YFP REI 112: Getting Out of a Sour Investment

Explore real estate investing highs and lows with Steven Nguyen as he shares about risk management and his experience investing in a mobile home park.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Your Financial Pharmacist Real Estate Investing Podcast, we explore the highs and lows of real estate investing with a seasoned expert. Our guest, Steven Nguyen, PharmD shares key strategies for navigating challenges, emphasizing the critical elements of risk management and scaling. He provides a firsthand account of renovating a 20-unit apartment complex, highlighting the role of hard money lenders and the intricacies of cash-out refinancing in a rapidly evolving market. Steven also candidly shares the lessons learned from owning a mobile home park, offering a rare glimpse into the challenges that arise in this unique sector.

About Today’s Guest

Steven Nguyen graduated from pharmacy school in 2013 and has worked as an inpatient pharmacist in California for the first four years and then as a pharmacy director for the last five years. From 2013 to 2017, he focused on paying off over $250,000 in pharmacy school debt, and once paid off, he shifted his focus to real estate. Steven started house-hacking single-family homes for three years, then quickly realized that it wasn’t scalable. He transitioned to commercial real estate, focusing on apartment complexes and mobile home parks. Steven started a direct mailing campaign and acquired a 26-unit apartment complex and 200-lot mobile home park in 2021 and a 20-unit apartment complex in 2022. Steven Nguyen is based in California but invests predominantly in Oklahoma and Alabama. Steven has a buy-and-hold philosophy and likes to force appreciation via value add strategies and then execute a cash-out refinance to pull out money tax-free, so he can continue to buy more real estate. Over the past five years, Steven has built a real estate investment portfolio of close to 90 units and was able to scale that portfolio while working full-time as a pharmacy director without any partners.

Key Points from the Episode

• Real estate investing challenges and lessons learned. [0:06]
• Real estate investing with a focus on risk management and scaling. [2:19]
• Renovating a 20-unit apartment complex with a hard money lender. [10:11]
• Hard money loans and cash out refinancing in a rapidly changing market. [13:44]
• How interest rate changes affect apartment property value. [19:42]
• Real estate investing strategies and market predictions. [22:12]
• Real estate investing strategies for beginners. [27:02]
• Mobile home parks investing with pros and cons. [30:15]
• Mobile home park investing and infill strategies. [34:49]
• The challenges and lessons learned from owning a mobile home park. [37:52]
• Real estate deal gone wrong. [43:28]
• Overcoming real estate investing challenges and finding financial freedom. [46:33]
• Real estate investing with a focus on discipline and consistency. [51:50]

Episode Highlights

“I’ve always just kind of had that approach where like, Okay, here’s the deal I’m buying, does it make sense right now, and it may not be a homerun deal, right now. But like, does it work for me? And does it work for my strategy? Right, like with single family homes, I just want to live in the house, right? And rent out some rooms because I need a place to live.” – Steven Nguyen [0:26:51]

“But in two years, when I look back, will I be mad that lost $60,000 or went through all the stress? Probably not. This is my battle scars. Right? This is the battle scars that I need to accumulate as a real estate investor. It’ll make me better moving forward. I just went over a bunch of realizations that I told you earlier, I actually just went all in on one thing that I was good at, which is apartments in Oklahoma.” – Steven Nguyen [0:48:31]

“Just find your unfair advantage and stick to it. You can become wealthy just doing one thing. I can become wealthy just buying single family homes in California and house hack. I can become wealthy buying apartment complexes in Oklahoma City that I own. I can be wealthy owning, if I wanted, mobile home parks in one area part of the market. So whatever it is, just pick it and commit to it for the rest of your life. It sounds boring, but boring works.” – Steven Nguyen [0:49:03]

I think that there’s two big things that I’m taking from this story. One is that despite all the all the things that we hear about real estate, where it’s it’s portrayed to be this glorious thing where nothing ever bad happens, like bad things do happen. And we need to be prepared, there need to be reserves. And we just need to expect that so that when it happens, it’s a Okay, now I need to I need to roll with it.” – David Bright [0:51:51]

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode

• YFP REI Ep 86
• LoopNet
• Connect with Steven Nguyen on YouTube
• Follow Steven Nguyen on Instagram: @makingmultifamilymoney
• Follow Steven Nguyen on TikTok: @makingmultifamilymoney
• Your Financial Pharmacist
• YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook Group

Episode Transcript

[INTRODUCTION]

Nate Hedrick  00:28

Hey, David, how’s it going? 

David Bright  00:30

Hey, good, thanks. How you doing? Man? 

Nate Hedrick  00:31

Good. We’ve got Thanksgiving approaching, which is just absolutely wild. We’re this far into the year, but it’s, it’s a good time. 

David Bright  00:38

Yeah, it’s kind of that season of coming into reflection and thankfulness and even some planning for the year ahead. If you’re kind of ahead of the game there is we’re as we approach the end of the year. So there’s this temptation at this time of year to come in with this thankfulness vibe, and say real estate investing or even investing in general, it’s unicorns and rainbows. There’s never a bad day for next year, right, and, and while goals aren’t a bad thing, SMART goals can be a really valuable thing. It’s also important to acknowledge that real risk exists in investing in real estate investing, for sure as well. And mitigating against those risks, as much as possible can be a good fit, particularly for the pharmacist personality type.

Nate Hedrick  01:19

Yeah, and we felt like today’s guest was kind of the perfect fit for finding that balance. We brought back Steven Nguyen from Episode 86. If you’ll remember Steven at all, he is a hospital pharmacy director who has amassed over 100 units of long term real estate, I mean, just absolutely killing it. And he kept things rolling, right, even after we talked to him way back when he kept going kept buying more assets. And if if you’ve caught the spoiler, right of the balance here, it’s that some of that some of those investments didn’t quite work out, right, some of those things started to sour. And it you know, I don’t want to catch anybody off guard with that. But there’s there’s a downside to real estate sometimes and living through that and can be very difficult. And so we wanted to bring Steven to talk about that he really talks about some of his financial problems, some of the the mental health problems that he that came about as a result of these financial woes. And I feel like that’s a really powerful message and something that I get, we’re not trying to hide anything, we want to be as transparent as possible with real estate investing. And Stephen does that just to a tee? 

David Bright  02:18

Yeah, we talked with Steven before the recording about some of these details and, and some of the things that he that he’s shared and wanted to share about the ugly side of real estate investing that just doesn’t get discussed. At the same time, he wanted to jump quickly into how others can avoid those same mistakes. So, I don’t want to minimize or be insensitive to the pain. I know that that pain can be very real. For a lot of real estate investors, mental health is a real thing. At the same time, I want to honor Stephens desire to allow him that transparency, and then move past that, and also talk about how others can avoid that same pain.

Nate Hedrick  02:53

Yeah, absolutely. I think if you talk to anybody about real estate, one of the things you’re bound to hear from someone is how they swear real estate is terrible, and how you know, all the extra costs that you’re going to incur, and the evictions you’re going to deal with, and it’s going to, you know, real estate is all bad, right? And so we don’t want to just dive into that, like, that’s not the goal here, either. There are financial risks and financial woes. And that’s, that’s, you know, a bummer, quite frankly, but there also are positives to it. And you can learn from those mistakes. And so Steven really does a great job of focusing on when stuff goes bad, how do I take that, learn from it, and then spin it positively. And so I just I really appreciate him taking the time and the transparency to share this story because it’s, it’s it’s a tough one, and he does a really great job with it. 

David Bright  03:37

Yeah, I think it’s inspiring to that. Towards the end, he doesn’t describe how he just sells everything and gets out of real estate, right. He describes how he redirects how he mitigates risk, and how he continues to move forward and to do more real estate investing. So circling back to some of those end of year goal setting thoughts, I hope that investors that are particularly wary of risk and in this market can see some of these downsides can heed Stephens warnings can learn from his story and can prevent similar issues in your own investing journey. 

Nate Hedrick  04:08

Yeah, well, with that, I hope you guys enjoy the episode and we’ll take you right to it. 

Nate Hedrick  04:15

Hey, Steven, welcome back to the show.

Steven Nguyen  04:18

Hey, very excited to be back on now. As I mentioned a year definitely flew by for me. 

Nate Hedrick  04:23

I can’t believe it’s been a year since we had you on you last joined us on episode 86. You again, on that episode shared some truly inspirational stuff about growth. It’s just been awesome to hear your story and kind of follow your journey. And you reached out recently and said, you know, Nate, I’ve got some updates like let’s let’s talk about that. So that’s exactly what we wanted to have you back on. For those that may have missed episode 86,irst of all, go back rewind, check it out. Fantastic. But those that might have missed it. Give us a little background on who you are. And we’ll start there.

Steven Nguyen  04:57

Yes, my name is Steven Nguyen, pharmacy director at a hospital. So I graduated pharmacy school back in 2013. Been a pharmacist for about 10 years now. First four years I spent as inpatient pharmacist and the most recent six years I spent in kind of the hospital administration, you know, the pharmacy director, pharmacy manager positions, and you know, throughout that whole time, kind of fast forwarding I paid off $250,000 student debt in four years. And around 2017 is when I started investing in real estate. In the last episode, as I mentioned, I started house hacking in California. And then, you know, a house hack one property two property three properties. And after that, I jumped into apartment complexes and mobile home parks and scaled up to 90 units while working full time without any partners. So that’s kind of a quick and dirty. 

Nate Hedrick  05:48

You give the two minute version of the whole episode like now, if now, have you heard that? And you aren’t right. rewinding to 86 and you haven’t listened to it? Yeah, like, I don’t know what you’re doing. Right? Because that’s, there’s a lot in there. So check it out. 

David Bright  05:59

Yeah, so I want to I want to hit a few terms. Before we get into next steps house hacking, can you can you walk us through house hacking? And how that applied in your situation? What house hacking meant in your world?

Steven Nguyen  06:10

Yeah, so for me, you know, after paying off my student debt, I just want a place for me to live. And you know, I’m single. So you know, buying a four bedroom house, I don’t need a four bedroom, 2300 square foot house that I bought for $800,000 in the Bay Area. So what I wanted to do was I was just used to having roommates. It’s the college mentality. So I lived in the master bedroom, I’ve rented out the other three bedrooms for about $1,000 each, including all utilities, so they actually covered my mortgage payment. So all I had to do was pay the property tax insurance, the utilities, the HOA, which came out to be around $1500. So that’s really cheap for the Bay Area. I know it might sound expensive in other markets, but it helped me get into real estate, reducing my costs and just basically owning an asset that you can do 10% down with because it’s a primary residence. So that’s basically how I got started and how I built my foundation.

David Bright  07:03

Yeah, and then from there, you mentioned scaling really quickly to 90 units. I know that there’s a lot of folks listening, they’re like, you know, I’d love to have one house or maybe two houses, that would be investment properties, maybe they are vacation rentals, maybe their long term rentals, something like that. So that when I wake up at retirement, I have a paid off house and use that as a way to augment their their retirement plan their financial situation. 90 units is a big jump from the first time what’s one or two? What made you decide 90 units. And in this case even more, you grew beyond that. Right? So what what made you decide that you wanted a triple digit number of units and why that was such a crucial part of your financial plan?

Steven Nguyen  07:42

Yeah, so for me, you know, California, it’s an all appreciation market, you’re not going to really cash flow, like for context, my first single family home in the Bay Area, you know, rents for about $4,000, I bought for $800,000 and kind of breaks even a little bit negative if I have some repairs here and there. But the appreciation was massive, like from 2017, all the way up to 2023. It’s now worth around $1.3 million, and I bought $800,000. So I made half a million dollars equity on that property. And I was cashflow negative, right. You know, when interest rates lowered, I refinanced it lowered my interest rate organically the rents raised because you know, California we do get good renters, especially in the Bay Area. There’s a lot of high income W2 workers there. And you know, I just house hacked a couple of properties, right. So every time I got a new job, I got a new house that was the primary residence, I was hacked it and as you can imagine, you know, my first house hack, I made about half a million dollars equity, but all my properties that house hacked made half a million dollars in equity. So I just said, all right, I’m gonna take all this equity, do a cash out refinance, pull the money, lower my interest rate, and then I dump that into apartment complexes. And I chose Oklahoma to invest in because it’s more of a cash flow market and less of appreciation market. So for me, what made me scale was one I kind of looked on Loop Net. So Loop Net, it’s kind of like Zillow, but for apartment complexes, and I was looking at Oklahoma and I was like, wait a second 30 unit apartment complex cost of a million dollars. But in California that gets me a single family home I’m currently living in and that one single family home in California gets $4,000 in rent, versus a 30 unit apartment complex. Let’s say it’s 500 bucks a unit that’s $15,000 of rent. So I just said for the same amount of money, I can significantly increase my cash flow. So that’s when I just said you know what, I want to buy more units and I want to buy in a cash flow market. So while price didn’t really vary, the cash flow did. So that’s what I kind of made my pivot into, you know, apartment complexes and mobile home parks, which is where I’m currently at. So I leveraged the homes I house hacked, took that equity to buy the apartment complex with more units. So that’s how I was able to scale significantly was just taking that equity, and then reusing it, reinvesting it and getting more units, which gets more cash flow. 

Nate Hedrick  10:11

I love that. I think something that gets overlooked is, you know, we have the luxury right now of looking back over the last five years, right, of your investing and it sounds like in this, you know, couple of minutes of conversation, it just sounds like all these things have been done. But this is stuff that you’re doing day in and day out to make it happen, right. This isn’t like magic, right? And I think people listening to this immediately assume this guy got lucky this guy like, no, you’ve been grinding this out for five straight years. This isn’t just it just happened overnight, right. So I think people get intimidated when they hear 90 units or 100 units or 500 units. But it’s not like these fell into your lap. Right? This is all stuff that you’ve been doing along the way. And, you know, taking some lumps here and there. So just putting that in perspective for everybody that’s listening that this is not something that just happened overnight. So I think it’s important. And I want to I want to jump to some of those updates. I think that’s that’s where we kind of left off the last time was that that 20 unit apartment, you had talked about getting ready to refinance that. I know that we ran into some issues here in the last couple of months if you’ve not been paying attention with interest rates. So tell us a bit more about that, that 20 unit apartment complex, and just give us some updates on that.

Steven Nguyen  11:17

Yeah, so basically my 20 unit apartment complex, I bought it in May of 2022, using a hard money lender. So basically, at the time I did 25% down those 9% interest only, which at that time, I thought it was high, right. And as you have alluded to, you know, today, it’s just normal, right? 9% normal back then 9% was high. So basically what I did was put 25% Down, they actually baked in some renovation costs. So I got $100,000 from the lender that I could leverage as well to renovate these 20 units. So in those 20 units, I renovated about 15 or 20 of them over the past year. And one unit was completely burned out. Like the prior owner, they had a little grease fire in the kitchen, and it burned down the entire unit. While his insurance was so bad, he probably bought really cheap insurance that he didn’t repair, it was just a burn down unit. So I knew coming in, I got quotes doesn’t cost me $40,000 To renovate that burned down unit from complete nothing into a brand new unit. So I had $100,000 budget $40,000 went into the burned down unit. And the other $60,000 was kind of sprinkled out through the other 14 units. You know, it vary per unit like some needed about, you know, $10,000, some needs about $2000. And the average was around $5000. So, you know, as you start renovating it, you start to get a flow of things, right. Like for me when I renovate, it’s very simple. I have LVP flooring, luxury vinyl plank flooring, all 20 units have the same design. So it’s economies of scale, I use a neutral color paint on the walls, kitchen cabinets, I typically repaint them, if they’re still good. If it’s actual wood, you can actually repair those easily and cost effectively. If there are burned down then I bought in some, you know new kitchen cabinets, typically shaker and I would renovate the bathroom. You know, you just LVP flooring throughout the whole unit. So it doesn’t vary between kitchen living room bathroom, you can get some vanities from Home Depot and bathtub kits from Home Depot as well. So I tried to keep it very cost effective tenant proof it also very clean modern. Because for me, I didn’t want to over renovate these units because my market rents was around 500 bucks. So when I realized that this brand new unit that was that I spent $40,000 on gotten me 500 bucks in rent versus a unit where I just put $2,000 make it ready, I got 490 I was like okay, well, there’s not much of a margin there. So you don’t really need to overkill it. So, you know, over that time, I basically renovated turned all my tenants, I have all new tenants now and did that at rapid speed, just to get ready because hard money loans have a 12 month term. So you’re under the gun, right? You have to go fast. And as we all know, delays always happen, right? Renovation delays, getting supplies or delays in doing the cash out refinance actually took me a lot longer than expected.

Nate Hedrick  14:15

So a lot of great stuff to unpack there. I think the hard money is where I want to start and then we can kind of progress from there. So I think people get scared off by that idea of hard money right? But, hard money is just basically borrowing from not a bank, essentially, right? Like to break it down, right? You’re getting it from not a bank. It’s from a source that is basically an investor right? They’re investing in your deal and saying, look, I think you’re gonna be successful with this. At the end of 12 months, I want you to cash out refinance, or sell the property or whatever you want to do. And I’m just gonna make 9% on my money right? That’s that’s generally how that works.

Steven Nguyen  14:46

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. So basically your skin in the game was I put 25% down and I’m paying 9% interest only and I have to pay about one to 2% origination fee and from there Every time I, I upfront the renovation costs, so what happens is I put $40,000 out, fix up the burndown unit, and then they would send an inspector to inspect it. If everything checks off, then they’ll give me my draw. And there is a fee for all that. So that’s at a high level what a hard money lender is. But you’re right. It’s not a traditional bank. It’s not like Wells Fargo Chase, it’s an investor usually who has money and they want to, you know, make money via 9% interest, which is great, right? But also have your asset security in case I fail, they can take over my asset.

Nate Hedrick  15:32

Right, right. So when you get to the end of that 12 months, essentially, your options are either come up with the cash from another property, sell the property that you’re invested in, or do the cash out refinance. Which which did you choose? 

Steven Nguyen  15:44

Yeah, so for me, I’m a buy and hold investor ideally. So I want to do the cash out refinance. So actually started the process in May of 2023. So about a year later, because out of your relationship with the hard money lender, you know, they’re pretty flexible. They extended my term a bit, and they knew what happened, right? So from May of 2022, to May 2003, interest rates soared like crazy, right? Like I was getting 9% was a hard money loan rate, right. But in May of 2023, 9% was a normal rate. Hard money loan rates were like 12 to 14%. So you know, when I under this deal, I’ll be honest, I did not anticipate interest rates to be that high. Right? Kind of taking a step back in May of 2022. I thought I bought this for 350. I put $100,000 into the deal. I’m all in for $450. I thought it was gonna be worth $800,000. Right? Fast forward to my cash out refinance. Interest rates went up, if interest rates go up, what happens? My cap rate goes up, and my cap rate goes up, my value goes down. So what did my ARV end up being? My ARV was around 560. So that was 240k less than I thought, right? So when I did my cash out refinance, I didn’t pull all my money, I was in this deal for about $200,000, I only pulled out $80,000 out of $200,000. So I left the $120,000 into the deal, right. And most people would say, Oh, that’s not that great. But to me, I’m like the fact that I was able to execute my cash out refinance, the fact that I even got a loan might show 7%. And the fact that I was able to, you know, put some money on the deal, at least, and still own this asset. I still think of it as a when I went from a home run to the base hit. But that cash out refinance took me 90 days. It took me 90 days to do a cash out refinance. And for context, usually, when you buy a property fresh without owning it, it takes you about 90 days, but typically 90 days into cash out refinance with a lender that had an existing relationship with because the market was so crazy. Right, lending terms got so much stricter. It was crazy.

Nate Hedrick  17:50

And I mean, you’re you’re totally right about, you know, like, again, that going to be a base hit, right. Like, I think people will look at that and go, Oh, my gosh, it was nowhere near what you thought it was gonna be. It’s a you know, it’s a disaster. But it’s really not, there are people sitting out there right now, coming up to the term of their hard money loans, and the property is worth less than they’re going to be able to get like the less than they owe, I mean, at this point. So you could have been in a much worse spot, you’re totally right, you could have sunk $300,000 into construction costs. And now all of a sudden, you’re losing money on that cash out, not only do you have to get the new loan, because the hard money is executed, but now you have to call with more capital to basically keep that deal afloat. So you’re, again, I commend you, I think that could have gone a lot worse, I guess, I’ll say,

Steven Nguyen  18:33

Yeah, and what was kind of nice, too, because I bought this property with instant equity. Right, I got off market using my direct mailing campaign. So I got it for $350k, appraised at $400,000. Day one. And, you know, the upside, you know, was probably around $800,000. And I think it would have been that had interest rates stayed what it was, but the fact that rates went up, despite it doubling what I underwrote, I still was able to pull some money. So like I said, when straights drop down, and whatever how long it takes, believe me, I’m gonna do another cash out refinance, lower my rate pull out some more money in probably get all my money out that I initially put in, so it’s gonna be a BURRRR just over a longer time period. But if you have that protection buy with some equity, be able to force appreciation, and still getting that cash flow, because I’m grossing about $10,000 a month on this unit now, you know, 500 bucks per unit, on average. That’s how you win the game, right? Like, this is my first recession that I’ve gone through I invested in 2017. It’s always been up, right. And this is the first time where I got punched in the gut a little bit, but I was able to mitigate that punch strategically by buying right and having a value at strategy. 

David Bright  19:40

Yeah, I think it’s really important to unpack there. You mentioned a few things as well about how interest rates changed. That changed the cap rate which changed the value and I think for a lot of folks that have only worked in the single family space or the small multifamily space, they own their own home. I don’t know that as many people are familiar with how interest rates can not just drive, you know, like your monthly payment and things like that. But interest rates also can be a big factor in driving the value of the property. So if I’m understanding correctly from what you’re saying, When interest rates for mortgage rates went up, that takes the cap rate up knowing that an apartment complex is not valued based on comparable sales, like a lot of residential homes are put an apartment unit is based on the amount of cash flow produces for the owner because an apartment unit is valued essentially as a business. And so no one really wants to borrow at 7% interest on a building that produces 5% returns, you want the returns to generally be at or above the market interest rate. Is that about right? 

Steven Nguyen  20:48

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. So you know, typically Oklahoma has eight cap market. But if your interest rates at 8%, no way that is a bank is gonna lend on that, right. So that’s why they increased it expand that cap rate to 10. Cap. So I was  underwriting at an eight cap reality was during the appraisals a 10 cap. But it makes sense, right? Because my interest rate was about 7-8%. And I was able to get a lot of connections, I use Bank of the West, which financed my 26 unit, so they knew me. So they gave me a lot of discounts. Like the least if I didn’t have the prior relationship, my interest rate would have been probably eight and a half to be honest. So like I said, you can, they’re going to increase the cap rate accordingly. So if interest rates go up, cap rates will go up, which will decrease your value, right? Because if your net operating income, that’s the income minus the expense, your gross rent minus your expense on an annual basis, that’s your net operating income, and you divide that by the cap rate, if you divide it by 8% cap rate, the value will be higher. But if you divide it by a 10% cap rate, the values will be lower. So that’s how, you know, I know they say apartments are recession resistant, but you know, everything is going to take a hit when interest rates go up, right, and the lender, they vowed they want to see something called debt service coverage ratio of 1.25. So if your interest rate goes up, your monthly mortgage payment is going to go up. So you need more cash flow in order to satisfy their 1.25 debt service coverage ratio. So it’s all connected, right? It’s all just numbers at the end of the day, with with apartments, which is why I love it, right? Like I mean, I never expected to be this bad. But I can explain it to myself easily after reading the appraisal report. It’s just very numbers oriented. I know you mentioned when just rates drop, like the cap rates, gonna drop my values and go up, I can cash out refinance, and it may hit that $800,000 initial ARV that I anticipated. And at that point, you know, it would be a homerun, but it just took me, you know, maybe a couple more years longer to run those bases than I would like. But eventually it gets there and time is flying, as I mentioned earlier.

David Bright  22:46

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s I think that’s a really important perspective to understand that the interest rate shapes the value. And so part of what made this successful is you went and you found a property that needed a ton of work, you got it at a huge discount, you did that work, you did the heavy lifting. And that that helped create some value, it’s really cushion against kind of the market forces pushing your value down those interest rates, though, that it’s kind of hard to tell right now, how long it’s going to be before that comes back down if it’s going to go up further. So, you know, I’m curious, your perspective and your projections here with interest rates? Is it something that you think is going to come down early in 2024? Are you expecting things may get worse before they get better? Are you going to have to hold this property for several years before things come down? What’s your what’s your gut tell you about the market right now?

Steven Nguyen  23:36

Yeah, that’s a great question. But kind of taking a step back. You know, for me, my strategy when I get loans is I want seven to 10 years fixed. So with commercial loans, you have a it’s usually 30 year amortized loan just like single family residential real estate. But with commercial you have an option of one year fixed, three year fixed, five year, seven year ten year fix. So typically, how it works is if you have a 10 year fixed, your insurance can be higher, versus if you have a one year fixed, your interest is gonna be lower. So they’re correlated, right? For me, I always teach get at least seven to 10 years. So you at least know what your interest rate is, is predictable. And if interest rates lower, great, just refinance it, you might have a prepayment penalty of one to 2% that you might hit. But as you mentioned, I don’t have a crystal ball. But my prediction would be given it’s an election year, typically, interest rates do drop down a little bit during the election year, just to stimulate the economy. You want more optimism as we go into the election. So I imagined that insurance will probably pause or drop down a bit in quarter four of 2023. But I think in 2024, I think it’s going to kind of level out and maybe start a downtrend, but like I said, the moment that interest rates drop down again, all the real estate I currently own, the value is going to skyrocket. Again, I know the moment interest rates are around 5% When I start to train under 5%, it’s going to trigger the next bull market. So for me, I’m just trying I’m gonna position myself in a powerful position with cash reserves to be able to strike when that opportunity comes. Because like you said, the moment interest rates drop, I’m gonna be doing a lot of cash out refinances pull out a lot of money, and I’m gonna have a lot of liquid nitrogen where I can just strike on good deals right and make aggressive offers invest in a power position because I already own cash flowing apartments that are cash flowing now before I didn’t. So I want to definitely take advantage when interest rates drop. So for me, the way I view it is, hey, everyone has the same conditions. We’re all playing the same game right now. But because of my current portfolio, I do have a slight advantage, unfair advantage, where I can strike and like I said, whether or not interest rates go up or down. I think I can survive. My strategy is pre recession proof. I couldn’t say it last time is I’ve never been through a recession. But now that I’m going through it, I can confidently say I am a little bit bulletproof. I can’t say dump tested, right. Like I don’t know if I can take a bullet tough shot. So I took a couple of bullets and and I’m still standing here today. So I can definitely say that the strategy that I use to buy real estate has been tested now. 

Nate Hedrick  26:08

So, if I’m sitting here, and I’m listening to this, and I’ve yet to buy my first property, right, I’m listening in what your sound what you’re saying sounds awesome, but I’m thinking about buying. What some advice you might have for someone sitting in that person’s shoes, right? Like, should I be just setting aside cash and waiting? Should I try to find a deal within the crazy market? Like where’s your gut tell you to kind of go with the experience that you have?

Steven Nguyen  26:31

Yeah, to be honest, like, throughout my whole investing career, you know, as I mentioned, I started feeling in 2017 Like, when I bought my first house, I didn’t think it was that great of a deal. Like that was an average deal. Like it was just an on market deal. You know, I paid asking price and every piece of real estate that I bought, I just thought it was okay. Right? I didn’t anticipate real estate to skyrocket this much, right. And I’ve always just kind of had that approach where like, Okay, here’s the deal I’m buying, does it make sense right now? and it may not be a homerun deal, right now. But like, does it work for me? And does it work for my strategy? Right, like with single family homes, I just want to live in the house, right? And rent out some rooms because I need a place to live. And then with apartments, it was just like, oh, well, you know, I’m finding off market apartment complexes and be able to buy instant equity, and have the ability to increase the rents, which will increase the value. So you know, for me, for those getting started, I just recommend the key is to just to get started, like pick your unfair advantage, right? Like my unfair advantage was just house hacking initially. You know, I’m based in California, I know what cities are good in the Bay Area. I know what cities are good in Los Angeles. Now, now that I’m here. So I just bought that, you know, you can leverage it significantly, you know, five 10% down, if you have a good W2. You know, most pharmacists, we have good W2s, right banks like us for the most part. And then from there, you just like you said, you’ll build equity over time. You know, it’s I know, it’s hard to say wait for like five years to build equity, but I’m living proof, right, I just waited for five years, I didn’t do anything special. I was just working my W2 job, I was just renting out the unit, you know, taking care of any, you know, tenant complaints, if they left I’d have to rent it out, I didn’t do anything special, right. So the key is just to get started. And from there, that’s when I started to exponentially grow, right? Because I started to build equity in my real estate. And I leveraged that to buy apartments. So for me, what I kind of preach is, if you want to get started in apartments, at least $300,000 To get started. I know it’s a huge number. It’s very intimidating, right? And why say 300000 is because 25% down on a million dollar apartment complex, that’s 250k right there, and you’re probably gonna be 50k for in case things break. So I know it sounds super discouraging to most people. But there’s nothing wrong with starting off with House hacking, you know, one house a year for like five years. And then eventually, if you build up $300,000 equity, you can sell those and trade often apartment complex. So the key is just figure out a way where you can make a move to buy real estate, and just make sure you buy it right, right, like I get it, interest rates are high. But with interest rates high a strategy that people should be doing, which I’m considering right now is buying new builds. With new builds, you can negotiate with these builders, because they want to get these properties off their books, right? They’re building 200 units, and they would love to offload some before the end of the year. Right. So you can negotiate discounts, where hey, can you give me $30,000 in repair credit, so that I can buy down my interest rate. So I’m buying down from a percent and a 5% interest rate. And 5% is normal. Right? So I think at this moment, it’s just key to get creative, and find ways to make moves that don’t completely bankrupt you. And just be in the game. The key of real estate is staying in the game as long as possible and surviving. If you can do that you’ll be successful, right when you get wiped out the ones who got wiped out away. Those are the ones who had to rebuild from scratch. So the key is just to not get wiped out make a move that makes sense for you. And slowly give that time because time compounds everything right like I know it’s easy to see like oh one year I bought Like 1000 units. But I know for me now as an operator, like that’s probably not as sustainable as as it sounds. So, you know, the key is just to get started and make a move that makes sense for you, and leverage your unfair advantage.

Nate Hedrick  30:15

Great, great advice, no matter where you’re at in your investing right now. You know, Steve, one of the other things I wanted to talk about, because we mentioned it last time on the show, last time you were on the episode was this mobile home park that you were under contract on? And I know that you, you sold that this year. So I want to talk a little bit about that quickly. Because I think that’s another space that we haven’t covered a lot on the show in the past. And again, I just think you left the teaser hanging on episode 86. And so we want to make sure we finish up on that.

Steven Nguyen  30:44

Yeah, let the cliffhanger about a year ago. So yeah, about my mobile home park. So basically, I bought a 200 lot mobile home park in Selma, Alabama. So with mobile home parks, you define it based on lots. So just because it’s 200 lots doesn’t mean there’s 200 units right when I bought it, it had about 30 units occupied. So what mobile home parks, there’s two models. So model number one is Park owned homes. So that means that me as a landlord, I own the home and I rent it out to a tenant, just like an apartment complex. Another model, which is more popular on the podcast, if you listen to the mobile home park, mobile podcast is the tenants own the home, they own the home, and they just pay something called lot rent. Right? So for example, my park had a combination of both. It depends on your market. In the southeast like Alabama, Georgia, the park owned home model is more common. Because these people, you know, they don’t have enough money to own the homes themselves. Right. And so it’s very common where me the landlord, I own the home. And they just pay me rent, which includes a lot rent and the rent to live there. But I’m responsible for all the maintenance, right. In Alabama, your rents is roughly around $500-$700 bucks, depending on if it’s an older one or a newer one. In terms of Lot rent, that’s when they own the home, right? So you can buy a mobile home for $5,000, spend $2,000 of fixing up, plop your home on a piece of land, and you’re basically paying me the person who owns the land, about $150-$200 in lot rent. So supposedly it’s more passive, right as me the landlord, I don’t have to deal with any maintenance issues. I don’t have to deal with renovating the units or the toilet breaks, they’re responsible for the larger breaks, they’re responsible. So that’s the one that most apartment syndicators operators talk about is that tenant owned home model. And it’s less maintenance, less headache, less expenses, and it’s more scalable, right, so I had experience on both ends. So for me, I’ve seen both and like I said, depends on your market. In California, it’s mostly they owned, they own the home, they pay lot rent. In the southeast. I own the home as a landlord and I and they just pay me rent. So there’s pros and cons to each right. So let me kind of dive into that. So with the Park owned home model, you have a little bit more control, right? You could if the tenant is not good, you can evict them. They pay your rent, you can make sure that they play by the rules, are they mowing the lawn, all that stuff, right. With the tenant owner model, you don’t control anything, right? They just pay the lot rent, you know, hopefully they mow their lawn, upkeep, you know, the landscaping, but they can do whatever they want, right? They can paint the house of green, blue, pink, whatever color, right it’s their home, you can’t really enforce anything. They can have a trampoline in their backyard and jump on it can’t really do much about that, right? In terms of eviction, if I own the home as a landlord easy for me to evict somebody just like a normal apartment complex, single family home. Once a tenant own home, the eviction process is a lot more complicated because they own the home. They didn’t pay the lot rent. So basically, when you evict them, you just put a lien on their home. And it when they sell it, then you get your money. But if they don’t sell it, it may take you a while to get their money. So what I was experiencing was it was a lot harder to evict the people who own their home versus when I own the home. So another thing to consider too is for the park-owned homes. Mobile homes are not as durable. When you renovate a mobile home. It’s not like an apartment complex where it’s durable, it lasts a long time. Mobile homes they deteriorate over time the value goes down over time versus apartment the value goes up over time despite it depreciating in getting having that normal wear and tear. So just something to consider. So just kind of a high level of what mobile home parks is I just touch the tip of the iceberg on it. Like just kind of want to leave it at that for mobile homes.

Nate Hedrick  34:35

And so the place that you purchased it was 30 units or 30 homes to begin with on 200 plots. What was the you know, like the kind of the process of that and where that look like for you?

Steven Nguyen  34:48

Yes, so, for my mobile home park, I bought it for $1.1 million. And you know, once again, it kind of blew my mind because I thought this is the same price as my single family home I bought in San Francisco. And it’s a 200 lot mobile home park. So there’s ability to bring in homes we call infilling. In the mobile home park lingo. So you’re able to infill homes, that you can either rent out and you own it, or you can try to sell it and try to sell at a profit. So you make money, but also now you get a tenant is paying you a lot rent. There’s a multi pronged approach, right? I had about 30 homes there when I bought the park. So I have 170 homes that need to infill, it’s called infilling. So initially, I had about 20 homes that already there that need some renovation, my goal was to basically renovate those put about a $5000 to $10,000 each to renovate it. At that point, I can rent it out for about 500 bucks each, or I actually sell those homes to tenants who want to own the homes and they just pay me a lot rent. And they can work with lenders like 21st mortgage or 21st cash. Or Triad, there’s a lot of only a handful of mobile and park lenders and they can actually qualify for the lending buy my home off of me and now they’re paying me a lot rent. So I took that asset off myself, they own it, and they pay me a lot rent. So given that I have 170 homes to infill, I took whatever I can get to fill these homes, right? If you want to rent the home, great, I’ll rent you the home, if you want to bring your home great, you can bring your home, if you want to move your home from another park to my park, right? Like whatever it was when you have 170 Lots to fill. I’m not picky, right. And so for me, my goal was, you know, if I can bring in, if I bought this for 1.1 million with 30 homes infilled. If I fill it up to 200, the value is going to increase significantly, right? It might be like close to $10 million. And I just thought this is my golden goose. This is my retirement, I can say bye bye to pharmacy, right. And then ride off on the sunset, right. So that was kind of my plan, I want to renovate about three homes per month. So that’s about 36 homes a year, so about roughly 40 homes a year. And I want to continue that. And what was nice about mobile homes is I can bring in a brand new mobile home for about $45,000, 100% financed through lenders, plop it down there, at that point, I can rent it out, or I just can sell it. So you get a lot of leverage with mobile home parks with your infill needs. So it’s great for somebody if you don’t have much capital, right? So imagine I brought in five homes, 100% finance, and I’m able to rent these out and able to cashflow me by 200 bucks each, after all my expense, and after my loan payment. Or I can also sell some of those homes to or do a rent to own model, which is actually very popular in the mobile home park space as well, where basically, let’s say rents 500 bucks, if you want to rent to own, I might charge you 100 bucks extra a month, you’re paying 600 bucks as $100 margin. And you do that agreement for five years. And after that five year agreements up, I transfer the title into your name. And then now you basically just pay me a lot rent. So that’s kind of another strategy that people use when infilling mobile home park because as I mentioned earlier, over time, the value of these homes go down. Because they’re not as durable, not sturdy, so organically over time down, and then becomes more affordable for them. And they’ve been paying you extra every month. So that’s what’s really nice about mobile home parks, at least to say, but you know, we can kind of go on a bit later, but I can’t share about the reality what it was really like to own a mobile home park.

Nate Hedrick  38:24

Yeah, so no, you sold this property. Right? So it didn’t, it wasn’t maybe exactly the golden goose that you were expecting. What what was the end result?

Steven Nguyen  38:34

Yeah, so to kind of summarize, I basically sold this at a loss. So I actually put in around, I was probably all in for about $1.6 million. So I put in about half a million dollars to renovate the park. And what people don’t realize is when you owned 55 acres of land, your landscaping bill is very high. Right? You have a lot of 100 foot trees as hurricanes there. Every year on this time of year, I need to start trimming down these trees. And believe it or not, it costs about 700 bucks to trim 100 foot tree. And that’s more than the rent that I was collecting per unit. And when you have 55 acres of land, when you mow one from one end to the other. By time you’re done, you get there start over again because the grass just grew, right, you know, Alabama, it’s a southeast as high humidity. There’s a lot of crap weed that grows fast. So these are all the expenses that you don’t realize, right that it’s fixed, regardless of how much rent you get. So yes, if I’m at 30 out of 200, I’m losing money every month. But if I’m at like 150 out of 200, my fixed expenses still the same, I’m probably cash flowing. So that’s the piece that I didn’t really realize when I got into the deal, you know, I had consultants and property managers who were highly experienced with mobile home parks, but of course at the end of the day, they’re trying to sell you the deal, right? So they kind of upsell the deal to you a little bit. They kind of sell you this rosy value added plan. But in reality I was like punched left and right like I bought this park during COVID. So what happened during COVID?  Supply chain issues. It took me a long time to get my supplies and with mobile homes, renovations, you can’t just go to Home Depot and buy a door for a mobile home, it’s a different size door. You can’t just go to Home Depot and buy a window. It’s a different size window. If you need to buy appliances, they’re typically smaller in mobile homes, you can’t go to Home Depot. So you have to buy these things, you know, from different sources, and then they get shipped over to you. But you know, during COVID, supply chain issues, things took a long time. Dealing with renovations was way more challenging on mobile homes. You can’t just take a person who renovated apartments to renovate a mobile home. 

David Bright  40:35

Yeah, so it sounds like the expenses end up being way more than you were expecting, which is super unfortunate, because when we just did we talked about earlier, larger property like this is valued as if it’s a business, right. So if your revenue is lower, and your expenses are higher, that business is not going to be valued anywhere near as high. So it sounds like you mentioned selling this for a loss, which I’m sure scares a lot of people that are driving a new car listening to this podcast right now that no one wants to be in real estate investment that loses money at the end of the day. So having been through that. One thing that I’m taking from this is you’re certainly not scared off from other real estate investing, you’re continuing to just plow through this and make it happen. So what advice would you give someone that’s now look, particularly in this market a little bit fearful of like, it’s possible to lose money in real estate investing, despite what all the TV shows and everything? Say, what what would you advise someone to protect themselves in this market?

Steven Nguyen  41:29

Yeah, you know, for context, like when I was I bought 80 units in eight months, right, and all my two apartment complexes, a 26 20 unit and my mobile home park were all value add. So I was doing juggling multiple balls. At the same time, I had all the capital allocate towards that. But as I alluded to, everything took longer than expected. Everything costed more money than expected. So what made me decide to actually sell was actually protect my apartment complexes. So I knew that I had about maybe $100,000 left allocated towards my mobile home park. So that’s what pulled got me to pull the trigger to actually sell it. Because I’d rather own 50 good units versus 90 unstable units, right where I’m very stressed. So let me kind of share about the sales process because it was not fun, right. So so as you kind of alluded to, my expenses are very high. I was cashflow negative on the property almost every single month because I’m putting money to renovate it. And even when I stopped renovations, I’m cashflow negative, because it’s just a lot of fixed expenses that comes with 55 acres of land. Right? So for me, what I did was okay, in November of 2022, I said, You know what, I want to sell his mobile home park. And I asked my property manager, who’s also my consultant say, Well, what do you think this is worth? And he just said, Well, I think I can probably sell it for around $2 million. I just said, Oh, that’s amazing. That’s going to be a win. Right? So I’m all in for 1.6 million. But, you know, kind of fast forward to January of 2023, I got an offer for $1.9 million. And I was just like, Oh, wow. So he was actually right. Right, but turns out that the buyer that I was working with, wasn’t very serious, right? So he got under contract, got me an offer, he would take over my seller finance note, I would carry money in second lien position a little bit as well, to make it less of a downpayment. And then he would give me a downpayment. And then I’m free of the deal. Right? So this guy was a syndicator. And what happened was, we had a 60 day contract. Every time I hit the deadline, he wanted a 30 day extension, 30, day extension, 30 day extension, and that happened from January, all the way up to June of 2023. And every time he just say, I need my I need to raise the money, I need more time to raise the money. And I just said, Well, I don’t mind you raising the money. But every time I’m extending this contract, I want more earnest money deposit, right? Because the earnest money deposit is what protects me, right? In case you flake out, I get this money. This is my protection, and it’s guaranteed and non refundable. Right, so we kept going back and forth, back and forth. And, you know, throughout the process, I ended up didn’t end up increasing in the earnest money deposit, because my consultant was just saying, well, Steven, this is the best price you’re gonna get, like, just tough it out. You know, at that point is a $300,000 profit, which was amazing if that was gonna lose money in the deal. I just said, okay, you know, I’ll work with this guy. But he was such a bad seller, non communicative, non transparent, like the complete opposite of me, right? So I learned what a shitty seller and buyers like right? I was always, always been a good buyer and seller, right. But I thought what I was doing was normal. But after trying to sell this park, I realized, wow, most people are terrible, right? They don’t communicate. They’re slow. They don’t communicate timely. It’s just like a Whatever is terrible to do the complete opposite of what I am, right? And then what will happen was on the day of closing, I remember this vividly. It was June 15 2023. We’re going to close I signed all the documents, sent it over to escrow. And the buyer ghosted me on the day of closing. I was going to close for $1.9 million. Instead, I’m now left wondering, Okay, I’ve been bleeding $10,000 a month for the past six months. And it’s not fun to bleed $10,000 a month, right? Even though I have the allocated, I felt so terrible, right? I was at the lowest point at myself at that point, right in June 15. And I just said, Oh, my God, like, how am I going to survive? Right? Like I’ve blown through my reserves. I have a line of credit that I have against my stock portfolio, which I’m using but you know, Stocks are volatile right now, too. Right? So if you dip below a certain amount, so I’m, I’m in like, fight or flight mode at this point, right? Like, what’s gonna go on? Am I have to sell something? I am going to sell an apartment complex? I am going to have to sell single family home? And you know I didn’t know what move to make, right at this point. So I just said, Okay, well, this guy backed out, you know, I took his $30,000 earnest money deposit that only covered three months of my expenses. I’ve been this deal for about six months. So I talked to my, you know, consultant and he just said that you know what, that’s like the best offer you can get your realistic offers on the 1.6. I just said, Okay, well, that’s breakeven. Right? Okay, I’ll take a break even right to me, the key is I want to just break even be free of the stress. I have shiny object syndrome, which is why by mobile home park. I fully admit it right, I’m recovering shiny object syndrome addict, right. Just went all in on apartments in Oklahoma, right, I was literally deciding between a 50 unit apartment in Oklahoma versus mobile home park. Had I just bought the 50 unit in Oklahoma, my life would have been a lot easier because I have economies of scale in a market that I know. And that 50 unit was turnkey, versus I bought this mobile home park in a different market. That was value add that required a lot more capital, right. So this shiny object syndrome, costed me money, costed me time,  and cost me stress. And had I bought that 50 unit apartment complex, I’d probably be in a lot better position than I am today. Right. So that was kind of the lesson that I learned. But fast forward, I basically had to learn for about a month window to manage my stress. Right? I was very stressed. Like I woke up every day, I was hard to get out of bed. Right? I was beating up. I’m just like, why am I even doing real estate? Right? Like, I feel worse off than I did just being a regular pharmacist, they actually made me appreciate my job a little more because this guaranteed income, right? Regardless of how I do, recession, good time, bad time. My W2 pays me every two weeks. Mobile home park doesn’t care, right? Good time, bad time. $10,000 Every month, right? At least. So you know, I basically learned like, I started a miracle morning routine. Like I meditate in the morning, I’ll stretch. Make sure I was taking supplementation, you know, vitamin C, vitamin D, magnesium MBI. I went down this fufu route right now I’m a pharmacist, or I’m the most skeptical person ever and went down this route route, I would journal and actually help reduce my stress because I was trying to reframe my mindset to think, Okay, this sucks now. But in two years, when I look back, will I be mad that lost $60,000 or went through all the stress? Probably not. This is my battle scars. Right? This is the battle scars that I need to accumulate as a real estate investor. It’ll make me better moving forward. I just went over a bunch of realizations that I told you earlier, I actually just went all in on one thing that I was good at, which is apartments in Oklahoma. And it cost me $60,000 To learn that lesson. Right? So you know, you’re for me, that was a huge tangent, but kind of the moral the story is, just find your unfair advantage and stick to it. You can become wealthy just doing one thing. I can become wealthy, just buying single family homes in California that a house hack. I can become wealthy buying apartment complexes in Oklahoma City that I own. I can be wealthy owning. If I wanted mobile home parks in one area part of the market. So whatever it is, just pick it and commit to it for the rest of your life. It sounds boring, but boring works. Right? And that cost me $60,000 and a bunch of stress. I probably aged myself, I caught presidential years where you know that one year, it felt like four years for me, but just the clarity and the mindset that I’ve gained, going through the stress like I’m a completely different investor now and it changed my mindset and my perspective completely. Right. So kind of the moral is yes, you’re gonna get punched left and right. Like every day I was waking up. Something bad was happening every day. Oh, Hey, there’s a water pipe leak broken at your 20 unit. You got to fix that. And now two of the units, my 26 unit. Oh, there was a hailstorm. gotta replace your roof. mobile home park. Oh, the contractor just quit. You got to find a new one. Oh, the buyer just flaked out on me. Right? Like every day you just getting punched left and right, left and right. And it’s hard, right? Because we’re negative creatures. And that negativity builds up. And I’m not not a very relatable person. I can’t just go to one of my pharmacist in my pharmacy. Hey, man, like, I’m really stressed right now I feel so terrible. They just say poor you. You own 90 units of real estate, I can’t really I’m just trying to buy a home for myself. Right? So it’s very lonely, right? It’s a very lonely endeavor. But if you can survive these punches and stand up, that’s when you become in a position of strength. So that’s how I am today, right? Like literally in a snap of a finger. in just October alone. Once I sold that mobile home park, I stopped bleeding $10,000 a month. Both my apartment complexes are now fully leased out and renovated. About I think 44 out of 46 units are now rented out, and I’m grossing $26,000 a month just from my apartments. And I’m probably netting about $8,000 Gross net, which is the same as my pharmacists salary. So I went through this crazy journey, just to go from like negative $10,000 a month. And now I’m like positive $8,000 a month in the span of about one month. So growth and wealth is exponential is not linear. I literally went from like rock bottom all of a sudden, like I’m financially free. And I’m still trying to process like, what that feeling is to be financially free. So I know I hit on quite a bit there. But that was my huge realization as I went through this journey.

David Bright  51:50

Yeah, no, I think that there’s two big things that I’m taking from this story. One is that despite all the all the things that we hear about real estate, where it’s it’s portrayed to be this glorious thing where nothing ever bad happens, like bad things do happen. And we need to be prepared, there need to be reserves. And we just need to expect that so that when it happens, it’s a Okay, now I need to I need to roll with it. So I appreciate that kind of transparent angle of like there are bad things that happen. And the other thing I’m taking from this is where you started the story with the apartments that are super boring, you put the same flooring on everything, you put the same paint on everything you paint the cabinets, like you just find a recipe that works. And you keep repeating that recipe and repeating that recipe and repeating that recipe. And it sounds like after trying out several different things, you’re coming back to like, built the playbook. Let’s just keep repeating the recipe. It works. Just keep repeating the recipe it works so that that discipline to do kind of the kind of boring thing. But it ended up being a huge financial reward and a huge financial success to just do the boring thing. So real estate doesn’t have to always be shiny and flashy and fun and new things all the time. Like sometimes the boring is is just the way to go. And I think that that level of transparency, I really appreciate from your story. I think for those that want to continue to stay tuned in to this story as you as you grow as a real estate investor and you try new things, and particularly with the market as it’s coming up. Where can people find you if they want to follow your story and continue to see your growth and expansion in real estate?

Steven Nguyen  53:28

Yeah, I can give you my link tree which has a link to all my socials but I’m just making Multifamily Money on Instagram and at Steven D. Nguyen on YouTube. You know, we go there, I share a lot about my real estate investing journey, probably have about over 300 videos on there. Just sharing my pains. I call YouTube my therapy, my free therapy, where I’m just talking. But yeah, that’s where I provide a lot of my most recent updates. 

Nate Hedrick  53:55

Awesome. Steven, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Joining us the last time you were on the show, you’re always a wealth of information and we just really appreciate your time and expertise.

Steven Nguyen  54:05

Yeah, no, happy to share it and hopefully prevent some battle scars that people go through or those going through what I’m going through which I call the grind, just know there’s a light at the end of the tunnel. You just have to make the right moves. And you know getting that clarity when there’s a lot of pain.

David Bright  54:20

Thanks for listening to the YFP real estate investing podcast. If you liked what you heard in today’s show, please leave us a review and subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode. If you have a question know someone that will make a good guest or want to connect with us head on over to YFPrealestate.com and join the growing YFP real estate investing Facebook group. 

Nate Hedrick  54:39

As we conclude this week’s episode of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast and important reminder that the content of this podcast is provided to you for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in this podcast and corresponding materials should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to come dealt with financial advisor with respect to any investment. Furthermore, the information contained in our archive newsletters, blog posts and podcasts is not updated and therefore may not be accurate at the time you listen to it. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacists unless otherwise noted, and constitute judgments as of the date is published. Such information may contain forward looking statements, which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward looking statements. For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer.

David Bright  55:33

Thank you for your support of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast. Have a great rest of your week.

Current Student Loan Refinance Offers

Advertising Disclosure