the real estate space is so much moving parts. This going on with the house this, you know, but sometimes you just got to stay focused and also don’t be afraid to come over in a real estate space and introduce yourself as Dr. Dave or Dr. Kamren, you know, because sometimes people don’t, don’t, don’t let that You don’t come up, you come over there as humble, but a lot of people will listen to you and take you more serious as well, you know, especially when you’re trying to reach out to an agent and you’re trying to get their attention, you say, Hey, this is Dr. Kam, just trying to reach out to you. Hey, Dr Kam, how’s it going? And it’s now, it’s more of a bubbly conversation, you know. So I kind of brought that over the last couple years, and I’ve been getting a lot of response and positive feedback, because it separates me from my competition. 

Nate Hedrick  44:08

I like it.

David Bright  44:11

Yeah. Second question is, what’s one resource that’s been most helpful to you in your real estate journey? Whether that’s a book, a podcast, person, author, website, whatever that would be?

Kamren Gallon  44:23

I would say, just listening to all type of podcasts. Your podcast, you you know you have to you if you’re not reading, if you’re in the car, you may want to cut the music off and on that drive in listen to a real estate podcast. It doesn’t have to be people that are making billions millions. Just listen to people like myself, people that you interview that are a few steps ahead of you. That way it does. The dreams and the goals don’t seem too far fetched where they’re not obtainable. These people are just a few. Steps ahead of you, so they’re still on the ground with you. They still feel the nitty gritty and you know, and that way, it’s inspirational, it’s informational, and you could take the information they give you and apply it immediately. You know, it’s not outdated information, it’s stuff that’s working right now.

Nate Hedrick  45:21

I like that, all right. And then what’s one piece of advice that you’d give to a pharmacist that’s contemplating a start in real estate investing?

Kamren Gallon  45:28

I would say you, you know you have to start. You have to, you have to overcome that fear. I have changed jobs twice in the last year. One job let me go because they didn’t want to work on my schedule. Another job went bankrupt. But if I didn’t have real estate, I would be panicking. Okay, it is nice to be able to go to work and be a pharmacist, and do it for the right and do it for reasons outside of money. You know, we all went to pharmacy school to help people, and sometimes, once we start getting into our career and working over years, you’ll hear a lot of pharmacists say, Oh man, I’m tired of this, or I can’t, you know, and you know, you kind of want to be that person, to bring the energy back, bring that youthfulness back, bring that spark back. Hey, you know it’s okay to take time, the extra time with the patients, not rush giving the vaccines, you know, especially when you’re dealing with kids and stuff, you don’t want to seem too overwhelmed, you seem more relaxed, it will make you a better healthcare professional. Trust me, like I said, to not have that financial burden and to be able to go to your employer and just say, hey, got a lot of things going on here. I love working for this company. I don’t want to leave. But are you able to work with my schedule a little more? And if they say no, then it’s okay to seek other in my opinion, and this is what I did, it’s okay to seek other employment, um, where someone will work with your schedule, and that’s where, that’s why. And you can only do that if you have an extra source of income, 

David Bright  45:39

I love it. If people that are inspired by your journey, where can they find you? Where can they follow you and see more about what you’re up to?

Kamren Gallon  47:33

Yeah, absolutely tap. Definitely go check me out on Instagram. I just started my new page back. So it’s Doctor dot flipper, you know, on Instagram. So Doctor dot flipper and or you could check me out at my website, www.Doctorflipper.net up there. I have a real estate course, a book, and everything I’m talking about I learned from someone. You’ll actually see me interviewing my mentors, the people I’m talking about that do 50 deal, 50 flips, 100 flips. If you think I got a nice portfolio, I introduce you to a guy that owns 145 houses at the age of 30. So it’s a phenomenal go check it out. Very inspirational. And I teach you everything, how I’ve been able to do over 100 deals in the last six years. I teach it to you so you can just go and apply it right away. So the information is there. You see not all you’ve heard me on here, but is I reveal who I learned to gain from. That’s great.

Nate Hedrick  48:41

Well, Kamren, thank you so much for joining us sharing your story. It’s so cool to get an update from you three years after we first had you on the show, and I just It’s been awesome, man, to hear from you and really appreciate you spending time with us. So thank you so much.

David Bright  48:54

Thanks for listening to the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast. If you like what you heard in today’s show, please leave us a review and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode. If you have a question, know someone that would make a good guest, or want to connect with us, head on over to YFPrealestate.com and join the growing YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook group. 

Nate Hedrick  49:11

As we conclude this week’s episode of the YFP Real Estate Investing podcast, an important reminder that the content of this podcast is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in this podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with their financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and therefore may not be accurate at the time you listen to it. Opinions and analyzes expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist, unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

David Bright  50:06

Thank you for your support of the YFP Real Estate Investing podcast. Have a great rest of your week. 

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