Running the Rental Numbers with Blake and Zac
On this episode of the YFP Real Estate Investing Podcast, Blake Johnson, PharmD and Zac Hendricks discuss some of their motivations for getting into real estate investing, their networking strategy, tools they use to calculate if a deal is a good deal or a bad deal, and some remodeling tips.
About Today’s Guests
Blake Johnson, PharmD
Blake Johnson is a 2013 graduate of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences. Upon graduation, he married his wife Kristyn and he began working in a small town independent pharmacy. He worked there for 2 years and is now working in Conway, Arkansas at a local independent pharmacy. Upon graduation, Blake decided that paying off student loans would be a top priority, while still being able to travel and save for his retirement. After three and a half years, he was able to pay off his and his wife’s student loans. Since then, Blake has been able to increase his savings and start purchasing rental property. He now owns over 25 properties and has hopes to acquire more, while paying them all off early. In his spare time, he enjoys running, traveling as much as he can, and teaching others about finances.
Zac Hendricks
Zac Hendricks is a 2013 Bachelor’s of Business graduate from University of Central Arkansas with an emphasis on Innovation and Entrepreneurship. Zac worked as an intern for a financial advising firm while finishing his degree at UCA. This is when he bought his first property. Upon graduation Zac got a job working in logistics at Maverick Transportation. While moving up in the ranks at Maverick, he and his wife Mav purchased 7-8 more properties which eventually led to them finding financial freedom to change careers and working in the family business—Hendricks Remodeling. Zac and Mav find their most joy in using their business skills to fund missionaries in the 10/40 window and expanding the Kingdom of God.
Summary
Blake and Zac share their calculations and formulas for determining if a real estate deal is a good one, sharing calculators and deal resources that all investors can use to simplify the buying process. They also outline their motivations for targeting dilapidated homes and how the BRRRR method was a perfect fit for their strategy and business model.
Beyond the numbers and minutia of a deal, Blake and Zac discuss relationship building throughout the show. They share how they network with people everywhere for deals, all the way from the next-door neighbors to pharmacy clients. In addition to business and lead relationships, Blake and Zac mention how having a mentor in the real estate investing space, specifically one who is a little bit farther ahead in their real estate investing career, can make a huge impact in the experience of investing.
Some of the best advice that these investors share with pharmacists is to have a financial plan in place, then just start with your first property. Even if the deal is not the best, you can learn from it, improve upon mistakes, and be more successful in your next investment.
Mentioned on the Show
- Join the YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook Group
- YFP 168: How Blake and Zac Analyze Real Estate Deals
- YFP 082: Debt Free Theme Hour with the Teacher and Pupil
- Dave Ramsey
- Bigger Pockets Real Estate Podcast
- MLS Multiple Listing Search
- DealMachine
- Bigger Pockets: The 1% Rule in Real Estate: Is This a Realistic Way to Evaluate Rentals?
- Zillow Mortgage Calculator
- Bigger Pockets
- Bigger Pockets Forums
- Bigger Pockets Bookstore
- Baker’s Dirty Dozen: Principles for Financial Independence by Joe Baker, MBA with Lindsey Jordan Baker
- Email Blake Johnson at [email protected]
- Connect with Hendricks Remodeling Co.
- YFP Real Estate Investing
Episode Transcript
Nate Hedrick: Hey, David, how’s it going, sir?
David Bright: Hey, good, thanks. How are you doing, man?
Nate Hedrick: I am good. I am busy. This market is insane. I have been working more than I want to as a real estate agent recently, but that’s OK, helping my clients out. So it’s just nuts. What about you guys?
David Bright: Yeah, we’ve got a property we’re thinking about listing right now. We’re just trying to figure out what to do in this market because you’re right, it’s different right now, right? Like it’s really hard to get listings accepted. What kind of stuff are you seeing right now?
Nate Hedrick: It’s great for my listings, right? So I’ve got a listing actually coming up — actually, it will drop the day this podcast goes live, which is cool. So that listing is nice because listings right now are a little bit easier than they normally are, right? Lots of people coming through, lots of buyers available. But with my buyer clients, it’s been a ton of work. It’s a lot of showings, it’s a lot of putting in offers, a lot of those offers not being accepted. We’re struggling with the buyers right now.
David Bright: Yeah, and I saw that there was something that went on the YFP Real Estate Investing Facebook group about some strategies to get those offers accepted and all that. So if you’re not a part of that Facebook group yet, I’d encourage you to jump in there. There’s always discussions and learning that’s going on there as well.
Nate Hedrick: Yeah, that’s a great point. We actually had an offer accepted luckily this past weekend, and we had to do an escalation clause, an appraisal gap coverage, and we took our inspections — we didn’t waive our inspections, but we said our inspections would be informational only, which means that we can’t ask for repairs. We can back out of the deal if we find something scary, but we can’t go back to the seller and say, “Hey, we want you to fix some of this stuff.” So it’s a very, very crazy market right now.
David Bright: Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of strategy going on there, and I think unpacking that in the Facebook group where there’s different people that you can bug for advice and ideas can be really helpful.
Nate Hedrick: Speaking of advice, David, how about our guest this week? We’ve got Episode 03, we had Blake and Zac back. They were on a previous YFP episode, Episode 168, and so we brought them back on because they are — they are just blowing it up in the real estate world, and so we had to make sure we brought them on. They’re really encouraging. We had a great time talking to these guys. They’re all about the networking, they’re all about the partnerships, it was a really easy conversation I think that our audience is really going to like this one.
David Bright: Yeah, and they had a fun story in there, speaking of like the phone-a-friend, asking for ideas, where they literally just did text a mentor of theirs and they were just in a bind, trying to figure out what to do, and the mentor gave them a fantastic idea that ended up being huge for them, turned the deal around, and made it a huge success. So stay tuned for that story in the middle. That’s kind of a fun one.
Nate Hedrick: Definitely. And if you want some practical tips, especially getting started — because I think even in this market, in really any time when you’re trying to get started, get off the ground, get that first property, it’s really hard to get practical, what can I do next tips. And they give some really great stuff at the end about that getting started, about how to act on those first steps down the road, which was really cool.
David Bright: Yeah, they had one other thing in there about doing the math for a real estate investment for a long-term rental and how to make that simple and straightforward, how to get through that without the analysis paralysis. So even when we talked about some other fancier ideas and ways that some people do this, they just have some pretty straightforward numbers that make this just really simple to think through. And I think that’s especially helpful for someone that’s trying to get out of the gate.
Nate Hedrick: Yeah. It’s a great episode. So I hope you guys enjoy it. And we’ll take you to the interview now.
Nate Hedrick: Hey, Blake, Zac, welcome to the show.
Blake Johnson: Hey, how’s it going?
Zac Hendricks: How’s it going?
Nate Hedrick: Thanks so much for being here, really appreciate it.
Blake Johnson: Glad to join you guys.
Nate Hedrick: Yeah, well, we had you back on the YFP main show back on Episode 168. And we just knew, you know, based on your story, based on what you guys have been doing, the growth we’ve seen from you guys, we just had to have you back. So we’re really excited to have you here.
Zac Hendricks: Thanks for inviting us.
Blake Johnson: Appreciate the invite. Always enjoy it.
Nate Hedrick: So for those that didn’t hear Episode 168 or haven’t checked it out yet, can we start with your pharmacy story a little bit? I think one of our main loading dose questions here at the YFP Real Estate Investing podcast is to get the pharmacy story first, and then we’ll dive into the real estate stuff next.
Blake Johnson: So I have worked in pharmacy since I was 18. I’m 33 now, so pretty much my whole life I’ve been doing this thing. Went to pharmacy school at University of Arkansas, graduated in 2013 and I’ve done community pharmacy ever since. Currently I work at a independent pharmacy in a town called Conway, which is north of Little Rock, about 30 minutes north. It’s your typical mom-and-pop pharmacy. Really enjoy it. Been doing that for a long time and hopefully I’m there for a lifetime.
David Bright: I love it, I love it. I grew up in the drugstore world too, and so I love hearing community pharmacy, that love for community pharmacy coming through. So that’s awesome.
Blake Johnson: Really enjoy it.
David Bright: Could you tell us a little bit about your why behind real estate, how you got started, why you’re doing it, and what you’re doing now?
Blake Johnson: So I had — if you’ve listened to the original YFP podcast, I was on there with Joe Baker, one of the — I don’t even know what number episode it was, but he taught a financial pharmacy literacy class during our third year. And I took that, and at the time, I was just blowing money. You know, you take out the maximum amount of loans and just buy whatever the heck you wanted. And I was a pro at that, so I had his class and at the same time, I was dating a girl and she gave me a Dave Ramsey book. So between Dave Ramsey and Joe Baker, it was a match made in heaven. I became frugal and turned my head around. So I graduated, had a lot of debt, and we started paying off debt pretty heavy, paid off my loans and my wife’s loans from nurse practitioner school in about three years and just saw that the amount of money I was putting back for retirement wouldn’t do me a lick of good if I ever wanted to do anything before I was 65 or I guess technically 59.5. So I started reading some books, started listening to Bigger Pockets. And Zac and I met at church, and it’s been there ever since.
Zac Hendricks: My wife and I had been investing since 2014. We’d kind of moved around for a little while with my work and then long story short, in 2014, we started investing and then by the time we met Blake, I think we had seven or eight properties. And Blake was like, ‘Man, I really want to do this.’ And he had this deal that was like 10 units in a town east of here. And I was like, that sounds like a cool deal. He had like a partner lined up. Anyways, it fell through and he was like, ‘Dude, let’s just get some properties. Let’s just do something.’ And I was like, ‘Alright, tell you what, if you find something,’ because I’d invested with my dad, I’d invested with my wife, and so I’d kind of like already had — I was real weary of partnerships. And I was like, I don’t really know, but if you can bring a deal to the table, like sure, you know, I’ll partner with you and we’ll go through it. And then later on, when we had one property together, and then you and your wife can figure it out after that. We’ll just do one together. So we — the first deal he found on Craigslist of all places. And it was like five units that we went to look at, five properties we went to look at, and three of them were trash. I mean, completely just awful. Looked like an idiot had remodeled them. But they at least had some good pieces of them. So we ended up out of those five, we ended up buying two and remodeled them and after like the first month, his wife was bought in, Kristen was bought in, she was like, ‘Alright, let’s do this thing.’ So then we kind of all just kind of kept going from there. We had a realtor that Blake was friends with that just kept bringing us deals. Bought probably six that first year and then probably six or seven the next year. Anyway, so I think we have 25 units now together.
Nate Hedrick: That’s incredible. I mean, like I said, your story just in this short amount of time that you guys have been doing this, it’s just explosive. I think that’s awesome. I think one of the things, the first thought that jumps to my mind before we get into any hard numbers is, how did you fund all of that? Right? You know, I think a lot of people say, ‘Well, I figured out this process of getting a deal,’ deal finding is obviously difficult, but you’ve kind of solved that with a good real estate agent and good Craigslist searching it sounds like. But how do you fund some of those deals and keep the train rolling?
Zac Hendricks: I’ll speak to that first. Whenever my wife and I first started, we were putting 15-20% down every deal. So it was just super slow. It was like one a year if that. You know, it was just like — we couldn’t — and so after three or four, my banker, I was like, “Hey, how do people buy so many houses? Like I’m hearing these people buying.” And so Bigger Pockets, they were talking about one time like rehab loans and BRRRR strategy, Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat, and I was like, how do you do that, though? And he was like, ‘Well, you’ve got to buy something that’s pretty crappy and then fix it up, and I’ll loan like 85% of the value.’ I was like, oh. And like I’d basically be able to leave — like I’ll be able to get my money back out. He’s like, yeah, basically. He’s like, if you do it, but you’ve got to do it right. So I was like, alright. So we got one, my wife and I got one like that. And then we haven’t — I don’t think we’ve bought a single ready-to-go house since then. That was back in 2016 I think. And so then whenever me and Blake met, we’d already kind of started doing that. I have a remodeling background, and so — and that’s what I do full-time now is remodel houses. So we were like, alright, we’ve got to find these really crappy houses and then we can get the deals to work out for us a little better. So do you want to speak about how the numbers work on that?
Blake Johnson: Yeah, when we started, you asked where we found them. We started buying them before all that COVID stuff just through realtors. But I don’t know if it’s like where most other U.S. like it is in Arkansas. You cannot find anything on the MLS right now. So we’ve transitioned in the last year from just straight MLS, we’ve gone to — we’ve started sending out letters, driving — I guess they call it driving for dollars, so we’ve started using an app called Deal Machine. So we’ll send postcards. We’ve got a few lawyers that we know that they’ll send us estate deals on them. So we’ve gotten a few that way. So it’s really just networking because right now, anything that’s on the MLS, I mean, for our model, just isn’t really working at all. So we’ve had to do more hybrid off-market deals and do the work ourselves to be able to get in $0 down.
Zac Hendricks: Well, and Blake being a community pharmacist really helps because he’s like, ‘Oh yeah, I’ve got like 10 lawyers that come through. I’ll just talk to them.’ And then because I’m from here — I’m from the town we’re in, they’re like, ‘Oh yeah, yeah, we know the Hendrickses,’ you know. So then it’s like we kind of just work really well together in that regard. So we ended up — the connections he makes through the pharmacy just kind of end up getting us deals.
Blake Johnson: So the BRRRR strategy for us is what really worked out. That was — finding homes for us wasn’t your typical just list it, move in, put a renter in. Ours were the houses that were dilapidated that need roofs, need flooring, needed paint, needed cabinets, just the things that the normal person would walk in and walk right out. What was nice for us if you find these, you can buy them at a cheap enough price that the bank will give you an improvement typically if you buy it right off-market or back in the day off MLS, you can get it at a good enough price to get your improvements in the loan that the bank offers. You buy the house, you do all your improvements, and then on the back end, you just rent it out and refinance your money. That strategy has worked real good for us. But we’ve had to get off-market stuff.
Nate Hedrick: Yeah, because that allows you to repeat that capital and just keep the trend rolling, which is the whole goal, which is awesome. So that’s great. It’s cool because, you know, Zac, you mentioned you basically just went to the bank and you didn’t have to know everything, right? You went to them and said, “How do people do this? Like here’s what I want to do, help me get there.” And like you said, good networking, good communication and just simply asking that question, you guys got to where you are today. So that’s incredible.
Blake Johnson: I always found that finding a home was the hard thing — or the easy thing to do. I can talk a horse dead. Finding stuff’s fine for me. But the hard part as a pharmacist is you just analyze every little detail. So I think when I first started back in 2017 reading about this, I looked at probably 15-20 deals before Zac and I even talked about it. And it took me a year and a half just to do it. So for me, I think finding the deal is the easy part. I think it’s capitalizing on that first step of buying the property, that’s the hard part.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, I think most people — I would agree with that because most people, pharmacists, not pharmacists, doesn’t matter really who you are, it’s so risky — it seems so risky and you overanalyze everything before you get your first deal. And then after you get your first one, you’re like, wow, that’s not that big of a deal.
David Bright: No, that’s a great springboard because one of the things we wanted to spend some time on today is how do you analyze that deal? How do you know what is a deal? How do you know whether you should jump at this or whether you should hang back? So I know that rings true in pharmacy where mathematical accuracy is a really big deal for patient care and certainly can be a big deal with making sure that a deal works in real estate. So can you walk us through a little bit of what makes a deal a good deal? What are the kind of things you look for that tips you off that I think this is one worth doing some deep math on? And then let’s take a minute and do some of that math.
Blake Johnson: I guess you want to start out maybe talking about some terminology used to break down how we analyze, and then I guess we can go from there.
David Bright: That would be great.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, typically what we do is we’re looking for a minimum of $100 profit at the end of the month on a deal.
Zac Hendricks: But describe the $100. That sounds like terrible.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, $100 sounds like not good at all. So basically what we’re looking at is we’re taking a deal, so say a house rents for $1,000 a month. We’re going to take 10% off of that typically for property management. We do all of our own stuff in house for property management, but if something ever happens and we can’t do that, you want to be able to pass that over to a property manager. So automatically we take 10% when we run the numbers off the rent. And then we also like to take 10% for capex. Capex is just short for capital expenditures, but basically that means as you own the home, you’re going to have a roof go out, you’re going to have a hot water heater go out, you’re going to have A/C go out. So this is just built in savings into rent that you can sit back and just be able to pay for that stuff down the road. So that’s 10% for capex, 10% for property management. And then we always like to throw in a couple percentage points in there for vacancy. Depending on where you’re at, that can vary. In Conway, there’s hardly any, so we usually run about 3% vacancy. Sometimes we’ll run 5% if it’s a duplex, but majority of the houses I rent, it’s around 3%. So what we’ll do is we’ll take that $1,000 rent, take 23-25% off of it so that 25% off of that would be $750. And if that would pay for the taxes, the insurance and the mortgage, we can still clear $100 a month. It seems like a good deal to us.
Zac Hendricks: And part of that, the reason we chose that number, $100, is we said, “Hey, we want to be super aggressive.” So some people were saying, people were met with were like, ‘Oh man, I wouldn’t even look at anything if it was renting for — it was cash flowing less than $500, $400.’ We said, you know, we just aren’t seeing that in our market that you can get that. Maybe sometime, but I mean, we’re buying some pretty good deals and they’re not cash flowing after we take out all we take out. And so we said, you know, at the end of the day, we know that the houses we’re buying, we’re going to get the four benefits of real estate, which is we’re going to get a little bit of cash flow, we’re going to get appreciation, we’re going to get the tax benefits, and we’re going to have somebody paying down the mortgage, so the loan paydown. So we said, you know, $100 doesn’t sound like a lot, but whenever you plug all those other numbers in, the loan paydown, the appreciation, the tax benefits, it’s astronomically higher than $100. So and we’ve seen — and we’ll talk about it later, but we’ve seen that just holding onto a house for a few years with the loan paydown alone and a little bit of appreciation, it benefits so you can then turn it around and buy a different house for way more cash for whatever. So the $100 might not sound like a lot to a lot of the listeners. The other benefits of real estate exist within that.
Blake Johnson: You can take those numbers too if you were just a single pharmacist with one or two homes, I mean, that same model, if you’re buying a turnkey property, it rents for $1,000 and say you’re — you know, the taxes and insurance and the payment on it is only like $650 a month, literally you’re clearing $350 if you’re doing that yourself. So that’s $4,000 a year in just money coming your way. So if you look at it that way, I mean, it’s already done. Every 10 years, you might have a $5,000 growth. You might just cash flow that yourself. So even that, for us, I think we could take that and apply that just to a single individual buying them just a couple properties too.
Nate Hedrick: I really like that. And what I especially like is that you guys came up with a plan and found deals that fit that plan, right? Instead of going out there and just looking at every single house, trying to run numbers across the board, trying to work in 16 different areas, like that’s overwhelming. And I think that’s why a lot of analysis paralysis occurs is because people get lost in these numbers. What you guys did is you said, we need $100 a month, and ideally it’s going to be in a property that we can rehab. Like you had a plan from the beginning and then you went and found deals that fit that model, which I think is awesome.
Blake Johnson: The problem we had in the beginning, we didn’t even use this model. We used what Bigger Pockets calls the 1% Rule. So if you buy something for $100,000, you want $1,000 a month. But the fact that that leaves out is interest rates. So when we were borrowing at the time, interest rates were like 6.75%, sometimes 7%. Well, right now, the 1% Rule, sure, you can get that almost on anything. And you’re going to cash flow really good. But I mean, a lot of times, depending on the market you’re in, the interest rate is not going to fluctuate with the rent. You’ve got to have a good filter taking into play that interest rate. So that’s why that number, because your payment is always going to fluctuate with the interest rate. So that worked for our model really well.
Nate Hedrick: And I agree, I have trouble with the 1% Rule in certain areas that I’m looking because the taxes are very high. And that totally messes up the 1% Rule. Like the rents actually are much higher, but if the taxes are really high, then it can mess that too as well. So yeah, it’s a good point. And so I guess one of the things I do want to mention that you guys talked about is you talked about getting that tax and insurance information, really peeling this back for a second for some of our listeners, you know, how do you go out and get that information from taxes to what’s the insurance going to cost? Like is that on Zillow? How do I know that going into a deal?
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, so we go on the — in our county, it’s all public, so — for taxes. So you go to the county assessor’s website and just type in the address. So that’s how we get property taxes. And then we inflate it a little bit because usually it’s a homeowner, and they’re getting like a homestead tax credit or whatever, so it’s a little bit lower for them. So we’ll just inflate it a little bit. If it’s already an investment property, then we just use that same number. And then for insurance, what we did starting out — well, starting out, I just threw a number off the head, said, ‘Hey, my homeowners’ insurance is this much,’ my house at the time was about the same size, so it was kind of like, eh, it’s probably the same price range. So I was like, I’m probably going to be in this range. Then we got a really good relationship with an insurance agent, just started texting him, “Hey, can you just run quick numbers on this? You know all of our parameters for insurance. We want the best coverage, all this stuff. What’s it going to be?” And so once we kind of got in the swing of how they work, we kind of, we were able to throw in numbers a lot easier. Now our insurance is all —
Blake Johnson: It’s all run a corporate line.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, it’s all the same now.
Blake Johnson: I think the best bit for us — and I’m probably going to get kicked from this from some of my friends, but we didn’t go with your captured agencies. I’m not going to name them, but you know who they are. We went with an independent broker because you get locked into these single-line insurance agencies, I mean, you get one price. And so we’ve been with our insurance agent, and he can shop across probably 20 different agencies and get you a whole lot better price.
Zac Hendricks: We just added a property, and it’s just the same.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, now we’re on a one corporate line, so all of our stuff’s pretty inexpensive because it’s on a high deductible. But before that, he would shop it across like five different insurance companies for us. And he would get quotes back in a day. But that was the biggest thing that we decided is not going to — I guess they call them captured agents. And I’m going to get kicked from some friends for saying this. But anyways, that saved us a lot of money in the long run.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, a lot of your customers probably.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, probably a lot of my customers. Anyways, that was the biggest benefit for us. So play out to the independent agents.
David Bright: You also mentioned that the capex in there, and you guys are in a very different market than I am up here in Michigan. It’s not super common for rental units up here to have air conditioning, and I’m assuming where you’re at, that’s a must. So you know, I think that there’s probably some market differences, but how do you figure out like is that 10% always a good number? Or is it like a big four-bedroom house is going to be different than a little two-bedroom? Or like how do you put all that together?
Zac Hendricks: We use the same number. We use the same 10%. You know, probably should make some adjustments, but usually — not every time, but usually when we buy a house, we automatically put a new roof on, we automatically switch out the HVAC and water heater. And usually — well, nowadays, we’re doing sewer lines because we’ve had such bad issues with sewer lines going bad. Whenever you have a renter in a house on a crawl space, and your sewer line busts underneath the house and they smell that stuff for so long, it’s like alright, we’re just going to start changing out sewer lines before anybody moves in. So we had like two go out in 2019, and we were like, yeah, we’re never doing this again.
Blake Johnson: Never again. No.
Zac Hendricks: So we kind of, we’re trying to make them — we buy a lot of old houses, and so can you cover everything ahead of time? You can probably can and spend a fortune, but we try to get as much as we can ahead of time. So the 10% we use, it’s a pretty good number. But probably need to adjust it sometimes if you go from 1,000-square foot to a 1,700 square-foot, that roof’s going to be drastically more expensive. And the HVAC is going to be a couple thousand dollars more.
Blake Johnson: But your rents fluctuate what with the size. So I mean four-bedroom house versus three-bedroom, $1,200 versus $1,500. So that’s $300 a month, that’s $3,600 a year. If you’re only having to buy stuff every 5-10 years, that’s an extra $15,000 in your captured rent. So that percentage kind of goes across sets.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, you’re right.
Blake Johnson: Kind of takes care of you.
Nate Hedrick: I like that. And I like the tip about the new roof and the new mechanicals. Any other tips that you guys have of things that you do to make your rentals low-maintenance over time?
Blake Johnson: You’ve got the remodeler here. That’s not my expertise.
Zac Hendricks: And I’ve taken a lot of advice. We have a friend that’s 15-20 years older than us I guess, and he’s been in the business way longer than us. We’ve taken a lot of advice from him, and he was the one that was like, ‘Man, before you put a tenant in there, roof, HVAC, water heater.’ He was even saying like, ‘Man, if my roof, it’s just five years old, I’ll just go ahead and replace it when I buy it just to have it brand new right whenever he gets it.’ We don’t do that. If it’s five years old, we’re like, sweet, we’ve got one that’s new. But you know, we do like with flooring, we use vinyl plank. We’ve had a couple with hardwoods that are already have hardwood, so there’s hardwoods under carpet, and so we have somebody either refinish the floors — we bought two properties from this guy that, he’s a landlord and anyways, he painted the hardwoods. So we were like, why would you paint hardwoods? And then we realized when we were remodeling the house, I went and I had a college kid I hired and said, ‘Hey, just roll the paint on. Just go ahead and touch it up.’ Cost me like $75 to do the floors. It’s like, alright, this is why the dude painted the hardwoods. Like that’s so easy. If we just do that every time somebody moves out, you know, so I would not recommend that because gosh, you’re taking some beautiful hardwood floors and that really hurts me to paint hardwood floors, but since it was already done, that was an awesome tip from another landlord that we got.
Blake Johnson: Another tip too, when you paint floors, we found out he brushed them, he didn’t roll out. He spent eight hours like meticulously brushing them.
Zac Hendricks: That was my fault. I gave him a paintbrush, and I was like — I meant to tell him, ‘Hey, go get a roller,’ and I just never did. So he just thought, I’ll just brush all this. It was like 1,200 square feet of floors that we hand painted with a paintbrush. Anyways, he’s a great friend. Love the dude. Glad he did it.
Blake Johnson: We’re all still friends after that.
Zac Hendricks: We bought him some beer I’m sure.
Nate Hedrick: I’m just picturing as an agent trying to explain to a potential buyer, like I’m not sure why they painted these hardwood floors. I bet you could fix that. That conversation would go terribly, I can tell you.
Zac Hendricks: Oh yeah. It blew me away when I first saw them. And I was like, oh, $75.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, $75.
Zac Hendricks: I’ll tell you one thing that a lot of people skimp out on is countertops. A lot of people go with your laminate or Formica, post-form, whatever you want to call it, plastic countertops. And we’ve had so many issues with some of those old Formica countertops where — because tenants don’t care. Like they’ll just put hot stuff on them, and then it bubbles up and has issues. You know, granite is in our market, we can get it for fairly cheap, depends on who you use I guess, but you can get it for fairly cheap, and you can get some cheaper ends of the granite market. And you know, we can replace in a house, we can do it for a couple thousand bucks granite countertops. I mean, yeah, you’ve got to seal them, there’s still things you’ve got to take care of on granite countertops, but tenants are much better with granite than they are with plastic. I mean, you can put hot stuff on granite, you can — I mean, spill stuff and it’s not the end of the world if there’s an extra stain, granite has so many specks in it already, it’s kind of already busy. And so if they have a stain on it, that’s not a big deal. So you just seal them after every tenancy, as long as your tenants are moving out every couple years. Now, if somebody stays there for 10 years, you probably want to go in there and reseal them, but that’s kind of, that’s one of probably one of the best things we started doing, which is putting granite in every rental property. And also, you can command a higher rent because you have granite countertops in there.
Nate Hedrick: I was going to ask if that helped with rent or if it helped with your refi numbers too.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah.
Blake Johson: Yeah, I think for refi, it helps out a ton. People love that.
Nate Hedrick: Especially when the appraiser’s running comps, it just gives you better market — or better properties to look at and gives you a better price point.
Zac Hendricks: Exactly, because a lot of the flippers in town are using high-end stone countertops, and so if we’re kind of in that — I mean, they’re commanding a way higher appraisal value with some of the flips they do because they just put really high-end stuff in them. So you know, if we have stone and they have stone, then there’s a comparable.
Blake Johnson: Same thing with the vinyl plank too. You can pull up a 5,000-square foot house, and you’re going to see listed as a plus luxury vinyl plank. So that and granite just makes your house look just as nice.
Zac Hendricks: And the wear and tear makes a huge difference for vinyl plank too, which I don’t want to get too nitty-gritty here because I can nerd out on vinyl plank, the thicker — you know, if you get it from like Lowes or Home Depot, you’re going to get a really thin wear layer. So what we found is we have a lumber company in town, it’s just a local lumber company. And they have some really high quality vinyl plank for cheap. But the wear layer is a lot thicker. And so it doesn’t scratch quite as easy. I mean, it might scratch, but it kind of can buff out a lot easier. It takes a lot longer to get through. You kind of have to look at all that because you can go to Lowes and buy the same price per square foot vinyl plank, and it’s going to be a lot worse quality. And so at one point, we were spending a lot of money on vinyl plank at Lowes, and I was like, I called my distributor, I was like, ‘How much is this that y’all have?’ And he was like, ‘Oh, it’s like $2 a foot.’ Gosh, I’m spending $2.50 or $3 at Lowes for a worse product. So I’m sure Lowes has some really good products as well, but I ended up finding one that worked better for us.
Blake Johnson: We’re not doing good for y’all’s plugs there. We’ve already manhandled Lowes and Home Depot and all the captured agents. Hope y’all blur these out, we’re not helping you guys out much.
Zac Hendricks: Just beep it out like a cuss word.
Blake Johnson: I might have a long line at the pharmacy in about three weeks, guarantee it.
Nate Hedrick: Right, right. No, I see David taking notes over there because our next flip, we’re going to be looking at this alternative distributors for our vinyl plank flooring, so I think that’s perfect.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, there you go.
David Bright: Absolutely. Well, what I love about it is you’re building just a recipe. You’re just building the cookbook for like this is how we do it. We do it this way every time. It’s just super simple, I don’t have to think about it. I just build the plan, I execute the plan. There’s a real beauty there in the simplicity of what you guys are building.
Blake Johnson: It’s pretty boring. We go — I mean, even down to the same paint color. I mean, we just have like 5-gallon buckets of paint, so carried it in this house, same color floor.
Zac Hendricks: Just kind of move it around.
Blake Johnson: Same everything. So it’s just fix the bones and make everything look the same.
Zac Hendricks: Light fixtures are all the same pretty much. Sometimes our wives get involved and want to pick out some nice-looking light fixtures, but usually we just get the same ones.
Nate Hedrick: Well, I want to take a step back, and I want to run some numbers. I think we’ve been talking a lot about these great tips, and I think that’s just — it’s an awesome, awesome view into what you guys do and the experience that you have. But for our listeners that are thinking, OK, how do I get my first deal? I want to run some numbers and walk through what that looks like so we can feel good about it. So do you have a deal that we can walk through just some of the hard math on?
Blake Johnson: Yeah, I’ve got a couple deals. I’ve got one I think that will really be easy to walk through.
Nate Hedrick: So lay it out for me. What was the purchase price? What was the projected rent? You know, did you do a rehab on it, things like that?
Blake Johnson: Yeah, I’ll go through the numbers and kind of let Zac talk about the remodel because this was a bigger remodel, but it worked out pretty good. So we bought this house for $51,000. If you’re in California, that would be probably a quarter of a lot out there.
Nate Hedrick: Right.
Blake Johnson: But this was actually a three-bedroom, two-bath house here. It was in pretty rough shape. The repair budget on it was $54,000.
Nate Hedrick: Oh wow.
Blake Johnson: So the repairs on the house is actually more than the purchase. So our total loan on that was $100,000. And we’d appraised out at $150,000. Right there, we had $50,000 forced equity. It will rent out at about $1,200 a month. So I think the payment on that will come out to be like $650-700 at $100,000. It may be $650 with everything included. But our net on that will be a couple hundred bucks. It was actually a pretty good deal.
Nate Hedrick: Yeah, that’s a great deal. It breaks the 1% Rule that we talked about earlier not being as important.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, it breaks the 1% Rule.
David Bright: Yeah.
Nate Hedrick: It crushes it.
Zac Hendricks: Finding that one was interesting too — and I’ll talk a little bit — that kind of goes into the repairs and analyzing the deal when we first looked at it. So it’s actually right next to the first house we bought. And so we’d been beside this house for two years now, and nobody was there. So I was like, man, this house is vacant, another year goes by, the house is vacant. So at that point, I just started researching. So I called the guy that owns it, and he was like, “Yeah, I actually owner-financed it to so-and-so, so here’s his number.” So I was like, there’s nobody in there so I don’t know how he’s just paying you I guess. So I called him, this was probably 2019 I called him.
Blake Johnson: Yeah.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah. And he goes, he was like, “No, I’m remodeling it.” He owned a foundation company and he was remodeling. And I was like, “Sweet. That’s awesome. Just holler at me if you need anything or whatever, if you ever want to sell.” So another year — I think another year goes by, maybe six months, eight months, somewhere in there and still vacant. Nobody’s worked on it. I live around the corner from it, so I knew like nobody’s there. And so I finally called him again and he’s like, “Yeah, OK. I’ll consider selling it.” So I met with him, and I got to the house, and he was like, “Yeah, my wife’s actually pretty upset about it that I still have this house and we haven’t gotten it rented out yet. We’ve got to get rid of this thing. She’s pretty upset.” So I was like, “Hey, you know, I can take care of that. No problem.” So started looking at it, he’s like, “Man, I’ve done all the foundation work on it.” So basically brand new foundation. He owns a really high-end foundation company in town. His cousin owned an electrical — electric company. So he put all new wiring in it. He had a new panel box, everything. Another cousin of his or friend, somebody, owned an HVAC company, so they put a brand new HVAC service in it I think about five years ago. Everything was in. He’d furred down the ceiling to get new ducts run into the house, so everything was super, super updated. But it just wasn’t finished. So like we walked in, it was a war zone. I mean, there’s holes in the subfloors where they’d been doing some plumbing work. And like there’s no sheetrock on the ceiling or walls. The windows are busted out because I guess they had some vandalism since it had been vacant for a couple years. So we were like, “Man, what are you trying to get out of this thing?” He was like, “All I want is what I have in it.” And so we were like, “OK, sure.”
Nate Hedrick: Wow.
Zac Hendricks: So he sold it for $51,000, and so we just said, “Sure, we’ll go for it.” We’d looked at enough deals I guess at that point where we just kind of ran some pretty quick numbers on what it would cost to fix it up, and we ended up doing a little bit more than what we planned on. I wasn’t going to do all new cabinets, and then it was just turning into a beautiful house and so I said, “Man, we’re just going to do new cabinets.” So — and we had some rot underneath the cabinets. We were going to have to pull them anyways. So ended up doing new cabinets, that added probably about $3,000. The guys that work for us built them, so it wasn’t too bad of a deal.
Blake Johnson: And the value add in that too, I don’t know if he mentioned, it was a three-one. Three-bedroom, one-bath.
Zac Hendricks: Oh yeah.
Blake Johnson: So in our market, three-bedroom, one-bath, you’re renting probably $1,000, three-two, $1,200. And so —
Zac Hendricks: So we added a bath.
Blake Johnson: If you follow the 1% Rule, 1% on $200 is $20,000. To add that bathroom was only $10,000.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, I forgot to mention that we added a bathroom.
Blake Johnson: So that was a good investment for us on that end to add that. Did you guys want to like break down using the percentages on that deal? Like start with the rent and talk about the insurance and all that?
Nate Hedrick: Yeah, sure, if you don’t mind. I think that would give us just the clarity of where all these numbers are going and you can see how you get to that bottom line number of here’s how much we’re actually putting back in our pocket every month.
Blake Johnson: Every deal that we get, we get an in-house balloon note. I’m sure that’ll be talked about on the show sometime. So basically, our notes are five years long, and the bank amortizes them over 20 years. So if you take your typical home mortgage, they’re amortized over 30, the notes that we’re getting are amortized over 20. If you’re looking at our payment on the house, the insurance on this house was going to be roughly $650 and the taxes are about $650. So if you ran those in, always use Zillow calculator, plugging Zillow for you guys. It’s a really good calculator. If you plug that in there, the house with the insurance and taxes is about $700 a month. That’s our payment on the house. And so if you take the 1% Rule and take the 20% off of that, or the 25% off of that, so $1,200 times .75 would be $840. And then you take the payment off.
Zac Hendricks: $730.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, $730. So we net $110. This one, we do in-house property management, and so right now, we can run it at 80-82%. So on our end, it’s netting almost a couple hundred dollars. But worst case scenario, we can hand this deal over to a property manager and still net our $100 a month.
Nate Hedrick: That’s fantastic. Yeah, that’s awesome. I really appreciate you guys walking through that.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, you bet.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, you’re welcome.
David Bright: So that kind of leads me to the next question of this is definitely it sounds like a success story. You were able to get this thing, have a lot of built-in equity, you were able to get the loan, pull your money back out, at the end of the day it’s producing cash flow for you. It really sounds like a winner of a deal. Have you ever had something that wasn’t so much of a winner? And what do you do when you get something like that?
Blake Johnson: We had — we bought this house that we thought was going to be the best house in town. I don’t know if you all have ever been there, you see this and you’re like, this is going to be a great deal. It sat two houses back off one of the busiest streets in Conway, right in front of it was like that park where all moms go to hang out with their kids. I mean, it was picturesque.
Zac Hendricks: The city just put a new splash pad in. Don’t know if y’all’s cities have those, but in the summertime, these kids go — I mean, it’s just a massive splash pad where the kids can just run around and play. So we were like, man, brand new, state-of-the-art tennis courts just built across the street. We’re like, this thing is going to be incredible.
Blake Johnson: So we bought it and actually got a pretty good deal on it. I think we were all in on the house at about $100,000. And we got to rent it, and we listed it for I think $1,150, $1,100. Two weeks went by, and we didn’t hear anything. Dropped it down about $1,000. Two weeks went by, still didn’t hear anything. We ended up renting it out at $950. If you were to take that same house and move it probably two streets over off the busy street, it would have gone for $1,200 in a day.
Nate Hedrick: Wow.
Blake Johnson: No kidding. We held onto that house for two years.
Zac Hendricks: Two years, yeah. What kind of got us out of that house was we had a guy that I worked for a long time ago, it’s a pharmacist, I was a pharmacy tech at the time back in college. And then his partner was a pharmacy tech that I worked with. So they actually contacted Blake. Blake worked for his son-in-law. So it was one of those kind of mutual contacts we had. And he called Blake and he was like, “Hey, I heard you’ve been buying some rental properties,” you know, whatever. He’s like, “Would you be interested in one of ours?” So he said, “Yeah, absolutely.” So it was two duplexes, and they’re one block off of the main university street, so Donaghy Avenue in Conway. Like College of Business is right here by University of Central Arkansas, so it’s one block off of that. So it was like really good location, we already had a couple in that kind of area. So we know they rent good. Blake’s like, “Yeah, sure, we can look at them.” And we looked at them, and it was just like the numbers just didn’t quite work with what they were wanting. And their need to sell had — there were some health issues, and so we really didn’t want to be jerks and like talk them down a whole lot. Like we wanted to be able to have a win-win situation. We were at Lake Taneycomo for the weekend.
Blake Johnson: I had analysis paralysis like we all get for a minute. I was like, this can’t work with us putting $30,000 cash in, which I did not want to do at all.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah.
Blake Johnson: And so we were at in Branson, nice sit-down, I was like, “What if we sell a house? What if we just sell a house and use that as our profit to do the remodel?”
Zac Hendricks: Actually, one of our friends that I was talking about earlier that was giving us a ton of really good advice, he’s a lot further in the journey, so his numbers look a lot different than ours. He’s able to put a lot of money into properties. And so he has that fortune. So we just texted him, and we’re like, “Hey, we’re thinking about buying a couple duplexes. We really need to offload a property. Would you be interested in this one? We need to sell it for I think it was $125,000 or something like that.”
Blake Johnson: Yeah, $125,000, and we owed $90,000 on it.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, and we owed $90,000 at the time. So he goes, “Yeah, sure.” OK. I didn’t want to do this. He was like, “I mean, I trust you guys, so just write it up and I’ll look at it after we purchase it.”
Blake Johnson: So we’re sitting there with $35,000 in profit, and we didn’t want to pay taxes. And so we did something called a 1031 Exchange, which you just buy a like kind property at a higher value, and the government lets you offset those taxes just by rolling them into the property. So we rolled that money into these duplexes, and used that money as the rehab budget for the house. And so we turned like -$25 into almost $700 profit.
Nate Hedrick: Wow.
Blake Johnson: I guess a dud into a stud, if you could say.
David Bright: Oh my gosh.
Nate Hedrick: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s such a great example of how you took something that it wasn’t crippling you guys, but it wasn’t helping. And you totally turned that around into something that’s killing it. That’s awesome.
Zac Hendricks: I mean, we barely did anything to those duplexes. We did floors and paint and light fixtures.
Blake Johnson: I think across like four total units, we probably spent $20,000 or something like that.
Nate Hedrick: And got great cash flow at the end too.
Blake Johnson: Oh yeah, extreme cash flow. If you add back in the property management and all that, I mean, it’s made it themselves, pay them $1,300-1,400 a month.
Nate Hedrick: Well guys, I feel like I could listen to your stories all night, but I want to make sure we get to the final infusion questions here and wrap things up a bit. So we ask these same three questions of all of our guests, and we’re going to ask you guys tonight and see what we get. So the first one is what is one tangible strategy that you can use to make your investing work with your pharmacy career so it doesn’t distract you from your career in pharmacy? So I guess, Blake, this is a little more specific to you.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, it really affects my pharmacy career.
Blake Johnson: Zac…
Zac Hendricks: I really struggle to keep pharmacy on the front of my mind just because I’m just so focused on real estate.
Blake Johnson: Our partnership works out great, but I’ve got a few friends that are wanting to get into real estate, and I think the biggest thing before you start tackling properties as a pharmacist is define your goals. Are you going to inject cash into deals or you going to go where it’s turnkey? If it’s turnkey, then just hand it over to a property manager. So you need a property manager to just take that over and let them do it all for you. That becomes a passive property. If not, you need to have a contractor that you can trust and that property manager on the back end. I believe you can do most all property management after-hours. But most pharmacists have odd hours, you know, if you work for a chain, you might work in the morning sometimes, work in the evenings sometimes. So I think for most pharmacists, they’re going to be more of the property manager route, they might try to do it themselves. But most people probably need to be using a property manager. So I think the biggest thing is getting those set up, that way, No. 1, you can take care of your patients during the day. And we have a high-stress job, especially with COVID shots and the stress with the low reimbursements going on. So the last thing you need is to have to worry about anything like that during the day. Just No. 2, just making sure that you can take care of your employer No. 1. That’s the second most important thing.
David Bright: No, I love that. And I love that you guys talk about that value of the partnership and you spoke about the value of having a mentor in there too you can turn to for advice and just yeah, I think that’s huge. So without the mentor or the partner being the answer to this next one, what’s the one resource that has been the most helpful to you in your real estate journey? For both of y’all, whether that’s a book, a podcast, an author, a website.
Zac Hendricks: I would say the turning point in my investing career was Bigger Pockets. So I really have to give them a lot of credit. I think my wife and I were training for a half marathon back in 2015 or 2016, and we listened during the training, I think we listened to probably like 50 podcasts or something like that.
Nate Hedrick: That’s awesome.
Zac Hendricks: We would be pushing our 1-year-old in a stroller, running, with like radio blasting of Bigger Pockets. Like everybody we passed was like, what are y’all listening to? Everybody’s listening to rock music or listening to Brandon Turner on a podcast. So that was the biggest thing for me was whenever — listening to those first 100 podcasts, 150 podcasts or whatever, that’s whenever I learned, oh wow, like my strategy is so small. I mean, when I first started, I was 23 or 24 — 23 I guess — and my goal at that point was to have five properties by the time I turned 30. And so — and I just turned — I will turn 30 this year, and we have like, total we have about 35 properties. So it’s like my goals went from little bitty tiny goals to exponential goals whenever we found Bigger Pockets because like, there’s no way I would have found $20,000 every couple months to put down payments down. And that’s what Bigger Pockets was big on was teaching you kind of the strategy of how to do it. And then the forums obviously were very helpful. So that was a really big resource.
Blake Johnson: So we nerded out this past February. We went skiing in Colorado, and so that’s where Bigger Pockets headquarters are, so we had to make a little surprise trip over there. Got to meet Scott, which was pretty cool.
Nate Hedrick: That’s awesome.
Blake Johnson: That was fun. So Bigger Pockets for me was probably the same thing. All the books that they offer and just the guests and stuff that they have, really anything that you need to start and just get ahold of it. For us starting out and even still now, if there’s something we need to know, you can go on the forums and find it quickly. That was a huge resource and still is.
Zac Hendricks: Well, and we used to — you had gurus, you know, that were the high-end, they have huge apartment complexes and you can buy into them and all that. So that was kind of the only resource for a long time I guess. And so whenever you hear normal people on a podcast — I mean, just kind of like me and Blake, like you hear normal people that are investors and they’re killing it, and you’re like, ‘Oh dang, I could do that too.’ You know? So it’s a lot more approachable. I think — that’s probably part of the whole podcast reality that we live in now is like we can have these conversations, which is incredible, like YFP. Like we can have these conversations now and more pharmacists can go, ‘Oh, I want to be like Blake. I want to be like David.’ You know, you can actually relate to people a lot more instead of going, ‘That dude, he owns like $10 million in real estate. I could never be him.’ I don’t think that’s helpful.
Nate Hedrick: Yep, that’s big for us is finding something that is attainable, right? Not just talking to those people, like you said, that have $10 million portfolios and 100 units here and there. It’s like, that doesn’t feel like I know the next step, right? But if you talk to somebody who’s done it for three years and scaled up like this, that’s a great person to model after. That’s kind of exactly what we’re going for is that same feel. So then I guess we’ll wrap things up with our very last question, guys. What is one piece of advice you would give to a pharmacist or anyone — Zac, I don’t want to single you out here — but anyone contemplating a start in real estate investing?
Blake Johnson: Man, I would tell pharmacists, No. 1, have your debts paid down. You don’t need $100,000 in student loans trying to buy property.
Zac Hendricks: Dave Ramsey, cough, cough.
Blake Johnson: Dave Ramsey. Go for the Dave Ramsey — or Joe Baker’s book. He’s YFP’s. You’ve got to give Joe a plug.
Nate Hedrick: “Baker’s Dirty Dozen.”
Blake Johnson: It’ll lead you in to that that pharmacists have cash coming in. Your job creates lots of cash flow, so where most people are trying to sit down and figure out a budget and how to have that built-in savings and cash flow, a hot water heater or an A/C, they just — you’ve got that. So once you’ve got that done, just start doing it. That was my biggest thing was just trying to figure out all the what if’s. But most small things you can cash flow. Just get started, but have the debt paid down.
Zac Hendricks: I’ll add onto that. The only thing I remember from college, which is terrible, but the only thing I actually remember from college that I can actually like take away every day, I had this professor — I’ll shout him out: Dr. Bradley — he was this older guy, had a ton of business experience. He’d walk into class and he’d pick his pants up, and he was doing a small business class with us. And I was trying to start some weird business. I had a business plan that it wasn’t going to work. Anyways, he comes up to me and he’s like, “So what’s keeping you from doing it?” And I was like, “Well, I mean, my business plan kind of sucks.” You know, I had like a lot of excuses, the money, I just don’t know how I’m going to find the money, and all of this stuff. And he grits his teeth and he goes, “Listen, son, sometimes you just got to pull the trigger.” And I was like, dang. Like you’re right. I should. And that business didn’t go anywhere. But when I got started in real estate, you know, it was the same thing. It was like, you’ve just got to pull the trigger. You’ve just got to do it. And we have several friends that are about to start real estate investing, all that, and I’m like, “Look, you just do it. Just get started. If you can get one house, even if it’s” — I mean, I know this is probably the worst advice, but even if it’s not a great deal, you still have a property. You’re going to learn. So say you lose $100 a month, that’s $1,200 a year. Sounds like a pretty cheap education. And then you sell it in 5-10 years, you end up probably looking like a genius, unless you bought in Detroit in 2008. But most likely, it’s going to appreciate over time, you know? And so it’s OK. Don’t get bogged down in oh, I have to get this, I have to get this. Get a property. And then eventually it will kind of work itself out and you’ll learn and be able to replicate that and realize, this is what I did wrong. I’m not going to do that again. These are the deals I want to find. This is the banker I’m going to use. This is the contractor I’m going to use. And then you start getting a system figured out, and then you can actually start buying really good deals and creating a really good portfolio. But you have to get that one or else you’re just going to be floundering, being a wannabe real estate investor. And then you’re going to wake up and you’re 45 or 50 or 60 or 70 and you’re going to go, man, I wish I would have gotten in real estate and I never did. So I think that was probably the best thing that professor taught me.
Nate Hedrick: I love it. I think that’s super solid advice from both of you guys. You guys are obviously wealths of knowledge and I really appreciate you guys being on the show today. It’s just been — it’s been a great pleasure talking to both of you.
Blake Johnson: Hey, thank you.
Zac Hendricks: Thanks so much for having us on.
Blake Johnson: Yeah, thank you guys.
Zac Hendricks: Even if I am an impostor, not a pharmacist.
Nate Hedrick: Hey, that’s alright. Like I said, you’re the first non-pharmacist on the show, which is perfect. So — actually, well, Tim Baker, too.
Zac Hendricks: I’ll take it.
Nate Hedrick: You can compete with him for that. So yeah, so I guess we’ll just wrap things up, guys, with where can people find you if they want to reach out and hit you guys up?
Blake Johnson: My pharmacy email is easy to do, so [email protected]. I don’t have any social media, neither does Zac. So we’re boring people. So yeah, [email protected], and I’d be glad to answer any questions or connect with anybody in that way.
Zac Hendricks: Our website for our remodeling company is HendricksRemodel.com. So I can send you the link to that.
Nate Hedrick: Yep, we’ll put it in the show notes. That’s perfect. Guys, really seriously appreciate it. Again, I’m sure we’ll have you back at some point because you guys are just — you’re taking off, and we want to be along for the ride. So appreciate it.
Blake Johnson: We’d love to come back.
Zac Hendricks: Yeah, thanks so much.
Nate Hedrick: Alright, have a good one.
David Bright: Thanks so much, guys.
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