A Non-Traditional Pharmacy Path From Pharmacist to Software Engineer to Entrepreneur
Derek Borkowski, PharmD, founder and CEO of Cosmas Health and creator of the Pyrls app, talks about how and why he built the Pyrls app, what problem he was trying to solve, and some of the challenges he faced in the early days of being an entrepreneur.
About Today’s Guest
Derek Borkowski, PharmD is the Founder and CEO of Cosmas Health. His background includes experience in community pharmacy, digital health, and the pharmaceutical industry. He is a pharmacist and the software engineer of Pyrls.com, a drug information website and mobile application for clinicians and student-clinicians. Additionally, he continues to practice community pharmacy. Derek is a 2018 Doctor of Pharmacy graduate from the University of Minnesota.
Episode Summary
Community pharmacy and digital health are two spaces that are finally starting to intersect. Here to talk to us about his non-traditional path in pharmacy that provides this double expertise is Derek Borkowski, Founder and CEO of Cosmas Health and Creator of the Pyrls App, a drug information website and mobile application for clinicians and student clinicians. In this episode, Derek shares his pharmacy story and how he found himself in the interesting position of combining his pharmacy degree with technology to better serve the pharmacist community at large. Derek shares how and why he built the Pyrls app, what problem he was trying to solve, and how he was able to see that problem while working as a community pharmacist. You’ll also hear about some of the challenges he has experienced in his early days as a pharmacy entrepreneur. Derek shines a light on useful concepts for pharmacist entrepreneurs, like skills stacking and the regret minimization framework. Derek also has some advice for other would-be entrepreneurs on the need for pharmacists who can embrace programming skills like data analytics as well as opportunities available under the umbrella of digital healthcare. Derek shares the key to staying motivated when things are slow-moving.
Key Points From This Episode
- Hear about the incredible support he’s received from the pharmacy community.
- Introducing today’s guest, Derek Borkowski, and what drew him into this profession.
- Hear about the moment he realized he wanted a more non-traditional path in pharmacy.
- The opportunity he found and pursued that pushed him into the tech space.
- Skill stacking and what can come out of an intersection of expertise.
- Derek shares one of the opportunities available under the umbrella of digital healthcare.
- How he first acquired and developed these skills and some advice from his experiences.
- How his love of technology sparked his entrepreneurship goals.
- About the regret minimization framework and taking the leap to start Cosmas Health.
- Some of the struggles he overcame in the first year.
- Finding the right lens to market to your audience.
- What makes Pyrls really stand out from the crowd as a resource to invest in.
-
Highlights
“I would just say, anyone who thinks they might be interested in learning some technical skills, it’s just as approachable as any other domain. You’ll find out whether or not that resonates with you.” — Derek Borkowski, PharmD [0:13:06]
“I very much subscribe to the philosophy of double down on your strengths and collaborate for your weaknesses.” — Derek Borkowski, PharmD [0:13:46]
“I’d do anything for my customers. They could call me any time of day. I’ll come pick them up if they are stranded on the highway..” — Derek Borkowski, PharmD [0:29:13]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode
- Cosmas Health
- Pyrls
- Follow Pyrls on Instagram: @pyrls.app
- Join the YFP Tax Waitlist
- MyMeds
- Khan Academy
- Connect with Derek Borkowski, PharmD on LinkedIn
- Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures
Episode Transcript
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:00.4] TU: Hey, everybody. Tim Ulbrich here, and thank you for listening to The YFP Podcast where, each week, we strive to inspire and encourage you on your path towards achieving financial freedom.
This week, I had a chance to welcome on to the show Derek Borkowski, Founder and CEO of Cosmas Health and creator of the Pyrls app. His background includes experience in community pharmacy digital health and pharmaceutical industry. He’s a pharmacist and software engineer of Pyrls.com a drug information website and mobile application for clinicians and student clinicians.
Some of my favorite moments from this show include talking with Derek about how and why he built the Pyrls App, what problem he was trying to solve and how he was able to see that while working as a community pharmacist and some of the challenges he has experienced in the early days as a pharmacy entrepreneur.
Now, before we jump in to today’s show, let’s pause to acknowledge that we are in the midst of tax season. Those tax forms are piling up and it’s time to have your tax filing and planning top of mind. Now, tax strategy and planning is an undervalued but very important part of the financial plan and YFP Tax is working hard to help pharmacy professionals optimize their tax situation. YFP Tax is opening up its services to file 2021 taxes for 125 pharmacist households this year. These slots are filling up quickly so don’t wait too long. If you’re interest in working with a team of highly trained tax professionals, head on over to yourfinancialpharmacist.com/tax. Again, that’s yourfinancialpharmacist.com/tax.
Okay, let’s jump into my interview with Derek Borkowski, Founder and CEO of Cosmas Health.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:01:39.0] TU: Derek, thank you so much for coming on the show.
[0:01:40.2] DB: Yeah, I appreciate it and I’m really excited for this chance, Tim, thanks.
[0:01:43.3] TU: I too am excited to have you on, talk about your entrepreneur journey, your business, how and why you got into the tech space of pharmacy, so we’re going to talk through that on this episode. Before we jump in and do that thought, let’s go back to the beginning, where did you go to pharmacy school and what drew you into the profession?
[0:01:58.7] DB: Yes, I think my pharmacy journey actually starts a little earlier than most, even definitively so I can remember back in as early as eight grade saying, “I want to be a pharmacist.” That’s because my mom actually worked at a community pharmacy and so when I would go and visit my parent at work, I was like, “Oh, this seems really cool, the pharmacist you work with were really nice.” I knew I was already getting interested in science and medicine so I remember, as early as 8th grade saying, “I think I want to be a pharmacist.”
Of course, that changes, most people wanted to be something when they’re 8th grade but then they just got interested in new and other things. For me, every step along the way through high school and then undergrad just kept reinforcing my interest in pharmacy and so originally, community pharmacy is what drew me into the profession and so, I went to the University of Minnesota on the Duluth campus and graduated in 2018.
[0:02:46.1] TU: 2018, graduate of University of Minnesota, you mentioned interest in pharmacy since 8th grade. And we’re going to get into throughout this interview, I would say, you’re on a very nontraditional path in pharmacy, based on what you’re doing with running and starting the business, also in more of that tech space of pharmacy. With that initial interest in community pharmacy and the profession, tell me more about when you realized a more non-traditional path as a pharmacy graduate was going to be the path for you.
[0:03:14.3] DB: Yeah, another thing on that point is I would say, if I had nine lives to live simultaneously, I would want to be a community pharmacist in one of them, an AM care pharmacist in another, and then right away, when I started pharmacy school, I remember even first semester seeing all the different things people were doing with their pharmacy degree that you don’t necessarily have exposure to before pharmacy school. So I got really interested in some of the non-traditional opportunity that I saw right away when we had medical science liaisons from pharmaceutical companies come and speak to us, other pharmacists doing unique things with their degrees.
It was actually – I remember one summer, I was between years of pharmacy school, I was reading Steve Jobs biography and maybe like I don’t know, impressionable or naïve as it sounds, I was just blown away by this, I was like, by the story of Apple. “Oh my gosh, they built these revolutionary products that have changed our society. Are people still doing this? Are people still starting technology companies?”
At that point, I had no background or knowledge about startups or technology companies but I was like, “Wow, is there any way that I can combine my pharmacy degree with technology?” Healthcare seems like an area that needs disruption and so, I started, during my third-year pharmacy school, I did an internship at a digital health startup company here in Minneapolis and you know, I can get more into what I did next but that was the kind of the beginning of my interesting technology.
[0:04:33.5] TU: Derek, I want to spend another moment there because I think in my conversation with many – I’m calling specifically the pharmacy students I’ll talk with, they might be interested in a specific area, the profession or perhaps want to pursue something that’s more nontraditional but aren’t exactly sure what step to take to pursue that interest a little bit further and I would argue, pharmacy school is such a great time where you can really put yourself in those scenarios and situations, learn more, often for a condense period of time, obviously not a longer-term commitment.
That internship you mentioned at digital health, tell us more about how you pursued and found that opportunity?
[0:05:08.8] DB: Yeah, I remember, I got really interested in technology and startups. The phrase, Silicon Valley, that didn’t really mean anything to anyone where I’m from, right? I didn’t really know anyone technology growing up but that in particular, I got really interested in so I started just looking up like, are there any startups here in Minneapolis where I was going to be based for the summer and I found this company called MyMeds, which is a digital health startup that’s focused on medication adherence.
I remember I was just coming back from Pittsburg where I was doing an internship over the summer and I drove right to the address that I found on the website for MyMeds. I was like, “Oh, there might be mailing address or maybe it’s an office, I guess I’ll find out.” I drove up there and just went and knocked on the door and there’s a few people in the office and somebody answered and I said, “Hi, I’m Derek, I’m a pharmacy student. I think I’m interested in technology, is there anything I can help with around here?”
Fast forward a few weeks later, the CEO of the company called me and said, “Hey, I heard you stopped by and left your CV. Yeah, I think we could use the help of a pharmacy student, when could you stop in next?” And then it went from there. Some advice I would give and I can go more into this kind of – what we think might be interesting is, Mark Henry and I believe, he was maybe the person who I had heard give this advice first which – he’s a famous Internet entrepreneur who helped invent the web browser.
He talked about this concept of skill stacking, how there’s always something unique to be found at the intersection of two really deep domain expertise. And I think with healthcare, it’s very – healthcare domain expertise as a clinician is very hard to attain because of just the amount of time it makes to become a practiced clinician. Like we as pharmacists, in my mind, even know, a kind of tongue and cheek joke that I’m a five out of 10 pharmacist, and I’m a five out of 10-software engineer and what that allows me to do are things that somebody who is a 10 out of 10 pharmacist but is zero out of 10 software engineer couldn’t do. Or someone who is a 10 out of 10 software engineer but is zero out of 10 pharmacist wouldn’t be able to do.
[0:06:59.8] TU: I love that, and that connects with me, right? Derek, as I think about my career journey in pharmacy, I would maybe give myself a four or a five out of 10 in the pharmacy side as well but I think about combining that with some of the financial education, passion and work that we’re doing. You put those things together and you know, I think that’s a great example of a unique combination and I would add, I love the concept of skill stacking. The thing I also don’t want to overlook and gloss over is just the initiative, right?
I’m reading right now Warren Buffett’s biography and he was famous for stopping by companies, walking in the front door that he was looking at investing and just to talk with people and learn more. The fact that you stopped by that office, introduced yourself and specifically said, “Hey, is there anything I can help with here as a pharmacy student?” That type of initiative, I would argue is certainly not common and I think something that I’d recommend folks consider and making some of those bold moves if they’re looking at trying to get themselves out there about other opportunities that might be there.
Skills, for sure, have to be there, willingness to learn but also, you know, that initiative to seek those opportunities.
[0:08:02.7] TU: Derek, for pharmacists that are listening that maybe they’re considering a career move or practice student pharmacist that are listening, we’ve talked for a moment here about the intersection of healthcare and technology. Can you talk just at a high level about the types of opportunities that may be out there for a pharmacist that is interested in this intersection of healthcare and technology?
[0:08:23.8] DB: Yeah, I would just say, I’ll start by saying that it’s a giant umbrella of different opportunities and one thing I frequently hear is when I’ll meet another pharmacy store or someone at a conference and start to talk about what I’m doing, they’ll be like, “Oh, you’re an informatics pharmacist or you’re an IT pharmacist?” I’m like, “Eh, well, close enough” but truly, what I’m doing right now is I’m sort of a technology entrepreneur, and I do software development but it’s kind of different than, it’s very different than I should say like, typical informatics, which also I guess is another area that needs to be unpacked.
I’ll just speak to one sort of specific area that I have had purview in that I think would be worth pharmacists taking time to learn about, that’s data analytics. I actually do, when it comes to learning programming skills or technology skills, I actually do website and mobile app development which is a little different. But in an area that’s adjacent to it, what I notice a ton of demand for and need in is pharmacists who can embrace programming skills in the areas of data analytics like learning SQL or Python or R, because there’s so much data in healthcare.
There’s so much domain expertise required to understand what’s happening. This is just kind of a micro example to illustrate the issues. I remember hearing about a large analysis that was done on a patient population and technically, Gabapentin is a calcium channel blocker, it’s how it works. In some drug lexicons, it’s a calcium channel blocker.
Anyway, they were doing this study on hypertension patients and you know, the data analyst didn’t have a healthcare background. Basically, everyone on Gabapentin was coded into this hypertension analysis and it’s such a simple thing that a pharmacist with just some data analytics skills would have been able to contribute greatly to.
That was just a small example of – there’s tons of demand in my mind, well, or at least that we in budding demand for pharmacists who understand how to work with data and are willing to interface with that at their current work places or certainly, hopefully there’s going to be more future linear pass towards future opportunities for pharmacists to utilize those skills.
[0:10:24.3] TU: Derek, short of someone pursuing like – I know, there’s informatics residency programs and everything’s out there. In lieu of someone pursuing that formal training opportunity, when I hear you talk about things like SQL and Python which are foreign language to me, and obviously as we’ll get to here in a moment – the work that you’re doing and building your own business. The learning curve of that seems astronomical.
And I can tell you’re obviously a self-initiator, clearly, you have a desire and passion to want to learn but what does that look like in terms of how you’ve been able to acquire and develop these skills, has that all been self-taught, has it been mentors, has it been training programs, tell us more about how you’re able to overcome that learning curve of the work that you are doing now and obviously, the gap that was there from the traditional pharmacy degree.
[0:11:07.5] DB: I’m so glad you asked this because it’s actually one of my favorite. This is one of my favorite things to harp on when I’m allowed to say and it wasn’t intuitive to me at first which yeah, some background on my domains here. It was while I was in pharmacy school. Once I started that internship at MyMeds, a mentor there he said to me, “Hey Derek, you really love giving suggestions on what sorts of features we should be adding into our website and app. You know, if you’re curious, I think one way that you could help our engineers better understand the ideas you’re giving them is that if you were to start learning some programming too so that you could have some of their language under your notes, have some of their vernacular.”
I was like, I thought that seemed preposterous like I don’t have a computer science degree. It’s really funny, I did take his advice and started learning just some really basic website development on the academy was the first website. I started learning them. Software engineering or programming, just the aforementioned skills I mentioned, they’re just like any other domain but I think they seem to us as pharmacists. I think it seems uniquely like opaque of an area to learn.
You know, no one bats an eye at a pharmacist getting a duress doctor degree or an MBA or MPH or all these – that’s perfectly normal. Programming? I was the same way. It’s actually no different and actually, it’s in my mind, it’s easier to learn. As clinicians, one of the main things I was concerned about was you can’t learn to be a clinician without actually going to school for it because you need to be able to see patients and so you need a system that allows you to train your clinical knowledge with patients.
Website development, programming, that takes place on a computer and so, you can start learning on any computer you’re on. That being said, I don’t necessarily think anyone – it’s like any skill where, if it resonates with you, that’s going to help you learn more, just don’t tell anybody Tim or to anybody listening. I actually really don’t like the business aspect of my business.
The books and the bottom, all that stuff, like the MBA knowledge of running this business. I don’t find it very interesting but I love programming. I would just say, anyone who thinks they might be interested in learning some technical skills, it’s just as approachable as any other domain and you’ll find out whether or not that resonates with you.
[0:13:14.2] TU: Yeah and Derek, your differential advantage is obviously the skills you’ve acquired, plus your degree in background as a pharmacist, right? I think about you as a business owner. Sure, as you’re getting started, a lot of that stress and work is going to fall on you but as you grow, that stuff you hire out, you probably already are.
What you bring is your differential advantage as a business and I think naturally, if we fast forward five years, like Derek isn’t in the weeds of any of that because your time spent and the impact you’re going to have on your perspective customers is going to be bringing your unique skillset, right now, worrying about the books and other things.
[0:13:46.5] DB: A 100%, I very much subscribe to the philosophy of double down on your strengths and collaborate for your weaknesses and so yeah, that’s totally how I view this as well.
[0:13:57.0] TU: Were you working as you’re developing, acquiring these skills, and we’re going to bridge that to the work that you’re doing right now on building Cosmas Health. But were you working as a community pharmacist alongside of this journey so you’re essentially side-hustling your way into the beginning of the business, tell me more about that?
[0:14:11.9] DB: Yeah, totally. So that’s another interesting story I think just how – well, I’ll just say, so many, even guest you have in this show, Tim, and yourself, so many of these fall into our current position, backwards, sideways, you know, I have no idea what the – one thing we need to solve is in the pharmacist profession is how to create more linear paths to non-traditional careers. But what happened with my mind is, I would say, I was actually – one thing I remembered doing my first few years of pharmacy school was taking part of the NCPA business plan competition.
Entrepreneurship was something that I think I was interested in actually. My dad and grandfather and uncles and aunts, they own a small business but I was around it, and I wasn’t the kid who is selling candy out of my locker or anything.
Really, it was when I discovered my interest for technology startups that I started to consider, “You know, I think I do want to start my own business someday,” but once that idea hits me is when I’ll start working on it. Yeah, after graduation in 2018, I knew I wanted to work full-time at a startup and so, but MyMeds, it didn’t quite work yet for me to work full-time there.
I started working full-time as a pharmacist at Walgreens and in my nights and weekends, I would still help out at MyMeds as much as I could but then after about six months, I was sort of able to reverse the roles. This is about December after graduation, I was now full-time as a product manager at MyMeds but then I was still a market pharmacist, afloat pharmacist at Walgreens just actually up until this last summer.
Throughout the course of 2019 is when I actually started to – in my nights and weekends program, the concept I had for Pyrls, which is the primary product that our business builds and what I’m working on today and so that was the beginnings of that transition.
[0:15:45.3] TU: That’s one of the reasons why I ask the question there because that’s one of the things I love about pharmacy, is the profession for those that maybe have an idea that they’re itching to pursue – there’s very few jobs out there that you can potentially work PRN and flex that maybe it’s full-time to start, maybe it’s eventually 30, 20, 15 hours, especially if you’re a great pharmacist, you have good relationship with your district manager in your stores, performing all that.
It can be a really good bridge and a darn good paying bridge as you’re looking at exploring other opportunities. You mentioned working full-time in the pharmacy, kind of part time nights and weekends on some of the business ideas and stuff and then obviously over time, they had flips. I think that’s a great example for others to consider.
Now, it’s one thing, Derek, to pursue a non-traditional career path and be willing to take that leap of faith in both learning and belief in yourself and to do that, hopefully as an employee where you earn a good wage. It’s a whole other thing to say I’m going to pursue this non-traditional career path and I’m going to own my own business, right?
I think that hurdle, for many people, it’s a big hurdle to get over for a variety of reasons. Tell us about what happened in 2019 that you said, “Hey, I’m going to start this company” Cosmas Health and how you were able to get over that hurdle to get started?
[0:17:00.9] DB: Yeah, it actually – as I mentioned, I had been sort of learning some programming skills as early as during the middle of pharmacy school but towards the end of pharmacy school, especially in my 4th year, just like learning programming, like website and app element became like an obsession. I remember very vividly going to rotations from seven to three or eight to four, coming home, taking a nap and then like coding for like four hours because it was the most fun thing I could ever think of doing.
By the time I graduated, I was a relatively competent web developer. In 2019, when I was still sort of thinking about ideas for starting my own business, I created Cosmas Health which is, you know, just as in Minnesota LLC, so I could do freelance web development work out of which I know you’ve talked to many other pharmacists on here who started their own. I recommend a new one as soon as you have any sort of thing you may want to do, form a business around it just to get yourself started, if other factors make sense regarding it.
I started, I created my own business that I was doing some freelance work out of but then I started building my own projects within that. Pyrls, which is the primary product that I build today is, it’s essentially like a digital version of those top 400 drug study cards, plus some other features we’re working towards building some sort of next generation drug information reference. Like the ones that we rely on today in practice.
And so the idea for it started, I was thinking about it while I was on fourth year. It was building a better reference for me to use there and so it was one of the projects I just started, just sort of hacking on in my nights and weekends as I mentioned and anyway, I started to get some traction with it to the point where – this was in the fall of 2019, I was pretty much like, “I need to go all in on this.” And so I basically planned where I still kept my position at Walgreens that I was one or two weekends a month, but then I can pick up shifts as needed if available.
In January of 2020, yeah, I just sort of – you know, I had some money saved up but you know, still had some huge student loans and you know big thanks to the support of now wife, kind of jumped out of the airplane without a parachute in January 2020, we had – I’d love to talk about some of the struggles of that especially in that first year with trying to build and grow curls but it was what I sort of use –
Again, anything, any quote that you attribute to anybody, I am sure was said by somebody else too but the person I saw mention this was Jeff Bezos. He talks a lot about this regret minimization framework he has where he is trying to make a decision, he says, “Am I going to regret, on my death bed, what am I going to think of this decision?” And so for me, it was like, “Can I picture myself at age 40 having not yet taken the leap to start my business?”
It’s like, “No, nope. No matter where I’m at with everything, you know I am young right now, I have some money saved up, I have some runway here.” And so in January 2020 is when I said, “All right, let’s do it, I’m going to go full-time on this business.” And so while still, as you mentioned, having the comfort of I am so grateful for the role I was able to have as a pharmacist at Walgreens while I was growing my business towards a place to be sustainable fully full-time.
[0:19:53.1] TU: I’m glad you mentioned, I have never heard that terminology, the regret minimization framework. Tim Ferriss talks about that concept, essentially the essence of that that was really critical for me and my own journey as well. He talks about a lot in terms of yes, what might you think looking backwards but also really trying to objectively call the fears that you have, and through that process you realize that many of the fears that you might have are not rational, right?
That’s really part of the process of really trying to put those onto paper and really looking at them as objective as you can. But Derek, my question is that you still made that leap. You eluded to savings but many pharmacists, even if they have savings, if they are looking at big student loan debt, perhaps there’s a family, you know, “I’ve got safer retirement, I feel all these competing pressures.”
You know, there is this known thing of a good six figure income and there is this unknown thing which has risk but also upside in a business. I want to dig a layer deeper of, even with a little bit of savings, how are you able to lean into that and feel comfortable and as you said, kind of flying out of the plane without a parachute?
[0:20:54.2] DB: Yeah, you know I think that for better and for worse, I’m a major optimist but also I tend to sort of think and plan for my life in really short-term terms. I was, you know, when I started full-time like I said in January 2020, I was like, “Well, we’ll see how this goes and we’ll re-evaluate it in three months and then I can make a decision from there.” And so like I mentioned, this is certainly a very personal decision but for me, there was no better time.
It was only going to get harder to make a riskier decision. The more savings saved up or the more I climbed the corporate ladder, it is was only going to get harder to risk or if they have children, it is only going to get harder to risk that and so that combined with as I mentioned, I was very lucky to be and to have a very supportive partner who actually kind of structured things financially was either through my business and/or working extra pharmacy shifts.
I had to make sure that I could cover half of all of our expenses and if I couldn’t do that, then I need to stop. And so that was sort of the rules of the game or for myself or the bounds of the risk I could take and so having a plan like that I think helps with the decision as well because you all right, have made this decision that we are going to play with these rules and then we’re going act next based upon what happens.
[0:22:10.4] TU: I really like that, having some ground rules, having some structure. My follow up here is you eluded to a struggle in that first year and I think any new business is going to have some growing pains in the first year financially as well as just kind of what you’re trying to build in the operations of the business. But this is an area we don’t talk a whole lot about in entrepreneurship. I think there is so much, maybe overqualification to some degree, of people who make this jump, right?
Other people are like, “Oh man, I want to do that.” But we don’t hear as much and we probably don’t share as much of like it’s really hard to build something not only in terms of the time and the sweat and the energy but also some of the financial struggles and challenges that can come. It takes some real mental fortitude and I think belief in yourself and what you are trying to build to really be able to overcome some of those fears and challenges in the first year.
Tell me more about, for you, Derek, and for Cosmas Health, and perhaps more specifically your primary product and Pyrls, what some of those struggles were in that first year?
[0:23:02.0] DB: Oh my god, I’m just smiling over here as you are saying all of that because yeah, I remember before launching the first version of Pyrls, which again for the reference for the audience, so Pyrls is a drug information tool for pharmacist, for pharmacy students. It is not for patients, it’s for in deck clinicians and so I remember thinking like, “Oh this is going to be so easy.”
Tim, we’re going to launch this and like actually want 10,000 people to pay a $100 a year and that’s a million dollars, you know there is over 300,000 pharmacist so like, that’s just a tiny percentage of them. So I am just going to launch this and then everyone is going to be like, “Wow, this is super cool!” and sign up, and “Wow, you know it is going to go great.” Nobody cares about what you are doing, you know?
That is one of the hardest things to learn with businesses, you can be super excited about what you’re doing but nobody else has to be. And so I remember the first – let’s just go back to January 2020 when I went full-time on this, that is actually when Pyrls was officially launched to the public as well, and I remember getting ready to launch this new feature in February and we had a pretty good Instagram following at the time.
We have an Instagram account where we share medication facts, and so we ended having a few thousand followers at a point and so I remember getting ready to – and we are reasonably sure it was mostly pharmacy students, pharmacist, you know our target audience and so one of the strategies we use for a number of reasons is we have a free tier, which people would just sign up for free.
I remember getting ready to launch this feature and all of the text around the promotion was, “Just sign up for free and check this all out,” And we were launching it on Instagram, you know, we made a post, we made the stories were there, and I am sure we made stories, and I remember 24 hours went by and not a single person even signed up let alone a sale.
[0:24:35.5] TU: You’re like, “It’s free, come on.”
[0:24:37.3] DB: Yeah and I remember just being like, “Wow, this is going to be…” you know? Honestly, I don’t know how I wasn’t more discouraged. I think what I am most happy about nowadays and sorry, I don’t mean to take us in a different direction but I am so happy that two years into this, I am actually more excited about what I am doing now than I was when I started and that’s really important.
You know, I could have found that the business could be doing ten times better than it is now but I wouldn’t be happy if I wasn’t enjoying it, that would be hard. It would be hard to wake up and dread my day. And so, I think that was a really obviously, a really critical part of starting something new when you don’t know if you have traction. You don’t know if the business is going to work, is you’d be loving it, and so I certainly was loving it and yeah, so it was all of 2020 was a slow –
You know, the growth – I don’t know if it is the combination of – I think with any new business, I think there is some – actually you might know Tim, I don’t know if this is – again, this is maybe something I am pulling out of my head, but I remember seeing like a marketing rule of thumb that was, like, people don’t respond to your ad until the sixth time they see something. I don’t know if it is just a factor of being around long enough to start getting the compounding growth and or obviously as you build your business you are going to learn what people actually find valuable and double down on that.
[0:25:46.7] TU: Yeah and Derek to that point, you now there can be a lot of head trash, at least I am speaking for myself and other pharmacy entrepreneurs I’ve talked in a regular basis, that we tend to look at our audience and what they want through our own lens and our passion and how we’re sending content out and marketing materials and other things. And that is not how they’re looking at it, right?
If I think about your avatar client Derek, of what I know of your business, they have a million things going on in the day, right? With their work, with family, with other things and so when they see that Instagram story, they are seeing ad for a free Pyrls app, you’re looking at it through lends of like, “Yeah, this is a home run. I know the value, I’ve built this. I know how it competes with everything out there.”
The same thing with our end on financial services piece of content, whatever it be like that’s one small snippet of their day, it is everything in my day of what I am passionate about and working on. And so I think that we may tend to under promote our content out of fear of like, “Am I being annoying? Am I sending out too much content?” But really seeing some of that data, and Grant Cardone talks about this stuff like you know, most folks from a business standpoint have enough security problem that people don’t know who they are.
They may think that people know who they are and you know, it’s finding that balance of course of what you’re comfortable with but you know I think that resonates with me of what you shared in terms of the number of times that people might have seen something.
[0:27:02.2] DB: I am going to share one more thing in that Tim too. I remember or this is something I will tell, I have one employee now and a few interns and this is something like when I am onboarding people, I will talk to them about how because I learned this for myself. It is such a miracle anytime somebody pays for your product because as I said, a lot of users of Pyrls, they’ll find us on, let’s just say, Instagram is honestly really the place for them to find us.
I was like, all right, picture in, I would say most of our customers are like fourth year pharmacy students or first year new practitioners and so I was like, picture our users. They’re in New York riding the subway to school and they may be looking at Instagram and they see a post Pyrls makes and they click on our profile and then they’re about to go to our website and buy but then they got to their subway stop –
[0:27:43.8] TU: That’s exactly right, yeah.
[0:27:46.2] DB: But let’s say that they even signed up. Okay, and they’re at the checkout page. Say, they even think to themselves, “This is the coolest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. It costs $40, why would I even pay a $100 for this?” But their dog starts barking and then they forget about it because they have to go take care of their dog. The process of building a business is, there’s so many factors and just putting in the work is ultimately how you get the full cycle going and I just encourage people not to be discouraged by any one little thing.
[0:28:13.6] TU: You are so spot on. I mean, the subway example is so good, right? Because I often say, “Hey man, there are 330,000 pharmacist out there and I am so confident in the solution that we have.” But what you shared is like, I hope we never lose that appreciation and admiration and gratitude for someone that not only follows us and engages with the community but ultimately makes that decision to trust us to provide a service or a product that we offer.
I never want to take that for granted because you know what it takes of 330,000 people to actually get your content out in front of eyes. You are already kind of working down the funnel there, those that then take action on it are able to invest the time to read your content, follow your content and ultimately make that decision approaches and you know to me as a business owner, that is the ultimate vote of confidence in what your doing is to raise their hand and to purchase something, they’d trust you with a product or a service and I am just hopeful as I can tell in your voice and gratitude, I am hopeful to never lose that as a business owner because it is so special, it really is.
[0:29:13.5] DB: I’d do anything for my customers. They could call me any time of day, I’ll come pick them up if they are stranded on the highway. Yes, I share your sentiment of gratitude so deeply.
[0:29:20.8] TU: Derek, I am curious, and we are going to link too in the show notes and I hope folks will check it out if they haven’t already, Derek you have mentioned Cosmas Health, we’ll link to that, cosmashealth.com in the show notes. That really was the LLC that you created to start freelance work, Pyrls, which is pyrls.com, we’ll link to that as well as the Instagram @pyrls.app you mentioned in the show notes so folks can check that out.
As I look at the work that you’re doing, I ask this of any business owner that I talk to, which is, what differentiates your product from what is out there in the market. Now, it’s been some time for me since I’ve been in a pharmacy working with a patient or an inventory cures thing but I think about traditional tools that I trained with, right? Whether that’s Lexicomp, Micromatics, up to date other tools, what really differentiates the Pyrls product and what problem is Pyrls really trying to solve that again, we are hoping to entrust folks support that they invest in this resource among others that are out there?
[0:30:12.3] DB: Yes, so as I mentioned the original idea, you know drug information references, that these has been around since stone tablets I’m sure but the rendition that we are building now, my original inspiration started while I was on rotations. I was, in particular, as a fourth year, interested in a faster reference for counseling points and/or clinical pearls, you know, hence the pun there.
The two or three most common things that differentiates Pyrls are now is number one, the counseling points. You know, we have a custom set of curated counseling points for all medications and that’s by far the most common feature that our users love, is they look up a drug and go check out the counseling points. Whether they are studying or on site, and it actually was really fun in the early days of Pyrls of getting to use, like I’d be at the drive through on the phone with a patient counseling them. In my hand I’d have Pyrls like looking down on it, and yeah, take it with food.
And so the counseling points. And then the next piece is helping decide – we have a really popular section for most medications called place in therapy where “Hey, you are looking at this [Ason Edgar 0:31:10.7]. Well yeah, that’s for hypertension.” But like where does it – when is this used versus another first line [inaudible 0:31:16.4]
We have nice summaries of guidelines for chronic conditions. There is about 2,000 drugs or so that actually matter, and right now Pyrls only covers about 400 of them. And so we covered the – for the most part the most commonly prescribed medications. So that is the area that we’re focused on like if you are an orthopedic surgeon, Pyrls doesn’t have much utility for you now and so how we’re thinking about expanding this.
Whereas traditional references is sort of organized information kind of just like a book would or it’s like a table of contents. We sort of organize information around workflows like counseling of patient or you know, you need to decide prescribing or reviewing, essentially, you need to understand those place and therapy concepts so that’s what differentiates us now as the information for a specific workflows, and where we’re headed is building that out for more drugs and for more workflows.
[0:32:03.2] TU: Love it and I can see as I look at your website, just an opportunity to continue to expand upon the awesome work that you’ve done. Derek, my question for you as I hear you talk about your journey, from idea to obviously getting the product out there that you use yourself when you are working at Walgreens, to now having an employee and obviously having some interns and the growth that you have, the plan going forward is, what support or infrastructure support have you had as a business owner?
Has this been all learn-as-you-go? Obviously beyond the tech side, I am thinking about as I look at your website, there is of course the web design to be able to take purchases, looking at your pricing tiers and structures as a marketing aspect, there is a strategy piece, there is a business development portion, there is an HR piece as you are hiring, are you going at this alone? Do you have a group of entrepreneurs or an incubator or something that is supporting you along the way? Tell us more about the support you have as a business owner.
[0:32:58.4] DB: Yes, so well, you know other people have certainly mentors, like most people, mentors have been just – I can’t even put into words how influential and responsible for any success that Pyrls has had so far. Pretty much everything that you just mentioned, you know, marketing, finding customers, solving problems, learning through the experiences of entrepreneurs who went through it or further along has been so huge for me.
Yeah, Pyrls has been fortunately working in 2021. So we went through an accelerator out in San Francisco over the summer, which connected myself personally with tons of other founders in the technology industry. And so that from the business growing side of things has been very beneficial but honestly the support of the pharmacy community has been probably the main thing for Pyrls success thus far.
The most important thing in my mind is the integrity of our content and I think the trust in the information is probably the most – that is the most important pillar of the house we are building and so talking to other leaders of medical information companies who are entrusted with a similar responsibility of their product has been the most I would say, that’s why I think it was just people.
[0:34:04.6] TU: Yeah, I love it. I love what you’ve built Derek, I love the passion you have behind the work that you are doing. Also just my business partner, Tim Baker and I often talked about like we love the puzzle of business. We just love the challenge opportunity to build products and services that hopefully meet the needs of the community and I can tell you’ve got that passion as well.
I am excited to see where this builds out in the next several years, hopefully we can have you back on the podcast and share some of that growth with the community. We will link to the Pyrls website, the Instagram account. For folks that are already aware, they can check that out and share the good news. Beyond that, Derek, what is the best place that folks can go to learn more about you and to follow the journey?
[0:34:40.2] DB: Yeah, well really any pharmacists who is either interested in a business idea they have or talking to other pharmacists and non-traditional roles or interested in, honestly like I said, if I had nine lives to live most of them would be in a different pharmacy role. So if you are somebody who thinks that we could have something interesting to talk about, please connect with me on LinkedIn.
I am the only Derek Borkowski, PharmD, and so we’d love to connect there as well as, yeah, please if you – to whatever degree of interest anybody has, follow our Instagram, @pyrls.app. And Tim, thank you for everything you are doing bringing voices like mine on your show and all the other inspirational and super important advice and information that Your Financial Pharmacist puts out into the world.
[0:35:21.6] TU: My pleasure, Derek, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show and I am so glad our paths have crossed, so thank you again.
[0:35:26.5] DB: Likewise. Thanks, Tim.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:35:28.2] TU: As we conclude this week’s podcast, an important reminder that the content on this show is provided to you for informational purposes only and it is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information of the podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.
Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog post and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on the podcast. Opinions and analysis expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.
Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.
[END]
Current Student Loan Refinance Offers
[wptb id="15454" not found ]Recent Posts
[pt_view id=”f651872qnv”]
