How Much Home Can You Afford?
On this episode, sponsored by First Horizon, Tony Umholtz talks through how to determine how much home you can afford.
About Today’s Guest
Tony Umholtz graduated Cum Laude from the University of South Florida with a B.S. in Finance from the Muma College of Business. He then went on to complete his MBA. While at USF, Tony was part of the inaugural football team in 1997. He earned both Academic and AP All-American Honors during his collegiate career. After college, Tony had the opportunity to sign contracts with several NFL teams including the Tennessee Titans, New York Giants, and the New England Patriots. Being active in the community is also important to Tony. He has served or serves as a board member for several charitable and non-profit organizations including board member for the Salvation Army, FCA Tampa Bay, and the USF National Alumni Association. Having orchestrated over $1.1 billion in lending volume during his career, Tony has consistently been ranked as one of the top mortgage loan officers in the industry by the Scotsman’s Guide, Mortgage Executive magazine, and Mortgage Originator magazine.
Episode Summary
In this episode of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast, YFP Co-Founder & CEO, Tim Ulbrich, PharmD, is joined by Tony Umholtz, a mortgage manager at First Horizon. Tony has years of experience working with pharmacists all over the country in securing home loans. In this episode, Tim and Tony kick off the discussion by looking at how the real estate market has changed recently and why we are currently in a seller’s market. Tim and Tony discuss rate hikes and inflation, the 28-36 rule, and what that means for a pharmacist as a potential home buyer. Next, they dive into the many factors banks consider when someone applies for a home loan and which are the most important. Tony shares how each home loan situation is different and dependent on individual circumstances. He also discusses insurance and how you can make better choices to save in that area. Then, Tim and Tony dig into the area of tax and how it differs from state to state. Tony shares a brief overview of the First Horizon pharmacist home loan product, the challenges pharmacists may face with this product, and the benefits it can provide for a pharmacist, whether fully qualified and earning a full income or not.
Key Points From This Episode
- An overview of today’s guest, Tony Umholtz.
- How the real estate purchase market has not slowed down but refinancing has.
- Why we are in a seller’s market.
- What rate hikes mean and the impact they have on mortgage rates.
- The impact inflation will have on rates.
- Why locking as soon as possible is preferable when purchasing a home.
- What the 28-36 rule is.
- What banks consider when you apply for a home loan and what factors are more important.
- How the appraisal gap affects the market.
- The importance of considering expenses, fixed and variable, other than the loan.
- How insurance changes depending on what part of the USA you are in.
- The danger of over-committing to personal property insurance.
- The effect of property value on tax and how that changes from state to state.
- An overview of the pharmacist home loan product Tony offers through First Horizon.
Highlights
“The most important [factor] is the ability to repay [your loans.]” — Tony Umholtz [0:10:57]
“Just because the bank says you can afford this, doesn’t mean it’s right for you.” — Tony Umholtz [0:11:24]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode
- Learn More About First Horizon’s Pharmacist Home Loan and Start the Pre-Approval Process
- YFP Planning: Financial Planning for Pharmacists
- Schedule a free Discovery Call with YFP Planning
- YFP 245: Getting Under Contract in a Competitive Home Buying Market
- Apply for the Pharmacist Home Loan
- Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures
Episode Transcript
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:00.4] TU: Hey everybody, Tim Ulbrich here and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast, where each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.
This week, I had a chance to welcome back on to the show, Tony Umholtz, a mortgage manager for First Horizon, formerly IBERIABANK. During the interview, Tony and I talk through how to determine how much home you can afford, a timely topic, considering the seller’s market we’re in and the rising interest rates that are driving up the cost of owning a home.
During the show, we talk about the current state of the market, interest rates, and trends Tony has seen through his experiences working with pharmacists across the country. We discuss what formulas lenders use to determine the amount of home they will allow one to purchase, why you and not the bank should establish the budget for buying a home, and we also discuss the total cost of owning a home and things to consider beyond the purchase price.
Before we hear from today’s sponsor and then jump into the show, I recognize that many listeners may not be aware of what the team at YFP planning does in working one-on-one with more than 240 households in 40 plus states. YFP planning offers free only, high-touch financial planning that is customized for the pharmacy professional.
If you’re interested in learning more about working one-on-one with a certified financial planner may help you achieve your financial goals, you can book a free discovery call at yfpplanning.com. Whether or not YFP Planning’s financial planning services are a good fit for you, know that we appreciate your support of this podcast and our mission to help pharmacists achieve financial freedom.
Okay, let’s hear from today’s sponsor and then we’ll jump into my interview with Tony.
[SPONSOR MESSAGE]
[0:01:36.2] TU: Does saving 20 percent for a down payment on a home feel like an uphill battle? It’s no secret that pharmacists have a lot of competing financial priorities, including high student loan debt, meaning that saving 20 percent for a down payment on a home may take years.
We’ve been on the hunt for a solution for pharmacists that are ready to purchase a home with a lower down payment and are happy to have found that option with First Horizon, previously IBERIABANK/First Horizon.
First Horizon offers a professional home loan option, AKA, a doctor or pharmacist home loan that requires a 3 percent down payment for a single-family home or townhome. Has no PMI and offers a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage on home loans up to $647,200.
The pharmacist home loan is available on all states except Alaska and Hawaii and can be used to purchase condos as well. However, rates may be higher and a condo review has to be completed.
To check out the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan and to start the preapproval process, visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that is yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:02:41.9] TU1: Tony, welcome back to the show.
[0:02:45.3] TU2: Tim, good to be here with you.
[0:02:47.3] TU1: So, we had you last on this show on episode 245 when we talked about getting under contract in a competitive home market. Interest rates at that time were starting to creep a little bit back in March but they have certainly jumped significantly since then. So with interest rates on the rise, Tony, are things slowing down at all in this market?
[0:03:08.6] TU2: You know, it’s interesting Tim, the purchase market has not slowed down, it’s still very healthy. Refinances have, we’ve definitely seen a pullback in refinances are some cash-out refinances where people are taking advantage of their equity position and then something called a delayed cash out because there seems like there’s a lot of people that have money to pay cash for houses so they’re actually coming back to do what’s called delayed cash out. So we’ve been seeing some of those but on average, the refinance are way down as you can imagine with rates coming up.
[0:03:39.5] TU1: Yeah, it wasn’t too long ago you and I were talking about refinancing back at the beginning of the pandemic when rates were in the high twos and low three. Obviously, we’re at a very different point in place but at the end of the day, we still have a supply issue so you know, we see rent prices that are skyrocketing, which I suspect is further in individuals to want to get a new home, supply and demand.
So it feels like, despite the rate hikes that are happening, you know, recently it feels like for the home buyer, unfortunately, they’re still going to be in a very competitive market that is the seller’s market. Is that what you’re saying as well?
[0:04:11.8] TU2: Yeah, absolutely, Tim. I mean, every market’s different as we’ve discussed but on average, most markets are just not – they don’t have enough inventory and I think clearly, that’s going to push prices higher and if you’re renting and you could go pay equivalent of your rent or even less buying a home and you get appreciation. I think that’s why we have such demands. So yeah, there’s no season and demand out there that I’ve seen so far.
[0:04:36.8] TU1: Tony, I want to pick your brain for a minute, you know, the day we’re recording this, we’re expecting news today of the Fed to hike interest rates, I think we’re expecting 50 basis points, a half a percent but you know, awaiting that news and so is the stock market to see what happens.
But I always appreciate your perspective economically on what these types of Fed rate hikes mean and the impact that he may have on mortgage rates. So as you’re expecting this news to come up today, whether it’s 50 basis points or it ends up being something a little bit different than that, what are the potential implications that we should be looking for?
[0:05:09.9] TU2: Great question. I mean, the timing is a couple of hours here we’re going to get the announcement but the biggest thing is that the rates have run up so much this year since January, without the fed doing much of anything yet, right? It’s just been talk, it’s been kind of projections and they did raise a quarter already on the Fed funds rate and right now, the outlook is 50 basis points today.
It could be 76, it might shock the market but let’s say, it’s 50. Really, that’s not what I’m pinpointing as the issue for mortgage rates. It’s not going to be the front end of the curve so that front end of the curve, what we call the fed funds rate is going to affect your credit card rates, your home equity line rates, maybe some auto loans, floating rates, rates that are floating rates on the market. But long-term mortgage rates are more going to be influenced by what the fed says about balance sheet reduction.
Basically during the last couple of years, during the pandemic, they were helping stimulate the economy by basically buying bonds, being the biggest buyer of bonds, mortgage bonds, the treasury bonds and that helped push rates lower. So essentially, that runoff of their balance sheet adds supply to the bond market so that affects rates and it’s going to affect the stock market too I would think but that’s going to be what I’m watching the most for rates, you know, long-term rates and how to advice my clients.
I mean, I’ve been in a complete locking bias since the beginning of the year. I’ve had very few clients that wanted to float but my opinion’s always been lock as soon as you can and I think, today’s going to be, you know, we’ll learn more about the outlook here and what the fed’s going to do. You never want to fight the fed in what you do and the one thing I would say too is, inflation is the thing we have to watch for rates as well.
If we get any sort of ease and inflation, that can spark a new trend of rates, maybe easing a little bit, maybe capping. So those are the things I’m going to be looking for today, Tim.
[0:07:07.1] TU1: Yeah, and as you and I talk before the – we hit record, if we do find ourselves in a mild type of recession or recessionary period, we would expect the rates to come back down which could have implications as well so certainly, we’re in a volatile time period and to your comment, in case folks aren’t familiar with that terminology in terms of rate locking versus floating.
You know, in time periods where we may be expecting a reduction in rates, perhaps something like a float matters but you know, to your point, this year, as we’ve been expecting rates to go up, locking as soon as possible typically seems to be in someone’s advantage as a look they are looking to purchasing a home.
So today, what we’re talking about is how to determine how much one can afford when it comes to home buying and I think this is a really timely topic ass we’ve painted a picture so far. We’re in a seller’s market, we got rising interests rates which of course means more to the home buyer.
We also see that there’s more and more that’s out there in terms of the average loan size. So perhaps someone depending on the part of the country they were living in, you know, maybe a couple of years ago they were looking at a home that was selling at 400,000 and easily that may be north of 500,000, obviously, very different depending on the market.
So escalating home prices, rising interest rates means affordability of home, it’s certainly a timely topic and as we’re often talking about, we need to be considering how this home purchase and how the cost of the home fits in with the rest of the financial plan and the goals that someone is trying to achieve.
So Tony, let’s start with how the bank determines how much they’re willing to lend to an individual? So does the 28-36 rule stilly apply and first, if you could define what that is and talk to us about how that is determined in terms of what one is willing to lend from the institutions?
[0:08:51.1] TU2: Sure, yeah, sure. So the 28-36 rule has been around a long time. It’s a little different nowadays, we look at the multitude of factors which is to kind of go back to define what that is. Basically, the 28 percent is the amount of your monthly income that can be for a housing payment, okay? So basically, we’ll try to make it as simple as we can so let’s say you had a $10,000 a month gross income, the definition would be okay, so $2,800 can be allocated to a housing expense, okay?
Now, that is not how it’s underwritten today but historically, that was something that we looked at. It’s still looked at to some degree but we look at it a little bit differently now. It’s more your total debt, right? Your total debt ratio and that’s with a 36 percent looked at so they’d say, “Well, if you make 10,000 a month gross income, we could allocate $3,600 a month to debt” so that might be your housing expense, your car loan, credit cards.
One thing that banks do not look at is like, your auto insurance, cellphone bills, we typically don’t look at any of that in your expenses, it’s just creditor debt. So credit cards, student loans, things like that. So historically, that was a metric, especially when we did FHA loans years ago but nowadays, it’s more viewed on the total debt ratio. So we typically like to stay at 43 percent of your total debt or better.
That could be like, if you have no debt and you have a $10,000 a month gross income, household income and you are buying a home that requires a $4,300 a month payment. So that’s your total payment, it’s your principal interest, taxes, and assurance, you could still qualify because you have no other debts, right? So that’s going to be a fairly large house but you could still qualify given that there’s metrics. So that’s kind of the significance of it.
So these are called debt to income ratios is what the terminology is and that’s a very important metric for lenders. In fact, it’s one of the most important metrics. Like credit score obviously is important, reserves can be in certain products but the most important is the ability to repay. Banks are required by law to prove that.
That’s why income, if anyone’s gotten a loan anytime in the recent future, at least in the last 10 years in the recent past is you had to give a lot of documentation to the lender because we have to document the income because we have to prove you have the ability to repay. It’s called the ATR rule, so that’s the reason for these ratios.
Just because the bank says you can afford this, doesn’t mean it’s right for you, you know? So, everybody’s different, everyone’s situation is different, so it doesn’t mean it’s right for you. Now, the other side of it too and I’ll mention this is depending on the product, depending on the individual, we can go up to higher debt to income ratios, above 43 and that’s generally when you’re putting 20 percent down and you have a compensating factor.
So we do see that as well, that does occur as well. I know it’s kind of a broad scope but I wanted to kind of include because everyone’s situation is different. It’s not like a one size fits all.
[0:12:03.2] TU1: Yeah and that’s great, Tony, because I think for many pharmacists, even the numbers you use, so $10,000 a month of gross income, you know, pharmacists, you divide that by 1,200, $120,000 a year, pretty close to what we thread that comes to a national average and obviously people can do the math if there’s more than one income but I think that’s a good point of reference.
Just to reiterate what you said, you’re talking there about when we were refer to percentage that can be allocated in the housing expenses, we’re referring to the principle interest taxes and insurance, which is important. So folks are looking on Zillow or Red Fin or Realtor, we’re looking at homes that they’re looking at all those expenses that would be combined.
I want to come back Tony, and just dig a little bit deeper, you know, you mentioned a few things, if I heard you correctly that that will factor into this decision whether it’s a number lower than 43 percent or perhaps higher than 43 percent You mentioned down payment and the amount that’s down, you mention reserves. I heard you mention credit score as well.
So talk to us more about, in addition to just the income that one is making or obviously you have to produce W2s or income source as a part of the lending application, how do those other things factor in? So if I’m someone that’s got substantial reserves and I can bring more down but perhaps I don’t have as high of a credit score like how will that impact or do some of these weigh more heavily than others?
[0:13:20.5] TU2: It does. I mean, there’s different types of products out there so everything, there is different programs we have, different loan sizes, all sorts of things, so everyone’s different. So for example, we have loans for lower credit score, people with lower credit scores. I mean, FHA loans for example, which is a government backed loan, we can get pretty low credit scores approved for that with just three and a half percent down.
Now, there is high PMI with those loans, right? There’s very high PMI and then rates can be affected by your credit scores as well and then, we have loans for people that have lots of money and don’t show income, which is fairly common with business owners, right? They have sold the business or I had a couple of pro-athletes that I’ve worked with over the years that in between contracts and they’ve made a lot of money but they don’t have an employer right now.
So and there’s programs available for them. So not to get into too much of the granular but there is different options out there for different people. I would say the key though is the ability to repay. So it’s hard to say now, for example, the product we offer to pharmacist, we have minimum credit score of 700. I really can’t deviate from that because that’s a program guideline for that particular product but a conventional loan through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac has, I mean, I can go down and do a 620-credit score with that which is pretty low.
But if your rates are going to be affected by that, you’re going to – may have to put more down than you would like to and there is going to be a give and take. So it’s viewed a little differently, depending on situations.
[0:14:50.4] TU1: Yeah and I think you just highlighted there why this is not a cookie-cutter approach, right? I mean, everyone’s credit situation’s going to be different or income’s going to be different, obviously, the area in which they’re buying a home is going to be different, what to bring down, the reserves, the type of loan product name to pursue could be different so I think really have any good understanding of those and working with a wonder that can walk you through those really important, because it needs to be a custom decision to your personal situation.
Tony, I want to talk for a moment, you mentioned obviously the idea that yes, you know, what the bank approves is one variable but also, you know, that may or may not mean that it fits in with the other financial goals and I think that’s really important but you and I have talked about this before in the show but the bank isn’t’ considering one’s list of financial goals in the home buying decision, right? They may not be thinking about, “Well, are you on track for retirement or are you not? You know, how are we addressing the student loan repayment plan?”
So obviously is a part of the broader financial plan, we need to be thinking about that overall monthly budget, that overall housing expense and how that fits in and allows us or does not allow us to be able to progress and achieve with other financial goals. So again, we’re going to have to play by the rules of the bank of course but ultimately, we need to be setting our own budget. So with that in mind, I want to talk through other costs that folks need to consider.
So we mentioned already principle, interests, taxes and insurance. So those are four things that we need to be thinking about but in this market that we’re in right now, one of the things that I’m going to talk about is just the amount that someone might have to be bringing to the table and yes, down payment is going to be one part of that but I know in our area, we’re seeing a lot of waving of appraisal gaps which could mean that more cash needs to be brought to the table by the buyer.
So can you talk to us about what is that in terms of the appraisal gap waver and why we’re seeing that play out in the market that it is and how that can obviously impact how much money somebody has to bring to the table.
[0:16:46.6] TU2: Yeah, absolutely. So, let’s address that and we could talk a little bit more about how things may evolve here but I think the appraisal gap, you know, we’re still seeing that in many markets around the country. I mean, there’s a lot of high demand markets and we haven’t built enough homes the last 10 to 15 years, so that’s why we’re in this position that we’re in and builders can’t keep up with because of obviously the tight supply chain, it’s taking longer to build and it’s harder to build.
So the appraisal gap is tricky because, if you agree to this, right? I’m going to bring this, you basically, have to have the catch, right? To fill the gap, so if the price of the home is $400,000 and you have this waver and it appraises for 350, well, the bank’s going to use a 350, right? 350 value. The lender has to uses the appraised value and you know, let’s say we’re going to lend you 5 percent down. It was a 400, now it’s 5 percent down and 350, so you’re putting 5 percent down off 350, plus, the 50,000 gap that you agreed to with the seller.
So you really have to plan ahead and look at how much cash you have if you agree to that situation. Now sometimes, it will appraise in that you don’t know, it may come in okay but I would definitely heed your realtor’s advice if they think they may not, right? Because there could be a change. You know, one of the things that we’re looking and at every market’s different so you can’t speak to every single city in the country but on average, there’s a lot of this happening around the country but a little bit of a pause with help, right?
I think if we could get, you know, instead of seeing double-digit price increases for homes, if we got mid-single digits would be healthy right? You know, if you got a 5 percent, 6 percent appreciation on your home and you are putting 5 percent down, you’re getting an unbelievable return on your money and you are getting – you are not in such a bidding war crisis that we’re in now but I am hoping that will kind of happen and will normalize a little bit.
But I would just be really careful about what you agreed to when you are buying now. I am very cautious about waving inspections and things like that. I just think if you can get anything in, plugged in, it just protects you and you have your eyes open and if there is, if you have to agree to something like a waiver, just make sure you have enough time to get your inspections done so you know every – at least you know the house is in good shape.
There is nothing to worry about there and if there is a little bit of a value change then I hate to say it, but the reason you are agreeing to that is there’s other buyers out there waiting to buy it too. So there is going to be a lot of demand for real estate for quite some time until you see inventory levels rise.
[0:19:23.6] TU1: Yeah and I think that’s the concern, right? You’re set and done, I am not in the market you know, for a home in the moment but especially for first time home buyers it’s an exciting, it’s an emotional process and in a seller’s market where we are seeing a lot of bidding wars, I think there is just caution that we need to use when you look at waiving appraisal gaps, waiving of inspections and some of that as well because ultimately again, you know as we talk about often on the show, you know home buying is a really important part of the financial plan but it is one piece of the puzzle, right?
So we got to make sure that we can enter that home, we can enter that situation with confidence that we’re able to move our other financial goals forward. We were just talking before the show, I mentioned that Tim Baker and I were looking at property here in the area that it was listed around 530 and it ended up selling for an all cash offer at 650 and that was an example where appraisal is going to come in around that 530 points.
So that means in that case, that’s someone is going to be bringing in over a $100,000 of cash to the table. So that is another thing is we talk about affordability of home, if you find yourself in that position even if it’s a smaller amount, right? Five or $10,000, we got to factor that in on top of the down payment and on top of the other expenses that relate to purchasing that home.
[0:20:39.8] TU2: Absolutely. You have to run your numbers on your reserves and how much cash you have if you agree to something to that effect.
[0:20:46.8] TU1: Tony, I think it’s interesting the trickledown effect of this economically, right? We’re seeing rent prices here in Columbus, which I think is happening nationwide are going through the roof and obviously that presents a challenge for many folks. The other thing I am seeing recently, actually I heard an ad this morning, it was a window company here in Columbus that was running an ad basically playing on this saying, “Hey, instead of moving because of the market that we’re in, now is a great time to upgrade your home” right?
So you know, I think that we’re seeing this rising level of cost, some people are thinking about making an upgrade or finishes to their home, windows, remodel their kitchens, basements, whatever and again with the supply chain issues, I mean it is really hitting people I think in all different areas. So certainly a challenging time and yes, there’s appreciation there but having to see that offset by some cash flow pinches that can happen in the moment.
[0:21:34.9] TU2: Right, yeah absolutely.
[0:21:37.1] TU1: Tony, I want to go a little bit deeper into, you know, we talked about principle interest taxes and insurance. So again, as we think about affordability of the home, we talked about the percent down and that may need to be more because of the market that we’re in especially, we find ourselves in a waving of an appraisal gap situation and so the other thing I want to hit on here is that assuming somebody chooses a fixed loan and we’ll talk about the pharmacist home loan product here in a moment.
You know, that principle and interest is going to be fixed over the life of the loan but one of the things that they need to consider and I’ve lived this firsthand is that taxes and insurance are not fixed, right? So we need to be thinking also about what is variable going into the future and I don’t know markets where taxes are going down. So our taxes are going up, my home owner’s insurance has gone up overtime.
So you know, hopefully, we have income increases that will go up overtime but we’re not always seeing that for pharmacists. So we need to be thinking about other expenses that could rise overtime and it’s not just in this moment, what’s the percentage of my take home pay that I am going to allocate to my home but how might that go up overtime as taxes increases, an insurance increases and then obviously, there’s other things to consider like HOA fees or upkeep or maintenance of the property.
All types of things that again, home investment is a great thing but we want to make sure that we are entering into that with financial confidence.
[0:22:59.3] TU2: Absolutely and that is a really good point. I mean so let’s say, we obviously fixed the rating, we fixed the payments in for principle and interest on the note but there is that variable nature of taxes and insurance and depending on what part of the country you live in, insurance can move quite a bit. If you are in Southern Texas or Florida, taxes or insurance can be a wild card sometimes.
But I would say this, I mean, I think it’s important that you check on insurance maybe every year, right? Whether it is your auto insurance and the home owners, just see what’s out there because there is new carriers coming to market and sometimes they will give you discounts for your policies and one other thing too that I see banks and mortgage companies require a certain amount of coverage.
That way your house is covered if it were to burn down or tornado damage or whatever it might be but one thing I do see, sometimes people overcommit on personal property. So make sure your insuring what you need. If you have a lot of personal property, clearly you can make sure you have the coverage but lenders don’t care about that. You could put it to zero and that wouldn’t be an issue for a lender.
So if you are really trying to reduce your cost, that’s one way to do it too is look at like the personal property terms in your insurance policy and your house insurance policy.
[0:24:15.0] TU1: That is a great call Tony. I would encourage folks if they haven’t done this in a while, you mentioned kind of looking at this regularly and even just pulling out the policy and looking at the line items, making sure you understand what those things are and I went through this recently. One of the challenges out there if you are trying to shop around policies is getting the apples-to-apples comparison.
So what I found to be helpful was as I was getting policy quotes, I basically provided the coverage amounts based on my current policy and what the categories were to try to get as close of a comparison as I possibly could and then that’s also true on auto insurance as you are looking at different carriers and options but great suggestion, a reminder to make sure that we’re taking a fresh look at that over time.
[0:24:54.9] TU2: Yeah and I think that could help maybe to some degree alleviate some of that movement but clearly over time insurance costs are going to go up, especially with inflation. You know that’s affecting insurance premiums because it costs more to replace property, right? So that’s going to affect the cost of insurance. Property taxes, you know with property values going up overtime, in some states they’re capped, in some states they’re not, right?
So you have – we got to be careful about this too Tim because every place is different but like for example in Florida, you have the homestead exemption and the save our homes cap, which essentially caps how much your tax basis value can go up every year and that really helps preserve the tax that you are paying every year. It can only go up a little bit so it is not a big deal in owner-occupied homes.
Now, if it is not owner-occupied, second home investment property, it’s free lunch basically. You know the county could do whatever it needs to do but every place is a little bit different. Some other states have similar measures and that can help kind of keep in check how much your taxes go up every year and generally taxes are going to rise with the property values increasing.
Now, the flipside is, I remember in ’08 and ’09 when my property values went down, my taxes went down, which is – you know, that was one benefit I guess of that side although I don’t want to relive it but you know that was a – you know, taxes generally go down if the county assesses your property at a lower amount and the other thing that I find too is that many of the municipalities are very, very generous in how they value your property.
Because I will see some of the tax bills and they are coming in well under the market value and their tax estimate is well under. So it may not be the same everywhere in the country and every state has different varying degrees of taxes. So I’ll just say one thing like our audience in New York, taxes are really high there, right? Even in Florida, they’re pretty high but you know I have seen some other states where they’re not bad at all. So just different states can vary on how much those taxes are.
[0:26:50.9] TU1: Good call out Tony that it is different everywhere as well as obviously there is a situation where it may go down and I am coming from the bias of only living in a period I’ve bought my first home in 2009 and you know, didn’t have a home when that happened and events were all fine.
[0:27:06.5] TU2: You bought at a good time.
[0:27:08.0] TU1: Yeah, that’s right. I’ve been spoiled by only living in a state of appreciation on the home side. So I want to shift gears and talk about the pharmacist home loan product that you offer through First Horizon. You know, anytime we do a webinar presentation that includes home buying Tony, this continues to be the most common question, the number of questions I get in terms of volume around the pharmacist home loan product.
I think it is becoming even more timely, it’s always been timely but more timely because as we see a rise in the purchase price, if folks are thinking, “Do I need 20 percent down?” or something traditional like that obviously, that becomes more of a barrier as the market does what it’s doing. So talk to us about the pharmacist home loan product offered by First Horizon. You already mentioned the minimum credit score of 700, who is this for? Who is not for? What does it mean in terms of down payment, purchase price of a home? Give us the overview.
[0:28:02.2] TU2: So as we discussed, 700 is that minimum credit score. You know clearly, you have to be a licensed pharmacist. We couldn’t give it to just anybody. You know, some of the attributes of the product is you just don’t have to put much down and if you are a first-time home buyer, you are looking at putting 3 percent down. You’re eligible to put 3 percent down. If you have owned before, you only have to put 5 percent down.
There is no mortgage insurance, so that is a really big driver to benefit as you have no MI and I find that with 5 percent down, the rates are every bit as good as someone came to me that was not a pharmacist for 20 percent down and sometimes better actually, an eighth better. So you get it sometimes a little bit better rate as well and the waiver of the PMI is a big thing. There is a loan cap, those ties-wise.
We won’t go above 647, 200 as far as loan size. I have had a lot of pharmacists come to me with purchase prices of like 680 and they put 5 percent down and they’re fine. You know, they are within that guidelines there. So it still gives you a good bandwidth of price but sometimes in more expensive markets like California, it can be tougher sometimes to meet that guideline. We only offer a 30-year fixed on the product.
So it is a 30-year fixed only, which I find is popular and then the other thing that’s a nice feature is there is no reserve requirement. You know, a lot of programs like this require that you have six months reserves for loans for specialist and this one does not have that and that’s a nice thing, no prepayment penalties. So it is a very clean loan. It doesn’t have a lot of concerns about it.
The other thing too is generally with student loans, it will use a lower factor than a normal conventional loan will if you don’t have an income base repayment plan in place already.
[0:29:46.3] TU1: Okay.
[0:29:46.9] TU2: So if we don’t know what your payments are, it will actually use a lower factor than like if we were to get it through Fannie Mae or something to that effect or FHA. That’s another attribute. I’ve noticed though Tim, most of the pharmacists that are applying, we’ve had a lot this year, a lot in the last few years seemed to have a payment in place. There is only a few here and there that don’t.
Yeah, so I find that kind of income base repayment is usually the driver or we just get a letter of what the payments are going to be and that tends to be the best way to handle things because those payments are generally a fraction of the balance now.
[0:30:20.9] TU1: That was my question Tony, you beat me to it especially because we’re still in this Federal administrative forbearance where there’s been a price on Federal loan payments now for over two years that’s going to continue through the end of August, if not extended further. So for folks that are listening that I would suspect many are not making payments, is that the case then you kind of projected out what the payment would be?
[0:30:39.9] TU2: Normally that’s the best way if they have an expense, a challenge, you know, if it’s close qualifying otherwise we use a factor of the balances that can sometimes cause the debt ratios to get out of line but sometimes it’s fine. So we use that factor too sometimes if there is not a payment being made but normally we just get that letter projecting what the payments will be and I found that that’s normally what we see.
But most people that come to us are already in that position but not everyone. We do have some that we use the factor onto.
[0:31:08.9] TU1: The most common question I get is, “Hey, tell me more what is the pharmacy home loan product? Why is it different, why might it be an advantage?” you obviously highlighted the points there. The second most common question I get, which you already addressed is, “Hey, that all sounds great but am I going to pay a higher rate?” and you kind of alluded to of course, for everyone’s situation it’s different.
But given the minimum credit threshold of 700 here and depending on the percent down, you know certainly it sounds like it can be competitive, in some cases it could be better. The third question I often get is, “Hey Tim, I am a resident. I am a fellow, I am a pharmacist but I am not yet earning that full income and so is this product eligible for me?” and I think, correct me if I am wrong, I think the answer is yes, you’re a pharmacist but you’re obviously going to run into some potential issues with that percentages because of that lower-income, is that correct?
[0:31:56.7] TU2: Yeah, that is going to be a real challenge to buy that level. You know, we typically because the income level is not where it needs to be unless you’re married and your spouse is earning a good living already and whatever field they might be in and that can change things, you know? I’ve had where the spouses of PA, a physician assistant or an attorney and they’re having a good income stream while the pharmacist is in training that can be.
So everyone is different through our point Tim but yeah, that would be a case where that probably qualifying for a loan, they’d have the ability to do it in that case but normally I find it is better to kind of wait fpr your training and you have that state license where you are going to be practicing in place.
[0:32:37.4] TU1: Tony, knowing that we’re at the time of year, so those that are doing residency fellowship that are wrapping up, you know typically they’re ending end of June, so they’re in this transitionary phase and I suspect many might be listening. So for those that are making the transition out where they’re going to be going from a resident or fellow income to that full pharmacist income where obviously things will improve financially, general rules of thumb in terms of like how many months do we like to see from a lending perspective where they are in that higher income state, so they evaluate potential timing of a home purchase.
[0:33:08.6] TU2: Tim, really month one we could help them. If they have an agreement and they are getting a W2 income, month one, we can help them. So they could close in month one, so right out the gate, you know, in July 1st if that is their first day, they could close. So they’d have the ability to close right away. So this product is not quite as flexible as our doctor products, which we’ll create.
Sometimes they’ll go out like over five months if you have a contract and stuff like that from your start date but –
[0:33:38.1] TU1: Oh really? Before.
[0:33:39.5] TU2: Yeah but it’s a little different program. This one, it will still allow you to close on day one. So they really could get under contract knowing where they’re going to start and be able to close right when they transition in.
[0:33:52.9] TU1: Okay, let me point our listeners too, we’ve got a page. If you go to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan, we’ll link to that in the show notes. Again, yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. We have a lot of information, five steps to getting a home loan. We go into a lot more detail about what we talked about here today and then from there, you can get more information in terms of applying for the pharmacist home loan product and getting in touch with Tony as well.
So Tony, thank you so much. As always, always appreciate the conversation and the expertise that you bring to the YFP community. So thank you so much for joining.
[0:34:28.5] TU2: Thanks for having me Tim. It’s always good hanging out with you here so I enjoyed it. Thank you.
[0:34:32.5] TU1: Thanks Tony.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:34:33.9] TU1: Before we wrap up today’s show, I want to again thank this week’s sponsor of Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast, First Horizon, previously IBERIABANK/ First Horizon. We’re glad to have found a solution for pharmacists that are unable to save 20 percent for a down payment on a home. A lot of pharmacists in the community have taken advantage of First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan; which requires a 3 percent down payment for a single-family home or a townhome and has no PMI on a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage.
To learn more about the requirements for First Horizon’s pharmacist home loan and to get started with the preapproval process, you can visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/home-loan.
[DISCLAIMER]
[0:35:14.3] TU1: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information of the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.
Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcasts is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward-looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.
Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.
[END]
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