YFP 394: Crafting a Rich Life in Retirement: Insights from David Zgarrick, PhD

Tim Ulbrich, YFP Co-Founder welcomes back David Zgarrick, PhD to share his journey into “preferment,” balancing retirement, financial planning, and staying engaged through teaching and consulting.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Tim Ulbrich welcomes back David Zgarrick, PhD, as he shares his journey into what he calls the “preferment phase” of life. Dr. Zgarrick opens up about his transition from academia to retirement, the joy of new routines, and the power of early financial planning. He highlights the importance of staying engaged—through consulting, teaching, and meaningful activities—while keeping financial health in check.

Key Points from the Episode

• [00:00] Welcome Back, Dr. Zgarrick!
• [00:10] The Preferment Phase Explained
• [01:56] Living the Rich Life Today and Tomorrow
• [05:11] The Importance of Early Financial Planning
• [07:48] Navigating Retirement and Financial Management
• [10:58] The Value of Community and Personal Fulfillment
• [14:38] Staying Engaged Through Consulting
• [38:33] Advice for Different Career Stages
• [44:42] Final Thoughts and Wisdom

Episode Highlights

“ Dave, take a deep breath. You’re not going to run out of money. And here’s why you’re  not going to run out of money because you  never ran out of money before and you’re not, you know, unless you turn into some different person who starts spending money in a different way, you’re not going to run out of money.” – David Zgarrick [8:37]

“ One of the conversations that my  advisor has been having with us is reminding us it’s okay to spend a little bit more money. It’s okay to, you know, go on that trip or do those things.” – David Zgarrick [9:49]

“ So long as I feel that sense of value I choose to engage myself. And, you know, on the other hand, there are places where  I no longer feel that sense of value  and I have made conscientious efforts to step away from those things.” – David Zgarrick [20:37]

“ Maybe one of the aspects of the transition that has been more challenging is, is  feeling like you are part of something  that is important or has a higher purpose.”  – David Zgarrick [21:55]

“ I’ve come to realize that’s okay,  because the people that I do have influence  with, and the people that I am, shall we say, involved with, is a smaller group of people, but in some ways we have deeper and more meaningful types of relationships.” – David Zgarrick [23:44]

“ Nothing is  forever. And you do want to  make sure that you are taking the time to spend time with people who are important to you and to do the things that are important to you.”-  David Zgarrick [43:37]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• Episode 291: Redefining Retirement with David Zgarrick, Ph.D.
• Facebook David Zgarrick
• LinkedIn David Zgarrick
• Instagram @davidzgarrick 
• YFP YouTube Channel
•  YFP Book a Discovery Call
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• Tim Ulbrich on LinkedIn
• Tim Baker on LinkedIn
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• YFP Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

Tim Ulbrich: Dave, welcome back to the show.

David Zgarrick: Thank you, Tim. Good to see you.

Tim Ulbrich: Well, we had you on almost two years ago to the date, and that was episode 291. We’ll link to that one in the show notes. And one thing that stood out from that interview for me, David, that I have shared with many other people was your mention of shifting, not to retirement, but a quote, preferment phase after over 30 years in academia, quickly recap for us, what, what you mean by that, the preferment phase, and maybe what’s that looked like now, two years later.

David Zgarrick: perform it. And just to kindly borrow a phrase that many of, you know, Lucinda Maine. She was the executive VP at American Association of colleges and pharmacy. And I served on their board of directors for a number of [00:01:00] years, got to know, listen to many other folks at very well.

We send it. I were kind of on the. Same timeline in terms of making this shift. And she, and I know she, she heard this term from another fellow CEO of another professional association in DC same timeline that she did is there’s the sense that, you know, when it’s time to change paths, so to speak, it wasn’t that I was retiring, you’re totally stepping away and, you know.

Sitting back and not doing much of anything. It was the sense that I’m going to, um, I am going to in some ways step away, but I’m going to also remain engaged in doing things, particularly things that I really like to do and I value doing, and that was that sense of that’s where preferment came from. I’m, I’m doing things that I really prefer to do both for myself as well as things within our profession.

Um, And at the same time, um, you know, [00:02:00] not having the same schedules and the same demands that we did when we were, you know, working as part of other organizations.

Tim Ulbrich: When you say Dave doing the things that I really like to do and value to do, you know, we talk often on the show about the importance of yes, the X’s and O’s financially, but also finding that way that we can live the rich life today and tomorrow. And, and I think we’re saying the same thing in a different way.

What are those things? So when you think about the performance phase, we were talking about skiing before we hopped on the show, but what, what are those things that you’re, that light you up?

David Zgarrick: Well, you know, in some ways, you know, they start with the real basics that I think a lot of us have the routines, maybe that many of us enjoy. You know, it’s interesting as I’ve moved into this. Phase mornings, you know, your your regular everyday working phase mornings can be a very hectic busy time for many families and many people because you’re obviously getting ready to get up and go to work and all that kind of stuff.

In this phase right now mornings are actually [00:03:00] one of my favorite times a day because it’s I, I You know, it’s probably fair to say I ease into my mornings. I have never considered myself a morning person. I’m not one of those people that, you know, jumps up and goes on a 10 mile run and then goes off to work or something like that.

That was not me. Um, I get up, I. Do my Sudoku. I do several of the New York Times puzzles that, you know, the word, all the connections that that kind of stuff. Um, I have a cup of coffee. I eat my breakfast. I think about what I’m going to do. Um, you know, one of the things that preferment has meant for me is taking better care of myself.

Um, and so things like, um, am I going to go to the gym and do a workout? Yeah, I do. The weather’s nice. Am I going to go up for a nice bike ride? You know, those types of things. If it’s a ski day, am I, you know, yeah, I’ll get up and get ready to put my stuff in the car and head off to the mountain and go skiing and all that kind of stuff, [00:04:00] even though so those things I do in the mornings are not nearly as rushed.

They’re just. Basically doing the things that that means something to me in our value to me and, and, and, and, and fit well with, with what I want to do. So, so from a, from a very personal sense, you know, that’s, that’s a lot of what performant is, is meant to me.

Tim Ulbrich: Dave, what I love about that is I think sometimes when we think about retirement or what we’re calling here a preferment phase, we have these grandiose vision of these big things, these big experiences, which there is a time and place for

David Zgarrick: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Very much

Tim Ulbrich: But often, I, I think it’s what you’re talking about.

It’s, it’s the flexibility of the day and kind of how you spend your time. And, you know, you talk about investing more in yourself and kind of the pace of the morning. Like these are the things that when we talk about living a rich life, you know, that really resonates with me. Like, and by the way, like [00:05:00] those aren’t crazy expensive things.

Um,

David Zgarrick: no. Exactly. Exactly. No, no. It’s, you know, doing my Sudoku and the New York Times crossword and a wordle and those kind of stuff. Those are those are pretty inexpensive things to do, uh, you know, going down to the gym to work out. Yeah. I pay a little bit for a gym membership, but in the big scheme of things, that’s, that’s not a terribly high expense.

Tim Ulbrich: Dave, one of the things in our previous conversation that really stood out to me was your mention of how important the early planning was, the, the foundation bricks that you laid early in your career that allowed you to get to a point of financial security, allowed you to get to a point of having the option, right, having this phase that we’re talking about now that you’ve been in this season for a bit of time, how has that planning impacted?

Day to day. Right. We talk so much about the accumulation and getting to this point. We don’t talk as much about, well, what actually happens [00:06:00] when you retire 

David Zgarrick: Those are great points because obviously you’re still planning. You’re still utilizing financial management and financial management skills. It’s it’s not like you get to the end of the road. It’s like, okay, I’ve got all my money and now I don’t have to do anything to worry about. You know, you still have to be engaged in in plan.

Um, you know, now probably more, you know, let’s just say this. I’ve always been engaged. Um, not just in saving money. I mean, I re I was reflecting on it. It wasn’t in our previous conversation, but I think you had posted this once. It’s like, you know, what’s, what’s your favorite fun way to spend money? You know, does every, everyone has a fun thing they like to spend money on and everything.

And I, I kind of answered that in a kind of a smarty pants way. But it’s like my, my favorite thing to do was actually save money. It made me feel good when I actually had some extra money that I knew that I could. And, and that was, um, you know, that sense of it’s going to give me options [00:07:00] down the road, you know, you know, whether it be maybe going on some fun vacation or something like that, or buying something that’s important to me, or, you know, being able to move into performance earlier than I probably had planned on doing.

And, um, you know, you know, having done that. You know, save that money really gave me those options, you know, spending money. Of course, you know, spending money is part of life. We all spend money and managing those skills, you know, the way you keep tracking your funds and the kinds of things you spend money on are things that I still pay attention to.

I still use Quicken, you know, all the time to basically track my expenses and, and keep tabs on what’s going on. Um, You know, I, I think it’s, it’s good to really remain engaged in that. I, you know, what, what I had a conversation with my financial advisor a few weeks ago, as we were going through, [00:08:00] you know, as we do most of the time, he goes to the Monte Carlo simulations of.

You know, how long is your money going to last under various situations and that kind of stuff. And, you know, his experience has been, you know, what, one of the things that most people who, especially people who retire relatively early, they, they do get somewhat, I don’t know if paranoid is the right word, but they’re, they’re concerned or somewhat overly concerned about running out of money.

Everyone thinks, Oh my God, I gotta be really, really careful. I’m going to run out of money. And my financial advisor basically told me, sit back, Dave, take a deep breath. You’re not going to run out of money. And here’s why you’re not going to run out of money because you never ran out of money before and you’re not, you know, unless you turn into some different person who starts spending money in a different way, you’re not going to run out of money.

I mean, yeah, maybe the markets go up and down. Maybe, maybe your resources become different. [00:09:00] You know what, you know what we all do in situations like that. We adjust, you know, um, you know, you know, one of the good things, I guess, about our lives. I mean, both myself and my wife were both pharmacists. So we were fortunate to have a fair amount of resources to be able to work with.

And when those resources are working with us, we’re. Enables us to do some really nice things, and that’s great. If, for whatever reason, those resources were not available to us, you know, we have a fair amount of, let’s say, discretionary in there, and we can certainly cut back on those discretionaries if we had to, and focus on, you know, what are the real absolute needs.

And, um, like I said, you know, I’m not really worried if anything, one of the. Conversations that my advisor has been having with us is reminding us it’s okay to spend a little bit more money. It’s okay to, you know, go on that trip or do those things. [00:10:00] Or, you know, our big thing this last year was buying a generator.

There’s an exciting way to spend. 20, 000, but you know, it’s, it’s actually something that was important. Um, especially given our, our move that we made over this past year, uh, moving from Colorado to Maine.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. And, and I’m glad you’re mentioning this, this behavior of learning how to spend on some level. Well, at the same time, like Dave’s not going to become a different person that got him to this point. Right. And I think that’s important that we objectively look at the facts, not only in the Monte Carlo simulation, but also in like, how have you gotten to this point?

David Zgarrick: Exactly, exactly. I, I got to this point because yeah, I, I, you know, saved money and I was judicious of how we spent it and, and I, I remained that way, you know, those things have not changed because I’ve moved into the performance stage. [00:11:00] Mm

Tim Ulbrich: about that because we had a really good brief conversation before we recorded about, you know, yes, it’s the X’s and O’s when we talk about retirement, but it’s also about. You know, community for many people and everyone’s plan is a little bit different.

And for some, you know, it’s, Hey, let’s get to the warm, warm weather and be a snowbird and that’s a good fit. Others, you know, we were joking. It’s, Hey, let’s get in the RV and travel and see the country. That’s a good fit. But for many other people, it’s, Hey, what, what is the sense of community and why is that important to us?

And I think your move to Colorado and then your move back to the Northeast is a really good example of that.

David Zgarrick: That’s that’s a great example of that. You know, I’ll go back in time, you know, two, three years, um, when we first started thinking about, you know, going down this path and my wife and I were having conversations about where did we want to be? It’s funny, you know, we lived in Boston for a number of years and, Had originally thought, yeah, we’re probably gonna end up in Maine somewhere in retirement and all that kind of stuff.

And we were out driving around one day and my wife was like, well, [00:12:00] why don’t we check out? Colorado is in Denver is placed to retire. And it’s like, I love to ski. That would be great. And we did. And so we made the move out to Colorado and, um. Let’s say, obviously, there are a lot of positives from about Colorado, especially from a skiing standpoint and being out in nature and all kinds of things, but but there were things that we really missed, too.

And I think that sense, you know, having been in particularly the Northeast for as long as we had, you know, there were there were a lot of things that we missed about the Northeast and and. You know, again, I consider ourselves very fortunate in that we, you know, we made this decision to move out to Colorado and then a couple of years later, we made a decision decision to move back and I’m glad that we did, that we, you know, didn’t feel locked into our original choice.

You know, we are happy, very happy to be back [00:13:00] to the Northeast. Um, we do have, you know, you know, community here, you know, between folks we knew in Boston and folks we knew in other parts of the mid Northeast. Um, we, we’ve had, you know, people come and visit us here. I mean, I, I was joking, you know, we, we had more people probably visit us in our first two months in Maine than we did in our two years in Colorado.

And, um, And, and so it was, it was just nice to be able to host people here. We did something here when we moved to Maine that we had not done. And my wife and I’s essentially 35 years of being together. And that was actually build a house. You know, the house that we are here in Maine is we, we worked with a builder and essentially designed and built something, you know, literally from the ground up, um, it was.

Kind of good. I feel very happy that we waited that long, you know, to do that. I know a lot of people build new houses fairly early on and that kind of [00:14:00] stuff. And, you know, sometimes, you know, it, let’s just say it helps to know what you want as well as to know what you don’t want when, when you build a home.

And that’s probably a conversation for a whole nother episode of your, of your podcast to people that are thinking about building homes and, um, You know what, you know what goes into that process. And I’d love to be part of that if you never want to go down that road. Um, but, but, you know, yeah, we moved here back to the northeast and built a home.

It took about a year to get that home built. But, you know, we’ve been here since last May and are really, really happy to be back.

Tim Ulbrich: shift gears, Dave, and talk about your decision to stay engaged in consulting work while your financial plan doesn’t require it. You just talked about your conversation with your advisor. It’s going to be okay. You, you’ve made an intentional decision to stay engaged in doing consulting work. Tell us more about that decision.

Mm

David Zgarrick: I’ll say [00:15:00] what part of it goes back to what we were just talking about with community and we have various different types of community. I mean, you know, for many of us, it’s our friends and neighbors and people that we knew in the areas where we lived and that kind of stuff, you know, a community.

That’s very important to me is is the higher education community, particularly the pharmacy education community. It was a very. Mm hmm. Important part of my, of my being for, you know, essentially 35 years and, and there are, um, many folks within that community that I’m still very much connected to, um, and I, and I stay engaged with them.

And now, in some ways that staying engaged is through doing little bits of teaching. I still, um, you know, have colleagues at various, I think this last year, I, um. Taught anywhere between one in six courses at six different universities. So, [00:16:00] um, you know, and much of that online. Some of it. Some of it. I actually did go, you know, visit campuses and that’s that’s I can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate that.

I like. The teaching in person as opposed to, you know, what so many of us have done over zoom and all that kind of stuff over the pandemic. So, so getting back into classrooms and physically meeting with students. Um, other, you know, a couple of universities I’ve been working as a, as a consulting, doing some faculty development work, doing some leadership development work.

Um, again, it keeps me engaged and involved. Um, yeah. You, we and our listeners know that, you know, there are challenges and very significant challenges in pharmacy and particularly pharmacy education right now. And, you know, what, one of the things I recognize as a consultant is I don’t have all of the answers.

I don’t have a magic wand. I’m not, you know, bringing me in as a consultant is not going to make your problems go away. Um, [00:17:00] But, um, but what I do bring is a perspective. You know, I bring a perspective by bringing experience. Um, I can help others who are dealing with issues similar to what I and other experienced leaders have dealt with over the course of our careers.

And we, we share a little bit about what we’ve learned. And at the end of the day, I, you know, I, you know, especially when you’re a consultant, I, you know, I recognize Transcribed What I am and what I’m not, and you know, what I’m not is a savior. I’m not, you know, somebody who comes in and solves all the problems.

What I do bring is a perspective. And at the end of the day, you know, I take a step back and say, ultimately, this is your problem to solve. It’s not my problem to solve. I’ll, I’ll provide you with this information and this feedback and this help, and at the end of the day, you’re, you’re, you’re, you on your end, they’re going to decide what you want to do.

And, and that’s, I guess that’s another nice thing about being in the performance [00:18:00] stage of life is I’ve gotten very good at saying that’s not my problem.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. Yeah. Or here’s what I can do and I can’t do.

David Zgarrick: Here’s what I can do and here’s what I can’t do or won’t do. So, I mean, you know, one of the things from the teaching, I mean, I’ve made a conscious decision. I’ve had colleagues at other universities come to me and say, Hey, Dave, would you like to? Teach this course, you know, not just a lecture or two, but come in and teach an entire course.

And that’s something I’ve taken a step back from and say, no, I won’t do that. I don’t want to be in charge administratively of all of the aspects that are involved because because teaching a course is, as you well know, is so much more than just coming into a classroom and giving lectures

Tim Ulbrich: You’ve served your time there. You’ve done it. Ha ha ha.

David Zgarrick: Exactly. And, and that’s, yeah, no, that’s, that’s, that’s not an area that I, that I want to be involved in anymore. Yeah.

Tim Ulbrich: And your story is such a good one, Dave, for me, uh, and it’s an inspiration to me when I, when [00:19:00] I think about retirement, um, I don’t foresee a point in time, you know, outside of, of health concerns or something that doesn’t allow me to work of not doing, you know, something, money aside, you know, I, I just value.

That feeling of being engaged, of contributing, and it’s a two way street, right? So when you’re consulting with universities, whether you’re teaching or, you know, consulting, uh, with the leadership teams, whatever you may be doing, of course, you’re providing your experience and offering value. But that’s a two way street back to you of, of that sense of feeling of, of contribution and, Hey, you built a career and have gained these experiences and skills and to be able to share those.

Yes, you’re going to get paid for it as a consultant, but I would argue there’s, there’s perhaps even a greater value that comes from a sense of contribution.

David Zgarrick: Yeah. No, I mean, it all comes down to, I mean, I, I have a pretty simple mantra these days. I mean, I, I want to do things that I value and I want Okay. [00:20:00] What I do to be valued by others. I mean, and there’s all kinds of ways to define value. I mean, you know, there’s, there’s what one gets paid, of course, but, you know, there’s other things that you and I both do that, you know, maybe the sense of value isn’t in what we.

Get paid for doing, but it’s in how we’re making that contribution. And is that contribution important to yourself? And is that contribution important to the others that, that you work with? And, um, you know, so long as I feel that sense of value, I, I choose to engage myself. And, and, you know, on the other hand, you know, there are places where I no longer.

Feel that sense of value and I have made conscientious efforts to step away from those things. Um, you know, I, I don’t, you know, again, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s very nice being at a [00:21:00] point in your life where you don’t feel you to do something.

Tim Ulbrich: Yeah. Dave, I remember probably three months or so ago, you and I had had touch base. And one of the things you mentioned was how stark of a transition it was. To go into retirement where you’re no longer day in, day out, interacting with colleagues. Uh, and I know that shifted a little bit with the pandemic.

Maybe that was a, a, a, a little bit of an off ramp, you know, and, and reduced that. But tell us more about that. Was there anything else that really surprised you about the transition?

David Zgarrick: Well, I was gonna say, when I when I think about the transition, I mean, on one hand again, I think about mornings and working out and taking better care of myself and all those good things that I know that I’m doing a better job of now that I that I was doing before, um. Maybe one of the aspects of the transition that has been more challenging is, is feeling like you are [00:22:00] part of something that is important or has a higher purpose.

Um, you know, when we, most of us, when we work within our jobs or careers, we are working as part of organizations and there’s a reason we’re there. We want to be there. We want to contribute to, to something that we know is, is important. Bigger than ourselves, whether it be taking care of patients or, you know, educating students or, or doing the research that we’re involved in and that kind of stuff, we, we know that there’s that higher, bigger purpose to, to what it is that we’re doing.

And as, as you transition into retirement preferment, um, you know, you’re, you’re kind of stepping away from that. And, um, one of the things I, I had this realization a few months ago and, and. You know, we, we think about our spheres of influence and, you know, when I was, um, doing my work in higher education, you know, there’s a lot of value that’s put into how big [00:23:00] that sphere of influence is and, and how many people are you influencing?

What types of influence are you having on them, and that kind of stuff. Yeah, as I’ve, as I’ve made this transition, one, one thing you, you have to realize is, you know, for the vast majority of us, our, our spheres of influence are, if anything, becoming smaller as, as we step away, as we make that transition, I’m no longer, you know, in a position to, you know, influence as many people or, you know, make as many decisions that, that I had, um, previously, um, Um, And I’ve come to realize that’s okay, because the people that I do have influence with, and the people that I am, shall we say, involved with, is a smaller group of people, but in some ways we have deeper and more meaningful types of relationships, you know, the people that come and visit us here in Maine, the people that I go and visit [00:24:00] In, in other places and that kind of stuff, they’re, they’re the people that we have really made conscientious decisions about staying engaged and involved with, and I’m, I’m not going to name names here.

I mean, those people know who they are and I know who they are and we, you know, make very much, um, Decisions to to be part of each other’s lives. And I and I can’t begin to tell you how much I value those relationships. And I and I get the sense that those people value me. That’s that’s why they’re they choose to have me involved in their their circles as well.

And, um, again, I, you know, as we I’m now I I judge not so much about it. You know, what’s the number of people that I influence or the number of clicks I get or anything like that. It’s just how much do I value the ones that are really, really important to me.

Tim Ulbrich: [00:25:00] Yeah, what I’m hearing there, Dave, is, is depth over volume, right? Obviously in the,

David Zgarrick: much

Tim Ulbrich: in the role that you were in, you had a significant opportunity at the institution level, at the association level with your involvement to have a volume impact. And not to say you also didn’t have a depth of impact. Of course you did.

But here we’re talking about a more intimate number of individuals with an opportunity to go. Go much deeper. So that’s beautiful. I do want to talk about X’s and O’s for a moment. And you know, you, you retired at a time, as we often say that the time at when someone retires is one of the most important decisions are going to make.

David Zgarrick: it is.

Tim Ulbrich: There’s things that are out of our control sometimes, but there are things that are in our control. Like how have we prepared for entering into something like a volatile market? And while you retired into a market that has continued to overall trend up, it’s, it’s had its fair share of volatility. And so how have you planned for that in advance and how has that played out?

So that the volatility really isn’t impacting [00:26:00] you a whole lot.

David Zgarrick: You know, one of the things I’ll go back to it. I know this is something I touched on in the previous podcast is the important role of working with others, including financial advisors. There’s a tax advisor that I also have for many, many years. My tax advisor was actually my father. Father, um, my, my father, while he’s still alive and is still doing others, people’s taxes, I, I, I have a good laugh.

He actually dropped me as a client, uh, the, the, the, the year that my wife and I, um, had three different state tax, um, you know, taxes to filing in addition to our federal and, and move to from one part of the country to another part of the country, that kind of stuff, my, my dad said, you know what, I’ve had enough, you find yourself somebody with, uh, you know, who can help you deal with all of that.

The different things of that kind of stuff. And so it’s important to work with those things. I mean, we’re pharmacists, we’re smart people, we like to think that we [00:27:00] can do a lot of this work ourselves, and we do a lot of this lifting ourselves. But there’s also things that are Very, very helpful to get advice on that are not inherent to who we are, the kind of work that we do.

And I have certainly come to appreciate the contributions that our financial advisors add, um, farmer, um, that our, our tax person has had, um, you know, they, they keep me, they give me information. That’s, that’s very, very helpful. Um, so that you don’t necessarily have to, shall we say, worry about. A volatile market, you know, you know, the, the, you know, you know, starting with, let’s say, the value of having some cash sitting around.

So, so that, you know, one of the realities of life, of course, whether you’re retired or not, is you will have expenses and you will need cash for those expenses. And so how, how you deal with. You know, having that cash [00:28:00] and where that cash is and how accessible it is to you and those types of things that, you know, I’ve gotten very good advice over, over the course of the years, um, from the folks that I work with and, um, and they, they’ve really helped us, um, you know, not worry about, gee, the market went up.

2 percent the other day or down 3 percent the other day or something like that, you know, um, you know, I’m, I don’t worry about, gee, do I have to time that out or anything like that? I mean, yeah, timing is important and you always want to sell into an upmarket. So to speak, um, and, and so, so the good news is, yeah, making sure that you have a cash reserve set aside so that you’ve got the cash when you need it.

And when you need to raise some more cash, you can have the luxury of waiting until, yeah, the market’s doing a little bit better. Let’s, let’s sell off some assets now and, and then keep that back in our [00:29:00] cash reserves.

Tim Ulbrich: The, the visual that’s coming to mind for me, Dave, as you’re talking and thinking back to our previous interview is, you know, if we think about your nest egg. You’ve, you’ve built this bubble kind of around it, uh, to protect it and, and to give you some options and flexibility of if, or when you need to pull from it.

Right. It’s the cash on hand. Uh, it’s the consulting work that you, you’ve been doing, obviously the hard work and diligence that you’ve done to maintaining a lifestyle that you have, uh, some margin, you know, uh, month to month. And in two 92, you talked about, you know, what was your WTF fund and how your emergency fund.

That thankfully you didn’t have to pull from very much, was able to just grow, grow, grow. You didn’t borrow from it. And then eventually that became an important cash resource when you got into

David Zgarrick: is. And essentially it’s, you know, when we think about a nest egg, of course, you know, a nest egg is no one single, you know, asset for, for most of us. It’s, it’s a variety of assets. Um, it was the WTF fund. It’s our. [00:30:00] Base retirement savings funds. It was equity that we had in real estate and other types of assets for us.

There’s some, uh, life insurance assets in there as well. You know, there, there’s a variety of different assets and, you know. Good news is, I mean, we, you know, you know, we had retirement savings. We have not touched a single dime of those retirement savings yet. And that’s by plan. Um, you know, you know, we’re honestly the, the other assets that we had that allowed us to make this transition, you know, we’re, uh, you know, the, the plan was that we would have five to seven years of assets, um.

Set aside before we would even think about starting to utilize our retirement assets and, and that’s still very much the plan. Um, you know, we’re, we’re sitting here right now, you know, still, in essence, using the WTF fund to finance, you know, what our life is now. And in terms of. You know, real estate. [00:31:00] Yeah, we were able to make the transition from Massachusetts to Colorado back here to Maine, essentially working within the equity envelope of the real estate that we owned and still still work within that envelope.

It’s, you know, you know, making this move did not create, you know, additional obligations or additional expenses. You know, really, you know, we’re, you know, honestly, the cost of living in Maine is even a little bit lower than what the cost of living in Colorado was. So we’re, you know, probably even coming out ahead a little bit, even though we had, of course, you know, expenses involved in making that transition.

Tim Ulbrich: rename Dave, my emergency fund bucket, my WTF fund, because what I like about calling it that is it, it’s a mindset shift, right? Because when, when things happen, you know, I’m thinking about an issue we’ve got going on right now with our roof and, uh, you know, it’s those moments, especially when you’re working so hard on other goals that [00:32:00] if we have prepared for that.

And we can be somewhat lighthearted about it, which is like, that sucks, but let’s write the check and move on. That’s a totally different mindset shift than like, uh, like I’m so mad and frustrated.

David Zgarrick: I’ll go back to one of the things I mentioned a little bit earlier. I mean, my wife and I, it’s not exactly the sexiest or most desirable purchase that we made over the course of a year, but, but we, we made a decision to, to buy a whole house generator, um, for this house. And one of the things we learned relatively quickly after moving to Maine is the power goes out.

And the power may go out for days at a time and, um, and you want to be prepared for that. And yeah, one could go down to Costco and buy just a little generator that might keep your house, you know, keep something going or something like keep your refrigerator running or something like that. But that’s probably not what you really wanted to rely on or depend on.

Um, so, so we did buy a whole house generator [00:33:00] and yeah, there were expenses involved in getting the generator and having it professionally installed and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, I was, I was happy that, yeah, not only that we could do that, but we just had the resources to be able to do that.

Um, Going back to even the, the, the major decision about when to retire, you know, one, one thing I reflect on it, you know, most of us don’t, you know, it’s interesting. A lot of us think, yeah, I’m going to, I’m going to work at age 65 or 67. And, and if you do that, that’s great. You know, I, I, I think in, in our case, you know, we had just both gotten to a point where our, our personal values, let’s say we’re increasingly becoming different than those things that were valued by our employers and, and there was.

Not much that either of us were going to do to change how our employers actually did things. The only people we could actually influence or change were ourselves. [00:34:00] And, and the decisions we made was to consciously step away. Um, and, and we, you know, again, our ability to be able to do that was predicated by a large amount by the fact that we did have a fund set aside that set was, yeah, maybe originally was like, if there was some emergency pop up or something like that, like I said, we were very fortunate.

We never had that emergency. The fund kept growing. And at the end of the day, the fund was such that it It provided us with a bridge to be able to step into performance, maybe a bit earlier than, than either of us had originally envisioned. And, um, at the end of the day, I was really, really happy that we had that fun.

Tim Ulbrich: Dave, a subtle, but important thing I’m picking up on is the, the frequency of the we and our language. And I bring this up because I would remiss if I didn’t ask, you know, transitioning into retirement for couples. [00:35:00] It’s a household decision, and sometimes those timelines align, sometimes they don’t.

Sometimes people are on the same page. Sometimes there’s not. Uh, and everyone’s situation of course, is different, but any any wisdom you can shed there in terms of how you have navigated this?

David Zgarrick: terms of how we navigated it. It was interesting because I think for many, many years, my wife and I had actually quite different visions about how we were going to approach this. I, you know, retirement was probably something in retirement. Financial planning was probably fair to say a little bit more on my radar than it was on my wife’s.

You know, I. Yeah. My father was a good example for me in that he too retired relatively early age 57 and 27, 28 years later is still around and is still a retired still doing what he likes doing and is doing very well. And that was a great example for me. Um, I think my [00:36:00] wife originally was going to. Had every intention on keeping on working even after I took a step back.

Um, it’s fair to say then COVID happened and, um, you know, for all of us that work in healthcare and work in the healthcare fields, um, you know, that was a real seminal event. for a lot of people. And it was interesting, you know, while I as a college professor made this transition and was, you know, all of a sudden started working from home and doing zoom meetings and all that kind of stuff, um, which had its own set of challenges.

Um, my wife was a pharmacist at a hospital. Um, and as we all likely know, hospitals kept Working during the pandemic and those people that worked at hospitals kept on going in and, um, which, of course, had its own set of challenges. And I think going through those challenges, um, really. Change my wife’s mindset as well, [00:37:00] in terms of, you know, how much longer do I want to keep doing this?

And do I feel valued by, um, the organization that I, that I work for? And, um, you know, we, you know, as 2020, 2021, 2022 is happening. I think we both Increasingly, we’re on the same page that, you know, this, this is a good time to make a make that switch. And we, we know that there have been many others of us that have have joined us.

If anything, it has created, I’ll say one challenge in retirement and moving from one part of a country to another part. Now, back to this part is finding health care. Uh, we, we know that there have been many other health care professionals that have taken the last few years and have said, yeah, I’m going to step away.

And, um, that has, of course, created some challenges for a health care system that was challenged to start with in many ways. Um, and so, um, yeah, there is, [00:38:00] there’s been a challenge. It’s been, um. You know, getting health insurance, um, finding health care providers, getting appointments with those health care providers and all that stuff.

But again, that could be a whole nother show for another day. Okay,

Tim Ulbrich: I didn’t give you a heads up about this one, but I think it’s so important that we lean on your wisdom as we think about our listeners in different phases of their career. So Dave, I’m thinking about three groups.

Obviously everyone’s on their own path, but I’m thinking about those that are in the first five to 10 years, new practitioners, those that are in the middle of their career, and then those that are coming up on retirement. Uh, in the next five or so years. And so let, let’s start with those that are on that front part of their career, first five to seven years, new practitioners, they’re facing, you know, significant amounts of student loan debt, expensive phase of life might be starting a family, trying to buy a home.

[00:39:00] Getting started with investing, all these things. What advice would you have for that group? 

David Zgarrick: Start early. Jump in. Don’t be afraid. I mean, yes, you you do have obligations, particularly student loan debt and everything that you that you are going to have to take care of and do take care of those things. But get into the habit of saving money being, you know, being mindful of how you spend money.

And that’s not to say don’t do things that you want to do. It’s not just It’s about taking care of your needs. It’s about, um, you know, having your wants and, and making sure that you’re taking care of those as well. But, but jump in, don’t, um, don’t get into, um, analysis or paralysis by analysis. Don’t, don’t, you know, basically say, oh my God, there’s all these things that I have to do.

And then at the end of the day, you end up not doing anything. Um, jump in.

Tim Ulbrich: How about those pharmacists, Dave, like myself and that midpoint of their career where, where they’re looking at retirement and it’s [00:40:00] still perhaps off in the distance, but they can feel it. It’s, it’s coming, uh, often in a very expensive. You know, phase of life, maybe, maybe the student loans are gone. Maybe they’re not.

Uh, you know, I think about our situation, uh, for, for kids in the house, expenses are, are high. We’re thinking about kids college where maybe perhaps some listeners, they’ve got elderly parents, they’ve got young kids or they’re kind of in that middle. What, what about advice for them?

David Zgarrick: Have a plan, develop a plan, and then let that plan work out. Uh, you know, one of the things that Really helped us was, shall we say, being able to save for retirement to do things without having to make a lot of day to day conscious decisions. I mean, you know, for example, you know, most of us work for organizations where we can set aside money.

And and have that money, you know, basically, you know, it’s going to go into certain pots and it’s going to work and do certain things and just so have a plan. Let it [00:41:00] do that. You know, don’t don’t necessarily. You’re right. We all people in the middle of their careers are have very, very busy lives and a lot of other obligations.

And so the less you know, the less that you have to even Think about, you know, financial management is probably a good thing at this stage of your life, yet still having that plan in place. I’m not saying don’t be engaged in financial management and don’t do these things, but but have a have a pathway or a plan such that, you know, try to make things as automatic as possible so that you don’t have to put a lot of day to day effort into into managing these things.

Uh,

Tim Ulbrich: well, like put the plan in place and then automate it so important and Dave, that final group, those coming up on retirement, maybe in the next five or 10 years about to make that transition. Yes, financially, but also for the things beyond the numbers.

What, what advice would you have

David Zgarrick: [00:42:00] you know, take some time to think about what you want your life to be moving forward. I mean, there is, you know, most of us are not in situations where we have to retire or step away at a, at a certain time at a certain date. Um, you know, and, you know, to those folks that are still really enjoying what they are doing every day, if that’s, if that’s what makes you, you.

Then then do that. Keep doing that. I guess in some ways, you know, when it comes out to have that conversation with yourself, what makes you you? What is it that that you really value and is really important? Is it time with your spouse time with your family time taking care of yourself? Um, your community?

Where do you want to be? Who do you want to be with? You know, ask yourself those types of questions and and then think about how do you make Those things happen. Um, I’ll say people in our age [00:43:00] frame right now is the ones that are getting later in our careers and so forth. Um, you know, we, we still have a variety of obligations.

We think about to, you know, one of the things that I think is very incumbent upon many of us in our age age, we’re, we’re fortunate in many ways and it’s that many of us still have parents around and so forth, but they are aging. And one of the things we see is my, my wife’s, uh, my wife’s mother passed away about a month ago.

And you’re constantly reminded of Nothing is forever. And you do want to make sure that you are taking the time to spend time with people who are important to you and to do the things that are important to you. Whether it may be take that big trip or go spend time with family or whatever, because, because you do realize.

You know, even though we plan for, yeah, retirement could be 20, 30, 40 years. Um, nothing’s guaranteed. Nothing will be forever. [00:44:00] And, and, and so I think as you approach, you know, moving into making that transition with the mindset of who do I want to be, what’s important to me, what are my values and then how do I live those values?

Um, You know, that that’s certainly been our mindset as, as we’ve approached, um, you know, especially the last two, three years. And, and I anticipate that’s what it’s going to be as we continue moving forward.

Tim Ulbrich: Dave, such wisdom there. We really appreciate you taking time to come on the show. I know you’ve been an inspiration to me and this is certainly going to be valuable to our listeners and our community. So again, thank you so much. And, uh, looking forward to following up in the future again.

David Zgarrick: Thank you. Thank you so much, Tim. Uh, again, you provide such a wonderful service to, to so many of us, um, in our profession and beyond, you know, there’s so many people that can benefit from the type of work that you do, and I’m just happy to be part of it.

Tim Ulbrich: Thank you, Dave. Take care.

[END]

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