YFP 297: Introducing The Pharmacy Innovators with Corrie Sanders of Huna Health

YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, introduces the new series, The Pharmacy Innovators, designed for pharmacists navigating the entrepreneurial journey, featuring founder stories and strategies to help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs. In this first episode, Tim interviews Corrie Sanders, PharmD, before handing over the lead to her for the remainder of the series. 

About Today’s Guest

Dr. Corrie Sanders joins us from Oahu, Hawaii as President of the Hawai’i Pharmacists Association and founder of Huna Health, Hawaii’s only pharmacogenomic consulting company. After five years of practicing in private and government settings, Corrie transitioned to solopreneurship and is passionate about sharing the intricacies of that journey with other healthcare professionals. Dr. Sanders enjoys educating pharmacists and students about consulting opportunities and how ‘thinking outside the box’ will be integral to the pharmacy profession in the future.

Episode Summary

This week, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, announces a brand new series of the YFP Podcast, The Pharmacy Innovators. This series, designed for pharmacists navigating the entrepreneurial journey will feature individual founder stories and strategies to help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs. Tim kicks things off by interviewing Corrie Sanders, PharmD. Corrie is a pharmacy entrepreneur with a passion for innovation in pharmacy. During their discussion, Corrie shares what excites her most about pharmacy entrepreneurship, the pharmacy journey that led her to this point, why she chose to walk away from a desirable position in pursuit of entrepreneurship, and how she prepared in advance to transition from a W-2 job to running her business, Huna Health. Tim and Corrie talk through the creation of Huna Health, how Corrie developed the idea based on solving problems in her market, and the services offered by the pharmacogenomic consulting service. Listeners will hear practical advice and resources that helped Corrie early in this journey, how her role as president of the Hawai’i Pharmacists Association played a part in helping her grow as a business owner, and how she works through “head trash” as a small business owner. Tim wraps up by sharing what listeners can expect from The Pharmacy Innovators series and hands the series over to Corrie for the next four episodes. 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• Huna Health
• U.S. Small Business Administration: Small Business Development Centers (SBDC)
• Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:00] TU: Hi, guys. Tim Ulbrich here, and welcome to this special episode of the YFP podcast. Today marks the beginning of a journey that has been in the making for some time, and I’m thrilled to be kicking off a new series on this show, The Pharmacy Innovators.

Now, if you’ve been listening to this show for some time, you know that over the past couple of years, we’ve been featuring a handful of pharmacy entrepreneur stories of individuals that are blazing paths to monetize their clinical expertise, evolve our profession, and improve patient care. It’s an exciting time to be in a profession that is ripe for innovation and disruption, which means there are opportunities all around us. As we see more pharmacists embrace these opportunities and enter unchartered territory, we want to create a space to learn more about who these innovators are, what they’re working on, why they took the paths they’re taking, and what makes them tick. That’s exactly what we have planned for this new series, on the YFP podcast, The Pharmacy Innovators.

This series is really designed for pharmacists that are navigating the entrepreneurial journey, whether that be for individuals that don’t yet have an idea but are looking for inspiration, or those that have an idea and just getting started, or perhaps those that have been at it for a while and are looking to continue to improve, to grow and to scale. In this series, we’re going to feature individual founder stories and strategies that will help guide current and aspiring pharmacy entrepreneurs.

Today, I kick things off by interviewing Corrie Sanders, and I’m going to play my usual role of host and interview Corrie about her career and entrepreneurial journey. But here’s the twist. Here’s the exciting part. After today’s episode, she is going to take the mic for four more of The Pharmacy Innovator series podcasts throughout 2023. She’s been planning and scheming with some awesome guests and content to feature throughout the year.

Now, for those that don’t already know Corrie and the work she is doing with Huna Health, stay tuned. That’s what we’re going to talk about on today’s episode. But let me give you the short story of why I thought she was such a great fit to serve as host of this series throughout the year. Lots of reasons. But three that really stood out to me. Number one is she has a passion for pharmacy entrepreneurship and innovation. Both for those that are starting their own thing, but also for those that are looking to innovate and disrupt within their own organization.

Number two is she has made the jump from employee to entrepreneur and being towards the beginning of that journey she has a lot to share about how and why she made that transition and what she’s learning as she grows her business. Of course, while interviewing others, she’s going to bring that perspective, as one that is curious, that is getting started as an entrepreneur, which I think it’s going to be so helpful to others that are on their own journey.

And number three, she is contagious with her enthusiasm and energy. We need that in our profession at a time when there’s a lot of pessimism. We need that to be a realistic, enthusiastic, and energy, and I think Corrie brings just that. All right, let’s jump into my interview with Corrie Sanders as we kick off The Pharmacy Innovator series on the YFP podcast.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:03:02] TU: Corrie, welcome to the show.

[00:03:04] CS: I’m excited to be here, Tim. Thanks for having me.

[00:03:06] TU: Well, this is an exciting time, one for our profession, I think lots of disruption and innovation, and we’re seeing many pharmacists enter into some really cool ideas and intrapreneurship, entrepreneurship. We’ll talk about those throughout this series that we’re featuring in The Pharmacy Innovators. But also, an exciting time, as we’re going to feature your story, your career journey, your journey into pharmacy entrepreneurship on this new series, The Pharmacy Innovators, and then I’m going to pass the mic, as you’ll interview others throughout 2023. I think there are lots of exciting pharmacists, founders, stories, and ideas that are out there that we’re going to explore in much more detail.

My first question for you, Corrie, is what excites you most about diving more into pharmacy entrepreneurship? It’s a topic that I’ve since, as we’ve talked over the last six or so months, that you’re just as energized and enthusiastic as I am and what’s behind that?

[00:04:02] CS: I think we’re seeing pharmacists leverage their clinical skill set in a way that we haven’t seen before. And this is just varied across the country, whether it’s access to care or quality of care, and we’re seeing a lot of expansions and pharmacists’ scope of practice at the state level. So, I think the legislation is really setting the foundation to get pharmacists to be thinking outside the box of alternative revenue streams and traditional care settings.

[00:04:27] TU: Awesome. Awesome. We’re talking about what you’re doing with the work at Huna Health here in a little bit. But I want to start with your journey into the profession. Where did you go to pharmacy school and what ultimately led you into the profession of pharmacy?

[00:04:40] CS: Sure. So, I went to pharmacy school at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia. I’m born and raised in Virginia, and I went into pharmacy because I love the clinical care setting and the impact that you can have directly on patient care. So really, just a nice hybrid of science and medicine, but still retaining a lot of the interpersonal relationship that you can have with your patients and other healthcare providers. It was just a really perfect combination for me to step into the pharmacy practice area.

[00:05:09] TU: So, from Virginia, graduated from VCU, you would then go on to do a PGY1 residency. Tell us more about that experience and then what led you to your first job after that.

[00:05:19] CS: Sure. And I joke all the time, I feel like I’m 30 years old, and I’m on my third pharmacy career already. But I did a general PGY1 at a healthcare system called Sentara, based out in Norfolk, Virginia, and I was really critically care focused there. But then, my husband was in the Navy for seven years, and his orders took us out to Hawaii. So, I made a complete 100 Navy pivot. I had to switch from a critical care focus to an ambulatory care setting, just based on the job opportunities that were out here in Hawaii. Then, after spending three years with the Department of Veterans Affairs, I’ve now transitioned into independent entrepreneurship and pharmacogenomics.

[00:06:00] TU: Corrie, by all accounts, outside looking in, the VA is a pretty good job in our profession, right? Great compensation, good benefits, expanded scope of practice for many folks. So, I think the question is, what led you to the point to say, “I’m willing to walk away from that. Maybe this isn’t, for me, maybe there’s something else that’s out there.”

[00:06:20] CS: Sure. I think that’s such an important question is really taking a look at yourself, and what makes you happy and what you get job satisfaction from, and I just wasn’t feeling that within the department that I was in. So, looking long term, and being able to grow in leadership positions, or being able to really practice towards the top of my license, despite having expanded clinical scope at the VA baseline, just the innovation and the growth for me wasn’t there.

On top of that, I didn’t like the person that I was becoming because of the work culture that I was practicing in. I just felt like I was carrying such an emotional and mental weight stepping outside of work and that was really taking a toll on me mentally, and I just wasn’t willing to sit in that space for the rest of my career. Then, ultimately thinking about, I learned so much about what work can be from my parents. I did not want my kids to think that this is what work looks like, is that their mom comes home, they’re tired every day, they’re complaining about their job, it’s not invigorating them in any way, shape, or form. And I just projecting a couple of years ahead, my husband and I all have kids, hopefully in the next few years, but that’s just a lesson that I wanted to teach my kids to is like, work can be amazing, and it’s not worth sacrificing your mental health to say in a position just because it’s a good position from the outside or it meets a certain paycheck metric.

[00:07:48] TU: Corrie, that’s really powerful. And I think many of our listeners are going to resonate with that of, maybe there’s something more, something else out there. I think, for many, that emotional side of what we often say is living a rich life, not just dollars and cents, but living a rich life in terms of the work that we’re doing, the contributions that we’re making, the relationships that we have is so important. But I think, what often is the struggle is translating that emotional desire with some of the Xs and Os to actually make a transition or make it happen.

I talk with pharmacists every single week that says, “Hey, Tim, I would love to do X, Y, and Z, or that are feeling some of the emotional pains that you brought up. But… I’ve got $200,000 in student loan debt. I don’t really feel like I have a good foundation investing. I’ve got a young family. It’s a busy phase of life. I’m not sure how I’m going to replace my income. What about health insurance?” All of these things that we have to think about when we’re starting our own business, and they’re all real, but they’re big barriers to overcome.

I know you and I have talked about this before, as we’re planning for this series that, “Hey, this is a topic we don’t talk enough about and transparently enough of how do we actually make and prepare for this financial transition from a W-2 that pays well and great benefits, to a path where you’re out on your own.” Tell us more about what that looked like for your own journey?

[00:09:13] CS: Sure. There are so many components of this question, right? So, at the core of it, it’s really you need to have a skill, and what skill are you confident that is going to translate outside of whatever practice setting you’re in, that you can monetize after you make that transition? It’s one thing to think about wanting to be in a different care setting and all the opportunities that exist and really, it can become overwhelming, if you really start tapping into the pharmacy entrepreneurship community. There are a lot of things that pharmacists are doing. But really what is that skill? And what skill are you passionate about? And that is really the core of being able to make that transition tangible.

For me, it was getting a certification in pharmacogenomics. I had heard about pharmacogenomics, because I also majored in nutrition and undergrad, and so I was familiar with nutrigenomics. So, that was just an amazing hybrid when I learned that you could apply that to the pharmacy practice setting. But one, really honing in on that skill, and then two, preparing financially and leveraging the finances and the opportunities that your current position provides.

For me, it was staying within the VA for X amount of years to retain the match on my 401(k). It was planning ahead and really leveraging some of the costs in my home life or in my personal life. My husband and I had spoken for almost — about a year, about what our savings should look like and what marks we wanted to meet, and how many months of savings we needed to have added up. You and I can dive into that a little bit deeper, too.

But I would say the two biggest takeaways are, one, leveraging that skill that you’re going to be able to utilize outside of your care setting. Then, two, really diving deep into those finances, with your significant other or your family or if it’s just you, and being honest with yourself in real about what’s going to make you feel comfortable. And that’s different for everyone, just depending on your risk tolerance.

[00:11:03] TU: Yes, I think risk tolerance is different for everyone. That’s a great, great point. I think leveraging that skill, and really having – nothing is known, right? When you’re starting entrepreneurship, but obviously doing some of your background, and your homework, you’re planning to understand what is your skill set and your ability to monetize it. What’s the potential market look like?

Something I heard from you, which is really important, is this concept of a runway. I think we often think about entrepreneurship as like someone jumping in the deep end. The vast majority of people that you talk with, I think share a story similar to yours, which is, I’ve been planning this for a while. Sure, there was a point, there was a decision point where you made a jump. And of course, there are those stories here or there where people just truly jumped in the deep end. I think often those are because of job loss or other things that might happen or life events. 

But more often than not, there’s some strategic thought and planning and work that’s been done. I think about it more like an exit ramp than literally jumping off the diving board into the deep end. Financially, of course, that’s so important for many reasons. One of the things I share often, Corrie, with folks is partly from my own journey, and just talking with so many pharmacists is that if you aren’t able to approach your business with a perspective of having a strong personal financial foundation, your business is going to suffer. Because you’re going to get into short term thinking. If you’re stressed with, “Hey, I don’t know what to do with my student loans. I don’t have the right reserves.” You mentioned that. “I’m worried about X, Y, or Z.” I’m not suggesting you have to have it all figured out. But if we at least have thought through these, and we’ve considered some of the potential pain points, and we have a plan in place, that’s going to be better for the business as well as your sanity.

I think, the reserves, tell us a little bit more about that. Because that’s an important piece of how much is enough? What are we comfortable with? I mean, if we just be kind of direct for a moment. If a pharmacist, let’s say is making, I don’t know, $120,000, $130,000, you multiply that by 1.25, 1.3, when you factor in benefits, probably even more when you consider purchasing health insurance on your own. That’s a pretty big number that I think scares people of how am I going to replace that. And then, what happens if I can’t replace that, which is where the emergency fund would come into play? So, how did you and your husband think about the reserves that you are comfortable with in making the transition?

[00:13:21] CS: What you said is completely correct. You can’t just consider the financial benefit. You also need to consider some of these background finances that are being flown from your paycheck that you may or may not even think about anymore. So, really important to be honest with your contributions and your investments. Really, the salary for us after benefits came somewhere around $160,000 or $170,000.

From there, we really dove into three different areas. Our reserves, our investments, and then our loans. I’ll work my way backward from those. Student loans, I still have a significant loan burden, so I didn’t pay that off completely. I was on a really aggressive payment path. I was on a payment path to complete my loans in five years, and I had close to $150,000 in loans when I left pharmacy school. So, I’m less than $100,000, which is significant in a short amount of time, but I’m still pretty high up there.

[00:14:16] TU: Which makes sense, right? The pandemic and $0 payment.

[00:14:19] CS: Totally. Yes. So, one thing that we did with the loan forgiveness, or the loan forbearance with COVID pandemic, is that we put a lot of those student loan payments into either going into a house account, so we purchased the house last year, and really cushioning the savings or building up the savings for our house account. And then everything else because I’ve been talking about making this transition for my career for about a year, went into building up the savings and reserves for going into entrepreneurship and really making that career transition.

So, for us, I have just about eight months of reserves saved up to give myself some grace between jobs, which I have some grants now that I haven’t had to tip into the reserves yet, and we can talk about those grants a little bit later. But that was our plan, is that eight months of savings. And then another thing I think is really important is having a plan B. So, what is your exit strategy going to look like if this is not a successful move for you? I think you really need to have that conversation before you make the jump and before emotions get tied into making that decision. Otherwise, it can be really messy down the line, when you’re already emotionally invested, and that you’re dipping into things you shouldn’t be dipping into financially, or you’re looking to offset different assets when maybe your business plan just isn’t working, or you need to pivot.

Having those conversations, knowing what the plan B is, knowing if you’re married, who’s going to jump into a higher paying job or make a transition, if you are going to continue down this path to make it work. Just really having the emotional conversations upfront before your back is against the wall, I think is really important to do.

[00:15:58] TU: I think that piece, right there, is so important. Having those conversations before the issues come to be. So, you’ve already kind of thought about them in a less stressful environment. Then, what I’m hearing a theme of, is that there are a lot of conversations that are ongoing between you and your husband, which separate topics for another day. But the health of an open financial conversation and making sure that we’re working on this plan together and beating up both the challenges that may exist and obviously being excited about the opportunities of, “Hey, if we are very successful in business, what are the priorities? What do we want to work on? And how do we allocate those dollars accordingly? How much are we going to reinvest in the business? How much are we going to take out?” So important to think about some of those things in advance.

Corrie, tell us about Huna Health. What problem are you trying to solve? What are the services that you offer? I think, at the foundation, every business is really trying to solve a problem that is one, that people care enough, that they’re willing to invest and pay for it. So, what is that for Huna Health? What are you trying to solve?

[00:17:00] CS: Sure. I think, there are maybe two components that you can think about when you’re trying to solve a problem, and then what that really means to you. One, what is your why? And are you passionate about what you’re doing? Because that is going to make the entrepreneur transition really makes sense, even when you’re in these tough times, and having to make hard decisions. If your why is something that you’re passionate about, that will keep you going long term.

But the second thing is, know your market. So, I have spent three years in Hawaii. I know the pain points of this healthcare system. I know how pharmacogenomics can really serve as a solution to a lot of those problems. It all just kind of came together perfectly for me.

In Hawaii, we have a lot of barriers to care, and a lot of access to care issues. We’re in a huge physician shortage. We are not leveraging pharmacists to practice toward the top of their licenses, which is something that I’m working on with the state association. But it’s just this perfect storm of we’ve got a lot of access to care issues, and pharmacogenomics can help to bridge that gap by reducing overall costs of medication, reducing the amount of touchpoints that you need to go back and follow up with a physician, just really providing personalized care that will reduce the burden on an already overburdened healthcare system.

On top of that, we’ve got a really unique patient demographic here. We’ve got a lot of minority populations that statistically process medications a lot differently than the Caucasian population. So, it’s really just, again, knowing that market, but also having that passion for why this makes sense here in Hawaii, and being able to bridge that gap and use the pharmacists to be able to do it.

[00:18:40] TU: What I’m hearing there, Corrie, is that we know there’s significant demand for pharmacogenomics services across the board. But it sounds like in Hawaii, even more so, for the reasons that you mentioned. The diverse population, access to care with shortage of primary care physicians, underutilization, and the role of pharmacists. You and I’ve talked before offline that there’s a huge opportunity, one that you’re pursuing, as a president of the state association to really advance the scope of practice to what we’re seeing other states do across the country.

It feels like if I’m reading correctly, kind of the business opportunity really sits in the center of this perfect storm. The pain and the problem to me is evident. Tell me more about the service. What does that look like? Or what are you building it to look like? Is it a standalone service? Is it in partnership with other care providers? Tell us more about what that offering looks like.

[00:19:32] CS: Sure. It’s a little bit of both. In my ideal world, I’ve got two arms to the business. One, unfortunately, pharmacogenomic tests aren’t covered by insurance, and there’s got to be a lot more data in order for that to begin to happen. So, in my heart of hearts, I really want to be serving a population that I know can’t afford these tests. I’ve started pursuing different grants. I’ve got two grants right now, through different state entities, to be able to provide pharmacogenomic tests to underserved, really complex care populations that are more expensive to the state as they would see it.

Those grants, I’ve partnered with physicians and different healthcare settings, to act as a consultant pharmacist to come in, give the tests, interpret the tests, and then streamline patient care. The second arm of my business is direct to consumer for patients that have the funding to be able to pay for these tests independently outside of insurance, and just want a really high standard of care, and want to tap into personalized medicine in a way that insurance coverage doesn’t make a difference to them. It’s just that important. So, really going off of those two arms of serving the people that I know needing it most, or serving the people that I know need it most with the grant funding, but then also being able to tap into a community that wants it at the moment through direct to consumer.

[00:20:54] TU: This is such a great example. Let’s pause for a moment here for the listeners. What I’m doing is really dissecting kind of the thought process behind how the services have developed to where they are. Many people I talked with, that are trying to start thinking about starting a business, they want to focus on the service they’re offering first. What I’m getting to is that is typically not where we want to start. We want to start with what is the problem that needs to be solved. What’s the pain?

One of the things I always encourage people is like, go through your everyday experiences. Where are the inefficiencies? Where are the problems that need to be solved? Good or bad, when you think about healthcare and pharmacy, they’re all around us. They are all around us every day of problems that need to be solved.

So, what are those things that, number one, there’s pain? Number two, that really interests you, Corrie, you mentioned your why, something that’s going to really fuel your passion, keep you motivated, keep you going. And then we start to back into, okay, under that problem, what is the avatar? What does this person look like that might be struggling with this problem? And to be as specific as you possibly can be. This is where I think folks often struggle, Corrie is where they want to try to build something that, I don’t really want to narrow myself into this specific demographic. It’s too narrow, it’s too niche. There’s always room to expand. But there are way too many examples of businesses that start broad, and they’re trying to serve everyone. And by doing that, they’re not really serving anyone at the end of the day.

What is your ideal customer within that problem? Within that potential solution that you’re going to offer? Painting a very specific picture in terms of naming them, age, what are they doing? What’s their profession? What’s their income level? All those types of things. And then from there, you’re aligning the solution with the problem and the person. I think you have done this so well, and we’re going to dissect this further with other people that come on to this series, of we focus on the solution. I think that’s maybe a little bit hardwired, of who we are as pharmacists of like. “I have this great idea. I have this solution.” Is it even aligned with the right population addressing the right problem?

This is so key, because all of your marketing, your storytelling, how you position this, all of this is going to be speaking to the pain and the problem that someone has and how this solution is addressing this pain. I just want to pause there for a moment, because I think it’s a great example to walk through how you’re developing this, and kind of the system to think about along the way.

I want to shift gears and ask you a question. I know you’re early in the business, but one of the things I see people struggle with is this question of should I pay myself? Or should I invest back in the business? I think this is really challenging, especially for folks that are transitioning from a high-income profession, like pharmacy where they want to, as quickly as possible replace their income. That’s different from other areas where you hear the startup stories where, maybe somebody lost their job, or they were very young, making a small income. So, that jump to zero wasn’t as significant, right? There wasn’t as much pain.

I think this pressure is even greater with pharmacists where they’re like, “Ah, I want to pay myself. I want to pay myself.” But they’re feeling the tug of should I invest this back into the business? Whether that’s systems, people, or resources, to really give this the fuel and the life that it needs. How have you approached this balance and this question so far?

[00:24:19] CS: Tim, I think this is such an important question because you can really put yourself into a hard-financial position. Like I said if you’re not having these conversations, and you haven’t set these boundaries for yourself before you get into the business, I just think it becomes way more complicated to answer them once you’re already up and moving. So, something that I did was just a really deep comprehensive analysis of my baseline expenditures every month, my fixed costs, my variable costs, and knowing what I would need to pay myself to live and maintain a lifestyle that I’m comfortable living throughout this transition. And that definitely involves streamlining some things and making cuts where I could. But I pay myself that amount of money every month, and then the rest of it gets circulated either back into the business or toward my student loans.

Again, I just came in with that number in mind, and it’s so important, that’s going to look really different for everyone, depending on the chapter of life that you’re in. Do you have kids? Do you have a significant other that has loans that you’ve got to prioritize? But really, being honest and upfront with yourself, and that’s just how I do it. I pay myself the baseline that I need to continue to maintain the lifestyle that I want. And then the rest of it is circulated into other financial vehicles.

[00:25:32] TU: If I can connect the dots too, because of what you shared earlier, that eight-month reserves, setting up a good financial foundation, having other revenue streams, that help to diversify, allows you, I would think, to keep that number within range that it’s not suffocating your business. Whereas if you said, “Hey, because of those other things not being in place, I have to have this income to be able to do all these things.”

I think that planning, as you’ve alluded to, a few times now is so important, and you kind of mentioned this. But we don’t objectively evaluate our business. That’s just human behavior. When you build something that you create and you’re passionate about, a lot of the objectivity goes out the window. It becomes very emotional, right? These are why you hear the stories sometimes of founders sharing what they’re doing, what they’re working on, and the money, they’re investing into it, not making money, not being profitable. You’re like, “How in the world are you continuing to run a business?” It becomes very subjective and emotional over time.

I think, having accountability, talking this through with a partner or preplanning, maybe having a coach involved, whatever be the case, is so helpful, because yes, that passion is going to serve you when you’re building the business and the mission. But it also can be blinders sometimes, as we’re not able to see clearly some of the challenges that are in front of us.

Corrie, let me ask you about resources that have been really instrumental to you early in this journey and going through the transition. So, whether it’s paid or unpaid things I’m thinking about, whether it’s programs that support pharmacy entrepreneurs. I know, you talked before we hit record on some of the work that you’re doing, an accelerator program, whether it’s coaching services, books, podcasts. What have been a few of the resources, whether paid or unpaid, that had been most instrumental in your journey of making this transition?

[00:27:21] CS: Sure. I think I’ve got two that come immediately to mind. One, I’ve found it very impactful to be surrounded by pharmacists that are also making this career transition. I am a part of one of the online academies that’s offered from another pharmacist to really just surround myself with other professionals, specifically in the pharmacy care setting, to be able to just provide a community of support and understand the transitions and the intricacies of pharmacy and have those conversations that are maybe a little more specific has been really, really great for me.

The second resource that I’ve tapped into is the Small Business Development Center here in Hawaii, and I would recommend that anyone that’s making an entrepreneurial transition do that. Because the small business community in your state is aware of your state specific laws. They’re aware of the needs of your state. They’re aware of the local resources that they can point you to. So, it’s one thing to have this pharmacy group and have a lot of people that you can maybe comrodorize with about what’s so specific to the profession and maybe bounce ideas off of them. But, I think, the most instrumental piece has been the Small Business Development Center locally in Hawaii.

Something that’s tapped me into is, I’m now going through a business accelerator program or a business incubator program that’s funded locally by the state. But it’s essentially a really intense one-month workgroup. They tell you to dedicate somewhere between 30 and 40 hours in a week. But basically, we go through every single aspect of business that you don’t touch in pharmacy school in a traditional care setting unless you had traditional training with an MBA or some kind of other entrepreneurship experience in your past. But we go through everything, branding, marketing, advertising, strategizing, scaling, and being able to not only have those resources provided to me and have conversations with local leaders. It’s just been an amazing, amazing growth and connection platform that’s local to the state.

[00:29:24] TU: What I love about that experience accelerator program is you’re in it while you’re building something. It’s the best time to learn. I mean, I’ll knock on MBAs for a moment. But I think often those courses are taken in the context of maybe a future idea or you’re already working with an organization more geared toward folks that are in a management role. When you are in the thick of trying to start and build a business and you’re learning, that’s power. That’s where I think the magic really happens. As you mentioned, Small Business Development Centers are located all across the country. I believe they’re partially or fully funded by the SBA. We’ll link to the SBDC in the show notes. I’ve had some experience with them in the past. A great resource, as you mentioned, to really help you with some of the foundations, to have a point of contact, basics around business plans, starting an organization, the early steps of the business, connecting you with other entrepreneurs, resources, illegal resources, et cetera in the area. I think they do a fantastic job and it’s free, which is a huge benefit, something that other resources do as well.

[00:30:25] CS: I have found that the small business community is so supportive of one another, and just really interested in helping each other out and pointing each other in the right direction. And it’s kind of like this camaraderie that you’ve got that maybe you don’t fit into a traditional work mold that everyone just likes to focus on, and really pull each other out of the weeds and support each other and be there.

I’ve also really found a lot of opportunity, just in the last year, just speaking into existence that, “Hey, I am a small business owner when I introduce myself in groups now.” I’m like, “Oh, my name is Corrie. I work as a pharmacist and I transitioned from a traditional role, I now own my own consulting company.” That’s how I introduce myself in various settings. But you would be so surprised, I’m not even doing and like a salesy way. I don’t want anyone’s business. But how many people approached me with, especially when they’re in health care? What are you doing? How are you doing that? What does that mean? What does your business look like? I found such a unique group, within the small business community itself. It’s been really refreshing.

[00:31:28] TU: Yes, let me introduce you to so and so, or have you thought about this? It’s an incredibly collaborative group and I think, especially when it’s authentic, and you’re there to learn, you’re there to contribute to the network as well. Obviously, there’s value to be derived from that also. Corrie, what role has your presidency of the Ohio – not the Ohio, of Hawaii —

[00:31:51] CS: We should leave that in there.

[00:31:53] TU: We are. We are going to leave that in there. The President of the Hawaii Pharmacists Association. How has that helped you grow as a business owner as well see the opportunity that’s out there?

[00:32:04] CS: Yes, that has been truly instrumental in having a successful transition. Like I said, my husband and I were really planning for financially about a year, but I knew that I was going to leave my job somewhere around that three-year mark with the VA. So, I started tapping into my resources within the state association, almost immediately after making the decision that I would be making a transition.

A lot of people that I work with, that are directors of pharmacy, or really impactful in the state just saying, “Hey, I’m going to make a career transition. This is what I’m looking to do.” And get them thinking about what opportunities they can provide for you has been amazing. That’s actually how I got pulled into two other grants that I have right now, is just having those conversations really early on with some people that were influential in the state association. 

Hawaii is also really unique. I mean, our state association, it’s very small. Our state is very small. So, I can make a pretty big difference on a pretty big scale just because of how small the state is. But tapping into your state association is an amazing community, an amazing resource. They’re up to speed on the law. They can normally tell you where there are other weaknesses in areas where maybe they’re getting different things pointed to them from pharmacists in the state.

So, I’ve loved working with the state association. I’m obviously also biased because I’m the president. But that is another really huge way to impact pharmacy practice, that I don’t think is taught well in pharmacy schools, in general, is provider status. We’ve been hearing about it since we were in pharmacy school at the national level. But really, where you make a difference is looking across the map at the state level because that’s where your local legislators are able to cater different statutes based off of the needs specifically of your state.

One, it’s just the connections. But two, if you really want to make a difference fast, changes made at the state level. And so, being familiar with what the opportunities are. And then again, like you said, being able to change legislation to make that happen, it’s something that I don’t think we talk about enough.

[00:34:10] TU: Yes. I’m seeing the power of networking being involved, obviously, across the state with not only the Small Business Development Center here, you’re talking about the Hawaii Pharmacists Association. You mentioned you’re part of that pharmacist’s network of a community of individuals and other entrepreneurs. So, great touchpoints and connection points to learn from other people to contribute and to be at the forefront of what’s happening, obviously, in the profession and the opportunity that’s out there.

Corrie, I want to ask you about head trash, okay? And credit to my coach, my coach who talks a lot about head trash and the stories that we tell ourselves, and often it’s not objective when we can really shine a light on what it really is. But it has such an impact on what we do or don’t do in terms of the actions that we take. As you look at this transition, you’ve made this transition for from employee to entrepreneur, what head trash, if any, have you had to get over, that you’re working through, that you really see as either was a barrier or is a barrier to you growing your business?

[00:35:16] CS: I’m laughing because it’s so easy to get derailed in your own mind with what you’re doing. So, you could be doing something as simple as like filling out a form that you’ve never filled out before and you get frustrated, and then you’re like, “Why am I going into entrepreneurship?” I don’t know what I’m doing. It becomes really easy to derail yourself mentally. I think that’s a great question and it’s very real.

But you have to remember, most people that are really successful entrepreneurs, own one skill. They know one thing. They are not trained in all of these other aspects of the business. So, you are not doing anything that is out of the ordinary. And just having that perspective of so many business owners that are really successful, had no idea what they were doing when they started. They just knew they had a really good idea and they had a really powerful connection to what they were doing.

So, I think it’s just being aware of the head trash is probably step one, because it’s going to creep into your head at some point. You’re going to start second guessing yourself. Just being able to hone back in on your why, and what you’re doing, and who you’re doing it for, is something that’s really been powerful to me. And then, I will also say, having a support system is really instrumental. And whether that’s your spouse, or tapping into that pharmacy community, or tapping into the small business community, it’ll really help you get through the weeds and the head trash pretty quickly. You can talk yourself out of it mentally and you can write some things down and focus on your why. But when you’ve got another physical person that you can really have those conversations with, that just becomes a little more real. So, that’s helped me too.

[00:36:48] TU: It’s fascinating, I think how fragile this can be early on, right? You mentioned the example of, “Hey, I’m filling out a form and I get frustrated. And all of a sudden, my mind goes to like, second guessing. I am I cut out for this? Am I going to fail?” Like, whoa, like we’re filling out a form. What just happened?

[00:37:05] CS: It escalates really quickly.

[00:37:06] TU: It does. I think, with more time and even stepping into some of those “failures”, and realizing like, “Hey, it all worked out. I’m willing to put myself out there and kind of learn from that, grow from that, build a team.” I think some of that gets mitigated. I don’t think it ever goes away. But I think it is a fragile period where that community, that support, resources you mentioned is so helpful, especially early on in the journey.

[00:37:29] CS: Something else, Tim, I’ve also done, is I’ve started writing things down. I was never really into journaling. But when I left my job, I just had so many pent-up emotions, I just started journaling. But I’ve also started journaling some of the wins that I’ve had just with my career and in my personal life in general and being able to flip through some of those wins when you’re having a bad day or you have a loss because you’re probably going to have a million losses, that’s just inevitable. But being able to reflect back on some of those wins too, in a tangible way, has been really helpful.

[00:37:59] TU: Corrie, I want to wrap up by hearing from you, as you’re going to take the host seat of this series that we’ve got planned out through 2023, and I expect, beyond that as well. As you think about this series, who it’s for, the focus of it. What can people expect as they tune into The Pharmacy Innovator series throughout the year? What are you hoping to accomplish?

[00:38:25] CS: Yes, I think there are so many amazing resources out there for pharmacists that are looking to make a transition. We know it’s possible. We know that there are different care settings or areas or specialties or ways that you can monetize your knowledge. We know it’s possible. But what I really want to make real is having some of the conversations that will make those transitions seem tangible. I just think that the YFP community is a great place to answer and ask some of these harder questions that have to deal with finances, which no matter how you put it, you have to talk about finances when you’re going to make a career transition. I mean, you can have amazing ideas. But I know some of these academies and some of these support groups, they don’t want you to talk about finances. And I just think that’s totally unfair to people because you just can’t make a transition without having those hard conversations.

So, I think that this is a really great community because it’s built around finances and really diving into some of those questions in a way that’s not taboo or intrusive. But then, also, just hearing different perspectives from pharmacists that have been really successful, or maybe not even pharmacists, but just have made successful career transitions. And really, some of those hard-hitting questions and the planning process and making it all just seem more transparent and possible and hopefully, give some hope to some of the listeners that are looking to make those transitions and providing them with contexts to do it in a successful way.

[00:39:51] TU: I love that, Corrie. I think you and I both share the enthusiasm for – when there’s a period of disruption, you mentioned kind of a crossroad earlier in the show. There are two ways of looking at that. There’s kind of a gloom and doom of, “Hey, some of these traditional roles are being disrupted. Maybe perhaps some contraction is happening.” Or the other way is, “Hey, this is an opportunity that through that disruption, it means we’re ripe for innovation, for new ideas.” That is scary. That is big. That is, “Hey, what does this mean? And what does the role of pharmacists look like going forward?” I think it means it’s probably a lot more diversified and broader than we think about it today, or at least how I thought about going through pharmacy school as a student.

But I think that’s exciting. One of the purposes that we’re hoping to accomplish is to feature other stories, not necessary – so if someone can say, “Hey, I just heard from Corrie. I’m going to go do exactly what she did.” But rather, “Hey, that’s an interesting way. I haven’t thought about how pharmacists might leverage their training and their clinical background and expertise to be able to go solve this problem or that problem.” I think, our hope is some of that inspiration and motivation through hearing these stories. And also, to connect these folks together to the concept of community. We’re going to have a lot better outcome if we can all be helping and supporting one another.

This has been a great start. I hope the listeners will stay tuned to hear from Corrie throughout the rest of the year. Thank you, Corrie, so much for coming on to share your journey.

[00:41:17] CS: I feel the exact same way. I’m so excited to be able to bring some of these stories to light, and like you said, to just be able to inspire and motivate pharmacists to really step into different areas where maybe we hadn’t thought about stepping before, and really embracing the innovation and the future of the profession.

[00:41:32] TU: Awesome. Thank you so much, Corrie.

[00:41:33] CS: Thanks, Tim. 

[OUTRO]

[00:41:35] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment. 

Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post, and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of Your Financial Pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. 

Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

[END]

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