What Makes an Investor-Friendly Agent With HGTV’s Lauren Risley
HGTV’s Lauren Risley talks about what it means to be an investor-friendly agent, the role of your agent when investing in real estate, and the ideal investor client.
About Today’s Guest
Real estate and home renovation expert Lauren Risley knows how to get results from St. Louis’ toughest and pickiest buyers. In her new HGTV series Call the Closer, Lauren helps her clients navigate the daunting home buying process and break through the barriers that are standing in their way of finding the right house. Then, alongside her talented team, she guides the new owners through a renovation that will give them the home of their dreams.
Lauren is the owner of Lauren Risley Realty in St. Louis. As a real estate agent, she manages a team of experienced agents who help clients buy, sell and invest in real estate in St. Louis City, St. Louis County and surrounding areas. Her team of buyer’s agents and selling agents, as well as contractors, stagers, lenders and inspectors, work together to support home buyers to ensure they not only feel confident and comfortable throughout the home buying and selling process but also enjoy the entire experience.
Early on, Lauren became personally interested in home renovation and worked closely with local experts in St. Louis to learn and master the art of renovation—from purchase to renovation to sale. In 2007, Lauren renovated her first home in the St. Louis area and has since managed up to eight renovations per year. Through her real estate work and self-proclaimed “addiction” to renovating homes, Lauren discovered she had a talent for helping home buyers locate their dream home and then designing and renovating the home based on their specific needs—and added that to the list of services she offers her clients.
As a passionate dog owner and advocate for the health and humane treatment of animals, Lauren works to support various non-profit organizations and animal shelters with their journeys to find forever homes for animals. Lauren Risley Realty currently partners with Stray Rescue of St. Louis to sponsor a new dog each month, helping with marketing and covering the cost of the adoption. In addition, the Lauren Risley team works with Dogs for Our Brave, an organization that provides professional trained service dogs at no cost to veterans who have suffered debilitating injury or illness while in service to our country, thus saving two lives at once. Her team helped to renovate the non-profit’s St Louis training facility and makes a sizable donation in their clients’ names for each real estate closing.
Prior to real estate, Lauren was a partner at a St. Louis merger and acquisition firm where she sold privately owned companies all over the United States. She holds a bachelor’s degree in Business.
When she’s not working, you can find Lauren walking her pup, Gus; spending time with friends and family; trying out a new local restaurant; and cheering on the St. Louis Cardinals.
Episode Summary
For a first-time buyer or investor, the process is both exciting and overwhelming at the same time. As pharmacists, we’re often the ones who can get overly detail-oriented as a result. Combined with that dreaded decision paralysis, which is all too common in the current insanely fast-paced market, the one thing absolutely everybody needs is an experienced and communicative agent. Enter Lauren Risley, owner of Lauren Risley Realty, who’s about to appear on your closest HDTV screen in Call the Closer, where she helps clients break through the barriers that are stopping them from getting the house of their dreams. In this conversation on all-things real estate, Lauren gives us her top tips on decisiveness, creating a strategy around your “why” and how to do the work effectively. A consummate investor-friendly agent, Lauren tells us all what to look for in an agent and what you need to be bringing to the table as an investment client. We also get to hear the highs and lows of working in front of the camera and some fantastic parting nuggets of wisdom that will ensure success in any business endeavor. If you’re a first-time buyer and a pharmacist who’s jumping into real estate, or just someone as excited about the industry as we are, tune in and get inspired for your journey today!
Key Points From This Episode
- Lauren shares how her love of real estate started at just 19 years old.
- What makes an agent investor-friendly, and what makes a great investment client!
- Finding the ”why“, so that you can build a strategy together.
- Developing confidence as an investor, which only comes from experience and being coachable.
- The pressure of having to make fast decisions in this insane market right now.
- Having a great team behind you.
- The slippery slope of advising someone versus telling them what to do.
- Asking the right questions, and never skipping your due diligence on a property.
- Talking SWAG: a sophisticated wild-ass guess.
- Lauren’s complete rehab of each property: spending now to avoid spending more later.
- Why your ”why“ and your strategy will probably change over time, and that’s okay!
- Lauren shares her Call the Closer experience, including all the nerves and excitement.
- How time-blocking is key to success!
- Reaching out to people who are successful in whatever you’re trying to learn.
- Some top-notch advice for pharmacists jumping into real estate!
Highlights
“I do what I do because I love it. I think, in any profession when you absolutely love what you do, it’s not really work.” — Lauren Risley [0:04:43]
“There is a fine line between giving advice and lending my expertise in making a decision for someone.” — Lauren Risley [0:16:41]
“My name is on this. I want people to know, I put out a superior product.” — Lauren Risley [0:27:44]
“I have investors that I’ve worked with for five or six years, and it’s awesome. I love watching them win. I love watching them succeed and continue to come back and buy more properties.” — Lauren Risley [0:29:09]
“Most successful people didn’t get to where they were on their own. They got there by having people around them to help.” — Lauren Risley [0:40:37]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode
- YFP Real Estate Concierge Service
- HGTV: Call the Closer
- St. Louis Realtors
- Missouri Realtors
- National Association of Realtors
- BiggerPockets
- YFP Real Estate Investing
- Join the YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook Group
- Your Financial Pharmacist Disclaimer and Disclosures
Episode Transcript
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:08] NH: Hello, and welcome to the Your Financial Pharmacist, Real Estate Investing Podcast, a show all about empowering pharmacists to achieve financial freedom through real estate investing. I’m Nate Hedrick, and each week, my co-host, David Bright, and I explore stories from pharmacists all over the country who are achieving their real estate goals, while maintaining a meaningful career in pharmacy. Whether you’re a first-time investor or a seasoned pro, we’re here to provide education and inspiration about the world of real estate.
Please note, this podcast is intended for educational purposes only, and should not be considered financial or investment advice.
[EPISODE]
[00:00:42] NH: Hey, David. How’s it going?
[00:00:43] DB: Hey, good. Thanks, man. How you doing?
[00:00:45] NH: I am well, sir. I feel like we have been on the phone or on a podcast all day today, but it has been a very good day.
[00:00:51] DB: Yeah, it was fun. We jumped on the phone as we were both driving into work this morning because we’re talking about a project we’re doing. Then late tonight, this podcast. It’s been a fun day bookended by real estate. Yeah.
[00:01:03] NH: Yes. No doubt. And again, I really liked this interview. I was just – it’s been what I’ve been wanting to do for a while and just an awesome, awesome interview. We brought on to the show Lauren Risley. In fact, HGTV is Lauren Risley now. Lauren is a real estate agent out in the St. Louis market. We had connected about two years ago as part of the home buying concierge service.
We had actually two pharmacists that came to us inside of a week who needed just an awesome agent in St. Louis. One was an investor, one was actually a couple looking to buy their first property, first time homebuyers. Luckily, Lauren just perfectly fits the bill of helping both of those types of clients, so it was easy to send those pharmacists to her as part of that real estate concierge service.
But now, we were able to bring her on to talk all about what it’s like to work with investor-friendly agents. I mentioned that she is HDTV’s Lauren Risley now, because she is just about to launch a show called Call the Closer, coming out here on November 8th. So, right as this podcast launches or a little bit before this podcast launches, I believe. Really excited about that. Just wanted to make sure we sat down and talked to her about what it’s like to find a good investor-friendly agent, what it’s like to be on TV, and what that’s going to look like for her here coming up soon.
[00:02:20] DB: Yes. It’s so fun because we’ve mentioned so many times here on the podcast about how a lot of people listening to the show have probably sat in during the pandemic and watched a lot of these shows. Now, it’s fun to talk with someone who was on one of those and not just about some of the rehab, or jumping in and doing a lot of that work, but some really practical tips that I think he can take home about how pharmacists can be good clients of a real estate agent so that you can work well together in just kind of the dynamic of today’s market.
[00:02:53] NH: She even drops a couple of good nuggets about decisiveness and how to do that work effectively, what makes a good client, things like that. I think that’s something that a lot of good agents know, but it’s nice to actually get it straight from somebody who understands this stuff inside and out.
[00:03:10] DB: Yeah, and there’s some good nuggets in there too about being coachable, and being open to advise and not just coming in like you know everything, but still learning, because so much is shifting with the market even just week by week that whatever you learned from years ago may not apply to today’s market.
[00:03:27] NH: Definitely.
[00:03:28] DB: She also drops a really great note. I think that one of the things that pharmacists can do is we can get overly detail-oriented and way into analysis paralysis, and we’re looking at properties. She has a really good tip about opening up the Notes app on your phone to do a really simple budget. I think that’s a great tip. It’s something that was introduced to me several years ago, and we started doing as a way to get through some of that. As you’re trying to make a same-day offer on a property from when you walk it, super helpful just to see if you’re even in the ballpark for this one working or not.
[00:04:01] NH: Yeah. Great tips. Again, had a lot of fun with this episode. Lauren is an easy person to interview. I hope you guys enjoy it as much as we did.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:04:08] NH: Hey, Lauren. Welcome to the show.
[00:04:11] LR: Hey, thank you for having me.
[00:04:13] NH: Yeah, we’re really excited. As we kind of launched in the intro, we’ve been working together for a long time, you and I, and I’m excited to finally have you on the show to talk about all things real estate from an agent’s perspective. This is really cool.
[00:04:24] LR: Yeah, and I’m a big fan of all things real estate, so it’s really my favorite thing to talk about.
[00:04:28] NH: The perfect fit then. I love it. Great.
[00:04:31] LR: It’s a perfect fit.
[00:04:33] NH: We could kick it right off. Why don’t you tell everybody a little bit more about yourself, your real estate journey, and why you’re doing what you’re doing.
[00:04:41] LR: Yeah. I mean, the easiest answer is, I do what I do because I love it. I think in any profession when you absolutely love what you do, it’s not really work. I’ve been lucky enough to have found that in real estate.
My real estate journey started when I was 19. I bought my first house when I was 19. I do not take any credit for that whatsoever. I did pay for it, so I take that credit. But in terms of making that decision at a young age, I had a friend who was a real estate investor and just so happened to ask me what I was paying in rent and said, “Hey! You could buy a house for that amount of money?” I said, “No, I do not.” He kind of held my hand and together, we rehabbed the house. That was my first house and still a rental that I have today.
I lived in the corporate hustle in the finance world for probably 10 years, so I would flip a house just for funsies, maybe once every two years or so, and at some point, just decided to give the real estate a full-time chance and it’s really the best decision that I’ve ever made.
[00:05:50] NH: Yeah, you’ve been absolutely killing it. I mean, we got lucky enough to connect two years ago. Ever since then, it’s been really cool to watch your journey, so I’m excited for it. We talk a lot about investor-friendly agents on the show. We talk about finding a good investor-friendly agent. And again, we were able to connect you with a client a couple of years back, that was looking for an investor-friendly agent and that’s kind of how we got off on this journey together.
Why don’t you tell us a little bit more maybe in your description, what makes an agent “investor-friendly”? And what makes them maybe a better fit for someone, like a typical first-time homebuyer? What differentiates those two things?
[00:06:26] LR: Well, that’s a loaded question. I think whether you are buying a house, you’re a first-time homebuyer, you’re buying a house for your family or you’re an investor, I think the most important part of the process is doing your due diligence to find a good real estate agent. Sadly, the real estate world, there is not a very large barrier to entry. There’s a lot of duds out there and this is a crazy process. It’s super emotional, it can be stressful, it can be super fun. But I think having the right agent is what differentiates a not good process and experience from a great process.
I think an investor-friendly agent is someone that has experience in investing, whether that’s flipping, or rentals, or finding a value add, or even commercial real estate. You don’t know what you don’t know, and if that agent doesn’t have any experience in that world, I think it’s probably not a good fit.
The reason I say that is, if you’re buying a house for your family, we’re doing a residential sales contract, there’s a whole process there. When you’re buying an investment property, oftentimes it’s as is, no inspections. There could be liens on the property, there could be so much going on that if it’s an agent that’s never done an investment property, they don’t know to look for those things and you could really get yourself in a tough spot if you don’t have the right representation.
[00:07:55] DB: Certainly, an investor-friendly agent is something we’ve talked about. But what about the reverse of that? What makes an investor client really good to work with? How can someone position themselves well as a pharmacist to be an investor client of a good realtor?
[00:08:09] LR: What makes a good investor client to work with for me is someone who is a happy medium between having some knowledge but not too much knowledge. I have worked with buyers that don’t have enough knowledge, so they call, they’re super fired up. “Hey! I want to invest in real estate. I got referred to you. Let’s do this.” I’m like, “Great. What are you pre-approved to buy?” They’re kind of lost or they’re silenced on the other end? They’re like, “Well, what do you mean?? I say, “Well, are you paying cash?” ”No.” “Okay. Then, what’s your pre-approved amount, like what are we looking to spend?” Some haven’t even gotten to that point yet, and so that’s a little bit of a longer process and a lot more educating.
Then I have those clients that have read every investing book out there, they’ve listened to every podcast out there. In their mind, they are the expert in real estate investing. That’s a difficult client. Still willing to work with both, but my perfect client would be the happy medium in the middle, where they know what their strategy is, they’re pre-approved.
But the biggest key to a good client is someone who’s open to learning, because every market is different. Every state is different. Even every city within that state, that market is going to be totally different. I think the perfect investment client is someone who is open to learning.
[00:09:31] NH: That’s such a good point. I love the clients that come to me and say, “Okay, Nate. What’s the best way to handle this?” Or like, “What should we do in this process?” That’s such a better conversation than them coming in and trying to take the reins and run everything. It’s certainly, it’s your house. I want you to make all the decisions, but let’s do it as a team rather than just like the bull taking the horns and running with it. That makes it very difficult. I totally agree.
[00:09:57] LR: Yeah, I mean, I’ve read a lot investing books, I love real estate investing podcasts. I always know when it’s a new investor, because the first call I have with them within the first 10 seconds, they’re like, “I want to BRRRR.” I’m like, “So does every person out there.” They want to buy, renovate, rent, and refinance, pull their money out, and do it again. Yes, so does everybody. Those properties very, very rarely exist. It’s really just having someone who’s open to learning about that market is going to be a really, really good investment client.
[00:10:36] NH: If I am a new investor, I’m brand new, I’ve never bought before, I’m going to an agent, I’ve done some reading, I’ve done some background process, I’m open to learning. Is there anything else that I can do to make sure that house hunting process itself with my agent is really efficient and not stressful for anybody?
[00:10:53] LR: I think a lot of that falls on me as the agent. What I tell clients is like, my job is that we get to the closing table, and you look at me and go, “Man! This must have been the easiest job you’ve ever done.” I am like kicking the closer under the table, like kicking the person closing under the table, because that is not the case. But I want my clients to feel that way. And for my clients to feel that way at the closing table, it is educating, hand holding, and doing all of those things.
I think sitting down with a new client, and Nate, we had a client like this, but really finding out what their ‘why’ is and what their strategy was. There’s some new investors that there’s so many ways to invest, that he’s like, “I want to flip. I want to rent. I want to rent something and flip it and I want to –” I’m like, “Whoa! That’s a lot for a first-time investor.”
For me, it’s sitting down with them and figuring out what is your ‘why’, what is your end goal, and then really building a strategy so that they know along the way what the next step is. I think that’s really how we have a smooth transaction and why a lot of these investors come back for their second, third, fourth, fifth property.
[00:12:07] NH: That’s great.
[00:12:08] DB: Yeah. That ‘why’ in that goal-driving strategy is absolutely critical. I know that I’ve had several of those conversations with the agent that I work with, because that’s helped her to then guide me to different properties and know kind of my comfort level. I think that kind of open communication is really helpful.
You mentioned that, because pharmacists, I know are very detail-oriented. We’d love to read and learn and try to become the expert. I think there is a real risk to what you said about someone diving into a bunch of books and podcasts and then feeling like that expert. But one of the things I’m also observing is that, this recent housing market is just nuts. And if you read a book that was written 5, 10 years ago, there’s a lot that probably doesn’t apply to today’s market.
[00:12:52] LR: David, you’re so right. I mean, the market in any state is crazy. I mean, like I said, every market is different, but the common consensus across the country is that the real estate market is insane right now.
[00:13:05] DB: I feel like one of the things that’s pushing into that, it forces buyers to have a different level of confidence and decisiveness than they would have 10, 12 years ago, when stuff sat for six months on the market and now stuff sits for six hours in the market. How does someone develop that decisiveness?
[00:13:22] LR: You know, I don’t know that, especially for a first-time investor, I don’t know that you can develop that on your first try. I think it’s, one, trusting your team, your real estate agent, for sure. If you are doing any work to the property, the contractor, your lender. Having a strong team around you is what is going to help you because oftentimes, investors, they just want to go out and start looking at things. I’m like, “Hey! Let’s sit down and chat” and have that exploratory conversation of “Why are you doing this and what is your end goal? Where do you see yourself in one year or three years?” All of that.
The reason is because, I mean, you could go out day one, find a property and you have about 30 minutes or an hour to make a decision. For someone that is new, that’s overwhelming. Then you get buyers that have cold feet and regret their decision.
Again, it’s the education upfront. And then having a good team of people that you trust, that if they’re saying, “Hey! This is a good decision,” that you’re confident moving forward. Because when I have clients that say, “Hey, Lauren! You know what, this was really great. We absolutely love this. We have all the feels. We want to sleep on it and we’ll make a decision tomorrow.” But there’s people that saw it yesterday, slept on it last night, and made the decision today and by tomorrow, that house is under contract.
[00:14:41] NH: Yeah, that’s a great point. Definitely something we’re learning into. It’s funny, I was just talking to my wife the other day about this because we bought our first house. We had like two weeks to sleep on it. We had all this time to sit and think and like – it’d be a really hard time to buy because, we buy investment properties now, but it’s such a business decision. Like if the numbers work, I buy it. I don’t have to like envision myself cooking dinner in the kitchen. I just have to make sure that it makes sense. But yeah, it’s a tricky place to be right now because of how fast you have to act.
[00:15:09] LR: Yeah, exactly. I mean, especially for first time investors, if they’re having to move very, very quickly through a process, they’re overwhelmed, nervous, unsure of their decision. I mean, that’s why it’s so crucial to have a good team. As a real estate agent, I could tell them, like, “Hey! I understand you’re stressed, here’s the deal. We’re getting such a good deal on this house, that if in six months, you are not comfortable with this decision, we’ll sell it. You’re not going to lose any money.”
I think having a plan B, plan C, things like that are super, super beneficial, especially when you’re new. I think once you get that first investment property under your belt, it’s like, “Who cares?” They’re just like, “I’m ready to buy it. I don’t even need to see it.” I’m like, “Whoa! Slow down.”
[00:15:56] NH: That’s great advice and a great point. It leads me to something that I think – I’ve run into a couple of times. I’d love your take on this. Is that, the exact role of what a real estate agent is supposed to do, it’s not well understood, it’s not well defined. I think that everyone has kind of a different idea of what that person should be doing for them.
Maybe from your perspective, like what should an agent be doing in terms of helping a client with an investment property? Are you helping them run numbers? Are you weighing in on that decision? Because there’s a slippery slope there of like, you’re telling them to buy something versus giving them the advice that they can make that decision themselves? Like, where do you draw that line? What does that look like?
[00:16:36] LR: I mean, slippery slope is probably the perfect way to describe the question that you’re asking. There is a fine line between giving advice and lending my expertise in making a decision for someone. I have regulatory people that I answer to. I have St. Louis Association of Realtors, Missouri Association of Realtors, National Association of Realtors, and they frown upon us telling people what they should and shouldn’t do. I mean, even to the point where I’ll have investors that say, “Hey! Is this a good neighborhood?” I really can’t answer that.
[00:17:11] NH: Exactly.
[00:17:12] LR: It’s called steering. It’s called moving people to or away from different neighborhoods. I have had both residential clients and investors get frustrated, because they’re like, “Just tell me what to do.” It’s not my decision to make. I think the best thing that I can do is, again, educating them upfront so that they’re confident in the decision that they’re making.
But what I can do is I can share my experiences, my challenges, learnings that I’ve had over the last 15 years in real estate. Hopefully, they can feel more confident in their decision and not make the same mistakes that I made. As a real estate agent, my job is to absolutely make sure that, if it’s a flip-for-profit, that your purchase and your renovation is not going to exceed the resale value. Certainly, I’m going to tell you the ARV, the after-renovation value, and make sure that if this is a project that you want, that you’re going to make money on it. I mean, that is my job.
If it’s a rental, knowing that, hey, if you’re putting X amount of money down, and you’re putting this much money into it, your monthly mortgage is going to be $1,000 a month, if your rent is going to be $700 a month. That’s not a very good investment. Absolutely, it’s my job to have those conversations with my clients and help them make a good decision, but it is a very fine line of telling them which house makes sense, and giving them advice on how to make the best decision for themselves and their family.
[00:18:43] NH: I love it.
[00:18:44] DB: Yeah, that’s so good. I am wondering if there’s ways that a good client can ask questions in a way that makes it easier for you to answer those things. Like for instance, I know that as an investor, I’m sure that I’m paying attention to different things because I don’t care about paint color and things like that, that a lot of owner occupants care about. I’m going first down into the basement. I want to see the foundation, and mechanicals and things like that. If I see something wrong with the foundation, and I asked my agent, “Oh gosh. I don’t know what’s going on here. Should I buy this house?” That sounds like the wrong question to ask, is that right?
[00:19:19] LR: No, I don’t think that’s the wrong question to ask. I think that’s again, where having a good team comes into play. Just like you, I go straight to the basement. I want to look at the foundation. I want to see if the electrical has been updated, the plumbing has been updated, the age of the furnace. I want to go outside. I want to see if there’s any draining issues, is the yard graded directly towards the house, really check out the structure and the bones of the house. I’m happy to give my opinion and kind of what I’m seeing on that always. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I am not an inspector.
I have a lot of clients that over the years have grown to really trust me. They’ll just say, “Well, just tell me if you think I should buy it.” I’m like, “I can’t.” I’m like, this is like $200,000 purchase and inspections, a couple 100 bucks. Just spend the money to have an inspector come out. It’s not a lot of money in terms of what you’re buying. And I think all of the due diligence that you can do upfront is super beneficial. I don’t care if you own 50 investment properties, you should always do your due diligence on a property.
Those are things that I love helping clients with, because I’m in the rehab world, I renovate houses, I’m in the rental market, where I have a portfolio of rentals. I want to share that expertise with people so that they don’t make bad decisions. But it’s always prudent, like you have a football team, you’re probably not going to sign 30 quarterbacks, right? You probably need one and a backup. You need someone in each position to have the best team. So having that inspector, having that lender, having that title company, having that real estate agent, having that contractor, having your team is really what’s going to make you successful long term as an investor in real estate.
[00:21:13] DB: I think that’s really good. I think to that point, if you have experience in all those areas, then it’s probably also something where a numbers-oriented pharmacist can be standing in that basement and say, “Oh! That furnace looks really old. How much should I expect to pay for a new furnace?” and you can probably quote that right there on the spot. Not that you’re a mechanical contractor or anything, but you can get them into ballparks they can run kind of basic numbers.
[00:21:36] LR: Yes, absolutely. And I am happy to do that. Over the years, I have grown a pretty large – I invest, but I also have a ton of investor clients. They always ask like, “Are you taking all the good deals?” I’m like, “Man, there are so many deals out there. There are not enough investors that could scoop up all the good deals. So no, there’s plenty for everyone.”
But I have some that they just walk through a property and they do it every single time. We walk through a property and they go “Lauren, what’s it going to take to gut rehab this entire 2,800 square foot house?” I’m like, “Guys! Come on! You do this every time.” I always encourage my investors to bring their contractor with them. I can walk through a property and probably give you a swag, which is by the way my favorite word in real estate investing. Are you familiar with it?
[00:22:29] NH: No.
[00:22:29] LR: Swag, S-W-A-G. It’s so good. You’re going to use it like five times tomorrow. A swag is a sophisticated wild ass guess.
[00:22:39] DB: That’s awesome.
[00:22:41] LR: So I tell clients, “Look, I’m going to give you a swag at what I think this will cost, but like don’t make financial decisions based on that. Because that’s what my contractor would charge. I don’t know what your contractor charges. It’s super, super important that these investors are walking through with their contractor. And again, going back to the relationship, having that team. If your contractor is not really willing to walk through properties with you, get a different contractor. Because you need to know what your contractor is going to charge.
But yes, I definitely help clients with a swag. But if it’s a house that they’re very, very interested in, I always encourage them to invite their contractor, so we can walk through and have a meaningful conversation together on estimates of what things cost, timelines, things like that.
[00:23:30] NH: I think that’s so important because you actually have the experience, Lauren. You have your investment properties. You have your own construction company. When you’re giving them that swag, like it’s not just a wild ass guess. Like there’s some meat to that, which I think is super important, and not every agent comes with that. I mean, I’ll tell you point blank, I’ve only done a handful of investment properties. I am not the one that’s going to tell you like. “Oh, yeah. That kitchen, that’s a $10,000 kitchen. Like I don’t know, I’m not a contractor. I don’t do that work. But I can tell you five people that are.
[00:23:59] LR: I think people would be really, really excited to hear that a kitchen would cost $10,000. And on the back end, you would be in big, big trouble.
[00:24:06] NH: Exactly. You have to practice within your scope. Just like in pharmacy, right? I’m not going to – my background and training in pharmacy is on pain and symptom management. I’m not going to be going out and giving a cardio consult, it’s just not happening. Using that knowledge, knowing what your agent is good at and what their expertise is, that’s super, super important. Do you feel like that that comes out a lot when you’re working with investors, that construction background that you’re ever – doing that work at the point of actually being there or referencing to other contractors at that moment?
[00:24:36] LR: Yeah. I mean, honestly, with probably 100% of my investors without a doubt, every house we walk through, no matter how many times I’ve told them like you need to have your contractor through, they will ask me, what’s this going to cost? Okay. Again, we can give that swag, we go through and I help them make a checklist. We’ll go through and just pull out the phone and through the notes column say, “Hey! The electrical needs to be updated, we need a new panel, it needs a new stack. This is cast iron, it has a shelf life of about 60 years. The house is 110 years old. Not great at math, but I think it’s time to upgrade that stack.”
I can definitely do those things and together, we put together a list. Hey, do you want to redo the kitchen? Great. We do cabinets, countertops, backsplash, appliances. And then I tell the investor, “Hey! Go out and ask an estimate from an electrician, or from a plumber, from an HVAC, call your appliance guy and get those solid numbers.” But putting together the list, I mean, I love that stuff. It’s like shopping with someone else’s money. It’s fantastic.
[00:25:43] DB: Love it. No, I think another thing that’s really good about that is that also helps you get into the weeds with the level of finish for a neighborhood. I think that’s another thing that I’ve seen agents that really understand construction costs and neighborhoods be able to merge those. It’s not just, we’re going to install this kitchen with laminate countertops in an $800,000 price point neighborhood, like that might not be a fit, or whether it’s how backsplash is necessary or not in this kind of a lower-end rental. Those can be things that can I think really impact a budget as well. How do you see that coming into play with like investor clients versus owner occupant clients?
[00:26:23] LR: Yeah. So I mean, I know we’re on a podcast, but I’m nodding as you’re saying that because it’s so real. It happens all the time. You have investors and especially new investors. I learned the hard way. When I first started flipping, I wanted the cheapest way to do it, right? I learned the hard way that you actually end up spending more money in the long run. Because if you just don’t do it, right – if you do it right upfront, it’s a lower cost than finding out two-thirds of the way through a renovation that, man, we thought this was okay, but it’s not.
So, I got everything. I got everything to the studs. I love working on historic homes, I do a lot in St. Louis City. These are 130-year-old houses. I got them all the way down to the exterior brick. We reframe the whole inside, all new electric, all new plumbing, new roof, new windows. I have some investors that are like, “You spend too much money”, but you don’t. I mean, you don’t run into those crazy contingencies halfway through the renovation because I’ve already budgeted to replace everything.
The cool thing and what I try to educate my investor clients on and again, this was not my mindset at the beginning. At the beginning, like I want to make the most amount of money in the shortest amount of time. Doesn’t everyone? But have learned, and especially as I became more passionate about the art of renovating is it’s like, my name is on this. I want people to know, I put out a superior product. So yeah, knowing the neighborhoods, knowing what finishes are going to give you that best ARV, that best after renovation value is huge. But yeah, I mean, we got all of ours all the way down to the studs.
The cool thing for me as an investor, I think, Nate, you may have said, pharmacists come with all these numbers and questions. It’s like, I have my pharmacists, my engineers, and my CPAs, and they bring their computer and their Excel spreadsheets. They spreadsheet these things to death, right? I just tell him, “Hey! Let’s just do this on a very basic level. Let’s budget for everything, right? If you’re budgeting for everything upfront, and the numbers still make sense on the back end, then you know you’re winning, right? Maybe you even save money along the way because it doesn’t mean that.
But I have investors that were like, “Well, maybe we can salvage that cast-iron pipe, and maybe this isn’t so bad. We could just skim coat the walls, instead of taking out the plaster and drywalling, or maybe we’ll just paint the cabinets instead of just buying new cabinets to install.” Some neighborhoods aren’t good for that. Like you have to do those things. You have to put in the work.
That’s why I love what I do, because I want to be able to help investors make those decisions to make them the most amount of money and really to stay in the game. I have investors that I’ve worked with for five or six years, and it’s awesome. I love watching them win. I love watching them succeed and continue to come back and buy more properties.
[00:29:20] DB: Oh! That is so good. One of the things I love about what you just said there – because, again, we’re on a podcast, but I’m nodding so much. One of the things I love about what you said is, you said earlier about, your ‘why’ and your goal drives your strategy. I feel like there’s a lot there about your goal too, and your strategy for doing this complete rehab. This total gut down to the exterior brick. I’m sure that drives the type of properties that you’re going out and searching for.
So a client, having those conversations with their agent at the very beginning, like “I’m only comfortable with a paint and carpet rehab” or “I am comfortable going all the way to the exterior brick and putting a $200,000 repair budget into this house.” I feel like that, foundationally, is one of the big things that will set a client up for success.
[00:30:08] LR: Totally. Your ‘why’ and your strategy can change over time. I mean, I wanted to make money. I’ve been very lucky to have been successful in the real estate world, and so now, it’s more of a passion and it’s more of like that – I think I called it an art. But that finished product, oddly enough, I ended up selling most of my rehabs to like an agent who has a friend, or we do a lot off market. I don’t want to drive by and see that house on fire six months later. I mean, I want that person to love the house that they live in. But again, my ‘why’ and my strategy evolved over time. That’s why sitting down with clients, even after a year or two years and say, “Hey! This is what we’ve done. What do you want to do moving forward?”
[00:30:57] NH: I love that. I think it’s a great segue. You talked about evolution or time or change your time. I mentioned in the intro, but you have some exciting news to share. Can you tell us a little about the new show? It should be going live right as this podcast comes out, I think.
[00:31:12] LR: Yeah. I mean, exciting news I think would be an understatement. But this is really honestly a dream come true. I have a new show that is airing on HGTV and streaming on Discovery Plus, the show is called Call the Closer. It airs Monday, November 8th, at 10:00 PM Eastern Time, 9:00 PM Central Time. It has been one of the wildest, most amazing adventures that I’ve ever been on.
I will never watch TV the same. I have mad respect for the people behind the camera. It takes an unbelievable amount of time, talent, money to make these things happen. I mean, we plop on the couch after a long day, turn the TV on. It’s like, you’re half watching, half working. But I mean, now, there’s so much that goes into it. When I say it’s one of the wildest experiences, I mean, I feel so blessed. I mean, it’s an unbelievable opportunity.
HGTV kind of got wind of me documenting the process with some of my clients, so in a perfect world, David or Nate, I can take you guys out, show you three houses. You love all three, let’s pick one, right? That doesn’t happen for everyone. I have some clients that are like 10-feet tall, and they don’t fit in any shower ever in any house. I have clients who have a very, very small budget, but very, very expensive taste. I mean, everyone has their situation. But probably, one out of six of my buyers cannot find what they’re looking for move-in ready, so I help them rehab the perfect house for them.
On Call the Closer, many of the clients, many of the buyers that come to me, they’ve been house hunting for months, even years, and have gone through multiple real estate agents by the time I meet with them. It’s me really helping them understand what it is they’re looking for, getting past their hang ups and out of that perpetual shopping mode, and just getting them to pull the trigger and buy a house. Let me help them make it the perfect house.
It’s so cool. I love my job. All aspects of it, I love my job and it’s going to be a pretty cool show. I’m very, very excited for it. Again, I’m super thankful, but I think it’ll be pretty entertaining to watch clients, what their hang ups are. I think a lot of people are going to relate to that. Maybe husband and wife even like nudging each other on the couch like, “That was you. That was you.” But yeah, I mean, it’s going to be awesome. It airs Monday, November 8th, on HGTV, streams on Discovery Plus. It’s going to be awesome.
[00:34:11] NH: That’s so cool. We’ll make sure to promote that heavily, so you can have a huge YFPRE fan base behind you.
[00:34:16] LR: Nice. That’s what I’m most terrified of, it’s like the experience was so cool, but I don’t want to be on TV. Then it’s like, “Well, then this is kind of an odd space to be.” It’s just, I mean, I guess I didn’t think this would come out in the podcast. But I mean, it’s a very vulnerable thing. I mean, you’re doing what you love doing, which is super cool. And the opportunity is great, but the reality is, is that you’re putting your life, your business and yourself out there for literally anyone who has cable or discovery plus to see, and you’re opening yourself to all that comes with that. It’s been nerve-wracking, but I think the opportunity will definitely outweigh any of the nerves or anxiety that have come along with it.
[00:35:00] NH: That’s super good perspective. David mentioned something to me early on when we were planning out this podcast for the very first time. We’re talking about what we’re going to talk about and how we’re going to approach things. He said something to me about a friend that he knew that had been on BiggerPockets Podcast a while back. He’s like, “Once you say it, once you put that out there, and you promote it, and you tell people to listen to it, and 30,000 people downloaded plus, it’s out there, you can’t take it back.”
I think that’s a super good point to like, it’s something you love doing, but it’s also – now, it’s out in front of everybody and you got to make sure you’re contained to that. It’s a big deal and I’m excited to watch the show. I think it’s going to be really cool.
[00:35:36] LR: Oh! Well, thank you. I mean, like I said, it’s cool. It’s rad. I mean, there’s so many funny things. There’s so many fun things. I had the best clients to work with. Every house is different. We did historic houses in St. Louis City. We did houses out in the county. I think it’s just going to show a variety of houses in St. Louis, and really show people how awesome St. Louis is. It is such a cool city and I’m really excited for the show to show people that. I mean, it’s a super cool city. And yeah, so fingers crossed, and we’ll see where this goes.
[00:36:14] NH: Good. I’m excited. That’s so cool. I love it. Hey! I want to jump to our final infusion questions. These are three questions we ask every guest on the show. Just want to get your take, kind of a rapid fire for you.
[00:36:24] LR: Oh no! Do I have a phone a friend or I guess, multiple choice?
[00:36:28] NH: No buzzers and no power ups. Sorry. No.
[00:36:31] LR: Oh! Wow! Okay.
[00:36:32] NH: We’ll probably start easy. The first question is, what’s one tangible strategy you use to make sure that you stay working on the business rather than in the business?
[00:36:40] LR: Oh! That’s an awesome question. That’s an awesome question. The answer is very, very clear. The second use of the question, what is the one thing that helps me stay working on my business, rather than in my business?
[00:36:57] NH: Correct. That’s exactly it. It’s more looking for strategies to make sure that it’s very easy to get lost in the day-to-day grind and just getting the next task done. It takes a lot of effort, I think, to step back, look at what you’re trying to accomplish, and figure out ways to improve that process. I call that working on the business rather than being stuck in the business.
[00:37:19] LR: Totally. In real estate, especially, it is very, very easy to get stuck working in your business and not on your business. I tell people all the time, I don’t have working hours. If I’m awake, I’m working. I work nights, weekends, mornings, whatever it is that a client needs. It’s very easy to get caught up in the business. The one way that myself and my team works on our business continually is time blocking. Whether you’re in real estate, regardless of what profession you’re in, to me, time blocking is the key to success.
It is so easy for me to just put my head down, run, run, pick my head up and it’s months later, and I’m like, “Oh my gosh!” Right? Every single week, I have three different two-hour chunks of time, time blocked, that that is my sacred time. There’s absolutely nothing that can trump that time, and that is working on my business.
It’s funny you asked that. I just had a legit heart-to-heart with one of my best contractors this week. He’s very frustrated, because he’s like, “Man, I put my heart and soul into working with clients. I work so hard and I feel like no one’s ever happy. I either go over on timeline or go over on budget and it’s just –” he’s like, “It’s just so hard and it’s so frustrating.” I asked him, I was like, “Hey! How often or how many hours a week do you time block?” He was like, “What do you mean?” I said, “Well, I mean, really what customers and what clients want to know is, they just want to be informed. Like how often are you time blocking to inform your clients?” He’s like, “Well, I mean, when they call, I talk to them.” I’m like, “No, no, no. Like setting up a time that every single week your clients know they’re going to get a call from you, and you’re going to follow that call with an email and let them know exactly where you’re at in that process.” He’s like, “Oh, that’s great.”
It seems like common sense, but when you’re busy and successful, if you’re not carving out the time to do that, it may seem like common sense, but you don’t have the time to do it. Time blocking for me is huge.
[00:39:31] NH: That’s a great tip. I love that.
[00:39:32] DB: Yeah. That’s really good. What’s one resource that’s been most helpful to you in your real estate journey, whether it’s a book, a podcast, a person, an author, a website, whatever that would be?
[00:39:43] LR: Yeah. My ADD plays a role in me not being able to read as many books as I would like. I get to the end and I’m like, “Shoot! Was I reading that whole time?” Because I was thinking about my business and clients and deals that are going on. Honestly, I find the most value from face-to-face, one on one time, notebook in hand taking notes.
I think the best resource that I’ve had in my business is reaching out to people who are successful in whatever it is I’m trying to learn. If it’s being a real estate agent, when I first started, I mean, I picked up the phone and called the big dogs. I looked to see who had the market share, who was doing business in the neighborhoods that I was familiar with and I just called. I said, “Hey! I’m new and I want to learn.” I think people are really nervous to do that, because they think that person is too busy, or they don’t know me, why would they want to help me?
Most successful people didn’t get to where they were on their own. They got there by having people around them to help. I mean, I probably have a handful of calls a week of people that have asked for help or that reach out and want mentorship, and it’s one of my favorite things to do. Because I definitely didn’t get to where I’m at on my own. For me, the best resource in both investing in real estate, flipping in real estate, and being a real estate agent, has been one on one conversations, meetings, lunch with the best in the industry.
[00:41:11] NH: Love that. We’ve not gotten that answer for us. That’s a good one. Appreciate that.
[00:41:14] LR: Yes!
[00:41:16 NH: All right. Number three then. What is one piece of advice you’d give to a pharmacist that’s contemplating a start in real estate investing? How does someone get started? What’s the one piece of advice you’d give them when they were jumping off?
[00:41:28] LR: I mean, if we’re talking about pharmacists here, I’d say the one piece of advice is, talk to Nate and David. I think that’s your jumping off point. No, I mean, for anyone who’s contemplating getting into real estate. I think just doing their due diligence and making sure it’s the right fit. I think that’s the same for pharmacists. I always think it’s funny when people – they find out I flip houses, or I’m a real estate agent, or I have some rentals. And they’re like, “Yeah, maybe I’ll get into real estate.” It’s like, “It’s not really that easy.” I even joke with people and I’m like, “If you like being stressed out and you cry every day, then real estate is probably a great fit.” It’s not that bad.
But I mean, I think doing your due diligence and finding out what that process looks like, and I think going back to the team, building a good team, having resources in play, I think is a good thing. If you’re looking to start in real estate, I think having a conversation with someone who’s been successful in whatever it is that you’re looking to do, whether it’s flipping houses, or building a rental portfolio. I think sitting down with a property manager, if you’re getting into rentals, and saying, “Hey! What can I expect as a new landlord?” And having those conversations, I think, is going to be the biggest thing. And then really, for a new investor, the best piece of advice is figuring out what your ‘why’ is, because it is a hard business. I joke around about being stressed out and crying, which was only half joking.
I think it’s a tough business. If it were easy, everyone would do it. I think you have to know what your ‘why’ is and you have to stick to that because it can get frustrating, and it can get difficult. But if you can fall back on that, ‘why’ you’re doing what you’re doing, I think that’s probably the biggest piece in continuing to be successful and continuing to move forward.
[00:43:18] DB: I love that. That’s so good.
[00:43:20] LR: But I do still think, the best piece of advice is, talk to Nate and David.
[00:43:25] DB: We appreciate the shameless plug. It’s perfect. Speaking of shameless plugs then, we want to give you one last opportunity. Where can people learn more about you and find your show?
[00:43:33] LR: So the show is Call the Closer. It’s on HGTV and it’s streaming on Discovery Plus. It is on Monday nights. The season premiere is Monday, November 8th at 10:00 PM Eastern Time, 9:00 PM Central Time. It will also stream on Discovery Plus and I think it will be an interesting show, something a little bit different than what people are used to. If you don’t like it, please do not reach out on social media and tell me that. That’s like my biggest fear. If you don’t like it, just please keep it to yourself and watch something different.
[00:44:08] NH: I love it. Like moms always say, “If you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all.”
[00:44:12] LR: Yes, please. Please and thank you. No, it’s a cool show. I think honestly, I mean, my favorite part and I’ll be watching all of the episodes with everyone else. I have not seen them. I was there to film them, but I have not seen them. I’m most excited about the buyers, the homeowners. There’s so many different types of people. We have the perfectionist. We have champagne taste on a beer budget. We have the anchor problem. One husband wants to stay. Wife wants to move. They can’t agree. We have all different out-of-town buyers that are looking at houses virtually and trusting me to be the feet on the street. This show, Call the Closer, really gets to know the buyers and really tells their story. I think that’s one of the best parts about this show.
[00:45:03] NH: Very cool. We’re really excited to see it. Lauren, really appreciate you coming on the show to talk all about real estate, talk about good investor-friendly agents. And again, just really pumped to see the new show when it comes out here very soon.
[00:45:15] LR: Yeah, thank you and thank you guys for having me. Nate, I know we’ve worked together for many years, and it’s been awesome and I love your guys’ podcast. I’m just really honored to be a guest on the show. So thank you.
[00:45:25] NH: Thank you. Thanks for being part of it. I can’t wait to send you another client to St. Louis.
[00:45:29] LR: Yes. This is so great. What a great night, a great podcast, and then a promise of future clients. Because everybody heard that, right?
[00:45:39] NH: Exactly.
[00:45:38] LR: Everybody did you hear that. Don’t cut that, okay?
[00:45:41] NH: I told you. Yeah, it’s on the record now.
[00:45:42] LR: It’s on the record.
[00:45:44] NH: All right, Lauren. Thanks again.
[00:45:47] LR: Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much.
[00:45:48] NH: Take care.
[00:45:48] DB: Thanks so much.
[00:45:50] LR: Bye. See you.
[OUTRO]
[00:45:51] ANNOUNCER: Thanks for listening to the YFP Real Estate Investing podcast. If you liked what you heard on today’s show, please leave us a review and subscribe to the show, so you never miss an episode. If you have a question, know someone who would make a good guest, or want to connect with Nate and David, head over to yfprealestate.com and join the growing YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook group.
As we conclude this week’s episode of the YFP Real Estate Investing podcast, an important reminder that the content in this podcast is provided to you for your informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for investment or any other advice. Information in the podcast and corresponding material should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any investment or related financial products. We urge listeners to consult with a financial advisor with respect to any investment.
Furthermore, the information contained in our archived newsletters, blog posts, and podcast is not updated and may not be accurate at the time you listen to it on this podcast. Opinions and analyses expressed herein are solely those of your financial pharmacist, unless otherwise noted and constitute judgments as of the dates publish. Such information may contain forward-looking statements which are not intended to be guarantees of future events. Actual results could differ materially from those anticipated in the forward-looking statements.
For more information, please visit yourfinancialpharmacist.com/disclaimer. Thank you again for your support of the Your Financial Pharmacist podcast. Have a great rest of your week.
[END]
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