Making the Financial Transition from PharmD to Resident
On episode 77 of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast, Tim Ulbrich, founder of Your Financial Pharmacist, interviews Dr. Michael Murphy, a 2018 PharmD graduate of THE Ohio State University College of Pharmacy and current PGY1 pharmacy practice resident in ambulatory care at Ohio State. Dr. Murphy served as the APhA-ASP National President from 2017-2018. In this episode, Dr. Murphy and Tim talk about his financial transition from student to resident, what he wishes he would have known financially during pharmacy school and how being involved in professional organizations has put him on the fast track to a successful career.
About Today’s Guest
Michael Murphy, PharmD is a PGY1 Pharmacy Resident in an Ambulatory Care Setting at The Ohio State University College of Pharmacy. Born in Columbus, Ohio, Michael attended Hilliard Davidson High School and then headed down the street to complete his undergraduate degree and attend pharmacy school at Ohio State. During his time at the College of Pharmacy, he found his passion in advocating for an enhanced educational experience for today’s student pharmacists and for the future of the profession. Michael focused on these passions through involvement in student organizations and has held several volunteer leadership positions where he served his peers and profession, including his term as the 2017-2018 American Pharmacists Association Academy of Student Pharmacists (APhA-ASP) National President. Michael is interested in pursuing a career in academia where he looks forward to training the next generation of pharmacists and advocating for the advancement of the profession.
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Summary
On this episode, Tim Ulbrich interviews Dr. Michael Murphy. Dr. Murphy went to Ohio State University and graduated from his undergraduate degree with no loans. He began taking loans out for his first year of pharmacy school and took out the maximum amount for four years.
Q: What would you have done differently then now that you know that borrowing the maximum amount isn’t the best option?
A: Dr. Murphy explains that he would have learned about budgeting, monitor your day-to-day spending and also shares the importance of not taking extra student loans out for vacations. After your first semester, you can figure out how much money you actually need instead of just continuing to borrow the maximum amount.
Q: What’s your strategy to make finances work well in marriage?
A: Dr. Murphy shares that communication, cutting costs where you need to, and working together to set fun goals helps are ways to help make your finances work well in a relationship.
Q: Did the indebtedness ever play a factor in deciding to continue your education/residency instead of getting a job right away?
A: Dr. Murphy said this definitely played a factor, but he has seen his mentors go through residency and be able to pay back their loans. He said that he looks at residency as an investment to move his career forward and knew that was the best choice for him.
Q: How are you deciding which repayment plan to choose?
A: Dr. Murphy says that originally he was very ambitious and chose the standard repayment plan for his loans. Now, he and his wife are working with a financial advisor to see what will make the most sense. They are going to switch to an income-based repayment plan and work on paying off other loans first. He has a goal of paying off his loans in 10 years.
Q: How did you make the decision to work with a financial planner?
A: Dr. Murphy said that he wasn’t familiar with student loan options, retirement or investments and thought that going to an expert was the best decision. They chose someone that other family members have used and they feel comfortable working with him.
Q: What tangible benefit do you feel like professional organizational involvement has played for you as a student but also in transitioning to residency?
A: Dr. Murphy said that it’s important to think about what brings value to the money that is being spent. APhA is always fighting for the future of the profession so pharmacy remains relevant and a successful provider. APhA provides resources to help you prepare and practice at the highest level. The relationships that have been formed, although intangible, provide so much value.
Q: After joining a professional organization, what advice do you have for students and new practitioners to further their involvement?
A: Dr. Murphy suggests to take a small positive risk like applying for a leadership position or starting a new project that you are interested in. If you are unsure of how to get more involvement, ask.
Mentioned on the Show
- APhA
- YFP Episode 072: Investing Mind Tricks: How Behavioral Bias Affects Our Decisions
- YFP Financial Planner
- Start: Punch Fear in the Face, Escape Average and Do Work That Matters by John Acuff
- The Mayor of Castor Street: The Life and Times of Harvey Milk by Randy Shilts
- YFP and APhA Partnership
- Your Financial Pharmacist
Episode Transcript
Tim Ulbrich: Hey, what’s up, everybody? Welcome to Episode 077 of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Excited to have a special guest on today’s show, Dr. Michael Murphy, past president of APhASP, current pharmacy resident at the Ohio State University, excited to talk with him about his transition from student to resident. And obviously, now I just officially began my new job at Ohio State. So excited to be here alongside another Buckeye who’s been a Buckeye for a long time. So Dr. Murphy, welcome to the show.
Michael Murphy: Hey, Tim. Super excited to be here. Thanks for having me on the show.
Tim Ulbrich: So I’ve only been at Ohio State, Michael, for a week. And man, the Ohio State culture and energy and that traditions and the legacy, it’s no joke. It’s a lot of fun. And you’ve been there awhile. What — nine years now?
Michael Murphy: Yeah, I’ve been there for nine years. And you know, I don’t think they can get rid of me. I love being a Buckeye, all of the opportunities that it provides to me, my career, and of course, getting to go to those football games, that’s fun too.
Tim Ulbrich: Absolutely. I have to up my game when it comes to Buckeye gear. I’m lacking the Buckeye gear. So as I’ve gone into work over the past week and been in other people’s offices and been there for a Buckeye Friday, I’ve realized that I’ve really got to up my game in that area. So why don’t we start by just tell us a little bit about yourself, including your decision to enter pharmacy school. Why did you want to be a pharmacist in the first place? A little bit about your journey through the PharmD and then ultimately, what led you to choose and pursue the residency training and the path that you’re doing right now?
Michael Murphy: Sure. I’d be happy to. So I am Columbus, Ohio born and raised. I grew up in Hilliard, which is a suburb of Columbus. And while in high school, I started taking some science classes. I took chemistry. And I knew immediately that I loved science. Actually, this is kind of funny. I was the proud only member of the high school chemistry club.
Tim Ulbrich: Only member.
Michael Murphy: Yes. I was real popular in high school. Around the same time, I started volunteering at the Ohio State Wexner Medical Center. I had volunteered, I would take patients from their rooms to their cars when it was time for them to go home. And I just loved seeing these patients on their best day because they were finally getting to go home. So I knew in high school that I loved science, I loved health care, and I was trying to find this way that I could tie those two ideas together. And around the end of high school, my grandfather ended up passing away. And he had been a pharmacist in the Cleveland, Ohio area for about 50 years. And it’s kind of funny how I just learned more about him throughout the process of, you know, him passing away and learned more about the impact that he had made on his community and his profession. And I’ll never forget going to his funeral and seeing all these community members come out that I had never really heard about before, but he’d made a huge impact in their life as this local community pharmacist. And I knew right there that that was the profession for me. I wanted to be a pharmacist so I could make as big of a difference in my community as my grandfather had. So I knew from 16 that I was going to be this pharmacist. And I went to Ohio State with that in mind and stuck around for eight years, and here I am.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, and I love that story, Michael. I remember when you were in your national presidency of APhASP, talking a lot about finding your legacy and finding that place that you have in the profession. And hearing you link that back to the inspiration from your grandfather is such a cool story. And so you go into Ohio State — and for those that don’t know and while it’s changing right now, Ohio State is a 4+4 program, so you do four years of undergrad and you do four years of pharmacy school. Obviously, you mentioned that you’re in year nine with your residency. So when I hear eight years, I think, holy cow, we’re starting to think about student loans. This is obviously a financial podcast. So talk me through the financial journey. Did you have loans coming out of undergrad in a pharmacy school? And how did that transition work?
Michael Murphy: So I was really lucky in undergrad. My parents were able to help me significantly with my undergraduate tuition, so I did not have loans coming out of undergrad. But going into pharmacy school, I went through the first year of applying for the FAFSA and seeing that transition. It was pretty significant. And I immediately started to feel that burden, just knowing that this money was not mine. But I should be spending it. It was a weird transition. But now, going through pharmacy school, I took out the max that I could for those four years. And I definitely — there are some things that I wish I had done differently, now looking back. I’m glad for my experience, it was a very positive experience during the pharmacy school. But there was definitely things I could have done differently to help myself now that I’m in this financial situation that I am today.
Tim Ulbrich: So let’s talk about that for a minute because I think you brought up an important point that is very, very common that obviously the trend I think is typically to take out the maximum amount of student loans. I did, and I didn’t really think about it in the way I now reflect back on it, right? Which is just part of lessons learned. So obviously, that being one thing you might do. What advice would you have back for your P1 self, looking and saying, OK, I came out of undergrad, I’ve got no student loans thanks to the help of my parents. Now I’m entering into pharmacy school and kind of starting to escalate that indebtedness because of the borrowing the full amount. What would you have done differently in terms of borrowing that money or budgeting through that phase? And what are some things you wish that you would have known during that time?
Michael Murphy: Well, one, I would have introduced P1 Michael to the word “budget.” I think that would be one thing. I watched my money somewhat. But I wasn’t too concerned when it came to little things like going out for dinner or getting lunch, cups of coffee, the normal things that every student needs to do. And when I was thinking about some advice that I could give to a first-year student pharmacist, I would say definitely don’t do what some of my friends did, which they took their extra student loans and they went on these extravagant vacations. Never do that. But also watch your day-to-day because looking back now, that is some of the times that I spent the most money because I would say, “Oh, I’m too busy to go to the grocery store on the weekend. I have to study.” So I would end up having to go out for dinner multiple times a week and go out for lunch. And that stuff adds up quick. So watching the day-to-day can be a significant change in what you can do to help with some of this financial burden. And then after that first semester, you can figure out how much money do you really need? You probably don’t need that full amount. You can budget for yourself to make financial smart decisions now so you’re not regretting them in four years.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, absolutely. And I think a couple things there that really stand out to me, Michael. Obviously, the concept of the budgeting piece, of course. But also just the reality of the nickel-and-diming of those expenses, right? And I think we all feel this now. I mean, I’m thinking of the last time I just logged onto my Huntington checking account, and none of those charges look extravagant, but something here, something there, something there, and obviously, those add up over time. And then I hope for the students that are listening to the podcast, you know, they heard that message of reevaluating how much you really need because we’ve been preaching before on this show at anybody who will listen that when you’re borrowing money in school, obviously that is accruing interest. And then that’s going to capitalize when you graduate and you get to the point of active repayment, which you’re just coming up on now and we’ll talk about here in a minute. And so I think it’s for those that have gone through this situation, and you’re looking at yourself in a situation like Michael and somebody who has around the average indebtedness or myself, somebody who had a little bit more, that certainly you want to learn from the lessons and the actions that you took. But obviously, there’s only so much value in beating yourself up. But for those students who are listening, try to figure out what could I do differently right now? And how could I pivot to be able to make some different decisions? So let me transition this a little bit — my understanding, you got married during pharmacy school to your wife, Robin. Is that correct?
Michael Murphy: Yeah, we got married right after my P1 year. So we actually got married about four days after my first year of pharmacy school. And that was a rough transition in itself because the idea is you’re planning about a year to a year and a half before the wedding. And starting pharmacy school and that transition, things just got put off initially to winter break. And then winter break, we were like busy with holidays and seeing family, and things got put off again. And then all of a sudden, we were scrambling. But everything turned out perfectly, as it always does.
Tim Ulbrich: And one of the questions that I always like to ask any couple or anybody on the show that’s working together with somebody else — and obviously, your situation being unique that you got married during school and you’re adding somebody else’s financial picture into the mix. But for you and Robin, what works well for the two of you? I mean, when you’re hitting all cylinders with your finances and you’re doing this well — we all know that that’s not all the time or we’d be lying, right? — but when it’s working well for the two of you, what is the strategy to make that happen?
Michael Murphy: So I think the most important thing is communication. Working with your significant other to set goals that work for both of you so that you can help cut costs where you really don’t need to be spending money. So I’ll use the example of eating out. That’s an easy way to make a pretty quick transition to you just going to the grocery store, preparing ahead of time, setting yourself up for success so you’re not going out to lunch multiple times a week. But also working together on setting fun goals. So part of financial planning, at least for me, is not just about cutting back but using your extra funds in a responsible and valuable way for your own experiences. And I think that’s pretty important. So you’re not just cutting back, but you’re really using those extra funds for something that means a lot to you. So if that’s for me and Robin, that’s going out and exploring a local craft brewery or going to a local restaurant and doing the things that we love to do or taking a quick day trip or for Robin, who is a dairy farmer, going out and seeing some of her favorite cows and maybe putting in a bid at an auction for a cow.
Tim Ulbrich: That’s awesome. I remember — correct me if I’m wrong — but when you were explaining to me before you recorded of what Robin’s doing, you mentioned something like the dairy farm equivalent of like APhA from an association standpoint. Is that right?
Michael Murphy: Yeah. So she works on her parents’ dairy farm a couple days a week. But she also works for the American Guernsey Association, which is what I liken to the APhA for dairy farmers.
Tim Ulbrich: That’s awesome. I love that. So let’s talk about this transition. So you go through eight years of school, undergrad, PharmD, you come out with roughly the average indebtedness, a little bit less than that. And one of the questions I often get — and my previous job was working with students, thinking about how this financial piece plays into the career decisions that they make. And I can comfortably say I felt like it was rare five, six, seven years ago that many people were thinking about this financial piece in a significant way of impacting the decision they made on residency or no residency. But that seems to be changing a little bit as the indebtedness continues to grow. And so my question for you is did the indebtedness — obviously you decided to pursue residency — but did the indebtedness ever play a factor that you thought, eh, maybe I will or maybe I won’t do this because of that dollar amount and the debt you had, versus just going out and getting a job and starting earning an income?
Michael Murphy: Hmm. That’s a good question. I mean, it was definitely a factor. I didn’t put too much weight into it because I’ve seen so many of my mentors go through residency and take that year of investment in their future and into their careers. And they’re able to still pay off their student loans, and it’s not significantly contributing to any problems that they see in the future. But it was definitely a factor. And I guess it depends on the way that I think about residency. Some people think that, oh, you’re taking a pay cut for that year. I think of it as me paying for this experience. And for me, I want to make sure that if I’m paying the difference between what I’m making as a resident and what I would be making as a starting salaried pharmacist, that that experience is worth it for me for my growth and for a springboard for my future career. So I felt like that investment made sense for me. It doesn’t make sense for everyone, but it made sense for me and for my career goals. Now, the idea of not being able to start paying off my student loans as quickly and as hard as I would like to, that’s definitely been something that I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, especially as now I received my first notice from Nelnet, the company that is managing my student loans, saying that my first paycheck is due to them.
Tim Ulbrich: On your birthday, right? Happy birthday.
Michael Murphy: Yeah, it’s due on my birthday, which is just —
Tim Ulbrich: That’s cruel. That’s just cruel.
Michael Murphy: But I’ve seen some of my friends now that started just right off in the community, and they’re able to put more of their monthly salary to their student loans. And you know, it’s just a difference in what we’re able to contribute at this time.
Tim Ulbrich: Michael, one thing I love that you said that just hit me — and I’m going to use this as I talk to student pharmacists, and I wish I would have this mindset — is looking at the residency training year as something you’re paying for — and I love how you said basically, the difference. So if you take a pharmacist is making $100,000, just for an even number, and you’re being paid as a resident whatever, $40,000 is an even number, that you’re making that investment of essentially — one way of looking at it is saying, “I’m taking a pay cut.” The other way of looking at it is say, “I’m investing $60,000 toward this component that’s going to advance my career and the skills and the development of myself.” And I think that’s huge as a mindset shift, right? I mean, if you think of it that way, all of a sudden, it changes probably how you’re getting the most value out of that experience and from your preceptors and the mentorship and all of that. So I love that. And I hope that you’ll continue to shop that message to anybody that will listen because I think that can be such a game-changer for people to make sure they’re getting the most of that year, to look at that year as an investment. So you make this transition into residency and now, as you mentioned, here you are. Here you are in essentially November at the time of recording this, and you get that happy message that hey, grace period is up. And I always joke on the show, I feel like the grace period is anything but gracious because the interest is still accruing, but you don’t have to make payments. All of a sudden you have to make a payment, nonetheless on your birthday. How are you going about making the decision of which repayment option you’re going to choose? Because so many people get hung up, as we’ve talked about before on this podcast, making that decision. So how did you and Robin work through as you’ve had this time in the grace period to say, OK, once I go into active repayment, this is the best game plan for us?
Michael Murphy: So for me, when I initially went through exit cousneling, I was a little bit too ambitious and thought that, oh, I’m going to be making x amount of dollars per month, I will definitely be able to contribute much more than I actually can. So I picked, initially, one of the standard repayment models, which with my student loans is over $1,000 per month, which is just too significant for what I can currently pay on a resident salary. So I’m now going through the process of working with Robin and working with our financial advisor, which is one of the first things that I did once graduating. I can’t advocate that enough to students is to find a financial advisor, start getting advice early on. But working with our financial advisor to find out which repayment plan would make the most sense for me, especially this first year in residency. And we decided an income-based repayment model would be the one that makes the most sense for us because right now, we can spend some time focusing on some of our other debt, like Robin’s car loan, like Robin’s student loans that are a little bit smaller. And then we can be paying off some amount to my student loans as well. And then eventually, we will be able to bring all of these payments together and be putting our full force towards my student loans. The idea that was shared with me is this idea of a snowball that you’re slowly building up steam over time and as the snowball rolls down the hill, it builds and builds and builds, and eventually, you’re putting your full force towards this one student loan.
Tim Ulbrich: I like that. And so what I heard there is essentially, you had jumped out of the gates and said, “OK. I want to do the standard repayment, the 10-year repayment.” The reality of that, of course, is a big payment if we’re looking at let’s say $150,000-160,000 of student loans, resident salary. So then you took a step back and said, OK. For you and Robin, what are the other financial goals you’re trying to achieve, what other debts are you trying to pay off? How much income do we have in our monthly budget that we’re working with? And then obviously, that led you down the path of one of the income-driven plans. And it sounds like you’re still kind of working through which one of those. Is it PAYE? REPAYE? Is it one of the IBR plans? The old IBR? The new IBR? But I know for many — and I’m guessing this is the thought for you as well — that that is a floor, but then obviously, as time goes on, you can of course make extra payments if you decide to in the income-driven plans. Is that the thought you have?
Michael Murphy: Yeah. Unfortunately, I am still very ambitious. And I think that my biggest goal would be to have these paid off in 10 years. And I know that’s probably unrealistic, but I believe in stretch goals.
Tim Ulbrich: Yes.
Michael Murphy: If you shoot for the stars, you may not get to the stars, but you’ll probably get a lot farther than you would have if you’d aimed low. So I figure I’m going to aim for 10 years, get everything paid off, and if it ends up being 12, hey, at least it’s better than 20.
Tim Ulbrich: So Michael, my prediction — just knowing you and working with other people — my prediction is it’s going to be 5 or less for you. And I think that’s why I think that’s going to happen is as I’m sure you’ve talked with other people, I know I experienced this myself, once you start catching the fire of actually seeing that snowball rolling down the hill and getting some momentum, you just get fired up about making it happen quicker, and it impacts how you make other decisions. So certainly no guarantees, but we’ll touch base and kind of follow the journey. But that’s my prediction here is 5 years or less. But I like what you said there about the timeline. So you did mention, which is interesting because not many new graduates choose to work with a financial planner or financial advisor. And I know many new grads, myself included when I graduated, struggle with evaluating the benefits of what that planner can provide versus obviously the investment in doing that and engaging that relationship. So how did you and Robin make the decision that for you, it was best to pull the trigger to invest in and purchase in terms of the value of working with a financial planner?
Michael Murphy: So for me, I mean, this is going to be showing a little bit about myself, I guess it came down to my naivete. I wasn’t too familiar with some of these different student loan options that I could choose between and also just this idea of investing in my future and in a retirement plan and trying to set up some of our investments. I’d always heard this idea that you need to start early, but that’s kind of where the advice ended. I didn’t really know where to go from there to start early. So I figured that I should probably reach out to someone that has more experience than me, just like how our patients come to us for advice on their medications, I figured I should probably go to the expert for advice on what to do to set myself up for success. So that’s the reason that Robin and I reached out to someone that had worked with members of our family before to help them plan for their finances. It was someone that we knew and trusted and we knew that we would feel comfortable with. And we reached out to them, and our first visit was very positive. They talked us through what the next six months are going to look like and what we can do to help start paying off our student loans and at the same time, start investing in our retirement and 40 years down the line and what we want our future to be. And I thought that was interesting because initially, I was just going to think about my student loans. But if we start investing now, we’re going to see significantly more benefits later on than if we waited. So I thought all of that advice was really impressive. And it gave me a lot of confidence that I made the right choice to reach out to someone for help.
Tim Ulbrich: I really appreciate your maturity for you and Robin. I feel like — as probably other new grads can relate — I felt like coming out of school at 24, and even though I had $200,000+ of debt, I felt like I liked the topic enough and want to learn about it that I’ve got this myself. And the piece I forgot and it took me awhile to realize is that so much of this, especially for new practitioners, is so complicated with all these moving pieces and parts. But also, so much of this is so behavioral that even if you have the knowledge and especially I think in a situation with a spouse to have a third party help work through a financial plan can be incredibly powerful and keep you accountable in that plan, even if you have the right knowledge. Ultimately, so much of this topic can be behavioral. And Tim Baker and Tim Church just talked about recently about the behavioral biases that come with investing. And so we have been advocating over and over again on this show about the benefits — and while it may not be for everyone — what you should look for, questions you should ask to make sure you’re working with somebody that has your best interests in mind. YourFinancialPharmacist.com/financial-planner, we’ve got lots of information that will help you hopefully find and ask the right questions to be working with somebody that we think will help you holistically and comprehensively work on your financial plan and not just focus in on one piece. And I like what you said there, Michael about obviously, it’s just much bigger than just one part, whether that be student loans, investing or any part of the plan. So finally, I want to shift gears and talk about your involvement in professional organizations because obviously, you had a very notable role as the national president of APhASP and for those that don’t know, again, correct me if I’m wrong, Michael, APhASP I believe is 22,000+ members strong. Does that sound about right?
Michael Murphy: So depending on the year, we usually hang out around 30,000 members.
Tim Ulbrich: OK. I’m underestimating. So incredible number of student members, all colleges across the country. Obviously, a very highly sought-after position. And in my opinion, the office of the president of APhASP is a reflection of really the cream of the crop of students across the country that are seeking this position. So first of all, congratulations and kudos on getting selected for that position. I know I got to see you kind of work throughout that year and had a chance to have you on campus at NeoMed and visit with our students, which I know you provided them a lot of inspiration. And so one of the first questions I want to ask you is, what tangible benefit — and I’m sure there’s more than one here — but what tangible benefits do you feel like professional organization involvement has played for you, both as a student, but also in this transition because I know I hear from many new practitioners, they struggle with the tangible benefit of the membership. And they’re purely looking at maybe the cost of joining and can’t necessarily see how that’s going to play a role in their professional development or other areas. So what did that mean for you as a student and mean for you as you’ve made this transition into residency?
Michael Murphy: So for me, now I think that is a very important question because we need to think about what brings value to the money that we’re spending. I think that’s what is so important about this podcast is thinking about what we are spending our money on and making sure that it is all of value. And one of those valuable experiences that I always know that I will spend money is my membership to APhA. And that’s because it brings value to me when I was a student, it brings value to me as a new practitioner, and it’s going to bring value to me throughout my time as a pharmacist. And that’s because APhA is constantly fighting for the future of the profession to make sure that the pharmacist will always be a relevant and accessible healthcare provider. So for me as a new practitioner, some of the tangible benefits that I have been able to get are resources. So it can be overwhelming all of a sudden going from this shift, from student where you have this safety net to the pharmacist. And it can be scary of all of a sudden thinking that, whoa, I am the last line of defense. I need to make sure that I am as skilled, confident, as possible so that I can take the best care for my patients. And I think that APhA, through their practice division, provides a great level of resources so that you can practice at the highest level of your potential. Additionally, I know that some of the resources that you can gain through attending their conferences are out of this world. I just went to the MP Day of Life for the first time in July in Washington, D.C., and I learned about this woman’s health initiative out of Indiana, and we listened to a woman’s health pharmacist and learned about some of the different resources that they use in their practice to ensure that they’re using the best oral contraceptives for their patients. And I took that resource and I use it just about every day in clinic, where I’m getting questions from different physicians, asking which oral contraceptive do I pick? There’s so many different ones with different ideas. Which one should I use? And it’s nice having this resource that I was able to get because I attended an APhA conference. And then I mean, the tangible benefits, I can go on and on. But for me, some of the greatest value is in the intangible — the relationships that I’ve been able to form with my friends going back from 5-6 years ago when I first started getting involved in APhA to the relationships that I’m forming every day with different APhA members. And one of the things that is nice about APhA is not just health systems pharmacists or community pharmacists or managed care pharmacists. It’s everyone. And you can really find different ways that you can get to know pharmacists from across the spectrum so that you can find out ways that you can help them, and they can find ways to give back and help you in your career.
Tim Ulbrich: Yeah, that’s great stuff. I couldn’t agree more. And I had the opportunity to serve as our chapter advisor of APhASP at Neomed and, you know, what I always heard over and over again is there’s a hesitancy from some students to jump in. But once they jumped in, they got involved in the meetings, they attended a national meeting, maybe a mid-year meeting, they got involved in advocacy — once they saw it, you know, and it became real to them, obviously they caught fire. And that was so much fun to watch. And the follow-up question I have for you is I think we have many students and practitioners that are listening that are thinking, OK, maybe I’ve joined an organization before, but I didn’t go anywhere beyond that. And so they didn’t necessarily see the value in continuing that membership. So outside of, of course, making that initial decision to join, what advice would you have for students or new practitioners to then further get involved so they can really experience the value of their involvement?
Michael Murphy: So I think one of the best things that you can do is to take a small positive risk. And if that risk is you saying that you’re interested in running for a leadership position, let’s say one of the new practitioner network standing committee applications that are going to be due on Dec. 1. Take that small positive risk. If you want to get more involved, you can do it. Take that risk. If you’re a student pharmacist, and you’re saying that “I want to make a difference in my community,” start a new patient care project that follows your passion in your community and reach out to your chapter executive committee to find ways that you can get involved and make a difference out in the community. There are so many ways that you can get involved, but what you need to do is ask. Reach out to your local leaders or to your leaders within the new practitioner network, and find out ways that you personally can get involved. I just heard a interesting quote from one of my preceptors the other day. And I think it’s just perfect. And the quote was, “A hungry person with a closed mouth never gets fed.” So the idea is if you don’t ask for food, you’re not going to get fed. You’re not going to get fed with what you need. But if you reach out, you ask for what you need, then you will see results immediately. So reach out to your local leaders, reach out to the new practitioner network, the new practitioner advisory committee, and they can give you the resources that you need to get involved more, get that full value from your membership.
Tim Ulbrich: I love that. It reminds me of one of my favorite books I read a couple years ago called “Start” by Jon Acuff, and it’s that idea of taking that idea, taking that risk and that next step and inevitably, any time you do that, the next door opens and it keeps going from there. And I think it’s just part of that mindset that you spoke of earlier. OK, we’re going to finish up the show and have some fun. We’re going to put Dr. Murphy on the hot seat. I’m going to give four questions in a rapid-fire format. Quick question, quick answer. So first question I have for you, Dr. Murphy, the greatest opportunity you feel like we have as a profession right now here in 2018?
Michael Murphy: I think our greatest opportunity as a profession is to realize the impact that we can have out in our community. I believe that the future of pharmacy is in the community and is a mixture between the community pharmacist and an ambulatory care pharmacist, working almost as a primary care pharmacist. But we need to advocate for ourselves to our patients and our legislators so that we can make a difference in providing preventative care for our pharmacists.
Tim Ulbrich: What do you think is the greatest threat that is facing our profession right now?
Michael Murphy: The greatest threat, that is a good question. For me, I think the greatest threat is feeling content, feeling like this is as great as it can be. I always know that any situation can be better if we have an innovative stage of mind and we realize that through hard work today, we can see positive results in the future. We just need to get to work today. So I think our biggest threat is just feeling content. But I know that we can overcome that if we get to work today, and we will see results tomorrow.
Tim Ulbrich: What’s one step that those are listening can take to help advance the profession of pharmacy?
Michael Murphy: Reach out to another healthcare professional or to your patient and ask them to write a letter to their local legislator about the impact that pharmacists can make in their lives. And this will show that pharmacists don’t just make an impact, and pharmacists aren’t just fighting for themselves, but other members of the healthcare team and their patients can see the impact of pharmacist-provided care. And that will help advance pharmacy on a state level and the national level.
Tim Ulbrich: Awesome. My last question is I know you’re a learner. So what are you reading these days, either for fun or even to help develop yourself further?
Michael Murphy: Sure. So one of the books that I’m reading right now, and I feel like I’ve been reading this for awhile because residency sure is busy is the biography of Harvey Milk. And he was the first openly gay city legislator of a major city in San Francisco back in the ‘70s. And it’s really interesting reading about how this person fought against all the odds. He fought against all these people that were saying that he didn’t deserve to be a leader, but he knew in himself that he was a leader. And he didn’t listen to those people that were trying to tell him the type of person that he needed to be. He listened to himself. He listened to that voice inside that was saying that he should go out and make a difference in his community. So I love reading biographies because I love reading about how great people became great. And it reminds me of this idea that I once heard from one of my favorite professors — that if I read about how great people become great, maybe someday I can be great. And that’s what I strive for every day.
Tim Ulbrich: I love that, Dr. Murphy, and thank you so much for coming on the show today and for being an inspiration for me and many others as well and, of course, for your commitment to the profession of pharmacy. I really do appreciate it and think many listeners are going to get great value from today’s episode.
Michael Murphy: Thanks for having me, Tim. It was a ton of fun.
Tim Ulbrich: So before we wrap up today’s episode of the podcast, I want to again thank our sponsor, American Pharmacists Association.
Sponsor: Founded in 1852, APhA is the largest association of pharmacists in the US with more than 62,000 practicing pharmacists, pharmaceutical scientists, student pharmacists, and pharmacy technicians as member. Join APhA now to gain premier access to YFP facilitated webinars, financial articles, live events, resources, and consultations. Your membership will also allow you to receive exclusive discounts on YFP products and services. You can join APhA at a 20% discount by visiting pharmacist.com/join-now and using coupon code ‘AYFP18’. For more information about the financial resources we offer in partnership with APhA, visit www.pharmacist.com/yfp
Tim Ulbrich: And one last thing if you could do us a favor, if you like what you heard on this week’s episode, please make sure to subscribe to in iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to head on over to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/ where you will find a wide array of resources designed specifically for you, the pharmacy professional, to help you on the path towards achieving financial freedom. Have a great rest of your week!
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